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Author Topic: Gym and CD 4  (Read 2283 times)

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Offline lucas777

  • Member
  • Posts: 60
  • 'Know Thy Self '
Gym and CD 4
« on: January 18, 2009, 07:30:45 PM »
Hi all !!!
  I started to feel MUCH MUCH better (lack of strength and energy)after taking pharmaton) and I'm thinking of on starting weight training 'cause I'm loosing my shape and thats makes me depressed, the problem is that  my CD4 is low 159 or 179 (cant remember)  and it's been low since 2004 with the highest 211 and looking back when I was doing gym for a while soon after I had to stop it because I was getting chest infection, thyroid problem and other things. I know it could be related to HIV or post pegasys side-effects and may have nothing to do with weight training and low CD4 but I just want to be sure before I start the weights . My question - is low CD4 and weight training could be a not good idea?
thank you in advance.
Best wishes
Lukas
"Give me a sense of humor, Lord, Give me the grace to see a joke,
To get some humor out of life, and pass it on to others."

Offline newt

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,878
  • the one and original newt
Re: Gym and CD 4
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2009, 08:04:34 PM »
Au contraire, exercise is good for your immune system as long as you don't overdo it.

it's a good idea, just take it gentle, start light, rest 2-3 days between workouts. And s-t-r-e-t-c-h. It's important, prevents injuries and inflammation, which are not good. << I sound like my bloody doc talking here  ;D

- matt
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline next2u

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,761
Re: Gym and CD 4
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2009, 11:53:37 PM »
i just started back myself. my doc tells me it is good for me to exercise. ever since the last diagnosis ive had to give up drinking so i dont have hangovers as a convenient excuse for not going anymore.

hey, have you heard anything about the gym, creatine & hcv? there is a small amount of creatine in my gym energy supplements and i didnt want to overload the liver. also, can i still smoke herb occasionally?

best,
d
midapr07 - seroconversion
sept07 - tested poz
oct07 cd4 1013; vl 13,900; cd4% 41
feb08 cd4  694;  vl 16,160; cd4% 50.1
may08 cd4 546; vl 91,480; cd4% 32
aug08 cd4 576; vl 48,190; cd4% 40.7
dec08 cd4 559; vl 63,020; cd4% 29.4
feb09 cd4 464; vl 11,000; cd4% 26
may09 cd4 544; vl 29,710; cd4% 27.2
oct09 cd4 ...; vl 23,350; cd4% 31.6
mar10 cd4 408; vl 59,050; cd4% 31.4
aug10 cd4 328; vl 80,000; cd4% 19.3 STARTED ATRIPLA
oct10 cd4 423; vl 410 ;); cd4% 30.2
jun11 cd4 439; vl <20 ;); cd4% 33.8 <-Undetectable!
mar12 cd4 695; vl ud; cd4% 38.6
jan13 cd4 738; vl ud; cd4% 36.8
aug13 cd4 930; vl ud; cd4% 44.3
jan14 cd4 813; vl ud; cd4% 42.8
may14 cd4 783; vl *; cd4%43.5

Seadickrun

  • Guest
Re: Gym and CD 4
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2009, 01:36:30 AM »
I workout at home regularly and swear by it.  I start with lots of stretching since I'm an old guy and if its my workout day and I have been throwing up or something, I skip that day and pickup again the next day.  If I still feel like crap, I workout anyway but drop the weights for each exercise even its nothing more than just the bare bar.  I always feel better afterwards and make sure I eat a high protein diet in that first hour. 

I just saw a news report that some study had proven that exercise was good for mental health (a no brainer) and experts might start recommending exercise as part of the regimen. 

Aside from the health benefits, you just look better which improves anyone's self esteem and that has to give a boost to any immune system. 

As for the herb, my last three doctors have written me a letter recommending I use medical marijuana (I live in Washington State and its legal here) and all of my poz friends except one have letters as well. The one friend who doesn't have a letter seems to have an allergic reaction to the stuff and one day was just in the room with us when we were smoking and his throat started closing up.  He also has allergic reactions to oregano and rosemary as well.  Since I'm not a doctor, I'm not going to recommend anyone else use it.

Offline LTSurviver

  • Member
  • Posts: 117
  • LTS since 1987. LTNP until 2008.
Re: Gym and CD 4
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2009, 09:24:23 AM »
I'm an LTS, 22 years.  I'm also a natural body builder.

While in the long run exercise is good for your immune system, in the short run it can devastate it.  Your immune system dips for a short time when you train hard, and over-training can make it worse.  For years my cd4 count hovered between 160 and 180.  During that time if I was not very careful about how I trained, I would get outbreaks of shingles and various other infections.  Especially when I was doing extra cardio to drop fat.

