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Author Topic: Ignorance in Personals Ads  (Read 17695 times)

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Offline Buckmark

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Ignorance in Personals Ads
« on: August 28, 2008, 01:27:47 PM »
Folks,

While perusing personal ads online, I came across the follow line in someone's profile that really showed his ignorance (and I think animosity) towards people with HIV.  It really chaps my hide, even though I know I won't be able to change some stranger's mind.  So I figured I'd post it here.

I'M HIV- (( If you are positive I hope you have enough respect for your fellow man to tell him before you go bare backing the entire state! ))

Besides the obvious ignorance, barebacking the entire state would be quite a feat, especially since this is Texas.   ;)    Seriously, I can't believe someone think that HIV+ folks are barebacking like rabbits and infecting the entire state. 

Anyone else care to share lines from personals ads they have run across, which demonstrate an ignorance of or animostiry towards HIV+ folks.  I'm sure there must be some other gems out there, and I thought it might be interesting to share them.

Regards,

Henry

"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things:
     One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell.
     The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love."
- Butch Hancock, Musician, The Flatlanders

Offline atlq

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2008, 01:37:58 PM »
Henry,

The one I never understand is some variation of ..."Be D/D (Drug/Disease) free....."

Who is this disease free human being? Shouldn't some studies be happening involving this person?
« Last Edit: August 28, 2008, 01:45:45 PM by atlq »
“Keep up the good work....   And God bless you.”
  --  Sarah Palin, to members of the Alaskan Independence Party, 2008

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2008, 01:45:01 PM »
You ought to ask the guy which counties in the state are acceptable. Also, ask him if he barebacks, and how often gets tested. People who rely on the disclosure of strsngers are people who sing in the war zones. Not a matter of if, but when.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Oceanbeach

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2008, 02:14:58 PM »
Hey Henry,

I heard in 1994, from AIDS Project Los Angeles that 50% all gay men living in metropolitan areas are HIV+ whether they know it or not.

I heard in 2004, from San Francisco AIDS Foundation that 50% of all gay men living in metropolitan areas are HIV+, whether they know it or not.

Sometimes, I like to play with numbers and on a few dull days have pulled random groups from metropolitan areas in the US and found over 90% of these profiles are claiming to be HIV-.  Please be advised, Gay.com does not conduct background checks on their member profiles.  ;D  Have the best day
Michael   

Offline Buckmark

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2008, 03:29:21 PM »
Atlq -- Indeed, that's a good variant I see often in personals ads:  DDF/UB2.  Which is really a code word for being negative.  Unless of course they are truly looking for someone who is truly free of all diseases, in which you are right that such a person should be the subject of intense medical research. 

Jk -- Indeed, I think what bugs me here is what I perceive as this guy's sense of entitlement to a world free from HIV+ people, presumably so he can abdicate all responsibility for his health and prevention.  Either that or he just doesn't want HIV+ people around (wouldn't it be convenient for him if we all just went away).  Perhaps he think that positive folks should be celibate for the rest of their lives.   >:(

Michael -- It must just be that an overwhelming majority of gay.com users are negative.  ::)

Regards,

Henry
"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things:
     One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell.
     The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love."
- Butch Hancock, Musician, The Flatlanders

Offline sparks

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2008, 03:36:19 PM »
i see thats stuff all the time chaps my hide
IM a 17 yr survivor my t-cells have always been 900 or above znd my viral load remains undetectable,, ive known i was positive since i was 20

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2008, 04:31:33 PM »
The vast majority of people are not those with whom you would have a terrific evening. Isn't it great to know the douchebags upfront, rather than spend fifteen bucks on a caramel lattitino and an hour of your life?

I imagine its people like that, when they seroconvert (and if an ultimatum on a sex board is their screening criteria, it is WHEN not IF) they will be the first screaming about the stigma. I have zero empathy for those people. You reap what you sow in life.

And mean people suck.

I have to agree with Hannibal Lector. Actually on several points. Not the least of which is, intentional rudeness is an unforgiveable crime.

What has HIV taught me? avoid mean people. Gravitate towards nice people. Be happy.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Ann

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2008, 04:44:49 PM »
I imagine its people like that, when they seroconvert (and if an ultimatum on a sex board is their screening criteria, it is WHEN not IF) they will be the first screaming about the stigma.

Unfortunately I've found that to be true all to often. People who were hiv prejudiced before diagnosis always seem to be the very same people who freak out the most about the stigma after diagnosis. I guess they know first hand from the other side of the coin. They're afraid of people who think like them.

Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline tash08

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2008, 07:32:36 PM »
Hell,

An individual is responsible for his own actions. And if one chooses to bareback, they should take the responsibility.  All action=Consequence.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2008, 07:34:52 PM by tash08 »
01/04/06-HIV-
03/09/06-HIV+
05/07-Atripla
04/01/10 CD4-681, VL-UD
07/10/10 CD4-450, VL-UD
10/10/10 CD4-473, VL-UD
01/21/11 cd4-522, VL-UD
05/02/11 CD4-638, VL-UD <20 copies Hell yeah!
08/3/12 CD4-806, VL-UD

Offline sparks

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2008, 07:45:50 AM »
yeah but have you noticed hows its always the other guys faught not just hiv but in general people like to blame others for the problems they create
IM a 17 yr survivor my t-cells have always been 900 or above znd my viral load remains undetectable,, ive known i was positive since i was 20

Offline red_Dragon888

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2008, 05:05:51 PM »
Fear of HIV comes in many forms and it comes with the good, the bad, the ugly and the beautiful.  I am not surprised and unfortunately it is no surprised. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I3ba3lnFHik

“Neither look forward where there is doubt nor backward where there is regret. Look inward and ask not if there is anything o

Offline rick21007

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2008, 05:31:58 PM »
Ignorance and stupidity are the deadliest of communicable diseases.  One would be prudent to wear a condom on his head.

Rick

Offline madbrain

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2008, 07:47:05 PM »
I could literally write a book about all the poz rejection I have seen trying to meet people on gay.com, adam4adam, craigslist and even in person at bathhouses. I just deleted my accounts on the first two today, and I have been a member since gay.com started.

Being the sex addict guy that I am, in an open relationship, and my bf being not nearly as horny unfortunately, I try to hook up nearly every day. OK, make that every day. I always disclose my status before meeting, usually in profiles, sometimes in ads, sometimes after email contact.

My success rate varies widely, usually between 2 and 5 hookups a month. And out of that, only about 2 admitted poz guys in two years. And of course zero before infection. Yup, the infection rate is really low, isn't it ? I am not against serosorting or anything, but the poz guys are definitely hiding in a pretty deep closet so how is one supposed to find them ?

I just looked on craigslist. In the whole SF bay area, 9766 m4m ads - 138 only containing the word "poz" (many as part of "poz-friendly"). So that's about 1% if you trust them. The rate in the general population is 0.3% but we know it's higher among gay men, and definitely much higher in SF. I think 10% would not be overstated in SF. So, yes, many are lying or simply omitting the fact to get sex. I don't know if they are barebacking or not.

It's fair to say that the stigma is alive and well. I'm not the oldest, stupidest, fattest, or ugliest guy around by any means. But I have to say that having the virus is the deal-breaker with about 90% of prospects - about a dozen rejections a day. If I kept all the rejection emails and instant messages, I would really have something. Last week one guy on a4a sent me hate mail basically saying that I shouldn't be having sex at all with anyone since my profile stated i was poz, then blocked me so I couldn't even respond to this idiocy. It doesn't matter that I tell them that I always want to play with condom only, that I won't do anything unprotected, not even oral, that I have a low viral load and am moderately infectious, that even if a condom breaks, they can use PEP. No one is listening. They just think they are safer with one of the so-called "neg" guys. I don't know how they will learn. I guess there is only one way, when they seroconvert.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2008, 07:49:08 PM by madbrain »

Offline denb45

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2008, 08:12:23 PM »
Folks,

While perusing personal ads online, I came across the follow line in someone's profile that really showed his ignorance (and I think animosity) towards people with HIV.  It really chaps my hide, even though I know I won't be able to change some stranger's mind.  So I figured I'd post it here.

I'M HIV- (( If you are positive I hope you have enough respect for your fellow man to tell him before you go bare backing the entire state! ))

Besides the obvious ignorance, barebacking the entire state would be quite a feat, especially since this is Texas.   ;)    Seriously, I can't believe someone think that HIV+ folks are barebacking like rabbits and infecting the entire state. 

Anyone else care to share lines from personals ads they have run across, which demonstrate an ignorance of or animostiry towards HIV+ folks.  I'm sure there must be some other gems out there, and I thought it might be interesting to share them.

Regards,

Henry



I assume that EVERYONE is HIV+ and that EVERYONE has STD's wheater They say otherwise, I guees, I'm just that way, I always disclose ( if I'm having SEX) but If I'm not what is really the point, I had a guy  that wanted to come over and play, and wanted me to stay in the other room far, far, away form him while he played with my HIV- Lover, I guees he thought that if I looked at him he'd get AIDS.........LOL! but the reality of this is .....HE NEVER CAME OVER, my NEG otherhalf, thought he was an ASS-HOLE and didn't want ANYTHING to do with him, for even saying such a thing about me....... ???.........I have to agree with Ann on this Topic  ;D Ann that is SO TRUE, it aint even funny.......
« Last Edit: September 03, 2008, 08:15:27 PM by denb45 »
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline next2u

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2008, 03:08:39 AM »
henry,

that dude is a complete asswipe (luv that word).

i'm def not ready to deal with rejection based solely on my hiv status. strangely, some of the guys who have hit on me (and a couple who didn't list their statuses) got all hung up on me being poz. id rather read the d/d free headline alerting me to the asswipes rather than finding out after investing any time into them.

