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Author Topic: Once again, the Drug companies prevail...  (Read 3171 times)

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Offline J.R.E.

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Once again, the Drug companies prevail...
« on: December 16, 2009, 06:51:17 PM »
Amendment To Allow Drug Importation Fails In Senate



http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Daily-Reports/2009/December/16/Drug-Importation.aspx


 Health Costs, Politics, Health Reform

Dec 16, 2009

A bipartisan plan to allow Americans to buy cheaper prescription drugs from suppliers in other countries, such as Canada, failed Tuesday in the Senate. The Wall Street Journal reports the two top supporters of the plan, Sens. Byron Dorgan, D-N.D., and John McCain, R-Ariz., said shopping overseas via the Internet and mail-order companies could save consumers up to $80 billion over a decade if their amendment were added to the health overhaul legislation. Drug makers had opposed the bill. The Journal reports: "In June, the industry agreed to put up $80 billion over 10 years to support a health overhaul, including steps to improve drug coverage for seniors in Medicare, provided they wouldn't be asked for further contributions to the cost-cutting effort. The deal continued to hold up in the Senate Tuesday as the drug-importation measure opposed by the industry fell short." It failed by a vote of 51-48, nine votes less than the 60 needed to approve the amendment (Mundy, 12/16).

Bloomberg reports, "Proponents said the plan would have allowed pharmacies, wholesalers and consumers to buy medicines made by U.S. companies sold at lower cost in other nations. Drugmakers, who have to contend with foreign health systems that regulate prices, said they need the open market in the U.S. to thrive and warned of safety risks from counterfeiting." After the amendments failed, AARP executive Nancy LeaMond, a supporter of the plan, said, "Tonight, senators had a choice between meaningful savings for their constituents and higher profits for the drug industry" (Gaouette and Jensen, 12/15).

"Other senators backed a separate measure to allow imports that have been certified as safe by U.S. health officials. Also needing 60 votes, the proposal lost, 56-43," Reuters reports. "But allowing cheaper drugs could hurt revenues for the roughly $315 billion pharmaceutical industry, which boasts one of the strongest lobby groups in Washington and is a major backer of [President] Obama's broader drive for healthcare reform" (Heavey, 12/15).

The Senate's Democratic leadership backed the second, more limited amendment, Roll Call reports. Democrats and the White House lobbied to defeat Dorgan's proposal, which may have jeopardized the drug industry's support for reform. "With Republicans attempting to be spoilers by reversing their previous opposition to the proposal, 24 Senate Democrats who supported the bill last year voted to kill the amendment. Sixteen Republicans who had previously voted against the plan voted for it (Pierce and Drucker, 12/15).

"The defeat of the drug importation proposal Ö was a crucial victory for Obama and the pharmaceutical industry," the Los Angeles Times reports. "The politically charged amendment had held up the Senate for a week and threatened to derail the whole healthcare bill" (Hook and Levey, 12/16).

This is part of Kaiser Health News' Daily Report - a summary of health policy coverage from more than 300 news organizations. The full summary of the day's news can be found here and you can sign up for e-mail subscriptions to the Daily Report here. In addition, our staff of reporters and correspondents file original stories each day, which you can find on our home page.
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

 As of 8/2514,  t-cells are at 402, Viral load <40

 Current % is at 11%

  
 62 years young.

Offline BT65

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Re: Once again, the Drug companies prevail...
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2009, 06:59:58 PM »
I heard about this this morning, Ray, and it totally sucks.  I'm starting to wonder why people, who were for this and good health care reform are starting to turn.
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline Assurbanipal

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Re: Once again, the Drug companies prevail...
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2009, 07:41:52 PM »
I've never thought this was a good idea and I'm glad it failed.  It doesn't make any sense that we should rely on foreign regulation of drugs, or their manufacture and basically that's what this boils down to. 

The US is a leader in drug discovery, medical science and genetics.  It makes no sense to have other countries decide which drugs are safe or to decide on what standards factories that make those drugs are held to.

Yeah, yeah I know this is all about trying to get a better price for the drugs based on the prices other countries have negotiated.  But it makes more sense for the US to directly negotiate prices if we are going to go down that path -- rather than to indirectly negotiate them while putting drug safety at risk.

And since everyone knows this is the game, it's not as if this is a legislative path that has a better chance of success either.

So let's not put drug safety at risk by trying to do indirectly what we haven't the will to do directly.

