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Author Topic: Statin Study shows risk of AE's  (Read 2529 times)

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Offline LTSurviver

  • Member
  • Posts: 117
  • LTS since 1987. LTNP until 2008.
Re: Statin Study shows risk of AE's
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2009, 10:19:50 AM »
Just an FYI:

Mercola is a quack of the highest order.  He is also a supporter of the HIV does not cause AIDS myth or AIDS denialism.

http://search.mercola.com/Results.aspx?q=hiv&k=hiv

He has no credibility whatsoever.


Offline bocker3

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,262
  • You gotta enjoy life......
Re: Statin Study shows risk of AE's
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2009, 11:32:50 AM »
Pretty much every drug available has the potential for adverse effects, so what is the point of this?  We keep seeing studies pointing out what a 'danger' drug A or drug B is -- but we miss the fact that many of these drugs have helped prolong life or at least a better quality of life.

I can tell you that my father is the first male in his family in generations to pass 60 years old.  Heart disease has been killing males in my family for generations.  The only real difference -- statins.  I've been on one for approx. 15 yrs and will continue.  If an "AE" causes me issues down the road, so be it -- the statin will have allowed me to reach that point.

I'm not saying that studies shouldn't happen or that we shouldn't be made aware of it -- but let's present ALL the facts and stop the fear mongering.  Sheesh.....

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline sensual1973

  • Member
  • Posts: 194
Re: Statin Study shows risk of AE's
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2009, 12:02:35 PM »
such articles only make me more terrified and scarred of whats heading my way.
i definitely dont want to see such posts in general.
God grant me the serenity to accept the things i can not change.

Offline Assurbanipal

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  • Posts: 2,173
  • Taking a forums break, still see PM's
Re: Statin Study shows risk of AE's
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2009, 01:13:55 PM »
Wouldn't worry too much about the Mercola article.  It sounded sorta weird (anytime an author talks about 700 studies rather than citing one peer reviewed study it's a warning sign).
It sorta sounded like a "cholesterol denialist"


As LTSurvivor pointed out, Mercola doesn't appear to read science on an unbiased basis and has a lot of HIV denialist stuff on his site too.

He's just not credible.
5/06 VL 1M+, CD4 22, 5% , pneumonia, thrush -- O2 support 2 months, 6/06 +Kaletra/Truvada
9/06 VL 3959 CD4 297 13.5% 12/06 VL <400 CD4 350 15.2% +Pravachol
2007 VL<400, 70, 50 CD4 408-729 16.0% -19.7%
2008 VL UD CD4 468 - 538 16.7% - 24.6% Osteoporosis 11/08 doubled Pravachol, +Calcium/D
02/09 VL 100 CD4 616 23.7% 03/09 VL 130 5/09 VL 100 CD4 540 28.4% +Actonel (osteoporosis) 7/09 VL 130
8/09  new regimen Isentress/Epzicom 9/09 VL UD CD4 621 32.7% 11/09 VL UD CD4 607 26.4% swap Isentress for Prezista/Norvir 12/09 (liver and muscle issues) VL 50
2010 VL UD CD4 573-680 26.1% - 30.9% 12/10 VL 20
2011 VL UD-20 CD4 568-673 24.7%-30.6%
2012 VL UD swap Prezista/Norvir for Reyataz drop statin CD4 768-828 26.7%-30.7%

Offline veritas

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  • Posts: 1,408
Re: Statin Study shows risk of AE's
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2009, 03:20:14 PM »

Mercola aside, I can't put my head in the sand when I read the following:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez       (type in statins 2009 in the box following for)

and these studies were reported in 2009.  I don't look at these studies as fear mongering, more so as information gathering. Everyone's reaction to medication is personal ( our hiv meds can attest to that). So to know as many  potential reactions to medication as possible could possibly save one's life. There is no question that statins lower cholesterol but to know their potential  side effects is crucial (ie: depletion of co-enzyme Q-10). Some of these dangers can be easily remedied.


Offline LTSurviver

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  • Posts: 117
  • LTS since 1987. LTNP until 2008.
Re: Statin Study shows risk of AE's
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2009, 04:43:17 PM »
Have you read the possible deadly side effects of the meds that keep us alive?