when fucking around in the real world, it's a whole different beast -- but i guess that's another thread.

madbrain - luv your post (like most of them). on my a4a my status is up front. when i first created my profile i got hit on like flies to shit. now that the profile is a bit older i don't get as much action. i definitely serosort on a4a, i only actively pursue guys who don't list their status, state they don't know or who are poz. the vast majority of men who hit on me are negative. i assume the same is true for you.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2008, 03:11:02 AM by next2u »
midapr07 - seroconversion
sept07 - tested poz
oct07 cd4 1013; vl 13,900; cd4% 41
feb08 cd4  694;  vl 16,160; cd4% 50.1
may08 cd4 546; vl 91,480; cd4% 32
aug08 cd4 576; vl 48,190; cd4% 40.7
dec08 cd4 559; vl 63,020; cd4% 29.4
feb09 cd4 464; vl 11,000; cd4% 26
may09 cd4 544; vl 29,710; cd4% 27.2
oct09 cd4 ...; vl 23,350; cd4% 31.6
mar10 cd4 408; vl 59,050; cd4% 31.4
aug10 cd4 328; vl 80,000; cd4% 19.3 STARTED ATRIPLA
oct10 cd4 423; vl 410 ;); cd4% 30.2
jun11 cd4 439; vl <20 ;); cd4% 33.8 <-Undetectable!
mar12 cd4 695; vl ud; cd4% 38.6
jan13 cd4 738; vl ud; cd4% 36.8
aug13 cd4 930; vl ud; cd4% 44.3
jan14 cd4 813; vl ud; cd4% 42.8
may14 cd4 783; vl *; cd4%43.5

Offline komnaes

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2008, 05:16:24 AM »
I have stopped using gay.com and the lots of it entirely... just really pointless.

Actually I have found it offensive in other ways long time ago, especially when I went traveling back to US or Europe - it's just no fun when you see an attractive photo, and the profile says "no Asians". I remember one time I was in London some years ago, opened a profile to see that "no Asians" line, moved on but then the guy must have seen my "track" (i.e. users can see who have clicked on their profiles) and wrote me to say not to bother him! He was way ahead of Bush in the whole pre-emptive thing.

Some sites seem to bring out the worst in us, and gay.com seems to be one of those.
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2008, 08:39:37 AM »
I just looked on craigslist. In the whole SF bay area, 9766 m4m ads - 138 only containing the word "poz" (many as part of "poz-friendly"). So that's about 1% if you trust them. The rate in the general population is 0.3% but we know it's higher among gay men, and definitely much higher in SF. I think 10% would not be overstated in SF. So, yes, many are lying or simply omitting the fact to get sex. I don't know if they are barebacking or not.

I'm sure there is a lot of rejection for being HIV+ but just because someone doesn't put HIV+ in a personal ad doesn't mean they are lying about it. If I was looking for a partner I'm not sure I would put it in an ad because I would like to have people meet me face-to-face rather than pass just because of that one thing. I suppose if it is just a sex hookup saying it in the ad would be more expedient.

It is funny because before I acquired HIV I was much more worried about catching herpes, syphilis, gonorrhea or crabs. I knew HIV was relatively hard to get and how to protect myself but getting herpes or crabs just from contact... yikes.

Offline aztecan

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2008, 10:40:30 AM »
It is funny because before I acquired HIV I was much more worried about catching herpes, syphilis, gonorrhea or crabs. I knew HIV was relatively hard to get and how to protect myself but getting herpes or crabs just from contact... yikes.

Don't forget syphilis. Syphilis is also a contact sport.

Reading this makes me glad I am over 50 and don't give a damn about dating any longer.

HUGS,

Mark
"May your life preach more loudly than your lips."
~ William Ellery Channing (Unitarian Minister)

Offline komnaes

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2008, 11:42:02 AM »
Reading this makes me glad I am over 50 and don't give a damn about dating any longer.

I am 38 and I have more or less given up.. finding sex is hard enough!!!!
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline dixieman

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2008, 11:56:56 AM »
I get a hoot at reading the ads on pozpersonals... just look at other poz folks on how they discriminate against their own fellow poz ... the list is overwhelmiong for some folks? so I guess people are people... and ignorance is not just inherent on personal sites but, in general on all... read some of the likes etc... old farts wanting to date someone 20-30 but, their 50 plus... its called get a life... their preferences astound me... or their good at relationships because theyve been in LTR's not just one but, numerous ones... right? Henry your a sweetie... be glad your not meeting these folks... sincerely, John

Offline madbrain

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2008, 07:28:26 PM »
next2u,

madbrain - luv your post (like most of them). on my a4a my status is up front. when i first created my profile i got hit on like flies to shit. now that the profile is a bit older i don't get as much action. i definitely serosort on a4a, i only actively pursue guys who don't list their status, state they don't know or who are poz. the vast majority of men who hit on me are negative. i assume the same is true for you.

