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Author Topic: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?  (Read 13290 times)

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Offline Rayray

  • Member
  • Posts: 25
Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« on: October 18, 2008, 06:58:04 PM »
i met a guy on poz.com that lives within five miles of me and he tells me he posts adds on craigslist to get guys to come to him and have unprotected sex.Or at times he goes to there houses which is why i'm writing.This guy was in my apt building with one of my neihbors. Now this guy who lives in my building is a bit older than myself but he is kinda slow if you know what i mean.But he is a very nice guy and i know he had this guy over and know what the two of them did because he told me one day as I was walking my dog about this guy he had met. I talk openly about being gay and live with my partner of five years who also is poz.But its killing me to tell this guy about what I have learned but cant decide if its any of my bussiness or not to report him for being so careless. Anyone have any input i could use it.Thanks
« Last Edit: October 18, 2008, 07:06:05 PM by Rayray »
Tested feb 2007 neg
Seroconvert 07/2007
Diagnosed w/ Aids-PCP-Mac-Thrush-PN
09/07 CD4 71 Put on zidovudrine, Efarivnz, prednisone,bactrim ds,Z pak,Diflucan,Mepron
10/07 CD4 9 160,000,000  Stopped all pre meds for observations found current ID. started on Atripila for two weeks end due to sustiva allergy
11/07 CD4 4 VL-1600,000start Norvir-Truvada-Reytaz
12/07 CD4 83 VL-1600,000
02/08 CD4 488 VL- 4100
05/08 CD4 514 VL- 4200
07/08 CD4 434 VL- <400
10/08 Cd4 531 VL-Undetectable
10/16/2008 cd4 393 VL-undetectable
01/29/2009 cd4 419 VL-undetectable
04/28/2009 cd4 385 VL-undetectable
08/06/2009 cd4 358 VL-undetectable
12/14/2010 cd4 741 VL-undetectable

Offline Moffie65

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,755
  • Living POZ since 1983
Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2008, 07:39:22 PM »
Ray, I answer this post to let you know I am thinking about it, but hell, I just cannot come up with a really respectable answer just yet.  You do come up with a really good one.  I look forward to some of the responses.

Very Interesting.
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline Rayray

  • Member
  • Posts: 25
Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2008, 07:56:35 PM »
thanks for letting me know your thinking about it.
This has been driving me crazy all week.
Tested feb 2007 neg
Seroconvert 07/2007
Diagnosed w/ Aids-PCP-Mac-Thrush-PN
09/07 CD4 71 Put on zidovudrine, Efarivnz, prednisone,bactrim ds,Z pak,Diflucan,Mepron
10/07 CD4 9 160,000,000  Stopped all pre meds for observations found current ID. started on Atripila for two weeks end due to sustiva allergy
11/07 CD4 4 VL-1600,000start Norvir-Truvada-Reytaz
12/07 CD4 83 VL-1600,000
02/08 CD4 488 VL- 4100
05/08 CD4 514 VL- 4200
07/08 CD4 434 VL- <400
10/08 Cd4 531 VL-Undetectable
10/16/2008 cd4 393 VL-undetectable
01/29/2009 cd4 419 VL-undetectable
04/28/2009 cd4 385 VL-undetectable
08/06/2009 cd4 358 VL-undetectable
12/14/2010 cd4 741 VL-undetectable

Offline Graywolf

  • Member
  • Posts: 47
Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2008, 07:58:39 PM »
That's a tough call. I remember about 18 years ago there was a guy in Boston, very good looking, horse hung (from what I was told) who was poz and would pick up guys, take them home fuck them very rough, then whisper in their ear, I have aids now you will too. A couple of guys showed up at one of the support group I attended who had just seroconverted and told the story about.

I saw the guy on the street, he didn't know I was poz and he always said "hi hot stuff, wanna fuck" I told him what I knew and what he was doing was immoral to say the least. His response, "someone infected me, if they're willing to play unsafe then they take their chances" thank goodness he was one of the only people I met who had that attitude. A few of us found out where he lived and decided to pay him a visit en force, but he had moved out and skipped town.

It's a tough call, as I mentioned. Do you call the police? the health department? We discussed this at the group. Sure I was angry and bitter when I found I was poz in 85, but giving it to someone was the last thing on my mind, plus I'm more afraid of getting yet another bug from a stranger than of infecting them. I don;t think I could live with myself knowing I had infected someone
"If we don't learn to live as brothers, we will perish as fools" - Dr martin Luther King Jr

Offline Rayray

  • Member
  • Posts: 25
Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2008, 08:10:47 PM »
I see his add on craigslist and i flag it. So that craigslist takes it off the posting. but only for that posting. He is alowed to post up to three post a day, so i try to stay up on them, but cant baby sit him forever and i dont want to out him on there. i could maybe be sued for slander or defimation i think.I did however post on there that there's a guy out there in our the area that is hiv poz and he wants to have unprotected sex so make sure you cover it up and or play safe with everyone.Its all I could think to do for now.As far as the police the town I live in really could care less they told me they cant do anything until someone reports they have been personally hurt by this guy.And the officer said he thinks its sick that guys have sex with guys and if there stupid enough to not wear protection then its there own fault.I had to ask him to leave before i went to jail for assulting an officer.
Tested feb 2007 neg
Seroconvert 07/2007
Diagnosed w/ Aids-PCP-Mac-Thrush-PN
09/07 CD4 71 Put on zidovudrine, Efarivnz, prednisone,bactrim ds,Z pak,Diflucan,Mepron
10/07 CD4 9 160,000,000  Stopped all pre meds for observations found current ID. started on Atripila for two weeks end due to sustiva allergy
11/07 CD4 4 VL-1600,000start Norvir-Truvada-Reytaz
12/07 CD4 83 VL-1600,000
02/08 CD4 488 VL- 4100
05/08 CD4 514 VL- 4200
07/08 CD4 434 VL- <400
10/08 Cd4 531 VL-Undetectable
10/16/2008 cd4 393 VL-undetectable
01/29/2009 cd4 419 VL-undetectable
04/28/2009 cd4 385 VL-undetectable
08/06/2009 cd4 358 VL-undetectable
12/14/2010 cd4 741 VL-undetectable