Offline bocker3

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  • Posts: 3,262
  • You gotta enjoy life......
Re: Statin Study shows risk of AE's
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2009, 07:59:48 PM »
Mercola aside, I can't put my head in the sand when I read the following:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez       (type in statins 2009 in the box following for)

and these studies were reported in 2009.  I don't look at these studies as fear mongering, more so as information gathering. Everyone's reaction to medication is personal ( our hiv meds can attest to that). So to know as many  potential reactions to medication as possible could possibly save one's life. There is no question that statins lower cholesterol but to know their potential  side effects is crucial (ie: depletion of co-enzyme Q-10). Some of these dangers can be easily remedied.


It is fear mongering when only the possible adverse effects are mentioned without discussing frequency and without mentioning the meds life saving potential.  I am all for being informed, but we must be TOTALLY informed - so that a cost/benefit analysis can be done.

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline Assurbanipal

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,173
  • Taking a forums break, still see PM's
Re: Statin Study shows risk of AE's
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2009, 08:20:03 PM »
It is fear mongering when only the possible adverse effects are mentioned without discussing frequency and without mentioning the meds life saving potential.  I am all for being informed, but we must be TOTALLY informed - so that a cost/benefit analysis can be done.

Mike

One of the papers that comes up from the original link provides some of the information needed.  The author conclusions (in 2006)

"Treating 1000 patients with a statin would prevent 37 cardiovascular events, and 5 AEs would be observed. Serious events (creatine phosphokinase >10 times the upper limit of normal or rhabdomyolysis) are infrequent (NNH = 3400) and rhabdomyolysis, although serious, is rare (NNH = 7428). Atorvastatin was associated with the greatest risk of AEs and fluvastatin with the least risk. Simvastatin, pravastatin, and lovastatin had similar odds of AEs. Nonurgent AEs such as myalgia and liver function elevations were responsible for approximately two thirds of AEs reported in trials. CONCLUSIONS: Statin therapy was associated with greater odds of AEs compared with placebo but with substantial clinical benefit. Similar rates of serious AEs were observed between statin and placebo"

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16490577?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=2&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed
5/06 VL 1M+, CD4 22, 5% , pneumonia, thrush -- O2 support 2 months, 6/06 +Kaletra/Truvada
9/06 VL 3959 CD4 297 13.5% 12/06 VL <400 CD4 350 15.2% +Pravachol
2007 VL<400, 70, 50 CD4 408-729 16.0% -19.7%
2008 VL UD CD4 468 - 538 16.7% - 24.6% Osteoporosis 11/08 doubled Pravachol, +Calcium/D
02/09 VL 100 CD4 616 23.7% 03/09 VL 130 5/09 VL 100 CD4 540 28.4% +Actonel (osteoporosis) 7/09 VL 130
8/09  new regimen Isentress/Epzicom 9/09 VL UD CD4 621 32.7% 11/09 VL UD CD4 607 26.4% swap Isentress for Prezista/Norvir 12/09 (liver and muscle issues) VL 50
2010 VL UD CD4 573-680 26.1% - 30.9% 12/10 VL 20
2011 VL UD-20 CD4 568-673 24.7%-30.6%
2012 VL UD swap Prezista/Norvir for Reyataz drop statin CD4 768-828 26.7%-30.7%

Offline veritas

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,408
Re: Statin Study shows risk of AE's
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2009, 05:22:10 AM »
Have you read the possible deadly side effects of the meds that keep us alive?

To answer your question: Yes I have read the deadly side effects of our hiv meds and have also been on the receiving end of some of those side effects. Those effects are what prompted me to start doing as much research as possible for  all the medications I'm taking.

So what is your point?

Assurbanipal -- thanks for replying. People get too emotional before reading the entire study and a lot of their answers are right there in front of them.

This forum is the research news and study forum. Your going to read in this forum research that will give you a lot of hope and research that will certainly give you pause. Take the information and draw your own conclusions. Act on that information based on being informed and in consultation. Don't be afraid of knowledge even if its' scary !

Offline LTSurviver

  • Member
  • Posts: 117
  • LTS since 1987. LTNP until 2008.
Re: Statin Study shows risk of AE's
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2009, 06:07:41 AM »
My point is there is no excuse for posting Mercola's quackery and allarmist-antimedicine nonsense.

He, like many AIDS denialists and homeopaths, take ANY report of AEs, no matter how isolated, and present that as proof that modern meds are bad and, rather than helpful, are actually the CAUSE of all our illnesses.


