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Author Topic: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on  (Read 8423 times)

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Offline Andy Velez

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Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« on: July 29, 2006, 10:45:47 AM »
Dear All,

This has a been a troubling few days for us here. It's now become apparent that Dan's announcement of his suicide attempt was in actuality, to put it as mildly as possible, a false alarm. We have received authoritative confirmation that it was all a ruse. And you know us well enough here to realize we would not say something like that unless we were certain about it. I don't want to name any sources. I will just say that Peter, Tim, Ann and I feel confident about what I am expressing here.

Of course, this action on Dan's part initially stirred a very worried and even panicky response as suicide threats will do. Even though I had my doubts about its veracity at the time, a suicide threat always has to be responded to with care and thought. And I say that even as I bear in mind what has been revealed since this all started.

Now that it turns out it wasn't for real, people understandably feel among other things, taken advantage of, lied to and abused. And all of the feelings that come along with that. 

Dealing with the aftermath of this happening is going to require some real restraint and understanding on the part of everyone here. Please keep in mind that anyone who starts this kind of false alarm is unquestionably in need professional help. However mistaken a method it was that Dan chose, he was still on some level asking for help.  I fervently hope he will do whatever is necessary to get that now.

The caring responses so many of you expressed when you were worried -- well, that kind of caring is what is needed again now in perhaps an even more challenging circumstance. After all, you've been "had." And that never feels very good. What I am asking for is restraint in your expressions about this experience. And that you not allow what has happened to erode our real strength here. 

That caring impulse on everyone's part was the right one. And I very much hope that you will not allow this event to change your willingness to support and to trust each other in the future. A basic part of what makes the Forums work is mutual trust. And we have a lot of evidence here everyday of that trust being respected. Please remember that. As upsetting as it maybe,this experience is the exception to what we're like here with each other. 

Dan needs to get help. Hopefully he will do that. He's done something very regrettable.  AND he is still a member here.

So I am asking for your forbearance and patience about what has happened.  Let's move on.

My best to all of you,   
« Last Edit: July 29, 2006, 10:47:52 AM by Andy Velez »
Andy Velez

Offline kcmetroman

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Re: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2006, 10:50:33 AM »
Dan, Dan, Dan.....

Offline ademas

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Re: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2006, 10:53:46 AM »
Quote
That caring impulse on everyone's part was the right one.

amen to that.

Offline HIVworker

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Re: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2006, 10:54:02 AM »
Thank you for letting us know. Maybe this thread should be locked and if people want to talk about it start a new thread? Just an idea.

R
NB. Any advice about HIV is given in addition to your own medical advice and not intended to replace it. You should never make clinical decisions based on what anyone says on the internet but rather check with your ID doctor first. Discussions from the internet are just that - Discussions. They may give you food for thought, but they should not direct you to do anything but fuel discussion.

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2006, 10:55:31 AM »
I agree with Andy...put this behind us and move on.

Peace,
Hal

Offline kcmetroman

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Re: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2006, 10:57:05 AM »
Hey, anybody here the one about the three guys in the old folks home?

Offline Trish

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Re: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2006, 11:20:23 AM »
So I am asking for your forbearance and patience about what has happened.  Let's move on.

Done... and moving on.

Thanks Andy!
"People grow through experience if they meet life honestly and courageously. This is how character is buit."  Eleanor Roosevelt

Offline clarke

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Re: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2006, 11:46:28 AM »
Just so ya'll know?  I used to live in Jackson, TN., (I lived in the West TN. area for almost 20 years) so I "think" I might know "Dan".  Up until 3 years ago, there used to be a lot of support, assistance and other things that PWA's used and needed.  Then, a woman of color, Charitta Johnson tore up the organization (Human Beings Care) that I had been a part of since 1995 (it was West TN. Cares at that time).  She absconded with grant money meant for "us".  And because of fear of being accused of "discrimination" no one has done anything about it.  And she is STILL writing grants for religious organizations in the area. 

