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Author Topic: Worried-not-so-well?  (Read 23211 times)

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Offline Gargamel

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Worried-not-so-well?
« on: August 04, 2006, 07:18:14 AM »
hey, Iīm worried and anxious. The reason:During a camping trip i got drunk and ended up in a tent with a girl i did not know, we never had sex, altough i fingered her. on my thumb i had a 2 mm wide cut. it was a couple of days old, but i had scratched it a little earlier the same day. I canīt rememer wether the thumb entered the vagina or not. If she had her period or not i canīt tell. The cut have healed but you can still see a kind of mark from it, after this experience, the cut still ached a little when i moved my thumb. I am 22 years old and a virgin, so this is one of my first sexual experiences. when i got hypocondric the next day, we talked a little, and it turned out i was her seventh. Her previous partner was a one night stand in south america where they used a condom a week earlier. But how can i trust a stranger? even a nice one. The days went by, and i got home. This was three weeks ago.
During the last weeks, i have felt rather numb in my right hand/ arm. Is this a common symptom? Perhaps itīs just the warm Texas climate. As i write this,  my throat is also a little sore. I have a thing going on with a nice girl who lives round myī block. I would hate to infect her. Is this even a possibility? Can i go on dating without feeling guilt? To go get tested feels a bit silly when it only comes to fingering, and i think the weeklong wait would just boost my anxiety. So please, help me.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2006, 04:22:40 AM by Gargamel »

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2006, 07:21:13 AM »
I urge you to read the Welcome Thread on this site, particularly the lessons regarding HIV transmission.

Fingering, cuts or no cuts, is absolutely NOT a risk for HIV.

As for your new girlfriend, if you use a latex condom for penetrative sex, you are protecting both of you from HIV. And until such time as you have decided on a mutually monogamous relationship, and have both tested negative, you should indeed be using condoms for penetrative sex.



"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Gargamel

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2006, 07:22:44 AM »
yeah.iīve read it, but it sayīs thereīs a theoretical risk.

Offline Gargamel

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2006, 07:28:03 AM »
I urge you to read the Welcome Thread on this site, particularly the lessons regarding HIV transmission.

Fingering, cuts or no cuts, is absolutely NOT a risk for HIV.

As for your new girlfriend, if you use a latex condom for penetrative sex, you are protecting both of you from HIV. And until such time as you have decided on a mutually monogamous relationship, and have both tested negative, you should indeed be using condoms for penetrative sex.

so i should test my self? even though "thereīs no risk"? testing myself would make this whole problem so much more anxiousfilled.




Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2006, 07:34:07 AM »
Yes, there is a "theoretical" risk. And a theoretical risk includes so many things in life that never happen but COULD happen.

Anytime you have sex of any kind with someone other than yourself there is a THEORETICAL risk that transmission could happen.

But we are telling you here what happens in the real world of HIV reality. And in that world you were not at risk in that situation.

You also need to know that becoming sexually active, as exciting as it can be, also usually stirs up anxiety about all sorts of what ifs and lots of nervous but but BUTs. I suspect that maybe an element in this situation.

In any case you were not at risk in this situaiton and there is no need for testing.

Cheers,
Andy Velez

Offline Gargamel

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2006, 07:36:57 AM »
Thank you for the calming facts,  but what about my numb hand/arm?

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2006, 07:38:49 AM »
yeah.iīve read it, but it sayīs thereīs a theoretical risk.

It also says:

Quote
there has never been a documented case of HIV transmission via fingering

My personal position on "theoretical risk" is that it's an exercise in scientific naval-gazing.

Without quantification, either in the lab, using primates/simians, or in the twenty-five-plus years of epidemiology, utilizing theoretical risk is, to be as kind as possible, an exercise in intellectual hubris.

In theory you might just be the very first person in the recorded history of the pandemic to be infected through this manner. Which would necessitate that

*you either posess a physiology that is different from almost any other human on the planet, or

*your partner carries a strain of HIV like none that science has ever seen, which is contagious rather than infectious.

On any given day, the earth is in the path of several kilograms of space dust, and several meteorites roughly the size of basketballs bounce off/are burnt up in the atmosphere. On at least three recorded occasions, people have been struck by meteorites.

And yet, there is more quantification for the odds of getting hit by a meteorite than there is of getting HIV through fingering.

I personally do not address the notion of theoretical risk because it slides from quantifiable science into scientific speculation. While intellectually stimulating, it offers zero real-world assessment, as none exists.


