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Author Topic: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid  (Read 12107 times)

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Offline Joe K

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Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« on: September 26, 2008, 09:45:26 AM »
This article just ran in the New York Times.  Is she really the best the Republicans could do for a VP pick?  Is this the woman you would want "a heart beat away" from being president???

September 26, 2008
Editorial Observer
Wasilla Watch: Sarah Palin and the Rape Kits
By DOROTHY SAMUELS

Even in tough budget times, there are lines that cannot be crossed. So I was startled by this tidbit reported recently by The Associated Press: When Sarah Palin was mayor of Wasilla, Alaska, the small town began billing sexual-assault victims for the cost of rape kits and forensic exams.

Ms. Palin owes voters an explanation. What was the thinking behind cutting the measly few thousand dollars needed to cover the yearly cost of swabs, specimen containers and medical tests? Whose dumb idea was it to make assault victims and their insurance companies pay instead? Unfortunately, her campaign is shielding the candidate from the press, so Americans may still be waiting for answers on Election Day.

The rape-kit controversy is a troubling matter. The insult to rape victims is obvious. So is the sexism inherent in singling them out to foot the bill for investigating their own case. And the main result of billing rape victims is to protect their attackers by discouraging women from reporting sexual assaults.

That’s why when Senator Joseph Biden, the Democratic vice-presidential nominee, drafted the 1994 Violence Against Women Act, he included provisions to make states ineligible for federal grant money if they charged rape victims for exams and the kits containing the medical supplies needed to conduct them. (Senator John McCain, Ms. Palin’s running mate, voted against Mr. Biden’s initiative, and his name has not been among the long list of co-sponsors each time the act has been renewed.)

That’s also why, when news of Wasilla’s practice of billing rape victims got around, Alaska’s State Legislature approved a bill in 2000 to stop it.

“We would never bill the victim of a burglary for fingerprinting and photographing the crime scene, or for the cost of gathering other evidence,” said Alaska’s then-governor, Tony Knowles. “Nor should we bill rape victims just because the crime scene happens to be their bodies.”

If Ms. Palin ever spoke out about the issue, one way or another, no record has surfaced. Her campaign would not answer questions about when she learned of the policy, strongly supported by the police chief: whether she saw it in the budget and if not, whether she learned of it before or after the State Legislature outlawed the practice.

All the campaign would do was provide a press release pronouncing: “Prevention of domestic violence and sexual assault is a priority for Gov. Palin.”

Eric Croft, a former Democratic state lawmaker who sponsored the corrective legislation, believes that Wasilla’s mayor knew what was going on. (She does seem to have paid heed to every other detail of town life, including what books were on the library’s shelves.)

The local hospital did the billing, but it was the town that set the policy, Mr. Croft noted. That policy was reflected in budget documents that Ms. Palin signed.

Mr. Croft further noted that right after his measure became law, Wasilla’s local paper reported that Ms. Palin’s handpicked police chief, Charlie Fannon, acknowledged the practice of billing to collect evidence for sexual-assault cases. He complained that the state was requiring the town to spend $5,000 to $14,000 a year to cover the costs. “I just don’t want to see any more burden put on the taxpayer,” the chief explained.

“I can’t imagine any police chief, big city or small, who would take on the entire State Legislature on a bill that passed unanimously and not mention to their mayor that they’re doing this,” Mr. Croft said. Even if he didn’t inform her, the newspaper article would have been hard for her to miss.

In the absence of answers, speculation is bubbling in the blogosphere that Wasilla’s policy of billing rape victims may have something to do with Ms. Palin’s extreme opposition to abortion, even in cases of rape. Sexual-assault victims are typically offered an emergency contraception pill, which some people in the anti-choice camp wrongly equate with abortion.

My hunch is that it was the result of outmoded attitudes and boneheaded budget cutting. Still, Ms. Palin has been governor for under two years, and she’s running for vice president largely on her experience as mayor of tiny Wasilla — a far superior credential, she’s told us, to being a community organizer. On the rape kits, as on other issues, she owes voters a direct answer.

Offline AlanBama

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2008, 10:30:19 AM »
I watched Chris Rock on Larry King last night; he was hilarious talking about her.   I agree with him on this:   On the couple of interviews she HAS deigned to do (Charlie Gibson, Katie Couric) after about 3 or 4 minutes in, you kind of start to feel sorry for her.......

She scares me too, Joe.  Big time.   I wouldn't trust her as far as I could throw her.    Can you imagine her in a debate with Joe Biden?  That should be interesting......of course, they will probably come up with some excuse as to why she can't attend.....

