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Author Topic: Ignorance in Personals Ads  (Read 18135 times)

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Offline Buckmark

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Ignorance in Personals Ads
« on: August 28, 2008, 01:27:47 PM »
Folks,

While perusing personal ads online, I came across the follow line in someone's profile that really showed his ignorance (and I think animosity) towards people with HIV.  It really chaps my hide, even though I know I won't be able to change some stranger's mind.  So I figured I'd post it here.

I'M HIV- (( If you are positive I hope you have enough respect for your fellow man to tell him before you go bare backing the entire state! ))

Besides the obvious ignorance, barebacking the entire state would be quite a feat, especially since this is Texas.   ;)    Seriously, I can't believe someone think that HIV+ folks are barebacking like rabbits and infecting the entire state. 

Anyone else care to share lines from personals ads they have run across, which demonstrate an ignorance of or animostiry towards HIV+ folks.  I'm sure there must be some other gems out there, and I thought it might be interesting to share them.

Regards,

Henry

"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things:
     One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell.
     The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love."
- Butch Hancock, Musician, The Flatlanders

Offline atlq

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2008, 01:37:58 PM »
Henry,

The one I never understand is some variation of ..."Be D/D (Drug/Disease) free....."

Who is this disease free human being? Shouldn't some studies be happening involving this person?
« Last Edit: August 28, 2008, 01:45:45 PM by atlq »
“Keep up the good work....   And God bless you.”
  --  Sarah Palin, to members of the Alaskan Independence Party, 2008

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2008, 01:45:01 PM »
You ought to ask the guy which counties in the state are acceptable. Also, ask him if he barebacks, and how often gets tested. People who rely on the disclosure of strsngers are people who sing in the war zones. Not a matter of if, but when.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Oceanbeach

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2008, 02:14:58 PM »
Hey Henry,

I heard in 1994, from AIDS Project Los Angeles that 50% all gay men living in metropolitan areas are HIV+ whether they know it or not.

I heard in 2004, from San Francisco AIDS Foundation that 50% of all gay men living in metropolitan areas are HIV+, whether they know it or not.

Sometimes, I like to play with numbers and on a few dull days have pulled random groups from metropolitan areas in the US and found over 90% of these profiles are claiming to be HIV-.  Please be advised, Gay.com does not conduct background checks on their member profiles.  ;D  Have the best day
Michael   

Offline Buckmark

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2008, 03:29:21 PM »
Atlq -- Indeed, that's a good variant I see often in personals ads:  DDF/UB2.  Which is really a code word for being negative.  Unless of course they are truly looking for someone who is truly free of all diseases, in which you are right that such a person should be the subject of intense medical research. 

Jk -- Indeed, I think what bugs me here is what I perceive as this guy's sense of entitlement to a world free from HIV+ people, presumably so he can abdicate all responsibility for his health and prevention.  Either that or he just doesn't want HIV+ people around (wouldn't it be convenient for him if we all just went away).  Perhaps he think that positive folks should be celibate for the rest of their lives.   >:(

Michael -- It must just be that an overwhelming majority of gay.com users are negative.  ::)

Regards,

Henry
"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things:
     One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell.
     The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love."
- Butch Hancock, Musician, The Flatlanders

Offline sparks

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2008, 03:36:19 PM »
i see thats stuff all the time chaps my hide
IM a 17 yr survivor my t-cells have always been 900 or above znd my viral load remains undetectable,, ive known i was positive since i was 20

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2008, 04:31:33 PM »
The vast majority of people are not those with whom you would have a terrific evening. Isn't it great to know the douchebags upfront, rather than spend fifteen bucks on a caramel lattitino and an hour of your life?

I imagine its people like that, when they seroconvert (and if an ultimatum on a sex board is their screening criteria, it is WHEN not IF) they will be the first screaming about the stigma. I have zero empathy for those people. You reap what you sow in life.

And mean people suck.

I have to agree with Hannibal Lector. Actually on several points. Not the least of which is, intentional rudeness is an unforgiveable crime.

What has HIV taught me? avoid mean people. Gravitate towards nice people. Be happy.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Ann

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2008, 04:44:49 PM »
I imagine its people like that, when they seroconvert (and if an ultimatum on a sex board is their screening criteria, it is WHEN not IF) they will be the first screaming about the stigma.

Unfortunately I've found that to be true all to often. People who were hiv prejudiced before diagnosis always seem to be the very same people who freak out the most about the stigma after diagnosis. I guess they know first hand from the other side of the coin. They're afraid of people who think like them.

Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline tash08

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2008, 07:32:36 PM »
Hell,

An individual is responsible for his own actions. And if one chooses to bareback, they should take the responsibility.  All action=Consequence.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2008, 07:34:52 PM by tash08 »
01/04/06-HIV-
03/09/06-HIV+
05/07-Atripla
04/01/10 CD4-681, VL-UD
07/10/10 CD4-450, VL-UD
10/10/10 CD4-473, VL-UD
01/21/11 cd4-522, VL-UD
05/02/11 CD4-638, VL-UD <20 copies Hell yeah!
08/3/12 CD4-806, VL-UD

Offline sparks

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2008, 07:45:50 AM »
yeah but have you noticed hows its always the other guys faught not just hiv but in general people like to blame others for the problems they create
IM a 17 yr survivor my t-cells have always been 900 or above znd my viral load remains undetectable,, ive known i was positive since i was 20

Offline red_Dragon888

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2008, 05:05:51 PM »
Fear of HIV comes in many forms and it comes with the good, the bad, the ugly and the beautiful.  I am not surprised and unfortunately it is no surprised. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I3ba3lnFHik

“Neither look forward where there is doubt nor backward where there is regret. Look inward and ask not if there is anything o

Offline rick21007

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2008, 05:31:58 PM »
Ignorance and stupidity are the deadliest of communicable diseases.  One would be prudent to wear a condom on his head.

Rick

Offline madbrain

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2008, 07:47:05 PM »
I could literally write a book about all the poz rejection I have seen trying to meet people on gay.com, adam4adam, craigslist and even in person at bathhouses. I just deleted my accounts on the first two today, and I have been a member since gay.com started.

Being the sex addict guy that I am, in an open relationship, and my bf being not nearly as horny unfortunately, I try to hook up nearly every day. OK, make that every day. I always disclose my status before meeting, usually in profiles, sometimes in ads, sometimes after email contact.

My success rate varies widely, usually between 2 and 5 hookups a month. And out of that, only about 2 admitted poz guys in two years. And of course zero before infection. Yup, the infection rate is really low, isn't it ? I am not against serosorting or anything, but the poz guys are definitely hiding in a pretty deep closet so how is one supposed to find them ?

I just looked on craigslist. In the whole SF bay area, 9766 m4m ads - 138 only containing the word "poz" (many as part of "poz-friendly"). So that's about 1% if you trust them. The rate in the general population is 0.3% but we know it's higher among gay men, and definitely much higher in SF. I think 10% would not be overstated in SF. So, yes, many are lying or simply omitting the fact to get sex. I don't know if they are barebacking or not.

It's fair to say that the stigma is alive and well. I'm not the oldest, stupidest, fattest, or ugliest guy around by any means. But I have to say that having the virus is the deal-breaker with about 90% of prospects - about a dozen rejections a day. If I kept all the rejection emails and instant messages, I would really have something. Last week one guy on a4a sent me hate mail basically saying that I shouldn't be having sex at all with anyone since my profile stated i was poz, then blocked me so I couldn't even respond to this idiocy. It doesn't matter that I tell them that I always want to play with condom only, that I won't do anything unprotected, not even oral, that I have a low viral load and am moderately infectious, that even if a condom breaks, they can use PEP. No one is listening. They just think they are safer with one of the so-called "neg" guys. I don't know how they will learn. I guess there is only one way, when they seroconvert.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2008, 07:49:08 PM by madbrain »

Offline denb45

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2008, 08:12:23 PM »
Folks,

While perusing personal ads online, I came across the follow line in someone's profile that really showed his ignorance (and I think animosity) towards people with HIV.  It really chaps my hide, even though I know I won't be able to change some stranger's mind.  So I figured I'd post it here.

I'M HIV- (( If you are positive I hope you have enough respect for your fellow man to tell him before you go bare backing the entire state! ))

Besides the obvious ignorance, barebacking the entire state would be quite a feat, especially since this is Texas.   ;)    Seriously, I can't believe someone think that HIV+ folks are barebacking like rabbits and infecting the entire state. 

Anyone else care to share lines from personals ads they have run across, which demonstrate an ignorance of or animostiry towards HIV+ folks.  I'm sure there must be some other gems out there, and I thought it might be interesting to share them.

Regards,

Henry



I assume that EVERYONE is HIV+ and that EVERYONE has STD's wheater They say otherwise, I guees, I'm just that way, I always disclose ( if I'm having SEX) but If I'm not what is really the point, I had a guy  that wanted to come over and play, and wanted me to stay in the other room far, far, away form him while he played with my HIV- Lover, I guees he thought that if I looked at him he'd get AIDS.........LOL! but the reality of this is .....HE NEVER CAME OVER, my NEG otherhalf, thought he was an ASS-HOLE and didn't want ANYTHING to do with him, for even saying such a thing about me....... ???.........I have to agree with Ann on this Topic  ;D Ann that is SO TRUE, it aint even funny.......
« Last Edit: September 03, 2008, 08:15:27 PM by denb45 »
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline next2u

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2008, 03:08:39 AM »
henry,

that dude is a complete asswipe (luv that word).

i'm def not ready to deal with rejection based solely on my hiv status. strangely, some of the guys who have hit on me (and a couple who didn't list their statuses) got all hung up on me being poz. id rather read the d/d free headline alerting me to the asswipes rather than finding out after investing any time into them.

when fucking around in the real world, it's a whole different beast -- but i guess that's another thread.

madbrain - luv your post (like most of them). on my a4a my status is up front. when i first created my profile i got hit on like flies to shit. now that the profile is a bit older i don't get as much action. i definitely serosort on a4a, i only actively pursue guys who don't list their status, state they don't know or who are poz. the vast majority of men who hit on me are negative. i assume the same is true for you.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2008, 03:11:02 AM by next2u »
midapr07 - seroconversion
sept07 - tested poz
oct07 cd4 1013; vl 13,900; cd4% 41
feb08 cd4  694;  vl 16,160; cd4% 50.1
may08 cd4 546; vl 91,480; cd4% 32
aug08 cd4 576; vl 48,190; cd4% 40.7
dec08 cd4 559; vl 63,020; cd4% 29.4
feb09 cd4 464; vl 11,000; cd4% 26
may09 cd4 544; vl 29,710; cd4% 27.2
oct09 cd4 ...; vl 23,350; cd4% 31.6
mar10 cd4 408; vl 59,050; cd4% 31.4
aug10 cd4 328; vl 80,000; cd4% 19.3 STARTED ATRIPLA
oct10 cd4 423; vl 410 ;); cd4% 30.2
jun11 cd4 439; vl <20 ;); cd4% 33.8 <-Undetectable!
mar12 cd4 695; vl ud; cd4% 38.6
jan13 cd4 738; vl ud; cd4% 36.8
aug13 cd4 930; vl ud; cd4% 44.3
jan14 cd4 813; vl ud; cd4% 42.8
may14 cd4 783; vl *; cd4%43.5

Offline komnaes

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2008, 05:16:24 AM »
I have stopped using gay.com and the lots of it entirely... just really pointless.

Actually I have found it offensive in other ways long time ago, especially when I went traveling back to US or Europe - it's just no fun when you see an attractive photo, and the profile says "no Asians". I remember one time I was in London some years ago, opened a profile to see that "no Asians" line, moved on but then the guy must have seen my "track" (i.e. users can see who have clicked on their profiles) and wrote me to say not to bother him! He was way ahead of Bush in the whole pre-emptive thing.

