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Author Topic: What is in these Meds we take?  (Read 2603 times)

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Offline egello

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  • cb
What is in these Meds we take?
« on: October 20, 2008, 10:09:32 PM »
Anyone have any clue what these pills that we all take are made out of? Where do they come from and what to they use to make these meds?
Reyataz / Norvir / Truvada/ Androgel 5 g / 2 days
1/29/07 14 T, 300 k V, 1.8 %
2/22/07 197 T, 247 V, 6.8 %
3/27/07 164 T, <50 V, 5.4 %
5/28/07 177 T, <50 V, 8.2 %
7/28/07 214 T, <50 V, 9.6 %
10/3/07 380 T, <50 V, 10 % no more Mepron, Famvir

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: What is in these Meds we take?
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2008, 11:49:56 PM »
They are made of magic.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline egello

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Re: What is in these Meds we take?
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2008, 12:36:02 AM »
seriously,,,,

plants derived or how did they actually discover what the pills are made up of do what they do in our body?
Reyataz / Norvir / Truvada/ Androgel 5 g / 2 days
1/29/07 14 T, 300 k V, 1.8 %
2/22/07 197 T, 247 V, 6.8 %
3/27/07 164 T, <50 V, 5.4 %
5/28/07 177 T, <50 V, 8.2 %
7/28/07 214 T, <50 V, 9.6 %
10/3/07 380 T, <50 V, 10 % no more Mepron, Famvir

Offline mecch

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Re: What is in these Meds we take?
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2008, 04:02:33 AM »
Well your questions are so simple but the problem is that the responses could be very big and complicated indeed. It is difficult to know what exactly you mean.

First, do you understand that there are many different kinds of antiretroviral drugs.  There is a LOT of info on the internet that can explain the basic of each drug and how it "treats" hiv:

Even layman sites such as wikipedia and about have good summary articles on antiretrovirals:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiretroviral_drug
http://aids.about.com/od/medicationfactsheets/a/hivmedsheets.htm

That should take care of the basic answer to your question "what they do in our body?"

How they are made?  Pharmaceutical companies make them, just like any other drug.

How did they discover antiretrovirals?  Thousands and thousands of scientists working in pharma companies and university/hospital reseach centers, over decades to test thousands of different possible drugs in laboratories and in animal and human testing/research.  This is combined with thousands of scientists studying the HIV virus(es) itself and how it creates sickness in the body.  The pharma researchers use the ever better HIV research to identify/develop the chemicals/drugs that will work. 

Over the history of the HIV epidemic, AIDS patients contributed a lot to this knowledge and also to getting the drugs in the first place, and also sufferred terribly from ineffective and sometimes dangerous HIV treatments.

I guess you could say, in a gross summary, that "they" are mostly looking for and developing drugs that STOP hiv virus from replicating itself.

But then there are lots of other drugs someone HIV+ or with AIDS might take, which are not antiretrovirals, but treat illnesses and conditions related to HIV, but then your question becomes unmanageable.

Are they plant derived? - I will let the experts answer this one.  But in a way, your questions are getting to the base of chemistry and pharmacopoeia, and thus a bit metaphysical.  Would you consider aspirin "plant derived"? Originally, in antiquity, it was willow bark.  What about many antibiotics?

It would be nice if someone quite familiar could add a link to the history of AIDS research.

Have a nice day.  ;)


« Last Edit: October 21, 2008, 04:05:17 AM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline egello

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Re: What is in these Meds we take?
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2008, 04:23:45 AM »
yeah, what i was getting at is what is actually inside those pills.... i am very familiar with what they do, just a mystery to me how they discovered those properties and where they got those from...
Reyataz / Norvir / Truvada/ Androgel 5 g / 2 days
1/29/07 14 T, 300 k V, 1.8 %
2/22/07 197 T, 247 V, 6.8 %
3/27/07 164 T, <50 V, 5.4 %
5/28/07 177 T, <50 V, 8.2 %
7/28/07 214 T, <50 V, 9.6 %
10/3/07 380 T, <50 V, 10 % no more Mepron, Famvir

Offline mecch

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  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: What is in these Meds we take?
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2008, 04:49:59 AM »
what they do in our body?

I see. Well perhaps someone will link to a good book that describes the history of antiretroviral development. 

I'd be interested to read it, as well.

You did ask what they do in our bodies... by the way.  Just saying.