I got some more repugnican "hate" mail today about "Barack Hussein Obama" refusing to hold his hand over his heart for the pledge of allegiance.......these clowns are so lame.   Unfortunately this is the mentality of so many voters.....scary times, indeed.

hugs,
Alan

PS - so good to see you back with us Joe!  I've missed you
"Remember my sentimental friend that a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others." - The Wizard of Oz

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2008, 11:45:04 AM »
What's scarier to imagine than her in a debate with Joe Biden,  is Palin playing president in a meeting with Putin, for example. She could tell him she can see his country from Alaska. And then what?

This whole situation would be Marx Brothers hilarious if it wasn't so terrifying.
Andy Velez

Offline HopeandCope

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2008, 12:36:12 PM »
She is Phyllis Schafley on crack!
Jude
Hope and Cope Support Site
A Safe Place for Families & Friends of HIV+ People
http://hopeandcope.blogspot.com/

Offline hotpuppy

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2008, 01:24:22 PM »
I think having a soccer mom and a veteran in office is better than having two lawyers there.  She has a higher probability of understanding the average person than Obama or Biden.  McCain, likewise is also more likely to be in touch with the average guy.  Obama and Biden have been career politicians.  It's unlikely that either has ever had a job that required them to be at risk.  By at risk, I mean physical or financial.

Palin has been a fisherman (yes that is correct) in Alaska which is no small feat. If you have not lived there it's a challenging place to live.  Palin's husband is a pilot, fisherman, and blue collar kinda guy.

McCain served in the military and has regularly stood for what he believes in in the Senate.  McCain's wife is in the alchohol business and has done quite well, regardless of how she got there.  It's notable that there is a prenup.  So he's really there for her, not her money.

Obama is married to a full time organizer.  He was a lawyer briefly, but has basically run for office his entire professional life.  He refuses to acknowledge his muslim heritage. 

Biden has been a politician his entire life.  He was briefly a private attorney.  While he has some adversity and tragedy in his life he flip flops.  Most notably, he stated earlier this year he would never run for VP.  He also stated Obama was entirely not qualified to be president.  Yet suddenly he's Obama's best friend?  BS.  I smell a snowjob a mile away.

I personally think these things boil down to a lesser of evils contest.  In which case I'd rather have the guy who could have left the POW camp because of his status, but stayed because he gave a damn about his fellow soldiers and the anti-abortion mother who has been a commercial fisherman and a basketball player. 

For some reason I think that will be less evil than putting two more lawyers in the white house who check the direction of the wind before announcing an opinion.
Don't obsess over the wrong things.  Life isn't about your numbers, it isn't about this forum, it isn't about someone's opinion.  It's about getting out there and enjoying it.   I am a person with HIV - not the other way around.

Offline David_CA

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2008, 01:40:49 PM »
H'puppy, now that IS funny!  You do sarcasm well without even using a smiley face thing to show that you're joking!   :D  What's especially funny, to me, is that being a fisher(wo)man is like being VP or even the Prez, right?  I mean who would better know how to get things done than somebody who's in politics for the long haul.  The last 'soccer mom' I saw was driving a Suburban with one child in the vehicle yapping on a cell phone.  She was probably planning something; I bet she could run a country, too!  All this time we've been needing good politicians they were right there in front of us:  soccer moms and veterans... what have we been thinking for all these years?

If I thought for a minute that you weren't joking, that you actually believed what you posted as truth instead of the joke that it is, I'd be... shocked, disappointed, scared that others might actually fall for that kind of thinking. 
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Funkengruven

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2008, 01:41:34 PM »
I don't want my president and vice president to be an "average joe" or ordinary.  I expect the future leaders of one of the most powerful countries on the planet to be extraordinary.  I expect them to demonstrate leadership and knowledge above and beyond that of the average citizen in the areas of politics, law, economics, and international diplomacy.  I feel McCain and Palin have demonstrated a lack of knowledge or skill in all of these areas.

And please, I had hoped that all that Obama/Muslim nonsense had died for good. Apparently not.

Offline BT65

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2008, 01:45:51 PM »
It was McCain's own fault he even was a POW.  He left the formation his unit was flying in to try to fight the enemy alone (a direct violation of orders).  He's too aged to be president, and Palin is way too out of touch with the average person (someone like me, for example).