"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Gargamel

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2006, 07:41:58 AM »
thank you so much for your advice. I really appreciate it.  donīt take me wrong, but how can i trust you guys in this?

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2006, 07:57:56 AM »
Well, all our risk assessments and assertions are grounded in first-tiered peer-reviewed scientific quantification. Nothing stated on this site escapes scrutiny, and requests for quantification and sourcing is not uncommon.

You are going to have a hard time finding scientific study specifically regarding fingering, even in chimp/primate study, because one of the first discoveries regarding HIV was that it does not penetrate unbroken skin. And even broken/abraded skin provides significant protection against HIV and other lentiviruses. HIV demands certain specific cells in order to infect, and  only major trauma (such as amputation of the finger) would compel these cells to congregate, however briefly, at the site of the wound.

In addition, the fluids you come into contact with during fingering are NOT significantly infectious. The so-called "vaginal fluids" that are infectious to a significant degree are the deeper, cervical-uterine fluids. These fluids are not expressed from the body in sexual stimulation, but line and protect the interior of the cervical area. Penetrative vaginal/penile sex allows the urethra to come into contact with this thick mucousal fluid, which is why HIV infection can be passed from female to male.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2006, 08:44:31 AM »
As to your numb hand/arm, if that condition persists you should discuss it with your doctor. Which is what you should always do when you have persistent symptom.

Of course it has nothing to do with HIV, but right now you are (mis)interpreting everything through the mindset of HIV jitters. Even though you were not at risk.
Andy Velez

Offline Gargamel

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2006, 08:55:38 AM »
thank you so much. I appreciate and admire you both. so you would say that i can continue dating and living my life without worries (hiv-worries)?

Online RapidRod

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2006, 08:55:59 AM »
Ten to one there is sometime during the night that you sleep on your arm. Guess what that can cause numbness in both your arm and hand, or partial numbness in your hand. The list goes on and on.

Offline Gargamel

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2006, 09:03:06 AM »


In addition, the fluids you come into contact with during fingering are NOT significantly infectious. The so-called "vaginal fluids" that are infectious to a significant degree are the deeper, cervical-uterine fluids. These fluids are not expressed from the body in sexual stimulation, but line and protect the interior of the cervical area. Penetrative vaginal/penile sex allows the urethra to come into contact with this thick mucousal fluid, which is why HIV infection can be passed from female to male.


[/quote]

hmm...i went G-spot deep...

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2006, 09:05:59 AM »
Sorry, still no risk.

And having exhausted my research regarding HIV and fingering, I respectfully withdraw from conversation until/unless I discover anything new.

You had no risk.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Gargamel

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2006, 09:10:33 AM »
thank you. sweet of you to calm an anxious hypocondric. I wish you all the best. what do you base your research on? and what has Ann got to say about my worries?
« Last Edit: August 04, 2006, 02:39:35 PM by Gargamel »

Offline Gargamel

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2006, 03:43:08 PM »
Well, the Welcome Thread suggests that you should test yourself even though it was a low-risk activity. Is this a low-risk or a no-risk? And please, tell me what you base your facts on. You all seem to be HIV+ and i am impressed by your medical skills. But is anyone on the forum a doctor?

Online RapidRod

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2006, 03:58:24 PM »
I'm not a doctor I'm a paramedic. I don't think you'll find a doctor here, but you'll find that more of the people answering questions to be more qualified than most doctors. You still didn't have a risk by fingering, with or without a nick cut etc. Now if you don't trust us go get tested and collect your NEGATIVE result. I personally don't care, but I do know if fingering IS the only issue, you will get a NEGATIVE result.

Offline Morgan

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2006, 04:00:56 PM »
Gargamel,

Re-read this thread.  You have everything you need to know about this NO-RISK encounter.

Morgan
Morgan Landers

Offline Gargamel

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2006, 06:33:51 PM »
thanks morgan. It would feel very comforting if Ann could tell me everythingīs gonna be allright as well. :)

Offline Morgan

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2006, 07:10:15 PM »
Gargamel,

If you ask nicely, maybe she'll tuck you in and read you a bedtime story....  sorry, couldn't resist.   :D

Morgan
Morgan Landers

Offline sally

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2006, 01:39:13 AM »
Hi,
I'm hiv+ and I had unprotected sex with my husband for 4 years (obviously, I did not know I was infected). He did NOT get infected. Of course, there's theoretical risk. There's a theoretical risk that my laptop will explode any minute now or Secret Service agents will knock on my door because I've been dissing George Bush so much. As far as the numbness, I've been hiv+ for 24 years, diagnosed for 18 and I know a great deal about the symptoms, etc. The numb arm has nothing to do with the fingering. The best thing to do if your fears can't be assuaged or you're obsessing about it is to get tested. It's no big deal to get the test.

