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Author Topic: Can Anyone Explain This?  (Read 12617 times)

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Offline Desper84Beauty

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  • Posts: 8
Can Anyone Explain This?
« on: August 03, 2006, 03:21:08 PM »
Hi, I'll try to make this as brief as possible.

I am a bisexual man. 46 years old. Poz since early 90's. AIDS diagnosis in 1997.

I had absolutely no sexual conduct of any kind with anyone until I was 19. It was a women who I fell in love with and later married. We were totally monogamous, lived in a very small town, and it was still the early 80's.

We began experiencing difficulties in our marriage, not of a sexual nature, but, more of an age issue and growing in different directions. We amicably divorced about 5 years later.

I had always been attracted to both man and women, but was NOT promiscuous. I never had a one night stand. I never had any sexual contact beyond kissing with a person I wasn't in a relationship with. I was 28 the first time I even touched another man. We went out on a few dates and kissed. After about 2 - 3 months of this I let him perform oral sex on me. This happened about 8 - 10 times, and I was NOT reciprocating. He understandably wanted more and I wasn't able to give it to him at that time. We broke it off as I tried to deal with my sexuality.

I was celibate for 4 years.

During this 4 year period, I became very ill out of nowhere. Very high fever, acute sore throat---the sickest I'd ever been in my life. After about 5 days of feeling that ill I went to a NYC emergency room. By that time, my throat was so swollen I couldn't swallow my own saliva and had to spit into a cup. They admitted me at once and ran tests including an HIV test. Everything came back negative, I was given antibiotics intravenously and stayed in the hospital for 9 days. I was never given an official diagnosis beyond a severe case of strep throat that got infected.

I contacted my ex wife who was already remarried and had a baby. She flipped and was immediately tested. Thankfully, negative.

Then I approached the man I discussed earlier with whom I only received oral sex and he too was negative, and remains so.

In 1992 I met a man and fell DEEPLY in love. We began to date, and before either of us were willing to take it to the next level an HIV test was done. We both came back negative. I was the happiest I'd ever been. I thought I found "the one!" We performed oral sex on each other, but, RARELY had anal intercourse, me being the inserting partner ONLY, and ONLY with protection. No accidents or breaking. We were also monogamous but had a "follow up" HIV test done in 1994. Again, both came back negative. Due to personal reasons (not regarding sex) we split up. He went into the medical field and we stayed friends and saw each often. Luckily, he remains negative to this day.

About a year after our split I met someone else. It was a similar relationship to my first---oral sex only performed on me---nonreciprocal.

In 1996 I developed a rash on my chest that eventually started to climb up to my neck. Small, reddish and VERY itchy bumps. I consulted a dermatologist who did a biopsy. We tried lotions, antibiotic, OTC allergy meds....you name it. Eventually you suggested an HIV test as a "last resort....just to get it out of the way."

Long story short, I came back positive with 13 T-cells and a viral load of 550,000. The doctor told me those kind of numbers indicated that I had to have been exposed and infected many years ago....probably around the time of my hospitalization. I asked about previous tests and his only answer was to suggest that they were false negatives.

I have been celibate since my diagnosis.

My questions are;

Are false negatives that common?

Were they more common 10 - 15 years ago?

Can anyone who says you can't get HIV by receptive oral sex explain how I was infected?

I have talked with a couple of prominent doctors, and no one can give me a true hard answer.
Will I ever know?
Any comments, opinions or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance.

PS. I am on HAART. My T-cells rose to about 240 - 260, and my VL fluctuates from undetectable to under 10,000.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2006, 03:29:46 PM »
I've moved this thread here from the AM I INFECTED? section because I believe it would only cause unnecessary upset there.

I need to re-read what you have written before making any comment about the specific content.

Whatever the origin of your infection the most important thing now is for you to be getting the best appropriate medical care now to maintain your health. And that is overall what I suggest your focus should be on rather than solving the mystery of how your infection took place.

You're welcome here to discuss anything that is on your mind as well as to ask any questions related to health and treatment.

 
Andy Velez

Offline MSPspud

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2006, 03:38:31 PM »
I am sorry to hear you've tested positive, though it sounds like you're trying to push an agenda rather than look for support.  Best of luck in that.

Offline krakerjm

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2006, 03:58:12 PM »
Something is missing here on ur part;  perhaps U got stupid one night like many of us.  There is no guilt or shame, just reckoning with ones self.  I am gay and escaped HIV for many years doing reckless things cause I am a top: giver, not a reciever. Any reciever is at more risk.  You seem more concerned with ur sexuality than HIV; kinda late, don't U think.  Do what U have to do and move on; the facts can't be changed.
GWM, 63, PN w/footdrop
"I swear there ain't no heaven, pray ther ain't no hell"

Offline jack

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2006, 04:04:01 PM »
oh boy,this oughta be good for a little drama.

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2006, 04:36:29 PM »
Like thousands of HIV positive people you will never know. Dwelling and living in the past will make you crazy...your numbers are heading in the right direction, and I hope you are too. We are here to help if you want it.

Peace,
Hal

Offline TampaBob

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2006, 04:39:00 PM »
I'm not being a wise ass here, but this sounds like the "Immaculate Infection."

I did some research and from all i could find there is no 100% reputable report on hiv infection via oral sex only. Again, i may be missing a more recent update - im sure there are folks here who can find the info.

That said, ANY form of exchange of bodily fluids can - i repeat CAN - facilitate the transmission of the virus. However, from waht i have read, the "chemestry" of the mouth and all the pre-digestive enzymes and juices in teh mouth are NOT AT ALL the ideal environment for transmitting the virus. Now, yes, if you have had major mouth surgery or had a tooth pulled and have an open cut or such you would be at higher risk.