Some sites seem to bring out the worst in us, and gay.com seems to be one of those.
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2008, 08:39:37 AM »
I just looked on craigslist. In the whole SF bay area, 9766 m4m ads - 138 only containing the word "poz" (many as part of "poz-friendly"). So that's about 1% if you trust them. The rate in the general population is 0.3% but we know it's higher among gay men, and definitely much higher in SF. I think 10% would not be overstated in SF. So, yes, many are lying or simply omitting the fact to get sex. I don't know if they are barebacking or not.

I'm sure there is a lot of rejection for being HIV+ but just because someone doesn't put HIV+ in a personal ad doesn't mean they are lying about it. If I was looking for a partner I'm not sure I would put it in an ad because I would like to have people meet me face-to-face rather than pass just because of that one thing. I suppose if it is just a sex hookup saying it in the ad would be more expedient.

It is funny because before I acquired HIV I was much more worried about catching herpes, syphilis, gonorrhea or crabs. I knew HIV was relatively hard to get and how to protect myself but getting herpes or crabs just from contact... yikes.

Offline aztecan

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2008, 10:40:30 AM »
It is funny because before I acquired HIV I was much more worried about catching herpes, syphilis, gonorrhea or crabs. I knew HIV was relatively hard to get and how to protect myself but getting herpes or crabs just from contact... yikes.

Don't forget syphilis. Syphilis is also a contact sport.

Reading this makes me glad I am over 50 and don't give a damn about dating any longer.

HUGS,

Mark
"May your life preach more loudly than your lips."
~ William Ellery Channing (Unitarian Minister)

Offline komnaes

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2008, 11:42:02 AM »
Reading this makes me glad I am over 50 and don't give a damn about dating any longer.

I am 38 and I have more or less given up.. finding sex is hard enough!!!!
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline dixieman

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2008, 11:56:56 AM »
I get a hoot at reading the ads on pozpersonals... just look at other poz folks on how they discriminate against their own fellow poz ... the list is overwhelmiong for some folks? so I guess people are people... and ignorance is not just inherent on personal sites but, in general on all... read some of the likes etc... old farts wanting to date someone 20-30 but, their 50 plus... its called get a life... their preferences astound me... or their good at relationships because theyve been in LTR's not just one but, numerous ones... right? Henry your a sweetie... be glad your not meeting these folks... sincerely, John

Offline madbrain

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2008, 07:28:26 PM »
next2u,

madbrain - luv your post (like most of them). on my a4a my status is up front. when i first created my profile i got hit on like flies to shit. now that the profile is a bit older i don't get as much action. i definitely serosort on a4a, i only actively pursue guys who don't list their status, state they don't know or who are poz. the vast majority of men who hit on me are negative. i assume the same is true for you.

Thanks for the kind words :)

Yes, I get hit on mostly by guys who are "negative", or at least claim to be, and I don't try to serosort because almost nobody puts their HIV status in their a4a profile in my area. Heck, most are too much in the closet to put a face picture in their profile, so that would essentially reduce the pool to about 3 guys, even though the city of San Jose alone has one million people (40% than San Francisco). It's amazing how attitudes differ just 50 miles south of San Francisco. If I lived north I would get a lot more ass, that's for sure. But that's a 2hr drive back and forth, plus about one hour for stressful parking in SF. I may be crazy, but that's a bit too much time spent for a quickie for me.

Offline madbrain

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2008, 07:37:32 PM »
komnaes,

I have stopped using gay.com and the lots of it entirely... just really pointless.

Actually I have found it offensive in other ways long time ago, especially when I went traveling back to US or Europe - it's just no fun when you see an attractive photo, and the profile says "no Asians". I remember one time I was in London some years ago, opened a profile to see that "no Asians" line, moved on but then the guy must have seen my "track" (i.e. users can see who have clicked on their profiles) and wrote me to say not to bother him! He was way ahead of Bush in the whole pre-emptive thing.

Some sites seem to bring out the worst in us, and gay.com seems to be one of those.

Well, the truth is that we all have preferences and there will always be some discrimination by definition. Hooking up is not a right. For instance, I love asian guys (hint) and if you pretended to be asian to hook up with me, and then turned out to be something else, I would not appreciate the joke and would show you the door.

What's different about the STD/HIV+ status is that it's essentially unverifiable. Even with a very recent test, there is an incubation period for all STDs during which they are undetectable. This is especially true for HIV where you pretty much have to abstain for 3 months and repeat the test before you can trust the result. And of course who is going to be able to check that for casual sex ?

Offline madbrain

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2008, 07:48:07 PM »
I'm sure there is a lot of rejection for being HIV+ but just because someone doesn't put HIV+ in a personal ad doesn't mean they are lying about it. If I was looking for a partner I'm not sure I would put it in an ad because I would like to have people meet me face-to-face rather than pass just because of that one thing. I suppose if it is just a sex hookup saying it in the ad would be more expedient.

Well, the m4m ads on craigslist are pretty much all sex hookups. The few other ones are noise that is essentially lost in the rest.

Quote
It is funny because before I acquired HIV I was much more worried about catching herpes, syphilis, gonorrhea or crabs. I knew HIV was relatively hard to get and how to protect myself but getting herpes or crabs just from contact... yikes.

Well, the last 3 you cite are at least curable , depending on how quick you catch them.
The herpes doesn't necessarily even cause symptoms. I was never checked for it and just asked my doc a few months ago. Sure enough I tested positive for both HSV1 and HSV2. I hear over 70% of everybody has HSV1. I have no idea how long I have had those 2 bugs, but I don't think it's ever caused me any problem, at least not that I know.

gonorrhea is bad, but treatable. I caught it in january, along with my 4th bout of chlamydia. I'm guessing that I caught them through oral sex, since that was the only sex act that I was doing unprotected with my hookups, just the same thing I have always done, including when I caught HIV. Of course I keep getting told no one has ever been proven to have gotten HIV that way. And I have not either, I only have a very strong suspicion given my history.

So I have decided to stop oral sex altogether and see how many STDs I keep getting. Assuming I still manage to find hookups who will bottom safely for me and not do any oral .

Offline madbrain

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2008, 07:54:20 PM »
I assume that EVERYONE is HIV+ and that EVERYONE has STD's wheater They say otherwise, I guees, I'm just that way, I always disclose ( if I'm having SEX) but If I'm not what is really the point, I had a guy  that wanted to come over and play, and wanted me to stay in the other room far, far, away form him while he played with my HIV- Lover, I guees he thought that if I looked at him he'd get AIDS.........LOL! but the reality of this is .....HE NEVER CAME OVER, my NEG otherhalf, thought he was an ASS-HOLE and didn't want ANYTHING to do with him, for even saying such a thing about me....... ???.........I have to agree with Ann on this Topic  ;D Ann that is SO TRUE, it aint even funny.......

You know, I always assumed that too and always played safe with my hookups, except for oral sex. I still caught chlamydia 4 times, gonorrhea once, and HIV. It wasn't much of a surprise for the chlamydia/gonorrhea, but the HIV sure shocked me, and that's an understatement.

I hope the PrEP tests succeed so neggies might stop being so afraid of sex with us pozzies :).

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2008, 08:07:38 PM »
You know, I always assumed that too and always played safe with my hookups, except for oral sex. I still caught chlamydia 4 times, gonorrhea once, and HIV. It wasn't much of a surprise for the chlamydia/gonorrhea, but the HIV sure shocked me, and that's an understatement.

I hope the PrEP tests succeed so neggies might stop being so afraid of sex with us pozzies :).


In other threads you've admitted to having unprotected anal sex. You may believe you became infected through oral sex, but you can't be sure. You know it only takes one time, you've said so yourself. I could look up the threads, but I can't be bothered.

Call it what you will but a half a dozen STD's doesn't sound safe to me, especially if one is convinced you can catch da AIDS through a blow job.

Offline denb45

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2008, 08:13:50 PM »
I have stopped using gay.com and the lots of it entirely... just really pointless.

Actually I have found it offensive in other ways long time ago, especially when I went traveling back to US or Europe - it's just no fun when you see an attractive photo, and the profile says "no Asians". I remember one time I was in London some years ago, opened a profile to see that "no Asians" line, moved on but then the guy must have seen my "track" (i.e. users can see who have clicked on their profiles) and wrote me to say not to bother him! He was way ahead of Bush in the whole pre-emptive thing.

Some sites seem to bring out the worst in us, and gay.com seems to be one of those.

Oh That's nothing.........I've seen this in Ads before...NO ASIANS, NO BLACKS, NO LATINOS, NO NATIVE AMERICANS, NO MEDDLEASTERNS, and last but not least NO AIDS  ??? I know we all have chioces, but when I saw this ad ,and it read all that, I was SHOCKED to say the least  ???
the poor guy, I sure hope he finds what is looking for, after I read it, but, if he ends up dying ALONE, I sure won't shed any tears for that asshole  ;D
« Last Edit: September 04, 2008, 08:18:31 PM by denb45 »
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline madbrain

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2008, 08:19:49 PM »
In other threads you've admitted to having unprotected anal sex. You may believe you became infected through oral sex, but you can't be sure. You know it only takes one time, you've said so yourself. I could look up the threads, but I can't be bothered.

Call it what you will but a half a dozen STD's doesn't sound safe to me, especially if one is convinced you can catch da AIDS through a blow job.

Yeah, from 2002 to early 2006 I was monogamous with my ex and had unprotected anal with him.  And he claims to be still neg. And in 2006 I met my current bf and had unprotected anal with him, after we both tested neg (and I have his test result in writing).

I don't have formal proof, but I do have a very strong belief, that I didn't catch it from either of these 2, which were the only ones that I bb'ed with, over 99% of the time as a top. I have my ex's word that he has never had sex with anyone other than me, and my current bf's word that he did not have any other partner after we met, and I have no reason not to trust him. And I do know I never bb'ed with any one else. I don't do drugs and I would just know if I had bb'ed with anyone else.

That leaves a large number of guys that I only did unprotected oral with, the fact that I have always had bad gums, and oral is my best guess about how I caught HIV and all the other STDs that I ever got.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2008, 08:22:32 PM by madbrain »

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2008, 08:24:44 PM »
I have my ex's word that he has never had sex with anyone other than me, and my current bf's word that he did not have any other partner after we met

Yep, the check's in the mail.

Offline madbrain

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #28 on: September 04, 2008, 08:25:24 PM »
Yeah, from 2002 to early 2006 I was monogamous with my ex and had unprotected anal with him.  And he claims to be still neg. And in 2006 I met my current bf and had unprotected anal with him, after we both tested neg (and I have his test result in writing).

I don't have formal proof, but I do have a very strong belief, that I didn't catch it from either of these 2, which were the only ones that I bb'ed with, over 99% of the time as a top. I have my ex's word that he has never had sex with anyone other than me, and my current bf's word that he did not have any other partner after we met, and I have no reason not to trust him. And I do know I never bb'ed with any one else. I don't do drugs and I would just know if I had bb'ed with anyone else.

That leaves a large number of guys that I only did unprotected oral with, the fact that I have always had bad gums, and oral is my best guess about how I caught HIV and all the other STDs that I ever got. As I said, I can't be sure, but it is my best guess that I got HIV that way. I know it sounds implausible to many here, but to my HIV doctor it does not, he does believe that I could have acquired it that way.

Offline madbrain

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #29 on: September 04, 2008, 08:45:56 PM »
I have my ex's word that he has never had sex with anyone other than me, and my current bf's word that he did not have any other partner after we met

Yep, the check's in the mail.

Well regarding the ex, we broke up on 3/6/2006 and I had an HIV- test on 6/23/2006, over 3 months later. I would think that would rule him out. Except that I had some illness in April 2006 that looks very much like a seroconversion illness.

And the current bf, well, I just don't know if he is lying, but what I do know is that he tested neg in april 2006, and poz in november 2006, and with 13% CD4 meaning he had AIDS, and we had the same genotype.

But I'm sure you know better than me how I got HIV.

Offline BT65

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #30 on: September 04, 2008, 09:24:51 PM »
You know, I always assumed that too and always played safe with my hookups, except for oral sex. I still caught chlamydia 4 times, gonorrhea once, and HIV. It wasn't much of a surprise for the chlamydia/gonorrhea, but the HIV sure shocked me, and that's an understatement.

