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Author Topic: seroconversion timing  (Read 6563 times)

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Offline positivmat

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seroconversion timing
« on: March 08, 2009, 08:07:57 PM »
Can anyone help me figure this out?  I tested poz 1/30. My blood work on 2/8 showed cd4 325 v/l 800,000. I had rash on 12/3, flu like thing 12/24 to 1/3 then pneumonia for next 4 wks. What would be the window of time for my infection?  Does anyone know if this can be figured out?  I have contacted all prior connections and they are all negative - they say. This just plays with my mind. I know its not as important as my health but I can't help but wonder. Thanks
Matt

Offline PeteNYNJ

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Re: seroconversion timing
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2009, 11:45:48 PM »
I would spend less time wondering who gave it to you - it is only going to drive you nuts.  Everyone's disease is different - some people seroconvert rather early after infection while others take several weeks.  Remember, sometimes people don't know they are positive and just assume they are negative so maybe that is the reaction you are getting from past partners. 

Focus on your health and the long future you have ahead of you. 

Offline tag_man08

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Re: seroconversion timing
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2009, 04:04:39 AM »
I have read 6-8 weeks prior to your flu-like symtoms should have been your infection window.  Just remember....not everyone is going to be honest with you.   I'm proud you told your prior experiences.  That took a lot of guts.  But, try to focus on you now.  Don't try to figure out who gave it to you.   It will be wasted time.  I think its sometimes better not to know....I decided that I did not want to know.  I told the ones I thought might have infected me, but they all said they were negative too.  I have an idea...but I decided it really did not matter.  It would not change anything.  So...my advice is focus on you now.  Keep doing everything you were doing before.  Keep your head up.  Get a good support system set up.  You will need it to bounce off the crazy things that will go off in your head...lol...
08/30/07:  The HIV diagnosis...
09/07/07:  CD4 299 (21%)  VL 160K
01/07/08:  CD4 396 (26%)  VL 125K
04/21/08:  CD4 478 (25%)  VL 92K
09/03/08:  CD4 313 (23%)  VL 10K
11/03/08:  CD4 338 (23%)  VL 30K
11/21/08:  Isentress & Truvada
12/05/08:  CD4 485 (29%)  VL  undetectable in two weeks
03/13/09:  CD4 575 (30%)  VL  undetectable

Offline jampdx

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Re: seroconversion timing
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2009, 06:46:30 AM »
 Mine was speedy.... I was deathly ill within 3 weeks of exposure.  I definitely have read a varying response though on when people converted.  Most common is 3-6 weeks though.
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-Infected 1/6/2009
Positive 2/9/2009
3/8/2009:  CD4 603  VL f\'d up by lab and having to redraw
4/7/2009 CD4 650 VL 348
6/24/2009 cd4 964 VL 850
9/26/2009 CD4 546 VL 822
7/22/13 CD4 1080 VL 2,220

Offline positivmat

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Re: seroconversion timing
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2009, 06:55:14 AM »
Yea maybe I will try support group. I am about 70 miles from NYC and there is not a lot of stuff up here. But I will try and find a group. I think part of me wanted to talk to the person who gave it to me face to face like he is a support person. Probably not necessarily appropriate. But maybe if I get to a group this desire/obsession to identify the person will lessen. These forums and the internet have been a great place for info/support but I need someone who is going thru this face to face too.  Some days are ok. I can focus on other things but some days all I can think about is this. My partner is neg and supportive but he is avoidind touching me like it is 1982. I try to talk to him about whether that is due to my cheating or the disease and I am not sure if he knows. But he is unable to fill this suppportive role I am looking for. Thank you both for replies

Offline jampdx

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Re: seroconversion timing
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2009, 06:58:59 AM »
Everyone is different, but talking to the one that infected me pissed me off even more. hahah.  I really just want him to step in front of a bus.  The worst part is, I blame myself the most because if I hadn't said, "No, you will wear a condom...."  I wouldn't be in this boat.  I still am sticking by the bus bit though. ;)

xxoo
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-Infected 1/6/2009
Positive 2/9/2009
3/8/2009:  CD4 603  VL f\'d up by lab and having to redraw
4/7/2009 CD4 650 VL 348
6/24/2009 cd4 964 VL 850
9/26/2009 CD4 546 VL 822
7/22/13 CD4 1080 VL 2,220

