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Author Topic: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice  (Read 7625 times)

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Offline newbie76

  • Member
  • Posts: 238
BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« on: April 10, 2009, 06:08:49 AM »
I have met this guy off the Internet and he wanted only to have oral sex with me.

Our status was never discussed although it is not mentioned on my profile and "negative" in his profile.

After some time it was clear he wanted to have anal sex. I reached for a condom but he said "just put the head in first" and before I knew it we fucked without a condom.
I did not come inside him and I have been undetectable for 2 years.

Now I am sort of panicking and don't know what to do. Provided he really is negative, If I call him and tell him to get PEP I risk him prosecuting me: he came at my place and therefore knows where I live.

If I don't tell him anything he might have gotten infected from me. Despite the fact that it would kill me, he might also try and prosecute me later.

I thought of texting him and tell him to get PEP as I am unaware of my status but this would be lying and would also live a written track of it.

Today here is national holiday which also makes things a bit more difficult as he told me he had plans to spend the day with his family.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
25th Apr 07: The worst day of my life
27th Apr 07: cd4 202 14%
30th Apr 07: cd4 126 18% VL 110000
19th May 07: Started Truvada/Sustiva
20th Jun 07: cd4 218 25% VL 435
13th Aug 07: cd4 374 20% VL 64
20th Dec 07: cd4 435 24% VL <50
20th Oct 08: cd4 725 31% VL <50
30th Nov 09: cd4 725 30% VL <50
01st Nov 10: cd4 755 33% VL<50
11th Nov 11: cd4 754 32% VL<50
01st May 12: cd4 864 40% VL<50
01st May 13: cd4 615 VL 609 :-/
14th May 13: VL <50

Offline BlueMoon

  • Member
  • Posts: 665
  • Calling from the Fun House
Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2009, 07:07:35 AM »
It sounds like the guy was kind of complicit in what happened, but that doesn't absolve you of responsibility.  Maybe you can anonymously contact a third party such as an ASO and have them contact the guy.  I wouldn't give them any more details beyond that he may have been inadvertently exposed.  I don't know much about PEP but imagine that it has to be initiated within a day or two of exposure in order to be effective.

I internet-cruise also and have found that stating my HIV status in my profile has not affected interest.  If anything, it's improved.  There's a whole world of hot poz guys looking to play, far more than I'll ever have time to meet.

In addition, by hooking up with only other poz guys, there's no chance of getting carried away and crossing that murky line between generally safe, and decidedly unsafe.  That makes for better sex.
...................VL.....CD4.....%
-----------------------------------------
08/10-- ......<40.....290.....42
05/10-- ......<48.....290.....46
02/10-- ......<48.....481.....44
10/09-- ......<48.....277.....46
07/09-- ......<48.....300.....38
05/09-- ........51.....449.....39
03/09-- Added Isentress
02/09-- ........65.....299.....34
11/08-- ........62.....242.....40
08/08-- ........66.....212.....29
05/08-- ......202.....217.....27
03/08-- ....5210.....187.....21
02/08-- Began Truvada/Reyataz/Norvir
12/07-- 273,000.....157.....22
11/07-- 229,000.....209.....22
10/07-- Diagnosis

It's a complex world.

Offline newbie76

  • Member
  • Posts: 238
Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2009, 07:17:05 AM »
Thank you for your reply.

Contacting a 3rd party to notify him, would have 2 problems:

1) He might not have had risky sex with anybody else for a while before me so how long would it take him to make 2+2 and realise it's me he had risky sex with?

2) Because of the Easter period, I don't think anyone would be available to notify him before next Tuesday when it would obviously be far too late for PEP, which has to start within 72 hours from the risky behaviour.

I understand what you say about havin your status on your profile, but I like to have my face pics on it as I think I am quite goodlooking and putting "HIV +" next to it wouldn't really be for me...

I have found that most people that put "ask me" or "No answer" next to their status, are in fact poz, so that is the route I have decided to take.

I thought of calling him to tell him that because I haven't tested for a long time, perhaps he should consider PEP as I don't want to have any problem, then again if he doesn't go and get it and one day he discover he has become poz, he might think of me as the responsible, and then it would eventually emerge that me not having tested for a long time, was in fact a lie, which would jeopardise my position even more...
25th Apr 07: The worst day of my life
27th Apr 07: cd4 202 14%
30th Apr 07: cd4 126 18% VL 110000
19th May 07: Started Truvada/Sustiva
20th Jun 07: cd4 218 25% VL 435
13th Aug 07: cd4 374 20% VL 64
20th Dec 07: cd4 435 24% VL <50
20th Oct 08: cd4 725 31% VL <50
30th Nov 09: cd4 725 30% VL <50
01st Nov 10: cd4 755 33% VL<50
11th Nov 11: cd4 754 32% VL<50
01st May 12: cd4 864 40% VL<50
01st May 13: cd4 615 VL 609 :-/
14th May 13: VL <50

Offline BlueMoon

  • Member
  • Posts: 665
  • Calling from the Fun House
Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2009, 07:30:52 AM »
It's a dilemma.  Regardless of how you go about it the finger will point straight to you. 

I'd say that the potential good of notification outweighs the potential bad.  And like you said, he might not really be negative, whether he knows it or not.  Especially if he habitually barebacks with guys of unknown HIV status. 
...................VL.....CD4.....%
-----------------------------------------
08/10-- ......<40.....290.....42
05/10-- ......<48.....290.....46
02/10-- ......<48.....481.....44
10/09-- ......<48.....277.....46
07/09-- ......<48.....300.....38
05/09-- ........51.....449.....39
03/09-- Added Isentress
02/09-- ........65.....299.....34
11/08-- ........62.....242.....40
08/08-- ........66.....212.....29
05/08-- ......202.....217.....27
03/08-- ....5210.....187.....21
02/08-- Began Truvada/Reyataz/Norvir
12/07-- 273,000.....157.....22
11/07-- 229,000.....209.....22
10/07-- Diagnosis

It's a complex world.

Offline Ann

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  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2009, 07:32:02 AM »
If this guy is willingly bareback bottoming with guys he just met off the internet - ones who don't even list their hiv status - I doubt very, very much that he needs PEP. It's very likely to already be too late for him. (in other words, just to be clear, he's most likely already hiv positive)

While I was writing (I tried to post and discovered you'd posted first), you said, 'I have found that most people that put "ask me" or "No answer" next to their status, are in fact poz, so that is the route I have decided to take.' That is exactly what I meant above when I said "ones who don't even list their hiv status". From what I understand, it's more less common knowledge that people who don't list their status know for sure they're poz.

And besides, you're been undetectable for two years and you didn't cum inside him - that puts what happened on a lower end of the risk scale. (but not completely no risk)

If you alert him and he hasn't been testing regularly, he might not know his hiv status. If he tests as a result of your prompting and tests positive, it could be you or any of the other guys online he hooks up with. Do you really want to risk your personal safety when all things done and said, it's unlikely to be you?