Offline skeebo1969

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,666
Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2008, 08:55:20 PM »


  Touchy subject indeed.   I would be so torn between telling the guy in your building and not doing so.  Guilt would probably be my driving force to perhaps talk to the guy .  I would probably ask if he got tested regularly or something.  If his answer were yes every 6 months or along those lines, I might just mind my own business and hope he insisted on protection.  If he says he does not get tested regularly then perhaps you could have a path way to ask if he uses protection or not..

  I don't know man, tough call....
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 10,710
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2008, 10:01:31 PM »
IAnd the officer said he thinks its sick that guys have sex with guys and if there stupid enough to not wear protection then its there own fault.I had to ask him to leave before i went to jail for assulting an officer.

The officer is correct. Everyone must protect himself.
Its not clear in your story if the "suspect" is lying to people or disclosing. If he says he is positive, and then gets people to fuck unsafe, well depending on your state, it is maybe illegal, or maybe not.

I suggest you have a talk with your "simple" neighbor to see if he understands what the rules of safe sex are. 

As to "Typhoid Mary", we don't have enough information to pronounce on him.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline David_CA

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  • Posts: 3,232
  • Joined: March 2006
Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2008, 11:02:43 PM »
The officer is only partially correct, in my mind.  Yes, everybody should protect themself.  If an individual invites a stranger into their home, and the stranger steals a bunch of their stuff, the cop's not going to say 'well, you shouldn't have invited them in'.  Well, he may, but he's still obligated to do something about it.  I think it's the cop's prejudices about gay guys and HIV showing.  If you want to report it, I'd suggest the health dept.  You could at least call and ask what you can do. 
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline auspoz

  • Member
  • Posts: 153
Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2008, 11:04:29 PM »
I'd be making an anonymous phone call to the HIV/AIDS authorities.

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 10,710
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2008, 04:34:36 AM »
The officer is only partially correct, in my mind. 

Of course you're right, the cops were being offensive and prejudiced.  I only meant its correct to protect yourself.

The information that is lacking:  Does the guy disclose:

On craig's list - does the guy disclose??  we don't know
Does he disclose before sex with the partner he finds?  we don't know

I agree, its often irresponsible to have unsafe sex if you are poz, but not in all circumstances.. Lots of poz gays do it with each other with consent...  And some craig's list ads, of the "cum dump in me" variety, well, I guess nobody is even asking the question who is poz.

There is the elephant in the room question, which is also perhaps tangential, but is typhoid mary on HAART and undetectable? (Yes I know that does not give one a permit for unprotected sex, but it could mitigate our rush to judge mary, because some gays DO use viral level information that way, and inform others before sex about such information.)

I think what worries me is that we don't know what's going on behind closed doors to pronounce. 

I can't imagine what an "authority" could do in the described situation, unless it was in an area where it is illegal for a HIV+ person to have unprotected sex.  If we assume the cops know the law in the area then his quote  "they told me they cant do anything until someone reports they have been personally hurt by this guy" would suggest that there are no criminal intent laws.

In my opinion, this story had raised a lot of anxiety in RayRay. ("This has been driving me crazy all week.".)

Rayray, can you provide more information about Typhoid Mary - do you know if the guy has the intent to infect someone with HIV?

Rayray, can you provide more information about HIV transmission laws in your area?

Rayray, you are concerned about slander - (saying something malicious) and defamation (making a false claim). 

You may be making false claims if you don't really know what the guy is doing when he is finally having sex.

Calling the police and posting a general warning on Craigs list that there is a Typhoid Mary does accomplish 2 good things
1) It definitely makes you feel better that you have done something constructive about a situation that is causing you anxiety.
2) The craigs list warning may have some public health benefit - it might remind people to alway use protection.

But posting on Craigs list about a "malicious Typhoid Mary character in our midst" -- meaning hey guys, there is a poz "out there" who wants to have unprotected sex and infect you....  Is that what you posted?

I think this might also have, perhaps, a negative effect on hiv+ people in general. Its a reminder that there are bad people, but it sort of invites prejudice and worse, perhaps incites a kind of vigilanteeism.

« Last Edit: October 19, 2008, 04:40:57 AM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Online Joe K

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 3,175
  • 30 Years Poz
Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2008, 10:43:24 AM »
Ray, I do not think this issue is as difficult, as you may believe.  If you know, for a fact, that this guy is poz and engages in unprotected sex, I would do the following.

Call the Health Department and discuss this issue with them.  Surely they can guide you.

I would also get a safer sex booklet and give it to your neighbor, so he has something concrete to refer to in the future.  You could also use this time to talk about testing, or whatever else you think may be helpful to him.