However, your post makes it seem like u had virtually NO "active" sexual contact and yet stil got hiv.

Have you ever received a blood transfusion? Have you ever taken recreational IV drugs? There ARE other ways of getting the virus besides sexual contact!

Offline kentb

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2006, 05:05:04 PM »
I'm sorry does the mode of infection elevate some of us over others?  I got mine the old fashioned way too many drinks, too many dicks.  None of which it does any good to regret.  Move on with your life.  The mode of transmission you present is missing something...
  In any event this is a great community to get support for the real issues of HIV.
Best of Luck!

from Kent who says "we're all in this together"

Offline ACinKC

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2006, 05:08:20 PM »
Put me FIRMLY in the IT DOESNT MATTER HOW AT THIS POINT camp. 

Spilt milk, water under the bridge and all that.....

I sense a hidden agenda here, however I will wait to pass judgement.
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline bobik

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2006, 05:44:10 PM »
Why is there a hidden agenda? I would be very puzzled if I were him too!

But it looks like we can't help you, Des! I don't understand it either.

Coen
Coen Honig at Facebook

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2006, 08:34:03 PM »
I absolutely wish I could help you, but my research is grounded in science. It looks like your experiences are outside that boundary.

I am glad you are doing better on meds. As I am sure someone else will say better, how you get here is ultimately immaterial. Thing is, you have HIV and you have found the best forum for information, discussion, and support online. How you choose to maneuver next is absolutely your call.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Eldon

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2006, 11:09:55 PM »
Hello Desper, it is Eldon. First of all welcome to the forums, John stated it perfectly that you are at the right place for support, there is a whole lot of information here.

I can relate with where you are coming from as to HOW you became HIV positive. That's a question that has been on my mind since I found out. But, the main thing is I moved on and accepted the set of circumstances which changed my life.

Focus on taking care of yourself, and getting the support you need from time to time.

Offline Life

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2006, 11:21:06 PM »
Desper, turn around, your facing the wrong direction...

Welcome to LIVING WITH HIV

Offline Desper84Beauty

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2006, 02:11:54 AM »
I would like to start by saying thank you to those that offered a welcome.
To those that are skeptical, I understand.

BUT, Wow, you guys got this all wrong!

Apart from a few encouraging words, shrouded in disbelief, I don't feel anything but judged, admonished and delusional.

Some of you are WRONGLY concentrating on my "sexuality confusion," (dealt with a Looooong time ago...yes, I'm just another example of a gay man "claiming he's bisexual because he hasn't come to terms"...whatever I say sarcastically...face it, I'm bisexual---I like dick and pussy, just not casually...which I'm not saying is right or wrong...everyone has their own sexual path)
---The way I'm handling the diagnosis (very well---it's barely an issue anymore...I have great doctors and my AIDS diagnosis doesn't define me or the way I live my life outside the bedroom)
---That I'm living in the past, (again, completely inaccurate)
---I'm on some sort of denialist trip! Wrong!
I am only trying to raise my level of knowledge from others experiences as I share mine with them.
I don't covet knowledge.

Truth be told, I just found your site today, and signed up when I began reading responses to comments under the "Am I Infected" content. It seems that plenty of people were questioning the "safeness" of oral sex, and your administrators were telling them that there was ABSOLUTELY 0% chance of becoming infected as a receptive oral sex partner. I was kind of shocked at the statement as few things are 100% or so finite. There is risk involved in everything we do, not just who we sleep with, share needles with or get transfusions from. That's what prompted me to tell my story.

I DON'T have an agenda....again something that was referenced by more than a few.

I placed my original post under that heading...being a newbie to this site, and was immediately attacked for not doing anything for the group but, I quote, "scaring the shit out of people!" Andy didn't move this post, I copied and pasted it here myself after I was scolded. I thought this was a forum to discuss, among other things, opinions, treatments and support. I simply told my story as it happened. EXACTLY as it happened. I didn't include intimate details of my life to be judge or psychoanalyzed, but, rather to express another opinion, which apparently doesn't fly with the lemmings who follow the precious few who Administer and/or moderate this board.

In answer to the rest of your open minded readers....

I'm not implying mine was an "immaculate infection," as one of your readers sarcastically referred. I don't know how I was infected. I thought someone could offer CONSTRUCTIVE advice. Clearly someone from my past isn't telling their whole truth. I only went into such detail as to explain my sexual activity so that people would understand that my only sexual experiences were as a receptive oral partner in the timeline of infection given to me by my doctor.

I *HAVE* moved on with my life. I was diagnosed in June 1997. I've accepted it as just another part of my life. I'm in a stable relationship with my partner of ten years who is negative. We were committed to each other before my diagnosis, and when I found out my status, our sex life quickly changed. They became uncomfortable with insertive sex. Although it can be challenging to be celibate, we maintain a strong, intimate bond that means more to both of us. Intmacy is more than sex.

I too have read all the reports claiming 0% chance of transmission in the manner I described, and no I didn't get drunk and have a wild blacking out, walking up in some strangers bed experience.

I don't think there is a right or wrong way to be infected. That would be the most reprehensible thing I could imagine. I feel NO shame along with this disease, and neither should anyone else!

Poster, Jack, you sound like you want to *start* the drama!

Poster, AC says, "I sense a hidden agenda here, however I will wait to pass judgement." Stay true to your word and pause a second before making that remark.

Poster, MSPspud, aren't you preaching to the choir?

