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Author Topic: Rick Warren to give inaugural invocation  (Read 3805 times)

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Offline Tim Horn

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Rick Warren to give inaugural invocation
« on: December 18, 2008, 09:11:23 AM »
Divisive, homophobic Saddleback Church minister Rick Warren has been invited to give President Elect Obama's inaugural invocation.

HERE'S WHAT HE HAS TO SAY ON GAY UNIONS:

Rick Warren: But the issue to me is, I知 not opposed to that as much as I知 opposed to the redefinition of a 5,000-year definition of marriage. I知 opposed to having a brother and sister be together and call that marriage. I知 opposed to an older guy marrying a child and calling that a marriage. I知 opposed to one guy having multiple wives and calling that marriage.

Steven Waldman: Do you think, though, that they are equivalent to having gays getting married?

Rick Warren: Oh I do.

This certainly doesn't represent the "change" I voted for. So I've let Parag Mehta, Obama's LGBT liaison on his transition team, know my feelings on the matter: parag.mehta@ptt.gov.

Next up, a letter to the larger Obama transition team. Also won't hurt to contact the Joint Congressional Committee on Inaugural Ceremonies as well: Senators Dianne Feinstein, Harry Reid, Bob Bennett, and Representatives Nancy Pelosi, Steny Hoyer and John Boehner.

Tim Horn

Online RapidRod

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Re: Rick Warren to give inaugural invocation
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2008, 11:24:33 AM »
Obama's explanation of why Rick Warren was asked to speak was a total farce and a complete reversal of the statements he has made about gay issues in the past. Looks like we're going to have another flip flop president.

Offline woodshere

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Re: Rick Warren to give inaugural invocation
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2008, 02:35:14 PM »
I was going to contact Ms.  Mehta, however I tried to copy and paste the address, don't want to use work email, I got notice that there was a problem with the recipient address.  Am i doing something wrong
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline Tim Horn

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Re: Rick Warren to give inaugural invocation
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2008, 02:55:22 PM »
Wood:

Not sure what that's about -- perhaps Mr. Mehta's inbox is full and no longer accepting messages? Keep trying or place a call to the Obama transition team: 202/540-3000. There's also no harm in firing off a basic letter to the Congressional members serving on the inauguration committee.

Unfortunately, as Rod points out, it's unlikely that Obama has already offered up a reason for his steadfast support of Rick Warren to deliver the invocation. Idealistically, I was hoping that the Obama administration would mark the beginning of the end of the general pandering to a (hopefully) waning importance of "religious leaders" as political guides. I just hope that this particular inauguration selection isn't a sign of things to come over the next four years.

Tim Horn

Offline Jody

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Re: Rick Warren to give inaugural invocation
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2008, 03:04:27 PM »
Tim...Perhaps people can also contact: www.change.gov which is the website for the Obama transition team.

Jody 
"Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world".
 "Try to discover that you are the song that the morning brings."

Grateful Dead

Offline Tim Horn

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Re: Rick Warren to give inaugural invocation
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2008, 03:27:50 PM »
Jody:

Absolutely. One of the links I provide in my original message will take people directly to the "contact us" page of change.gov.

Tim

Offline woodshere

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Re: Rick Warren to give inaugural invocation
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2008, 04:19:04 PM »
Here is my little note I sent to several of the above mentioned contacts:

It is with much disdain I learned that President elect Obama has chosen Rick Warren to give the invocation at the inauguration next month.  During the Campaign Senator Obama said time and again that it was time to end politics as usual.  I agree.  I also agree that  when discussing and implementing policy it is important  differing viewpoints be represented.  However this is not a policy discussion regarding gay and lesbian issues, but a celebration, a celebration now tainted for those of us who are gay and lesbian thanks to the choice of Rick Warren to participate.  I am sure a more appropriate choice could have been made rather than choosing someone who supported the approval of Prop 8 in California.

It appears that Senator Obama should have been saying during the campaign that he wanted to end politics as usual, unless you are gay or lesbian.



Now that I have given it more thought I wished that I had mentioned the fact I am a deacon and the importance faith plays in my life, plus my strong belief in religious tolerance.  Oh well I am sure there will be plenty of time for that.
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline allopathicholistic

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Re: Rick Warren to give inaugural invocation
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2008, 08:35:35 PM »
It was on CNN a few minutes ago. The experts say Obama will not back down and change the person, or he'll start off as the "pushover President"

But yes, continue to make your voices heard

Offline Oceanbeach

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Re: Rick Warren to give inaugural invocation
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2008, 11:29:02 PM »
Hey Tim,

Many people who are willing to send letters to government officials may have a fear of not knowing what to say.  It would be a benefit if you would post a sample letter for each of the links you have provided.  ;D  Have the best day
Michael

Offline AlanBama

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Re: Rick Warren to give inaugural invocation
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2008, 11:43:28 PM »
I was not a bit happy about his choice.