Seriously? I think I'd put this one down to experience. Although you are responsible for your actions in not insisting on using a condom, he's also responsible for his actions in insisting you start without a condom - and how could he not know full well what would happen if you did that? He's a grown adult and made his decision regarding how to have sex with you.

As I said, learn from this experience and DON'T LET IT HAPPEN AGAIN!

Disclaimer: I'm not saying what you did was right. I'm not saying I condone barebacking with someone of unknown hiv status. (forget what people put in their dating site profiles - people lie, people don't accurately know their status) I'm just saying put this down to experience and don't let it happen again.

There also might be a third option - talk to someone at your hiv clinic or local ASO to find out if you can anonymously alert this guy (for testing purposes) via the department of health, without incriminating yourself. If this guy is already poz - which is likely - and he doesn't know, he may be out there blithely infecting others.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline newbie76

  • Member
  • Posts: 238
Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2009, 07:39:06 AM »
OK I sent him a casual text message just now saying "Hi, I had a great time last night. I know you are with your family today but if you can give me a call some time today to let me know how you are".

If and when he does I'll bring up the subject of making the mistake of doing bb and try to find out a bit more about his sexual habits and status perhaps, and will probably tell him that because I haven't tested for a very long time it is probably best for him to go and get PEP.

From what he told me yeserday, I have a feeling he is negative though....
25th Apr 07: The worst day of my life
27th Apr 07: cd4 202 14%
30th Apr 07: cd4 126 18% VL 110000
19th May 07: Started Truvada/Sustiva
20th Jun 07: cd4 218 25% VL 435
13th Aug 07: cd4 374 20% VL 64
20th Dec 07: cd4 435 24% VL <50
20th Oct 08: cd4 725 31% VL <50
30th Nov 09: cd4 725 30% VL <50
01st Nov 10: cd4 755 33% VL<50
11th Nov 11: cd4 754 32% VL<50
01st May 12: cd4 864 40% VL<50
01st May 13: cd4 615 VL 609 :-/
14th May 13: VL <50

Offline newbie76

  • Member
  • Posts: 238
Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2009, 07:46:57 AM »
Thank you Ann. I don't know why, but I always like your answers who are straightforward and very insightful.

Perhaps I am too naive, but he did give me the impression of being negative because of the fact that he only put "looking for oral" on his pofile and also when we met he made it clear he didn't want to have anal sex, which was fine with me.

The thing is that he stayed here for a long time, about 7 hours, during which we talked, had oral sex, ate, watched telly, etc. and in the end anal sex just happened, but I think he normally does not do it if he goes to someone's house for a quick shag.

I had the impression that he didn't insist on using a condom more for ignorance or naiveity than for conscioulsy taking a calculated risk, if you know what I mean.

He is in his mid 20s though so as you say, an adult who should be able to make his own decisions.

I did reach for the condom and even though we ended up not using it, it has remained half opened right next to us and he could have stopped at any moment and asked me to wear it, although I understand I am to blame as much as he is, if not more, knowing that I am poz.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2009, 07:49:11 AM by newbie76 »
25th Apr 07: The worst day of my life
27th Apr 07: cd4 202 14%
30th Apr 07: cd4 126 18% VL 110000
19th May 07: Started Truvada/Sustiva
20th Jun 07: cd4 218 25% VL 435
13th Aug 07: cd4 374 20% VL 64
20th Dec 07: cd4 435 24% VL <50
20th Oct 08: cd4 725 31% VL <50
30th Nov 09: cd4 725 30% VL <50
01st Nov 10: cd4 755 33% VL<50
11th Nov 11: cd4 754 32% VL<50
01st May 12: cd4 864 40% VL<50
01st May 13: cd4 615 VL 609 :-/
14th May 13: VL <50

Offline Ann

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  • Member
  • Posts: 28,140
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2009, 07:55:58 AM »
He might think  he's negative, but if he is in the habit of saying "just put the head in" (sans condom) he probably isn't. That's how this virus continues to spread unabated - too many only think  they're negative.

Good luck. Kudos for you for wanting to own up to your share of the responsibility in this instance. And by the way, before he's given PEP, they will do a rapid test (baseline testing), to find out if he's already poz. Just FYI.

Once again, you beat me to the punch and posted ahead of me. :D

To my mind, the fact that he puts "only oral" in his profile is another indication that he could well be poz - because oral is more a theoretical risk. Of course it could work both ways, but looking at the evidence... he went for a guy who doesn't list his status, he asked that guy to "just put the head in"... you could well be dealing with a guy who doesn't even like to disclose to other pozzies. I know a few people like that.

Maybe he is just naive. I certainly don't envy you being in this position. Good luck, let us know what happens next.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline BlueMoon

  • Member
  • Posts: 665
  • Calling from the Fun House
Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2009, 07:59:37 AM »
Funny thing, I just logged onto Manhunt to find this message from a guy whose profile states "negative" --

Quote
how are you doing tonight
poz here too

I'm not even answering that one.   ::)
...................VL.....CD4.....%
-----------------------------------------
08/10-- ......<40.....290.....42
05/10-- ......<48.....290.....46
02/10-- ......<48.....481.....44
10/09-- ......<48.....277.....46
07/09-- ......<48.....300.....38
05/09-- ........51.....449.....39
03/09-- Added Isentress
02/09-- ........65.....299.....34
11/08-- ........62.....242.....40
08/08-- ........66.....212.....29
05/08-- ......202.....217.....27
03/08-- ....5210.....187.....21
02/08-- Began Truvada/Reyataz/Norvir
12/07-- 273,000.....157.....22
11/07-- 229,000.....209.....22
10/07-- Diagnosis

It's a complex world.

Offline newbie76

  • Member
  • Posts: 238
Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2009, 08:01:46 AM »
Sorry Ann, one more thing. You say:

If you alert him and he hasn't been testing regularly, he might not know his hiv status. If he tests as a result of your prompting and tests positive, it could be you or any of the other guys online he hooks up with. Do you really want to risk your personal safety when all things done and said, it's unlikely to be you?

If say he goes today or tomorrow to have his PEP and they test him and he shows up as poz, surely he cannot blame me, as it takes 3 months for the virus to show up in a test, am I right??
25th Apr 07: The worst day of my life
27th Apr 07: cd4 202 14%
30th Apr 07: cd4 126 18% VL 110000
19th May 07: Started Truvada/Sustiva
20th Jun 07: cd4 218 25% VL 435
13th Aug 07: cd4 374 20% VL 64
20th Dec 07: cd4 435 24% VL <50
20th Oct 08: cd4 725 31% VL <50
30th Nov 09: cd4 725 30% VL <50
01st Nov 10: cd4 755 33% VL<50
11th Nov 11: cd4 754 32% VL<50
01st May 12: cd4 864 40% VL<50
01st May 13: cd4 615 VL 609 :-/
14th May 13: VL <50

Offline GSOgymrat

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  • Posts: 5,009
  • HIV+ since 1993. INTJ
Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2009, 08:08:13 AM »
I'm not going to tell you what to do but if he tells you he is negative I would assume he is telling the truth. He may not even know his status but you can't say he is already HIV+ just because he agreed to have sex without a condom with you. Some people can be very naive and may not think someone is poz just because they didn't answer that question in an online profile. Also I think most of us who are old enough know people who had unsafe sex for years and somehow never became infected.