After that, you are done and your conscience should be clear.
Life is what happens, when you are busy making other plans.

Though you may be only one person in the entire world, to one person, you may be the entire world.

I wish to become half the man, that my dog thinks I am.

Remember me with simple acts of kindness and I will live forever.

Offline Rayray

  • Member
  • Posts: 25
Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2008, 10:50:22 AM »
this guy tells me he doesn't tell anyone of his status.NOT his family freinds anyone.He said he was in hospital for three weeks and told his job he was fine.so as far as him telling his sex partners he made it clear it was none of there business.I did post on craigs list but didn't name him just posted there is a guy in our area having unprotected sex who may be hiv+ So always have protected sex didn't say he was because I still dont know the law here.I would never out anyone.And certainly wouldn't make false claims about them.I myself dont know the laws here where i live but will definatly be doing some research to better understand what is legal and what is not.I dont know if he really wants to infect someone else but as for the conversation we had. To me he seemded to be saying he got it and no one told him they had it so why should he tell anyone. I just hope people are smart enough to protect them selves.

One person cant change the world but can make a world of change!
Tested feb 2007 neg
Seroconvert 07/2007
Diagnosed w/ Aids-PCP-Mac-Thrush-PN
09/07 CD4 71 Put on zidovudrine, Efarivnz, prednisone,bactrim ds,Z pak,Diflucan,Mepron
10/07 CD4 9 160,000,000  Stopped all pre meds for observations found current ID. started on Atripila for two weeks end due to sustiva allergy
11/07 CD4 4 VL-1600,000start Norvir-Truvada-Reytaz
12/07 CD4 83 VL-1600,000
02/08 CD4 488 VL- 4100
05/08 CD4 514 VL- 4200
07/08 CD4 434 VL- <400
10/08 Cd4 531 VL-Undetectable
10/16/2008 cd4 393 VL-undetectable
01/29/2009 cd4 419 VL-undetectable
04/28/2009 cd4 385 VL-undetectable
08/06/2009 cd4 358 VL-undetectable
12/14/2010 cd4 741 VL-undetectable

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 10,710
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2008, 11:35:08 AM »
Thanks for the extra information.

As described, I think your post on Craigs list was respectful of the persons privacy.

Its kind of you to be concerned for everyone possibly involved, such as your neighbor.  And as you said, you can't control everything. 

You said the situation is driving you crazy, maybe you could try to contact the guy in question, again, on the Poz chat, and have a conversation directly with him about your concerns.  Since he DID tell you on the POZ chat that he is poz, and volunteer the information you already know, then he may be looking to talk about his hiv+ status and his sex practices. 

He seems to be doing two different things - 1) disclosing on a chat and talking to other HIV+ people (probably a good thing for him) and 2) posting on Craigs list and meeting for sex and not disclosing (obviously a bad action).

I don't know if you feel like the guy is worth the effort, but it seems you might be able to educate him a bit about his responsibilities.  And talking directly to him, you could certainly have the opportunity to tell him how you personally feel about his actions and what is means to others. 

If you do chat with him again, I suppose it would not be constructive to mention your previous call to the police about him.  Unless the conversation isn't going well, and you use that as a threat of some sort - which doesnt sound like it would be useful for this guy.  He sounds like a really narcissistic person, a nut case.

Anyway, another conversation would be an opportunity to get more information. 

While you also take the time to see if there IS indeed anything you can do about referring him to local "authorities" whoever they be, who could have some say on the matter.

It is kind of you to be thinking of others.  I hope you have a constructive result if you pursue it, but don't put yourself at any risk in the process.

“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Moffie65

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,755
  • Living POZ since 1983
Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2008, 12:49:06 PM »
I've thought about this Ray, and I fall square in the place Joe Killfoile is.  Your concern for your neighbor is admirable, but it ultimately is his responsibility to cover up with any of his liasons. 

I would advise that a talk with him about safer sex practices is probably what I would do, and to make sure he understands that HIV is certainly not under control, as many uneducated believe.  After all, if he is a Republican, then there is every possibility that he thinks he is no longer in danger because of the information coming out of Washington over the last 8 years.

Other than that, you are not the police, and not the health department, and your moral responsibility is something only you can figure out on your own.  Personally I have always come down on the side of the prey rather than the preditor, but laws in most states still stand on the side of the prey, and informing them that they ultimately are the responsible party to cover up with sex.  If we in this country had been able to make the point that each and every man and woman in this country needs to take responsiblity for themselves; who knows where the plague would now be in America.  I know for sure that some countries in Africa who have taken very aggressive stances on condom use have actually started to reverse the trends of infection, so we cannot say that this message will not work.  Remember, these countries have done this in the face of loosing millions of dollars, because all the money DC has offered has been tied to exclusive abstinence training.  They knew this wouldn't work and instead of taking dollars from us, they have developed really effective outreach programs that trumpet the use of condoms and testing all the time.

In summation, I would suggest you inform your neighbor about safer sexual practices, and also that HIV is still very much a danger; and then you will have done the right and perfect thing.  He must show some responsibility for his own health, once he has been informed.  He also may then come out to you about his own HIV+ status, which will not only remove you from the picture, but also give you one more person in your sphere who is HIV+ and a possible friendship. 
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline Rayray

  • Member
  • Posts: 25
Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2008, 01:55:52 PM »
I have just spoken with my neighbor and he says he is neg.I then told him what I learned and he was a bit upset but thanked me for the info he told me he didn't use protection but that he will from this point on I told him he may need to go get tested and if he wanted i would take him so he will not be alone.He saidhe wouldlet me know.As for the other guy.I will just let him be.I cant concerne myself with him anymore Someone so careless as to not inform or use protection after being told the dangers is not the type of person I would like to be around. I sent him an email voicing my distaste forhis actions and told him if ever he wanted to discuse better ways to deal with his infection to  give me a shout.

