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Author Topic: Korea Red Ginseng -- it taste really disgusting.....  (Read 4612 times)

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Offline hahaha

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  • Posts: 123
Korea Red Ginseng -- it taste really disgusting.....
« on: April 18, 2008, 01:30:01 AM »
I found the following article and start to drink ginseng tea today.... Oh My God, it is really disgusting.........

Long-term intake of Korean red ginseng causes deletion in the nef gene as well as slow progression.
Cho Y, Lee H, Yang H, Ahn S, Lee H.
Int Conf AIDS. 2004 Jul 11-16; 15: abstract no. B10519.

Asan medical center, University of Ulsan, SEOUL, Republic of Korea
Methods: We performed double-or triple-nested PCR to amplify nef sequences using 298 different PBMC samples obtained from 96 patients excluding hemophiliacs. Patients were divided into 3 groups according to the annual decrease in CD4 cell; 10 slow progressors (SP)(<20/ul over 10 year), 62 typical progressors (TP)(21-60/ul), and 24 rapid progressors (RP)(>60/ul).
Results: Gross deletions (g[squ]nef>15 bp) including small deletions in 2 patients were detected in 116 nef genes in 27 patients.  Surprisingly, 7 out of 10 SP patients revealed g[squ]nef (54 out of 286) at >/= 2 different samples. Characteristics of g[squ]nef in this study were quite different from other reports.

Conclusions: Data show that there is a causal relationship between g[squ]nef and the slow progression by long-term intake of KRG.

Aug 9, 2006 Get infected in Japan #$%^*
Oct 2006 CD4 239
Nov 2006 CD4 299 VL 60,000
Dec 1, Sustiva, Ziagan and 3TC
Jan 07, CD4 400

Offline risred1

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Re: Korea Red Ginseng -- it taste really disgusting.....
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2008, 02:17:37 AM »
Suggestion, Take it in a capsule form?
risred1 - hiv +
02/07 CD4 404 - 27% - VL 15k
10/07 CD4 484 - 31% - VL 45k
05/08 CD4 414 - 26% - VL 70k
01/09 CD4 365 - 23% - VL 65k
05/09 CD4 291 - 23% - VL 115k - Started Meds - Reyataz/Truvada
06/09 CD4 394 - ?% - VL 1200 - Boosted Reyataz with Norvir and Truvada
07/09 CD4 441 - ?% - VL 118 - Boosted Reyataz with Norvir and Truvada
09/09 CD4 375 - ?% - VL Undetectable - Boosted Reyataz with Norvir and Truvada
12/09 CD4 595 - ?% - VL Undetectable - VIT D 34 - Reyataz/Truvada/Norvir

Offline Runningbear

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  • Posts: 13
Re: Korea Red Ginseng -- it taste really disgusting.....
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2008, 10:16:25 PM »
Hi there...I asked my clinic pharmacist about Ginseng, and they warned me against it on my meds...Kivexa and Kaletra...as it is processed in the liver as well.  Not clear on exactly how they contraindicate each other, but check with your doctor or pharmacist first.  It was recommended I try Astragalus instead of Ginseng.

Cheers

Offline Miss Philicia

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  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Korea Red Ginseng -- it taste really disgusting.....
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2008, 10:59:01 PM »
but check with your doctor or pharmacist first. 

(as with any supplement)
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline fearless

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  • Posts: 2,191
Re: Korea Red Ginseng -- it taste really disgusting.....
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2008, 06:12:36 AM »
I can't take anything with Ginseng in it as it sets off a Meniere's episode in me. Then I do turn into a dizzy queen.
Be forgiving, be grateful, be optimistic

Offline madbrain

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  • Posts: 1,208
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    • My personal site
Re: Korea Red Ginseng -- it taste really disgusting.....
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2009, 08:25:25 PM »
I'm in the process of reviewing the supplements I have taken in the past to decide whether to reorder them or not. Panax (korean red) ginseng is on the list of what I have taken before and am now out of.

I don't have access to the full original article for this study. I would be really interested in the amount of ginseng used by the patients in particular. I have been using NOW panax ginseng 520mg capsules, between 2 and 4 a day, since about last june. That dose is from the suggested use on the bottle, not from the study. I would prefer to know what was in the study. Does anyone know ?

Offline Inchlingblue

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Re: Korea Red Ginseng -- it taste really disgusting.....
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2009, 03:15:43 PM »
I'm in the process of reviewing the supplements I have taken in the past to decide whether to reorder them or not. Panax (korean red) ginseng is on the list of what I have taken before and am now out of.