Offline Ann

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  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2009, 08:10:12 AM »

If say he goes today or tomorrow to have his PEP and they test him and he shows up as poz, surely he cannot blame me, as it takes 3 months for the virus to show up in a test, am I right??


You're mostly right. You're right in saying it couldn't be you if he tests positive on his PEP baseline test, but it normally only takes between three and six weeks for the antibody test to show an infection. The three month window exists to catch the rare person who takes more than six weeks to seroconvert and test postiive.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline John2038

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  • Happiness is a journey, not a destination.
    • HIV Research News (Twitter)
Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2009, 08:27:40 AM »
Hi

this is just how I would have react, everybody is different.

Contact him and let him knows if he have carefully read my profile, especially HIV+.
Offer him to get a PEP, could it be using my own pills waiting to see the ID doc.

Next time, I would disclose any time it is needed (before the risk).

You are undetectable, and that is a good thing in term of infectiousness (unlikely).
But anal sex are more risky, despite undetectable, as undetectable in the blood doesn't means undetectable everywhere.

Just know that if he should be/become HIV+, he might still think you have infected him.
The PEP can be taken up to 72h, the earlier the better.

So I won't have waste time contacting him. And if he don't want to come, then he have to go immediately to the emergency at the hospital to get his PEP (just let him know which meds you are having now).
After that, it is his choice, as it has been to get unprotected sexual intercourse.

I am sure that when you will have more time to analys the situation, you will find that having notified him will have be the best choice. Don't forget that for the time being, HIV is a life disease.
So better some embarrassement at the begining but saving the life of someone, thanstaying silent and making the situation worse.

He might also be already HIV+ from someone else.
So he will have to do a test now in order to rule out that you are the cause of his infection.

Wishes you the best what ever your choice is.

John
« Last Edit: April 11, 2009, 08:39:22 AM by John2038 »

Offline Ann

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    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2009, 09:07:55 AM »

Contact him and let him knows if he have carefully read my profile, especially HIV+.
Offer him to get a PEP, could it be using my own pills waiting to see the ID doc.


NO!

For a start, Newbie told us that he does not list his hiv status one way or the other in his profile.

If you give a person of unknown hiv status your ARVs for PEP, you risk giving a person with a pre-existing hiv infection meds that could cause resistance issues for that individual. This is one of the reasons they give baseline testing before prescribing PEP. I can't believe you recommended this course of action. It's dangerous!


So better some embarrassement at the begining but saving the life of someone, thanstaying silent and making the situation worse.


I hardly think Newbie is worried about embarrassment. The guy knows where Newbie lives and he is worried for his personal safety, and he's also worried about being prosecuted. Did you read his posts, or merely skim them?

Ann
« Last Edit: April 10, 2009, 09:10:47 AM by Ann »
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline John2038

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  • Happiness is a journey, not a destination.
    • HIV Research News (Twitter)
Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2009, 09:52:52 AM »
NO!

For a start, Newbie told us that he does not list his hiv status one way or the other in his profile.

If you give a person of unknown hiv status your ARVs for PEP, you risk giving a person with a pre-existing hiv infection meds that could cause resistance issues for that individual. This is one of the reasons they give baseline testing before prescribing PEP. I can't believe you recommended this course of action. It's dangerous!

I hardly think Newbie is worried about embarrassment. The guy knows where Newbie lives and he is worried for his personal safety, and he's also worried about being prosecuted. Did you read his posts, or merely skim them?

Ann


I might be wrong, sorry for that. Thanks to have rectify me.

Now I won't try to be right, but I will provide some points, such as how PEP is prescribed in Europe (I guess 99% of the time):

People go to the emergency unit at the hospital where they get prescribed a PEP accordingly to a recommended list of PEP.

In most case, the only question asked is : what was your risk.
No blood draw, HIV test or whatever else.

The PEP is prescribed for 3 days. Within this 3 days, the one who have been exposed have to see an ID Doc who will decide if the PEP should be or not continued, changed.
If blood draw are usually ordered, it is at this time.

Most probably, this approach should be changed, but this is how things work in practice.

Understand that even if the HIV test was made before prescribing the drug, there are still 3 remaining problems:

1) If the exposed person have been recently infected, his/her test will return negative, despite he/she may have been recently infected by a resistant strain. But such case (infection with resistances happen in around 10% of the new infections, so not the majority).

2) How to get the resistance of someone presumably infected ? Genotype ? How long time to get it ? Months ?

3) The fastest the PEP is taken, the greater are supposed to be the chances for the PEP to work.

Outside these considerations, numerous others test should be done no to ensure that the prescribed drugs are not harmful for the host (eg liver functions, GFR, etc). This is where your point would make the more sens. But does it happen in the reality ? Or just questions about health history, if any.

All this should be done for sure. But I can assure you that this is not the case in practice.


Finally, I can talk about my personal experience.
Most of people considering taking a PEP just let the time go, until it is too late to get it prescribed (in France, the PEP is prescribed up to 48h after the exposure).

But nevermind. Ann, you might be right, and I apologize if I may have provide dangerous idea. Sincerly.


Note:
About the fact that Newbie is worried for his personal safety, what will happen if his partner get infected and suspect Newbie to be the one responsible of his infection ? Will Newbie be more safe ?


John
« Last Edit: April 10, 2009, 10:33:58 AM by John2038 »

Offline keyite

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Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2009, 10:48:58 AM »
Some people can be very naive and may not think someone is poz just because they didn't answer that question in an online profile.

Yes, I have tried this strategy - leaving the 'safer sex' field blank on my Gaydar profile - and found there's quite a few neg guys who don't join up the dots. Even amongst gay men in a big city like London. I remember one guy who said he left the field blank on his own profile because he liked sometimes to swallow and so didn't feel he could answer 'always' - and when I probed further he said he expected poz guys to disclose. Naive, yes, but there you go..

It became pretty clear to me that this strategy, i.e. relying on assumptions, just doesn't work reliably and I've dropped it.

Offline newbie76

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Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2009, 02:15:35 PM »
Well, he called me this afternoon but I was out shopping. I had prepared all my talk in my head but when I have heard his voice I froze. In any case I was out so not really the ideal place to start talking about bb, PEP, hiv, etc....!

I told him I'd call him back once I got home and I did that but the phone just rang... This was 3 hours ago and he hasn't called back since.

