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Author Topic: Why do people knock Scientology so much?  (Read 2474 times)

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Offline poz4afewyears

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Why do people knock Scientology so much?
« on: April 12, 2009, 02:12:50 PM »
First off, I am an atheist (mostly). I have no interest in any particular faith over any other, but I do enjoy studying their histories and their texts.

I do not know much about the Church of Scientology other then people rag on it a lot. I have read some of their beliefs and I don't see how they are anymore bizarre then any other religion. I mean, Scientology is not nearly as bad as Mormonism. Mormonism is the most overtly made up bunch of bullshit I have ever come across. The fact that millions of people subscribe to that tripe is astounding. Atleast Scientology doesn't command the stoning to death of adulters or the hanging of homosexuals like the Hadith does in Islam.


Can anyone tell me why people rag on this Church so much? How is it any worse then any of the other completely made up religion?

Offline Ann

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Re: Why do people knock Scientology so much?
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2009, 03:17:02 PM »
So you don't think a cult created by a science-fiction writer is bizarre? You can't have read much about these guys. Here's a couple tasters - a video and an article.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD9bCdHqU3s

http://www.slate.com/id/2122835/
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Why do people knock Scientology so much?
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2009, 03:44:52 PM »
Disclaimer: I'm a humanist and I'm not an expert on Scientology.

My problem with Scientology has to do with it being so transparently designed to prey on people's insecurities and generate cash. Many of the other religious organizations take in money through tithing and such but to my understanding they were based on faith first and the money, and in some cases corruption, came later. Scientology appears to me to be designed specifically to generate income. I'm unaware of any major religions that withhold knowledge until you pay cash to learn the next lesson. The Mormon Church may have odd beliefs but they don't give you the book of Genesis free and then make you pay $1000 to read Exodus. The fact the belief system was created by a science fiction author and reads like a science fiction novel is suspect. It also doesn't help that the Church of Scientology is secretive, defensive and litigious. Honestly it strikes me as the Amway of religions.

Offline J.R.E.

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Re: Why do people knock Scientology so much?
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2009, 03:58:55 PM »


Because of this :

http://www.lisamcpherson.org/

Don't forget to look at the autopsy photos.


Ray
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
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http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


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Offline blondbeauty

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Re: Why do people knock Scientology so much?
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2009, 08:47:18 PM »
If anybody can believe in that I should create a more reasonable religion and become rich.
In the following links you can see the new building os scientology in Madrid (Spain) they started with a small apartment...
Links:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/35/Iglesia_Cienciolog%C3%ADa_Madrid.jpg/450px-Iglesia_Cienciolog%C3%ADa_Madrid.jpg

http://blogs.21rs.es/trastevere/files/2008/08/cienciologia-en-madrid.jpg

http://www.elperiodicodearagon.com/img/noticias/441806_2.jpg
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Offline poz4afewyears

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Re: Why do people knock Scientology so much?
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2009, 11:06:38 AM »
Oh no, Ann, I did not say I did not think they were bizarre. I said I didn't think they were any more bizarre then any other religion.

Thanks guys, I didn't know this stuff about them.

Offline David_CA

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Re: Why do people knock Scientology so much?
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2009, 11:29:07 AM »
 Here's a bit more about the Church, its founder, and his son.
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You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Ann

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Re: Why do people knock Scientology so much?
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2009, 11:42:19 AM »

Oh no, Ann, I did not say I did not think they were bizarre. I said I didn't think they were any more bizarre then any other religion.


Ah, sorry. I must admit you've got a point there. ;D I mean, it's not really blood, silly, it's wine.  And that bread? It's not anyone's body, it's flour, yeast and water, and maybe a few other ingredients, but nope, no flesh. :o I could go on but I've been on my anti-organised-religion soap-box quite a bit lately, so I'll just shut :-X up. For now. ;)
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline poz4afewyears

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Re: Why do people knock Scientology so much?
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2009, 02:04:30 PM »
Yeah, what about the bullshit about Joseph Smith being a prophet? Or that the Book Of Moron is a historical document. I used to be apart of that cult.  :-\ Yes, sad to say. I just had to keep telling myself that native american people were descended from Jews no matter how much evidence flew in the face of it.
The strange thing about Scientology is that the man was a science fiction writer. I still can not ascertain whether or not Scientologists think that L. Ron Hubbard was a prophet or what. I am kind of confused on that point.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2009, 02:07:46 PM by poz4afewyears »

Offline David_CA

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Re: Why do people knock Scientology so much?
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2009, 03:28:36 PM »
Come on now, the blood and wine reference is symbolism. 

I think what gives Mormons and Scientologists such bad press is that they are considered cults (a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader*).  I'm sure that Christianity was considered a cult back in the day, too.  I do know that my ex wife was raised Mormon, and that she and I were not welcome to be married in the Temple without my converting, among other things... as if!  I don't think that too many of the mainstream religions, such as the Methodist and Presbyterian, would have much of a problem with folks occasionally attending services in their churches.  Try that in a cult!



* from  dictionary.com
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11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
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You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Ann

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Re: Why do people knock Scientology so much?
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2009, 04:28:22 PM »

Come on now, the blood and wine reference is symbolism. 


Ha. Wrong, if you're Catholic or Eastern Orthodox. It's the Eucharist,, you see.

Quote

...the Council of Trent issued an authoritative teaching on this change of the substance of the bread and wine at the consecration of the Mass.

