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Author Topic: From HIV to Aids back to HIV  (Read 3675 times)

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Offline HIV? poz about being neg

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From HIV to Aids back to HIV
« on: December 15, 2008, 03:30:20 AM »
Sorry if this is the wrong place to post.
But ok so when a person has HIV and his numbers CD4 drop below a certain number is the person then considered to have Aids?   And if so when the person goes on treatment and there numbers climb back up are they just considered to be HIV positive...   ok in short what is the difference? between being HIV positive and having Aids?
Jan/25/07 VL > 100 000 CD4 480 21%
Apr/13/10     Started Atripla
May/11/10    VL !! 300 !!     CD4 520
Jul/15/10      VL    75          CD4 400   27%
Dec/20/10    VL UD             CD4 390 28%
Jan/10/12    VL UD              CD4 670 28%
Mar/31/14    VL UD              CD4 580 37%

Offline J.R.E.

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Re: From HIV to Aids back to HIV
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2008, 07:54:36 AM »
Hello,

This was discussed a while back in this thread :


http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=24378.msg307465#msg307465

Ray
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

 As of 6/4/14,  t-cells are at 423, Viral load <40

 Current % is at 13% 

  
 62 years young.

Offline Assurbanipal

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Re: From HIV to Aids back to HIV
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2008, 08:02:25 AM »
There's been a lot of threads on this topic.  Basically summing them up:

AIDS stands for Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome.  It is a technical term.  You still have the syndrome, even if your acquired immune deficiency is controlled by drugs.  

If you personally feel great, you shouldn't let an AIDS diagnosis make you feel unhealthy once your immune system is back in the normal range.  Just remember that staying healthy requires you to stick with your drugs and you should read up on them so you can monitor for any long term side effects.  There are a number of otherwise healthy people with AIDS.

For many of us  the idea of being otherwise healthy seems unattainable.  That's especially true for those who have already had an opportunistic illness.  But, for some, good health is in reach.  Just stick to the drugs.    

The technical term is used in US law in a bunch of places, including figuring out how to allocate resources to States to pay for programs under the Ryan White Act.

Regards
A

5/06 VL 1M+, CD4 22, 5% , pneumonia, thrush -- O2 support 2 months, 6/06 +Kaletra/Truvada
9/06 VL 3959 CD4 297 13.5% 12/06 VL <400 CD4 350 15.2% +Pravachol
2007 VL<400, 70, 50 CD4 408-729 16.0% -19.7%
2008 VL UD CD4 468 - 538 16.7% - 24.6% Osteoporosis 11/08 doubled Pravachol, +Calcium/D
02/09 VL 100 CD4 616 23.7% 03/09 VL 130 5/09 VL 100 CD4 540 28.4% +Actonel (osteoporosis) 7/09 VL 130
8/09  new regimen Isentress/Epzicom 9/09 VL UD CD4 621 32.7% 11/09 VL UD CD4 607 26.4% swap Isentress for Prezista/Norvir 12/09 (liver and muscle issues) VL 50
2010 VL UD CD4 573-680 26.1% - 30.9% 12/10 VL 20
2011 VL UD-20 CD4 568-673 24.7%-30.6%
2012 VL UD swap Prezista/Norvir for Reyataz drop statin CD4 768-828 26.7%-30.7%

Offline red_Dragon888

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Re: From HIV to Aids back to HIV
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2008, 02:35:21 PM »
It's Full blown Aids that is dangerous to the body.  Hiv and Aids, just Aids, means more or less that the desease can be manage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I3ba3lnFHik

“Neither look forward where there is doubt nor backward where there is regret. Look inward and ask not if there is anything o

Offline sharkdiver

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Re: From HIV to Aids back to HIV
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2008, 07:27:46 PM »
It's Full blown Aids that is dangerous to the body.  Hiv and Aids, just Aids, means more or less that the desease can be manage.

AIDS is AIDS, full blown AIDS is such an antiquated term. stop using it

Offline mecch

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Re: From HIV to Aids back to HIV
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2008, 08:08:40 PM »
I think HIV+ and AIDS are terms that mean different things to different people in different countries and furthermore this changes over time.  My country doesn't follow US CDC guidelines, which seem to be important especially in the US for disability and insurance purposes, etc. 