When my family and I moved up here to MD., TennCare had all but kicked everyone off of the healthcare short of court appeals (which were difficult at best to get, plus they are short of legal resources for help) to get back on.  Many of them rarely know when they are going to get their next meds, much less for some of them, their next meal.  There is little if any support, and not much for medical/mental help.  Much of the medical profession has little sympathy in that area fo PWA's (a decent MD is difficult to find), and the dentists in that area would rather pull a tooth than fill the cavity (they also wear the "moon-suit" during any kind of examination).  There was one Dentist in Trenton who was very compassionate, but I think they pulled Ryan White out from under her to move the funds elsewhere.  If one wanted decent dental help, one had to go to Memphis.

The west part of TN., is still very "backward", and the entire area has many kinds of discriminations as well (not only at PWA's).  I think the word I'm looking for is "polarized".  They don't like Blacks, Whites, any one of color, Yankees etc.  From our view, the "great" State of Tennesse is doing it's best to either force PWA's to move elswhere for medical attention, or to go ahead an just die (hell, it is cheaper, isn't it?).

We're glad we got the f___ out of there, and I looked for a long time for where we live, and investigated the medical accesses as well.  It's funny, the Ryan White dentists up here double/triple glove, wear full-face plastic masks and are hard to get an app't with.  A "regular" dentist here wears just the one glove, no mask and do their job.  They are extremely puzzled by how their peers treat PWA's in the South.

Things really suck down there, and I kind of don't blame Dan for going off the deep end (although he should NOT have used you guys like he did), hell, I think aidsmeds would be a little overcome by how things are down there.

Offline Joe K

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Re: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2006, 11:53:15 AM »
How sad that such an event is found to have been a deception, but it will not change the caring responses that come from these forums and even though it was a false alarm, we were far from had.  Many people knew what was going on, yet they supported Dan, hoping that he was finally getting the help he needs.  The fact that he lied to this forum, in such a fashion, only reinforces his desperate pleas for help.  

We're here if he needs us and we will be there the next time that ANY member on this forum needs us.

There is a vast difference between anger and hatred and while the anger may linger, hatred will never take root.  Nothing will ever change the power of this community, because even when our compassion is met with deception and some members are rightfully hurt, it still won't change our reaction to the next plea for help.

This group could never do any less and that, my friends, is true power.

Offline The Canuck

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Re: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2006, 12:24:34 PM »
I'm still a bit stunned by all this but Joe stated perfectly what I think about the whole situation and totally agree with that.

Regards,

The Canuck

Offline Christine

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Re: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2006, 12:31:31 PM »
Thanks Andy for posting this.

I am not mad at Dan, I hurt for him. I pray that he chooses to get the help that he needs. I wish I could say that I don't relate to the lows that he is feeling now, but I do. Sometimes they are overwhelming, and can start to break the spirit inside.

Be well Dan, and please go and get some help and needed guidance.

Christine
Poz since '93. Currently on Procrit, Azithromax, Pentamidine, Valcyte, Levothyroxine, Zoloft, Epzicom, Prezista, Viread, Norvir, and GS-9137 study drug. As needed: Trazodone, Atavan, Diflucan, Zofran, Hydrocodone, Octreotide

5/30/07 t-cells 9; vl 275,000

Offline kcmetroman

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Re: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2006, 12:43:06 PM »
I for one cannot deny that I am pissed at him for the emotional duress he put us all through.  I know he needs help, but like I posted before, how many times do we fall for it?  Everybody here comes from some type of background of emotional turmoil.  That's why we are here.  I try to take someone at face value always.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2006, 12:56:55 PM by kcmetroman »

Offline Trish

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Re: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2006, 12:51:28 PM »
It is clear that Dan has issues and he needs to resolve them with professional help.  We have done our best, the rest is up to him and there is nothing more that we can do for him.

Although I feel hurt & angry at Dan for the moment, I'm more dismayed that someone would go to such lengths as Dan has  -- for whatever reasons (like, attention or a cry for help.)  What Dan has done will keep me on my toes should he decide to return... but I will never dismiss a suicide attempt, whether or not it is real.  Anyone who mentions that they want to take their own life is serious stuff, and the way that people reached out to Dan these past 2 days just goes to show how much we care for others and will go the distance to help them.