I know I should call him to take this weight off my conscience but it's really not easy...  :(
25th Apr 07: The worst day of my life
27th Apr 07: cd4 202 14%
30th Apr 07: cd4 126 18% VL 110000
19th May 07: Started Truvada/Sustiva
20th Jun 07: cd4 218 25% VL 435
13th Aug 07: cd4 374 20% VL 64
20th Dec 07: cd4 435 24% VL <50
20th Oct 08: cd4 725 31% VL <50
30th Nov 09: cd4 725 30% VL <50
01st Nov 10: cd4 755 33% VL<50
11th Nov 11: cd4 754 32% VL<50
01st May 12: cd4 864 40% VL<50
01st May 13: cd4 615 VL 609 :-/
14th May 13: VL <50

Offline John2038

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Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2009, 02:29:21 PM »
How about sending him a SMS ?
The clock is ticking. Sorry to say so. You are planing to tell him, and it's the first step.

John

Offline Cliff

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Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2009, 02:45:39 PM »
I don't think a text message is appropriate.

newbie- Good luck with whatever you end up doing.  I know this is a difficult issue and there aren't any easy (or straight) answers.  He's been exposed and so it feels right to tell him.  But you also have to weigh that up against potential legal issues and also where his head was when he decided to have unprotected sex (does that suggest his status or not).  It sounds like in terms of risk it wasn't so bad (your undetectable viral load), nor did you complete the act (inside); so hopefully that will give you and him some comfort.

Offline clsoca

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Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2009, 07:13:09 PM »
Assume some personal responsibility. Tell him as soon as possibly.

Also, make full disclosure on any and all web sites. This is exactly how this disease is being spread. The lack of routine testing and disclosure is exactly how most of us scummed to HIV.
10/07 Infected
11/07 Seroconversion
07/08 Tested Poz
07/08 VL 487  CD4 658  (No Meds)
10/08 VL 286  CD4 724  (No Meds)
01/24/09 VL 30,100   CD4 329 CD4 30% (No Meds)
02/06/09 VL 44,000   CD4 367 CD4 36%  Blood Work @ UCLA (No Meds)
02/06/09 VL 44,000   CD4 317 CD4 35% Blood Work @ USC (No Meds)
02/12/09 VL 52,000   CD4 297 CD4 29%
02/12/09  Started Atripla
04/01/09 VL 60  CD4 667   CD4 48%
06-05-09  VL UD CD4 427   CD4 39%

Offline Dachshund

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Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2009, 08:06:30 AM »
Assume some personal responsibility. Tell him as soon as possibly.

Also, make full disclosure on any and all web sites. This is exactly how this disease is being spread. The lack of routine testing and disclosure is exactly how most of us scummed to HIV.

Pot calling kettle. Sorry, but the reason the disease is being spread is people aren't practicing safe sex. It doesn't matter about testing or disclosure or web sites if you ain't wearing a glove before you put a pee pee in your pooper. Staring at an opened condom pack on the dresser ain't safe sex. Excuses around here have become the norm.

Offline dtwpuck

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Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2009, 09:47:45 AM »
I am thinking that I agree with Doxie...
I am sorry you are facing such a dilemma.  Perhaps next time you will realize that not disclosing your status results in a lot of anxiety, rather than a quick fun hookup.   The other guy does, indeed, have as much responsibility as you.  All this "it's the poz person's job " poppycock just gets on my nerves.  It's everyone's responsibility to take the health of yourself and others seriously.

Oh, and, sorry, but a posting for 'oral only' doesn't absolve someone from disclosure.  It sucks being poz.   One of those sucky things is that you just need to learn to take it on the chin when you get rejected because some stranger doesn't want to have sex with you because you are poz. 

Talk about it here.  Talk about it among your friends.  But when it comes down to it, the right thing to do with any sex partner is to disclose.  Regardless of how stupid or meaningless anonymous hookups are, there is still a human being on the other side of your hookup.

And, if someone decides to have unptrotected sex with you AFTER they know you're poz... it's their adult choice.  But, do give them the right to make that choice.  (yes, it does happen, a lot more than most of us want to admit).

I don't have any advice on how to tell your other guy.  I've been in your shoes.  It isn't fun.  But I'm certain that your angst here indicates that you will do what's right for the situation.

Scott
Floating through the void in the caress of two giant pink lobsters named Esmerelda and Keith.

Offline clsoca

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Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2009, 03:18:23 PM »
Condoms are are not 100% safe.

Disclosure and routine testing along with condom use are basic musts.
10/07 Infected
11/07 Seroconversion
07/08 Tested Poz
07/08 VL 487  CD4 658  (No Meds)
10/08 VL 286  CD4 724  (No Meds)
01/24/09 VL 30,100   CD4 329 CD4 30% (No Meds)
02/06/09 VL 44,000   CD4 367 CD4 36%  Blood Work @ UCLA (No Meds)
02/06/09 VL 44,000   CD4 317 CD4 35% Blood Work @ USC (No Meds)
02/12/09 VL 52,000   CD4 297 CD4 29%
02/12/09  Started Atripla
04/01/09 VL 60  CD4 667   CD4 48%
06-05-09  VL UD CD4 427   CD4 39%

Offline Dachshund

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Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2009, 08:32:33 PM »
Condoms are are not 100% safe.

Disclosure and routine testing along with condom use are basic musts.

Nope, just the condoms.

Offline blondbeauty

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Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2009, 09:29:10 PM »
I agree with Ann and Dachshund. There is another posibility. Maybe he could have infected you if you were HIV-. If he barebacks with anybody he might have been infecting other people. Is he going to call them?
Or maybe he has passed you another STD or a new strain of HIV. Why are you feeling so guilty? Is he feeling guilty about the STD´s he might have passed you?
If he barebaked with you he probably does it with anybody else. If he is not HIV+ by now he will probably be very soon.
You are not his mother.
The only member in these forums approved by WINBA: World International Nail and Beauty Association.
Epstein Barr +; CMV +; Toxoplasmosis +; HIV-1 +.
Counts when starting treatment:
V.L.:80.200 copies. CD4: 25%=503
Started Sustiva-Truvada 14/August/2006
Last V.L.count (Oct 2013): Undetectable
Last CD4 count (OCT 2013): 52%= 933

Offline decayingsinner

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Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2009, 11:42:56 PM »
I have been in the same situation and had to deal with this when I was first diagnosed. It was stressful.  Honestly, do you know the sexual practices this guy participates in? For myself, hate to say, but sort of had an invincible mentality going on. 

Offline YaKaMein

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Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2009, 04:15:07 AM »
For clarity, starting nPEP would involve exposure from either a known or unknown HIV-infected

http://www.hivandhepatitis.com/recent/guidelines/012105_a.html

... nPEP is the use of antiretroviral drugs immediately after a non-occupational exposure to HIV – either from sexual intercourse, sexual assault, injection drug use, bite wounds or accidents (e.g., unintentional needle sticks) – to prevent infection from taking hold in the body.  A combination of three antiretroviral drugs is started within 72 hours of exposure and is taken daily for 28 days...

