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Poll

Are we responsible of our HIV infection as we got it through unprotected sexual intercourse ?

Always
12 (32.4%)
Most of time
6 (16.2%)
Not Always
13 (35.1%)
Never
1 (2.7%)
Other
5 (13.5%)

Total Members Voted: 37

Author Topic: Are we responsible of our HIV infection ?  (Read 8684 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Are we responsible of our HIV infection ?
« Reply #50 on: December 11, 2008, 02:33:25 PM »


  John,

   I hope you find what ever it is you are looking for, good luck man.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline John2038

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Re: Are we responsible of our HIV infection ?
« Reply #51 on: December 11, 2008, 02:36:01 PM »
Cliff

I have been infected by a Thai girl, never I have says by an African girl.

skeebo1969

This discussion was not having the aim to be personal, but general.
However, I appreciate your wishes, and wishes you the same.

Offline David_CA

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Re: Are we responsible of our HIV infection ?
« Reply #52 on: December 11, 2008, 02:44:46 PM »
You are mentioning part of the story.
For the others part, just know that betraying, trust, lie, believe, and so are in the dictionary.
Without trust, believe in someone, there is almost nothing you can do in this world.
Not even eat food. Following your reasoning, you should check yourself if the milk you just bought don't contains melatonin.
The world you are describing is not the world in which we live.
You should argue with more options.


Actually, melatonin (a hormone) in milk isn't always a bad thing.  I believe you're referring to melamine, which is an organic compound and has been found in baby formula recently.  And yes, parents in the US are warned not to use any milk / baby formula products from China as a precaution.  In the same way, we've been warned to practice safe(r) sex for decades to avoid HIV infection.  You didn't choose a good analogy.

« Last Edit: December 11, 2008, 02:48:08 PM by David_NC »
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Offline Cliff

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Re: Are we responsible of our HIV infection ?
« Reply #53 on: December 11, 2008, 02:47:33 PM »
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=16030.msg202577#msg202577

John in the above thread, you speak of being infected by a girl in Africa and finding out your status when you moved back to Europe.  Again, I don't really care what the truth is....it's your business.  But I just don't understand why you care so much what other people say/think and need to start threads like this if you have no interest in being open and honest. 

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Are we responsible of our HIV infection ?
« Reply #54 on: December 11, 2008, 02:56:13 PM »


  John,

    Have you ever read any of your old threads?  Especially the one mentioned by Cliff?  You have had this mindset for well over a year now.  I'm done trying to tell you how to move past this.  I just want to sincerely ask you, can you see how this is rather unhealthy mentally for you?
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline John2038

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Re: Are we responsible of our HIV infection ?
« Reply #55 on: December 11, 2008, 03:04:15 PM »
David_NC

You are right. Thanks

Cliff

I have been infected by a Thai girl in Africa, as I met her here.
She came back her country last year

skeebo1969

It is obvious that some people in this forum think that you are always the only one responsible of your HIV infection, as is suggesting this small poll result.
It is fine like that, as everybody is free to think what he/she want.
But not to use their beliefs to judge others. without knowing the facts.
I was willing to see why they think like that, so this discussion.
I am not doing any personal psycho here, or any single question is psycho.

EDIT

skeebo1969

I have read the post mentioned by Cliff, and I see what you mean.
But please, it was my first post, I just got the confirmation this day that I was infected, and yes this post contains a lot of emotions among others things.
Please, forget this post. I made a long way since, and I feel very fine since few months already.
Im saying that just based on the life I am having. I have a happy life, I feel very good, can do again my life with a new partner and so. I don't need HAART now, I just decided to start it this month.
I will get my prescription next week, so my initial question about genotype in Thailand.
After that, I believe my life will be 99.9% normal. It is already now, just willing to maintain healthy my IS.