So if your count is that low, exercise can be good but you need to use moderation.  It's very easy to over-train and open yourself up to infections.  I learned that the hard way.

Offline hikeandbikedude

  • Member
  • Posts: 13
  • June 2009
Re: Gym and CD 4
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2009, 01:22:29 PM »
Hi Lucas - good luck with the workout regimen! I just started some hardcore training in late September (cardio, abs & weights) and feel great and have tremendous energy.

Haven't had blood work done since I started (coming soon though) so I can't comment on your specific question. But I can agree with the earlier posters who say go for it - just pay attention to your situation and what your body is telling you.

I think any process that helps us question our beliefs and stretches us to new levels of personal development is a good process. Again, good luck!
"In the long run, we shape our lives, and we shape ourselves. The process never ends until we die. And the choices we make are ultimately our responsibility." - Eleanor Roosevelt

Offline denb45

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,051
  • "1987 Classic Old School POZ+"
Re: Gym and CD 4
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2009, 01:45:17 PM »
I actualy dropped my work-out routine, ( 25 min of cardio and 30 mins of wieght lifting, for a total of 60 min.) to every 2 days form every other day, I feel much better ,and by doing this I don't get all the muscle sorness stiffness, you have to give your muscles and body time to heal.........also, it's Winter time, so, I'm less active, than I would be in the Summer, can't wait until late May-June, so, I can get back on my 12 speed bike, I kinda miss the 9 miles I use to do every other day, I have a recumbent-bike in the house next to the Bowflex, but it's not the same as my 12 speed bike, but right now it's way too cold to ride it  ???
« Last Edit: January 19, 2009, 01:51:45 PM by denb45 »
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline lucas777

  • Member
  • Posts: 60
  • 'Know Thy Self '
Re: Gym and CD 4
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2009, 03:16:06 PM »
Hi all!!
BIG thanks to all really appreciate it  lots of good information, experience and advice . Good stuff.
 take them on board . I'm gonna take it easy , in the past I was overdoing it now I can see it,

regarding creatine
 it will help you increase mass and strength. but alot of the size gains you make will be water retention. after stopping it you will lose some size and strength but you will still be bigger and stronger than when you started. also it is usually recommended that you have a break of a few weeks from creatine every now and then. Know nothing about damaging liver never heard of it(talk to your doc.) also you need to drink lots of water with it.     (I used  to mix it with my protein. )

 thanks guys.

<NO PAIN NO GAIN> ;)
"Give me a sense of humor, Lord, Give me the grace to see a joke,
To get some humor out of life, and pass it on to others."

Offline clsoca

  • Member
  • Posts: 164
Re: Gym and CD 4
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2009, 04:22:07 PM »
I have been a gym rat all of my life and have worked at several gyms in Southern Calif. I want to share with you that I  have seen more people fail than succeed in achieving their goals. Below are my personal thoughts on beginning an exercise routine.

You must incorporate exercises and routines you enjoy or at least can tolerate.  I have seen countless people try to force themselves to comply to a routine they hate and without fail they all eventually give up and I never see them again. So my advise is to explore all of the routines out there and earmark the routines you enjoy or can tolerate. As time passes your routine preferences will change. For example, I use to despise working out my legs. 10 years later it is one of my favorite routines. So don't get hung up on the perfect routine. Stay focused at doing something rather than nothing.

Another piece of advise is to not exercise  to look good or loose weight or have better health.  I know this sounds ridiculous. But it is all about motivation and a mind set. My advise is evertime you enter the gym, your mindset is to build strength and endurance. When you can lift more weights today than yesterday, that is success and everthing else will take care of itself (such as weight control, health, looking better etc.). I have seen so many people wast countless hours working out their Abs, when the time should have been dedicated to building overall body strength.

As far as creatine, it is my very strong advise that you consume loads of water and advise you ID Doc. One of the best books for beginners is by Hugo Rivera, "The Body Sculpting Bible for Men."  It is one of the most honest and informative books I have ever read.

Over training can and will cause you to get sick. For example, it is well known that athletes commonly get sick more so than ordinary folks. Another issue, always wear weight lifting gloves and wash them regularly. There are lots of germs in a gym. The modern gyms are trying hard to keep their gyms more sanitized but its still not enough. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER rub your eyes with your hands while at the gym. I know people who have caught pink eye and skin infections at the gym.

Anyhow, these are my few little thoughts.