I just hope Dan gets the help he so desperately needs.
"People grow through experience if they meet life honestly and courageously. This is how character is buit."  Eleanor Roosevelt

Offline angels4kelly

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Re: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2006, 12:57:30 PM »
SOUNDS LIKE THE BEST FOR US ALL
MOVING ON! THANKS, ANDY 8)
PEACE AND LOVE TO EVERYONE,
KELLY
POSITIVE SINCE-10/1990
CD4-610
CD4%-29.3
VL-UNDETECTABLE
VIREAD,VIRACEPT, EPZICOM

MOST RECENT...
10/9/2006
CD4's-714
CD4%-30%
VL-Undetectable
DIAGNOSES POSITIVE 10/90
SAME MEDS, VIREAD, VIRAMUNE, EPZICOM.

SHOOT FOR THE MOON! YOU MAY MISS,
BUT YOU'LL LAND IN THE STARS :)

Knowing others is intelligence;
knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength;
mastering yourself is true power.
 
Failure is not in falling down,
but the staying down

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2006, 12:59:21 PM »
I think the reaction of this group was spot-on.

And to be fair, actions always have consequences.

If someone is going to threaten suicide, then s/he should be prepared for whatever mobilization this incredible group of caring people can muster.

We don't go very gently into the night, do we? :)

I am angry at Dan. And I will be angry for a while, I think. and past that, I won't trust him for even longer. I'm all human like that. But like Joe said, anger is not hatred. I don't for a moment think that anything needs to change in this forum as the result of the incident.

While I do hope that Dan gets the help he needs.. I also see that this forum IS the kind of help, the kind of true community, that can never be underestimated or over valued.

Peter Staley oughtta be proud of himself :)


"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Alain

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Re: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2006, 01:01:16 PM »
.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2006, 08:18:38 PM by cowandalehouse »

Offline purpledragonfly

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Re: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2006, 01:05:31 PM »
I am not mad or angry at Dan for this, he reached out the only way he knew how. He came to us for help. I understand that he did it the wrong way, but when you are that depresed you are not thinking clearly. Dan knew we would react that way and he got the reaction he wanted. Dan needs help and i hope and pray that he gets it.
Do i think Dan should stay away or us to ignore him? no, i think we all sould be there for him and each other. Isn't that what this forum is about? helping each other and loveing each other no matter what?
Dan i hope you come back, and i hope you get the help you need.Yes i am upset that you lied, but i still love you like a brother of this family here and i will pray for you in hopes you do get the help you need.
I think the other night showed everyone just how much these forums mean to everyone and how much we mean to each other.
I love each and everyone of you more than i can say.

Love Wendy

Offline Ann

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Re: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2006, 01:20:07 PM »
Just so ya'll know? 

/snip/

The west part of TN., is still very "backward", and the entire area has many kinds of discriminations as well (not only at PWA's).  I think the word I'm looking for is "polarized".  They don't like Blacks, Whites, any one of color, Yankees etc.  From our view, the "great" State of Tennesse is doing it's best to either force PWA's to move elswhere for medical attention, or to go ahead an just die (hell, it is cheaper, isn't it?).

/snip/

 hell, I think aidsmeds would be a little overcome by how things are down there.


Clarke,

I couldn't help but wonder about what sort of help might actually be available for Dan, considering where he lives. I've been having visions of him being treated roughly by the police and mental health care professionals - treated that way because he is a gay man with aids on top of the stigma surrounding mental health - and I was hoping it wasn't true. Your post confirmed for me the very real chance that Dan is being badly let down by his local authorities.

I hope everyone takes this into consideration. It is so very easy for us to demand he gets the help he needs - but that help might be very difficult for Dan to come by. I hope he is able to find a guardian angel somewhere within his local health care system who will help him - with respect and simple human kindness. We all deserve that, do we not? But we all know full well that isn't always what's on offer.

The response to this situation as well as the aftermath has been exemplary. I hope everyone will continue to be supportive of Dan rather than derogatory, as he needs our kindness right now, not our wrath. I don't feel anger over what Dan did, only profoundly sad.

I'm proud though too - proud to be a part of such a compassionate and caring family.

Ann

PS... sometimes being kind means saying nothing.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2006, 01:24:09 PM by Ann »
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Mouse

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Re: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2006, 01:46:47 PM »
I stayed out of this the entire time because I suspected something like this the moment someone said that they saw him in the thread hours later.