Anyway, it all boils down to the fact that I believe HIV CAN be passed through receptive oral sex, as I believe I'm living proof, although "undocumented" as one poster put it! How is one documented anyway? My only wish is that your administrators were a bit more cautious to say, "In my opinion, there is very little risk, probably less than 1%, but even in science nothing is 100% all of the time, so be careful and if you slip get tested. But, I applaud them for their firm stand, and request their respect me for my personal experience.

Thank you!



Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2006, 02:37:54 AM »
Des,

I don't think anyone was trying to disparage you, but I too have difficulties with the suggestion that HIV can be transmitted via receptive oral sex. It just doesn't stack up.

But what of it? You're HIV positive and I think that should be sufficient for all of us. There is considerable support to be had in this place. I'd take advantage of that if I were you.

Regards,

MtD

Offline Jeffreyj

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2006, 03:50:09 AM »
I think there are rare cases where u MIGHT be able to get HIV from oral. The guy giving it to you would have to have had an open soar with blood oozing out...Then Maybe....correct me please if I am wrong but there is a CHANCE, if it's one in a million, its still a chance.
As far as the false poz...That sounds much more likely. My wife had a fp in 1984. It happend several times in the 80's and early nineties. The tests have since been greatly improved and are much more accurate. So I would venture to say that the false positive would be a much more likely culprit here.
Glad you are doing well.
I was found poz in "84. I told my family in 1999. It always has amazed me to this day that, although I told them individually(my Dad, and 3 older brothers) The first question was HOW DID YOU GET IT?
I
That is human nature I guess...The "why" of it all. At the end of the day, I feel, what difference does it make. Jesus that really pisses me off to this day...It would have been nice if just one of them said..."Are you OK?
Positive since 1985

Offline Optimistic

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2006, 03:57:25 AM »
Desper,

I think it is very possible to contract HIV from oral sex.  The chances may not be high, but if one has a cut in the mouth and the receptive area, HIV can definitely be transmitted.  Just because someting is not documented doesn't mean it cannot happen.  After 25 years, we still have very limited knowledge of the disease, otherwise a vaccine would have been developed by now.  When I read medical journals, scientists and researchers always mention about new insights to the disease...I have met others who have been in a similar situation as you.  I don't see any reason for them to lie about it, afterall they have accepted that they are positive and are contents with their lives.  It is unfortunate that you contracted the disease the way you did...but I am glad to see that you are able to move on with your life.  As to any insights regarding the chances of you catching the virus under your circumstances, the only thing I can say is maybe there was a cut somewhere that you didn't notice and that your partner could have been HIV poz, but did not tell you the truth.

Justin
12/06 (Atripla): cd4 - 260; cd% - 33%; vl - 169
1/07 (Atripla): cd4 - 267; cd% - 38.1%; vl - 132
4/07 (Atripla): cd4 - 373; cd% - 33.9%; vl - <50
7/07 (Atripla); cd4 - 287; cd% - 35.8%; vl - <50
9/07 (Atripla); cd4 - 356; cd% - 39.5%; vl - <50
12/07 (Atripla); cd4 - 517

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2006, 04:46:01 AM »
That's the thing with blanket statements like:

Quote

I think it is very possible to contract HIV from oral sex.


Are you referring to performing fellatio?
(this is receptive oral sex)

Are you referring to receiving fellatio?
(this is insertive oral sex)

Are you referring to performing cunnilingus?
(this is receptive oral sex)

Are you referring to receiving cunnilingus?
(this is insertive oral sex)

Of all the above four sexual acts (all of which are "oral sex," only the first one, performing fellatio, carries anything even CLOSE to a quantifiable risk.

The poster in question claims to have been infected not from swallowing semen, but rather from having oral sex performed on him.

Which is as close to 100% impossible as HIV science can purport. It's right up there with getting HIV from kissing.

I am not trying to come down harshly on the poster. Not at all. But his choice for his first post was to ask the board if we can explain this assertion.

Scientifically speaking, insertive oral is no riskier than kissing. And the poster, though he used the term "receptive," meant "insertive" in the body of his post.

Receptive oral is a vanishingly small risk, and would appear to require some extraordinary circumstances to accomplish.

Insertive oral?

Not an HIV risk.

Since the original poster had read the forums before posting, I assume he realized that he was going to be getting off on a rather contentious foot by such an introduction. I certainly think that, given the incendiary nature of such an assertion, the responses so far have been extremely diplomatic and reasonable.

*edited for typos



« Last Edit: August 04, 2006, 05:34:48 AM by jkinatl2 »
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

tendai

  • Guest
Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2006, 05:28:14 AM »
maybe u got it from something else thats not sexual then :-\

Offline David_CA

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2006, 08:02:54 AM »
You know, the likelihood of winning the PowerBall lottery is something like 1 in 80,000,000 (according to a quick Google search).  If I ask "I bought a lottery ticket; will I win?", I think it'd be safe to say probably not.  What if I said "I bought a lottery ticket and won several million dollars" (and had a check to prove it), would I be lying?  No.  When somebody says they got infected with HIV by an 'unlikely' transmission method, why do we have to argue with them?  Perhaps they did.  Perhaps they didn't.  Statistically, one won't get the bug from getting a blowjob; one won't likely get it from giving a blowjob either.  To win the lottery, there only has to be ONE in 80,000,000. 

Instead of telling these folks that they did not become infected by oral sex, maybe we shouldn't be so quick to tell them they're wrong, lying, or in denial.  Maybe we should say something like 'Wow, that's usually a fairly safe thing (HIV-wise); you sure beat the odds on that blowjob!'.  That still conveys the FACT that one most likely won't become HIV+ from oral sex to those WW's and general public who might be reading without alienating the poster who states how they contracted HIV.

Statistically, I shouldn't be HIV+ either... but I am.  A little compassion goes long way.

