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Author Topic: Fell in love with positive man after sex but he didn't tell me. What would u do?  (Read 9027 times)

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Offline Danigar

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I understand this is more of a moral question and it really depends on the personality of the reader but I wanted to throw this question to the air and get some opinions.

I had unprotected sex with a man with whom I established an amazing connection the first and only time we met. I fell in love with him and we continued in touch by e-mail.
After letting him know about my feelings for him he had to admit at one point that he was positive. I was devastated for not having been told from the start. After a while I managed to forgive him (after some very genuine e-mails expressing his absolute regret and guilt) and see him as an imperfect human being as we all are and decided that my feelings for him wouldn't change even if he was positive. I had been in a serodiscordant relationship for 4-5 months years before and totally embraced it (although the relationship failed for reasons not related to HIV), but dealing with the fact that this man hadn't been honest with me from the start has made it really hard for me to totally accept it, specially if we are going to give it a go at it. Personally I would probably had told the other person if I was positive, but this is difficult to know unless you experience being positive first hand.
I just want to know how would a positive person see a situation like that and what would you think about a person like that. Would you be able to forgive that person totally and try to establish a relationship? Would you see that man as a potential murderer and never reconcile with the thought of him having exposed your health selfishly?

Any comments would be very appreciated and hopefully help me move on into or out of this potential relationship...

Thanks so much,

Daniel

Offline kentb

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Daniel, while he should have told you upfront about his status, it is your responsibility to assume everyone you sleep with is HIV positive and therefore take the precautions to protect yourself.  I have been in a mixed status rel. for 5.5 yrs. it can and does work.

Good Luck!

Kent

Offline Danigar

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Hi Kent,

you are right about that, but that is only a way to deal with it. It helps to always assume everyone you sleep with has HIV but if you think that way, your sexual encounters are always going to be influenced by that thought. You do not go out to the street assuming that you can die at any moment by being ran over by a car or a falling tree. You go out to the street careless about things like that. Given the choice I think that telling the other person is always the best one, but it takes a certain maturity. I would definitely do tell the other person. Most probably I would look for other positive partners too, simply because I wouldn't forgive myself if knowingly, I had put someone at risk.
Clearing my own conscience after having unprotected sex with a negative person by thinking people should go about assuming everyone could be HIV positive is simply wrong.

Offline kentb

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Daniel, yes that's it exactly...your sexual encounters should be influenced by the thought that the other partner could be HIV positive.  Not just positive for HIV, but a host of other STDs that are way easier to catch than HIV.
 I'm not judging you but you should not be having unprotected sex unless and until you are in a secure/closed relationship and the two of you are tested together. Then and only then can you know the status of your potential partner.  Many people will tell you they are negative because they simply don't know their status  and they may have taken many high risks and just be afraid to get tested. 
You should always protect yourself because having HIV is no picnic.
Kent

Offline blondbeauty

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The fact he didnt tell you and had unprotected sex with you doesnt speak in his favour. But if you like him go for it.
The only member in these forums approved by WINBA: World International Nail and Beauty Association.
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Offline Danigar

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Thanks Blond Beauty,

My heart tells me to do that, to give it a try. And I most probably will when the circumstances allow for it...

Thanks

Daniel

Offline david25luvit

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I'm with blondbeauty...his silence or lack of disclosure doesn't say much for his character but at the same time you should have protected yourself.... and you might keep in mind that guilt only last for so long....
Forgive me for saying so but I can't help but wonder if he's having unprotected sex with other people

And if he is...How would you feel about that?
In Memory of
Raymond David McRae III
Nov. 25, 1972- Oct. 15, 2004
I miss him terribly..........

Offline newt

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Well he did tell you, if a bit late.  This is not to forgive non-disclosure in situations sans condoms. Though it takes two to have unprotected sex.

Disclosure is not easy. Using condoms is not always easy.

You think he's an evil rat, move on. You like him, forgive him and fall in love (with condoms, though this is a choice, and I do have to say IMHO "you should not be having unprotected sex unless.." is the wrong answer for me, I believe people should make the decisions and trades on risk, intimacy and pleasure they want to, ideally based on the fullest information - avoiding HIV is not the be all and end all of sex and love, clearly, most people in postive-negative relationships will choose condoms for sex with a high risk of transmission, but not all of them, and boy do they get shit if people find out, even though it's no-one's damn business but theirs).

- matt "autonomous" the newt
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline Ann

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Quote
You do not go out to the street assuming that you can die at any moment by being ran over by a car...