As for her approving the legislation that billed rape victims for the kits, how dare she!  Being a rape victim a couple times myself, I couldn't imagine getting a bill for being attacked by an assailant.  That's absolutely ludicrous.  She's an under-handed bitch, pure and simple.  I wonder if a bill was sent to guardians of children who were molested. >:(

McCain/Palin would take this country and the average Joe to hell.  McCain's medical records (all of them, not just some of them) need to be released and he has constantly blocked this.  He forgets things when he talks also.  And Palin might be a fisherlady in Alaska, but I fail to see how that qualifies her to run a country.  In other words, she's a horrible candidate who could be president should something happen to McCain (if they're elected, God help us).  Her latest remark about having foreign relation experience by being able to see Russia shows what an unthinking person she is.  

Hopefully McCain's campaign will fall apart, and this country will have a chance.  Just my thoughts.
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline atlq

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2008, 01:59:59 PM »
I think having a soccer mom and a veteran in office is better than having two lawyers there.  She has a higher probability of understanding the average person than Obama or Biden.  McCain, likewise is also more likely to be in touch with the average guy.  Obama and Biden have been career politicians.  It's unlikely that either has ever had a job that required them to be at risk.  By at risk, I mean physical or financial.

Palin has been a fisherman (yes that is correct) in Alaska which is no small feat. If you have not lived there it's a challenging place to live.  Palin's husband is a pilot, fisherman, and blue collar kinda guy.

McCain served in the military and has regularly stood for what he believes in in the Senate.  McCain's wife is in the alchohol business and has done quite well, regardless of how she got there.  It's notable that there is a prenup.  So he's really there for her, not her money.

Obama is married to a full time organizer.  He was a lawyer briefly, but has basically run for office his entire professional life.  He refuses to acknowledge his muslim heritage. 

Biden has been a politician his entire life.  He was briefly a private attorney.  While he has some adversity and tragedy in his life he flip flops.  Most notably, he stated earlier this year he would never run for VP.  He also stated Obama was entirely not qualified to be president.  Yet suddenly he's Obama's best friend?  BS.  I smell a snowjob a mile away.

I personally think these things boil down to a lesser of evils contest.  In which case I'd rather have the guy who could have left the POW camp because of his status, but stayed because he gave a damn about his fellow soldiers and the anti-abortion mother who has been a commercial fisherman and a basketball player. 

For some reason I think that will be less evil than putting two more lawyers in the white house who check the direction of the wind before announcing an opinion.


Yeah...because that strategy has really been vindicated over the past eight years.....

Puppy, a little friendly advice...Don't drink and blog..... ;D

« Last Edit: September 26, 2008, 02:43:04 PM by atlq »
“Keep up the good work....   And God bless you.”
  --  Sarah Palin, to members of the Alaskan Independence Party, 2008

Offline Buckmark

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2008, 02:11:28 PM »
I think having a soccer mom and a veteran in office is better than having two lawyers there.  She has a higher probability of understanding the average person than Obama or Biden.  McCain, likewise is also more likely to be in touch with the average guy. 

I don't see how the average joe can related to someone like John McCain who can't even remember how many houses he owns.

Quote
Obama and Biden have been career politicians.

John McCain has been in politics for 26 years.  I'd say that a pretty good career.

Quote
It's unlikely that either has ever had a job that required them to be at risk.  By at risk, I mean physical or financial.  Palin has been a fisherman (yes that is correct) in Alaska which is no small feat. If you have not lived there it's a challenging place to live.  Palin's husband is a pilot, fisherman, and blue collar kinda guy.

There are lots of fishmerman, and lots of soccer moms.  Are they all qualified to be vice-president?

Quote
McCain served in the military and has regularly stood for what he believes in in the Senate.  McCain's wife is in the alchohol business and has done quite well, regardless of how she got there.  It's notable that there is a prenup.  So he's really there for her, not her money.


I'm not sure why McCain's relationship with his wife is relevant here.  You are right that she has done *quite* well financially -- she is freaking loaded -- not something the average joe can relate to these days.

Quote
Obama is married to a full time organizer.  He was a lawyer briefly, but has basically run for office his entire professional life. 

Obama was a community organizer and civil rights attorney, helping ensure people's rights were not violated or trampled on.   I guess if you've never had that happen to you, then you can't relate.  Then he was a law professor.

So you are wrong in saying that he has run for office his entire professional life. 

Quote
He refuses to acknowledge his muslim heritage. 

Obama is a Christian, plain and simple. 

It's clear, though, that you have issues with Muslims.