Thanks for the kind words :)

Yes, I get hit on mostly by guys who are "negative", or at least claim to be, and I don't try to serosort because almost nobody puts their HIV status in their a4a profile in my area. Heck, most are too much in the closet to put a face picture in their profile, so that would essentially reduce the pool to about 3 guys, even though the city of San Jose alone has one million people (40% than San Francisco). It's amazing how attitudes differ just 50 miles south of San Francisco. If I lived north I would get a lot more ass, that's for sure. But that's a 2hr drive back and forth, plus about one hour for stressful parking in SF. I may be crazy, but that's a bit too much time spent for a quickie for me.

Offline madbrain

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2008, 07:37:32 PM »
komnaes,

I have stopped using gay.com and the lots of it entirely... just really pointless.

Actually I have found it offensive in other ways long time ago, especially when I went traveling back to US or Europe - it's just no fun when you see an attractive photo, and the profile says "no Asians". I remember one time I was in London some years ago, opened a profile to see that "no Asians" line, moved on but then the guy must have seen my "track" (i.e. users can see who have clicked on their profiles) and wrote me to say not to bother him! He was way ahead of Bush in the whole pre-emptive thing.

Some sites seem to bring out the worst in us, and gay.com seems to be one of those.

Well, the truth is that we all have preferences and there will always be some discrimination by definition. Hooking up is not a right. For instance, I love asian guys (hint) and if you pretended to be asian to hook up with me, and then turned out to be something else, I would not appreciate the joke and would show you the door.

What's different about the STD/HIV+ status is that it's essentially unverifiable. Even with a very recent test, there is an incubation period for all STDs during which they are undetectable. This is especially true for HIV where you pretty much have to abstain for 3 months and repeat the test before you can trust the result. And of course who is going to be able to check that for casual sex ?

Offline madbrain

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2008, 07:48:07 PM »
I'm sure there is a lot of rejection for being HIV+ but just because someone doesn't put HIV+ in a personal ad doesn't mean they are lying about it. If I was looking for a partner I'm not sure I would put it in an ad because I would like to have people meet me face-to-face rather than pass just because of that one thing. I suppose if it is just a sex hookup saying it in the ad would be more expedient.

Well, the m4m ads on craigslist are pretty much all sex hookups. The few other ones are noise that is essentially lost in the rest.

Quote
It is funny because before I acquired HIV I was much more worried about catching herpes, syphilis, gonorrhea or crabs. I knew HIV was relatively hard to get and how to protect myself but getting herpes or crabs just from contact... yikes.

Well, the last 3 you cite are at least curable , depending on how quick you catch them.
The herpes doesn't necessarily even cause symptoms. I was never checked for it and just asked my doc a few months ago. Sure enough I tested positive for both HSV1 and HSV2. I hear over 70% of everybody has HSV1. I have no idea how long I have had those 2 bugs, but I don't think it's ever caused me any problem, at least not that I know.

gonorrhea is bad, but treatable. I caught it in january, along with my 4th bout of chlamydia. I'm guessing that I caught them through oral sex, since that was the only sex act that I was doing unprotected with my hookups, just the same thing I have always done, including when I caught HIV. Of course I keep getting told no one has ever been proven to have gotten HIV that way. And I have not either, I only have a very strong suspicion given my history.

So I have decided to stop oral sex altogether and see how many STDs I keep getting. Assuming I still manage to find hookups who will bottom safely for me and not do any oral .

Offline madbrain

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2008, 07:54:20 PM »
I assume that EVERYONE is HIV+ and that EVERYONE has STD's wheater They say otherwise, I guees, I'm just that way, I always disclose ( if I'm having SEX) but If I'm not what is really the point, I had a guy  that wanted to come over and play, and wanted me to stay in the other room far, far, away form him while he played with my HIV- Lover, I guees he thought that if I looked at him he'd get AIDS.........LOL! but the reality of this is .....HE NEVER CAME OVER, my NEG otherhalf, thought he was an ASS-HOLE and didn't want ANYTHING to do with him, for even saying such a thing about me....... ???.........I have to agree with Ann on this Topic  ;D Ann that is SO TRUE, it aint even funny.......

You know, I always assumed that too and always played safe with my hookups, except for oral sex. I still caught chlamydia 4 times, gonorrhea once, and HIV. It wasn't much of a surprise for the chlamydia/gonorrhea, but the HIV sure shocked me, and that's an understatement.

I hope the PrEP tests succeed so neggies might stop being so afraid of sex with us pozzies :).

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2008, 08:07:38 PM »
You know, I always assumed that too and always played safe with my hookups, except for oral sex. I still caught chlamydia 4 times, gonorrhea once, and HIV. It wasn't much of a surprise for the chlamydia/gonorrhea, but the HIV sure shocked me, and that's an understatement.

I hope the PrEP tests succeed so neggies might stop being so afraid of sex with us pozzies :).


In other threads you've admitted to having unprotected anal sex. You may believe you became infected through oral sex, but you can't be sure. You know it only takes one time, you've said so yourself. I could look up the threads, but I can't be bothered.