No, maybe not. But I DO look both ways before I cross the street.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Danigar

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To david25luvit,

I think he has truly learnt from this experience in the sense that sometimes hiding important information from someone who could potentially fall in love with you it is always a bad start. Not telling is only protecting your ego and allowing you to have sex without rejection. He has learnt that there are still people out there (the ones that really should matter to any positive person if what they want is to establish a loving, trust-based relationship) that can take the risk and see the person before the condition. Establishing trust is important with or without HIV. Obviously I see things differently as if I have sex with someone it is about the connection with the other person and not about sexually gratifying myself. Sex is about soul and flesh connecting. Sex with another human being should be as spiritual as it is physical, but most of the time we don't transcend the physical and do not connect or want to connect with the other person and that is what makes us chose protecting our ego before someone else's health.

I think it is a questiong of power. The person in the know (positive) should place additional precautions in place when the non-positive is overlooking having protected sex. I don't buy the "If he doesn't ask me, then I do not have the obligation to say it or make it safe and I am doing the right thing" I do not understand why someone can be so selfish. I think it is wrong. And that is why I find it so hard to reconcile with.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2006, 06:30:32 PM by Danigar »

Offline jkinatl2

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Quote
I do not understand why someone can be so selfish. I think it is wrong. And that is why I find it so hard to reconcile with.

I submit you may be planting in salted earth at this point.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline jordan

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this is all new to me....but I was under the impression that having sex without disclosure was illegal....am I missing something?

If you think your lonely now, wait until tonight.

Offline jkinatl2

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this is all new to me....but I was under the impression that having sex without disclosure was illegal....am I missing something?



Depends on where you live. Some states have enacted legislation, others enacted legislation during the mid eighties and nineties, when modes of transmission and avenues for treatment were very sketchy.

Not certain why that's relevant to this thread though, unless you are suggesting that the original poster file a criminal complaint :)



"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline jordan

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Not certain why that's relevant to this thread though, unless you are suggesting that the original poster file a criminal complaint :)



When I read the following:

I was devastated for not having been told from the start. After a while I managed to forgive him


I was simply trying to understand if not disclosing was only criminal in Michigan or across the US.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2006, 07:26:24 PM by jordan »
If you think your lonely now, wait until tonight.

Offline jkinatl2

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HIV disclosure laws in the USA by state (circa 2000):

http://www.aclu.org/hiv/gen/11543res20000601.html

HIV disclosure laws in Europe:


http://www.aidsmap.com/en/news/9FFE7EA6-2E16-4376-8FC4-A8E82B6325A2.asp



PS: I wasn't trying to be harsh. I was just concerned that this thread would degenerate into yet another HIV disclosure law debate thread. We've got, like, seven of those floating around already, and I thought the original poster deserves more personal attention.


« Last Edit: July 31, 2006, 07:43:21 PM by jkinatl2 »
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline fearless

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stevie, nibbles on bait..... then decides to move on.
Be forgiving, be grateful, be optimistic

Offline jkinatl2

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stevie, nibbles on bait..... then decides to move on.

:) point well, well taken

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Eldon

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Hello Daniel, it is Eldon. First of all I wanted to welcome you to the forums where you can share with others what you are going through and get opinions on the topics you choose. We are a loving and supportive group.

Now, I'm going to keep it real with you. From the beginning, your potential partner didn't disclose that he was HIV positive to you. That's not a good start as he should have told you if trust was anywhere in the picture. This was a on-time event and you both had unprotected sex. I don't know if it was the heat of the moment but, you seriously put yourself at risk for exposure to HIV.

Since then, I understand that you both have been e-mailing each other and he is displaying his regret or felling guilty that he didn't tell you. You have been in a 4-5 month relationship and you are missing the love that you once had. This is overflowing into this present relationship. Are you basing the relationship on sex? Try not to confuse the two.

As David (david25luvit) has put it, "Forgive me for saying so but I can't help but wonder if he is having unprotected sex with other people? And if he is...How would you feel about that?"

This is something you should consider when forming this relationship, AND just as the others has said, You should always use protection for prevention no matter who your partner may be, even at the heat of the moment..

You should carefully consider the odds with this relationship as trust has to be built for this relationship as it did not have a honest start from the very beginning.

Offline newt

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I used to get well fed up with HIV-negative guys pushing to screw without condoms, that's why, by steps, I disclosed in more and more obvious ways.  It don't make any difference. Even if I come straight out with it they still push for no condoms.  Or even assume I will screw with no condoms cos I'm HIV-positive.  Right. Get a life HIV-negative boys, it is kinda tedious to have to be sex nanny for your overlooking your own protection, and all the other things that's going on in your head about HIV-positive people (like, they must be well into sex with loads of guys all the time without condoms).  We are not ciphers for some deep gay fantasy about unbounded sexual engagement leading to some kind of epiphany (sans condoms).  We are not feckless. We are not your father or mother.