Is Obama the first "black" US President or the first "metis" US President. Maybe its not two different things, HIV and AIDS.  Maybe it is. You decide.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline sharkdiver

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Re: From HIV to Aids back to HIV
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2008, 09:16:43 PM »
I didn't say that HIV and AIDS were the same diagnosis. Just that when You get an AIDS diagnosis for whatever reason, you have AIDS.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2008, 09:59:34 PM by sharkdiver »

Offline komnaes

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Re: From HIV to Aids back to HIV
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2008, 10:14:53 PM »
There are "technical" differences I suppose between the two but as Sharkie has pointed out some of those might already been antiquated. This is one thing I think all of us need to get over is the label associated with AIDS; the more we try to avoid it the more (negative) power we are giving it.

I remember I was taken aback when one time a nurse used "POA" to include me - I didn't know what it meant so I asked, huh? And she added, oh, People with AIDS. For about 10 secs, I was thinking, do I have AIDS? Am I only HIV+? But then I realized that it was just my own prejudice. Yeah, of course, I have AIDS; calling it HIV+ doesn't make it less of a health concern.

As long as I don't have a life threatening OI that is about to kill me, and I am functioning well with/without meds, HIV or AIDS doesn't mean anything to me now.
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline HIV? poz about being neg

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Re: From HIV to Aids back to HIV
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2008, 02:34:41 AM »
wow thank you all for responding and answering my question.
Jan/25/07 VL > 100 000 CD4 480 21%
Apr/13/10     Started Atripla
May/11/10    VL !! 300 !!     CD4 520
Jul/15/10      VL    75          CD4 400   27%
Dec/20/10    VL UD             CD4 390 28%
Jan/10/12    VL UD              CD4 670 28%
Mar/31/14    VL UD              CD4 580 37%

Offline blondbeauty

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Re: From HIV to Aids back to HIV
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2008, 08:23:36 PM »
According to my crazy Dr. it is all the same. He prefers to speak about stages. For him I am in stage IA, or at least that is what he writes in all the reports he gives me.
His signed diagnosis is: HIV INFECTION - STAGE IA
The only member in these forums approved by WINBA: World International Nail and Beauty Association.
Epstein Barr +; CMV +; Toxoplasmosis +; HIV-1 +.
Counts when starting treatment:
V.L.:80.200 copies. CD4: 25%=503
Started Sustiva-Truvada 14/August/2006
Last V.L.count (Oct 2013): Undetectable
Last CD4 count (OCT 2013): 52%= 933

Offline milker

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Re: From HIV to Aids back to HIV
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2008, 12:45:09 AM »
I'll ask my doctor, but i'm classified as an AIDS patient, even though my CD4s went up to the 400s.

I think the problem here is the word and the stigma that goes with it. HIV+ is already hard for many to deal with, but AIDS sounds like a death sentence and uneducated people will be even more scared if you tell them you have AIDS.

I couldn't care less if I'm called an AIDS patient or an HIV patient or a XYZ patient. As long as I get the care I need then that's all I want.

As for the stigma that goes with it, then I guess people who are more afraid of AIDS than HIV don't know what they're talking about, so fuck them (with a condom).. who cares about uneducated people at this point?

There must be subtle differences in a clinical standpoint and insurance, but I'm not sure about those.

Milker.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2008, 12:47:47 AM by milker »
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline David_CA

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Re: From HIV to Aids back to HIV
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2008, 09:55:15 AM »
Recovery from PCP pneumonia and thrush was long and hard (my lungs will never completely recover from the damage), so I think I want to keep my AIDS diagnosis.  I worked hard and earned it.  Besides, the 'A' card trumps all others!  ;)

Although my numbers are good now, they weren't all that bad when I got sick.  At least most HIV+ people with CD4's in the upper 200's don't end up hospitalized for 8 days with pneumonia!  I think that the fact that I was that sick and had decent numbers says something about my immunity (or about some aspect of my body); I don't think it's as 'effective' as other folks', otherwise I wouldn't have gotten so sick.  Differentiating between being HIV+ and having AIDS seems have value in situations like this (where 'something' about the individual's immune system isn't quite up to par).
« Last Edit: December 17, 2008, 08:07:40 PM by David_NC »
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline AtomicA

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Re: From HIV to Aids back to HIV
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2008, 05:06:17 PM »
My doctors always said that you were HIV positive until you had an "AIDS defining event", which if I understand correctly was a characteristic OI - then you had AIDS. I thought that meant I have only ever been HIV+, until I went to the travel clinic early this year for my trip to Belize. The travel doc had to request all my blood work from the HIV clinic and he told me that the same month I started meds, I had gone from being immune to CMV to having an active CMV infection. I was always told that was an AIDS defining event and yet my clinic a) never told me I had an active CMV infection once in the two years since I started meds and b) still refers to me as only HIV+
at least I know why I felt like garbage for the whole month before I started meds.

at the end of the day, does it really matter what we call it?