David
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2006, 08:11:55 AM »
David, I understand. And I do not make it a point to confront people on this side of the forum with HIV transmission vectors. However, the original poster DID solicit the discussion directly by this thread.

I think it would be less compassionate to ignore the question asked, than to engage him with as much diplomacy and dignity as possible.

*edited to add

The issue you raise, why it's important to question, well, questionable assertions, is a valid one. I submit that two things this site offers are support and information. Sometimes the two are incompatible, like when someone comes to the forum with HIV denialist assertions. At that point, even if they are indeed HIV positive, their assertions must be addressed and, in many cases, refuted if the integrity of the forum is to be upheld. At the point where a person with, say, HIV denialist assertions is warned, or even banned, we are withholding support in favor of scientific credibility. At the very least, and under the most lenient circumstances, we ask for quantification of the assertions.

I would be a total hypocrite if I give risk assessment on the "fears" forum that contradicts what I say on this one. So often, I disengage from conversation rather than coming across as accusatory. But if someone wants to make an assertion that, if valid, necessitates the rewriting of aidsmeds.com's lessons, isn't it imperative that we discuss it?

Even if it's uncomfortable, even if it's a "sore subject?"



« Last Edit: August 04, 2006, 08:23:01 AM by jkinatl2 »
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline kcmetroman

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2006, 08:23:03 AM »
Hey Desper-8

I think JK is on here.  Had you come in "NOT" asking the question, and stating that while being bi, you are morally upright.  That was cool.  You ASK the question then refute the responses, well......

People were trying to explain it, or better yet understand it.

I for one could give a flying shit HOW you got it.  I just welcome you to the hotel.

Offline David_CA

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2006, 08:34:43 AM »
You're right, JK.  Your posts weren't really the ones that prompted me to write that.  You did reply to him "... with as much diplomacy and dignity as possible."   I was also thinking back to a previous post where the member caught hell from saying he could have only become infected by oral sex.

David (who's hoping - against all likelihood - for a cooler day in NC)
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline AIDS2HIV

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2006, 10:07:37 AM »
i call it bullshit....
Its the future of Hiv Education, and Resources www.aids2hiv.com      Got Community?

Offline ACinKC

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2006, 10:22:26 AM »
It sounds to me like you are having other issues about things.  I only say this in response to what you wrote

Apart from a few encouraging words, shrouded in disbelief, I don't feel anything but judged, admonished and delusional.

Some of you are WRONGLY concentrating on my "sexuality confusion," (dealt with a Looooong time ago...yes, I'm just another example of a gay man "claiming he's bisexual because he hasn't come to terms"...whatever I say sarcastically...face it, I'm bisexual---I like dick and pussy, just not casually...which I'm not saying is right or wrong...everyone has their own sexual path)
---The way I'm handling the diagnosis (very well---it's barely an issue anymore...I have great doctors and my AIDS diagnosis doesn't define me or the way I live my life outside the bedroom)
---That I'm living in the past, (again, completely inaccurate)
---I'm on some sort of denialist trip! Wrong!



With the only exception being living in the past (which most people didn't say you were living in the past, but rather to concentrate on your health and continue to move forward, its all WE can do), NO ONE questions your sexuality, or that you are a denialist!  Not that it matters AT all but I would consider myself a bisexual, and have NEVER been condemned on this site.  Only welcomed.  But i also did NOT come in swinging.  Which it seems to me you are.

I said I would wait to pass judgement and I TRIED to stay out of this, but I think its unfair to YOURSELF for your intro to this site to start like this.  It's not an accusatory, judgment passing, name calling, kind of place!  UNLESS you make it that way.  And you have.

I accept you for WHO YOU ARE, you are a brother in arms against a common enemy!  I love you for WHO YOU ARE, your past or how you contracted our "gift" matters not to me.  Let it be that way for you as well. 

We welcome those who need us!  I sense you do, I say to you in all honestly I AM HERE FOR YOU!  Lets move on and talk about tomorrow!

Andrew
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2006, 10:33:24 AM »
Des,

Seriously, listen to Andrew. He speaks good magic on this.

MtD

Offline Moffie65

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2006, 10:44:45 AM »
WHY?

Is this thread....
Is this new poster yelling in bold only...
Are we once again discussing oral transmission...
Hasn't the poster told us if he is circumsized or not...
Are we engaging this person when it is more than obvious that this post/thread was meant to be incendary...
Is the original poster trying desperately to "form" thought, rather than to "seed" it...

So many questions, so little time.

I would advise this man to try to move on, and start to Live with HIV.  I also don't undersand his very defensive description of his sexual proclivities.  I don't give a twit if a person is Bi, Gay, Straight, or in fact if they like screwing their dog; this has nothing to do with HIV, and to see such defensive posturing, suggests to me that this man has some deep seated issues around his sexuallity.  Can we not accept that fact that the world is "sexual" and just get on with it???  I realize that in his second response, he tried to clarify, but ended up just confusing the issue and screaming that everyone is wrong, and he is the only right one here.  Globally, this site is read and participated in, by literally thousands of people who are sucessfully living with HIV, and have no problem about transmission questions.  I humbly suggest that this poster strive to do the same.

In Love and Support.
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline jack

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #27 on: August 04, 2006, 11:23:32 AM »
Let me first say, I don't think you can get hiv from receiving a blow job. Maybe if the blower had an open bloody sore on his lips and blowee had open sore on his deal, maybe, maybe.