Quote
Biden has been a politician his entire life.  He was briefly a private attorney.  While he has some adversity and tragedy in his life he flip flops.  Most notably, he stated earlier this year he would never run for VP.  He also stated Obama was entirely not qualified to be president.  Yet suddenly he's Obama's best friend?  BS.  I smell a snowjob a mile away.

Every politician changes their mind (flip flops, as you say).  Have you never changed your mind?  Here are a list of some of John McCain's flip flops:

http://www.alternet.org/election08/90956/?page=entire

Quote
I personally think these things boil down to a lesser of evils contest.  In which case I'd rather have the guy who could have left the POW camp because of his status, but stayed because he gave a damn about his fellow soldiers and the anti-abortion mother who has been a commercial fisherman and a basketball player. 

Everyone gets to vote for who they want.  I just don't see fishing and basketball as being qualifications for being VP.

Quote
For some reason I think that will be less evil than putting two more lawyers in the white house who check the direction of the wind before announcing an opinion.

Personally, I'd prefer someone who look arounds and gather the available facts before making a decision.  Look where George Bush's single-mindedness got us:  a war for 5+ years.

And, McCain's choice of Palin was an outstanding example of "checking the wind" before making a decision.

Regards,

Henry
"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things:
     One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell.
     The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love."
- Butch Hancock, Musician, The Flatlanders

Offline dixieman

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2008, 03:18:00 PM »
I have to agree with hotpuppy... I see no problem for either McCain and or Palin... and I question Obama... but, I'm open to all views... etc... from both sides. I've never Voted democrate and its less likely I will in the future.

Offline emeraldize

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2008, 05:29:53 PM »
This whole situation would be Marx Brothers hilarious if it wasn't so terrifying.

Andy, I agree.

Offline Ric Wilke

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2008, 07:57:01 PM »
Write-in campaign suggestion:

Ric Wilke / Thom Martin on the Independent Ballot.

Next AMG would then be hosted in the White House.

Offline anniebc

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2008, 08:52:45 PM »
from Buckmark

Quote
There are lots of fishmerman, and lots of soccer moms.  Are they all qualified to be vice-president?

If they are then Ann and I should be in the running, Ann was a fisherman on The Rock, I fish, was a soccer/rugby Mum for years and now a rugby/hockey/touch football grandmother, maybe it's time for you guys to vote us in .... ;D

Hugs
Jan :-*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Offline David_CA

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2008, 09:06:20 PM »
from Buckmark

If they are then Ann and I should be in the running, Ann was a fisherman on The Rock, I fish, was a soccer/rugby Mum for years and now a rugby/hockey/touch football grandmother, maybe it's time for you guys to vote us in .... ;D

Hugs
Jan :-*

Sounds like a GREAT idea!  I'll let you two duke it out to see who's gonna be prez and who's gonna be the VP!   :D
Black Friday 03-03-2006
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  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
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09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
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You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Joe K

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2008, 09:19:06 PM »
Only a native born American can be president, so that would be Ann and I do not know if there is a simiiliar qualification for VP.

Offline anniebc

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2008, 09:22:35 PM »
Only a native born American can be president, so that would be Ann and I do not know if there is a simiiliar qualification for VP.

Bugger..and David was so looking forward to a Cat fight..I can do a really bad American accent if that helps.. ;D

Hugs
Jan :-*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never knock on deaths door..ring the bell and run..he really hates that.

Offline David_CA

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2008, 09:29:42 PM »
Bugger..and David was so looking forward to a Cat fight..I can do a really bad American accent if that helps.. ;D

Hugs
Jan :-*

But can you sound Southern? 
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05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
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11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
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11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
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You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline anniebc

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2008, 09:35:37 PM »
But can you sound Southern? 

Hell no..no-one does Southern better than a true Southerner.. ;)

Hugs
Jan :-*
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Offline Joe K

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2008, 09:39:25 PM »
How do you think the debate will go between Sara Palin and Joe Biden?  I envision a scene just like seal hunting with Joe bashing Sarah with a club, as she looks on all wide-eyed and dazed.

Offline libvet

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2008, 09:44:48 PM »
I see a lot of rationalizations made about why John McCain who is the son of an admiral and a career politician who left his wife for a rich beer heiress and whose one executive decision he has made thus far has been foisting this ex-beauty queen who gets prayed over in church to keep the witches (literally...no joke) from derailing her political career and believes one can "pray the gay away", points her finger in judgment on the families of others and sarcastically belittling people who work day in and day out to make their community and the world a better place.....are the people who are more likely to get how life is for the average joe than the man with a funny name who grew up with a single mom while barely scraping by in Kansas, lived the American dream and got an education in two very prestigious colleges, while excelling at it.  Then, he goes on to use his education to become a community organizer and civil rights attorney and a teacher while marrying a nice woman who wasn't exactly an heiress herself and goes on to build a family together.