I'll duck now   :)
5/06 VL 1M+, CD4 22, 5% , pneumonia, thrush -- O2 support 2 months, 6/06 +Kaletra/Truvada
9/06 VL 3959 CD4 297 13.5% 12/06 VL <400 CD4 350 15.2% +Pravachol
2007 VL<400, 70, 50 CD4 408-729 16.0% -19.7%
2008 VL UD CD4 468 - 538 16.7% - 24.6% Osteoporosis 11/08 doubled Pravachol, +Calcium/D
02/09 VL 100 CD4 616 23.7% 03/09 VL 130 5/09 VL 100 CD4 540 28.4% +Actonel (osteoporosis) 7/09 VL 130
8/09  new regimen Isentress/Epzicom 9/09 VL UD CD4 621 32.7% 11/09 VL UD CD4 607 26.4% swap Isentress for Prezista/Norvir 12/09 (liver and muscle issues) VL 50
2010 VL UD CD4 573-680 26.1% - 30.9% 12/10 VL 20
2011 VL UD-20 CD4 568-673 24.7%-30.6%
2012 VL UD swap Prezista/Norvir for Reyataz drop statin CD4 768-828 26.7%-30.7%

Offline BT65

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Re: Once again, the Drug companies prevail...
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2009, 08:12:01 PM »
I heard on a news program this evening that Canada's drugs are held to the same standards as ours are.  I'm sure there are other countries that are also held to the same standard (I haven't heard of people dying in other countries because their meds weren't safe).  This is about people who can't afford $400/month (or more) for one prescription.  I mean, it's fine to say "I'm glad it didn't pass," especially if you have prescription coverage.  For those who don't, it sure can get edgy at times.
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline Assurbanipal

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Re: Once again, the Drug companies prevail...
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2009, 08:30:02 PM »
The issue is not what the standards are so much as what recourse one has when the standards are failed and someone gets sick.  Honestly, do you think that it will be easier to get justice when the failure occurred across the border?

This is about people who can't afford $400/month (or more) for one prescription.  I mean, it's fine to say "I'm glad it didn't pass," especially if you have prescription coverage.  For those who don't, it sure can get edgy at times.

My post argued that there was a better way to approach the issue of affordability.  It DID NOT in any way argue that affordability was a bad goal. 

Frankly I've noticed that you impute bad motives to people often in your posts, often misreading their posts in order to do so.  What's up with that anyway?
5/06 VL 1M+, CD4 22, 5% , pneumonia, thrush -- O2 support 2 months, 6/06 +Kaletra/Truvada
9/06 VL 3959 CD4 297 13.5% 12/06 VL <400 CD4 350 15.2% +Pravachol
2007 VL<400, 70, 50 CD4 408-729 16.0% -19.7%
2008 VL UD CD4 468 - 538 16.7% - 24.6% Osteoporosis 11/08 doubled Pravachol, +Calcium/D
02/09 VL 100 CD4 616 23.7% 03/09 VL 130 5/09 VL 100 CD4 540 28.4% +Actonel (osteoporosis) 7/09 VL 130
8/09  new regimen Isentress/Epzicom 9/09 VL UD CD4 621 32.7% 11/09 VL UD CD4 607 26.4% swap Isentress for Prezista/Norvir 12/09 (liver and muscle issues) VL 50
2010 VL UD CD4 573-680 26.1% - 30.9% 12/10 VL 20
2011 VL UD-20 CD4 568-673 24.7%-30.6%
2012 VL UD swap Prezista/Norvir for Reyataz drop statin CD4 768-828 26.7%-30.7%

Offline libvet

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Re: Once again, the Drug companies prevail...
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2009, 08:42:40 PM »
I've never thought this was a good idea and I'm glad it failed.  It doesn't make any sense that we should rely on foreign regulation of drugs, or their manufacture and basically that's what this boils down to. 

The US is a leader in drug discovery, medical science and genetics.  It makes no sense to have other countries decide which drugs are safe or to decide on what standards factories that make those drugs are held to.


I don't disagree in some respects, but in others I do not.  If I can buy Lipitor or Atripla from Canada for a fraction of the price, safety is not exactly my main concern. These drugs are being made by the same companies that make the pharmaceuticals I can buy in the US.   If we are talking about some Indonesian knock-off, then it is a different argument altogether.