I have to disagree with those who state science is on their side. Results from polls or questionaires is not science,it is anecdotal at best. The only real way to say if you get hiv from performing oral sex on a penis is by having groups of HIV+ individuals getting head on a regular basis from HIV- negatives who would then swallow. There could be no other type of sex involved. Results from this type of test would be based in science and would be credible. This also means the people would have to refrain from all sex outside of the test.

If you have hiv, the least of your problems is how you got it. When asked this question Drs. or by people running trials, I like to respond "take a wild fucking guess", of course I never do.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #28 on: August 04, 2006, 11:27:41 AM »
Let me first say, I don't think you can get hiv from receiving a blow job. Maybe if the blower had an open bloody sore on his lips and blowee had open sore on his deal, maybe, maybe.

I have to disagree with those who state science is on their side. Results from polls or questionaires is not science,it is anecdotal at best. The only real way to say if you get hiv from performing oral sex on a penis is by having groups of HIV+ individuals getting head on a regular basis from HIV- negatives who would then swallow. There could be no other type of sex involved. Results from this type of test would be based in science and would be credible. This also means the people would have to refrain from all sex outside of the test.

If you have hiv, the least of your problems is how you got it. When asked this question Drs. or by people running trials, I like to respond "take a wild fucking guess", of course I never do.


Jakey,

You're a known member of the abstinence brigade, which has long been rejected as an effective method for preventing the transmission of HIV, because the majority of people don't have your Bush inspired Will of Steel when it comes to the in and out thing.

I suggest you bow out of the debate.

MtD

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2006, 11:43:48 AM »
Quote
The only real way to say if you get hiv from performing oral sex on a penis is by having groups of HIV+ individuals getting head on a regular basis from HIV- negatives who would then swallow.

Like here?

Quote
Over 19,000 instances of unprotected oral sex did not lead to a single case of HIV transmission amongst a cohort of 135 HIV-negative Spanish heterosexuals in a sexual relationship with a person with HIV. The study, conducted between 1990 and June 2000, is reported in the June 2002 edition of AIDS and adds to the growing number of studies which suggest differing levels of risk of HIV transmission from oral sex when compared to anal or vaginal intercourse.


http://www.aidsmap.com/en/news/2AF5DF5C-ECEF-4854-80BA-09F86B483A02.asp


Or here?

Quote
Dr. Page-Shafer, from the University of California San Francisco, and colleagues collected data on 239 MSM who had engaged exclusively in fellatio in the past 6 months. The median number of partners over that period was three, 98% had engaged in unprotected fellatio and 28% had a partner who was HIV-positive.

No case of recent HIV infection was detected, the researchers report. Dr. Page-Shafer's team calculates that the estimated population-attributable risk percentage for HIV ranged from 0.18% with one partner to 0.31% with three partners.


http://www.aidsmeds.com/news/20021125epid004.html


Quote
HIV infection through receptive oral sex is a very rare event—statistically our study showed a probability of zero—and is rarer than HIV infection through receptive anal intercourse using a condom," said the study's lead author Kimberly Page Shafer, PhD, MPH, assistant professor of medicine at UCSF's CAPS.

That's just the quick N dirty search, most relevant to your criteria.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline ACinKC

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #30 on: August 04, 2006, 11:55:06 AM »
I just LOVE facts!

Thank you for ALL that you do Johnathan!

PS
How do you keep your sanity over there on the fears forum?
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline jack

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #31 on: August 04, 2006, 12:12:23 PM »
jonathan, on the surface the spanish test seems ok. The article says no one got hiv from blowjobs, it doesn't say if any of the participants were now hiv + that were hiv- when they started. If no one got hiv then I guess you can s tand on the results.
The other test seems to be just a questionnaire.
How do you prove that there are only blowjobs and they aren't using protection in any of these studies?
You all can call me a liar and denialist but I know what I didn't and did do and I am hiv+. Weren't those "denialists" in The big lebowski?
Maybe I was just a lightning strike.

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #32 on: August 04, 2006, 12:33:48 PM »
The Spanish study was actually more controlled than the Page-Shafer one.

The way the studies were designed makes patient reliability and self-report irrelevant. The patients reported that they did not use condoms for oral sex, yet they reported that they used condoms for penetrative anal and vaginal sex.

Based on that criteria, ANY new infections detected in the time period of the studies could be argued to have an oral basis, even if other factors (condom breakage, et al) had also been reported.

WHat's happened is that ZERO new infections have been reported. These studies make two compelling points. One is to the efficacy of condoms when used correctly and consistently for penetrative vaginal and anal sex. The other is the lack of any infections despite regular unprotected oral sex.

How do we prove that people in the studies did NOT use condoms for oral sex? Unless the participant's goal was to specifically sabotage the experiments, there is absolutely no gain in professing to have unprotected oral sex. These studies were designed specifically to eliminate the reliability factor of anecdotal reporting by using it from a negative perspective (no new infections reported in sero-discordant couples) rather than a positive report (recently diagnosed patients' self-report as to unprotected sex).

And as I mentioned, to date in both these studies and other reports by Page-Shafer and Romero, there is no way to quantify oral sex because they have yet to quantify it as a vector.

http://adr.iadrjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/19/1/152

You will note that in the Page-Shafer report here:

http://www.aidsonline.com/pt/re/aids/fulltext.00002030-200211220-00022.htm;jsessionid=GT0FbfDqLhNwBTLGJyHGHt3QJTLdjnl0CVn2bBGBZJykttGfWxBR!-1082563917!-949856145!8091!-1?nav=search&searchid=null

the participants of that study were all men who came to the clinic in SF for HIv testing, who reported protected anal/vaginal sex, no needle sharing/IV drug use, yet admitted (I hate phrasing it like that) to having had receptive oral sex without a condom. The setup for this study skewed the natural inclination of patients to misremember or inaccurately recount their sexual activities, as it used as a benchmark people who claimed to have had protected anal/vaginal, yet unprotected oral sex.