   
10/07 Infected
11/07 Seroconversion
07/08 Tested Poz
07/08 VL 487  CD4 658  (No Meds)
10/08 VL 286  CD4 724  (No Meds)
01/24/09 VL 30,100   CD4 329 CD4 30% (No Meds)
02/06/09 VL 44,000   CD4 367 CD4 36%  Blood Work @ UCLA (No Meds)
02/06/09 VL 44,000   CD4 317 CD4 35% Blood Work @ USC (No Meds)
02/12/09 VL 52,000   CD4 297 CD4 29%
02/12/09  Started Atripla
04/01/09 VL 60  CD4 667   CD4 48%
06-05-09  VL UD CD4 427   CD4 39%

Offline lucas777

  • Member
  • Posts: 60
  • 'Know Thy Self '
Re: Gym and CD 4
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2009, 05:37:05 AM »
Thanks clsoca for that appreciate it!!
"Give me a sense of humor, Lord, Give me the grace to see a joke,
To get some humor out of life, and pass it on to others."

Offline LPinUK

  • Member
  • Posts: 58
Re: Gym and CD 4
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2009, 04:45:46 PM »
Great post, clsoca, thanks.
Diagnosed Poz September 2003, Current Regimen Truvada & Sustiva.

Offline clsoca

  • Member
  • Posts: 164
Re: Gym and CD 4
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2009, 09:48:11 PM »
Thanks guys.

I did want to add one more point that I feel is truly misrepresented.

I have been told by the so-called experts and have read too many times now that exercise has no effect on increasing cd4 cells or reducing viral loads. I have spent quite a  bit of time reviewing the research and strongly feel the residual impact of exercising has never been included into the research. Exercise does a lot of positive things to your body. The MayoClinic published the follow 7 benefits of exercising:

1) Reduces stress
2) Combats diseases including cancer and type 2 diabetes
3) Weight control
4) Strengthens your heart and lungs
5) Promotes better sleep
6) Improve sex life
7) Exercise can be  fun

While it may be true that exercise by itself does not help raise cd4 counts and reduce viral loads, what about the other benefits of exercise. I know reducing stress and better sleep has been proven to raise cd4 counts and lower viral loads. When I first learned that I had this intruder in my body, I read a book titled "The First Year HIV." I was disappointed that the book advised the newly infected that exercise does not help fight HIV (page 160). The book was very good and very informative, I just wished that this was left out of the book. Anyhow, this is just my personal opinion and I may be wrong in the end.
10/07 Infected
11/07 Seroconversion
07/08 Tested Poz
07/08 VL 487  CD4 658  (No Meds)
10/08 VL 286  CD4 724  (No Meds)
01/24/09 VL 30,100   CD4 329 CD4 30% (No Meds)
02/06/09 VL 44,000   CD4 367 CD4 36%  Blood Work @ UCLA (No Meds)
02/06/09 VL 44,000   CD4 317 CD4 35% Blood Work @ USC (No Meds)
02/12/09 VL 52,000   CD4 297 CD4 29%
02/12/09  Started Atripla
04/01/09 VL 60  CD4 667   CD4 48%
06-05-09  VL UD CD4 427   CD4 39%

Offline John2038

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,529
  • Happiness is a journey, not a destination.
    • HIV Research News (Twitter)
Re: Gym and CD 4
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2009, 05:43:51 PM »

Offline lucas777

  • Member
  • Posts: 60
  • 'Know Thy Self '
Re: Gym and CD 4
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2009, 01:50:02 PM »
Hi all!!!
thanks John ,clsoca and others very usuful and helphul informations. good stuff
I'm  after my second 'session' this week (30 minuts each)  I did some streching and push ups and gonna keep that way thru some time I think till i go thru the lactic acid phase, stiffness and all the rest, Ill keep it light- 2 days  break between gym.
After first gym session(Tuesday) I was sneezing a bit and next day in the morning I woke up with a taste in my mouth as if I had sore throat and it went away during the day, my cd4 is 159 (was 3 months ago) but not sure if it was cd4-gym related. anyways I love this feeling of sense of well being afterwards ,I've missed that, almost 14 months past since my last training.(had to stop it due illness) but now I'm back ;D . Strange how easy is to take things for granted not even knowing about it , now I really appreciate every minut in the gym . also I want to ask do someone knows any good protein,weight gainer but not too dear up to 35 there is a full market of them not sure that they all good. also a question regarding long-term surv.  how many years with HIV is long-term surviver? I was diagnosed in 93 or 94 at age 17 now I'm 31 but feel like I was only 15 ;D. I think thats gonna be result of a long drug addiction sometimes I think that I stopped growing up since I started using heroin now gotta lots to catch up on,
anyways thanks all . really like this forum and people here.
"Give me a sense of humor, Lord, Give me the grace to see a joke,
To get some humor out of life, and pass it on to others."

 


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