I will also contact the transition team regarding my feelings on this.   I hope and pray it was just a "bad choice" and not a deliberate move to show us his true feelings about LGBT citizens.

 >:(

PS- I planned to lay out of work on Inauguation Day so I could watch on TV -- I may rethink that.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2008, 11:49:22 PM by AlanBama »
"Remember my sentimental friend that a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others." - The Wizard of Oz

Offline Robert

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Re: Rick Warren to give inaugural invocation
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2008, 01:20:28 AM »

Maybe my thinking is just too simplistic on this but no one, and I mean no one, has done more for my own personal and  mental well being in the last 8 years than Barak. I owe him big time for what he has accomplished and I'm not going to let some preacherman and his arch rivals get me all bent out of shape. 

I don't agree with this pastor's beliefs, but I do support Obama.  We have to build a bridge within this country. If you want change and dialogue you have to have everyone in the same room at the same time.

robert

robert
..........

Seadickrun

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Re: Rick Warren to give inaugural invocation
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2008, 09:25:13 AM »
Why does the inauguration even need an invocation?

I don't expect Obama to do one thing for the LGBT community.  The Democrats pay lip service to gay rights each election but then seem to forget about us until the next election.  They are confident that we won't vote for the Republicans and just take us for granted.  If Obama has actually delivered on Gays in the Military by Christmas '09, I will continue to vote for Democrats in the 2010 election.  If not, I will bust my ass for the Green Party to replace my congressman and senator. 

Kinsey said that about 10% of the population is gay.  The Jewish population is about 2%.  Its about time that politicians kiss gay ass about five times as much as Jewish ass and that will only happen if we quit giving our vote for nothing in return.  All three Democratic candidates clearly stated that they are against gay marriage.  I don't care why they said it, they said it.  If we want to see equal rights, we need to quit supporting the two party system and get behind a different party and get them elected.  Its time for the Repubs and Dems to go the way of the Whigs and Tories.

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Rick Warren to give inaugural invocation
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2008, 09:44:28 AM »
The experts say Obama will not back down and change the person, or he'll start off as the "pushover President"

I agree. I think it would be worse for him to change the person at this point. It would make him look reactionary and spineless. Obama was very clear he didn't support gay marriage and Rick Warren is very popular so I'm not surprised by his choice. That said, I think letting Obama know that the LGBT community is not happy with his choice is the right thing to do so he might consider our interests in the future.

Seadickrun

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Re: Rick Warren to give inaugural invocation
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2008, 10:32:56 AM »
That said, I think letting Obama know that the LGBT community is not happy with his choice is the right thing to do so he might consider our interests in the future.

I've thought about sending Obama a pair of old shoes with pink shoelaces to express my disgust. 

Offline allopathicholistic

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Re: Rick Warren to give inaugural invocation
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2008, 01:44:51 PM »
Why does the inauguration even need an invocation?

Interesting question. I guess it's a standard thing?  ??? (Does anyone here know? I don't watch inaugurations) But if I were Barack I would choose Rick Warren too. Early on and even now there was  "whispering" (speculation) about Obama's connections to Islam. Solution = Rick Warren (to win the hearts of those "whisperers")

I'm not saying the above is 100% true. It's just a possibility.  :-\


Kinsey said that about 10% of the population is gay. 

And we also have the friends of dorothy. PFLAG for example

bust my ass for the Green Party to replace my congressman and senator. 

Green, gay and poz rolled into one might be super cool


we need to quit supporting the two party system and get behind a different party and get them elected.  Its time for the Repubs and Dems to go the way of the Whigs and Tories.

LOL @ Whigs and Tories :D  :D



Offline northernguy

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Re: Rick Warren to give inaugural invocation
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2008, 11:14:08 PM »
Obama made a (bad) judgement call by calculating he has more to gain by throwing the GLBT community under the bus with this one.  After all, where can left-leaning Yanks go, other than than to the Dems?  At least we've got two left-of-centre parties up here (3 if you live in QC) so you can switch if one pisses you off.
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Offline md

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Re: Rick Warren to give inaugural invocation
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2008, 02:00:13 AM »
Why does the inauguration even need an invocation?