P.S. Thank you everyone for your help with this situation.I look forward to more discussion in the future.
Tested feb 2007 neg
Seroconvert 07/2007
Diagnosed w/ Aids-PCP-Mac-Thrush-PN
09/07 CD4 71 Put on zidovudrine, Efarivnz, prednisone,bactrim ds,Z pak,Diflucan,Mepron
10/07 CD4 9 160,000,000  Stopped all pre meds for observations found current ID. started on Atripila for two weeks end due to sustiva allergy
11/07 CD4 4 VL-1600,000start Norvir-Truvada-Reytaz
12/07 CD4 83 VL-1600,000
02/08 CD4 488 VL- 4100
05/08 CD4 514 VL- 4200
07/08 CD4 434 VL- <400
10/08 Cd4 531 VL-Undetectable
10/16/2008 cd4 393 VL-undetectable
01/29/2009 cd4 419 VL-undetectable
04/28/2009 cd4 385 VL-undetectable
08/06/2009 cd4 358 VL-undetectable
12/14/2010 cd4 741 VL-undetectable

Offline Moffie65

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,755
  • Living POZ since 1983
Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2008, 01:59:10 PM »
Hey Ray,

Just make sure he waits for the 90 days to pass before the test.  I'm sure you know that, but just a reminder.
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline David_CA

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,232
  • Joined: March 2006
Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2008, 02:14:59 PM »
Personally, it would be hard for me to be in Ray's situation.  Sure, we should all use protection; that's a no-brainer.  Some folks are also no-brainers (slow, ignorant, stupid, whatever).  Still, if the guy is simply not disclosing before topping a neg guy, it's sort of a gray area for me.  If he's undetectable and bottoming, the gray is a little lighter (much less of a risk of transmission).  If he's intentionally trying to spread HIV, that's where the situation becomes very clear... at least to me.  There is no excuse for that.  I like to think of pedestrians crossing the street.  We're all told to look both ways before we cross.  As a driver, we're told pedestrians have the right of way.  So, which is it?  If a pedestrian wants to stay uninjured, he needs to make sure it's safe to cross.  As a driver, if I don't want to hit a pedestrian, I need to do what it takes to not hit one.  But, what if I intentionally try to hit a pedestrian.  It's pretty clear that's not acceptable. 

Another way to handle the situation would be to inform the health dept. that you are HIV+ and have had sex with this individual (the one who's posting on Craigslist, etx) and he might be exposed.  You can stay anonymous to the health dept.  At least here, they will contact the guy and want him tested.  They can't force him (as far as I know), but perhaps this will be enough; he won't really know what to make of the call.  It's like having noisy neighbors at night and a cop just stopping by to check things out.  Maybe he can't really do anything, but often that's all it takes to quieten things down.

David
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
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Offline Desertguy

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Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2008, 09:08:15 PM »
So what city is this guy in?

Offline next2u

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Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2008, 02:10:38 AM »
that guy is a fucktard and should be punished - repeatedly. contact your local health authorities and post about his ass anonymously. something to the tune of "hey, this guy is poz. there are a lot of good pozzies out there, he is not one of them. use a condom, cause he won't. its ur responsibility to protect yourself and assholes like him want to exploit you."

i know its not the best thing in the world but you are in a grey spot. whatever you decide, more power to you.

 
midapr07 - seroconversion
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Offline madbrain

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Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2008, 06:45:54 PM »
i met a guy on poz.com that lives within five miles of me and he tells me he posts adds on craigslist to get guys to come to him and have unprotected sex.Or at times he goes to there houses which is why i'm writing.This guy was in my apt building with one of my neihbors. Now this guy who lives in my building is a bit older than myself but he is kinda slow if you know what i mean.But he is a very nice guy and i know he had this guy over and know what the two of them did because he told me one day as I was walking my dog about this guy he had met. I talk openly about being gay and live with my partner of five years who also is poz.But its killing me to tell this guy about what I have learned but cant decide if its any of my bussiness or not to report him for being so careless. Anyone have any input i could use it.Thanks

It is disgusting to hear that there are people doing that out there.

Definitely talk to the health authorities and see what they can do. I wonder what that would be, though.

Unless he is caught in the act of having unprotected sex with somebody without having previously disclosed his status, I'm not sure that they can actually do anything.