But as I believe you, Cliff and some others are honest, I would like to thank you for all the care you are giving to others. I understand your point but please, believe me when I say I am far from my position the first day. I even hardly  believe that the cure will be find before 10 years. I am currently trying to build a family, so happy happy as they say in Thailand..  ;)
« Last Edit: December 11, 2008, 03:29:38 PM by John2038 »

Offline MarcoPoz

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Re: Are we responsible of our HIV infection ?
« Reply #56 on: December 11, 2008, 03:12:12 PM »
Hmmm...interesting question and the gist of which I got when I used to give talks at schools.  Stundents wanted to know about things like blame, fault and guilt.  In all honesty, these things never really were issues for me.  Don't get me wrong, if I could change things I would.

For me, I was young and perhaps a bit blinded by love, lust and excitement.  Add a bit of being unaware.  Since becoming positive, sex for me has become pathologized and always includes the difficult issue of dealing with a disease for which there is no cure.

I don't blame my partner, or myself.

I think I've been more focused on how my character is molded by HIV and how I learn to live with HIV.  What it means for my relationships, family etc.  What it means for my mental and emotional health.

I think if I focused on ideas like guilt, blame and fault, it would be difficult for me to do the positive and proactive things I think I need to be part of.

Offline anniebc

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Re: Are we responsible of our HIV infection ?
« Reply #57 on: December 11, 2008, 04:54:12 PM »
Just in case it's missed, and so it's clear that I'm still a member of these forums and I'm entitled to voice my opinion as a Member I have added this to my post #18.

"I would like John, Leatherman and others to know that I posted this as a Member and not as a Moderator of these forums"

Jan
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never knock on deaths door..ring the bell and run..he really hates that.

Offline John2038

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Re: Are we responsible of our HIV infection ?
« Reply #58 on: December 11, 2008, 05:20:41 PM »
Just in case it's missed, and so it's clear that I'm still a member of these forums and I'm entitled to voice my opinion as a Member I have added this to my post #18.

"I would like John, Leatherman and others to know that I posted this as a Member and not as a Moderator of these forums"

Jan

As far as I know, Leatherman haven't post in this thread.
So I guess he have contacted you privately, and probably you may want to respect this privacy. Respecting me seems already optional, I am not asking that from you. If you can raise your voice as a member, so I can: try to make this place a better place. If you have something against me, you can still contact me by pm, what you never did. So far, you are still posting under your "Global Moderator" nickname, and as such, you may want to use another nick, where this function doesn't appears.

EDIT
As a member and moderator, you should know that if a discussion is not interesting you, you just have to ignore it, as you can ignore a member when you are reading as a member.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2008, 05:26:00 PM by John2038 »

Offline PeteNYNJ

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Re: Are we responsible of our HIV infection ?
« Reply #59 on: December 11, 2008, 05:30:02 PM »
Quote
I think I've been more focused on how my character is molded by HIV and how I learn to live with HIV.  What it means for my relationships, family etc.  What it means for my mental and emotional health.

I think if I focused on ideas like guilt, blame and fault, it would be difficult for me to do the positive and proactive things I think I need to be part of.
Quote



John - reread the above quote Marco posted about 10 more times.  He hits it on the head. 
« Last Edit: December 11, 2008, 05:32:08 PM by PeteNYNJ »

Offline mecch

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Re: Are we responsible of our HIV infection ?
« Reply #60 on: December 11, 2008, 07:32:23 PM »
Ok, now besides being an intellectual trainwreck of a thread, it's replete with pitiable syntax and grammar.  This must be an homage to the departing President Bush.

Maybe I should take that back, if some of you are non-native speakers of English, my apologies.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2008, 07:37:40 PM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline madbrain

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Re: Are we responsible of our HIV infection ?
« Reply #61 on: December 11, 2008, 10:19:17 PM »
I voted "other". Please rephrase the poll question in a way that makes more sense.

The question implies that everybody was infected through unprotected sex, but several members have pointed out that wasn't true.

Another member rightfully pointed out that knowledge about the existence of HIV and it being sexually transmitted, and many contracted HIV before this was known, so they can't be considered responsible for getting it.

Another member mentioned that protection measured failed - a condom broke. Now whose fault do you want that to be ? The condom users for misusing them ? Or the manufacturer ? And why does the answer matter ?