Were there ANY new infections detected in the study, followup interview would have been initiated to assist in determining the mode of transmission, which would possibly taint the study with the broad brush of anecdotal evidence. However, it is important to note that there were ZERO new infections in the study period, which rendered unnecessary any followup interview or speculation.

Jack, I urge you not to take this discussion personally. It's not about calling anyone a liar. It's like you said, about moving the scientific model away from anecdotal evidence and towards a quantifiable, mathematical model. Tracking down recent infection relies on patient report. Following patients over time does so as well, if new infections emerge.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Joe K

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #33 on: August 04, 2006, 02:20:54 PM »
Hey Des,

I'm only going to welcome you to the forums and encourage you to use the resources here as you see fit.  Personally, I don't care how you got infected and I'll leave the science arguments to those who are much better at it than I am.  All I can ask is why do you think it is so important to know how you were infected and why are you so adamant about getting this forum to validate your assertion that you got HIV through insertive oral?

I suggest you move on, because we don't have the energy to argue improbable issues and to be honest, none of this should matter to you at all.  That's just my opinion.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #34 on: August 05, 2006, 12:04:33 PM »
You may not be satisfied with the responses you have received here. That does not entitle you to begin the same subject thread in other Forums such as the one for those who have just tested positive.

I have deleted that thread. Please don't begin new threads again in this manner.

Nuf said.
Andy Velez

Offline Desper84Beauty

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #35 on: August 12, 2006, 07:39:00 PM »
You may not be satisfied with the responses you have received here. That does not entitle you to begin the same subject thread in other Forums such as the one for those who have just tested positive.

I have deleted that thread. Please don't begin new threads again in this manner.

Nuf said.

I began this subject in "Am I Infected?" because I was new and this was my first post. Besides, at the time of my post there was a lot of talk about oral transmission in that thread. I was flabbergasted by your administrators admonishing people as if there was NO chance---100% proven---that you could get the disease by being the oral receptor.

I just wanted to tell my story. a much different point of view.

I was immediately attacked by members saying, I quote, "You are doing nothing but scaring the shit out of people."
I copied and pasted the post to this forum, and have NEVER posted another thing under ANY other thread!!

My intention was to tell my point of view and open up communication...not be judged.
As far as "being unsatisfied," I really don't care that much. A few people contacted me personally; and a few offered advice throughout the tread. I appreciate the support.  Most just criticized, ridiculed and judged. I can still respect their views on other topics without agreeing with them about this one.

***PS. I apologize for using bold print. I didn't know it was shouting. Like I said, I'm new here.***

"Nuf said"

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #36 on: August 12, 2006, 07:48:57 PM »
Des,

I'm sorry but people just don't contract HIV in the manner that you claim to have. It doesn't happen. I'm not doubting that you're positive, but I don't accept for a moment that you got HIV from receiving a blow job.

You can draw from that what you will.

MtD


Offline bobik

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #37 on: August 15, 2006, 06:36:42 PM »
This is not the first time someone here claims to have catched HIV from oral sex. In the period I have been here it happened 3 times (including my own posting concerning my infection). And I am a member for just over 6 months.

This is not looking back. This is living with. It is an important issue because it affects how I behave sexually. Not because I think that getting infected one way or another makes one a better HIV patient. That is just bullshit. But I still am afraid that I infect someone if I get a blowjob.

So obviously things happen that have not been explained by science yet. One can send me 100 research reports but I know I have only had oral sex in the years when I could have catched my infection. Why should I lie about that.

Maybe yes, it is a very frightening thought that there is a small chance that one can transmit HIV by oral sex. But by getting angry about that you punish the messenger.

I have met several men who claimed to be infected by oral sex. I have no reason to believe they lied about that to me. Maybe it is an idea to start facing that there are some men who say they catched HIV by oral sex and do research on what they have been doing exactly. Then maybe we would identify factors that could cause danger. Than maybe we could prevent some of those very few infections that seem to happen.

Obviously this is an item. When three people post a thread like this on our forum in 6 months, I think there is something to think about.

I would be very happy if I could identify the risk, and allow people to suck me off without being afraid to infect someone. As long as people keep on telling the guys who claim to have been infected this way that they have a hidden agenda, nothing will happen except people throwing rotten eggs to each other.

Coen

Coen Honig at Facebook

Offline kentb

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #38 on: August 15, 2006, 07:54:34 PM »
In defending my slutty honor I would just like to go on record and say that:
1. I never blacked out from drinking too much,
2. I never woke up in a stranger's bed, however my house was at one time like a weigh station, in and out... quickly!

I will give you credit some of the tricks were strange, but that's another story.
All joking aside it doesn't matter how you were infected you have the ability to make great use of the resources here, and yes we do all disagree with one another from time to time and I would encourage you to enjoy your life with your partner and be happy for today.

Kent

Offline ds4146

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #39 on: August 15, 2006, 09:04:33 PM »
Wow! Trust has been an issue with me for a very long time, and so I wanted to put that out there first. But as a new member if you will, I am little amazed at the negative responses and will certainly consider that before addressing, asking for assistance, or adding what I had hoped would be a helpful response. Perhaps we should be a little bit less judgemental and more understanding! We are after all in the same boat, without the paddles!

Offline getbusyliving

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #40 on: August 15, 2006, 09:33:54 PM »
So once again Jo (killfoile) says it all - and let me repeat - it doesn't matter how you were infected.

What does matter is that you are taking care of yourself.  Aren't these drugs wonderful that they are keeping us all alive?  Did you have a good today?  "Can't we all just get along?" 