Absolutely!

I find it completely inappropriate and deeply offensive that a religious address by anybody (let alone someone like Rick Warren)  be part of the inauguration in the first place.

Offline J.R.E.

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Re: Rick Warren to give inaugural invocation
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2008, 02:23:58 AM »
Maybe my thinking is just too simplistic on this but no one, and I mean no one, has done more for my own personal and  mental well being in the last 8 years than Barak. I owe him big time for what he has accomplished and I'm not going to let some preacherman and his arch rivals get me all bent out of shape. 

I don't agree with this pastor's beliefs, but I do support Obama.  We have to build a bridge within this country. If you want change and dialogue you have to have everyone in the same room at the same time.

robert

robert


I have to agree with Robert on this.  While I am certainly not happy AT ALL with Obama's decision on this, I will continue to support him. I also put too much time and effort into this.

However, I am still going to make my disapointment/disgust,  with this decision known. Ed and I will be writing letters, along with a few of our friends.


Ray
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
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http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

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Seadickrun

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Re: Rick Warren to give inaugural invocation
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2008, 06:18:06 AM »
This put a smile on my face.  Its not just the LGBT community that is opposed to Warren.

We Call on You Lord: Leaked Rick Warren Invocation  (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/linda-hirshman/we-call-on-you-lord-leake_b_152476.html

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Rick Warren to give inaugural invocation
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2008, 08:24:18 AM »
This is a very serious breach of faith on Obama's part. He still has time to correct this mistake. If he gets his macho/bigotry up and refuses to do so, it will be a serious betrayal of the hopes of many, and not just gays -- but of all those to whom he has promised hope and new beginnings.
Andy Velez

Offline maddalfred

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Re: Rick Warren to give inaugural invocation
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2008, 09:26:50 AM »
My question would have to be that Rick Warren himself has to be aware of the controversy surrounding this issue, so what is preventing HIM from bowing OUT? >:(
<img src=http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj56/maddalfred1959/Me.jpg>

Offline David_CA

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Re: Rick Warren to give inaugural invocation
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2008, 10:05:56 AM »
Perhaps this will be the only 'concession' towards the extreme conservatives that Obama makes.  If so, then it's OK with me, not fine, not good, but merely OK.  I say that because I'd rather have this 'tip of the hat' towards those who'd rather see us just disappear (or worse) than somebody similarly minded appointed to a position where they can really do us harm. 

Remember, extreme conservatives are citizens of this country, too.  As much as we may despise them, they often despise us.  An effective president has the 'enviable' (not!) position of satisfying us and appeasing them, too.  Many GLBT's are not religious, churchgoers, etc.  Many of the conservatives are.  An appointee to give an inaugural invocation that's religious in nature probably means more to those who are like-minded... ie are religious conservatives than to those who are atheist, agnostic, or just don't bother with religion.  An extreme liberal would likely not appeal to those folks, so why not give them somebody who they will like?  It's not like Obama has appointed this man as head of some diversity position.

We can criticize every move Obama makes and never be happy with him as president.  Or, we can hope (or pray) that he does right for us and keep issues that effect us in his mind daily.  Think about it; what will having Rick Warren do to harm 'our' cause? 

I'm not saying that I'm happy with this choice or that I have blind faith in Obama (or anybody, for that matter).  I'm just trying to look at this in a practical way thinking of what could Obama do to show the conservatives that their opinions / beliefs count, too?  As a 'unifier', he pretty much has to appeal to all of us, which means that all of us will be unhappy with his decisions at some time.  Maybe letters and emails to the Obama folks should acknowledge him having to do something to please conservatives (and our displeasure with that), but that we have faith in him looking out for us where it really counts.

David
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Offline red_Dragon888

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Re: Rick Warren to give inaugural invocation
« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2008, 04:02:53 PM »
I'm waiting for Obama's first openly gay appointment.

Ok, Hillary, tells us the truth and make us proud!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I3ba3lnFHik

哲either look forward where there is doubt nor backward where there is regret. Look inward and ask not if there is anything o

Offline allopathicholistic

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Re: Rick Warren to give inaugural invocation
« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2008, 04:45:06 PM »
My question would have to be that Rick Warren himself has to be aware of the controversy surrounding this issue, so what is preventing HIM from bowing OUT? >:(

1. Wants to be part of history
2. Egotism and/or the furthering of his public image
3. Gets his jollies being the center of the controversy
(N.B.: All of the above are possibilities, not facts)

But on some snowballs chance in hell if Rick Warren bowed out on his own, that would be kind of classy I think. Slim chance on that.