Now I don;t get fed up, I just keep them out my bed.

Mr D, clearly you like sex without condoms.  Do us a favour and admit this to yourself, and decide how you;s gonna get a relationship which allows you to have this intimate experience safely without dumping the responsibility for you staying negative on any HIV-positive people you encounter on the way there.

You asked for a view, this is mine.  Sorry if it's blunt or rude, I's usually a model of reasonablity and restraindness, but in this case I am (in a class action kinda way) hacked off by the topic.

- matt
« Last Edit: August 01, 2006, 03:50:57 AM by newt »
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline jkinatl2

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Bravo, Matt! Bravo!
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline ryeguy

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Before my partner and I came together and before we had sex I told him. Not only because it is the right thing to do, but I also knew from the start how much I loved him. I think if you truly love someone, and YOURSELF you would not expose anyone, let alone someone you love to hiv.
If I were in your shoes the trust would have been broken from the very start.
I hope your pain can be soothed with time. For the record my partner is hiv negative, we have been together for 2 years.

Offline Jeffreyj

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Why in the HELL didn't you ask him if he was HIV+ before you had sex with him? You are a grown adult, I assume...why not start acting like a responsible one?
Positive since 1985

Offline Gilles

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Daniel I think it was very irresponsible of him...and to be honest you shouldnt go for him. He was probably scared to tell you...in case you would reject him...but at the end of the day I rather be rejected than put someone in a same position than me.

to show that you care for someone and to have a responsibility, I think, are very important qualities of a person and he obviously did not have any of them...at least towards you. He at least should have use the protection.

I know you think you are in love now, but if you will get infected and things won't work out with him and you...it will be a big regret.

obviously I don't understand your circumstances fully but I think sometimes its better to be given advice from a third party because they are more sensible than people who are in love...who follow their instincts rather than what is best for them.

Offline blondbeauty

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Not disclosing illegal? This is unbelieavable and absurd. If everybody disclosed and disclosed the truth condoms would not be neccesary. And if you have syphilis and do not disclose...or have a cold and do not disclose...Is that illegal? If not...Is it because those are curable diseases?
I think this legislation is ridiculous. Negative people are responsible for their own health. I was also negative till 2002. We have all been negative. I became positive for my own fault.
If you smoke and get lung cancer dont blame Marlboro, blame yourself for doing something you know is bad for you. Nobody forces anyone to have sex with no condoms. And most people use condoms without asking their partner if they are HIV+, so this means everybody asumes they could be having sex with an HIV+ person without knowing. Therefor protection is required.
My choice is to use condoms from now own: i dont want to pass it to anybody else or to catch another STD, but I wont disclose my status to a one night lover and spoil the moment.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2006, 08:43:30 AM by blondbeauty »
The only member in these forums approved by WINBA: World International Nail and Beauty Association.
Epstein Barr +; CMV +; Toxoplasmosis +; HIV-1 +.
Counts when starting treatment:
V.L.:80.200 copies. CD4: 25%=503
Started Sustiva-Truvada 14/August/2006
Last V.L.count (Oct 2013): Undetectable
Last CD4 count (OCT 2013): 52%= 933

Offline Jeffreyj

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Well said, Blondbeauty, well said indeed!
Positive since 1985

Offline Gilles

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It is only illegal if you have hiv and do not use a condom. If you use protection, you are safe.

ChicagoMike

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Daniel,

Have you been tested? In my opinion, you cannot be in love with someone after the first time you meet.  That's just me, I believe there is infatuation which can build into love, but don't believe that a couple can jump right into being in love from the get go.

Whenever I would start dating someone, I would look for core qualities in that person.  I would try my best to decipher the other persons actions and read for myself what type of person I believed them to be based on what I perceived. The characteristic that was ALWAYS at the top of my list was character.  Did they closely match the attributes I valued most and was looking for in a life partner?

If I were you, I would not waste any of your time on this guy.  Look into your own actions, learn from this experience and move forward with your life without this creep.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2006, 10:44:31 AM by ChicagoMike »

Offline david25luvit

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Danigar...