09/11 Endocrine Consult
08/11 CD4 328 14.9% VL 0
 Disc'd Bactrim DEXA -3.1 Tscore
03/11 CD4 338 14.7% VL 0
11/10 CD4 300 14.3% VL 0 <20copies
07/10 CD4 336 14.0% VL 0 DEXA -2.7 Tscore
03/10 CD4 308 13.4% VL 0 Vit D normal
01/10 Began FOTO
11/09 CD4 274 13.7% VL 0 Chol 173 Trig 131
07/09 CD4 324 13.5% VL 0 DEXA -3.1 Tscore lumbar
03/09 CD4 207 10.9% VL 0
11/08 CD4 227 10.3% VL 0 Chol 176 Trig 156
04/08 CD4 228 9.5% VL 0
01/08 CD4 194 9.0% VL 0
09/07 CD4 176 8.3% VL 0
03/07 CD4 130 9.5% VL 0 Chol 261  Trig 227
12/06 CD4 109 6.4% VL 0
09/06 CD4  88 5.5% VL und desens'd rtd to Bactrim
08/06  Began Atripla
07/06 CD4  59 5.0% VL 145 Chol 117 Trig 104
06/06  Bactrim rash, X2 Dapsone
 EFV & Truvada Chol 128 Trig 131
05/06 CD4  6 (2.0%) VL 78667 only V179D mutation Dx PC MAC

Offline xyahka

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Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #27 on: April 12, 2009, 04:36:14 AM »
I agree with Ann and Dachshund. There is another posibility. Maybe he could have infected you if you were HIV-. If he barebacks with anybody he might have been infecting other people. Is he going to call them?
Or maybe he has passed you another STD or a new strain of HIV. Why are you feeling so guilty? Is he feeling guilty about the STD´s he might have passed you?
If he barebaked with you he probably does it with anybody else. If he is not HIV+ by now he will probably be very soon.
You are not his mother.

I agree with this position. You might try using the online tool that sends unknown messages to people who might be exposed to the virus, it was listed in poz site some months ago, or contact an ASO to contact the guy but in the ultimate case.... he is responsible for his actions.

Nowadays everybody knows about hiv and the risk they are taking... you don't know how many times he might have done it before you... just try to avoid this situations next time.

Juan Carlos
13/03/07 1er diagnóstico /Peso: 79kg
19/04/07 CD4: 494 /CViral: ?? /Peso: 80kg
19/07/07 CD4: 659 /CViral: ?? /Peso: 79.5kg
06/03/08 CD4: 573 (después de meses muy deprimido) /CViral: ?? /Peso: 79kg
17/09/08 CD4: ?? /CViral: ?? /Peso: 84Kg
06/02/09 CD4: ?? /CViral: ?? /Peso: 85Kg /HCV: Neg /HBV: Neg.
07/03/09 CD4: ?? /CViral: ?? /Peso: 87Kg / Gym 3días/semana y Natación 2días/semana.
12/05/09 CD4: 470 /Cviral: ?? /Peso: 87Kg.
08/07/09 CD4: ? /CViral: ? /Peso: 77Kg.
09/12/09 CD4: 510 /CViral: ? /Peso: 78kg. No medicinas aún
10/01/10 CD4: ? /CViral: ? /Peso: 76Kg.
15/05/10 CD4: 320 /CViral: ? /Peso: 76Kg.
01/02/11 CD4: 291 /CViral: ? /Peso: 78kg.
05/05/11 CD4: 366 /CViral: ? /Peso: 78kg.
27/07/11 CD4: 255 /CViral: 138000 /Peso: 78kg.

Disfrutando y aceptando una nueva vida...

Offline Ann

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Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #28 on: April 12, 2009, 08:36:23 AM »

Condoms are are not 100% safe.

Disclosure and routine testing along with condom use are basic musts.


Condoms, when used and stored correctly, rarely break. Condom breakage is really the only thing that matters when it comes to condoms and preventing hiv infection. Contrary to the popular myth that The Church likes to cram down our throats, condoms do NOT have "tiny holes" that the virus can slip through. Condoms have been PROVEN to prevent hiv infection. There have been long-term studies of couples where one is positive and one is negative. In the couples who used condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, but no barrier for oral activities, not one of the negative partners became infected with hiv. Not one.

And by the way, condoms aren't effective AT ALL when they're still in the package while you're fucking. You have to take one out of the package, correctly  put it on the appropriate penis, and lather on some water-based lube.

From a (supposedly) hiv negative person's perspective, relying on disclosure is the stupidest thing one could do. (For clarity, I am not saying the person is stupid, I'm saying their actions  are stupid.) Too many only THINK they're hiv negative - and why would someone with this mindset disclose? They can't admit to having a virus they don't think they have. More often than not, we see newly diagnosed people here say "he said he was neg" or "he didn't say anything so I assumed he was ok". (the latter being more usually implied than stated outright) I can't believe each and every one of these boogiemen were lying (be it blatant or a lie of omission) - most of them probably believed what they were saying.

Personally, I wouldn't participate in any  type of intimate sexual activities (bar kissing) unless I'd already told that person about me and my virus, and I've never knowingly omitted that information. (Yep, I went for four years not knowing I was positive and if anyone asked me during those four years, I would have sworn I was hiv negative.) I want to know upfront if this person has a clue, or if they're going to potentially freak out or morph into a serious asshole if and when they do find out. Even if I were having an on-line one-off.

Even so, I absolutely defend the decision of any fellow pozzie who does not tell prior to having sexual contact, providing they are using condoms when fucking and importantly, know how to use them correctly.  It ain't rocket science, for sure, but knowing all the tricks and tips will reduce your chances of a broken condom to next to zero. (please see the links in my signature line)

As has been said before in this thread, it's not a lack of disclosure that's fueling this pandemic, it's a lack of condom use. For a twist on one of my mantras in the Am I forum:  Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid giving someone else your virus. It really is that simple!

Ann


And by the way, the simplest way of being safe when hooking up with someone is to say something along the lines of, "We're using a condom. I don't know what you  might have!" Say it in a friendly way and stick to your guns. No glove, no love.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2009, 08:49:51 AM by Ann »
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline clsoca

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Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2009, 12:12:45 AM »
In my opinion and my opinion alone, individuals in risk groups must endure routine HIV testing and must disclose their HIV Poz status if applicable to each and every sex partner to include the mandatory usage of a condom. I cannot comprehend the thought of a condom replacing disclosure of an individual's HIV poz status being disclosed. This is irresponsible and I do judge from a HIV negative person's perspective I once enjoyed not so long ago.

I have had condoms break on me and in me. Condoms are not 100% and that's an indisputable fact even when properly used.