Offline Ann

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2006, 08:36:07 AM »
Gargamel,

I'm taking a short break from the forums, aside from a few administrative duties.

I won't tuck you in and tell you a bedtime story, but I will tell you this - you absolutely did NOT have a risk of hiv infection through fingering.

One thing you say concerns me though... you say you are worried about infecting your "nice" girlfriend. You need to know that when you do start having intercourse, you need to use condoms. You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL STIs together. To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with a sexually transmitted infection. I don't care who you have intercourse with, whether it's the girl next door or a highly experienced sex worker. You need to follow the guidelines I just gave you. As long as you use condoms, you will avoid hiv infection.

Have a look through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Gargamel

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2006, 03:09:00 PM »
Thank you Ann.  even though i donīt go so far as to put condoms on my fingers, i am a condomconsumer, and i believe in responsibility from both partners. again,thank you and take care.

Offline Gargamel

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2006, 09:17:50 AM »
btw,could i have aquired any other STDīs this way? can i calm down?

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2006, 09:53:16 AM »
This is an HIV site and that is our focus. As far as other STDs, there are some which can be passed through skin to skin contact. From what you have described of your incident I think it's unlikely that would have happened to you.

In general if someone is sexually active it's a good idea to get a full panel of STD tests done at least annually and every six months is even better. If you have symptoms which continue to concern you that is something to discuss with your doctor.

I don't see cause for concern in what you are reporting. What I do see is a continuing pattern of "just one more question," which from my experience is more about anxiety and other feelings than anything else.

 
Andy Velez

Offline Gargamel

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2006, 03:25:01 PM »
yeah, youīre probably right...iīm just frustrated. one last question though: does symptoms appear at the same time or in stages?

Online RapidRod

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2006, 05:05:34 PM »
They all come at once and leave at once. They don't dwindle.

Offline Gargamel

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2006, 07:19:22 PM »
so just sore throat and no swollen lymps or sweats would make me out of the question-infected?

Online RapidRod

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2006, 07:38:39 PM »
You didn't have a risk and all the symptoms in the world WON'T make you positive.

Offline Gargamel

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2006, 10:52:05 AM »
thanks. sorry to annoy you but other sites roundī the net are freaking me out.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2006, 12:39:32 PM by Gargamel »

Offline Gargamel

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2006, 03:41:32 PM »
why do other sites tell me that fingering with a cut is a way of obtaining HIV? Thatīs how i got hypo over this in the first place.

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #31 on: August 07, 2006, 06:22:40 PM »
I cannot answer for other sites. Some places have outdated information. Other places simply have an agends which is anti-sex. Some sites have corporate entanglements which dictate their exceedingly conservative tone.

What you get from this site is risk assessment based solely on first-tiered peer reviewed scientific information. Not much of an agenda here, unless you count quantifiable facts as an agenda.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Gargamel

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #32 on: August 08, 2006, 11:50:12 AM »
thank you. so should i take the test?

Online RapidRod

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #33 on: August 08, 2006, 11:52:16 AM »
Now how many time do we need to tell you that you didn't have a risk? What part of "didn't have a risk" don't you understand.

Offline Gargamel

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #34 on: August 08, 2006, 01:20:36 PM »
Now how many time do we need to tell you that you didn't have a risk? What part of "didn't have a risk" don't you understand.

iīm just insecure. should i trust the badly programmed page with pictures of african children on it, telling me fingering with a cut is a way of obtaining HIV, or the one where a guy with a photoshopped dog as an avatar tells me to relax. Internet is just so big and itīs hard to know who to trust. iīve also asked "dr. bob." but he hasīnt replied yet...

Online RapidRod

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #35 on: August 08, 2006, 01:32:43 PM »
Then sit back and wait on your 12/13 weeks and take the test. You don't want to believe us and you want to increase your anxiety by surfing the web, so just test get your negative result. But I doubt you will believe your negative result. So instead of doubting us, go test. It's your money.

Offline Morgan

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #36 on: August 08, 2006, 01:39:14 PM »
Gargamel,

How about the talking coffee mug??  "NO RISK".  If you're unable to accept our assessments, just wait for the 12/13 week mark and test out.