I don't have access to the full original article for this study. I would be really interested in the amount of ginseng used by the patients in particular. I have been using NOW panax ginseng 520mg capsules, between 2 and 4 a day, since about last june. That dose is from the suggested use on the bottle, not from the study. I would prefer to know what was in the study. Does anyone know ?


I came across a patent related to this study that gives this amount:  "the effective amount is 60 to 90 mg/kg body weight/day."  Sounds like ALOT, doesn't it it?

Here is the link:

http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20090011053

madbrain: considering your impressive numbers have you ever listed here on this site the various supplements you take? Just curious.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2009, 03:19:30 PM by Inchlingblue »

Offline georgep77

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  • Posts: 145
Re: Korea Red Ginseng -- it taste really disgusting.....
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2009, 05:02:33 PM »
madbrain: considering your impressive numbers have you ever listed here on this site the various supplements you take? Just curious.
Yes madbrain, please gives us some information about your experience with supplements...
                                     Thanks     :D
Come on Sangamo,  Geovax,  Bionor immuno, ...Make us happy !!!
+ 2008

Offline madbrain

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    • My personal site
Re: Korea Red Ginseng -- it taste really disgusting.....
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2009, 07:35:06 AM »
I came across a patent related to this study that gives this amount:  "the effective amount is 60 to 90 mg/kg body weight/day."  Sounds like ALOT, doesn't it it?

Here is the link:

http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20090011053

madbrain: considering your impressive numbers have you ever listed here on this site the various supplements you take? Just curious.

Thank you very much for that link, Inchingblue ! Interesting that the patent was filed in my backyard in San Jose, CA.

That seems like a whole lot of ginseng. Given that I weigh about 68kg, 60mg to 90mg/kg for me would mean taking about 4 to 6g per day, or about 8 to 12 of the 520mg capsules I have been using.

I was actually hoping to reduce my supplement capsules/pills per day, not increase it ! Maybe I need to pay to read the full study and figure out if this stuff is really worth taking or not. The fact that the patent mentions a 5 year duration seems like a red flag to me. I would want to know what kind of results the patients got in the study before that term.

Regarding my use of other supplements, I have used a ton of them and I continue to use many, too many, for several conditions, not just HIV. My list has varied quite a bit over time. It's very hard to tell what works and what doesn't when it comes to the HIV since I have no symptoms that I can definitely associate with it. I had good CD4 and VL numbers before I started taking supplements too. It is possible that it is my good genes that are helping with the HIV, and not the supplements. I am in an HIV controller study and they don't care about my use of supplements - I have told them about it, but they only care that I'm not on HAART and have great numbers to qualify. It could also be a combination of both genetics and the supplements helping with my numbers. It is just not possible to draw conclusions from experiments by one single person (me). That's why I seek to find double-blind placebo controlled studies when I choose the supplements to take or not take.

You can find the list of what I took for most of last year at http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=20699&st=0 . About half of them are in the initial post there, and I still take those. Some of the others are discussed in the thread. Please don't take any of them without asking your doc first, especially if you are on HAART or other medications as they can interfere.  Also note that some of the supplements I take are not for HIV but for other conditions, and the high dosages on some vitamins (like the D) are tailored for me, you may not need as much and it can actually hurt to take that much if you are not deficient. I'm no expert on any of this, just one person experimenting with supplements. No one else has ever been on the same supplement regimen that I have. If I didn't have good CD4/VL numbers to begin with, I would have started HAART already. And I will start HAART if the numbers get worse and I fall within the guidelines to start HAART. I am only using the supplements at this time in the hope that they will help me delay that time, since HAART is often not free of side effects and it is usually not safe to stop once you start it, unlike with the supplements.

I am more than willing to discuss the other supplements, but it probably should be done in the nutrition forum.

Offline Inchlingblue

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Re: Korea Red Ginseng -- it taste really disgusting.....
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2009, 05:54:32 PM »
madbrain: I love how organized you are ;)
I'm also not on meds yet and I actually take many of the things you have on your list in the link you supplied. My VL went from 18k to 7k the last two tests but it's hard to say if the supplements had anything to do with it. There are a couple of other things I'm taking now, such as Astragalus and NAC, but, as you mentioned above, it's probably best to discuss in the nutrition forum.

Re; the Korean Ginseng, I would not take such huge amounts as they mention in that patent, but I'll probably add it to my list (unless I go on meds first in which case I'm cutting out the supplements specifically HIV-targeted such as the two I mentioned above). As far as I'm concerned EVERYONE, poz or not, should take probiotics.......

 


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