Call it what you will but a half a dozen STD's doesn't sound safe to me, especially if one is convinced you can catch da AIDS through a blow job.

Offline denb45

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2008, 08:13:50 PM »
I have stopped using gay.com and the lots of it entirely... just really pointless.

Actually I have found it offensive in other ways long time ago, especially when I went traveling back to US or Europe - it's just no fun when you see an attractive photo, and the profile says "no Asians". I remember one time I was in London some years ago, opened a profile to see that "no Asians" line, moved on but then the guy must have seen my "track" (i.e. users can see who have clicked on their profiles) and wrote me to say not to bother him! He was way ahead of Bush in the whole pre-emptive thing.

Some sites seem to bring out the worst in us, and gay.com seems to be one of those.

Oh That's nothing.........I've seen this in Ads before...NO ASIANS, NO BLACKS, NO LATINOS, NO NATIVE AMERICANS, NO MEDDLEASTERNS, and last but not least NO AIDS  ??? I know we all have chioces, but when I saw this ad ,and it read all that, I was SHOCKED to say the least  ???
the poor guy, I sure hope he finds what is looking for, after I read it, but, if he ends up dying ALONE, I sure won't shed any tears for that asshole  ;D
« Last Edit: September 04, 2008, 08:18:31 PM by denb45 »
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline madbrain

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2008, 08:19:49 PM »
In other threads you've admitted to having unprotected anal sex. You may believe you became infected through oral sex, but you can't be sure. You know it only takes one time, you've said so yourself. I could look up the threads, but I can't be bothered.

Call it what you will but a half a dozen STD's doesn't sound safe to me, especially if one is convinced you can catch da AIDS through a blow job.

Yeah, from 2002 to early 2006 I was monogamous with my ex and had unprotected anal with him.  And he claims to be still neg. And in 2006 I met my current bf and had unprotected anal with him, after we both tested neg (and I have his test result in writing).

I don't have formal proof, but I do have a very strong belief, that I didn't catch it from either of these 2, which were the only ones that I bb'ed with, over 99% of the time as a top. I have my ex's word that he has never had sex with anyone other than me, and my current bf's word that he did not have any other partner after we met, and I have no reason not to trust him. And I do know I never bb'ed with any one else. I don't do drugs and I would just know if I had bb'ed with anyone else.

That leaves a large number of guys that I only did unprotected oral with, the fact that I have always had bad gums, and oral is my best guess about how I caught HIV and all the other STDs that I ever got.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2008, 08:22:32 PM by madbrain »

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2008, 08:24:44 PM »
I have my ex's word that he has never had sex with anyone other than me, and my current bf's word that he did not have any other partner after we met

Yep, the check's in the mail.

Offline madbrain

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #28 on: September 04, 2008, 08:25:24 PM »
Yeah, from 2002 to early 2006 I was monogamous with my ex and had unprotected anal with him.  And he claims to be still neg. And in 2006 I met my current bf and had unprotected anal with him, after we both tested neg (and I have his test result in writing).

I don't have formal proof, but I do have a very strong belief, that I didn't catch it from either of these 2, which were the only ones that I bb'ed with, over 99% of the time as a top. I have my ex's word that he has never had sex with anyone other than me, and my current bf's word that he did not have any other partner after we met, and I have no reason not to trust him. And I do know I never bb'ed with any one else. I don't do drugs and I would just know if I had bb'ed with anyone else.

That leaves a large number of guys that I only did unprotected oral with, the fact that I have always had bad gums, and oral is my best guess about how I caught HIV and all the other STDs that I ever got. As I said, I can't be sure, but it is my best guess that I got HIV that way. I know it sounds implausible to many here, but to my HIV doctor it does not, he does believe that I could have acquired it that way.

Offline madbrain

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #29 on: September 04, 2008, 08:45:56 PM »
I have my ex's word that he has never had sex with anyone other than me, and my current bf's word that he did not have any other partner after we met

Yep, the check's in the mail.

Well regarding the ex, we broke up on 3/6/2006 and I had an HIV- test on 6/23/2006, over 3 months later. I would think that would rule him out. Except that I had some illness in April 2006 that looks very much like a seroconversion illness.

And the current bf, well, I just don't know if he is lying, but what I do know is that he tested neg in april 2006, and poz in november 2006, and with 13% CD4 meaning he had AIDS, and we had the same genotype.

But I'm sure you know better than me how I got HIV.

Offline BT65

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #30 on: September 04, 2008, 09:24:51 PM »
You know, I always assumed that too and always played safe with my hookups, except for oral sex. I still caught chlamydia 4 times, gonorrhea once, and HIV. It wasn't much of a surprise for the chlamydia/gonorrhea, but the HIV sure shocked me, and that's an understatement.