In the old days, people who actually went out and bettered themselves and made a success out of lives despite their modest resources growing up and didn't become totally selfish ass hats in the process were the kind of people we looked up and aspired to be.

And someone wants to tell me that the guy who had life handed to him on a silver platter, who was unfortunate enough to have to live through being a POW and came back to a marriage that failed while he was hooking up with a beer heiress,  and uses those connections to get him a place in the Senate where he served for 26 years, is the guy better able to "relate" to the experience of the average American?

That I don't get.  Even looking past the fact McCain is oblivious to the economic crisis unfolding as a result of some the very policies he championed, seems oddly confused about the nuances of the Middle East for someone who boasts such a huge foreign relations portfolio, and the fact that he has flip-flopped on everything (torture, taxes, regulation, drilling, privacy) with there possible exception of campaign finance reform,  there is a steady trickle of people who are more about, "Well, yeah....but there's something about Barack Obama".

I'm not talking about average "dyed in the wool" hardcore republican.  I'm talking about people who are otherwise feeling the pinch and can see that things have been pretty well bollixed by the republicans in the last 8 years.

The way I see it, I could put my armchair psychologist hat on and give my impressions of that latter person I have encountered far too often for my comfort.

As near as I can tell, the vast majority of those people I could run a point by point discussion where we absolutely agree on everything (civil rights, worker's rights, education, opportunities, help for the needy, rebuilding our reputation as a nation, health care, investing in our infrastructure...etc).  And then we get to Barack Obama.  Barack Hussein Obama.  A man who pretty much stands in line with their way of thinking.  But man, that's a fucked up name.   Oh, and did you happen to notice the amount of melanin in his skin?  And worked in the inner city of Chicago.

Honestly, I think it makes people more open on subconscious to believe something must be wrong with him and more likely to believe whatever nonsense used by some to build on that "gut level" mistrust.  Everything superficially screams, EXOTIC, about him..or more succinctly "different".  

But in the final analysis, those things that "just don't feel right" seem to be based on superficial impressions and little to do with objective reality.   I think a goodly portion of those feelings may have more to do with latent prejudice, not necessarily of the racial type, that leads one to accept stories and rumors that one can drive a truck through ("sworn in on the Koran", "won't say the pledge", "is a secret muslim", "harbors radical African-American sentiments").   They allow people to rationalize and shore up their superficial impressions keeping them from objectively looking at the facts.

The end result is profoundly tragic and self-contradictory.  Intellectual ability and curiosity are looked are suddenly "elitist".  And self-achievement is "opportunism".  Even a cursory examination of the facts says this man, Barack Obama, has done precisely the kinds of things that should be admired, not dismissed.

Except for those silly superficial things that at the end of the day are really not all that important.  

When push comes to shove, when pressed, I've rarely met anyone who could tell me why they disliked Obama that didn't throw up at least one or two "urban myths" that have been widely debunked as why they just don't trust Obama.  

They are rationalizations for the most part.   Tell me you disagree with Obama's policies and be specific.  Tell me what really sets you on fire for McCain and be specific.    I can respect that.

The rationalizations and vague "gut feelings"......not so much.


Offline edfu

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2008, 11:11:38 PM »
I didn't see ABC, but post debate tonight NBC and CBS both invited the two Vice Presidential candidates to comment.  Joe Biden appeared on both NBC and CBS. 

NBC announced that Palin declined to do so. 

Duh.

However, the Palin staff sent Rudy Giuliani instead.   ::)
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Offline thunter34

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2008, 01:11:38 PM »
I didn't see ABC, but post debate tonight NBC and CBS both invited the two Vice Presidential candidates to comment.  Joe Biden appeared on both NBC and CBS. 

NBC announced that Palin declined to do so. 

Duh.

However, the Palin staff sent Rudy Giuliani instead.   ::)

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MDZiMDhjYTU1NmI5Y2MwZjg2MWNiMWMyYTUxZDkwNTE=
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Offline edfu

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2008, 08:04:28 PM »
"Palin Is Ready?  Please.":

http://www.newsweek.com/id/161204
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Offline Joe K

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2008, 09:23:56 PM »
I believe that John McCain deserves to lose and lose badly, after choosing Sarah as his running mate.  His trying to foist her onto the American public as someone even remotely qualified to be VP is an insult to all Americans.  So John, which is it?