Offline edfu

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Re: Once again, the Drug companies prevail...
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2009, 03:24:14 AM »
It doesn't make any sense that we should rely on foreign regulation of drugs, or their manufacture and basically that's what this boils down to.  

You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to spew untruths as facts like some Republican teabagger.  The defeat of this proposal is vile, disgusting, and yet another instance of the total and complete debacle that so-called healthcare reform (which now has nothing to do health or care and definitely nothing to do with reform) has become.  Dorgan's amendment does NOT "rely on foreign regulation of drugs or their manufacture."  The amendment had strong safeguards, such as allowing imports ONLY of FDA-approved drugs ONLY from FDA-approved foreign plants.  Your objections are completely baseless and grossly false.  

Obamarama supported the importation of low-price drugs when he was running for the White House last year, but...guess what?  Now that he's President, like with everything else he ran on, he's changed his tune.  He and his minions in the Senate, many of whom previously sponsored and voted for Dorgan's legislation in past sessions
(this isn't the first time Dorgan's proposal has come up in the Senate), were more concerned with not violating the secret sweetheart deal top White House staffers cut with Big PhRMA in which the President would do nothing to decrease their obscene profits in exchange for their support of the Insurance Industry Protection Act (formerly known as healthcare reform).  

Oh, and not so off topic:  Dean for President 2012!  Force Obamarama into Democratic Presidential primaries.  We Need a Leader, Not a Talker.  
« Last Edit: December 17, 2009, 07:36:54 AM by edfu »
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Offline BT65

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Re: Once again, the Drug companies prevail...
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2009, 05:46:50 AM »
Frankly I've noticed that you impute bad motives to people often in your posts, often misreading their posts in order to do so.  What's up with that anyway?

I didn't misread your post, and if you think I'm implying bad motives on your part, then maybe you're reading something into my post that isn't there.  Maybe you should really read what I post with an unbiased mind, instead of a judgemental one.  Judgemental, yeah, what's up with that, aye?
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Once again, the Drug companies prevail...
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2009, 06:47:12 AM »
http://74.86.203.130/roll_call/sublist/6464?party=Republican&vote=Nay

Democrats Voting 'Nay' (30)
Name Voted
Sen. Daniel Akaka [D, HI]  Nay
Sen. Max Baucus [D, MT]  Nay
Sen. Evan Bayh [D, IN]  Nay
Sen. Roland Burris [D, IL]  Nay
Sen. Maria Cantwell [D, WA]  Nay
Sen. Benjamin Cardin [D, MD]  Nay
Sen. Thomas Carper [D, DE]  Nay
Sen. Robert Casey [D, PA]  Nay
Sen. Christopher Dodd [D, CT]  Nay
Sen. Richard Durbin [D, IL]  Nay
Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand [D, NY]  Nay
Sen. Kay Hagan [D, NC]  Nay
Sen. Daniel Inouye [D, HI]  Nay
Sen. Edward Kaufman [D, DE]  Nay
Sen. John Kerry [D, MA]  Nay
Sen. Paul Kirk [D, MA]  Nay
Sen. Mary Landrieu [D, LA]  Nay
Sen. Frank Lautenberg [D, NJ]  Nay
Sen. Carl Levin [D, MI]  Nay
Sen. Robert Menťndez [D, NJ]  Nay
Sen. Barbara Mikulski [D, MD]  Nay
Sen. Patty Murray [D, WA]  Nay
Sen. John Reed [D, RI]  Nay
Sen. Harry Reid [D, NV]  Nay
Sen. John Rockefeller [D, WV]  Nay
Sen. Charles Schumer [D, NY]  Nay
Sen. Jon Tester [D, MT]  Nay
Sen. Mark Udall [D, CO]  Nay
Sen. Mark Warner [D, VA]  Nay
Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse [D, RI] 

Republicans Voting 'Nay'(17)
Name Voted
Sen. John Barrasso [R, WY]  Nay
Sen. Robert Bennett [R, UT]  Nay
Sen. Samuel Brownback [R, KS]  Nay
Sen. Jim Bunning [R, KY]  Nay
Sen. Richard Burr [R, NC]  Nay
Sen. Saxby Chambliss [R, GA]  Nay
Sen. Thad Cochran [R, MS]  Nay
Sen. John Ensign [R, NV]  Nay
Sen. Michael Enzi [R, WY]  Nay
Sen. Judd Gregg [R, NH]  Nay
Sen. Orrin Hatch [R, UT]  Nay
Sen. James Inhofe [R, OK]  Nay
Sen. John Isakson [R, GA]  Nay
Sen. Jon Kyl [R, AZ]  Nay
Sen. Richard Lugar [R, IN]  Nay
Sen. Pat Roberts [R, KS]  Nay
Sen. George Voinovich [R, OH] 

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Once again, the Drug companies prevail...
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2009, 07:17:30 AM »
The issue is not what the standards are so much as what recourse one has when the standards are failed and someone gets sick.  Honestly, do you think that it will be easier to get justice when the failure occurred across the border?