My point is to only emphasize on routine HIV testing and disclosing it prior to placing someone at risk or even at a very marginal risk.  What are we afraid of?

Anyhow, feel free to criticize me relative to my opinion. I am relatively newly infected therefore I almost certainly have the HIV negative outlook still. I hope everyone will respect my opinion.

 
10/07 Infected
11/07 Seroconversion
07/08 Tested Poz
07/08 VL 487  CD4 658  (No Meds)
10/08 VL 286  CD4 724  (No Meds)
01/24/09 VL 30,100   CD4 329 CD4 30% (No Meds)
02/06/09 VL 44,000   CD4 367 CD4 36%  Blood Work @ UCLA (No Meds)
02/06/09 VL 44,000   CD4 317 CD4 35% Blood Work @ USC (No Meds)
02/12/09 VL 52,000   CD4 297 CD4 29%
02/12/09  Started Atripla
04/01/09 VL 60  CD4 667   CD4 48%
06-05-09  VL UD CD4 427   CD4 39%

Offline Cliff

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Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #30 on: April 13, 2009, 03:50:17 AM »
What are we afraid of?
...stigma, discrimination, intolerance, rejection, denial, lack of confidence, having to face negative attitudes towards HIV and perhaps the threat of violence.  There are a whole host of reasons why some people find it difficult to always disclose. 

Offline John2038

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Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #31 on: April 13, 2009, 04:02:48 AM »
In this story here, we are having someone known as HIV+ who get anal sex with a partner of unknown status.

HIV is a life time disease, and there is no discussion that a chance must be given to the one exposed to save his life.

I an HIV+ is fearing discrimination, intolerance, rejection, denial, etc.., he/she have to think about that before engaging others in unprotected sexual intercourse.
After that, it's too late to say "I was afraid to disclose etc". After come the time to assume and save the life of others each time it's possible.

My 2 cents as many like to say here to say, just saying, just my opinion, just bla bla

Offline Cliff

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Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #32 on: April 13, 2009, 04:16:27 AM »
Well colouring the debate that disclosure is "saving a life" is a bit dramatic.  And yes, disclosing before having unprotected sex is right (but only a few probably manages to do this 100% of the time).  Slip-ups will happen.

But my point was actually....that preaching 100% disclosure and making it sound easy (i.e., "what are we afraid of?") sounds great on paper (umm, epaper), but it doesn't and won't translate well in real life.  Yours is an easy position to take/argue in a forum.  It plays less well in real life, when people actually have to make the difficult (sometimes seemingly terrifying) decision to disclose (or not).  I have friends who have been positive 10+ years and still struggle with this issue.  Preaching in absolutes doesn't help much.  But it does make the preacher feel good. 

Maybe that's the point, I guess.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2009, 05:41:50 AM by Cliff »

Offline John2038

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Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #33 on: April 13, 2009, 04:46:03 AM »
Talking about personal experience, disclosing that I was HIV+ have become a problem neither for me nor for those I have disclosed to.

No later than yesterday, I went to a dinner with one of the girl who was willing to date me last year and her sister.

The discussion come around HIV. I said straight to the sister that I have never seen before that I was HIV+.

I also rised the question:

- Can you tell me why, when I have disclose to you, you wasn't afraid.

She answered:

- You explained to me so nicely what have happen to you and what HIV is that I was surprised but not afraid. And you know, when someone is ready to love someone else, then HIV, disclosed as you did, doesn't appears like a problem. If now you haven't told me and I should have come to discover it later on, I would have become very scared and escape immediately.


At the time I was looking for Ms Right, I have always disclose most of the time at the first dinner.
I got no one rejection. HIV have never appears for any of them as being a problem.
It has always appears like something to bear in mind maybe, no more.


Now I can understand that if someone have never try to disclose, or have tried but have then face discrimination, rejection and so, it can become a traumatising experience that we don't want to repeat again.


But in such case, those people must try to either date HIV+, or at least, refrain from getting unprotected with someone else of unknown status. It is also for their own protection.

Then, if unprotected sex should happen, at least a PEP should be offered.

I don't see the point why not to mention HIV+ in a profile, or STD if it's too difficult let say.

We are 33mio HIV+ in this world, and I know personally plenty of HIV+ people.
We are the most able to understand each others, and I guess that if a HIV+ person see the profile of someone else saying HIV+, he/she might still be contacted, even by those saying nothing about their status, or mentioning HIV-.

Indeed, some HIV- are either HIV award, or maybe already got a partner in the past HIV+, or maybe get the opportunity to work with HIV+ people, or get relative who are infected, or etc..

Sure it's not the vast majority of the HIV-. But at least, many of the HIV- can learn also what HIV is and not become afraid then about it, as it was the case for me.
In more, IMHO, from the day we know our status, our responsibility is to ensure that we won't expose anyone else. No matter the way we are choosing to ensure that.
As long as we do not expose others, it's fine I guess.

Note
I am not judging, but just providing a point of view.
HIV is NOT funny, and we are not supposed to be willing to infect anyone else. Could it be because of fearing rejection, discrimination or whatever else.
Look at how now Newbie is feeling.

EDIT: Crap english
« Last Edit: April 13, 2009, 09:52:33 PM by John2038 »

Offline RapidRod

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Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #34 on: April 13, 2009, 04:50:06 AM »
In my opinion and my opinion alone, individuals in risk groups must endure routine HIV testing and must disclose their HIV Poz status if applicable to each and every sex partner to include the mandatory usage of a condom. I cannot comprehend the thought of a condom replacing disclosure of an individual's HIV poz status being disclosed. This is irresponsible and I do judge from a HIV negative person's perspective I once enjoyed not so long ago.

I have had condoms break on me and in me. Condoms are not 100% and that's an indisputable fact even when properly used.

My point is to only emphasize on routine HIV testing and disclosing it prior to placing someone at risk or even at a very marginal risk.  What are we afraid of?

Anyhow, feel free to criticize me relative to my opinion. I am relatively newly infected therefore I almost certainly have the HIV negative outlook still. I hope everyone will respect my opinion.

 
 

 I've been using condoms for over 25 years and yet to have one fail.
When a condom fails it's usually Operator Error, not the fault of the condom.

Offline BlueMoon

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Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #35 on: April 13, 2009, 06:59:29 AM »
If it's wrong to assume that someone is aware and honest about his HIV status, then why is it ok to assume that he will use a condom correctly, and that the condom is not defective?

To say "I've never had a condom fail" is no proof that one won't fail.  What do you say when it happens?  "Oops sorry about that, I was assured by an internet website that this wouldn't happen.  By the way, you now need to go to an emergency clinic and take expensive and powerful drugs for the next month.  Good luck!" 