Did you put your country first and find the best possible candidate as your running mate?  Or, did you pick someone who you thought could pander to your constituency?  And in that case, you would be putting your own self interests ahead of those of America.

I think we all now know the answer to that question.

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2008, 09:51:30 PM »
"Palin Is Ready?  Please.":

http://www.newsweek.com/id/161204

Good article. I'm looking at Palin as a litmus test of the intelligence of the American people.

Offline edfu

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2008, 10:03:38 PM »
the intelligence of the American people

That's an oxymoron if I ever saw one.  You're more optimistic than I am. 
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Offline bmancanfly

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2008, 10:13:15 PM »
I agree with what libvet said so well above.

I can't understand how anyone gay can vote Republican at all.  Particularly for Palin.  "Pray the gay away"  Pleeez.  I  don't  see how an ignorant, rightwing, "christian" fanatic, from an extremely isolated small town in Alaska can understand the common man.  She is not at all representative of the common man - in her beliefs or life experience.  She is manifestly unqualified to be president, and that becomes painfully apparent ever time she opens her mouth.  The intellectual gymnastics the one has to go through to try to justify her position on the ticket boogles the mind.  Shame on John McCain, and anyone supporting her (to there credit some Republicans are finally beginning to speak up, but not nearly enough).

Barack Obama's life story is the epitome of the America dream.  Yet so many try and dismiss it.  Discribing him as somehow alien -  unamerican

When I hear anyone gay say they are supporting this ticket I shake my head is disbelief.  What do you think Palin's positions will be on Equal rights for gays, hiv meds funding, aids research funding?  You really think she will be our friend?  If you do, I say you're clueless, in denial, or both.

GO BARACK!
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt."

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Offline komnaes

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2008, 10:34:26 PM »
Good article. I'm looking at Palin as a litmus test of the intelligence of the American people.

The Republicans have bet on the anti-intelligence of Americans and won twice with Bush.. can't see how it cannot happen again
Aug 07 Diagnosed
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Offline edfu

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2008, 10:38:55 PM »
When I hear anyone gay say they are supporting this ticket I shake my head is disbelief.  What do you think Palin's positions will be on Equal rights for gays, hiv meds funding, aids research funding?  You really think she will be our friend?  If you do, I say you're clueless, in denial, or both.

Well said!  I didn't shake my head, but I almost threw something at my computer screen after reading hotpuppy's Reply #4 above in this thread.  He's not only clueless and in denial; he's just plain.... I won't say, because I don't want a time out.   Is it possible we have a member of the Log Cabin Republicans in our midst?  It's one thing for someone gay to support McPalin, but one who is HIV+???  One whose personal blog is mostly about how many dicks he can suck and contains blatantly racist statements?   We know John and Sarah are grateful for his support.

I was trying so hard not to respond to Reply #4, but my tongue is bleeding from biting on it.        
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Offline komnaes

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #30 on: September 28, 2008, 02:24:07 AM »
I think those gay folks supporting Republicans/McCain should be told again and again that another 4 years of the conservatives they would finally get the Supreme Court they want for many years to come. Most of the liberal justices are old, and during the last 8 years Bush scored big time already with John Roberts. One more term of Republicans and you guys are this close to having Roe v. Wade revoked.

It can also mean death by stoning of homosexuals, well, exaggerated maybe, but I am not so sure a new Supreme Court with a justice or two replaced and appointed by a McCain will not uphold the constitutionality of the state's right to make their laws on penalizing gay sex again and banning abortion all together even for rape victims. And dream on with having any civil union for same sex couples as once the Republicans succeed in appointing just one or more God-fearing creationism-supporting conservative to the Supreme Court, which is where the constitutional and legal validity will be challenged and decided.