You've come here for informed opinions and you've received them.  It's up to you to accept or reject these opinions but, asking the same questions won't get different answers on this site.

Morgan
Morgan Landers

Offline mckynsay

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #37 on: August 08, 2006, 01:40:19 PM »
Gargamel,

I urge you to please read my entire post or do a search on fingering.  I fingered a woman on her period chewed nails and tested negative @ 6 weeks and 10 weeks.  It took me a long time to realize that I am negative.  Here's how you need to think about it.  What are the chances that this girl even had HIV?  (probably not good) OK, and even if she HAD Hiv, what are the chances that you would contract it in this manner (zero, since it is not transmitted in that way; but I'm with you).  Use this site as an educational tool, search others who went through the same anxiety as you and continued to test negative.  Cause it's not a risk.  Dr. Bob does NOT say fingering is a risk, people continue to use him out of context he states it is theoretical and that he's never seen it happen either.  Logically think about this, how would vaginal juice get into your bloodstream???

Please read my thread and look closely at J/K's post, he does a very in-depth research on fingering.  Best of luck to you.  I know the experts might be mad for me posting, I'm not hijacking, just trying to help someone who was just as anxious as I was.  I apologize.

Offline Gargamel

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #38 on: August 08, 2006, 07:32:12 PM »
thank you. itīs nice to know that iīm not alone in this silly worrying. i have had HIV worries before, most recent before this after getting bitten by a socially awkward surfer dude. but taking the test is just so scary, it makes the whole problem seem much more real than a mind-ghost. and the week of anxious wait, and the minutes before i get the answers is going to be a nightmare. am i overreacting?
« Last Edit: August 08, 2006, 07:41:49 PM by Gargamel »

Online RapidRod

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #39 on: August 08, 2006, 09:01:58 PM »
Are you over reacting? Just a little bit.

Offline Gargamel

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #40 on: August 09, 2006, 01:17:57 PM »
during a test, how much blood are we talking here?

Online RapidRod

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #41 on: August 09, 2006, 02:10:58 PM »
Oh hells bells, it might be a 5-10 ml vile or it could be a couple of drops depending on what kind of test. You are worried about giving blood for an HIV non risk test and I give 50 ml every three months.

Offline Gargamel

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #42 on: August 10, 2006, 09:11:07 AM »
yeah, i know. but can you guys assure me my health?

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #43 on: August 10, 2006, 09:26:43 AM »
yeah, i know. but can you guys assure me my health?

No we can't and we never said we could. We give advice over the internet. As such we are naturally conservative. I object to the tone of your last post and I suggest that you are fast wearing out your welcome.

Seek the assistance of appropriately qualified mental health workers.

MtD

Offline Gargamel

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #44 on: August 10, 2006, 10:30:27 AM »
man, thatīs rough.  iīm just obsessing a bit. of course you canīt assure me my health. stupid post. just worried tis all. letīs rearrange the question: "I am not in an HIV-risk, and i am worrying over nothing." do you agree?
« Last Edit: August 10, 2006, 10:32:08 AM by Gargamel »

Online RapidRod

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #45 on: August 10, 2006, 10:32:49 AM »
Yes!!!! Now move on with your life.

Offline Gargamel

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #46 on: August 10, 2006, 10:35:04 AM »
do you guys agree with RapidRod?

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #47 on: August 10, 2006, 10:36:27 AM »
man, thatīs rough.  iīm just obsessing a bit. of course you canīt assure me my health. stupid post. just worried tis all. letīs rearrange the question: "I am not in an HIV-risk, and i am worrying over nothing." do you agree?

Rough? Well yes. What did you expect from someone who styles himself as Matty the Damned, a cuddle?

You have had no risk for HIV. You are worrying over nothing. You are wasting our time and putting yourself through unncessary grief. At least have some respect for yourself.

MtD
(Who knows about Smurfs)

Offline Gargamel

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #48 on: August 10, 2006, 04:55:06 PM »
so thatīs it then? no risk.
Is every HIV infection documented? how can you otherwhise tell that it has never happened before? please be patient with me. iīm just worried, and i realize the sillines-level of this  ongoing thread. again, thank you for your patience.

Offline Ann

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Re: Worried sick. please help me out!
« Reply #49 on: August 10, 2006, 05:17:15 PM »
Gargle,

Instead of spending your time here posting questions, why don't you do some reading. There are plenty of threads on the subject of fingering and why it is NOT a risk for hiv infection, cuts or no cuts.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

 


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