I don't know Dan, so I really can't say what he was thinking when he decided to do this, but I can imagine that anyone that threatens suicide without actually meaning to go through with it is looking for some confirmation that there are people out there that care about them and ARE willing to go to big lengths to make sure that they're okay. And he found that out. Maybe that's a good thing.

What I'm most afraid of is someone will post looking for help and people will doubt them when someone really needs it.

So I just hope no one changes and Dan is able to find some closure, I guess, knowing that there is a group of people out there that are looking out for him and care about him enough to make the fuss that they did.

I think sometimes words feel inadequate and the only way to get people to try and understand how you feel is by taking some sort of action. By threatening suicide I think he was trying to prove out desperate he really felt, even if he never intended to go through with it, or felt like just talking about how he felt wouldn't be enough or that people would not take him seriously enough. The fact remains that either way it went about happening, he DIDN'T go through with it, and that's a good thing regardless.

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2006, 01:47:00 PM »
As a born and summer-bred West Tennessean I think Clarke paints a picture a little more bleak than it is. Jackson is not an isolated, sleepy, little country town. In fact it is one of the fastest growing cities in TN. It has first-rate medical facilities ( yours truly drew his first breath in Madison General) several colleges, and guess what...a gay bar. It is a traditional conservative town...but Clarke makes it sound like something out of Deliverance. Like just about everywhere these days social services take a back seat. However, Jackson is just one short hour from Memphis where more is available. There is help available if one chooses to use it. I hope Dan decides to, and I will help him anyway I can.

Peace,
Hal


Offline lydgate

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Re: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2006, 01:52:29 PM »
Pretty much everything I wanted to say has been said, by Andy, Joe (in this thread as well as in "A Personal Reflection"), Clarke, Ann and others; so I won't repeat their eloquence. Tough tough situation; at times, both before and after the facts were made clear, it seemed/seems like a no-win situation.

John mentioned the fable, "The Boy Who Cried Wolf." The story doesn't have a happy ending; in one version, the boy's sheep all die, in a more grim version, the boy himself is eaten.

One continuing concern. Sometimes, after the person who makes the suicide threat is revealed to be faking it (the attempt, not the misery) -- the whole world knows now that you're not serious! that you've pulled this shit before! that this is, besides a cry of help, lying and manipulation! -- that person will actually carry out the threat for real. Just to prove the people who called him a liar wrong. Added to the existing depression is the shame at having been "found out." Dan, if you're reading this, don't fall for that shame and guilt and "proving everyone wrong" crap. If at all possible, come back here, sooner rather than later; don't sever ties.

Jay
Her finely-touched spirit had still its fine issues, though they were not widely visible. Her full nature, like that river of which Cyrus broke the strength, spent itself in channels which had no great name on the earth. But the effect of her being on those around her was incalculably diffusive: for the growing good of the world is partly dependent on unhistoric acts; and that things are not so ill with you and me as they might have been, is half owing to the number who lived faithfully a hidden life, and rest in unvisited tombs.

George Eliot, Middlemarch, final paragraph

Offline krakerjm

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Re: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2006, 02:12:50 PM »
I remember a young gal form England that did this same thing a few years back, but she had supposedly died and had a number of members highly upset.  It was a total ruse, she was obiviously posting saying it was a friend of hers.  The girl had major problems becides being a durg addict and a toddler(son) whom she eventually lost custody of cause she shot him up with drugs to keep him quiet; she had serious problems.  It's so sad what a disturbed persons will do for attention and pray on the emotions of others.
GWM, 63, PN w/footdrop
"I swear there ain't no heaven, pray ther ain't no hell"

Offline joemutt

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Re: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2006, 12:50:58 AM »

 sometimes being kind means saying nothing.

[/quote]

Offline DanielMark

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Re: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2006, 04:21:43 AM »
Condemnation has a way of coming back at us.

I have no idea what happened, or who was involved, so I'll just say that kindness costs nothing.