      "Because Christ our Redeemer declared that what He offered under the species of bread was truly His Body, it has always been the faith of the Church of God (and this holy Synod now states it again) that by the consecration of the bread and wine a change takes place in which the entire substance of the bread is changed into the substance of the Body of Christ our Lord, and the entire substance of the wine into the substance of His Blood. This change the Holy Catholic Church fittingly and properly calls "transubstantiation"


source

Strange indeed, eh?
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline David_CA

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Re: Why do people knock Scientology so much?
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2009, 04:56:39 PM »
Ha. Wrong, if you're Catholic or Eastern Orthodox. It's the Eucharist,, you see.

source

Strange indeed, eh?


Indeed.  From the link above "...In particular, Methodists reject the Roman Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation (see "Article XVIII" of the Articles of Religion, Means of Grace)."  I haven't had much personal experience with the Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox churches (I was brought up Methodist).
Black Friday 03-03-2006
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06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Ann

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Re: Why do people knock Scientology so much?
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2009, 05:06:01 PM »
I was brought up (United) Methodist as well, but we lived in a predominately Catholic neighbourhood and many of my neighbours went to the local Catholic elementary. I remember them all freaking out when they learned about transubstantiation in Catechism classes.

They were all like; Eeeeewwwww YUCK!  :D
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline fearless

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Re: Why do people knock Scientology so much?
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2009, 12:02:48 AM »
I do know that my ex wife was raised Mormon, and that she and I were not welcome to be married in the Temple without my converting, among other things... as if!  * from  dictionary.com

It wasn't that long ago that (ie the last 20 or so years) that the Catholic Church insisted on the non-Catholic converting before being allowed to marry in the Church. I understand that they are a little more lenient these days but they may still 'insist' that any children are brought up Catholic before allowing you to marry in the Church.

My dad was forced to convert way back when, and my brother in-law similarly forced about 25 years ago.

And, Ann is right. The Catholic and Orthodox churches really do believe that the bread and wine are converted into the body and blood. Strange but true
Be forgiving, be grateful, be optimistic

Offline Ann

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Re: Why do people knock Scientology so much?
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2009, 06:13:38 AM »
One of the things that really freaks me out about the LDS (Mormons) is their habit of performing baptism for the dead by proxy.

It wouldn't bother me in the least if they did this to me when I was dead (because I don't believe in all that malarkey anyway) but it really, really upsets a lot of people, and rightly so, if you believe that what they're doing is actually having an effect on your soul.

I mean internet by proxy, sure. Religious rites by proxy - when the person's already dead?  You just can't make this stuff up.

Ooops, sorry, somebody did!

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline bear60

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Re: Why do people knock Scientology so much?
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2009, 08:17:26 AM »
As I understand it, this baptism by proxy on the dead is really a BIG issue with Jews because their dead relatives are being baptised by the Mormons.
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Offline Ann

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Re: Why do people knock Scientology so much?
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2009, 08:36:11 AM »
That's right Joel, they've been baptising Holocaust victims. Unbelievable. Wonder if they've moved on to the AIDS Holocaust victims yet?
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Why do people knock Scientology so much?
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2009, 09:26:38 AM »
One of the things that really freaks me out about the LDS (Mormons) is their habit of performing baptism for the dead by proxy.

It wouldn't bother me in the least if they did this to me when I was dead (because I don't believe in all that malarkey anyway) but it really, really upsets a lot of people, and rightly so, if you believe that what they're doing is actually having an effect on your soul.

I mean internet by proxy, sure. Religious rites by proxy - when the person's already dead?  You just can't make this stuff up.

Ooops, sorry, somebody did!


No body in their right mind would try to baptize you Ann. You can swim and you would drown them. You know the myth of why fish smell the way they do? ;)

Offline Ann

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Re: Why do people knock Scientology so much?
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2009, 09:44:42 AM »
No body in their right mind would try to baptize you Ann. You can swim and you would drown them. You know the myth of why fish smell the way they do? ;)

Hmph. I was baptised when I was a kid (not a baby) - but as far as I'm concerned, I took part in a cultural, not spiritual, rite of passage. I consider myself to be a cultural Christian, because that is the culture I grew up in. However, I'm not a spiritual or practicing Christian. I simply consider myself a spiritual person, and I dont' try to label it any further than that. You know, the unspeakable name and all that. ;)

But I digress - what's this about a fish? Nevermind, not sure I really want to know.

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Why do people knock Scientology so much?
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2009, 10:26:30 AM »
Hmph. I was baptised when I was a kid (not a baby) - but as far as I'm concerned, I took part in a cultural, not spiritual, rite of passage. I consider myself to be a cultural Christian, because that is the culture I grew up in. However, I'm not a spiritual or practicing Christian. I simply consider myself a spiritual person, and I dont' try to label it any further than that. You know, the unspeakable name and all that. ;)

But I digress - what's this about a fish? Nevermind, not sure I really want to know.


ROFL, you don't.  :D

Offline Merlin

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Re: Why do people knock Scientology so much?
« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2009, 10:43:13 AM »
And let's not forget Scientology is ANTI-Gay. That should be enough reason why to keep knocking.  8)


http://sydney.indymedia.org.au/story/scientology-homophobic

http://www.queerty.com/scientologys-anti-gay-push-thwarted-at-toronto-pride-20080710/


And FREE (big taboo) level OT3 SECRETS to Scientology, courtesy of the almighty SouthParK  :-*

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« Last Edit: April 15, 2009, 11:02:34 AM by Merlin »
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