Offline lean2265

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Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2008, 07:00:35 PM »
Rayray

Ur pic looks cute heheehehehehheehheeheh ::) ;) :-[

Offline fearless

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Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2008, 07:13:19 PM »
Personally, I'd let it slide. It's not your job to police the world. Your neighbour should be protecting himself. At worst, I would contact the guy on poz.com/craiglist and tell you don't think what he does his right. What he then does is his business.
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Offline Rayray

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Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2008, 10:56:20 PM »
I have been on craigslist as I posted in prior thread.AndIhave spokenwith the guy and he could careless what he is doing.I have done what I could to tell him how wrong he is.As far as reporting him knowing his name I did give it to the dept of health if its his real name they said they would deal with it I will check back with them in a few days to see that something was done to discurage this guy from his practices.
Tested feb 2007 neg
Seroconvert 07/2007
Diagnosed w/ Aids-PCP-Mac-Thrush-PN
09/07 CD4 71 Put on zidovudrine, Efarivnz, prednisone,bactrim ds,Z pak,Diflucan,Mepron
10/07 CD4 9 160,000,000  Stopped all pre meds for observations found current ID. started on Atripila for two weeks end due to sustiva allergy
11/07 CD4 4 VL-1600,000start Norvir-Truvada-Reytaz
12/07 CD4 83 VL-1600,000
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05/08 CD4 514 VL- 4200
07/08 CD4 434 VL- <400
10/08 Cd4 531 VL-Undetectable
10/16/2008 cd4 393 VL-undetectable
01/29/2009 cd4 419 VL-undetectable
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Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2008, 11:52:21 PM »
What action do you plan to take against the people who choose to have unprotected sex with this man or others like him? Surely they risk infecting others as well.
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2008, 12:07:23 AM »
What action do you plan to take against the people who choose to have unprotected sex with this man or others like him? Surely they risk infecting others as well.

Ah, that does throw a wrench in the crusade doesn't it?
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Offline emeraldize

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Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #25 on: October 21, 2008, 07:30:26 AM »
As far as reporting him knowing his name I did give it to the dept of health if its his real name they said they would deal with it I will check back with them in a few days to see that something was done to discurage this guy from his practices.

RayRay
If the health department does what they deem appropriate and, within important legal bounds, be advised they will not tell you what they did. They are not beholding to you as informer to tell you anything nor are you entitled to such information. And, if the scenario were reversed, you would want the same protections of the law.
Em

Offline Rayray

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Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #26 on: October 21, 2008, 11:39:02 AM »
I didn't intentionally set out to find this guy.I was trying to find people in my are who were dealing with similar situations that wanted to get together to talk about our concerns and share our triumps.This guy told me about what he was doing and I didnt think it was right for him to be doing it, Not that it is even my call whats right or wrong, But I have done what I think I can to do,with my part in makeing others aware.I am not on a witch hunt and really dont want to deal with people like this, However if they happen across my path I will stand up for the rest of us and others.

As far as the health dept I know they will not give me any information but I will still call back to insure that they are aware of this situation.You know how things some times get over looked,Just want to be sure this isn't one of those times.
Tested feb 2007 neg
Seroconvert 07/2007
Diagnosed w/ Aids-PCP-Mac-Thrush-PN
09/07 CD4 71 Put on zidovudrine, Efarivnz, prednisone,bactrim ds,Z pak,Diflucan,Mepron
10/07 CD4 9 160,000,000  Stopped all pre meds for observations found current ID. started on Atripila for two weeks end due to sustiva allergy
11/07 CD4 4 VL-1600,000start Norvir-Truvada-Reytaz
12/07 CD4 83 VL-1600,000
02/08 CD4 488 VL- 4100
05/08 CD4 514 VL- 4200
07/08 CD4 434 VL- <400
10/08 Cd4 531 VL-Undetectable
10/16/2008 cd4 393 VL-undetectable
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Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2008, 11:58:01 AM »
To engage in unprotected sex, particularly with a stranger one meets off of Craigslist, is to consent to the possibility of being infected with an STD, including HIV.

IMHO, the responsibility goes both ways. And I am vehemently against the criminalization of HIV insofar as consensual sex is concerned.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

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Online RapidRod

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Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2008, 12:13:42 PM »
There is a big difference in having unprotected sex with someone that does not know that they are infected than it is to have someone that is positive and knows it to be spreading the disease around.

Offline dixieman

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Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2008, 12:21:39 PM »
I've known several people through the years who stated"They were going to give it to as many people as possible" most are deceased now... but, there are a few still around that have no conscious... There will always be people like this...

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #30 on: October 21, 2008, 12:32:34 PM »
There is a big difference in having unprotected sex with someone that does not know that they are infected than it is to have someone that is positive and knows it to be spreading the disease around.

One cannot "spread around" a disease that can be easily prevented with the use of condoms.

I respectfully disagree with your assertion that there are "tiers" of HIV infections.

An HIV Negative person who wants to stay that way will use condoms for penetrative sex outside of a mutually monogamous relationship with another negative person. Period.

And when these "innocent victims" themselves become infected by this "monster," one would imagine they would consider themselves to be negative as well, and also engage in unprotected sex, therefore spreading HIv as well.

I cannot imagine a person who would bareback from a craigslist encounter would also be diligent when it comes to regular testing.

HIV does not discriminate.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

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Offline Basquo

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Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #31 on: October 21, 2008, 12:32:46 PM »
I cringe when I see the ads on craigslist that say "Watch out for this guy, he has HIV," because I think it adds to the stigma for everybody who's poz. And you don't know what the poster's true intentions are, or even if it's true that the subject has HIV and is intent on spreading it around.

8 years ago, I was plenty mad for letting myself get infected but I didn't try to redeem myself by "turning in" the person who infected me or anyone else. To me, it would seem that I was trying to tell the world "I let my guard down, and I let myself get HIV, and someone's goin' down!" And when I looked in the mirror I would a bitter person.  I don't want to be a bitter person.

Online RapidRod

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Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #32 on: October 21, 2008, 12:44:57 PM »
One cannot "spread around" a disease that can be easily prevented with the use of condoms.

I respectfully disagree with your assertion that there are "tiers" of HIV infections.