Offline positivmat

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Re: seroconversion timing
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2009, 04:48:34 PM »
Yea Jacob, i understand the bus feeling.  I usually have this really great view of myself handling things in a really mature way.  Like, oh, "yea you are the one who gave me this virus, I am cool with that."   
I would be very capable of switching on a dime and pushing whoever this was in front of a bus.  I know that i am just fighting the reality of this whole thing.  It feels so much like when i was 13 and realized i was gay and knew that there wasn't a goddamned thing i could do about it but shut up and accept it.  I came so far, life was so good and this is something i never thought that i would have to accept and i am fighting it.  (I know that i am whining so it doesn't have to be pointed out)  Focusing on who it was that gave it to me really allows me to "continue the fight" against reality still and i know that's not good for me.  I was already fighting reality in a sense by sleeping around, looking for happiness and the irony is that this disease has taken that escape away from me.  I am really being forced to face this AND MY OTHER ISSUES and i don't want to. 

Offline Structure310

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Re: seroconversion timing
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2009, 06:07:26 PM »
I've had a similar experience so far and its only been a week since I found out.  I am realizing what I had been doing wrong all these years and what I should have been doing instead.  Was always too scared to date and never took interest in anyone, thought I was young and should "play the field" and focused on the whole "cool factor" way too much, being concious of who I went out with, where I went.  Now I want to do the things that I should have been doing all along, feeling as though I haven't been living life to the fullest being caught up in the whole youth culture.  I think finding a long-term partner would be great for me right now, but I know thats a little needy of me to be thinking of that at this point.

Offline Structure310

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Re: seroconversion timing
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2009, 06:10:04 PM »
I pretty much  know who infected me, I just assumed "he's in impeccable shape at 40, he's affluent, he looked me in the eye and said he was negative" and little did I know he would be the one. I had unprotected sex one other time  in my life before him.  Foolish of me to assume.  He even called me when he flew back in, texted me weeks later telling me to visit him.  It just doesn't make any sense to me.

Offline positivmat

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ýRe: seroconversion timing
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2009, 09:21:08 PM »
Structure310, You seem so well adjusted to this change in one week. I wasn't afraid of love. I was more a love addict than a sex addict. I really loved the completely passionate latin guys. I would look for them and get really involved in my head in a whole love affair thing. I don't know really what iwas trying to capture. I do know that my life has been like walking a tight rope being in relationships and falling out of love. It hurts so bad. I am amazed that you see your "needy" desire and are wary of it. I loved to give into mine and let passion rule. That's what got me here. I think I have this notion that I want to know the timing and who infected me so I can share this virus with someone.

Offline mecch

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Re: seroconversion timing
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2009, 10:05:38 PM »
Matt the person to ask is the technical specialist who is looking directly at whatever blood work was done all along.  Certain tests are more indicative of date of infection than others. So you really must have all the information and then a specialist, should he/she be so inclined, can give you a ball park figure based on the actual blood work.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Structure310

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Re: seroconversion timing
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2009, 12:14:49 AM »
Matt,
Yeah I know what you mean, about sharing the virus.  I'm angry at the guy, yet I feel like calling him and letting him know that he infected me.  I want to know if he knew he was positive at the time, or if he just found out recently as well.  I still have his number, haven't talked to him in over 6 months (exposure was in Late May 2008), he was just a one night stand from a circuit party.   I also don't want to give him the time of day if he knowingly exposed me, so I'm stuck between finding out the truth and not wanting to give him the better of me again.

I may also be appearing more well adjusted than I really am.  I'm just trying to be hopeful, because I was depressed and still am now, and realize if I want to stick around I need to move on as quickly as possible.  I'm sure in a few weeks when I regain my libido I will get really depressed about not being able to just go out and get "lucky".  Right now sex doesn't interest me, I can't even masturbate, the idea that something is in me disgusts me.  Sex also reminds me of how I got here.