My post argued that there was a better way to approach the issue of affordability.  It DID NOT in any way argue that affordability was a bad goal. 

Frankly I've noticed that you impute bad motives to people often in your posts, often misreading their posts in order to do so.  What's up with that anyway?

Frankly, I've noticed you have a holier than thou attitude. What's up with that anyway?

Maybe you forgot Americans use to be able to buy their drugs fom Canada and no one died. That ended when big pharma wrote the Bush Medicare bill.

Offline edfu

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Re: Once again, the Drug companies prevail...
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2009, 07:33:10 AM »
But it makes more sense for the US to directly negotiate prices

I forgot to point out expressly that yes, it does make more sense, but the White House has agreed with Big PhRMA not to do so.  Obamarama  has done the same thing Shrub did when setting up Medicare Part D.  Don't you read the news?  

So where does that leave us?  The Dorgan amendment was the only recourse.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2009, 07:36:05 AM by edfu »
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Offline J.R.E.

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Re: Once again, the Drug companies prevail...
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2009, 07:36:11 AM »


Obamarama supported the importation of low-price drugs when he was running for the White House last year, but...guess what?  Now that he's President, like with everything else he ran on, he's changed his tune.

And we all know the reasons for that.   Big Pharma has got a grip on his nut sac, and they've been squeezing for some time now.   :(

I am getting to fed up watching the news anymore... How many more phone calls, letters, petitions, emails, and snail can I make...  :-\

Ray
« Last Edit: December 17, 2009, 07:38:50 AM by J.R.E. »
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

 As of 8/2514,  t-cells are at 402, Viral load <40

 Current % is at 11%

  
 62 years young.

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Once again, the Drug companies prevail...
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2009, 07:52:05 AM »

I am getting to fed up watching the news anymore... How many more phone calls, letters, petitions, emails, and snail can I make...  :-\

Ray

You know Ray before you posted this I was thinking the same thing, but I'll take it a step further....  why the hell do I take the time to even vote period?   All the big issues: healthcare, economy, gas prices, troops coming home... none of it has come to fruition, or taken a turn even.  I lost faith in our government during the Bush years and of course I was with a lot of people and thought Obama would restore my trust.  Even though I was young at the time, this presidency reminds me a little of the Carter era.  We have a powerless Democrat sleeping in the White House... who will  mostly likely get blamed for all the failures during his term.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2009, 07:58:56 AM by skeebo1969 »
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: Once again, the Drug companies prevail...
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2009, 09:49:29 AM »
::rolls eyes::
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Once again, the Drug companies prevail...
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2009, 10:43:52 AM »
I just hope against all hope that this country wakes up one day and can fully digest the fact that our country has put a huge for profit price tag on our health care . I think its just plain immoral .

The way I see it shaking down a sick person for every penny you can get until they are poverty stricken is the same thing as insisting  a heart attack victim fork over 20 bucks before you start CPR . Nothing is ever gonna change until people admit you cant put a price tag on decent health care and we opt for a single payer system . 

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: Once again, the Drug companies prevail...
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2009, 01:55:29 PM »

Oh, and not so off topic:  Dean for President 2012!  Force Obamarama into Democratic Presidential primaries.  We Need a Leader, Not a Talker.  

I'm not so sure about that:  http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2009/12/howard-deans-flip-flops.php

Otherwise some of you might want to read this recounting of a WH "blogger call" done with David Axelrod today, where he seems to be saying that there will be HHS bill in the near future to put an infrastructure in place to import drugs:  http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/white-house-blogger-call-axelrod-answ
« Last Edit: December 17, 2009, 11:51:43 PM by Miss Philicia »
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline edfu

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Re: Once again, the Drug companies prevail...
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2009, 05:00:55 AM »
Anyone who would, for one hot second, believe at this point in time any will-o'-the-wisp promise made by consigliere David Axelrod--especially regarding the cost of drugs--is deluded and has my sympathy.  Such a person is probably still drinking the Obamarama Kool-Aid and believes we elected a President who would bring us "change we can believe in."