Daniel
MEDS: REYATAZ & KIVEXA (SINCE AUG 2008)

MAY 2000 LAB RESULTS: CD4 678
VL STILL UNDETECTABLE

DIAGNOSED IN 1988

Offline heartforyou

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Re: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2006, 05:00:17 AM »
Quote
The fact remains that either way it went about happening, he DIDN'T go through with it, and that's a good thing regardless.

Mouse, you are such a clever,sensitive boy.

My firend Magda had no Forum to turn to, no family like this, who would forgive her, after the anger had gone.
She only heard her own voice, and  no one else heard the whispers of despair.

I am glad Dan is alive. A second suicide within days is the last thing I could bare.

Hermie
Diagnosed in 1987 and still kicking
Viread, Kivexa (Epzicom),Viramune once daily

Happiness is the freedom of breathing fresh air every day.

Offline Jeffreyj

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Re: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2006, 07:02:12 AM »
If anything, this entire drama just shows to me that this site is so worth coming to. There are so many people that care. The good people far out weigh the bad. I thank Dan for making me realize this.
 I'll keep on coming and try to be helpful to everyone, and hopefully get help when I need it. As Daniel Mark so smartly stated, being nice cost nothing. No harm no foul, no blood, no ambulance, Thank God!!!
Positive since 1985

Offline Peter Staley

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Re: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2006, 10:11:39 AM »
Peter Staley oughtta be proud of himself :)

Thanks, Jonathan!  I am very proud of what these forums have become, but I can't take much of the credit -- Andy, Tim and Ann really run this part of the site, and deserve the lion's share of the credit.  Even then, they'd be twiddling their thumbs if there weren't the huge cast of regulars who make these forums the family we can be proud of.

I was blown away by Andy's beautiful words above -- he really is the heart & soul of these forums.

Peter

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2006, 10:57:48 AM »
Of everyone here Hal, Peter, Mikey (tnboy), Skeebo and Jonathan should be remembered as the heroes.

MtD
(Who salutes the five of you)

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2006, 11:42:03 AM »
I'm a mental health counselor and my job is to speak to people on the telephone who are in crisis and to assess people who present to the emergency room or Behavioral Health Center. I work with situations like Dan's every day. I think what people in the forum tried to do for Dan was great and an appropriate response. Two things I would like to mention: First, people who truly want to kill themselves normally don't tell people they are going to do it, so don't completely freak out. Second is that you have to take any threat of suicide seriously and contact authorities. When people makes these threats they are usually crying out for help.

Offline jordan

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Re: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« Reply #29 on: July 30, 2006, 12:19:49 PM »


I have to admit I was stunned when I first read the post from Dan regarding his attempted suicide.  My first thoughts were "what can I do to help" and "how can it get so bad that you can't reach out for help somewhere or with somebody?"

As GSOgymrat points, out I do believe that all threats must be taken seriously.  It's unfortunate, because a trust as been violated between Dan and forum members.

I remember reading some of the responses as the drama unfolded and what stuck out was the remarks a few forum members made regarding the state of calm of Dan's father - in the end that proved right...that Dan wasn't in any danger...otherwise his father probably wouldn't have been so 'calm'.

I'm not sure if this is one hunder percent correct, but I was told that suicide is a selfish act. 

At the end of the day, the important point to remember is that Dan is okay and that Dan is human like the rest of us.  He had a bad day and made a poor choice.  If he's truly seeking help then with the support of his family, friends, and forum members he can bounce back and squeeze every juicy bit out of life  :)  Dan, hang in there, people really do care about you.


PS:

Here's one of my favorite songs from Todd Agnew:




Unchanging One


I looked for love in every single situation
For something, someone
That would last a lifetime, a love that never dies
And I find

(Chorus:)
You know when I wake, when I rise, when I pray,
when I curse You and You love me the same
And You know when I stumble and fall, and You're there through it all
The only unchanging one

I looked for faith on the edge of my room
No fear, daddy's here
Still I struggle to trust You with the rest of my life
When I could just fly

(Chorus)

I looked for God...

(Chorus)

You know my inmost being
You know my deepest scars
You know my darkest secrets
You know and You love and You love

« Last Edit: July 30, 2006, 01:00:15 PM by jordan »
If you think your lonely now, wait until tonight.