Just for this fact alone should make any gay men taking a month leave and start campaigning for Obama.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2008, 02:26:17 AM by komnaes »
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Offline madbrain

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #31 on: September 29, 2008, 07:12:22 AM »
I met Sarah Palin yesterday at the Folsom street fair. She was very, very afraid.
http://share.ovi.com/media/madbrain.FolsomStreetFai/madbrain.11715

Offline GSOgymrat

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Offline pozattitude

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #33 on: September 29, 2008, 10:58:49 AM »
I met Sarah Palin yesterday at the Folsom street fair. She was very, very afraid.
http://share.ovi.com/media/madbrain.FolsomStreetFai/madbrain.11715


Yes, I met her too!...lol
POSITIVE PEDALERS... We are a group of people living with HIV/AIDS, eliminating stigma through our positive public example.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #34 on: September 29, 2008, 11:58:53 AM »
Can I just say I LOVE SARAH PALIN.  I haven't had this much fun in ages... seriously.  I just read that there are two left-out portions of the Couric interview that may be coming out, and that should prove even more disastrous than the other bits. :)

For some reason she reminds me of what a character would be like for an American version of an Almodóvar flick.  Can't put my finger on exactly why.  DISCUSS.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline thunter34

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #35 on: September 29, 2008, 12:28:10 PM »
Palin's interview responses with Couric reminded me of this other beauty queen....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww


Seriously.
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Offline woodshere

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #36 on: September 29, 2008, 01:30:11 PM »
You know I am kind of feeling sorry for her.  I really don't think she is a complete idiot, just ill informed and out of her league on the national scene.  One can't be completely brainless to run and win a statewide election.  And in Alaska she has to be doing something right to have had an 80% approval rating.  I doubt she campaigned to be his vice-presidential candidate and when the nominee of your party comes knocking at the door who says no.  McCain and his advisers are to blame. 

That being said looks like philly was right and we have more to look forward to:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0908/More_to_come_from_PalinCouric.html#comments

What amazes me is that there are people that think she is qualified to be president.  Cannot understand?!?!?!?!
« Last Edit: September 29, 2008, 01:33:45 PM by woodshere »
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Offline pozattitude

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #37 on: September 29, 2008, 02:31:23 PM »
Can I just say I LOVE SARAH PALIN.  I haven't had this much fun in ages... seriously.  I just read that there are two left-out portions of the Couric interview that may be coming out, and that should prove even more disastrous than the other bits. :)

For some reason she reminds me of what a character would be like for an American version of an Almodóvar flick.  Can't put my finger on exactly why.  DISCUSS.

maybe it is because she resembles the crazy nut character from Women at the Verge of a Nervous Breakdown...lol... and how fitting...lol...guns and all....



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Offline edfu

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #38 on: September 29, 2008, 09:50:13 PM »
I see no problem for either McCain and or Palin... and I question Obama... but, I'm open to all views... etc... from both sides. I've never Voted democrate and its less likely I will in the future.

So it goes in the great state of Alabama....
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #39 on: September 29, 2008, 10:39:13 PM »
So it goes in the great state of Alabama....

HEY NOW ... we all don't feel that way down here  ;D . I for one will be heart sick if Obama is not elected . ???

Offline edfu

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #40 on: September 29, 2008, 10:51:33 PM »
Sorry, Jeff, there are always exceptions.  However, we all know there is no chance in hell that Obama will ever win Alabama's electoral votes. 
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #41 on: September 29, 2008, 11:00:19 PM »
Sorry, Jeff, there are always exceptions.  However, we all know there is no chance in hell that Obama will ever win Alabama's electoral votes. 


I was just joking , no offense taken . I will be voting my conscious all the same .

Offline AlanBama

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #42 on: September 30, 2008, 08:17:36 PM »
This screwed up state has more "one issue" voters than anywhere I know of.   And what's the one issue?  Why, of course, it is the most IMPORTANT issue facing America today....and no, I don't mean
the Economy, or the War in Iraq, or any of that triviality.....I'm talking about ABORTION.   

Can you believe someone would vote, based on that issue alone?   Believe me, they can, do, and will.
It makes some of us crazy, but it is what it is.

alanBAMA for oBAMA  :-*

edited to add:
The only reason I can imagine someone GAY claiming to be republican, would be that they may have personally never been subjected to any form of discrimination.   They're young, give em time.....

a little history lesson from an old guy:

I was fired from my very first 'out of college' job [1978-1980] for being gay; the boss called me in, had two letters on his desk.  One was from him, firing me for "not performing up to expectations" and the other was from me, a letter of resignation.    He said "I don't think you want to be a 'token' like Sandra (she was the only black person in our accounting department).   You sign the resignation, we will give you a 'clean' reference.   You make us fire you, we will refuse to pay your unemployment."

I made them fire me.   They did have to pay my unemployment.   I still have that letter.

You can still be fired for being gay at many places.    Sad, but a fact of life in this country.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2008, 08:49:15 PM by AlanBama »
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Offline J.R.E.