Just let this thread (that has become negative) die right here.  All I am saying is give peace a chance!

Now DES, welcome and go out and getbusyliving or as the case may be keepbusyliving.

I decided it was either time to get busy living or get busy dying.

120304 diagnosed cd4 26 vl 30,000.
012305 started meds - Reyataz, Norvir, Truvada
06xx05 simply undetectable
07xx06 cd4 202 vl 94
0507 cd4 198 vl undetectable
today - feeling strong

Offline Rightbrain

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #41 on: August 15, 2006, 10:23:02 PM »
I think if any member adresses any concern to them, it should be recognized as a concern for them.  We have no right to invalidate someones feelings or questions just because they aren't something we deal with.  Many of these kinds of responses keep me ambivalent to these forums.  I try to remember that while many here may have socialization issues, there are many who can respond (or have the sense not to respond) with sensitivity and maturity.  I completely see your concern.  Even if you are (which you've clearly indicated that you're not) living in the past or dealing with sexuality issues, we need to support you and encourage you through these issues that may not belong to us individually because they are affecting you.  I'm embarrassed by the "welcome" you've recieved.

brother joe
If there's a cure I hope I can have all the leftover Sustiva.

Offline Desper84Beauty

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #42 on: August 16, 2006, 04:56:18 PM »
Wow! Trust has been an issue with me for a very long time, and so I wanted to put that out there first. But as a new member if you will, I am little amazed at the negative responses and will certainly consider that before addressing, asking for assistance, or adding what I had hoped would be a helpful response. Perhaps we should be a little bit less judgemental and more understanding! We are after all in the same boat, without the paddles!

I would not post if I didn't have a thick skin. I can take the criticism and judgements.

After joining a few days ago, I have had a lot more time to look over other subjects, contents and posts. Like any forum, generally there is good, practical advice, and more than a few with a compassionate ear. However, there are a few know it all's, who's agenda is to spew bitterness and create drama and conflict. It's just the nature of the beast. I thought I was reading misinformation and wanted to add a different perspective. I'm sorry if this subject is apparently exhausted. I just wanted to tell my story and experience and possibly get some new judgement free insights and get help for others in similar situations. Clearly, I'm not alone.
I would warn you to keep an open mind, and not lose yourself. Don't spend too much time reading this forum (or any other) as you will burn out, and potentially become "over-informed."

There are other excellent groups you can join through Google, MSN, Yahoo and other mail services. Some are more willing to look outside the box. I highly recommend PozHealth@yahoogroups.com


I think if any member adresses any concern to them, it should be recognized as a concern for them.  We have no right to invalidate someones feelings or questions just because they aren't something we deal with.  Many of these kinds of responses keep me ambivalent to these forums.  I try to remember that while many here may have socialization issues, there are many who can respond (or have the sense not to respond) with sensitivity and maturity.  I completely see your concern.  Even if you are (which you've clearly indicated that you're not) living in the past or dealing with sexuality issues, we need to support you and encourage you through these issues that may not belong to us individually because they are affecting you.  I'm embarrassed by the "welcome" you've recieved.

brother joe

Thanks Joe, but don't be embarrassed by your brothers and sisters. I understand that these forums are filled with many types of personalities, and some are better at showing their compassion than others. I very much appreciate your support.


Poster Kent, thanks and keep the humor coming.


Poster Moffie, yes, I am circumcised.


Des,

I'm sorry but people just don't contract HIV in the manner that you claim to have. It doesn't happen. I'm not doubting that you're positive, but I don't accept for a moment that you got HIV from receiving a blow job.

You can draw from that what you will.

MtD


What's the purpose of your post? Hasn't it been CLEARLY established that I'm a liar and denialist with an agenda that I feel "entitled" (Andy) to push? Did you just feel the need to turn the knife one more time? I know what happened in my life---I have NO reason to lie, and I stand by my experiences. You can draw from that what YOU will.

David_NC really said it best! Thank you! He seems to understand what I'm trying to say. Just read his post time stamped 5:28 am, and without going into the detail I did, he articulated a very similar message.

In closing I'd like to say, just because I don't have the same opinion with the majority about ONE subject [the possiblity of HIV transmission as an oral reciever] does not mean I'm the type that intentionally stirs up factionalism or sedition or is even an agitator. I just think people should hear everyone and respect their individualism. I'm totally creating seed for thought. Here is my case...here is my experience...here is my truth......Let's talk about it....judgements aside, please.

Thanks!


Offline Desper84Beauty

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #43 on: August 16, 2006, 05:00:02 PM »


PS, there is a bright side----if you want to call it that. Someone sent me a personal message which contained information that I found very interesting. In today's highly groomed obsessed lifestyle it is entirely possible to nick or cut your penis (or anything else) by trimming, clipping or shaving. A small cut on your (inserted) penis + an unseen open wound in the mouth of the receiving oral partner = possible HIV transmission. When was the last time you asked the trick to open wide---for an oral exam anyway??!

Offline ACinKC

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #44 on: August 17, 2006, 10:42:53 AM »
Des,

Let it go. 

In closing I'd like to say, just because I don't have the same opinion with the majority about ONE subject [the possiblity of HIV transmission as an oral reciever] does not mean I'm the type that intentionally stirs up factionalism or sedition or is even an agitator. I just think people should hear everyone and respect their individualism. I'm totally creating seed for thought. Here is my case...here is my experience...here is my truth......Let's talk about it....judgements aside, please.--Des

You ask us to talk about it, and then you rail against our opinions.  You ask us to HEAR everyone and respect individualism but you refuse to accept those that have a different opinion about your aquisition of the gift!  You dont have to agree, just acknowledge that science has said otherwise.  Science has said alot of things that have proven to be the opposite.  HOWEVER, I am of the belief that you cannot aquire HIV via felatio, I repect the fact that this is the way you may have become positive.  I say MAY because in your case you can never be sure.  My case is much the same in this manner.  However I was a slight "slut" for a LONG period of time, I may never be sure just as to WHO left me with this lovely parting gift. 