Offline franfrog

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Re: From HIV to Aids back to HIV
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2008, 03:59:22 PM »
AIDS is AIDS, full blown AIDS is such an antiquated term. stop using it
I never understood that either.  What would be the clarification between "full blown aids" and AIDS?  If you are classified as having AIDS, that is your diagnosis.  When I was diagnosed I had a cd4 of 52 and vl so high they could not even register and spent a month in the hospital with PCP.  I have since gone to a cd4 of as high as 829 and vl undetectable but to the cdc I am still considered to have Aids.
I now that some doctors will look at me and say I am HIV positive.  No matter what though my body has reached that AIDS stage and that is where my body has been affected and will remain.  I can feel better, and be better but will never recover fully from having AIDS.
7/05 diagnosis cd4- 52 vl -?
08/05 cd4-299 vl-1900
10/05 cd4-249 vl-349
12/05 cd4-349 vl-52
03/06 cd4-454 vl-<50
06/06 cd4-508 vl-<50

Offline randym431

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Re: From HIV to Aids back to HIV
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2008, 02:34:28 AM »
Does SS disability go by different guide lines when you apply?
That is, do they call you hiv or aids or is it all one thing to them???

Offline Patrick

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Re: From HIV to Aids back to HIV
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2008, 06:43:43 PM »
This is a topic that kind of bothers me a little bit.  I think the way the CDC defines "AIDS" is antiquated and absurd.  I believe they define it as either an OI or a CD4 count recorded under 200.  That part is fine.  However, they go on to say that once diagnosed with AIDS, you always have AIDS.  This is just silly.  AIDS is a condition, not an infection.  HIV is the infection.  Infections go through different stages, and with modern medicine you can go from sick to the point of AIDS and then back to being healthy again.  Saying once you have AIDS, you always have AIDS is tantamount to saying once you have a cold and are sick, then you always are sick.  With a cold, you have a virus that makes you sick, but you get better and your condition changes from one of sickness to one of health.  However, that particular strain of the cold virus remains in your body always.  You never purge the virus.  Yet you are healthy.

With HIV, you have a virus that makes you sick, but when you take your meds, you get better and your condition changes from one of sickness to one of health.  However, that particular strain of HIV remains in your body always.  You never purge the virus.  Yet you are healthy. 

The same words can be used to describe the chain of events in both scenerios.  Please don't think I'm equating a cold to HIV in any other way, however.  I know full well it'd be silly to do so.

Many people, myself included have seen their CD4 counts fall below 200, only to reverse course dramatically once on HAART.  Once your CD4 gets back to a higher level, and you are asymptomatic, then it is silly to think your immune system is deficient.  Deficiency would be defined as a lack of efficacy due to a reduced CD4 count.  If your CD4 count is high to the point that your immune system can function normally, then there is no acquired immune deficiency syndrome present.  HIV infection still exists, but immune systems can and do recover very well in people who start therapy relatively early. 

Pesonal experience....

During my seroconversion, my CD4 dropped to 190, an AIDS defining level.  Yet 3 weeks later (3 weeks!!!!) it was over 800 and is now near 1000.  10 days after being diagnosed, I went and ran 4 miles.  That's not the behavior of a sick individual.  Now I hit the gym 4 times a week, run 20 miles a week, get over colds just as quickly as before I had HIV and live my life the same way as I used to, save I swallow pills twice a day.  I am very lucky and count my blessings daily.  However, I recoil at the thought that someone would define me as an AIDS patient, when my immune system is very healthy, as any HIV specialist would tell you, as any lab sheet would show. 

The CDC needs to update their definition of what AIDS is, as it is doesn't even pass the sanity test anymore.  I know some may disagree with me on this, and that's fine, but I wanted to put it out there.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2008, 06:45:50 PM by Patrick »
Seroconversion - late October 07
11/14/07 - CD4 190   VL >750,000
11/14/07 - Started Truvada & Kaletra
12/5/07 - CD4 851     VL 710
2/19/08 - CD4 604     VL Undetectable
5/8/08 -   CD4 829     VL Undetectable
8/12/08 - CD4 915     VL 80 (blip)
11/11/08 - CD4 967    VL Undetectable

Offline RapidRod

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Re: From HIV to Aids back to HIV
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2008, 07:17:55 PM »
No where does it say that you are incapacitated with AIDS. I was in 2005 with an OI and in the hospital for over a month and this past year built a two car garage with breezeway and a front porch. Does it mean I can hold down a 40 hour a week job. NO. Does it mean I can work an 8 hr day. No. But do I have a high chance of getting ill a lot quicker than someone that has never been diagnosed with AIDS, the answer is yes.