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #43 on: September 30, 2008, 08:42:23 PM »
   

Can you believe someone would vote, based on that issue alone?   Believe me, they can, do, and will.
It makes some of us crazy, but it is what it is.



Hello Alan,

Unfortunately YES !! I believe it. It is exactly the reason Amendment- 2 , is on the Florida Ballot this year. Basically to make sure those republicans are motivated to get out and vote, for what otherwise was a dismal choice (McCain) for them this year. ! Anything with "Gay " Protect the family" or Abortion gets them out everytime. Sneaky bunch of @#@#@#@#@#@ they are.

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=23275.0



Ray

« Last Edit: September 30, 2008, 08:44:11 PM by J.R.E. »
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http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

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Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #44 on: October 01, 2008, 03:27:24 PM »
This screwed up state has more "one issue" voters than anywhere I know of.   And what's the one issue?  Why, of course, it is the most IMPORTANT issue facing America today....and no, I don't mean
the Economy, or the War in Iraq, or any of that triviality.....I'm talking about ABORTION.   

So true. One of my sisters falls into this category. I think she would rather not vote than support a candidate who was pro-choice.

Some of my family got together yesterday for my mother's birthday and it looks like the family is split on the presidential candidates. My two brothers, my father and I support Obama and my partner, my mother, my step-father and step-brother support McCain. One sister (the pro-life advocate) is probably going to write-in Ron Paul and I'm not sure where my other sister stands.

Offline dixieman

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #45 on: October 01, 2008, 03:43:28 PM »
I think Palin will look "Gorgeous" at the Inauguration in an Oscar de le Renta gown with a fabulous Polar Bear full length fur on... I have got to talk to her... she's marvelous! Prada needs her...

Offline Oceanbeach

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #46 on: October 01, 2008, 04:02:53 PM »
I think Palin will look "Gorgeous" at the Inauguration in an Oscar de le Renta gown with a fabulous Polar Bear full length fur on... I have got to talk to her... she's marvelous! Prada needs her...

But will the taxpayers put a double-wide on Pennsylvania Ave?  ;D  Have the best day
Michael

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #47 on: October 01, 2008, 04:36:19 PM »
I think Palin will look "Gorgeous" at the Inauguration in an Oscar de le Renta gown with a fabulous Polar Bear full length fur on... I have got to talk to her... she's marvelous! Prada needs her...

Something like this perhaps:



Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #48 on: October 01, 2008, 05:26:58 PM »
I think Palin will look "Gorgeous" at the Inauguration in an Oscar de le Renta gown with a fabulous Polar Bear full length fur on... I have got to talk to her... she's marvelous! Prada needs her...

By a clue, sweetheart.  Miuccia Prada was a card-carrying communist in the late 80's.  I somehow doubt she'd "need" someone as much of a far-right extremist as Sarah Palin.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline Assurbanipal

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Re: Ms. Palin: Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid
« Reply #49 on: October 01, 2008, 07:15:42 PM »
So true. One of my sisters falls into this category. I think she would rather not vote than support a candidate who was pro-choice.

Some of my family got together yesterday for my mother's birthday and it looks like the family is split on the presidential candidates. My two brothers, my father and I support Obama and my partner, my mother, my step-father and step-brother support McCain. One sister (the pro-life advocate) is probably going to write-in Ron Paul and I'm not sure where my other sister stands.

Hey isn't NC a swing state this week?  You might want to spend some time talking to your mother and partner about giving Ron Paul a second look.  ... considering family solidarity and all that ...  ;)

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2007 VL<400, 70, 50 CD4 408-729 16.0% -19.7%
2008 VL UD CD4 468 - 538 16.7% - 24.6% Osteoporosis 11/08 doubled Pravachol, +Calcium/D
02/09 VL 100 CD4 616 23.7% 03/09 VL 130 5/09 VL 100 CD4 540 28.4% +Actonel (osteoporosis) 7/09 VL 130
8/09  new regimen Isentress/Epzicom 9/09 VL UD CD4 621 32.7% 11/09 VL UD CD4 607 26.4% swap Isentress for Prezista/Norvir 12/09 (liver and muscle issues) VL 50
2010 VL UD CD4 573-680 26.1% - 30.9% 12/10 VL 20
2011 VL UD-20 CD4 568-673 24.7%-30.6%
2012 VL UD swap Prezista/Norvir for Reyataz drop statin CD4 768-828 26.7%-30.7%

 


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