Offline lydgate

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Re: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« Reply #30 on: July 30, 2006, 12:44:09 PM »
Well, suicide is an enormously complex subject, and I'm not in favor of labelling it "selfish" or any one thing. Speaking of it in the abstract for too long, one begins to lose sight of the palpable suffering underpinning it; and generalizing about it beyond a point, one can forget from time to time that suicide is about individuals, and that each individual is ultimately sui generis. (I've certainly been guilty, in different contexts, of both of these infractions.)

Two books on understanding suicide, read some years ago, and which I "enjoyed" (though that's hardly the right word): A. Alvararez, The Savage God and Kay Redfield Jamison, Night Falls Fast.

Jay
Her finely-touched spirit had still its fine issues, though they were not widely visible. Her full nature, like that river of which Cyrus broke the strength, spent itself in channels which had no great name on the earth. But the effect of her being on those around her was incalculably diffusive: for the growing good of the world is partly dependent on unhistoric acts; and that things are not so ill with you and me as they might have been, is half owing to the number who lived faithfully a hidden life, and rest in unvisited tombs.

George Eliot, Middlemarch, final paragraph

Offline Mouse

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  • Om nom nom.
Re: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« Reply #31 on: July 30, 2006, 02:41:17 PM »
I just wanted to say that the person commiting suicide is NOT selfish, but the act of suicide is. I can understand feeling as if there is absolutely nowhere to turn, or that anywhere that you could turn will not understand, will treat you poorly, won't take you seriously or might make it worse.

And, alright, it can be seen as if the person is selfish because of the pain they are causing everyone by killing themselves, but what sort of pain does it take to kill yourself? In the end, that person is still gone, and the people around them are still alive. They still have a chance to accomplish things, find happiness, etc. The person that died - can't. The people that loved them may not ever fully recover, or understand, but at least they have the oppourtunity to. =/.

That's just what I think. And I think calling a person that is thinking of committing suicide 'selfish' is kind of not really helping, you know.

Offline manchesteruk

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Re: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« Reply #32 on: July 30, 2006, 03:18:15 PM »
Theres a wise head on those young shoulders Jaser!  I was going to keep out of this thread everyone has pretty much covered what I wanted to say.  I just hope that Dan can find some happiness everyone deserves that i'm not angry with him for what he did I just saw it as a desperate cry for help and I hope he's getting that now.
Diagnosed 11/05

"Life is too important to be taken seriously" Oscar Wilde

Offline clarke

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Re: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« Reply #33 on: July 30, 2006, 04:47:36 PM »
Yeh Hal, Memphis is "only" about an hour away.  Thing is, many of the HIV+ people I knew there had little or unreliable transportation. If they made it to a meeting or something, a ride had to be arranged (that diasppeared when HBC closed down).  Many of them live miles from Jackson.  For those of you who might be curious, look at a TN. map.  West TN. is the whole area west of the TN. River, bordering Mississippi, Missouri and Kentucky.  Many HIV+ people have very few resources to get into Jackson for a glimmer of services (DHS has extremely little patience for thos who are HIV+ or have AIDS),much less getting to Memphis.  And a drive into Memphis is a drive to heart failure.  It is one of the worst cities to drive into, and one of the easiest to get lost in.  I know this as a "fact", being an ex-long-haul trucker who drove into most of the major cities in the continental U.S.A.

Jackson is very fast growing, in as much as many homes being built (very upper-middle class) and businesses trying to get a foothold there.  The thinking there is still very backward or else very narrow-minded. And I know there's a "Gay" bar (The Other Side) just on the outskirts of Jackson. The place isn't quite like "Deliverance", but the city as a whole is very close-minded about many things, most of all HIV/AIDS.

Let me submit one of many examples I could offer of much of the city's populations (much less West TN.) thinking.  My daughter works at Red Lobster.  While waiting on a couple, another waved her over to them.  They wanted her to serve them.  She asked was there something wrong with the waiter they had.  "Yes, he's one of "them", and we don't wish him to serve our food to us".  "Him" being a Gay male.  Oh, he ended eventually quitting, as customer after customer kept asking for other waiters/waitresses.