How does that saying go?  "You can fool some of the people all the time, all of the people some of the time, but not all the people all of the time.
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline mpls_apple

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #31 on: September 04, 2008, 09:54:42 PM »
yes, there are lots of ignorant people out there, online personal ads are no exception

If people are as to be so bold as to be smashing people with hiv/aids in their personal ads it's a clear sign of what moral character and lack of an empathic parter they would be.  Respect their wishes and move on!
dreams can be deceiving, like faces are to hearts.

Offline madbrain

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #32 on: September 04, 2008, 10:08:09 PM »
How does that saying go?  "You can fool some of the people all the time, all of the people some of the time, but not all the people all of the time.

I don't know who is trying to fool who here. I don't even see the relevance of your comment. I have told nothing but the truth on that matter. You are free to draw your own different conclusions from the facts that I posted. Mine are that unprotected oral sex led to my infections with chlamydia, gonorrhea - risks I was aware of, and willing to take, and possibly HIV, which I didn't think oral sex was much of a risk for, and wouldn't have done if I thought it could be one of the few in the statistics who gets it that way.

Offline madbrain

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #33 on: September 04, 2008, 10:16:44 PM »
aztecan,

Don't forget syphilis. Syphilis is also a contact sport.

Reading this makes me glad I am over 50 and don't give a damn about dating any longer.

HUGS,

Mark


At least I dodged that one . Last year I met this cute guy. We shared the same birthday, just 10 years apart. He was turning 21 and me 31. We had some fun (again safe, except for oral). He told me that he had never been checked for any STD. But he had barebacked before for several guys. I took him to the free clinic later that week. Fortunately he was HIV-, but he had syphilis.
I never tested poz for syph, but my doc told me and my bf to get a preventive shot of antibiotics in the butt.

This young cutie also had to tell his GF about it. She had to get the butt shot too. That can't have been too easy and must have outed him

Offline denb45

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #34 on: September 04, 2008, 10:18:19 PM »
I don't know who is trying to fool who here. I don't even see the relevance of your comment. I have told nothing but the truth on that matter. You are free to draw your own different conclusions from the facts that I posted. Mine are that unprotected oral sex led to my infections with chlamydia, gonorrhea - risks I was aware of, and willing to take, and possibly HIV, which I didn't think oral sex was much of a risk for, and wouldn't have done if I thought it could be one of the few in the statistics who gets it that way.


You got all of that form just having oral sex  ??? Oh My  ???
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline madbrain

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #35 on: September 04, 2008, 10:27:30 PM »
You got all of that form just having oral sex  ??? Oh My  ???

I know, some of us have all the luck.

Offline keyite

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2008, 05:09:56 AM »
HIV, which I didn't think oral sex was much of a risk for, and wouldn't have done if I thought it could be one of the few in the statistics who gets it that way.

Yes, I got caught out too - it sucks, quite literally.

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #37 on: September 05, 2008, 07:25:36 AM »
I'm sorry, but what a bunch of walking contradictions. You keep getting treated for STD's, think you got HIV through oral sex, but by your own definition practice safe sex, except for oral. Which is how you think you became infected. So by your own, (and I use this term loosely) standards, you and your mate are putting people at risk for infection. You believe people don't lie except for the guy that exposed you and your "swinging" boyfriend to syphilis.

I'm with Mark on this one.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2008, 08:00:52 AM by Dachshund »

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #38 on: September 05, 2008, 07:47:28 AM »
gonorrhea is bad, but treatable.

Let's not forget antibiotic-resistant gonorrhea.
http://www.cdc.gov/std/gonorrhea/arg/

Also community-associated MRSA, while not an STD, is more common among gay men.
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dhqp/ar_mrsa_ca.html

There are just all kinds of nasties about.


Offline mudman8

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #39 on: September 05, 2008, 04:14:40 PM »
I contacted one guy online and stated in my profile I was poz and in my message to him.
His comment back:  I don't want to get infected.

I sent him a pretty str8 forward message about personal responsibility and the facts and that if he was still BB with negative guys, some day he was going to turn positive. I don't think he liked it very much.

Ignorance is bliss, until you get infected.

g
Life is analog

Offline madbrain

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #40 on: September 05, 2008, 08:37:27 PM »
I'm sorry, but what a bunch of walking contradictions. You keep getting treated for STD's, think you got HIV through oral sex, but by your own definition practice safe sex, except for oral. Which is how you think you became infected. So by your own, (and I use this term loosely) standards, you and your mate are putting people at risk for infection. You believe people don't lie except for the guy that exposed you and your "swinging" boyfriend to syphilis.

I'm with Mark on this one.

I never said I took anyone at their word at all about their STD status. Can you provide a quote where I said that ? In fact it's quite the contrary. I assumed everyone was poz or had STDs, and relied on condoms to protect me from HIV for anal, the fact that I'm 99% top and it is lower-risk even if condom breaks; and I was willing to take risk of getting other more benign STDs through giving oral (which shouldn't have been that much of a risk in the first place, given that to this day I still haven't ever swallowed a single load; but precum carries HIV too, the way I understand), and I was getting checked very regularly for them (every 2-3 months, since my insurance plan is nice enough to have no copay for lab tests) to catch them early when I became highly sexually active as I did in 2006 after a 4 years monogamous relationship ended. In fact I often didn't even ask my hookups about STD status, even before my HIV diagnosis, because I thought the answer would be pointless ! People are known to lie about their status to get ass. And I never ask now.

I believe that I may have become infected with HIV from giving oral sex due to precum on my bad gums, which were probably bleeding from brushing shortly before, as I like to be clean everywhere including my mouth before I hookup. I now know it's a stupid thing to do and put me at higher risk for HIV, but I didn't know that then.

As far as I know, I couldn't have gotten HIV from receiving oral and nobody else can. So when I give oral, I don't put them at risk for given them my HIV.  But I do put myself at risk for getting other STDs, and possibly other HIV strains. I may have put some people at risk for HIV when receiving oral. But since my HIV diagnosis I always ask them how their oral health is before I let them. I have never even cared much for oral sex, except as foreplay for something better. I can't say that I will miss it much. And I won't miss getting STDs.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #41 on: September 05, 2008, 09:01:51 PM »
*

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"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline madbrain

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #42 on: September 05, 2008, 09:27:41 PM »
Hi,

I contacted one guy online and stated in my profile I was poz and in my message to him.
His comment back:  I don't want to get infected.

I sent him a pretty str8 forward message about personal responsibility and the facts and that if he was still BB with negative guys, some day he was going to turn positive. I don't think he liked it very much.

Ignorance is bliss, until you get infected.

g

Yep, this is 90% of the responses I get. It's not necessarily that they will bb with someone who tells them they are neg. Maybe not. Perhaps they are only genuinely concerned about condom breakage, or the rare risks of transmissions through oral. But they are not aware of reduced risk from people with undetectable or low viral load, or the backup of PEP if the accident does happen.

And to be honest, PEP is not fun for anybody. I have actually had to go through with PEP once. It was last year. My load made the condom explode inside this tight virgin bi-curious lesbian girls' ass, and she got exposed. I took her to the ER at Kaiser right away, and they saw her immediately before anybody else, and she got the PEP. But the period of uncertainty after that is pretty awful. There was no telling her that I had a low VL, that she got the PEP very quickly and that she was going to be OK.
She took the PEP for the whole month, having to hide her meds from her family, and ended testing HIV- at 3 months from the incident, but she has been too afraid to take another test at 4 months as she is supposed to even though I offered repeatedly to go with her. I had dinner with her recently and I'm sure she is OK, but she is still freaked out about taking one last confirmatory test. It would be much better if there was a PREP that worked and wouldn't require the long 1 month of meds and 4 months wait. Fortunately that has been my only accident so far. But I can certainly understand if one doesn't want to take the chance of having to go through PEP, even if they are aware of its existence. But most people are probably not willing to take that risk even if the accident rate risk is 1% and the PEP works 80% of the time. That's still a 0.2% chance that they may get HIV hooking up with me. Hopefully less due to my relatively low VL.

But of course people who want 0% infection risk just shouldn't be hooking up with anyone at all. Gay men have perhaps a 10% infection rate in some areas like SF. Many of them won't disclose before. And many won't disclose after an accident because they will be sued (one of the first thing the nurse at Kaiser asked the girl - not in front of me - was if I had told her of my status before it happened when I brought her in for the PEP. Which of course I had). So let's assume they won't have the benefit of the PEP at all. That's still 10% infection rate x 1% accident rate = 0.1% infection risk. Not all that different from the 0.2% with me. Of course math doesn't usually help you get ass.
But it might explain why guys in SF are more poz-friendly.

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #43 on: September 06, 2008, 09:13:55 AM »
Wow, that just might be one of the more unappetizing AM posts I've read in quite some time. I hope you acknowledged your long history of STD's while inspecting her gums for periodontal disease. You're quite the romantic.

To all you bi-curious lesbians out there reading, let this be a lesson to you.


Offline madbrain

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #44 on: September 06, 2008, 04:57:20 PM »
Wow, that just might be one of the more unappetizing AM posts I've read in quite some time. I hope you acknowledged your long history of STD's while inspecting her gums for periodontal disease. You're quite the romantic.

To all you bi-curious lesbians out there reading, let this be a lesson to you.



Well Dachshund, here is a free paper bag for you to throw up in.
If we can't discuss sex and hookups in this forum, I wonder where we ever will.

And I never inspected anyone's gums, I am not qualified to do that, I just asked my partners if their gums were healthy and if they bled recently. Yes, it's a strange question, but not that strange if you have previously disclosed your status and somebody still wants to go down on you because they think it's safe like most everybody else does.

And as far as the lesson goes, condom accidents can happen with anyone. They are very rare. IMO that girl was just very unlucky to be the one (and only, so far). It could have happened to a guy as well. Statistically it just happens more than 0% of the time. I don't know if it's 1% or less. So what's the lesson ? That neggies should never have safe sex with a pozzie because the condom might break ? That sounds pretty draconian. I prefer to leave the abstinence programs to the Republicans. And if it works for you, great. But it doesn't work for me.

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #45 on: September 06, 2008, 05:14:14 PM »
Dude, nothing I've posted in this thread was meant for your consumption (let's hope that's one communicable you're able to miss). It's directed at the thousands of worried wells out there. You, I could care less.

My job here is done.

Offline madbrain

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #46 on: September 06, 2008, 06:40:24 PM »
Dude, nothing I've posted in this thread was meant for your consumption (let's hope that's one communicable you're able to miss).

Clearly not, since you addressed me personally repeatedly in your posts.

Quote
You, I could care less. My job here is done.

Good riddance.

Offline komnaes

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #47 on: September 07, 2008, 07:19:01 AM »
Quote
inside this tight virgin bi-curious lesbian girls' ass

Dude, if this bit doesn't sound like something from a porn site I don't know what else..

I guess all we can ask for is a bit of tactfulness when folks discuss sexual situations.

Condom accidents aside, I go along with the line that the risk of getting infected through oral sex is academic, i.e., not a real one. I am not a scientist so I am not in the position to confirm it one way or another - it's just my personal experiences that all the folks who have claimed initially they got it through oral did eventually admit to risky penetrative intercourses, or at least would not rule out condom accidents during penetrative intercourses (which to me still sounded dubious).

The stigma is simply too strong that some health care providers told me that people would rather lie and tell people that they did drugs than admitting to unsafe (especially gay anal) sex.

Can we go back to talk about personal ads...?
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline David_CA

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #48 on: September 07, 2008, 07:08:36 PM »
I had a message from a guy on a male hook-up site today.  He's WAY too young for me (20) but was wanting to hook up with me... 'til I suggested that he inquire as to the 'ask me' statement in my HIV status. 