An HIV Negative person who wants to stay that way will use condoms for penetrative sex outside of a mutually monogamous relationship with another negative person. Period.

And when these "innocent victims" themselves become infected by this "monster," one would imagine they would consider themselves to be negative as well, and also engage in unprotected sex, therefore spreading HIv as well.

I cannot imagine a person who would bareback from a craigslist encounter would also be diligent when it comes to regular testing.

HIV does not discriminate.



If the person that has HIV would have used a condom because he KNEW he was infected then he wouldn't be spreading it to others. If he would have advised the other person then the other person would have had the choice not to have sex with him/her.  It does discriminate when a known HIV carrier doesn't used condoms or doesn't disclose.

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #33 on: October 21, 2008, 01:09:32 PM »
Quote
It does discriminate when a known HIV carrier doesn't used condoms or doesn't disclose.

So the negative person has no say in the matter?

Don't get me wrong, I am all for informed consent. But this goes to that ridiculous thread about HIV negative serosorting. Its simply not possible.

An HIV negative person has everything (viral) to lose in this matter. When does personal responsibility for what goes into your body come into play? Are these "victims" unconscious? Are they impaired mentally or physically? Are they unable to consent to unprotected sex?

Or are they on Craigslist, looking to get off with a stranger who tells them they are negative. And are making life-changing decisions based on the word of a total stranger? It boggles the mind that the negative person gets zero credit for having a choice in the matter.

I am on record as being pro-disclosure. But I am also about personal responsibility.

There is a stoplight near where I live. And on many occasions, people run that light, full tilt. Granted, it is an awkwardly placed light, but it exists. And on nore than one occasion, I have been slowly accelerating into that green light when a car barreled through without the slightest sign of slowing. Legally, morally, I would be in the right had I been hit.

Fat lot of good such righteousness would do me, were I paralyzed or dead. It is still incumbent upon me to be vigilant.

To consent to unprotected sex, as ANN says in her AM I INFECTED forum, is to consent to the possibility of acquiring an STD, including HIV. If you disagree with that, it might be a good idea to rethink your participation in that forum, as it directly contradicts the statements you have made here.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

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Online RapidRod

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Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #34 on: October 21, 2008, 01:26:44 PM »
Quote
To consent to unprotected sex, as ANN says in her AM I INFECTED forum, is to consent to the possibility of acquiring an STD, including HIV. If you disagree with that, it might be a good idea to rethink your participation in that forum, as it directly contradicts the statements you have made here.

No it doesn't contradict my statements here. It takes only one person to prevent HIV transmission and that you being HIV+ and more knowledgeable are more responsible to help prevent HIV transmission. Had YOU insisted on using a condom or abstained from sex because you knew you were positive wouldn't put anyone at risk, but not to disclose and to not use condoms says that you don’t care that you could possible transmit HIV to someone else. Take some responsibility for your actions instead of saying it takes two.

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #35 on: October 21, 2008, 01:34:14 PM »
So the negative person has no say in the matter?

Don't get me wrong, I am all for informed consent. But this goes to that ridiculous thread about HIV negative serosorting. Its simply not possible.

An HIV negative person has everything (viral) to lose in this matter. When does personal responsibility for what goes into your body come into play? Are these "victims" unconscious? Are they impaired mentally or physically? Are they unable to consent to unprotected sex?

Or are they on Craigslist, looking to get off with a stranger who tells them they are negative. And are making life-changing decisions based on the word of a total stranger? It boggles the mind that the negative person gets zero credit for having a choice in the matter.

I am on record as being pro-disclosure. But I am also about personal responsibility.

There is a stoplight near where I live. And on many occasions, people run that light, full tilt. Granted, it is an awkwardly placed light, but it exists. And on nore than one occasion, I have been slowly accelerating into that green light when a car barreled through without the slightest sign of slowing. Legally, morally, I would be in the right had I been hit.

Fat lot of good such righteousness would do me, were I paralyzed or dead. It is still incumbent upon me to be vigilant.

To consent to unprotected sex, as ANN says in her AM I INFECTED forum, is to consent to the possibility of acquiring an STD, including HIV. If you disagree with that, it might be a good idea to rethink your participation in that forum, as it directly contradicts the statements you have made here.



   Very well said and very applicable if this situation were a newly infected person saying how angry he was about being infected or perhaps some guy in the news who was being jailed for infecting his lover, but that is not the case here.

   This man, as the OP has stated, is making it his duty to spread the virus and he is KNOWINGLY doing so.  I agree with Basquo that this helps add to the stigma that people like me are just plain dirty, perhaps I got what I deserved because I am evil.  Stories like this do and will have a negative effect on peoples understanding of us pozzies.

   Talking to some people I almost get the impression they think, you didn't care about yourself so you must not care about anyone else.  I think people like this guy on CL support this thinking.

   Jon, I agree with you, the negative person does have a say in the matter.  Like you stated it is a person's responsibility if they want to stay negative, but should this person who is positive have liberties to freely expose others?  Should he do so with no consequence?   I mean that is what this thread is ultimately about...
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Offline Peter Staley

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Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #36 on: October 21, 2008, 01:49:14 PM »
I know I'm going to catch all shit for this, but I personally don't believe the criminalization of HIV transmission is a black & white issue (for it or against it).  There's no doubting that it has gotten way out of hand in certain jurisdictions.  For instance,  I recoil when I see prosecutions of folks where transmission has not and CAN NOT occur (like spitting).