In the meantime, Sen. Dorgan has accused the White House of unethically politicizing the safety warnings from the F.D.A. on his drug-importation amendment.  Shocking stuff:

http://www.openleft.com/diary/16550/did-the-white-house-political-staff-unethically-pressuremanipulate-the-fda 

Some of you might want a quick recap of why so many of us formerly avid Obamarama supporters now think he's nothing but a sellout:

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/ed-schultz-right-now-mr-president-your-bas
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Offline David_CA

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Re: Once again, the Drug companies prevail...
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2009, 08:35:32 AM »
It's really annoying when people use names like Obamarama.
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: Once again, the Drug companies prevail...
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2009, 08:59:57 AM »
Anyone who would, for one hot second, believe at this point in time any will-o'-the-wisp promise made by consigliere David Axelrod--especially regarding the cost of drugs--is deluded and has my sympathy.  Such a person is probably still drinking the Obamarama Kool-Aid and believes we elected a President who would bring us "change we can believe in."

In the meantime, Sen. Dorgan has accused the White House of unethically politicizing the safety warnings from the F.D.A. on his drug-importation amendment.  Shocking stuff:

http://www.openleft.com/diary/16550/did-the-white-house-political-staff-unethically-pressuremanipulate-the-fda  

Some of you might want a quick recap of why so many of us formerly avid Obamarama supporters now think he's nothing but a sellout:

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/ed-schultz-right-now-mr-president-your-bas


Nope, just saying that there's a lot of disinformation out there (not to mention overly verklempt homosexuals).  I'll also make note of your creative dodge of Howard Dean's, Mr. 2012, flip flop.  Personally I'm trying to keep even headed until something moves into conference.  I'm well aware of how the process works, and the politics involved in getting SOMETHING SOMEWHERE that it's never reached previously.

I'm also taking care to not take other previous objections I have with this administration on other, totally separate, issues and applying them to my thoughts on this current issue -- something I think other people obviously aren't mature enough to do, even if they're old enough to be my father.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2009, 09:01:54 AM by Miss Philicia »
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Offline Assurbanipal

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Re: Once again, the Drug companies prevail...
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2009, 10:08:31 AM »
You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to spew untruths as facts like some Republican teabagger.  The defeat of this proposal is vile, disgusting, and yet another instance of the total and complete debacle that so-called healthcare reform (which now has nothing to do health or care and definitely nothing to do with reform) has become.  Dorgan's amendment does NOT "rely on foreign regulation of drugs or their manufacture."  The amendment had strong safeguards, such as allowing imports ONLY of FDA-approved drugs ONLY from FDA-approved foreign plants.  Your objections are completely baseless and grossly false.  

I did not "spew" any untruths.  I simply stated the unpalatable truth that there are no teeth behind those reputed "safeguards".

Frankly I've been following medical re importation legislation since the first time it was introduced (yes, that millennium).  Initially I was in favor on the theory that, even though it was not great policy, it might be politically more palatable.  Time has shown that not to be the case.  And recent events in the financial world have also hardened my attitude about the need for clearly defined regulatory teeth.  (Not to mention the great job we have done regulating imports of "safe" food and toys.  )

The most disappointing event for me recently has been Lieberman's flip flop on extending Medicare -- that had a real chance of passing and would have done more to establish a pathway to successful reform than just about anything.  I'm still wondering if there is any way to do a temporary pilot program (say allowing those who reach 62 in the next few years to buy in).

But the main problem is not Obama but the need for 60 solid votes in the Senate.  And even though several years and several states away, I'll be working on Lieberman's ouster  -- that's a commitment.

Finally, anyone who falls for Howard Dean's speeches on voting against the bill should really go back and study Social Security history.  All Roosevelt was able to get through the Congress was a flawed version of the initial vision ... but through the 60's (yes for decades!)  Congress worked on the system and improved it.  Roosevelt's core success was not  a fully developed Social Security system, but to establish enough of a system that the public came to love, depend on and forced the Congress to improve. 
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Online Miss Philicia

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Re: Once again, the Drug companies prevail...
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2009, 10:12:09 AM »
Interesting perspective:

Quote
If I feel abandoned, it's not by Obama and the Democratic party, it's by those on the left advocating to kill the bill.