Him: "hey, well are you poz? or clean?"
Me:  "I'm very clean.  I very much dislike being physically dirty when having sex.  However, I am HIV+"
Me:  "I guess that's kind of a deal breaker, huh?"
Him: "hey it is, i mean i dont hate ya bc of that but its just i would rather not take the risk"
Me:  "I don't blame you.  Please do yourself a BIG favor (one I didn't do well, obviously).  Don't rely on people telling your they're neg.  They might be lying to get laid, haven't gotten tested in a while (and not know they're poz), or be very recently infected.  Just assume that they're HIV+, be safe, and you'll be fine.  Just a FYI, oral sex is very safe, anal isn't without a condom (don't know if you're all that up on your HIV knowledge).  I sure wasn't well informed and found out in March '06 that I was HIV+.  It caught me totally off guard. Also, please don't use the term clean.  It doesn't bother me, but is very offensive to some... so much so they'll lie to you.  Take care of yourself and feel free to chat anytime.
Me:  "hey, well i am not all up on my info and all, so if somebody were to give me a bj would i be able to catch anything like that?? and how do you get it exactly?? we'll def keep in touch, it would be nice to talk to someone"

At this point, I sent him a link to some of the info at POZ.  He's a cute kid; I hope he learns more about HIV and stays negative.  This isn't the first time I've met somebody who's just basically clueless about this virus.  Is it any wonder infection rates are going up?

David


Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline hotpuppy

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #49 on: September 07, 2008, 07:15:57 PM »
I got tired of the very same nonsense.  It inspired me to post this http://houston.craigslist.org/m4m/800746395.html to craigslist periodically.  I've done it 3 times to date and only gotten 2 hateful/ignorant responses.

I got over 40 "thank you" responses.   That inspired me to start a blog.  My blog lets me blow off steam at the stupidity I see from day to day that just simply amazes me.

The other thing I'm amazed at is how many guys don't read my profile on manhunt or gay.com. I decided early on I would be aggressive with letting people know I'm poz. Like Ann says, some people have an  issue with it and I want it to be their issue not mine.  Where I disagree with Ann, is that I had an issue with it when I was neg.  It drives my understanding of it and so I expect it.  I don't hold it against them.  It's just a fact of life that they can't handle it.  Personally I'd rather know up front that you can't handle dating me than after dating for a few weeks or a few months. 

I think it would be interesting to get involved in speaking, but not sure where to start on that one.  For now I'll just blog and occassionally post to craigslist.  I suspect we will see an uptick in the amount of HIV infection in the gay community.

In particular the anonymous barebacking is just stunning.  ads like : http://houston.craigslist.org/m4m/831157994.html (adult rated ad, beware)

http://houston.craigslist.org/m4m/824563567.html (neg only bb... lol)

anyhow, don't let it get you down.

Btw there is a poz campout in a couple weeks.  It's a statewide Texas thing and great fun if you are interested.

Don't obsess over the wrong things.  Life isn't about your numbers, it isn't about this forum, it isn't about someone's opinion.  It's about getting out there and enjoying it.   I am a person with HIV - not the other way around.

Offline atlq

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #50 on: September 07, 2008, 09:21:22 PM »
 
 


  It was last year. My load made the condom explode inside this tight virgin bi-curious lesbian girls' ass, and she got exposed.   
 
 

Dear Penthouse Forum...I never thought this would actually happen to me...
“Keep up the good work....   And God bless you.”
  --  Sarah Palin, to members of the Alaskan Independence Party, 2008

Offline komnaes

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #51 on: September 08, 2008, 01:44:56 AM »

Him: "hey, well are you poz? or clean?"


Don't you just have to luv this word "clean". Last time I was asked about my "cleanliness" I told the guy I was totally dirty, like Pigpen..



..wherever I go there's this dust of deadly virus surrounding me..  ;) Of course he didn't get the humor.

And recently this very good friend of mind whom I have come out to called and asked me out for coffee to talk. His problem - he met a friend through Gaydar that he really liked. They dated a bit and finally one night they were making out and ready to, er, move to the next step. And the guy dropped the bomb there - told my buddy he's HIV+.

This friend is in his early 40s, been there and seen all, lost friends to AIDS and has been totally supportive to me and a number of other mutual pozzie friends. Still, he used the word "clean" in ".. only then he told me he wasn't clean". He kept calm, they talked more and he had to abort the plan to have sex. He said he felt a bit gulity, knowing that kissing is of no risk, still he went to the bathroom and rinse his mouth with half a bottle of Listerine...

And he came to me and asked my "expertises" on whether to continue to see the guy or not.. I didn't think so even at the time, there's no way he would see that guy again (or at least with the potential of dating)..
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline David_CA

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #52 on: September 08, 2008, 03:44:39 PM »
In reference to drug tests (and other medical tests), 'clean' means that there are no marks (i.e. checks or whatever) indicating drug use.  The answer is yes or no, not 'yes, he's clean' (no drugs) or 'no, he's dirty' (failed the drug test).  Clean isn't used to reference the individual but merely the individuals test, in this case, HIV test (status).  I've never associated being clean with anything but this and never thought of HIV+ as being dirty.  I think, for the most part, that's a stigma/label we put on ourselves.  Has anybody ever been asked if they were clean or dirty?

David
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline madbrain

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #53 on: September 08, 2008, 07:46:05 PM »
Dude, if this bit doesn't sound like something from a porn site I don't know what else..

I guess all we can ask for is a bit of tactfulness when folks discuss sexual situations.

OK, I'll grant you that description could have been phrased differently.

Quote
Condom accidents aside, I go along with the line that the risk of getting infected through oral sex is academic, i.e., not a real one. I am not a scientist so I am not in the position to confirm it one way or another - it's just my personal experiences that all the folks who have claimed initially they got it through oral did eventually admit to risky penetrative intercourses, or at least would not rule out condom accidents during penetrative intercourses (which to me still sounded dubious).

Well, it's pretty clear from this discussion and many others before on AM that people who claim to have gotten HIV through oral (even hypothetically, as I do) are never believed anyway, and that  the infection is automatically pinned down on partners that did unprotected anal, and it doesn't matter if those partners actually tested HIV negative shortly before the infection, they must still automatically have been the infection source, since they did unprotected anal, and there could not possibly be another explanation. With that kind of attitude, I don't see how science can ever hope to prove or disprove anything.

Quote
The stigma is simply too strong that some health care providers told me that people would rather lie and tell people that they did drugs than admitting to unsafe (especially gay anal) sex.

That may well be true for some patients and their docs, but fortunately it's not universal.

Quote
Can we go back to talk about personal ads...?

Most certainly !

Offline madbrain

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #54 on: September 08, 2008, 08:00:35 PM »
In reference to drug tests (and other medical tests), 'clean' means that there are no marks (i.e. checks or whatever) indicating drug use.  The answer is yes or no, not 'yes, he's clean' (no drugs) or 'no, he's dirty' (failed the drug test).  Clean isn't used to reference the individual but merely the individuals test, in this case, HIV test (status).  I've never associated being clean with anything but this and never thought of HIV+ as being dirty.  I think, for the most part, that's a stigma/label we put on ourselves.  Has anybody ever been asked if they were clean or dirty?

Respond to any cl m4m ad and if you get a response, you will usually be asked eventually, maybe not in the first contact necessarily but soon after. Many ads simply list it.

I didn't know this usage of "clean" about the drug test.
Usually in personals I thought it referred mostly to STDs and HIV.

A few times I joked about it and posted some naughty ads titled "dirty - UB2". Guess how many responses I got ?

Offline NewYorkKat

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #55 on: September 08, 2008, 08:48:35 PM »
I speak for myself: Online hook ups are SO TIRED!!! Oh HUM! I watch X Tube and beat off and that gets the horniness out the way and I go about my day.

No one can be trusted. Sorry, even POZ guys LIE about their status because of fear of rejection. yeah i saw the "DDF HIV NEG UB2" ads but honestly, I would(if i was single now and I have done this before) treat everyone like their poz and avoid any unprotected sex. If you POZ and don;t want to reveal, act like a paranoid fuck and tell your hook up NO BB/RAW or anything Unsafe.

I could be wrong but that's my opinion.

Offline David_CA

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #56 on: September 08, 2008, 09:55:14 PM »
I speak for myself: Online hook ups are SO TIRED!!! Oh HUM! I watch X Tube and beat off and that gets the horniness out the way and I go about my day.

Hmmm... I guess.  I've met some of the most fun guys online.  In fact, I met my husband of 9.5 years on AOL back in the day.  If nothing else, I enjoy chatting.  If I/we get lucky, all the better!
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Miss Philicia

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  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #57 on: September 11, 2008, 10:26:01 PM »
Some of you might be interested in reading this timely article that just went up on poz.com:

source

HIV Status Unknown for Most “Negative” Men Online

Seventeen percent of HIV-positive men who have sex with men (MSM) and nearly three quarters of MSM who’ve never been tested for HIV say they are HIV negative in their online profiles, according to a study published in the September issue of the Journal of Urban Health.

The popularity of sex and dating websites for MSM ballooned quickly during the past decade and a half. Relatively little research, however, has been published on how MSM use the Internet to find sex partners and how it influences communication and choices about safer sex. To investigate the online communication and behavior of MSM, Keith Horvath, PhD, and his colleagues from the University of Minnesota recruited men through banner advertisements on a popular gay sex and dating website, which was not named in the journal article.

The advertisements attracted 15,425 people, of whom 7,547 were screened for eligibility and 2,716 completed a thorough survey. Sixty-one percent of the respondents were younger than 30 and only 12 percent were 40 or older. Twenty-five percent described themselves as Latino, 15 percent as black, 19 percent as Asian and 27 percent as white. Twenty percent lived in small towns or rural areas, 49 percent in medium-sized cities or suburbs, and 31 percent in urban areas. A quarter of the men said they had only one online profile, 20 percent said they had four or more profiles, and 16 percent said they had no online profiles.

Horvath’s team separated the participants into three groups. In the first group, 469 reported having never been tested for HIV. In the second group, 2,110 said they’d been tested and received an HIV-negative diagnosis. The men in the third group, 119 in total, had all tested positive for HIV.

Of the men who’d never been tested for HIV, 72 percent said that all of their online profiles stated their HIV status as negative, while 17 percent of HIV-positive men stated in their online profile that they are HIV negative. Roughly 56 percent of both men who’d never been tested and those who reported being HIV negative said in their online profiles that they only engage in safer sex. This compared to 33 percent of HIV-positive men.

Eleven percent of the men who’d never been tested for HIV reported having unprotected anal sex with partners they met online in the past year, while 13 percent of HIV-negative men and 33 percent of HIV positive men did so. Sexual behavior was statistically similar whether the men met their partners online or offline.

The authors write that for HIV-positive men, “Nondisclosure or misrepresentation of an HIV-positive status may be a consequence of HIV stigma and fear that disclosing one’s HIV-positive status will result in less men being interested in having sex with them.” In addition, the researchers note that the higher percentage of unprotected anal sex among HIV-positive men may be happening most frequently with other HIV-positive men.

Horvath and his team also comment that the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimates that roughly 25 percent of people who are HIV positive do not know their HIV status. That a quarter of the men in this study who’d never been tested claim to be HIV negative in their profiles and that as many as 11 percent of them engage in unprotected anal sex could have a significant impact on HIV transmission trends.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline komnaes

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #58 on: September 11, 2008, 10:50:30 PM »
I can see the point of this survey but it's almost like telling me my mother is a woman ..  ;D

I recently have had some nasty exchanges on a Chinese language gay forum on a topic challenging the local health administration's data. It's a point I have been making for a long time - here they classify modes of transmission into homosexual/bisexual encounter and heterosexual encounter. I have been speaking to a number of activists before and challenged that how could someone get HIV from a "bisexual" encounter. One could only get it from one source that either that person is of the same or the opposite sex..

That's another topic but this discussion quickly turned into folks accusing HIVers still having active sex lives for being irresponsible. But when the table is turned, no one seems to think that it's irresponsible for folks to have actual sex lives but have NEVER been tested for any STDs and still assume that they're "clean", so to speak.

Folks usually have less explicit pictures in Gaydar, but try Dudesnude - what blows my mind is that you see people listing themselves as HIV- and saying that they "ALWAYS" have safe sex would post photos and videos of themselves barebacking..
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #59 on: September 12, 2008, 12:21:20 AM »
what blows my mind is that you see people listing themselves as HIV- and saying that they "ALWAYS" have safe sex would post photos and videos of themselves barebacking..