There is extremely little medical/mental help there (I've run into many mental help people who think pills are the answer to a PWA's anxieties and stuff).  For many people there, if you have this disease, you deserve it.

Offline tnboy

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Re: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« Reply #34 on: July 30, 2006, 05:43:31 PM »
Hal, you are exactly right that Jackson is not exactly a small town. It is no Memphis but you are right it is growing fast.

 On the other hand Clarke is right as well.

    I Do live in a small town called Halls,TN with a population of a little over 2,000 people. Jackson is my service area which is about an hours drive from where I live.

     For reasons that would take too long to explain, I am one of those people that does not have transportation and have a difficult time even getting to doctor appointments. I don't get much family support because, again as Clarke said, my family is among those that are not educated very well about the virus and do not care to learn. These are my problems and I am the only one that can fix them but I just wanted to share that Clarke is right about the situation some of us are in.

I don't mean any disrespect to what either of you said, " I'm just saying".  (thanks JK)

 Edited to also share this: Just a couple years ago the word all over my county was to not eat at the McDonald's in Ripley, which is about 12 miles south of my town, because a guy was working there that had Aids. Yeah, we are one of those backward areas.

   I know there are others as well and we are not alone in this kind of stigma
« Last Edit: July 30, 2006, 05:57:31 PM by tnboy »

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« Reply #35 on: July 30, 2006, 05:45:11 PM »
Clarke you can insert any name of any town for anecdotal evidence of lack of social services for the sick, poor, and needy. You can get gay-bashed and heckled in NYC, DC, and any where in between.

The point I was trying to make is if you really want it, there are services available. They may not be picture perfect...but they are there. It might be something as simple as a local A.A. meeting or as involved as reading a map and making your way to Memphis.

When I was speaking about this I was being case-specific. Dan has health coverage, a car, and a thorough working knowledge of how to navigate to, and in Memphis. I am willing to help in any way I can, and I think that is the important fact you failed to mention.

Like many towns in the good ol' USA Jackson has it's faults and some not so nice, ignorant, people. It also has plenty of wonderful and kind folk who would give you the shirt off their back. How do I know? Because I am related to them.

I'm sorry I get a little sensitive when people bash the place where I was born...and most likely will be buried.

I repeat what Andy said, "it is time to put this behind us and move on."

Peace,
Hal

p.s. Tnboy I know how difficult it is to access services in the country and I appreciate how difficult it is for you. I should have made it clear that I was talking about Dan's particular situation. I've got peeps in Crockett Mills, Bells, Gadsden...I know how they be. Take care, Dan's lucky to have you.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2006, 05:53:45 PM by Dachshund »

Offline tnboy

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Re: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« Reply #36 on: July 30, 2006, 06:04:14 PM »
Thanks Hal,

    I promise, I did not take it personal.  I was just sharing my feelings that you were" actually" both right.
  The subject just hit home for me..

  You are definitely cool with me Man.. ;D

Offline Lis

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Re: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« Reply #37 on: July 30, 2006, 06:20:37 PM »
sorry for the hijack....
Clark... i live in rural Nebraska... i have to have my husband drive me 1.5 hours to pick up meds once monthly, as well as numerous doc appts.. there are no support groups, ADAP is WHACK..  etc... the point is... i dont feel sorry for myself... a person has to want to live their life... accept who and where they are, and if where they are doest work... then shit MOVE! the problem with that though is no matter where you go.. there you are...  spare the Pius poor me attitude.. I'm on disability, and i STILL feel i have options... why?  because i am willing to try!!

enough of this for me!!!!

lisbeth...
poz 1986....

Offline Morton Salt

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Re: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« Reply #38 on: July 30, 2006, 10:21:24 PM »
What an interesting way to get your 15 minutes of fame.

~Morton

Dan J.

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Re: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« Reply #39 on: July 31, 2006, 02:35:00 PM »
This is my last post on these forums.