                 I have known love and know the difference between sex and making love.  Something that David taught me when we first got together.  During sex one night he made the comment..."I know you can fuck me...but can you make love to me?'  And that night I came to the shocking realization that indeed I had been fucking him and not making love to him ...someone I loved more than life itself.  Being gay and having had sex with so many guys in the past I suppose I wanted to be a great sex partner but that's a far cry from actually MAKING LOVE WITH SOMEONE YOU CHERISH.  From that moment on ...our sex took on a whole new hue and flavor.  Making love with David became the most spiritual and emotional display of physical affection I had ever known...So Yes, I do understand the difference.

                  My concern was for you.  I hope he did learn how important it is to be honest and upfront about his HIV status and whether it is illegal or not in most states...I believe disclosure is the the right thing to do.  That's not to say everyone agrees with me.  You didn't mention it but does he feel the same way about you now.  Have you discussed having a committed relationship?
« Last Edit: August 01, 2006, 11:48:48 AM by david25luvit »
In Memory of
Raymond David McRae III
Nov. 25, 1972- Oct. 15, 2004
I miss him terribly..........

Offline blondbeauty

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Mr Scruff; i have just recieved and e-mail from nam.org and the main subjest is travel. It says:  In some countries (and individual US states) it is a crime for an HIV-positive person to have even protected sex without first disclosing their HIV status.
Also entering the USA being HIV+ is difficult.
Here is all the information regarding this issue in this swiss website:
http://www.aidsnet.ch/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=246
« Last Edit: August 01, 2006, 10:24:09 AM by blondbeauty »
The only member in these forums approved by WINBA: World International Nail and Beauty Association.
Epstein Barr +; CMV +; Toxoplasmosis +; HIV-1 +.
Counts when starting treatment:
V.L.:80.200 copies. CD4: 25%=503
Started Sustiva-Truvada 14/August/2006
Last V.L.count (Oct 2013): Undetectable
Last CD4 count (OCT 2013): 52%= 933

Offline livingpositively

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I second the Bravo to Matt. 

I'm really quite shocked that the majority are so quick to jump on this other guy.  We don't know anything about the situation of the encounter.  Drunk?  High? Etc, Etc  So, while yes, the other guy may have a moral, ethical or even legal obligation to disclose, as has been stated already here and MANY times before in other threads, it takes two to tango.

I'm also amazed at the verbiage being thrown around in this thread that the "other guy" was so selfish, blah, blah, blah.  What about the complete LACK of a sense of self on the part of the OP.  I sincerely hope that  you are still negative, but reality is, the fault does not solely rest on your "partner's" shoulders.

Shane
4/6/07   CD4 450, % 23, No VL
2/19/07 CD4 487, % 26, VL 47,500
1/4/07   CD4 357, % 27, No VL
10/3/06 CD4 500, % 26, VL 18,000
7/6/06   CD4 530, % 29, VL 83,800
4/6/06   CD4 555, % 28, VL 13,000

Offline penguin

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What should you do?

sign round neck with big caps letters “I expect you to take responsibility for my actions” might help in future.

Don’t think, really, this is a question of love or trust. when you fall in love with someone, properly, you fall in love with everything, even the bits you dont yet know. And to be fair to him, he told you, so perhaps bit less of the “poor lied-to me” bit please mr?

Me, I’ll tell just about anyone I’m positive; lady in post office, bin man, people on bus…but it took me a good while to tell current partner. Not because I am coward, or evil virus spreader.  Because I am human being, n realised I’d just met an amazing person, beautiful, kind that makes your heart stop and gravity seem less of a force. And sometimes, sometimes, you just want to enjoy that, not have to see another person’s eyes change from “I like you, I’m attracted to you” to “I feel sorry for you, let me look after you” when you tell them. Or, worse, get trampled as they beat a hasty path to the door.

When people get in my car, unless theys under 4’ or lacking in the hand department, I expect them to buckle their own seatbelt.

When I love someone, I expect them to understand the difference between dishonesty and being not quite ready to tell.

Kate

Offline JR Gabbard

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I submit you may be planting in salted earth at this point.



Jonathon, you really are quite the poet!

J.R.
It goes like this
The fourth, the fifth,
The minor fall, the major lift,
The baffled king composing Hallelujah!

L. Cohen

Offline JR Gabbard

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   I agree with everything Matt said, except this:  we are "ciphers for some deep gay fantasy about unbounded sexual engagement leading to some kind of epiphany (sans condoms)" IOW recognition of the deeply spiritual dimensions of the sexual exchange of bodily fluids, made more thrilling by the risk of death; some of us are feckless; and we are both mothers and fathers.

   It is widely accepted that unprotected sex is highly risky behavior.  It is unacceptable that anyone with the intellectual ability to use a computer, or even to read a newspaper, should not be charged with full knowledge of that risk.