Seadickrun

  • Guest
Re: Rick Warren to give inaugural invocation
« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2008, 05:26:02 AM »
I guess Obama doesn't go to church anywhere.  If I were looking for someone to pray over my inauguration, I would have chosen my own pastor first.  Obama sat in Rev. Wright's church for 20 years until the election and then threw the Rev. under the bus.  If he's going to toss out a 20 year relationship so quickly, he's not going to think twice about me...or you.  Obama is clearly against gay marriage and until I see him do something solid for the LGBT community, I don't want to hear his fancy speeches telling me he is for equality.  He got my vote for economic reasons only but I'm pretty sure that in 2010, I'm voting third party across the board.  My congressman is up for reelection and so is a senator. 

I'd apply for Canadian citizenship tomorrow if I thought there was any chance they would take me. My countrymen have made it clear my entire life that they hate me and that I should just hide in the closet.  Unfortunately, the closet is pretty full already with Republican Senators from Idaho and Evangelical Pastors from Colorado Springs, etc., so there isn't much room left for me. 

Offline mecch

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Re: Rick Warren to give inaugural invocation
« Reply #25 on: December 21, 2008, 04:16:12 PM »
Well i suppose Farrakan or Sharpton would have been even worse choices. hehehe
擢rom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need 1875 K Marx

Offline Merlin

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Re: Rick Warren to give inaugural invocation
« Reply #26 on: December 22, 2008, 03:30:20 AM »
I personally believe that Obama did not make a mistake as some here may like to think. Everything in politics is calculated. He has a team of people and advisers to catch him at every step. It's all about the popular vote and wanting to seem inclusive. Warren is not the only preacher there; There is another preacher, Rev. Joseph Lowery, that is pro GLBT rights. And he's giving the benediction at Obama's inauguration. So to Obama, the balance is achieved, although Warren is the more influential of the 2 religious pastors.

My choice has always been Hiliary. Dun get me started. :D
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Offline newbernswiss

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Re: Rick Warren to give inaugural invocation
« Reply #27 on: December 22, 2008, 08:06:55 AM »
I have to agree with DavidNC on this one.  You wrote just what I was thinking David.  My thought has always been, it's best to keep friends close, but keep your enemies closer...

Offline David_CA

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Re: Rick Warren to give inaugural invocation
« Reply #28 on: December 22, 2008, 09:40:28 AM »
I personally believe that Obama did not make a mistake as some here may like to think. Everything in politics is calculated. He has a team of people and advisers to catch him at every step. It's all about the popular vote and wanting to seem inclusive. Warren is not the only preacher there; There is another preacher, Rev. Joseph Lowery, that is pro GLBT rights. And he's giving the benediction at Obama's inauguration. So to Obama, the balance is achieved, although Warren is the more influential of the 2 religious pastors.

My choice has always been Hiliary. Dun get me started. :D

Thanks for that info, Merlin.  I didn't realize that somebody else was giving the benediction; I guess I just didn't pay any attention to the Bush inaugurations!   ;) 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/18/obamas-talking-points-on_n_152056.html...

Quote
Stressing his own advocacy of equal rights for gay and lesbian Americans, the president-elect raised a relevant anecdote from his biography as a defense.

"A couple of years ago I was invited to Rick Warren's church to speak despite his awareness that I held views that were entirely contrary to his when it came to gay and lesbian rights, when it came to issues like abortion," he said. "Nevertheless I had an opportunity to speak, and that dialogue I think is part of what my campaign's been all about, that we're not going to agree on every single issue, but what we have to do is to be able to create an atmosphere where we can disagree without being disagreeable, and then focus on those things that we hold in common as Americans."
Also, from the same link as the quote above...
Quote
The Inauguration will also involve Reverend Joseph Lowery, who will be delivering the official benediction at the Inauguration. Reverend Lowery is a giant of the civil rights movement who boasts a proudly progressive record on LGBT issues. He has been a leader in the struggle for civil rights for all Americans, gay or straight.

And for the very first time, there will be a group representing the interests of LGBT Americans participating in the Inaugural Parade.

The rest of the article is a good read, and I'd advise others to read it.  It describes the points where Obama (and many of us, most likely) agree with Rick Warren and also those points where there's strong disagreement.  I think it's important for us to step back a bit and look more at the big picture here... and tell the whole story (about the LGBT folks in the parade, Lowery, etc).  Otherwise, we look more like the Conservatives with their 'selective' reporting of issues.