That said, I think someone who knowingly and intentionally infects another person should be subject to some sort of legal punishment.

There, I said it.  Bring it on.

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #37 on: October 21, 2008, 01:54:12 PM »


There, I said it.  Bring it on.

  Hell NO!!!  I just got back...lol ;)
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Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #38 on: October 21, 2008, 02:19:33 PM »
I know I'm going to catch all shit for this, but I personally don't believe the criminalization of HIV transmission is a black & white issue (for it or against it).  There's no doubting that it has gotten way out of hand in certain jurisdictions.  For instance,  I recoil when I see prosecutions of folks where transmission has not and CAN NOT occur (like spitting).

That said, I think someone who knowingly and intentionally infects another person should be subject to some sort of legal punishment.

There, I said it.  Bring it on.

But how does one establish a legal burden of proof? IN intimate circumstances, it is often one person's word over another.

Also, does HIV infection have to be accomplished in order for the law to apply? In many states, this is not the case. As a matter of fact, in California, all that is necessary for an indictment is that the person had "reasonable suspicion" that his/her acts might have placed him/her in jeopardy, regardless of whether s/he was tested, a case that was made when a wife prosecuted a husband for having unprotected sex with prostitutes as well as her.

Moreover, transmission vectors so far as the court system are concerned are roughly ten years behind the science and epidemiology. Spitting, you mentioned. Insertive oral, cunnilingus, are also considered "infectious" acts according to most state laws in the USA.

Until and unless the legal system comes up to date with transmission vectors, and until the stigma of HIV positivity is such that a mere accusation is not a media event (as well as a life destroying one) I cannot conceive of an HIV criminalization policy that would be anything short of draconian, and do anything whatsoever to alleviate the stigma which still pervades our society.

Insofar as using HIV laws in order to hold someone while other, more serious charges (such as rape) are brought about, I am reminded that this was the very justification for retaining laws against sodomy in the US until a few years ago.

For someone to intentionally spread HIV is indeed monstrous.

For someone to intentionally place themselves at risk for HIV is..... what, exactly?

Surely there are other laws to punish those who infect others with malice or disregard for human life. Aggravated assault, for example, which carries it's own burden of proof. But for laws currently in effect, where infection does not even need to take place for an arrest, trial, and conviction to be made (such as here in GA), the laws which target HIV infection are simple stigma, made legal.

Completely absolving the negative party for a consensual act is, in my humble opinion, one of the cornerstones of the failure of HIV prevention.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

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Offline Peter Staley

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Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #39 on: October 21, 2008, 02:30:21 PM »
Completely absolving the negative party for a consensual act is, in my humble opinion, one of the cornerstones of the failure of HIV prevention.

There's a difference, though.  The negative party can be accused of stupidity, and being a party to harming themself.  But the positive party who knowingly, deceptively, and intentionally infects the negative party should be accused of a crime, because they intentionally hurt someone else.

Are you also willing to say that the girl who wears sexy clothing down a dark city street is partly to blame for being raped?  Even if one thinks her stupid for putting herself in danger, does that mean the rapist should get off scott free?

Offline Assurbanipal

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Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #40 on: October 21, 2008, 02:40:47 PM »
Peter

This case appears to be about knowingly and recklessly exposing rather than knowingly and intentionally infecting.  Do you have the same view for both situations?

I'm with you on intentional infection, but this seems a bit different.

Assurbanipal
« Last Edit: October 21, 2008, 02:43:44 PM by Assurbanipal »
5/06 VL 1M+, CD4 22, 5% , pneumonia, thrush -- O2 support 2 months, 6/06 +Kaletra/Truvada
9/06 VL 3959 CD4 297 13.5% 12/06 VL <400 CD4 350 15.2% +Pravachol
2007 VL<400, 70, 50 CD4 408-729 16.0% -19.7%
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Offline Basquo

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Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #41 on: October 21, 2008, 02:41:14 PM »

   This man, as the OP has stated, is making it his duty to spread the virus and he is KNOWINGLY doing so.  I agree with Basquo that this helps add to the stigma that people like me are just plain dirty, perhaps I got what I deserved because I am evil.  Stories like this do and will have a negative effect on peoples understanding of us pozzies.


I want to clarify that I was referring to the retalitory posts on craigslist, the ones that warn people to stay away from someone because they have (supposedly) HIV.

Offline Moffie65

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Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #42 on: October 21, 2008, 02:44:11 PM »
I am going to say something here that will surely piss someone off, but I have the thought after reading this thread, so here goes.

We are responsible for HIV infections of the ignoant.  

I say that because we are the ones that are totally responsible for the Stigma that encourages ignorance by living in our protective closets.

If we were all to come out of our HIV closets, the world would by necesity, finally be driven to education, and therefore help keep people like the OP's neighbor from subjecting themselves to becoming infected.  

Maybe this kind of reasoning is totally shit, but from my 25 years experience; nobody who has used protection, and only had intercourse with protection has ever become HIV+.  Therefore it seems only obvious that the HIV- person is totally responsible for their own health.  

Those who have been raped are obviously not responsible, but there are rape laws to accomidate this part of the story.
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
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It's just that they need more supervision.
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Offline Peter Staley

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Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #43 on: October 21, 2008, 02:47:30 PM »
Peter

This case appears to be about knowingly and recklessly exposing rather than knowingly and intentionally infecting.  Do you have the same view for both situations?

I'm with you on intentional infection, but this seems a bit different.