   When you engage in risky behavior knowing the risk involved, you assume the risk.  That is a straight-forward, long-standing legal doctrine.  It is also why I do not support criminalization of HIV transmission.  But that is another thread.

Hope that wasn't too legal  ;D

J.R.
It goes like this
The fourth, the fifth,
The minor fall, the major lift,
The baffled king composing Hallelujah!

L. Cohen

Offline carousel

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« Last Edit: February 15, 2007, 11:16:51 AM by carousel »

Offline penguin

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Sorry to hijack this, but  would just like to say a few words to the charming, charming person who pm’d me.  I assume in relation to this thread, and this one here:http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=2331.0

I am not ashamed of anything. Apart from maybe the pile of ironing which I am (trying) to hide in the spare room.

No, I am not a Quacker, or a Quaker for that matter, assuming that’s what you meant.  I do like their porridge oats though, if that helps?

The correct spelling for the words you were attempting to use are : j-u-n-k-i-e and w-h-o-r-e

And yes, in response to your other comment, I am. You got at least one thing right. How very perceptive of you. And the correct spelling for that word is d-y-k-e. (which you don’t get away with using , mr, unless yous one of the girls, joking, needing me to fix dvd or washing machine. And you’re not, unless I’m mistaken)

Out on a limb here, but maybe, maybe you could just try using my name ? (correct spelling, please) I tend to respond better.
Soap, now, please, wash out mouth.

Kate  >:(

Offline jkinatl2

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It is only illegal if you have hiv and do not use a condom. If you use protection, you are safe.

Actually, that might or might not be true depending on the state. In California, using protection absolutely seems to absolve a person legally. In Florida and Goergia and many other states, there is NO such caveat for protected sex.

Quote
Unlike the California statute, under most of these state statutes individuals can be prosecuted if they know they are infected and engage in sexual intercourse without disclosure. Some of the laws are even more broad and vague. In Alabama, you can be prosecuted for "conducting oneself in a manner likely to transmit the disease," and in South Carolina, for "exposing another person to HIV without first informing."


http://www.thebody.com/apla/may00/law.html


Here is an example, it's Arkansas' statute:

Quote
It is a class A felony for a person who knows that he or she has tested positive for HIV to expose another to HIV (1) through the transfer of blood or blood products or (2) by engaging in sexual intercourse, cunnilingus, fellatio, anal intercourse, or any other intrusion, however slight, of any part of a person’s body or of any object into the genital or anal openings of another person’s body, without first having informed the other person of the presence of HIV. The emission of semen is not a required element of the crime.

http://www.lambdalegal.org/cgi-bin/iowa/news/resources.html?record=361

This is why I am so against HIV disclosure laws. They are largely written with complete ignorance of  HIV transmission and with no regard for safer sex. They are arbitrarily enforced, and they place zero personal responsibility on the part of the negative partner. And in many cases, they do not even require successful transmission of HIV in order to stick.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline jkinatl2

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Kate, you are a classy lady.

Feel free to publish the dirtbag's name :)

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Dachshund

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Kate, I am always amazed by your honesty and your strength. I agree with Jonathan...you are the epitome of class.

XXXOOO
Hal

Offline newt

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Kate, like JK said, well classy post.  Scumbaggedly rude to send that kind of PM. 

- matt
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline lydgate

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Kate, I think you should expose the miserable douchebag as well; if you don't want to do that on this thread, then at least report him to the moderators. J.
Her finely-touched spirit had still its fine issues, though they were not widely visible. Her full nature, like that river of which Cyrus broke the strength, spent itself in channels which had no great name on the earth. But the effect of her being on those around her was incalculably diffusive: for the growing good of the world is partly dependent on unhistoric acts; and that things are not so ill with you and me as they might have been, is half owing to the number who lived faithfully a hidden life, and rest in unvisited tombs.

George Eliot, Middlemarch, final paragraph

Offline brandy

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Hi Daniel,
Let me just say that disclosing hiv/aids staus is hard for a lot of persons to do, there is always the fear of rejection,discrimonation and stigmatization.
That is not to say that it was ok for your partner not to disclose to you, but you also have the responsibility of protecting yourself, that is your responsibility, so although your patner was wrong for not disclosing you also have to share in the blame, you hear it everyday on the news, in ads, all around you, PARCTICE SAFE SEX.
I am saying this not to judge you, just being real, you have toassume that everyone you meet is hivt, you have to be RESPONSIBLE.
Now that you know his status, have you been tested?
That now is also your responsibility, we are no longer in the 80's, there is too much information out there.
I hope you find a way to reconcile this with him and with yourself.
LOL
Brandy

 


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