Offline Peter Staley

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Re: seroconversion timing
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2009, 09:37:28 AM »
Can anyone help me figure this out?  I tested poz 1/30. My blood work on 2/8 showed cd4 325 v/l 800,000. I had rash on 12/3, flu like thing 12/24 to 1/3 then pneumonia for next 4 wks. What would be the window of time for my infection?  Does anyone know if this can be figured out?  I have contacted all prior connections and they are all negative - they say. This just plays with my mind. I know its not as important as my health but I can't help but wonder. Thanks
Matt

Matt -- having pneumonia and a CD4 count of 325 is generally indicative of a longer-term infection -- years, not months.  There are exceptions to every generalization, but I doubt you were seroconverting in December.

Offline positivmat

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Re: seroconversion timing
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2009, 03:10:11 AM »
its def not from b4 2008 because I was only with one partner from 96 to 2008 and he was neg and I tested neg with him  I started having anonymous partners in 6/08. My doc thinks tcells are low from acute syndrome  I thought that was low too.

Offline madbrain

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Re: seroconversion timing
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2009, 04:33:48 AM »
What would be the window of time for my infection?  Does anyone know if this can be figured out?

You can't figure the window from the blood work alone. This had been discussed many times. As Peter said, it's more likely statistically that you have had it a while, but recent infection can't be ruled out either still .

There are many different mutations of the virus out there, and people respond differently to them - some progress fast and others slowly.

What was the date of your last negative HIV test ?


Offline madbrain

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Re: seroconversion timing
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2009, 04:37:18 AM »
its def not from b4 2008 because I was only with one partner from 96 to 2008 and he was neg and I tested neg with him  I started having anonymous partners in 6/08. My doc thinks tcells are low from acute syndrome  I thought that was low too.

Don't underestimate the possibility that your bf contracted it from someone else sometime during those 12 years, and passed it on to you. The only way to rule that out would be if you had a negative HIV test 3 months after your last sexual contact with him.

Offline madbrain

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Re: seroconversion timing
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2009, 05:17:05 AM »
Hi,

Just remember....not everyone is going to be honest with you.

Indeed ! If someone knew they were HIV+, and didn't tell you before having unprotected sex with you, and if they aren't part of your life anymore, what's their incentive to tell you the truth afterwards ? If they admit that they knew they were positive when they had sex and did not tell you, in many jurisdictions, they could face criminal charges for having done so ! Those laws work to ensure that whoever it was will never tell you afterwards.

Remember that calling your former partners to tell them of your status - something which I also did - is not going to change your HIV status, nor theirs. Nobody admitted to me to being positive before sex, or afterwards when I turned positive and called them.

But such a call could be a much-needed reminder for someone else to get tested or re-tested. If you don't want to make that call yourself, then you can have the health department notify them anonymously.

Offline mecch

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Re: seroconversion timing
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2009, 05:48:34 AM »
You can't figure the window from the blood work alone. This had been discussed many times. As Peter said, it's more likely statistically that you have had it a while, but recent infection can't be ruled out either still .

If you are going to say that, say the complete information. If tests include P24Antigens and if person is negative then positive HIV antibody, after a few weeks, it is certainly possible for bloodwork to figure out a window of infection!  Maybe not in this posters case, but people use these forums and apply them to their own situations.

Doctors experienced with looking at blood work can answer these questions, saying definitively yes, I can give you a window, or no, I cannot, based on the blood work that has been done.  And the patients history.

Positivmat says he tested negative with his former partner.  So what was the date of that negative test?  All this information needs to be discussed with the expert looking at the blood work, and then the expert can say, yes I can estimate, or no I cannot, based on the information trail, or lack thereof.

Its true, often difficult to estimate infection dates if there is no reliable trail of information.  But its also true that future treatments may very much consider infection dates, again.  So let's say what science and the art of medicine can tell us, sometimes, not just what it can't.