I know it's inappropriate, but I just had to laugh when I read that. It's like a guy saying he's "top only" as he scrapes ceiling paint from under his toenails.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2008, 12:24:22 AM by GSOgymrat »

Offline komnaes

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #60 on: September 12, 2008, 12:23:50 AM »
I know it's inappropriate, but I just had to laugh when I read that.

It sort of depends on what you're laughing at... ;)

But for you sweetie you can laugh at anything I say...
« Last Edit: September 12, 2008, 12:36:27 PM by komnaes »
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline Finnboy

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #61 on: September 12, 2008, 05:40:59 AM »
The way I look at this is that having sex with an HIV-negative person occasionally messes with my head to the point where any idea of penetrative sex goes right out of the window (read: physical impossibility) - and that is with a monogamous partner of more than six years standing who I trust, who I still find hellishly attractive, who I know is aware of risks and who I may (sometimes) still think I am in love with. If the fear of infecting someone can do that, imagine what the fear of being infected can (and certainly should) do?

Most of these gay 'dating' sites aren't dating sites at all. They are hook-up sites and are about casual sex. I am not knocking casual sex; but you have to look at what people say in that context: uncomplicated animalistic fun that is based purely on physical attraction and getting off as quickly and efficiently as possible.

For me, good / fun sex is about being able to relax; so bearing in mind the tricks that HIV can play with the mind and that there is no such thing as safe sex, then I don't actually see a problem if there are people for whom uncomplicated means sex with someone who isn't HIV-positive.

You can argue that some people could be a little more tactful. If you aren't physically attracted to Asians, gingers or feminine guys: there should be no need to explicitly state that you aren't; because you can generally imply your preference, without causing offence, by listing what you are into. If you try the same approach with HIV, you can guarantee that you will still end up saying something which some people will need perceive as expressing prejudice.

As for the Gaydar guys who claim to be HIV-negative, but who have pictures of themselves barebacking: don't be so quick to judge. Perhaps they are specifically talking about right now, and casual sex, and it is the limitations of the Gaydar classifications which are the problem. I would certainly put 'always' in there, but it clearly hasn't been true in the past and it may not be true in the future; but it would be right now (if I was on there).

Offline Buckmark

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #62 on: September 12, 2008, 06:09:47 PM »
That's another topic but this discussion quickly turned into folks accusing HIVers still having active sex lives for being irresponsible. But when the table is turned, no one seems to think that it's irresponsible for folks to have actual sex lives but have NEVER been tested for any STDs and still assume that they're "clean", so to speak.

Actually, what you've said relates right back to the original reason I started this thread:  the implication by (allegedly) non-HIVers that HIVers having active sex lives are irresponsible, and somehow single-handedly responsible for the epidemic.  I think you're quite right:  when the tables are turned and it's HIV-unaware/unknown folks having active sex lives under the assumption they are "clean", no one thinks that is irresponsible.  It's almost like some non-HIV or HIV-unknown folks feel that it is completely the HIVers responsibility to provide them with a sexual landscape where they can play without any worry, concern, or risk. 

Phooey.

Regards,

Henry
"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things:
     One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell.
     The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love."
- Butch Hancock, Musician, The Flatlanders

Offline madbrain

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #63 on: September 12, 2008, 07:45:48 PM »
Henry,

It's almost like some non-HIV or HIV-unknown folks feel that it is completely the HIVers responsibility to provide them with a sexual landscape where they can play without any worry, concern, or risk. 

It's not almost, it's exactly what they feel like. They forget almost anyone who is HIV+ now was HIV- before at some point. The responsibility is both ways, to be safe and protect yourself if you are HIV-, and to be safe to protect others if you are HIV+.

I hesitated to post the following which came in my mailbox yesterday from a cl contact, but after your post I hesitate no more. It illustrates the point :

"hey, man. if u r positive, for public security, please be kind and dont have sex with hiv-. hope you are good enough and be considerated.
then we would be safe. thank you very much."

This is actually the most polite message I ever got on the topic - if not the most grammatically correct. But if I had to meet only people who say openly they are HIV+, I might as well be a monk. The few ads I see from poz guys mostly say they want BB, and I just don't respond to those.

Offline Bucko

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #64 on: September 12, 2008, 08:27:34 PM »
Am I the only one on AIDSmeds who finds more available pozhole on Manhunt than I could ever hope to satisfy? Folks living in the hinterlands complaining about the dearth of available poz guys have my sympathy.

But New York? San Francisco? Fewer than 1% of the personal ads in San Fucking Frisco claim to be poz? What alternate universe are we talking about here?

Maybe the point is to redirect some of one's madmoney and just pay the $35 for a Mancunt membership. Or maybe instead of hunting for "hawt d00dz" the focus should be on hunting "hawt fux". Sometimes the best sex is with some of the least likely candidates. Or maybe the situation is just so different for bottoms that I simply cannot relate. But down here in the alternate universe of Ft Lauderdale men are just too plentiful to waste one's time among the D&D-Free crowd.

And I gotta say that, even if I have left some encounters with ashes in my mouth, on-line hook-ups are simply the most efficient way of qualifying beaux. All your particulars are written down, easy peasy. When I was in full swing in 2006 I coulda been laid every night (and frequently was) with prequalified captious bottoms with child-bearing hips and small, uncut cocks, just what I like. 
Blessed with brains, talent and gorgeous tits.

The revolutionary smart set reads The Spin Cycle at least once every day.

Blathering on AIDSmeds since 2005, provocative from birth

Offline madbrain

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #65 on: September 22, 2008, 05:52:26 PM »
Bucko,

Am I the only one on AIDSmeds who finds more available pozhole on Manhunt than I could ever hope to satisfy? Folks living in the hinterlands complaining about the dearth of available poz guys have my sympathy.

Apparently so. I have never hooked up with anyone on manhunt, let alone someone poz. I don't recall even seeing anyone local there that I was interested in so I cancelled my free account.

Quote
Or maybe the situation is just so different for bottoms that I simply cannot relate.

Being top here I don't think that's the problem :)

Quote
But down here in the alternate universe of Ft Lauderdale men are just too plentiful to waste one's time among the D&D-Free crowd.

I would say you are very lucky.

Quote
And I gotta say that, even if I have left some encounters with ashes in my mouth, on-line hook-ups are simply the most efficient way of qualifying beaux. All your particulars are written down, easy peasy. When I was in full swing in 2006 I coulda been laid every night (and frequently was) with prequalified captious bottoms with child-bearing hips and small, uncut cocks, just what I like. 

I agree about on-line hookups being the most efficient way. But it's still hit and miss !
I met with 2 guys in the last week who had responded to my CL ad that included the sentence "poz and play safe only". Neither had any idea what poz meant, if you can believe that ! Or maybe they just looked at the pretty pictures and skipped that part. Anyway, it wasn't until when I told them in person that they figured out what it meant, and suddenly they didn't want to be there anymore.

I did get a call from one guy on saturday, from a blocked number. I can't pinpoint who it was since I gave my number to a few people that were potential matches day. He said he was poz too, and pleaded with me to bb with him. But I said I would only do it safe. He just refused to let me use a condom. That's where the conversation ended. I will probably never hear from him again. This seems to be consistent with most of the (very few) poz ads I see on cl - the guys who disclose they are poz in their ads do so because they want bb.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2008, 05:53:58 PM by madbrain »

Offline mecch

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #66 on: September 22, 2008, 09:10:49 PM »
Madbrain,

Did I read this correctly - you have a boyfriend? And you said you are a sex addict was that a joke or serious?

Why don't you move on from your current sexless relationship and find a guy who wants you to fuck him silly all the time?

All the rejection you experience on the chats seems like a heavy burden.  Of course its your life, I dunno, just seems like if something degenerates into banging one's head against a wall, why bother?  Life is too short -- there must be something more fulfilling to do or invest in, something with more returns and rewards?

Lucky are the cruisers like Bucko who get what they want easily, or the guys who have boyfriends who supply what they need.

Well anyway as I just became poz I dunno what I will experience. I used to have periods where I found a fair amount of sex on the chats. Other periods where I found it in real life. 

Shouldn't we make a distinction between chats that are mostly about sex pickups, and other sites specifically designed for personal ads by POZ people.  Surely there would not be HIV stigma in the latter - though who knows, and of course they would be other kinds of prejudice!

If i wanted to cruise chats for hookups again, I hope if I experience any quantity of rejection such as you report, Madbrain, I shift gears and follow my own recommendation for doing something better with my time and talents.

If my virus soon goes to zero, will I be tempted to not disclose? That's not in principal who I want to be. But not sure I judge those who do that.  Doesn't seem like such a big deal if its just a trick.

Madbrain, since you always disclose, and you so often get rejected on sex sites -- I'm sure you have lots to give or share other than your sexuality, maybe a change of venue and or goal??. Or maybe give up being a "sex addict"?  Or don't disclose.

Some of the older guys piped in with the relief that comes with simply not being interested in personal ads / dating / random sex, whatever... anymore.

Would be nice to hear from more guys who have had HIV for years -- how they may have evolved if they were ever involved in personal ads, chats, internet dating / sex.

best to all
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline David_CA

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #67 on: September 22, 2008, 11:23:57 PM »
Lucky are the cruisers like Bucko who get what they want easily, or the guys who have boyfriends who supply what they need.


Even luckier are the guys who don't have to choose!   :D  Seriously, I've not encountered much rejection from online hookup sites due to my HIV+ status.  There seem to be quite a few guys, in this area at least, that are HIV+ and prefer other HIV+ guys.  It sure makes things easier.  For some reason, a guy that's HIV+ is simply more desirable to me (assuming he's desirable in the first place). 

Am I the only one on AIDSmeds who finds more available pozhole on Manhunt than I could ever hope to satisfy?

Not just pozhole, but poz guys in general seem to be in abundance on Manhunt. 
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline woodshere

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #68 on: September 23, 2008, 09:09:50 AM »

Not just pozhole, but poz guys in general seem to be in abundance on Manhunt. 

Looks like I need to join Manhunt. 

"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline Buckmark

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #69 on: September 23, 2008, 11:30:50 AM »
Quote
Some of the older guys piped in with the relief that comes with simply not being interested in personal ads / dating / random sex, whatever... anymore.

Would be nice to hear from more guys who have had HIV for years -- how they may have evolved if they were ever involved in personal ads, chats, internet dating / sex.

As someone who is 44 years old and has had HIV for 19+ years, I suppose I am one of the "older guys" you are referring to.    ::)   I'm certainly still interested in dating, so I guess I haven't found any "relief" from that.  However, I haven't found that personal ads are an effective means of getting to know people for dating.  From what others have said here, they are likely a fairly efficient means of meeting people for sex.  It depends on what your goal is.

If I have "evolved" since having HIV for years, I suppose this is one way.  I've recognized that, for me, sex comes further along in the course of getting to know someone, rather than right from the git go.  Not that I don't think about sex frequently, because I do (man, do I!).  I have to admit to being a bit envious of those who can jump right in and enjoy a roll in the hay.  For me, the problem there is that the generally brief nature of such an encounter leaves me with an extreme emptiness that reinforces some of the relationships I had a kid (specifically, with my Mom and Dad).

So I can say that I've learned this about myself over the years.  Of course, I probably would have learned this whether or not I was HIV+ (but being positive so long, it's hard to remember another frame of reference).  I'm not sure if this is what you were looking for, but mecch, but since you asked.

Regards,

Henry


"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things:
     One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell.
     The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love."
- Butch Hancock, Musician, The Flatlanders

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #70 on: September 23, 2008, 11:44:29 AM »
Looks like I need to join Manhunt. 

"It's a website where you connect with your friends, and make new friends... but, you know, without having to actually talk to anyone." - Boom Boom, X-Men : Manifest Destiny

Offline Buckmark

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #71 on: September 23, 2008, 12:01:06 PM »
"It's a website where you connect with your friends, and make new friends... but, you know, without having to actually talk to anyone." - Boom Boom, X-Men : Manifest Destiny

LOL.  This sorta sums up my experience with personal ad websites.  I find that people rarely want to meet and talk.