Others may have gotten it at birth from their mothers. Are they responsible ?

Then there are those who have gotten it through IV drugs. They aren't included in your question, either. Neither are those who were treated at hospitals reusing syringes and got a special gift.

I will make one more point - some people have gotten HIV through non-consensual unprotected sex, ie. rape. I didn't see anyone chime in about that. But certainly rape victims couldn't be considered to be responsible for their infection either.

For everyone else, the subset of us who indeed contracted the virus through consensual, unprotected sex, with knowledge of the risks entailed, I think yes, we always have some share of responsibility.

I think very few of us actively went out of our way to get HIV and practiced unprotected sex in order to contract it (ie. bug chasers), and other than for that case, cannot be considered entirely responsible for their infection.

To speak only about my personal experience, I think that I underestimated the risks of unprotected oral sex transmission of HIV, and the added risk factor from my bad gums, and I believe that's what led to my infection, though I can't be certain. I could probably have prevented it by not having unprotected oral sex, or by always using condoms for oral sex. I didn't do that, and so I'm responsible for the consequence now.

I don't believe however that I'm the only one to bear that responsibility. Whoever transmitted the virus to me is also partially responsible too, for accepting to engage in unsafe sex with an allegedly uninfected person, if they knew about their own infection. And if they didn't know, then I think whoever transmitted it to them (through sex, syringe, or other) would also be partially responsible. Ultimately it most likely traces back to somebody who knew about it and still wasn't safe.

In the end, I think the question is quite pointless. What are we going to do if we find the specific answer for each infection ? What's the punishment going to be ? Should we jail all the responsible parties - which would include ourselves ? Should we be considered any less worthy of receiving treatment because we could have prevented our own infection ? Really, what was the point of your question, John ?

The past cannot be changed - the virus cannot be removed from the body yet. The only beneficial things we can do are to try to advance science to change that fact, and raise awareness about safe sex, so that the same mistakes are not repeated, and infection rates go down.

Offline Angel-Ronnie

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Re: Are we responsible of our HIV infection ?
« Reply #62 on: December 12, 2008, 10:07:52 AM »
well, slap me silly if I could, here are some of you I feel i'll give a hug a kiss and say you are awesome, why I say this a few months ago I was walking in a shopping center here in Johannesburg and the guy I think infected me he was also there and here for more than two years I thought i am going to give him a piece of me , well so I thought it never happened though as I looked at him I wanted to kiss him right there and then, because I realized how can I blame him, how can I blame myself, I couldn't and it showed me I have forgiven myself and him and stopped asking questions I am at ease relaxed and spiritually stronger than what I was in 2006, it happened we need to build a bridge and get over it, hiv is not gonna go away and we need to face the reality of our lives and that is why we are fabulous positively inhanced Angels we have come a long way to where we are so stop asking and blaming look within to forgive.

you are all gorgeous MWAH
Bide the Wiccan law ye must,
In perfect love and perfect trust
Eight words the Wiccan Rede fulfill
An' ye harm none, do what ye will.

What ye send forth comes back to thee,
so ever mind the Law of three,
follow this with mind and heart,
Merry ye meet, and merry ye part.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Are we responsible of our HIV infection ?
« Reply #63 on: December 12, 2008, 01:33:21 PM »
Hey Fallen,

Completely agree that an attitude of "blame" is not helpful in getting on with life. I appreciated hearing about your experience in the mall.   

Getting on with life seems to me to be what ought to be the real focus pretty much always. We each may have our regrets, resentments and leftover feelings about how we got to where we are today. Those feelings have to be respected. And then there is a time to really let go. Which I know isn't always easy, but it can be done. In my experience it's worth effort.

And finally,  along the way I want to put in some words for kindness and tolerance of those whose mode of expression is annoying or different from your own.

Even when I don't always agree with what I am reading, I know there are angels on this site.

Hope you're all having a good day today.