Have a nice day. 8)
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline egello

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  • cb
Re: What is in these Meds we take?
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2008, 05:08:28 AM »
I DID NOT!!,,, just kidding :)
Reyataz / Norvir / Truvada/ Androgel 5 g / 2 days
1/29/07 14 T, 300 k V, 1.8 %
2/22/07 197 T, 247 V, 6.8 %
3/27/07 164 T, <50 V, 5.4 %
5/28/07 177 T, <50 V, 8.2 %
7/28/07 214 T, <50 V, 9.6 %
10/3/07 380 T, <50 V, 10 % no more Mepron, Famvir

Offline penguin

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Re: What is in these Meds we take?
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2008, 05:50:04 AM »
Anyone have any clue what these pills that we all take are made out of?

a combination of active substance (viramune, for example = nevirapine anhydrate) plus excipients (inactive substances which "carry" the active ingredients in a form which yr body can use; act as fillers & binders to allow for accurate and easier dosing; & act as stabilisers to keep them active/pure/able to sit on a pharmacy shelf/in your medicine cabinet for x no. of months)

viramune's excipients = microcrystalline cellulose, lactose monohydrate, povidone K26/28 or K/25, sodium starch glycolate, colloidal silicon dioxide and magnesium stearate.

truvada = emtricitabine and tenofovir disoproxil fumarate (active) + excipients croscarmellose sodium, lactose monohydrate, magnesium stearate, microcrystalline cellulose and pregelatinized starch (gluten free). Coating ingredients are - Opadry II Blue Y-30-10701 containing FD&C Blue #2 aluminum lake, hydroxypropyl methylcellulose 2910, lactose monohydrate, titanium dioxide and triacetin

any med youa re on, the full prescribing information will always have ingredients listed

kate

Offline Iggy

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Re: What is in these Meds we take?
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2008, 08:39:15 AM »
yeah, what i was getting at is what is actually inside those pills.... i am very familiar with what they do, just a mystery to me how they discovered those properties and where they got those from...

Do you know how a vitamin actually is put together and how it actually works?  What about aspirin?

How did "they" ever figure out that our body needed Vitamin C or B, or that a headache can be relieved with a Bayer? 

While the science behind HIV medications is certainly more complicated, my hunch is your question is based in something more simple.  I applaud anyone who wants to be more informed about their health and the meds they take, but I suggest that requires a LOT of work beyond voicing a question that can not be answered in a simple post. 

If you are serious about wanting to know all the details of how meds are researched, comprised and work then my suggestion is that you begin your process by looking up your medications in the  AIDSmeds list which will give excellent descriptions of the meds as well as links to the manufacturing pharmaceutical company that will provide details on the components.

From there, you may need to start studying items in the realm of biology, virology and chemistry to appreciate some of the information you are discovering.  Then I would suggest asking your doctor or a professional for guidance on this information.

You may also want to start reading up on many of the journals that discuss the intricacies of the meds from discovery process to clinical trials.

Bottom line is that I am pointing out that your question can not be answered in layman's terms if you really want to know how HIV meds are researched, comprised and work.

If you are simply voicing a fear of the unknown and are looking for reassurance, then I suggest that you take a look at many of members on this board: 5, 10, 15, 20 years of living with the virus and taking medications and still going strong.



« Last Edit: October 21, 2008, 08:57:35 AM by Iggy »

Offline Peter Staley

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Re: What is in these Meds we take?
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2008, 09:34:40 AM »
Fun factoid -- the first AIDS drug, AZT (approved in 1987) was originally made from herring sperm -- I kid you not.  They had trouble making enough of the drug because it took so much sperm to make a batch, so they eventually figured out how to create a synthetic version of azidothymidine.

From the approval story in The New York Times:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DE2DE1039F932A15750C0A961948260&sec=health&spon=&pagewanted=2

"When first developed, AZT was made from the sperm of herring, but the raw material is now being synthesized."

Offline egello

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  • cb
Re: What is in these Meds we take?
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2008, 10:22:30 AM »
Peter's answer is what I was getting at....
Reyataz / Norvir / Truvada/ Androgel 5 g / 2 days
1/29/07 14 T, 300 k V, 1.8 %
2/22/07 197 T, 247 V, 6.8 %
3/27/07 164 T, <50 V, 5.4 %
5/28/07 177 T, <50 V, 8.2 %
7/28/07 214 T, <50 V, 9.6 %
10/3/07 380 T, <50 V, 10 % no more Mepron, Famvir

Offline bryonut

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  • I'm not just sure, I'm HIV positive!
Re: What is in these Meds we take?
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2008, 04:57:40 PM »
my meds are filled with starlight, rainbows and unicorn sperm....

Offline Graywolf

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  • Posts: 47
Re: What is in these Meds we take?
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2008, 07:04:21 PM »
years ago I knew a guy who was a research scientist for one of the BIG drug companies, he told me quiet after 20 years in disgust. What was fascinting was he clearly explained every component in the cocktail I was, what they did, how they did it and known intereations/side effects, stating that those in  the tiny print, 'rare but call your doctor immediatly and seek medical help is one of more of the folowing occur' what he said was the side effects in small print are far more common than the drug companies claim, or else nobody would take them. He also said that for a few cents per pill they could edit out a lot of the side effects but profits come first.