"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things:
     One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell.
     The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love."
- Butch Hancock, Musician, The Flatlanders

Offline woodshere

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #72 on: September 23, 2008, 01:01:21 PM »
"It's a website where you connect with your friends, and make new friends... but, you know, without having to actually talk to anyone." - Boom Boom, X-Men : Manifest Destiny

And those are exactly the kind of friends I am looking for when I am on line at 3am!!
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline mecch

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #73 on: September 23, 2008, 01:34:23 PM »
the generally brief nature of such an encounter leaves me with an extreme emptiness
« Last Edit: September 23, 2008, 03:09:54 PM by mecch »
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Offline mecch

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #74 on: September 23, 2008, 02:07:25 PM »
Hi Henry,

Thanks for sharing. It's true what you said about learning things with time, regardless of your HIV status.  Many gay guys and including myself feel that sort of emptiness to hooking up just for sex. But it is pretty easy and even easier if you are HIV negative, or, as described above, ignorant and "presumed" HIV negative. Just as I suppose its easier if you are a total stud and harder if you are average or have some handicap or whatever.

My ex and I had an open relationship and he got tired of tricks long before I did - he wanted real relationships with other people, and with me too. (actually he wanted tricks, and lovers, AND me, greedy bastard!)  I only wanted tricks and long-term strictly fuck buddies (and some very strick fuckbuddies at that, hehehe) under the guise that it was more respectful of him, and also it just seemed less complicated and time consuming than running a few human and intimate sex relations concurrently.

So apologies, I'm sure I projected some of my own experiences and fears onto you, Madbrain, about negotiating cruising for sex through chats and ads in addition to a relation, and in addition to being POZ.  My exboyfriend and i weren't breaking up but also werent fucking too much and we were both looking elsewhere and it all just got too complicated and people got hurt. 

Somehow, without judging others, I think some common sense might work out for me in the future - either being a sex cruiser, or being in a relationship.  Doing both didn't work in the long run as a HIV neg guy, and now life seems more complicated as a HIV positive guy so why complicate it even further? I had this wonderful woman generalist MD when I lived in new york and sorry for the stereotype but she was big, beautiful, black and she used to say the most common sense things to me, like "Honey, do you really need all that sex, it's tearing you down" or one time when i was getting all complicated with eating control "honey, you're too thin, now go get yourself a meatball sub and stop all this tutti frutti tofu nonsense".

Forgive my pyschobable, but, isn't stress and rejection and feeling empty or used (by example, frustrating contacts through ignorant or offensive or brutal chat/personal ad routes) counterproductive to a good prognosis with HIV?  AIDS is caused by HIV, and HIV is a virus that is transmissable, plain and simple. But aren't there often too many instances in which transmission is related to doing something other than our common sense might approve. 

Emotional states, stress, the environments we put ourselves in, the people and actions we put in our lives.  We need true, authentic, respectful, people around us, as pozzies, no?  Not to mention delightful and caring people. Personal ads and hook up sites are filled with good and bad, but the bad can be so delusional!

I asked my specialist about this pyschobable of mine and he said the far MOST important thing for staying healthy as a poz was adherence to HIV treatment.  He said, for example, the studies on depression and HIV progression aren't convincing for treated pozzies. 

I dunno.  I was REALLY impressed by the statistics about "unknown status" and thus false HIV negatives on gay chats. I guess we all suspect that and act accordingly.  But over the years, and over hundreds of hook ups, I was lulled into false security and false confidence in other's people's knowledge about their own bodies. STUPID STUPID me.

The gay chat / hook up site most popular in my country has NO place to indicate HIV status. But extremely detailed options... for dick size, tatoo placements, various sneaker fetishes, etc....    Is "practices safe sex?" answered as "negotiable" a code for MAYBE poz?  Must we become semioticians to ferret out the other pozzies???

I just did the search and there are pitifully few guys who mention POZ status in their profiles and those people of course don't have pics.  Far cry and far distance from this American Manhunt, i see!

Since we pozzies have enough to worry about, what about we don't attempt to change something that is never going to change - such as CHAT / HOOK UP routes that are "in denial" about their own clientele. These chats are businesses, not social services, after all, - they arent made to make pozzies welcome!!   And we can't bemoan chat/hook up sites that don't personally work for us, cause we aren't sexy hung studs or cause we live in the boondocks where pozzies live in hiding, etc..  We can't control or change any of that.

Choose your forum??  Some guy wrote in another thread a REALLY beautiful touching story about meeting a great guy and new love on a POZ personal ad site.  Another guy said the poz sites are as filled with desperates and deluded as any other site.

I can't see how a POZ site could EVER work in my country -- re: hiv stigma and the high value placed on discretion.  Still they seem like a good idea.  Maybe I will do something about getting something like that started in my country... 

Or maybe I'll just garden and cook and work and live and see what great dude crosses my path in flesh and blood and personal ads be damned.

Best to all
« Last Edit: September 23, 2008, 03:12:46 PM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #75 on: September 23, 2008, 02:42:19 PM »
 Last week I decided to put an end to my life without sex . I snapped a few naked pics with my web cam , found a site called Squirt that offered local opportunities for hookups and joined with the best intentions of finally getting laid .

It all is going perfectly and I got 16 emails the first day . When I sign on I was bombarded with chat invitations from guys that were eager to hookup for sex , others liked my pics and wanted to do the web cam thing only , because of my hiv status . 

When it came down to it I totally wimped out and could not follow through on a hookup for sex with someone on the quick . I had to take a time out and think about it some . After a little soul searching I feel what I really want is to meet some body POZ with similar intrest that is willing to chat and get to know each other before I can feel comfortable enough for sex .

I have met quite a few guys that feel the same way as I do and this has turned into a positive experience for me . In the mean time I have my needs met by chatting and swapping photos and  home made movies I like to make .

I'm 46 and blame all this on androgel .   

Offline mecch

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #76 on: September 23, 2008, 03:05:20 PM »

I'm 46 and blame all this on androgel .   


Hmm, I gotta get me some of that gel, if it'll turn me into a highly sought after, big squirting, home-movie porno star!  (Hey, I heard it shrinks balls? True? Well, by any chance it makes dicks bigger? Or does your dick look bigger cause your balls get smaller...)

Good for you for reflecting on your experience!  Reading this thread I decided to put up a totally obviously poz bio on a gay chat and to reflect on my experience in the next weeks with that.  Thanks for sharing your inspiring gambit!

Hey this is kind of a nonsequitor, but I've only been poz a few months and only treated a few weeks but why are friends (who dont know) saying I look sexy these days???  Hmm maybe I should get me some of that androgel afterall.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline David_CA

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #77 on: September 23, 2008, 03:22:38 PM »
the generally brief nature of such an encounter leaves me with an extreme emptiness

Of course, depending on which 'role' one assumes in such an encounter, one could be left with 'an extreme' fullness.   ;)
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline mecch

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #78 on: September 23, 2008, 03:37:12 PM »
XTREME FULLNESS indeed.

Sad but true  :'(, the encounter that led to my seroconversion  ??? was an internet hookup with a sexy impotent  :-[ horse hung  :o guy equipped with a convenient injectable remedy  ::), which all led to my content feeling of extreme fullness but also viral enhancement. 

If only my Brooklyn MD had been there to knock some sense into my stupido head about the poppers and needle and deep throating, cause all that would have been odd and worrisome to her. But I'd had plenty of experience with all three, so my warning flags didn't go up, so horny was I to get that dick down my throat.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline denb45

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #79 on: September 23, 2008, 03:52:41 PM »
XTREME FULLNESS indeed.

Sad but true  :'(, the encounter that led to my seroconversion  ??? was an internet hookup with a sexy impotent  :-[ horse hung  :o guy equipped with a convenient injectable remedy  ::), which all led to my content feeling of extreme fullness but also viral enhancement. 

If only my Brooklyn MD had been there to knock some sense into my stupido head about the poppers and needle and deep throating, cause all that would have been odd and worrisome to her. But I'd had plenty of experience with all three, so my warning flags didn't go up, so horny was I to get that dick down my throat.

Don't feel too bad, as the sayin go's " If you dance to the music, you got to pay to the Piper" most all of us here know how we got infected, and most of us don't, so, I wouldn't beat myself up over it  ;D it's just a Virus, so, I think you can move on with your life now..........
« Last Edit: September 23, 2008, 03:54:41 PM by denb45 »
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline woodshere

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #80 on: September 23, 2008, 03:55:55 PM »
I much prefer other modes of hooking up other than internet dating sites or chat rooms such as gay.com, etc.  Probably because I have such horrible luck.  I can say with 99% certainty that I was infected via an AOL hookup with a hot nameless man from Boston staying at the local Hyatt as well as having a difficult time even attempting a hook up with guys due to my inability to handle rejection.  However, I do occasionally try it and I am amazed that the local gay.com chat room can be full and there might be 1 or 2 guys that admit to being poz or just leave that info blank.  I just have a hard time believing that. It is interesting that this thread and the thread on stigma are getting alot of action at the same time.  I wonder if ignorance and stigma aren't related in some way?
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #81 on: September 23, 2008, 05:21:56 PM »
 to mecch 
Hmm, I gotta get me some of that gel, if it'll turn me into a highly sought after, big squirting, home-movie porno star!  (Hey, I heard it shrinks balls? True? Well, by any chance it makes dicks bigger? Or does your dick look bigger cause your balls get smaller...)





from jeff
LOL , I think the nature of these pick up sites filled with desperate horny guys wanting instant gratification  coupled with bio's that read party and play a bigger role in my success than my pics or any gel can take credit for . I like to play the days without the party .

Androgel has brought back my sex drive with a vengeance without any shrinkage .
« Last Edit: September 23, 2008, 05:26:11 PM by jg1962 »

Offline denb45

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #82 on: September 23, 2008, 05:29:28 PM »
XTREME FULLNESS indeed.

Sad but true  :'(, the encounter that led to my seroconversion  ??? was an internet hookup with a sexy impotent  :-[ horse hung  :o guy equipped with a convenient injectable remedy  ::), which all led to my content feeling of extreme fullness but also viral enhancement. 

If only my Brooklyn MD had been there to knock some sense into my stupido head about the poppers and needle and deep throating, cause all that would have been odd and worrisome to her. But I'd had plenty of experience with all three, so my warning flags didn't go up, so horny was I to get that dick down my throat.

Hey mecch..........

     You have to get that from a Doctor, and they won't give you any if you don't need it, if your PSA-TEST comes back normal (and you have normal Testosterone levels) you won't get any of the gel or any thing else for that matter ::) that is meant for a replacememt theraphy ONLY, and is not any thing like VIAGRA
just so you understand.............
« Last Edit: September 23, 2008, 05:31:56 PM by denb45 »
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline Buckmark

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #83 on: September 23, 2008, 05:39:29 PM »
Of course, depending on which 'role' one assumes in such an encounter, one could be left with 'an extreme' fullness.   ;)

Of course, that's not the sort of fullness or emptiness I'm referring to.

You horn dawg.... 
"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things:
     One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell.
     The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love."
- Butch Hancock, Musician, The Flatlanders

Offline mecch

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #84 on: September 23, 2008, 05:43:26 PM »
Hey Denby,

Yeah I know for the androgel. I was just joshing. Dont mean to make fun of any meds anyone takes. Androgel's effects sound pretty cool, however.

Best to all
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Buckmark

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #85 on: September 23, 2008, 05:54:39 PM »
It is interesting that this thread and the thread on stigma are getting alot of action at the same time.  I wonder if ignorance and stigma aren't related in some way?