I know that it was Steve who joined the forum sent Andy a PM and lied to him about the events of the past week. So all of you are going to take the word of a person that has harmed me in more ways than any of you can imagine over the past 16 months. Sure I have issues and I am getting the help that I need to address them.  I have an appointment with my therapist this week.I know I hurt people on this board. I hurt members of my own family with the actions I did.  Things just go so heavy for me that I lost all control of my actions and emotions. I apologize to everyone here. I appreciate the actions of  Hal, Mike, John and others have shown me, but at the same time I am hurt that you all would so quickly turn your back on me. Hal, my father called your home number & told you I was going to the hospital. You could of at least said something to that fact. I don't wiosh anyone here any ill will. I hope you all have a great time in Montreal. You deserve it. If I were to go I wouldn't plan on causing more drama. I'm too embarassed to go now. I feel even more isolated and alone now more than ever.

All the best to everyone here & I hope you have the time of your life in Montreal.

Dan

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« Reply #40 on: July 31, 2006, 03:02:13 PM »
Dan read reply #72 in your thread "what I have just done." Dan it appears you appreciate nothing. You continue to blame everyone but yourself and assume no responsibilty  for your actions. How dare you intimate no one cares...read all the posts again Dan, and then tell us no one cares. Make sure you read number 72 Dan where I inform the group that you had been admitted to the hospital. Respecting your privacy I posted that I would let you fill in the blanks if and when you wanted. That choice is yours  and I will say no more on the subject.

I am glad you are seeking help. I wash my hands of this charade, and you.

« Last Edit: July 31, 2006, 03:43:20 PM by Dachshund »

Offline blondbeauty

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Re: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« Reply #41 on: July 31, 2006, 03:16:21 PM »
Dan, I think you have very good friends here in this forums that really care about you. I was following the thread and was amazed by all they did for you. You still donīt realize it but you are very lucky. Maybe you spend to much time at home thinking about your own problems. Doing that makes problems look bigger than what they really are and you can easily loose the sense of reality and of what is going on in the outside world.
With a little help, you would feel much better and realize there is many people that care about you. You have to stop feeling sorry for yourself and do something about it. You have been dealing with this for 20 years so you are a strong person. But you need to socialize and be in contact with people every day, feeling useful, because you are useful.
You are going to hate me now. And you might be right becasue you didnīt ask me for my opinion. But I donīt care. Go out, find something to do, see the sun shine.
The best thing you could do in the near future is go to Montreal but it is up to you.
I am glad people in this forums were able to "save your life".

GO OUT! RIDE YOUR BIKE!

[attachment deleted by admin]
« Last Edit: July 31, 2006, 03:29:58 PM by blondbeauty »
The only member in these forums approved by WINBA: World International Nail and Beauty Association.
Epstein Barr +; CMV +; Toxoplasmosis +; HIV-1 +.
Counts when starting treatment:
V.L.:80.200 copies. CD4: 25%=503
Started Sustiva-Truvada 14/August/2006
Last V.L.count (Oct 2013): Undetectable
Last CD4 count (OCT 2013): 52%= 933

Offline david25luvit

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Re: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« Reply #42 on: July 31, 2006, 03:36:50 PM »
I too have read all the post here and believe it is now time to move on...........
Those who acted and participated in the attempt to assist Dan are to be commended.
We as a forum have not been diminished in any way because of this episode...
If anything we have been reminded of the kindness and the generosity of the human heart
and its fragility....

now let's hike up our skirts and step over this mud puddle!
In Memory of
Raymond David McRae III
Nov. 25, 1972- Oct. 15, 2004
I miss him terribly..........

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Aftermath of Dan's What Have I Done thread and moving on
« Reply #43 on: July 31, 2006, 04:59:53 PM »
Dan,

How information came to us is irrelevant. Instead of getting caught up in that kind of resentment and (mis)interpretation how about getting on with your life in general and here in specific.

I don't get where you're seeing the situation as "people turning their backs on you." The evidence that I see is overwhelmingly that people have been very understanding about what happened.

If you're feeling more isolated now Dan, the way I see is that is an isolation you are creating. It is not based on the actions or responses from members. As for being "too embarassed" to go to Montreal now, get over yourself.

So you did what you did. Why can't you just be embarrassed and live through that? You are being way more unaccepting of yourself than anyone here.

If you don't go to Montreal, you need to know that's your own unfortunate choice and you should take responsibility for it. No one here has by word or deed indicated they would not want you to be a part of that event.

 
Andy Velez

 


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