« Last Edit: March 17, 2009, 05:56:26 AM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline madbrain

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Re: seroconversion timing
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2009, 05:37:31 PM »
If you are going to say that, say the complete information. If tests include P24Antigens and if person is negative then positive HIV antibody, after a few weeks, it is certainly possible for bloodwork to figure out a window of infection!  Maybe not in this posters case, but people use these forums and apply them to their own situations.

Doctors experienced with looking at blood work can answer these questions, saying definitively yes, I can give you a window, or no, I cannot, based on the blood work that has been done.  And the patients history.

I meant that the window of infection could not be figured out from the CD4 and VL bloodwork results alone.

Quote
Positivmat says he tested negative with his former partner.  So what was the date of that negative test? 

I did ask him what date his last HIV negative test was. He was infected sometimes between that date (less the window for that test), and the date of his HIV positive test. The CD4 and VL tests don't really come into play to determine the infection date since there is so much variability between different virus strains and individual progression.

Narrowing done the date further is really much more difficult and less reliable, and it can't be done by bloodwork alone, but sexual history and other factors may help make some guesses.

However, one must consider what they are trying to accomplish by doing that. Is one going to feel better by knowing the exact date or the exact partner that transmitted HIV to them ?

Offline positivmat

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Re: seroconversion timing
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2009, 06:20:20 PM »
I tested neg in winter of 07/08. My partner tested neg mid Feb 09. I started sleeping around 6/08. I had sex with condoms and then let someone "dip" on 11/5/08. he had a lot of precum. Then on 11/19 I did it again with an uncircumcised guy. Then I got the rash (little red raised bumps) on my upper chest shoulders and back on 12/3/08. I knew that was different. That's what made me think it was one of those two. It matters less and less each day but I still think about it every night. They both say they tested neg in Feb 09. I think my behavior was shocking to me and I want to know who it is that shares this link with me. But letting go of it a little more each day. These forums, all of your replies and pm's and my new therapist are helping. Still hurts deep down that I traded my health for all those one night deals. Makes me want to know who it was.

Offline mecch

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Re: seroconversion timing
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2009, 06:57:02 AM »
That's what made me think it was one of those two. It matters less and less each day but I still think about it every night. They both say they tested neg in Feb 09. I think my behavior was shocking to me and I want to know who it is that shares this link with me. But letting go of it a little more each day. These forums, all of your replies and pm's and my new therapist are helping. Still hurts deep down that I traded my health for all those one night deals. Makes me want to know who it was.

Might have been one of those two, and if so one of those two is a liar.  So that means you are doing the correct reflection on yourself - why was I wasting my time with potential liars?

You say "I traded my health for all those one night deals" and simply but it makes sense but you could open that up and ask:
   What was it that motivated the period of one night stands?  Then maybe solve that or make some peace with it and move ahead.
   And what was it that motivated the decision to take a risk during the one night stands?  Then repeat - solve or accept it as human and move ahead a bit.
   You might find this displaces some of the self hurt unto more or less or unexpected sources.
   It seems that reading these forums for a few months, quite a few people are able to rather quickly turn the page on how they became seropositive -  while others stew in the whys and hows for awhile. I am certainly a stewer, maybe like you too.  But If you accept that as part of your character, you might find some wisdom in the reflection.

I know some very promiscuous people who never have unsafe sex, are HIV-, and have no big problem with their promiscuity.

I think your reaction and rumination is perfectly humain and you should just muddle through it until you feel better and put it behind you - dont be impatient and dont compare your own emotional and intellectual reaction to becoming HIV (and how) to other people and feel bad about it.


“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline positivmat

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Re: seroconversion timing
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2009, 08:31:40 AM »
Thank you for the encouragement and helping me to be ok with my rumination. Its not as bad as it was. But there are triggers that re-open the case. My latest turn is tuberculosis treatment. I know that I am in good hands but forgiving myself is a process I find myself struggling with at each new twist of this adjustment to hiv. I am in charge of this life though and I brought myself here for some reason. I prayed to be free from my total opbsession with sex and this feels like I am in a whole new world where I might learn finally what it means to enjoy something other than sex. For me this is definitely a doorway to something new. But each time it reminds me that I am not where I was I get scared and want to run away. Thank you mech for the encouragement

 


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