Offline bocker3

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,262
  • You gotta enjoy life......
Re: Statin Study shows risk of AE's
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2009, 07:53:51 AM »
To answer your question: Yes I have read the deadly side effects of our hiv meds and have also been on the receiving end of some of those side effects. Those effects are what prompted me to start doing as much research as possible for  all the medications I'm taking.

So what is your point?

Assurbanipal -- thanks for replying. People get too emotional before reading the entire study and a lot of their answers are right there in front of them.

This forum is the research news and study forum. Your going to read in this forum research that will give you a lot of hope and research that will certainly give you pause. Take the information and draw your own conclusions. Act on that information based on being informed and in consultation. Don't be afraid of knowledge even if its' scary !

I'm not an idiot -- I can read studies.  I know how to interpret information -- I have an MPH with a concentration in Epidemiology and Biostatistics -- so get off your high horse.

You are missing MY point -- I said that it is important to know the good and the bad in order to do your own cost/benefit analysis around taking a medication.  However, you come in here and post a couple of link with comments like "more disturbing" and "to know as many  potential reactions to medication as possible could possibly save one's life".  While I agree with those statements, you have not once pointed out the positive aspects of these drugs.  What this does is make people who don't or can't properly interpret the studies start to make ill-informed decisions based on fear.

All I'm asking is that the ENTIRE truth be told.

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline veritas

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  • Posts: 1,408
Re: Statin Study shows risk of AE's
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2009, 09:13:04 AM »
Mike,

I never called you an idiot. If I touched a nerve with you with respect to statins and your therapy,then I apologize. It was not my intention. When I started this thread, I knew it would be controversial since statins are prescribed so frequently.

My first words were "for those taking statins". If you are taking statins, I'm sure your physician explained why he was prescribing statins and what the benifits are. But, I bet he didn't mention potential side effects. The first link I posted contained those potential side effects along with the benefits. This link gave the reader a launching pad for further research should they be experiencing those AEs. The entire truth was told within the link. Maybe not in the way you would have liked to see it (along with a radical different point of view) but the truth was there.

veritas

ps: I don't like heights but I find confidence sexy.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2009, 09:52:40 AM by veritas »

Offline bocker3

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  • Posts: 3,262
  • You gotta enjoy life......
Re: Statin Study shows risk of AE's
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2009, 07:41:19 PM »
Mike,

I never called you an idiot. If I touched a nerve with you with respect to statins and your therapy,then I apologize. It was not my intention. When I started this thread, I knew it would be controversial since statins are prescribed so frequently.

My first words were "for those taking statins". If you are taking statins, I'm sure your physician explained why he was prescribing statins and what the benifits are. But, I bet he didn't mention potential side effects. The first link I posted contained those potential side effects along with the benefits. This link gave the reader a launching pad for further research should they be experiencing those AEs. The entire truth was told within the link. Maybe not in the way you would have liked to see it (along with a radical different point of view) but the truth was there.

veritas

ps: I don't like heights but I find confidence sexy.


You didn't hit a nerve around my therapy -- I'm quite comfortable with all the drugs I take -- and my doctors will ALWAYS discuss the pros and cons (i.e. possible adverse effects) of anything I take, because if they don't initiate it, I will.  Medical jargon doesn't throw me and I'm not afraid of "scary" information.  I worked in hospitals and laboratories for about 12 yrs (then I discovered that a for profit financial company paid me much better than a not for profit hospital).  For the record, the doctor that first put me on a statin 15 yrs ago, DID bring up the potential risks and what we should be looking for on his own.

The fact is that we are saying, basically, the same thing.  It's terribly important for people to be fully informed about any drug they take.  Risks should be weighed against benefits and a decision made on how to proceed. 

I am just trying to point out that one should never present only the good or only the bad.  What this thread has done, is focus on the "bad" (let's face it, many won't read the whole article, despite the name of this forum).  I'd hate to see someone stop a drug because they heard only half the story and weren't willing (or able) to research and understand the whole story on their own.  On the flip side, I'd hate for someone to take a drug without knowing what to look for in regards to adverse effects.

I haven't taken anything personally, nor have I meant for anything to be personal -- we aren't "bad" people.

Mike
(who also finds confidence to be quite alluring.....)
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

 


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