I was thinking the same thing, and I think there is some relation.  I probably wouldn't feel as much stigma if I didn't see so many ignorant, bone-headed personal ads.  But how do I change people's perceptions?  And should I care to?  I have to admit that it does bother me when I hear ignorant comments about people with HIV, such as those seen in personal ads.  My intellectual side tells me that this is a reflection of them, not me.  However, my emotional side tells me something else -- that I'm somehow a lesser person because I'm HIV+.  Intellectually I can say to myself that I can only be put down if I let others put me down.  Feeling that and owning that, however, is another matter.

Perhaps I will post this in the other thread.

Regards,

Henry
"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things:
     One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell.
     The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love."
- Butch Hancock, Musician, The Flatlanders

Offline David_CA

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #86 on: September 23, 2008, 06:08:56 PM »
Slightly off topic...

Some guy sent me a message on ManHunt the other day.  He said he wanted me to breed him.  He went on to tell me that he was a bug chaser and that he wanted to share my virus.   ::)  I told him that I wouldn't share it, but instead I'd give it to him.  He'd have to take the entire thing, though; I wouldn't want to keep any of it whatsoever.  It would be for him alone.  For some reason, he didn't want to chat anymore... and he probably thinks I'm the weirdo!   :D
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
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Offline Jeff G

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #87 on: September 23, 2008, 06:16:54 PM »
Good answer David !

Offline madbrain

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #88 on: September 23, 2008, 06:40:10 PM »
Madbrain,

Did I read this correctly - you have a boyfriend? And you said you are a sex addict was that a joke or serious?

Serious.

Quote
Why don't you move on from your current sexless relationship and find a guy who wants you to fuck him silly all the time?

Well, I love my bf. The relationship is not completely sexless. Once every 2 weeks. Just a tad short of the 1-2x/day I need/want. However sex is not the only thing in a relationship. I would be happy to stay with him and have 1 or more regular fuckbuddies on the side.

Quote
All the rejection you experience on the chats seems like a heavy burden.

Sure is, but it doesn't keep me from trying.

Quote
Of course its your life, I dunno, just seems like if something degenerates into banging one's head against a wall, why bother?  Life is too short -- there must be something more fulfilling to do or invest in, something with more returns and rewards?

I do have plenty of other fullfilling activities in my life. I play the piano, harpsichord, I'm into photography, home theater, I go to the gym, I write code for a living, I cook. But I still need the sex.

Quote
or the guys who have boyfriends who supply what they need.

My bf did supply it - we had sex nearly daily, until we both got diagnosed with HIV. My sex drive went down, but recovered, but his never did. I feel quite guilty about it given that I gave him the bug.

Quote
Shouldn't we make a distinction between chats that are mostly about sex pickups, and other sites specifically designed for personal ads by POZ people.  Surely there would not be HIV stigma in the latter - though who knows, and of course they would be other kinds of prejudice!

There is always going to be prejudice no matter where. There are some things people tend to be able to get over even if it's not their preference. But on the non-poz sites, HIV+ is rarely on that list.

Quote
If i wanted to cruise chats for hookups again, I hope if I experience any quantity of rejection such as you report, Madbrain, I shift gears and follow my own recommendation for doing something better with my time and talents.

I sure wish I was able to do that, but it is easier said than done. I did see my therapist about it last night. Maybe some of my meds will be changed. After that meeting I went out and scored, with a neg guy. It was the second meeting with him. Maybe he will become a regular fb.

Offline Joe K

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #89 on: September 23, 2008, 08:51:45 PM »
Henry!  Quite the thread you have here and I believe it has direct correlations to the stigma surrounding HIV.  That said, I just have a few comments of my own to add.

My first comments are directed to Madbrain, as I hope I can help you to see why some of what you say is so damaging to the people who frequent this site.  When you make emphatic statements that you cannot substantiate through peer-reviewed studies, you do everyone a disservice, particularly our readers lurking in the shadows.  What did you think Dachshund was talking about when he was responding to your posts?

You are saying things that contradict the science based research found on this site.  Your personal opinions are fine, as long as you state them as such.  However, when you make broad statements, such as getting HIV through oral transmission must be very common; you have crossed the line, because that has almost no basis in fact.  The damage occurs because you are sending conflicting messages regarding the official policies of AM.

We stress that oral sex is a theoretical to very low risk activity, not that it never occurs.  However, if you read the research and other posts, you will see little support, that after all the hundreds of millions of blowjobs, which occur each year, almost no HIV infections have been documented through oral transmission only.  We have a responsibility when we post, not to promote unproven content as anything other than our own.  Exactly how do you propose that the average reader is to glean any true prevention knowledge from here, when they read one thing in the lessons and then read posts such as yours, contradicting that very information?

And then you compound the issue by claiming to practice safer sex and then listing enough STDs to infect the Seventh Fleet.  Sorry to jump down your throat, but I’ve been living with HIV for 24 years and I know firsthand the damage that can be done, by providing conflicting prevention information.

As to all, the rest about hook up sites and what people say in their ads.  I maintain that these sites are just virtual meat markets.  To me there appears to be at least two distinct types of gay men that frequent bars and sex sites.  Those who are honest in what they want and what they want is a casual hookup, FB or whatever.  It is then the responsibility of both parties to properly disclose and negotiate their rules of play.  Moreover, you can all stop laughing now, because I am just stating my opinion.  (I may be depressed, but I am not stupid).

The second group of gay men is more interested in relationships, of many different flavors and while hooking up is fine; they want something more than just casual sex.  I believe the problems arise when people are unable to identify what they really want in life.

I am a perfect example.  I thought I wanted casual sex all the time, but after a few years alone, I found it becoming boring and rather empty.  As drug use continued to rise, it became more of a chore to find someone whose hardware would work.  I was also much more vain back then and so I went after the pretty boys and I landed one and then he turned on me.  Long story short, he turned into a drug-addled, sexual deviant who thought getting high and drunk was fun, especially when he could come home and beat on me.

It all ended when he went to jail for trying to kill me and I decided that I was done being the victim.  It is amazing how liberating that entire separation was, because it forced me to open my eyes and decide how I wanted to live the rest of my life.  Therefore, I made a short list of qualities that were necessary in a man and set about my search.  I put up personal ads, went on forums or to support groups and other gay events, to put myself out there, because if the world does not know that you are available, they certainly will not come knocking on your door.

I also changed the way I dated.  I no longer looked for sex or love, but rather like.  My grandmother used to say that when you choose a mate, choose someone with whom you enjoy talking too, because as you age, talking will soon be all that you have left.  I also changed the mechanics of my dates, to make them afternoon meetings, somewhere public like a coffee house.  That way, if you do not click, you are not stuck at a dinner or movie with someone who hold little interest for you.  This method had its advantage, because if you did click, then you could just segue into dinner or some other activity.

I met my husband Stephen, almost 10 years ago, when I found his profile, online, at a web site that he swears he had never signed up for (queue Twilight Zone music here.)  We immediately clicked, because our profiles were eerily similar.  We emailed for a week or so and then talked on the phone and soon we were meeting for dinner.  At dinner, we bonded because our histories were like mirror images.  He had also had an abusive, drug-addled and drunk ex, so what was there not to like?

In addition, our lists of necessary traits in a prospective mate were almost identical, even though we are two very different personalities.  We both agree that if you can agree on the rock bottom issues of your relationship, then all the rest is negotiable.  The rest, as they say is history, however with Stephen came one of the toughest challenges of my life.  Trust me when I say that I grew up in a very unsettling home and I learned early that the only one I could really rely on was Joe.  Not my parents, not my family and after I turned poz, not even my friends.

Finally, after about a year into our relationship, I made the leap of faith that would be required to attain the kind of relationship that I ultimately wanted.  I dropped my shields, I tore down my walls and I handed my heart to Stephen, with the promise that he would never hurt me.  We are entering out 10th year together and I took my man home to Canada, where we wed and we recently relocated to Montreal, where being a gay married couple is perfectly normal.  I fell in like, then lust and finally in love with Stephen and that gives me all the fulfillment I need.  And sex for us is very precious, not because we are prudes, but simply because we do not need anyone else but each other.

I think it comes down to deciding what you want and then make that happen.  If you shop in the meat market, do not be surprised when not everything is as advertised.  Learn to grow a thicker skin and try to develop asshole radar to weed out the chaff from the wheat.  Many times, finding someone is no harder than you make it out to be.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2008, 08:57:15 PM by killfoile »

Offline madbrain

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #90 on: September 24, 2008, 12:28:41 AM »
Hi,

My first comments are directed to Madbrain, as I hope I can help you to see why some of what you say is so damaging to the people who frequent this site.  When you make emphatic statements that you cannot substantiate through peer-reviewed studies, you do everyone a disservice, particularly our readers lurking in the shadows.

What did you think Dachshund was talking about when he was responding to your posts?

You are saying things that contradict the science based research found on this site.  Your personal opinions are fine, as long as you state them as such.  However, when you make broad statements, such as getting HIV through oral transmission must be very common; you have crossed the line, because that has almost no basis in fact.  The damage occurs because you are sending conflicting messages regarding the official policies of AM.

We stress that oral sex is a theoretical to very low risk activity, not that it never occurs.  However, if you read the research and other posts, you will see little support, that after all the hundreds of millions of blowjobs, which occur each year, almost no HIV infections have been documented through oral transmission only.  We have a responsibility when we post, not to promote unproven content as anything other than our own.  Exactly how do you propose that the average reader is to glean any true prevention knowledge from here, when they read one thing in the lessons and then read posts such as yours, contradicting that very information?

And then you compound the issue by claiming to practice safer sex and then listing enough STDs to infect the Seventh Fleet.  Sorry to jump down your throat, but I’ve been living with HIV for 24 years and I know firsthand the damage that can be done, by providing conflicting prevention information.

Oral sex transmission of HIV now has its very own thread. This is the "Ignorance in personal ads" thread. I know I made a digression here, and I'm sorry for that, but I thought we had moved on from that topic here.

The new thread is http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=23118.0 . Please follow up in there if you are actually to discuss that topic.

I don't need to respond to the rest of your post because there are so many things in it that you are attributing to me that I simply did not write and only a few that I did.
All I did was relate my personal story as accurately as I could. I don't need a lecture about risks to know and relate what I did. I don't think telling my story violates against AM guidelines. Where I was not sure of something I think I made it clear in my posts.

If you have a problem with something I wrote, then please quote it, especially if you think there is a conflict somewhere in what I wrote. But once again, if it's about oral sex transmission, please do so in the above-mentioned thread.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2008, 12:42:00 AM by madbrain »

Offline Joe K

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #91 on: September 24, 2008, 10:45:01 AM »
Madbrain, I stand by what I said and many of your posts, in this very thread, were not a digression, they were a hijack of this thread.  Instead of talking about the post topic, you talked about your own infection and sex life, which had little to do with the topic.  I am not about to waste my time quoting you and refuting each of your your statements.

However, I will quote Tim Horn on AMs official policy regarding oral HIV transmission:

Here's our official stance on the subject:

Of the different sex acts, the one that often causes the greatest amount of confusion in terms of risk – and raises the greatest number of questions – is penile-oral sex. The fact is, most experts agree that fellatio, sometimes referred to as "blow jobs," is not an efficient route of HIV transmission. However, this does not mean that it cannot happen.

Research attempting to evaluate the risk of fellatio has often faced important limitations. For starters, very few people participating in studies only engaged in penile-oral sex. Many people also had unprotected vaginal or anal intercourse, making it very difficult to determine if unprotected fellatio is an "independent factor" associated with HIV transmission. There are also people who test positive for HIV and claim that unprotected fellatio was their only risky behavior. However, it's virtually impossible to know if these people are always reporting their sexual behavior accurately. (Study volunteers often have a difficult time admitting the truth about potentially embarrassing behavior to healthcare professionals conducting scientific studies.)

Because unprotected fellatio can mean that body fluids from one person can (and do) come into contact with the mucosal tissues or open cuts, sores, or breaks in the skin of another person, there is a "theoretical risk" of HIV transmission. "Theoretical risk" means that passing an infection from one person to another is considered possible, even though there haven't been any (or only a few) documented cases. This term can be used to differentiate from documented risks. Having unprotected receptive anal or vaginal intercourse with an HIV-positive partner is a documented risk, as they have been shown in numerous studies to be an independent risk factor for HIV infection. Having unprotected oral sex is a theoretical risk, as it is considered possible, but has never been shown to be an independent risk factor for HIV infection.