Offline Patrick

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Re: From HIV to Aids back to HIV
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2008, 07:32:13 PM »
Rod, very sorry to hear about your OI, but I'm thrilled you have recovered so well.  However, I feel that our experiences are likely quite different.  I would assume that you were poz for quite awhile before coming down with your OI.  If this is true, its likely your immune system was damaged permanently, and perhaps your body's ability to fully regenerage its immune system is compromised.  I have some good friends who are like this, who have been infected since before the HAART days.  They have undetectable cd4 counts now, but cannot get their cd4 counts much above 300 or so.  A case can be made for these individuals that they continue to have AIDS despite a cd4 above 200 (albeit barely).

However, I think that for many more recently infected individuals, if modern HAART is implemented soon after infection, then their cd4 count can be brought back up high enough and quickly enough so that no permanent damage ensues even if the cd4 nadir was sub 200. This would negate any reasonable attempt to define their condition as one of immune deficiency.

This all needs to be taken on a case by case basis, with the full knowledge and context of the individuals history and circumstances.  Which is why the CDC's definition is woefully inadequate.  It fails to capture the differing realities of the infection for many HIV+ people in 2008.
Seroconversion - late October 07
11/14/07 - CD4 190   VL >750,000
11/14/07 - Started Truvada & Kaletra
12/5/07 - CD4 851     VL 710
2/19/08 - CD4 604     VL Undetectable
5/8/08 -   CD4 829     VL Undetectable
8/12/08 - CD4 915     VL 80 (blip)
11/11/08 - CD4 967    VL Undetectable

Offline RapidRod

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Re: From HIV to Aids back to HIV
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2008, 08:17:55 PM »
I was a LTNP for 21 years. CD4s 1400 and VL 4000. CD4s crashed in 2005 and have only been on meds 3 years and at that time was when I was diagnosed with AIDS. This year is the first time my CD4s have been over 200 since diagnosed with AIDS and it's not that much over 200.

Offline red_Dragon888

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Re: From HIV to Aids back to HIV
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2008, 09:16:10 PM »
I was a LTNP for 21 years. CD4s 1400 and VL 4000. CD4s crashed in 2005 and have only been on meds 3 years and at that time was when I was diagnosed with AIDS. This year is the first time my CD4s have been over 200 since diagnosed with AIDS and it's not that much over 200.
it is different for everyone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I3ba3lnFHik

“Neither look forward where there is doubt nor backward where there is regret. Look inward and ask not if there is anything o

Offline RapidRod

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Re: From HIV to Aids back to HIV
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2008, 09:21:43 PM »
it is different for everyone.

AIDS diagnosis is an AIDS diagnosis. It not different for everyone. Their signs and symptoms maybe different, but the diagnosis is the same.

Offline red_Dragon888

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Re: From HIV to Aids back to HIV
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2008, 09:23:08 PM »
AIDS is AIDS, full blown AIDS is such an antiquated term. stop using it
pardon my faux pas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I3ba3lnFHik

“Neither look forward where there is doubt nor backward where there is regret. Look inward and ask not if there is anything o

Offline red_Dragon888

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Re: From HIV to Aids back to HIV
« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2008, 09:25:20 PM »
AIDS diagnosis is an AIDS diagnosis. It not different for everyone. Their signs and symptoms maybe different, but the diagnosis is the same.
I meant his progression to higher cd4 levels
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I3ba3lnFHik

“Neither look forward where there is doubt nor backward where there is regret. Look inward and ask not if there is anything o

Offline md

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Re: From HIV to Aids back to HIV
« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2008, 11:25:57 PM »
Does SS disability go by different guide lines when you apply?
That is, do they call you hiv or aids or is it all one thing to them???

SSDI is based on medical factors which limit your ability to work.

As far as I can remember, they don't really care about an AIDS diagnosis - they are looking for HIV infection plus one or more other factors that actually limit your ability to work.

See: here for details.

Simply having an AIDS diagnosis would not in and of itself qualify you for SSDI.

 


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