Assurabanipal

Again, each case is different -- that's why we have courts.  But I think both of these could be (should be?) criminal, although not the same.  They go to motive, right?  And there are different criminal charges depending on motive -- courts have to grapple with that all the time.  Just like the difference between manslaughter (recklessness) and murder (intentional), and the various degrees of murder, which all have to do with motive and circumstance.

Peter

Offline Assurbanipal

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Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #44 on: October 21, 2008, 03:21:58 PM »
 They go to motive, right?  And there are different criminal charges depending on motive -- courts have to grapple with that all the time.  Just like the difference between manslaughter (recklessness) and murder (intentional), and the various degrees of murder, which all have to do with motive and circumstance.

Peter


Intent vs reckless is about motive.

But there is also the issue of exposure vs actual infection.

To use the manslaughter / murder analogy assumes that an infection actually takes place -- in this case the analogy would be a prosecution for reckless endangerment which I think s pretty rare when applied to the endangerment of adults (who are assumed to be able to take steps to avoid risks).
5/06 VL 1M+, CD4 22, 5% , pneumonia, thrush -- O2 support 2 months, 6/06 +Kaletra/Truvada
9/06 VL 3959 CD4 297 13.5% 12/06 VL <400 CD4 350 15.2% +Pravachol
2007 VL<400, 70, 50 CD4 408-729 16.0% -19.7%
2008 VL UD CD4 468 - 538 16.7% - 24.6% Osteoporosis 11/08 doubled Pravachol, +Calcium/D
02/09 VL 100 CD4 616 23.7% 03/09 VL 130 5/09 VL 100 CD4 540 28.4% +Actonel (osteoporosis) 7/09 VL 130
8/09  new regimen Isentress/Epzicom 9/09 VL UD CD4 621 32.7% 11/09 VL UD CD4 607 26.4% swap Isentress for Prezista/Norvir 12/09 (liver and muscle issues) VL 50
2010 VL UD CD4 573-680 26.1% - 30.9% 12/10 VL 20
2011 VL UD-20 CD4 568-673 24.7%-30.6%
2012 VL UD swap Prezista/Norvir for Reyataz drop statin CD4 768-828 26.7%-30.7%

Offline newt

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Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #45 on: October 21, 2008, 04:23:15 PM »
To be honest, much of the moral discourse above leaves me unmoved,

The practical point is perhaps (Rayray) is there a way for you to have real life discussions with the guy in your building to take steps to protect himself, or enlist someone else to do this?

Moffie makes a good point about stigma creating outsiders, but while LAWS and THE MEDIA and PEOPLE go on treating people with HIV like outsiders, not to mention us queers etc, some is gonna behave like outsiders.

I just point out: if said bloke whose morals are being discussed went out with (1) 'flu, it would be nothing to most people, even though 'flu kills many, many people (and is widely contagious) (2) TB, it would be, nearly everywhere, a public health not a criminal matter (also contagious).

And: how bout stopping Philip Morris selling cigarettes and MacDonalds burgers?

- matt
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Online RapidRod

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Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #46 on: October 21, 2008, 04:29:15 PM »
He didn't go out to spread the flu, TB or anything else. He knowingly went out with the intention of spreading HIV. BIG DIFFERENCE.

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #47 on: October 21, 2008, 04:34:29 PM »
I want to clarify that I was referring to the retalitory posts on craigslist, the ones that warn people to stay away from someone because they have (supposedly) HIV.

  Sorry for my confusion Basquo.  I meant to reference someone else's post.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #48 on: October 21, 2008, 06:05:23 PM »
Quote
Are you also willing to say that the girl who wears sexy clothing down a dark city street is partly to blame for being raped?  Even if one thinks her stupid for putting herself in danger, does that mean the rapist should get off scott free?

Um, that is not only a fallacious strawman argument, but it borders on flamebaiting. Can I report you to you?

:)

Equating consensual sexual acts between adults and rape is not the sort of argument I expected here.

Now, if you want to make the argument that the negative persons were of diminished capacity, it would be more sound. Then again, it would also make the sex less consensual. If indeed there are levels of consent.

I repeat, and shall continue to repeat, that to consent to unprotected sex with a partner of unknown status is to consent to the possibility of acquiring an STD, including HIV.  That's simply my position insofar as consensual sexual activity is concerned, period.

Seriously, that rape analogy was pretty offensive. I guess I was asking for it, wearing this skimpy computer and walking down a dark thread.



"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

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Offline mecch

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Re: Knowingly spreading Hiv Can somebody shed some light?
« Reply #49 on: October 21, 2008, 06:11:16 PM »
I cringe when I see the ads on craigslist that say "Watch out for this guy, he has HIV," because I think it adds to the stigma for everybody who's poz. And you don't know what the poster's true intentions are, or even if it's true that the subject has HIV and is intent on spreading it around.

Yeah i agree with this.  Thats what I said in my post, too. Its just too difficult to know whats really happening in the supposed hook ups of the supposed "Typhoid Mary"s. Seems to smear us all, though obviously it would be better if we could all ensure that everyone is responsible about safer sex.

That said, why is it that I keep hearing these horror stories about people who intentionally infect, and have a hard time believing it?   When it seems to happen quite a bit.  I don't want to believe the truth.

Did you see that the trial is happening now for the Dutch guys who were intentionally infecting?
http://news.smh.com.au/world/dutch-hiv-sex-party-accused-on-trial-20081016-51or.html

I don't want to believe it, 'cause its too scarey....

“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

 


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