I am unemployed and have a pre-existing condition that requires daily medicines, quarterly doctors visits and an annual test. I am on COBRA, which runs out mid-2010, when I will have to find new health insurance. I will need to purchase some kind of health insurance, assuming I can find provider who will insure me

I don't pretend to understand all the intricacies of the health care reform bill, but I do read a lot. From what I can glean, if the bill passed, I would be able to find health insurance because I could not to be turned down due to my pre-exisiting condition. And based on my income at the moment, my premuims would be subsidized.

Am I disappointed in the reform effort? Yes. I believe in single payer. I was terribly disappointed the Medicare buy-in for 55 and older was dropped, not because I give a rat's ass about Lieberman or the political wrangling involved, but because I am two years shy of 55 and I would have loved to be able to tough it out on the private market for a little while longer knowing Medicare coverage was just around the corner. Believe me, it's scary being 52 and unemployed with a medical condition. Any form of security is vital.

My case is not unique or unusual. In fact, it is common. I am one of thousands if not millions with the same issues that this bill would affect. And when I read or hear people from the left arguing against the bill that would likely provide me and people like me with some modicum of security because the bill doesn't accomplish everything they had hoped it would or it doesn't help every last person or the insurance industry will benefit, I do feel abandoned.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2009, 10:15:48 AM by Miss Philicia »
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Offline madbrain

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Re: Once again, the Drug companies prevail...
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2009, 01:08:36 PM »
Interesting perspective:


Someone should tell Mr AK that he already has options when his COBRA runs out - get a HIPAA policy. And he cannot be turned down for it either. The main problem is when people run out of money and stop paying for their COBRA and HIPAA policy. Once they have a gap in insurance, they start being subject to all the nasty pre-existing condition exclusions. And it is pretty hard to afford those policies when you are not working.

Offline randym431

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Re: Once again, the Drug companies prevail...
« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2009, 08:58:12 PM »
I know this looks disgusting for the drug amendment to have failed, but something is up and you have to pay attention closely. Democrats have finally realized not one republican will support any reform. Period. And the lobbyist in Congress are chipping away at loyal democrats. Reid needs and wants to get his foot in the door of reform victory, by passing even a poor watered down version of the bill.

What has happened with the democrats is that they now look at this as building blocks to reform, and not some "one giant swoop" process currently unobtainable.
You have to look at this reform in steps, one by one, ending the "healthcare for profit" system, finally.
What was lost now is not really that important. It may look so, but its not a huge loss considering the over all goal. And consider the ever increasing hysteric resistance to any reform from pro business republicans and the healthcare for profit industry, as this bill heads closer and closer toward passage.

You have to consider there is much more on the table to reform than is currently on the plate.
This is just step # one, and this will be a huge step.
Please note: Why do you think the healthcare industry continues to shake in their boots, while it would seem reform is going their way right into the dumpster? Because the "healthcare for profit" industry knows too well that they will eventually lose the battle. Any reform bill passage is a terrifying prospect to them.
The healthcare for profit industry in America has but one goal and logical course, higher and higher rates/costs for the public. More greed and profit. As time goes by, their system as it stands now will not survive. And they know that only too well. There is where you see the panic to any reform passage.
For a long time they have gotten away with greed and the congress had protected them from reform. But that day is about to enter its end stages. That is why they continue to fight so hard in terror.

You would think with a public option not in the bill, and no medicare buy-in, and the loss of this drug amendment, that the healthcare industry would be rejoicing? They are not. They know what is coming.
It might appear to us that reform is failing in the original goals, but look closer...
Things are not as bad as they look. And you will see a massive healthcare industry mental breakdown as soon as any reform bill passes, because they know this is not the end but just the beginning to total reform. Just watch as this plays out in the next few weeks, and then the next few years that follow.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2009, 09:05:26 PM by randym431 »

Offline MitchMiller

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Re: Once again, the Drug companies prevail...
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2010, 02:14:03 AM »
Hmmm.... many drugs that are consumed in the US are manufactured in foreign countries.  Just like everything else, costs are cheaper and in some cases, environmental regulations are weaker.  

If you've taken a generic brand Aspirin recently, it most likely came from that country that boasts the highest in quality control.... China !!! (LOL)

http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_5699.cfm

Early on in Ireland's economic revival, drug manufacturing was really big.  Most of the drugs are then brought back into the US by the pharmaceutical companies and distributed at US prices.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 02:15:41 AM by MitchMiller »

 


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