How does that saying go?  "You can fool some of the people all the time, all of the people some of the time, but not all the people all of the time.
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline mpls_apple

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #31 on: September 04, 2008, 09:54:42 PM »
yes, there are lots of ignorant people out there, online personal ads are no exception

If people are as to be so bold as to be smashing people with hiv/aids in their personal ads it's a clear sign of what moral character and lack of an empathic parter they would be.  Respect their wishes and move on!
dreams can be deceiving, like faces are to hearts.

Offline madbrain

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #32 on: September 04, 2008, 10:08:09 PM »
How does that saying go?  "You can fool some of the people all the time, all of the people some of the time, but not all the people all of the time.

I don't know who is trying to fool who here. I don't even see the relevance of your comment. I have told nothing but the truth on that matter. You are free to draw your own different conclusions from the facts that I posted. Mine are that unprotected oral sex led to my infections with chlamydia, gonorrhea - risks I was aware of, and willing to take, and possibly HIV, which I didn't think oral sex was much of a risk for, and wouldn't have done if I thought it could be one of the few in the statistics who gets it that way.

Offline madbrain

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #33 on: September 04, 2008, 10:16:44 PM »
aztecan,

Don't forget syphilis. Syphilis is also a contact sport.

Reading this makes me glad I am over 50 and don't give a damn about dating any longer.

HUGS,

Mark


At least I dodged that one . Last year I met this cute guy. We shared the same birthday, just 10 years apart. He was turning 21 and me 31. We had some fun (again safe, except for oral). He told me that he had never been checked for any STD. But he had barebacked before for several guys. I took him to the free clinic later that week. Fortunately he was HIV-, but he had syphilis.
I never tested poz for syph, but my doc told me and my bf to get a preventive shot of antibiotics in the butt.

This young cutie also had to tell his GF about it. She had to get the butt shot too. That can't have been too easy and must have outed him

Offline denb45

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #34 on: September 04, 2008, 10:18:19 PM »
I don't know who is trying to fool who here. I don't even see the relevance of your comment. I have told nothing but the truth on that matter. You are free to draw your own different conclusions from the facts that I posted. Mine are that unprotected oral sex led to my infections with chlamydia, gonorrhea - risks I was aware of, and willing to take, and possibly HIV, which I didn't think oral sex was much of a risk for, and wouldn't have done if I thought it could be one of the few in the statistics who gets it that way.


You got all of that form just having oral sex  ??? Oh My  ???
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline madbrain

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #35 on: September 04, 2008, 10:27:30 PM »
You got all of that form just having oral sex  ??? Oh My  ???

I know, some of us have all the luck.

Offline keyite

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2008, 05:09:56 AM »
HIV, which I didn't think oral sex was much of a risk for, and wouldn't have done if I thought it could be one of the few in the statistics who gets it that way.

Yes, I got caught out too - it sucks, quite literally.

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #37 on: September 05, 2008, 07:25:36 AM »
I'm sorry, but what a bunch of walking contradictions. You keep getting treated for STD's, think you got HIV through oral sex, but by your own definition practice safe sex, except for oral. Which is how you think you became infected. So by your own, (and I use this term loosely) standards, you and your mate are putting people at risk for infection. You believe people don't lie except for the guy that exposed you and your "swinging" boyfriend to syphilis.

I'm with Mark on this one.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2008, 08:00:52 AM by Dachshund »

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #38 on: September 05, 2008, 07:47:28 AM »
gonorrhea is bad, but treatable.

Let's not forget antibiotic-resistant gonorrhea.
http://www.cdc.gov/std/gonorrhea/arg/

Also community-associated MRSA, while not an STD, is more common among gay men.
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dhqp/ar_mrsa_ca.html

There are just all kinds of nasties about.


Offline mudman8

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #39 on: September 05, 2008, 04:14:40 PM »
I contacted one guy online and stated in my profile I was poz and in my message to him.
His comment back:  I don't want to get infected.

I sent him a pretty str8 forward message about personal responsibility and the facts and that if he was still BB with negative guys, some day he was going to turn positive. I don't think he liked it very much.

Ignorance is bliss, until you get infected.

g
Life is analog

Offline madbrain

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #40 on: September 05, 2008, 08:37:27 PM »
I'm sorry, but what a bunch of walking contradictions. You keep getting treated for STD's, think you got HIV through oral sex, but by your own definition practice safe sex, except for oral. Which is how you think you became infected. So by your own, (and I use this term loosely) standards, you and your mate are putting people at risk for infection. You believe people don't lie except for the guy that exposed you and your "swinging" boyfriend to syphilis.

I'm with Mark on this one.

I never said I took anyone at their word at all about their STD status. Can you provide a quote where I said that ? In fact it's quite the contrary. I assumed everyone was poz or had STDs, and relied on condoms to protect me from HIV for anal, the fact that I'm 99% top and it is lower-risk even if condom breaks; and I was willing to take risk of getting other more benign STDs through giving oral (which shouldn't have been that much of a risk in the first place, given that to this day I still haven't ever swallowed a single load; but precum carries HIV too, the way I understand), and I was getting checked very regularly for them (every 2-3 months, since my insurance plan is nice enough to have no copay for lab tests) to catch them early when I became highly sexually active as I did in 2006 after a 4 years monogamous relationship ended. In fact I often didn't even ask my hookups about STD status, even before my HIV diagnosis, because I thought the answer would be pointless ! People are known to lie about their status to get ass. And I never ask now.