Anyone who has been around manufactured things knows that things can be faulty, even right out of the package.  Condoms do fail; I had one tear inside me. 
...................VL.....CD4.....%
-----------------------------------------
08/10-- ......<40.....290.....42
05/10-- ......<48.....290.....46
02/10-- ......<48.....481.....44
10/09-- ......<48.....277.....46
07/09-- ......<48.....300.....38
05/09-- ........51.....449.....39
03/09-- Added Isentress
02/09-- ........65.....299.....34
11/08-- ........62.....242.....40
08/08-- ........66.....212.....29
05/08-- ......202.....217.....27
03/08-- ....5210.....187.....21
02/08-- Began Truvada/Reyataz/Norvir
12/07-- 273,000.....157.....22
11/07-- 229,000.....209.....22
10/07-- Diagnosis

It's a complex world.

Offline Ann

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Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #36 on: April 13, 2009, 08:01:20 AM »

 why is it ok to assume that he will use a condom correctly, and that the condom is not defective?


It's easy to ensure the condom is being used correctly. If you're not wearing the condom yourself, you could put the condom on your partner, then you'll know. Put the lube on his dick yourself, then you'll know. Reach down and periodically check the condom - and the lube - then you'll know. Pleading ignorance as to whether or not the condom is being used correctly just doesn't fly.

Defective condoms are rare. It's not just Rodney who has been using condoms for years without incident - there's plenty of others here who have had the same experience with them, me included. If a person is going to be that paranoid about the reliability of condoms, then maybe they should just forego sex until they're in a securely monogamous relationship and they've both been tested negative for everything. Never having sex is the ONLY way to be 100% certain you're not going to become infected with an STI.

NOTHING in life is absolutely 100% risk-free. Adults should understand this and decide how much risk they're willing to take.

Blue, if you had a condom rip inside you, then chances were great that there was either an air-bubble trapped in the tip and/or there wasn't enough lube being used. Whether you like it or not, the fact is that correctly used and stored condoms rarely, if ever, break.

I'm fine with whatever a person decides to do as regards disclosure, providing they're using condoms and using them correctly. I won't, however, stand by and say nothing when people insist that condoms can't be trusted. It sends the wrong message.

Ann

PS - if you're worried about defective condoms, buy your own and check their sell-by-date, correctly store your own (correct storage is very important in maintaining the integrity of latex condoms - read those links!), and carry and USE your own.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2009, 09:33:37 AM by Ann »
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline keyite

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Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #37 on: April 13, 2009, 08:37:52 AM »
I've never had a condom fail either - and used plenty over more than 25 years..

Offline komnaes

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Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #38 on: April 13, 2009, 08:43:42 AM »
Much as some want to drag it on I don't believe the OP has anything to do with condom uses. Rather it's about not using one.

And back to Newbie, IMHO, if you have an issue with your own peace of mind than maybe you should find a way to contact this person, but don't let others guilt-trapping you - here or in the real world - into thinking that the responsibility was entirely yours. In an ideal world we all want the virus to stop with us - we use different methods as in my case and many others we stick with other HIVers, others choose disclosure, etc - but in your real life case the other person, while presented with the option of a condom, decided to NOT use it.

And I would also weight very careful my (yours) legal position - are you in a state (and country) where you could be prosecuted? You seem to indicate that you are, so at the end I would strongly recommend self-preservation - i.e. while both of you were, excuse me, stupid to not use a condom, you're the one alone to face criminal prosecution (if it's the case) for a mistake committed by both.

We, or at least of some, keep repeating the same line, though it's preaching to the converted, that anyone who has an active sex life and occasionally engaging in high risk unsafe sex should get themselves tested regularly. The whole idea that PEP might "save" him hangs on too many assumptions, none of them IMHO holds much water and if this person has any sense at all and he's not the kind that engages in unsafe sex regularly, he should have been responsible for seeking this remedy.

Now, before anyone says that I am encouraging us HIVers to go on barebacking rampages, I am just giving my opinions in regard to a real life situation AFTER the facts. I stick to poz-to-poz sex and disclose if anal sex (with condoms) could happen, but the other half of the formula is for those that are still neg to be sensible and protect themselves; stop senosorting and use condoms. Period.

Best of luck to you Newbie,

Shaun
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline Ann

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Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #39 on: April 13, 2009, 09:24:29 AM »

Much as some want to drag it on I don't believe the OP has anything to do with condom uses. Rather it's about not using one.


The root of the OP's dilemma is the fear of disclosure and how that can - and does - affect condom use and non-use. There's also the flip-side where condom use decides disclosure. They're intertwined in the extreme.

It's all relevant to the discussion and to leave it out would be to ignore a very large part the original issue. The disclosure issue and the condom issue are part and parcel of of what Newbie is going through. We would be doing ourselves a disservice to ignore these factors.

And yes, some of it will be preaching to the converted, but many of us are recent converts who are learning as they go. I do my best to keep them in mind when I post.


 i.e. while both of you were, excuse me, stupid to not use a condom, you're the one alone to face criminal prosecution (if it's the case) for a mistake committed by both.


Absolutely. That's what's so wrong with the blanket criminalization of hiv - the (previously) negative person is seen as a helpless victim, when in fact they were complicit. Except in cases of rape and other special circumstances (and by that I do NOT mean "but he said he was negative!"), the criminalization of hiv is just WRONG.


Newbie, how's it going? Hope you're ok, let us know.

Ann
« Last Edit: April 13, 2009, 09:26:07 AM by Ann »
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline komnaes

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Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #40 on: April 13, 2009, 09:40:21 AM »
Got it Ann.

Just for the record - I agree that condom-use IS the key and my issue with "dragging on" is to those insisting that it ain't so as "accidents" might happen. If check and use properly it's as safe as safer can be which again IMHO overrides the almost academic chance of failure.
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline Ann

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Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #41 on: April 13, 2009, 10:04:23 AM »

Just for the record - I agree that condom-use IS the key and my issue with "dragging on" is to those insisting that it ain't so as "accidents" might happen. If check and use properly it's as safe as safer can be which again IMHO overrides the almost academic chance of failure.


Absolutely. Condom use should be our corner-stone, rather than disclosure. Even with poz on poz; except when neither of you minds the possibility of other STIs. Condoms, when with someone of unknown or negative status, are non-negotiable for us. No glove, no love. That's just the way it is.

And another thing...   :o  ::)  ;D

For me, the arguments for disclosure, even when using condoms, don't hold water for one very simple reason: knowing that condoms do sometimes break is not our little secret.  Anyone who uses condoms knows this fact - it's obvious. Just about anything will break when used incorrectly and it's a no-brainer that condoms are included.

If they're going to have sex with you - or anyone - using condoms, it's a given that they accept that accidents happen once in a while. People who use them correctly know that they rarely, if ever, break. They know that accidents can be prevented from happening.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline MarcoPoz

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Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #42 on: April 13, 2009, 10:14:54 AM »
Hmmm wonder how things are going for Newbie--you there?

Might try using inspot.org as a way of allowing this partner to know they MAY have been exposed to an STD--if you wish to do that.