What's in hiv meds?'

Depleted uranium
Trilithium crystals
Eye of neut
Tow of frog
Cigarette butts
Lead
Asbestos
LSD
Unleaded hi octane gasoline
Magic mushrooms
Snake venom
Tasmanian devil sweat
Fire & Brimstone
All sorts of patented designer chemicals that mimic naturally
occuring substances, to insure extra profit margin

Plus artificial flavoring and color and whatever looks like it might have some kind of effect
"If we don't learn to live as brothers, we will perish as fools" - Dr martin Luther King Jr

Offline Graywolf

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Re: What is in these Meds we take?
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2008, 07:14:12 PM »
Fun factoid -- the first AIDS drug, AZT (approved in 1987) was originally made from herring sperm -- I kid you not.  They had trouble making enough of the drug because it took so much sperm to make a batch, so they eventually figured out how to create a synthetic version of azidothymidine.

From the approval story in The New York Times:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DE2DE1039F932A15750C0A961948260&sec=health&spon=&pagewanted=2

"When first developed, AZT was made from the sperm of herring, but the raw material is now being synthesized."

I assume it comes from synthetic herring :-)

AZT was also first developed as an oral cancer chemotherapy drug but was shelved as too toxic for human consumption. I remember the first AZT trials where guys were taking 1600-1800 mg a day, many dieing from lymphoma which was attributed to AIDS but was really from the mega doses of AZT

My doctor finally admitted that a major part of the permanent nerve and muscle damage I now have to live with was probably due to my being on AZT and Zerit for 7 years
"If we don't learn to live as brothers, we will perish as fools" - Dr martin Luther King Jr

Offline mecch

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  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: What is in these Meds we take?
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2008, 07:18:54 PM »
With all due respect Graywolf,

I think a critical attitude is healty vis-a-vis big pharma and HAART, but... Is your post supposed to be taken seriously.  It so very anecdotal and also, as you said, is based on a "years ago" experience. And you don't even bother to say if your friend was working on anti-HIV drugs...

Personally, I find this a very disheartening way of looking at things.  Some of us choose to believe in the medicine, even with trepidation since we know such HAART meds are not exactly harmless oatmeal chocolate chip cookies made by grandma....

My ID told me that independent (non-Pharma) trial research on some very recent HAART drugs show side effects the same as placebo, by the way.

Don't you think we can all learn some lessons from all the different camps - I learn from complimentary and alternative approaches to living with HIV, spiritual approaches.  Heck, I even learned some from the denialist literature.  

I wouldn't go around trashing people who feel that spirituality is going to help them live well with HIV, and I wouldn't trash the HAART medicine so easily, either...

Modified:  Added to reflect again more respect for your long history.  Yes, early drugs were toxic. Todays drugs a mixed bag. But a lot of people do very well on them, these days....
« Last Edit: October 21, 2008, 07:22:22 PM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline edfu

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Re: What is in these Meds we take?
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2008, 05:56:03 AM »
Bottom line is that I am pointing out that your question can not be answered in layman's terms if you really want to know how HIV meds are researched, comprised and work.


This is not quite true.  There have been many books published on this topic that are meant for and were written for the layman. 

It would be nice if someone quite familiar could add a link to the history of AIDS research.


I have a personal library of several hundred titles on this topic.  I would suggest you begin with "Against the Odds:  The Story of AIDS, Drug Development, Politics & Profits" by Peter S. Arno, Ph.D., and Karyn L. Feiden (HarperCollins, 1992).  Arno is a professor in the Department of Epidemiology and Social Medicine at Montefiore Medical Center and Albert Einstein College of Medicine in New York City.

You could also begin with "Good Intentions:  How Big Business and the Medical Establishment Are Corrupting the Fight Against AIDS" by Bruce Nussbaum (Atlantic Monthly Press, 1990).  Nussbaum is senior writer at "Business Week." 

There are many more I could mention.   
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Offline Iggy

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Re: What is in these Meds we take?
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2008, 08:07:02 AM »

This is not quite true.  There have been many books published on this topic that are meant for and were written for the layman. 

Ed,

The materials you cite (particularly Nussbaum's book) has been misused by some denalists to bolster false claims.  Frankly this only proves my point of why people need to actually study virology, biology, chemistry so that they truly understand the truth behind the science of meds vs. the falling into manipulation tactics of denalists.

Also, You are taking my quote out of context.  My response was in regards to posting in a message board thread (bolded emphasis added):

Quote
While the science behind HIV medications is certainly more complicated, my hunch is your question is based in something more simple.  I applaud anyone who wants to be more informed about their health and the meds they take, but I suggest that requires a LOT of work beyond voicing a question that can not be answered in a simple post. 



Modified:  I edited my response to better clarify my concern


« Last Edit: October 22, 2008, 08:53:10 AM by Iggy »

 


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