I believe that I may have become infected with HIV from giving oral sex due to precum on my bad gums, which were probably bleeding from brushing shortly before, as I like to be clean everywhere including my mouth before I hookup. I now know it's a stupid thing to do and put me at higher risk for HIV, but I didn't know that then.

As far as I know, I couldn't have gotten HIV from receiving oral and nobody else can. So when I give oral, I don't put them at risk for given them my HIV.  But I do put myself at risk for getting other STDs, and possibly other HIV strains. I may have put some people at risk for HIV when receiving oral. But since my HIV diagnosis I always ask them how their oral health is before I let them. I have never even cared much for oral sex, except as foreplay for something better. I can't say that I will miss it much. And I won't miss getting STDs.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #41 on: September 05, 2008, 09:01:51 PM »
*

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"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline madbrain

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #42 on: September 05, 2008, 09:27:41 PM »
Hi,

I contacted one guy online and stated in my profile I was poz and in my message to him.
His comment back:  I don't want to get infected.

I sent him a pretty str8 forward message about personal responsibility and the facts and that if he was still BB with negative guys, some day he was going to turn positive. I don't think he liked it very much.

Ignorance is bliss, until you get infected.

g

Yep, this is 90% of the responses I get. It's not necessarily that they will bb with someone who tells them they are neg. Maybe not. Perhaps they are only genuinely concerned about condom breakage, or the rare risks of transmissions through oral. But they are not aware of reduced risk from people with undetectable or low viral load, or the backup of PEP if the accident does happen.

And to be honest, PEP is not fun for anybody. I have actually had to go through with PEP once. It was last year. My load made the condom explode inside this tight virgin bi-curious lesbian girls' ass, and she got exposed. I took her to the ER at Kaiser right away, and they saw her immediately before anybody else, and she got the PEP. But the period of uncertainty after that is pretty awful. There was no telling her that I had a low VL, that she got the PEP very quickly and that she was going to be OK.
She took the PEP for the whole month, having to hide her meds from her family, and ended testing HIV- at 3 months from the incident, but she has been too afraid to take another test at 4 months as she is supposed to even though I offered repeatedly to go with her. I had dinner with her recently and I'm sure she is OK, but she is still freaked out about taking one last confirmatory test. It would be much better if there was a PREP that worked and wouldn't require the long 1 month of meds and 4 months wait. Fortunately that has been my only accident so far. But I can certainly understand if one doesn't want to take the chance of having to go through PEP, even if they are aware of its existence. But most people are probably not willing to take that risk even if the accident rate risk is 1% and the PEP works 80% of the time. That's still a 0.2% chance that they may get HIV hooking up with me. Hopefully less due to my relatively low VL.

But of course people who want 0% infection risk just shouldn't be hooking up with anyone at all. Gay men have perhaps a 10% infection rate in some areas like SF. Many of them won't disclose before. And many won't disclose after an accident because they will be sued (one of the first thing the nurse at Kaiser asked the girl - not in front of me - was if I had told her of my status before it happened when I brought her in for the PEP. Which of course I had). So let's assume they won't have the benefit of the PEP at all. That's still 10% infection rate x 1% accident rate = 0.1% infection risk. Not all that different from the 0.2% with me. Of course math doesn't usually help you get ass.
But it might explain why guys in SF are more poz-friendly.

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #43 on: September 06, 2008, 09:13:55 AM »
Wow, that just might be one of the more unappetizing AM posts I've read in quite some time. I hope you acknowledged your long history of STD's while inspecting her gums for periodontal disease. You're quite the romantic.

To all you bi-curious lesbians out there reading, let this be a lesson to you.


Offline madbrain

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #44 on: September 06, 2008, 04:57:20 PM »
Wow, that just might be one of the more unappetizing AM posts I've read in quite some time. I hope you acknowledged your long history of STD's while inspecting her gums for periodontal disease. You're quite the romantic.

To all you bi-curious lesbians out there reading, let this be a lesson to you.



Well Dachshund, here is a free paper bag for you to throw up in.
If we can't discuss sex and hookups in this forum, I wonder where we ever will.

And I never inspected anyone's gums, I am not qualified to do that, I just asked my partners if their gums were healthy and if they bled recently. Yes, it's a strange question, but not that strange if you have previously disclosed your status and somebody still wants to go down on you because they think it's safe like most everybody else does.

And as far as the lesson goes, condom accidents can happen with anyone. They are very rare. IMO that girl was just very unlucky to be the one (and only, so far). It could have happened to a guy as well. Statistically it just happens more than 0% of the time. I don't know if it's 1% or less. So what's the lesson ? That neggies should never have safe sex with a pozzie because the condom might break ? That sounds pretty draconian. I prefer to leave the abstinence programs to the Republicans. And if it works for you, great. But it doesn't work for me.