Either way--hope you come back soon ad let us know how you are.

Offline newbie76

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Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #43 on: April 13, 2009, 03:45:44 PM »
Wow... I didn't check the forum for little over 24 hours and I was surprised to see all these responses.

I guess that this topic is quite interesting for everyone.

Well, as much as I would like to tell you all that I did the "right" thing and called him and told him to get PEP, I didn't.

When I returned his call he did not pick up, then he called me and I couldn't answer, when I called him back it was his turn not to answer.

I saw him on the same website again and I sent him a couple of messages offering him to come around and watch a movie or something (with the intention of discussing what happened) but he ignored them.

In the end I saw that he was running out of time for PEP (72 hours) so I just left it.

I do feel a bit guilty, but as many people have said on here, it should have been his responsability as much as mine.

I will make sure this doesn't happen again.

Thank you all.

25th Apr 07: The worst day of my life
27th Apr 07: cd4 202 14%
30th Apr 07: cd4 126 18% VL 110000
19th May 07: Started Truvada/Sustiva
20th Jun 07: cd4 218 25% VL 435
13th Aug 07: cd4 374 20% VL 64
20th Dec 07: cd4 435 24% VL <50
20th Oct 08: cd4 725 31% VL <50
30th Nov 09: cd4 725 30% VL <50
01st Nov 10: cd4 755 33% VL<50
11th Nov 11: cd4 754 32% VL<50
01st May 12: cd4 864 40% VL<50
01st May 13: cd4 615 VL 609 :-/
14th May 13: VL <50

Offline Ann

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Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #44 on: April 13, 2009, 03:53:41 PM »
Newbie, I'm glad you've learned something from all this - and maybe others have too. Human nature being what it is, it's easy to get into a situation like yours. You've got our support and encouragement, and hopefully you can draw strength from that and won't allow yourself to be drawn into this type of predicament again.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #45 on: April 13, 2009, 04:13:25 PM »
Look, he wanted a quick fuck with no condoms -- the "only oral" line was just until he could see if you were a nasty looking troll.  Now he thinks you're in love with him and want a wedding ring and a honeymoon, so he's off looking for more condomless boytoys and ignoring you.

Such is life on the internet.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline clsoca

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Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #46 on: April 13, 2009, 05:07:10 PM »
Hi Newbie,

I wanted you to know that I fully admit to making plenty of huge mistakes while HIV negative. The mistakes include parting every night, BB sex with strangers, drugs, making money as my number one objective despite who is hurt, avoiding my family and placing material things above all including basic ethics (well you get the picture). I was a very bad person back then. In looking back, I am very ashamed of myself and I openly say it here in the LA gay scene. I was and continue to be a popular type of guy here in the LA scene and I must share with you that people are surprised to hear my new perspectives. 

When individuals would disclose to me that they were HIV poz (prior to having sex) I use to walk away.   Retrospectively, I regret how I treated those heroes back then. When I see these same guys now (and I do), I break my back to show these same guys so much ultimate respect because I know what they did took so much strength and courage. I admire these people so much because they put me above there own interests and desires to only be shit on by me. 

It is a shame and I am embarrassed it took an HIV poz test for me to become a better person and re categorize what is important in life. I have reconnected with my family. I am doing much better in my job now (people trust me now). Therefore don't be so hard on yourself. Nobody is perfect my friend.
10/07 Infected
11/07 Seroconversion
07/08 Tested Poz
07/08 VL 487  CD4 658  (No Meds)
10/08 VL 286  CD4 724  (No Meds)
01/24/09 VL 30,100   CD4 329 CD4 30% (No Meds)
02/06/09 VL 44,000   CD4 367 CD4 36%  Blood Work @ UCLA (No Meds)
02/06/09 VL 44,000   CD4 317 CD4 35% Blood Work @ USC (No Meds)
02/12/09 VL 52,000   CD4 297 CD4 29%
02/12/09  Started Atripla
04/01/09 VL 60  CD4 667   CD4 48%
06-05-09  VL UD CD4 427   CD4 39%

Offline BlueMoon

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Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #47 on: April 13, 2009, 06:40:01 PM »
Oh well, it's only HIV.
...................VL.....CD4.....%
-----------------------------------------
08/10-- ......<40.....290.....42
05/10-- ......<48.....290.....46
02/10-- ......<48.....481.....44
10/09-- ......<48.....277.....46
07/09-- ......<48.....300.....38
05/09-- ........51.....449.....39
03/09-- Added Isentress
02/09-- ........65.....299.....34
11/08-- ........62.....242.....40
08/08-- ........66.....212.....29
05/08-- ......202.....217.....27
03/08-- ....5210.....187.....21
02/08-- Began Truvada/Reyataz/Norvir
12/07-- 273,000.....157.....22
11/07-- 229,000.....209.....22
10/07-- Diagnosis

It's a complex world.

Offline blondbeauty

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Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #48 on: April 13, 2009, 08:00:16 PM »
Miss Philicia, nobody else could have described the situation better. That is just what is happening...
The only member in these forums approved by WINBA: World International Nail and Beauty Association.
Epstein Barr +; CMV +; Toxoplasmosis +; HIV-1 +.
Counts when starting treatment:
V.L.:80.200 copies. CD4: 25%=503
Started Sustiva-Truvada 14/August/2006
Last V.L.count (Oct 2013): Undetectable
Last CD4 count (OCT 2013): 52%= 933

Offline John2038

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Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #49 on: April 13, 2009, 09:13:36 PM »
In the end I saw that he was running out of time for PEP (72 hours) so I just left it.

Not judging but not suprise also

Oh well, it's only HIV.

 :D

And who knows, if infected, he will maybe become a Super Elite Controller !

Offline komnaes

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Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #50 on: April 13, 2009, 09:48:28 PM »
Funny how sarcasm is always the last gesture when people fall off from their moral high ground..
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline John2038

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Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #51 on: April 13, 2009, 09:55:05 PM »
Might try using inspot.org as a way of allowing this partner to know they MAY have been exposed to an STD--if you wish to do that.

Original !

Now, excepting for finding local testing resources, I don't see why people should select a city to send this anonymous postcard.

Offline Ann

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Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #52 on: April 14, 2009, 11:07:03 AM »

Oh well, it's only HIV.



Once you get used to it, HIV will be just another inconvenience to be dealt with.



Funny how sarcasm is always the last gesture when people fall off from their moral high ground..


Maybe he wasn't being sarcastic after all... ???
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Peter Staley

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Re: BB sex. I have done something stupid and need advice
« Reply #53 on: April 19, 2009, 12:17:39 PM »
Sorry about the guilt, Newbie, but I think it's worth pointing out that the possible damage done doesn't end in 72 hours.  If in the very small chance he has been infected, then he could well start infecting others as his viral load soars over the next few weeks. 

Continued non-disclosure might have additional costs.

Just sayin'.

 


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