Cheers.
Andy Velez

Offline YaKaMein

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Re: Are we responsible of our HIV infection ?
« Reply #64 on: December 12, 2008, 03:04:54 PM »
As a rape survivor and as a result, now a survivor with HIV, it was puzzling to me how to respond to the poll. Madbrain raised some good points. Besides the poor construction of the question, it also struck me as not being a very constructive question either [not that we can't have useful discourse in face of such flaws]. Like others, I focus on more productive, future concerns than looking back to find blame, fault perspectives. I'm not implying that our histories are useless; but, we serve ourselves better to find what is useful and use that to create positive outcomes in our futures as we deal with all the surprises in our present, daily lives. IMHO, there are so many of us in this forum who face constant struggles. I'd rather us discuss responsibility in regards to sharing great strengths and insights to help and support each other. -YaKa
« Last Edit: December 12, 2008, 03:06:26 PM by YaKaMein »
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Offline Queen Tokelove

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Re: Are we responsible of our HIV infection ?
« Reply #65 on: December 12, 2008, 03:15:32 PM »
Well, I'll skip the bs between all these posts and make an attempt at trying to answer the question asked. Though after reading so many responses, I am almost confused to what the question was in the first place, uh.....Are we responsible for our infection......

For one, I wouldn't even make an attempt to try to assume anyone is responsible for their infections. There is too many scenarios to even make an attempt and to me that would be making a judgement of others. I will say I don't think any of us here wanted to get this virus.

Now speaking for myself, I got it from an ex who knew he was infected. A man I had been with for five years so yeah, condoms got ditched awhile back. The reason being I had put my trust in this person considering we had been together for so long. Was I wrong for trusting him, no, I don't think so. I was hurt and angry at him for some time but I got over it. Yeah, I could've put him in jail but I chose not to.


And I guess, I would be considered one of those who hides their status because if no one asks me, I don't tell....But then again do most of us run around telling our status? I am not saying this approach is right but it is what I chose to do for certain reasons. That is the demon I live with. When I am intimate with someone, a condom is always used. I have in the past brought up HIV to previous partners and their ignorance was amazing. I did try to share my knowledge but it pretty much got ignored or the topic changed.

Now don't get me wrong, it's not like I have never told anyone my status, I have. But 9 out of 10 times it became a disaster. And I have family cheerleaders who have took it upon themselves to tell my status for me. This is ongoing, so does that make them right?


PS.... I chose not to answer the poll.
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Offline John2038

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Re: Are we responsible of our HIV infection ?
« Reply #66 on: December 12, 2008, 03:33:17 PM »
I fully agree that the question is confusing.

I should have ask:

Vous sentez-vous responsable de votre infection ?

Instead of:

Sommes-nous responsable [individuellement] de notre infection ?

The latter have a meaning in french (more polite form), but I realize that this kind of formulation is confusing when it is literally translated to English.

So the question should have been something like:

Do you feel responsible of your HIV infection ?

We could have call it a Molière side effect. My apologizes for that.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2008, 09:54:23 AM by John2038 »

Offline Tim Horn

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Re: Are we responsible of our HIV infection ?
« Reply #67 on: December 12, 2008, 03:58:22 PM »
As a member and moderator, you should know that if a discussion is not interesting you, you just have to ignore it, as you can ignore a member when you are reading as a member.

John:

I suggest refraining from instructing Jan on what she can and cannot do as a moderator of this site. Fact is, she is both a member and a moderator and is certainly entited to her opinions -- notably when she is speaking as an HIV-positive member of these boards [and I'm thankful that she clarified her statement as such] -- although, personally, I could have done without the salty language. John, whenever you see an official warning or time out, that's Jan, Ann, Andy, Peter or me acting as a moderator... when it's anything other than that, you're hearing from a member.... capisce?

While we're at it, I should point out that it is you keeping the discussion in this thread going and continually engaging those whom you neither respect or care to hear from. You've started, and continued, and provocative thread here -- one, that I read, as you attempting to justify assigning blame for your infection -- and people are responding in kind. All I'll say is this... if you can't stand the heat, I suggest getting out of the kitchen.

Tim Horn

« Last Edit: December 12, 2008, 04:10:43 PM by Tim Horn »

 


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