David
« Last Edit: December 22, 2008, 09:44:42 AM by David_NC »
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Offline David_CA

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Re: Rick Warren to give inaugural invocation
« Reply #29 on: December 22, 2008, 09:57:50 AM »
Read the comments that follow this opinion:  www.huffingtonpost.com/lee-stranahan/embrace-what-you-have-in_b_151976.html

I especially like this one:
Quote
Obama isn't playing religion. He's not about getting your beliefs perfect and converting everyone else to them and then waiting for that to produce a perfect world.

The only thing pure about the guy is he's a pure politician. He sees everything not as right or wrong but whether it will make things better or worse than they were, a step in the right direction or a step in the wrong direction. He's an effects and outcomes artist.

And I think the effect that he's after here is to get a few 100,000 right wing wack jobs who might otherwise be praying down fire and brimstone on the inauguration, to get off their knees and turn on their TV. Every percentage point of bigotry that is relaxed by people actually watching and getting a feeling he ain't quite as evil as they thought, gives the new govt. a little bit more political room to manoeuvre. That's what Obama is about. Nothing he does is just show. Every opportunity he gets is about political advantage. You could say he is a veritable Warren Buffett of political capital. Never wastes a chance to make some, never squanders any, doesn't despise it no matter where it comes from, plays the long game.

Obama cares about you personally, because he's a liberal kind of guy. He doesn't give a crap about you politically, because you're in his pocket already. And that's the kind of leader who can achieve the most for you
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Offline aztecan

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,394
  • 29 years positive, 57 years a pain in the butt
Re: Rick Warren to give inaugural invocation
« Reply #30 on: December 22, 2008, 10:39:41 AM »
My knee jerk reaction was similar to others here: We have been betrayed by Obama.

But, after more reflection, I am more prone to believe this is one way for Obama to reach out across the chasm and try to build a more unified nation.

No, I don't like the idea of Rick Warren being given such a high profile. But it beats having someone like Jerry  Falwell or James Dobson.

We will go through some tough times during the next four to eight years. That is a given. But they will be made even tougher if we cannot find a way to work together.

Obama balanced the act by adding the Rev. Joseph Lowery to the inauguration list. Lowery is a liberal who supports gay rights, etc., so Obama really was being inclusive rather than divisive.

For the past eight years, we have had a deeply divided nation. We are in a recession (depression) that will take years to get out of, we are witnessing an economic hemorrhage of jobs and businesses as the greedy CEOs move off shore for greater profits, while jobs and financial solvency are lost here in the U.S.

We are looking blithely on while our environment is destroyed. We must reinvent our energy use, another tall order.

Healthcare in the U.S. is in ruins, unless you have the money to pay for your care. Some sort of socialized medicine is needed, but how?

We are fighting wars in two countries, costing us billions of dollars a month. We must find a way to end these wars, sooner rather than later.

I could go on, but I think you get the idea.

There are many, many things we must overcome, that President-elect Obama must try to end or overcome.

Is the choice of which bible thumper speaks at the inauguration really that important?

Billy Graham once called for the castration of all gay men, yet he spoke at Bill Clinton's inauguration without this firestorm of protest.

If I were going to get on a soap box, I would probably call for a real change - no Christians at the inauguration. After all, many in our nation are Muslim, Jewish, Wiccan, Buddhist, Hindu, etc. Why are these people being marginalized?

But I digress.

I believe we must step back and look at the big picture, not knit pick the minutia, if we are going to get this nation moving again.

HUGS,

Mark




"May your life preach more loudly than your lips."
~ William Ellery Channing (Unitarian Minister)

Seadickrun

  • Guest
Re: Rick Warren to give inaugural invocation
« Reply #31 on: December 26, 2008, 12:46:09 AM »
The Warren issue is gaining some steam. 

Warren-Endorsed Nigerian Archbishop Backed Anti-Gay Laws Worse Than Pre-WWII Third Reich's

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bruce-wilson/warren-endorsed-nigerian_b_153412.html

Offline GSOgymrat

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,009
  • HIV+ since 1993. INTJ
Re: Rick Warren to give inaugural invocation
« Reply #32 on: January 13, 2009, 09:19:36 AM »
So now I read that the first openly gay priest ordained by a major Christian denomination will deliver the invocation at the kickoff inauguration event Sunday at the Lincoln Memorial. How many religious ceremonies are going to be at this thing? Will there be a sacrificial goat too? Clearly Obama's team is trying to cover all the bases.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/01/12/openly-gay-bishop-to-deliver-first-inauguration-event-invocation/

 


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