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #45 on: September 06, 2008, 05:14:14 PM »
Dude, nothing I've posted in this thread was meant for your consumption (let's hope that's one communicable you're able to miss). It's directed at the thousands of worried wells out there. You, I could care less.

My job here is done.

Offline madbrain

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #46 on: September 06, 2008, 06:40:24 PM »
Dude, nothing I've posted in this thread was meant for your consumption (let's hope that's one communicable you're able to miss).

Clearly not, since you addressed me personally repeatedly in your posts.

Quote
You, I could care less. My job here is done.

Good riddance.

Offline komnaes

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #47 on: September 07, 2008, 07:19:01 AM »
Quote
inside this tight virgin bi-curious lesbian girls' ass

Dude, if this bit doesn't sound like something from a porn site I don't know what else..

I guess all we can ask for is a bit of tactfulness when folks discuss sexual situations.

Condom accidents aside, I go along with the line that the risk of getting infected through oral sex is academic, i.e., not a real one. I am not a scientist so I am not in the position to confirm it one way or another - it's just my personal experiences that all the folks who have claimed initially they got it through oral did eventually admit to risky penetrative intercourses, or at least would not rule out condom accidents during penetrative intercourses (which to me still sounded dubious).

The stigma is simply too strong that some health care providers told me that people would rather lie and tell people that they did drugs than admitting to unsafe (especially gay anal) sex.

Can we go back to talk about personal ads...?
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline David_CA

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #48 on: September 07, 2008, 07:08:36 PM »
I had a message from a guy on a male hook-up site today.  He's WAY too young for me (20) but was wanting to hook up with me... 'til I suggested that he inquire as to the 'ask me' statement in my HIV status. 

Him: "hey, well are you poz? or clean?"
Me:  "I'm very clean.  I very much dislike being physically dirty when having sex.  However, I am HIV+"
Me:  "I guess that's kind of a deal breaker, huh?"
Him: "hey it is, i mean i dont hate ya bc of that but its just i would rather not take the risk"
Me:  "I don't blame you.  Please do yourself a BIG favor (one I didn't do well, obviously).  Don't rely on people telling your they're neg.  They might be lying to get laid, haven't gotten tested in a while (and not know they're poz), or be very recently infected.  Just assume that they're HIV+, be safe, and you'll be fine.  Just a FYI, oral sex is very safe, anal isn't without a condom (don't know if you're all that up on your HIV knowledge).  I sure wasn't well informed and found out in March '06 that I was HIV+.  It caught me totally off guard. Also, please don't use the term clean.  It doesn't bother me, but is very offensive to some... so much so they'll lie to you.  Take care of yourself and feel free to chat anytime.
Me:  "hey, well i am not all up on my info and all, so if somebody were to give me a bj would i be able to catch anything like that?? and how do you get it exactly?? we'll def keep in touch, it would be nice to talk to someone"

At this point, I sent him a link to some of the info at POZ.  He's a cute kid; I hope he learns more about HIV and stays negative.  This isn't the first time I've met somebody who's just basically clueless about this virus.  Is it any wonder infection rates are going up?

David


Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
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Offline hotpuppy

  • Member
  • Posts: 555
Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #49 on: September 07, 2008, 07:15:57 PM »
I got tired of the very same nonsense.  It inspired me to post this http://houston.craigslist.org/m4m/800746395.html to craigslist periodically.  I've done it 3 times to date and only gotten 2 hateful/ignorant responses.

I got over 40 "thank you" responses.   That inspired me to start a blog.  My blog lets me blow off steam at the stupidity I see from day to day that just simply amazes me.

The other thing I'm amazed at is how many guys don't read my profile on manhunt or gay.com. I decided early on I would be aggressive with letting people know I'm poz. Like Ann says, some people have an  issue with it and I want it to be their issue not mine.  Where I disagree with Ann, is that I had an issue with it when I was neg.  It drives my understanding of it and so I expect it.  I don't hold it against them.  It's just a fact of life that they can't handle it.  Personally I'd rather know up front that you can't handle dating me than after dating for a few weeks or a few months. 

I think it would be interesting to get involved in speaking, but not sure where to start on that one.  For now I'll just blog and occassionally post to craigslist.  I suspect we will see an uptick in the amount of HIV infection in the gay community.

In particular the anonymous barebacking is just stunning.  ads like : http://houston.craigslist.org/m4m/831157994.html (adult rated ad, beware)

http://houston.craigslist.org/m4m/824563567.html (neg only bb... lol)

anyhow, don't let it get you down.

Btw there is a poz campout in a couple weeks.  It's a statewide Texas thing and great fun if you are interested.

Don't obsess over the wrong things.  Life isn't about your numbers, it isn't about this forum, it isn't about someone's opinion.  It's about getting out there and enjoying it.   I am a person with HIV - not the other way around.

 


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