As for your PM from "someone", it doesn't happen that way.  I would let JK and the others post on this but this horse has been beaten enough and I feel they would be wasting their breath.

Why are you still stuck on the transmission issue?  You can't move forward if you stay stuck on that issue, I know you say you have moved on but your posts indicate to me otherwise.

As soon as you stop stirring the pot the soup will settle and you can begin to consume all that is available to you here.  The nourishment this site provides is unlike any other I have personally come across.

I beg of you, put the spoon down and let the soup sit.  It tastes much better, and it will fill you up with the love and support I think you need.

Andrew
« Last Edit: August 17, 2006, 10:48:39 AM by ACinKC »
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline bobik

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #45 on: August 17, 2006, 10:46:00 AM »
Hi Andrew,

For me it is important. If I could be proven to be wrong about my idea of how I was infected I would be able to enjoy a blowjob much more, I am still afraid. That is a living with issue.

Coen
Coen Honig at Facebook

Offline ACinKC

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #46 on: August 17, 2006, 12:41:39 PM »
Fair enough.  I live with the science in my head so i don't think about it when my sweetie is playing the slobbering blues on the old BONAPHONE! so I will not pretend to know your struggle.  Hopefully one day it wont matter as it will be cured! 
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #47 on: August 17, 2006, 02:34:15 PM »
Desper84Beauty, I don't really care how you think you got your exposure, but it's time for you to fucking shut up about it and move on. So you're positive big deal. How about the rest in this forum? You don't think they are here because they are negative? Now if you came here for support, how about shutting up for a while and listen. We don't care that you are bisexual, straight or gay it doesn't matter. Just move on.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2006, 04:19:11 PM by RapidRod »

Offline Desper84Beauty

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  • Posts: 8
Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #48 on: August 17, 2006, 02:41:28 PM »
Andrew, I chose the word "somebody" because it was sent PRIVATELY, so I am maintaining that persons anonymity. Again, you (and many others) using quotation marks are sending a not so subtle messages that my statements, opinions and beliefs come from the desire to agitate or to propagate an "agenda."


The main thing that bugs me the most, is how a few of you couch anylists take a FRACTION of what I said, and decide what is the nugget of information that you will all attack. In my case, you've collectively decided that my life is a dismal mess because I can't (or won't) get over how I was infected with this disease. Couldn't be farther from the truth! I have an amazing partner, great friends, a wonderful team of doctors, and an active social life. I own my apartment and have a car, I watch soap operas. I bake brownies. Normalcy is coursing through my veins!!

I feel like I keep repeating myself over and over!! I was asking for discussion in my first post. I did hope to find enlightenment. I expected some disbelief. What I didn't expect was the amount of animosity I got, especially at first.

PLEASE UNDERSTAND THIS HAS BLOWN WAY OUT OF PROPORTION. MY POSTS #2 - #5 WERE NOT RAILING OTHER PEOPLES FACTS OR BELIEFS, BUT, RATHER THE VICIOUS TOUNGED MANNER IN WHICH THE MESSAGES WERE DELIVERED, ESPECIALLY TO SOMEONE NEW TO THE BOARD, AND NOT ENTIRELY FAMILIAR WITH ALL THE PERSONALITIES! I AM SAYING THIS BECAUSE MY SKIN IS THICK, BUT, PERHAPS, OUT THERE LURKS MANY OTHERS WHO ARE AFFRAID TO COME FOWARD ONLY TO BE TREATED WITH THE SAME CRUELITY OR SHARPNESS. YOU ALL GO ON ABOUT ALL THE LOVE ON THIS BOARD, BUT, IF I WERE JUDGING ON FIRST IMPRESSIONS LOVE WOULD BE ONE OF THE LAST WORDS ON MY LIST. APPARENTLY BY READING SOME OF THE POSTS I AM NOT ALONE.

I'm NOT railing against anyone except perhaps the blatantly rude.
I have heard everyone and respect their opinions. I just request the same in return.
I've read the scientific reports. I question them. I always will. That's my right. Most scientific people probably would, otherwise what is the point of research?
I have received positive feedback for which I'm thankful.

Look, I worked too hard to get sane, so if you'll excuse me, I'm going to baste the turkey and hide the kitchen knives.



Offline Desper84Beauty

  • Member
  • Posts: 8
Re: Can Anyone Explain This?
« Reply #49 on: August 17, 2006, 02:51:26 PM »
Desper84Beauty, I don't really care how you think you got your exposure, but it's time for you to fucking shut up about it and move on. So you're positive big deal. How about the rest in this forum? You don't think they are here because they are negative? Now if you came here for support, how about shutting up for a while and listen. We don't care that you are bisexual, straight or gay it doesn't matter. Just move on.

WOW! Now I REALLY feel the love![/color]

THE PERFECT EXAMOLE OF WHAT I JUST SAID!

When was the last time I said anything in a post about being bisexual?
Who said anyone cared? Do you have an issue with it?
Clearly, you've been following this thread. If you didn't like the direction go on to the next one.
Sounds like you need a little anger management, or do you have trust and control issues too?
At least I don't have to resort to name calling and profanity to get my point across.

Thanks for laying another brick in the wall!!

Love is in the air, it's everywhere you look around! LOL!!

 


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