Here's a good way to think about theoretical risk: In theory, it is possible that while walking down the street, a meteor will fall on your head and kill you instantly. This is because meteors do occasionally fall to earth. People live their lives above ground, so there is a theoretical risk of being hit be a meteor. In fact, there have been reports of a few people being hit by meteors. But because the risk is so small, given that few meteors fall to earth and the large number of inhabitants of this planet, the risk is purely theoretical. The same principle holds true with oral sex – millions of people all over the world are believed to engage in unprotected oral sex and there have only been a handful of documented cases of HIV transmission. In turn, fellatio, and other types of oral sex (see below), remains a theoretical risk for HIV infection.

There have been a number of studies that have closely followed MSM and heterosexual couples, in which one partner was HIV positive and the other partner was HIV negative. In all of the studies, couples that used condoms consistently and correctly during every experience of vaginal or anal sex – but didn't use condoms during oral sex – did not see HIV spread from the HIV positive partner to the HIV negative partner.

There have been three case reports and a few studies suggesting that some people have been infected with HIV as a result of unprotected oral sex. However, these case reports and studies all involved MSM – men who were the receptive partners (the person doing the "sucking") during unprotected oral sex with another HIV-positive man. There haven't been any case reports or studies documenting HIV infection among female receptive partners during unprotected oral sex. Even more importantly, there hasn't been a single documented case of HIV transmission to an insertive partner (the person being "sucked") during unprotected oral sex, either among MSM or heterosexuals.

Is insertive oral sex a possible route of HIV transmission? Yes. But is it a documented risk? Absolutely not.


Nothing we've written here -- or advocated in these Forums -- contradicts ACOG's recommendation. It is a low-risk activity that all sexually active individuals should consider the grand scheme of things.
[/font][/color]
Tim Horn

I was hoping you could admit that maybe you could be more careful about how you relate your own story and so I have had my say.

I am sorry Henry for this hijack.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2008, 10:51:06 AM by killfoile »

Offline Ann

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #92 on: September 24, 2008, 11:12:50 AM »
Mad, Joe, please let this be the end of the hijack. If either of you wish to discuss it further, please take it to PMs.

Thank you for your cooperation. It's much appreciated.

Ann
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Offline gatortony

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #93 on: September 24, 2008, 11:35:18 AM »
I read the personal ad quoted above as:  "I'm HIV- (hence a good witch and a "postivie" representation of the gay community as opposed to those free-loving pozitrons whose across the board disrespect for life keeps my golf and tennis club from accepting me).  If you enjoy such pastimes as self-ghettoization, internally couched desires to have mad bareback sex and vanilla cakes with more psychologically disturbing layers than Dante's hell, I'm your man."
Although I eschew religion in the talking in tongues sense, I will, however, pray for the author.  Ignorance like his is far more dangerous than anything that could come out of my veins or genitals.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2008, 11:36:57 AM by gatortony »
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Offline mecch

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #94 on: September 24, 2008, 02:23:38 PM »
I read the personal ad quoted above as: 

What ad are you referring to, please?

“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline gatortony

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #95 on: September 24, 2008, 03:56:35 PM »
The one quoted in the first post.

Cheers,
Tony
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Offline mecch

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #96 on: September 24, 2008, 06:38:45 PM »
Hmm,
"Kenneth, what is the frequency??"

Uh has this train been too hijacked, or you think it has some steam in it if we get back on track?

The original quote from some Texas personal ad:  "I'M HIV- (( If you are positive I hope you have enough respect for your fellow man to tell him before you go bare backing the entire state! ))"

Its not entirely ignorant, from my perspective and in my experience.  Offensive but...

1) With all the gay sero-sorting here in Europe there are a lot of pozzies barebacking each other.  Not true in USA, or Texas??  Merits and dangers of which, not to be argued here.  Point - if a negative internet cruiser is aware of that and its makes him uneasy, WTF, this comment is understandable if clumsy. 

2) Furthermore, it's also a plea for disclosure.  Assuming let's say this is a confirmed negative guy, he wants those who KNOW they are poz to disclose.  I'm not defending the crass way he puts it. I'm not defending the implication that maybe poz guys are morally currupt and wouldn't disclose and WOULD bareback. Im not saying the advertiser MIGHT be ignorant in WISHING every potential partner online knows his or her status. 

We are missing information on what this person wants.  To be barebacked by a negative? 
I guess we can assume this is a negative guy looking to bareback? Numbskull.  But that given, his request is "somewhat" self-protective.

Or is there a logic skip in the sentence? Does he want disclosure so he can refuse the poz guy (as WELL as judge the poz guy for potentially being morally currupt).

Let's just say I had an interesting conversation with my specialist MD today who confirmed that my country has been able to track some HIV transmissions to certain poz people who have transmitted multiple times, and over several years (so its not during seroconversion phase, but may be linked to some untreated poz peoples' high viral loads).  To clarify, this tracking is possible because the poz peoples' viral genotypes are known and therefore these people know they are positive -- because they would have had to sign the paper letting them be genotyped and tracked.  This info had been given to me by a poz AIDS activitist exasperated by the discouraging state of the gay community and the continuing epidemic in the gay community in my country.   

So vis-a-vis the epidemiology in my country, and these "typhoid marys" (as some might consider), we can't know what the negotiation between the poz and the negs was in the transmitting acts, and we can't know what acts.  But we might assume that there are a few poz guys in my country who are barebacking with disastrous results for neg guys.

Just saying.... 

Yeah I know -- neg guys gotta protect themselves. As we said - there is missing info to the ad. Maybe it's not even an ad for a "hookup".  If he wants a bareback relation, that's human and understandable isn't it?  But we all know chats and hookups and sex clubs can dehumanise, desensitize, (and relationships can give false security), and we all know sex itself can lead to iffy decisions. 

The more I think about it, the more I realise that I think like this guy who advertised, but I wouldn't express myself his way.

In a better world, all poz people would know they are poz, there would be caution without stigma, all poz people would disclose before sex, all poz people who wanted treatment could get it.  Would that change the "epidemic" in the gay community?

Not speaking of this rude guy, but do we ridicule the HIV negative people for their wishful thinking for lower HIV danger?  Isn't that the future we all want.

Also, one bad apple does not spoil the whole bushel. Meaning the few poz "Typhoid Marys" (i'm not saying thats what I think) do not spoil the entire community of poz people.

Whew. OK now everybody can say I gave this dumbass and his ad more consideration than he's worth, and I tend to agree.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2008, 07:57:07 PM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline komnaes

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #97 on: September 24, 2008, 10:39:03 PM »
The ignorance referred to here I think is that the poster has more or less assumed that all of us are "typhoid Marys".

I have had some similar exchanges in a local gay forum, and somehow it didn't come as a surprise to me that many gay folks think that the fact that us pozzies dare to even show up in a sauna is being irresponsible and a health threat to the neggies. At the end each of us draws the line where we would not cross on what's considered irresponsible - but what's important is not whether one is infected, but how safe one wants to be. And inevitably most people who think that the responsibility is entirely on us to disclose (and rejected) are usually the people who firmly believe that you can get HIV easily from blowjobs, having small cuts on fingers, etc.

Of course the neggies want NOTHING sexually to do with us pozzies, even my very supportive and liberal friends would have problems getting in bed knowingly with one of us even with full protection. But does it justify the prejudices they put on ads and forums, openly portrait us irresponsible ("barebacking the whole state") .. I think that's the question.
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
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Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline mecch

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #98 on: September 25, 2008, 07:20:26 AM »
Put more succintly than I could, bravo.

By the way, in the local sauna, there is poster at the entrance that says (roughly translated here) "1 out of 6 guys in the scene is positive. Act accordingly". 

Typhoid Mary is a fascinating story and we can still learn from her experience:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/typhoid/mary.html

First she transmitted disease not knowing she had a disease. Then later, she went back to work and spread it again, despite knowing...

 


« Last Edit: September 25, 2008, 07:41:42 AM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline gatortony

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #99 on: September 25, 2008, 10:27:59 AM »
Zounds!  My brief comment on the tone of the ad has drawn some, in my opinion, ill interpretation.  To me, the ad was some dude blanketly condemning POZ men as people with a nefarious mission to  bareback his entire state, and not a way for him to hook up, as it were, with an HIV+ person.  If my criticism of this person's tone was too sharp, or if I took a bit too much poetic license with my response, I humbly beg your understanding and forgiveness. 
I applaud those who wish to safeguard their health. It is their absolute right and prerogative to be informed of the status of potential partners.  Likewise I condemn the behavior of those who knowingly infect others.  The ad which began this thread remains, in my mind, appalling, filled with spurious notions about HIV+ people and fueled by our communitie's own sense of "us" and "them".
My only regret is the fact I may not have elucidated properly my interpretation of the intentions of the ad's poster.
Humor is a tool employed by many who, like myself, have seen too much hatred and bigotry thereby choosing to laugh off instances of perceived slights.
I do, however, completely understand the previous response wherein the poster thought I believed the guy was looking for a conversion experience.
Cheers,
Tony
« Last Edit: September 25, 2008, 10:31:07 AM by gatortony »
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Offline madbrain

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #100 on: September 29, 2008, 05:45:00 AM »
In a better world, all poz people would know they are poz, there would be caution without stigma, all poz people would disclose before sex, all poz people who wanted treatment could get it.  Would that change the "epidemic" in the gay community?

Yes, I think it would change the dynamics of the epidemic, especially if something could be done about the stigma around HIV. If the stigma wasn't still so prevalent, there would be much less motivation for somebody not to disclose their status than there is today. I am convinced that most non-disclosure occurs because of (well-founded) fear of rejection. It is very distressing to read that some people are out there infecting others on purpose, but I sincerely hope that they are not the majority of what's driving the epidemic today.

By and large I think most HIV- people are not well informed about what it means to have HIV. They only get told about transmission risks and what steps to avoid getting it. They don't really get told what will happen if they do end up getting it. I'm not saying living with HIV is a piece of cake by any means, but it is not the death sentence it once was, and it is far better than having many other diseases like, say, some cancers, where the life expectancy is really much shorter. Yet we hear a lot about people in their family members having cancers, and hardly a peep about people living with HIV. And when it comes to couples, it's even worse. If only one spouse has cancer they may not be so reluctant to tell others about it, but if only one spouse has HIV ... Well, short of Shawn Decker I can't name another one on the top of my head. I believe the only way for us to end the stigma is for us to come out about it. It is not something to be proud of by any means, but it shouldn't be something to be ashamed of either. There is a heck of a lot of work to do in that area.

I think perhaps if people had more knowledge of what it means to get and live with the disease, come to realize they will still live fairly long if they take care of themselves, that they can still live in a couple even if their partner is not the same status, even have kids, then perhaps a lot of the psychological counseling that usually accompanies diagnosis today wouldn't be required anymore at the time a test result is given. Perhaps rapid HIV tests could be distributed or sold directly to the public, rather than be available only in a few places with limited hours and by apointment only as they are today. I think that would be huge progress. That would make the whole question of disclosure irrelevant overnight, at least for those who are willing to wait 20 minutes for the test result. It would certainly stop the people who are trying to infect others on purpose dead in their tracks. It would also force everybody else who hasn't disclosed yet to do so. Of course, those rapid tests are not cheap. And they are not approved for individual use. They cost far more than condoms. I do not know the exact cost, but I have heard around $60. But perhaps these costs can be brought down somewhat by the economics of mass production ? I sure wish people could buy a 100-pack of oraquick tests at costco as they can a box of condoms (even if it costs more).  And the government who is already paying for the meds through ADAP and so on could do the math and chip in for part of these costs if it will mean paying for fewer meds in the long run. They could have a class about HIV in schools where they would explain the tests and their purpose, what to do if there is a positive result - seek treatment, help instead of reject their partner, make sure to always have safe-sex with them without exception, use to PEP if there is an accident. And the testing kits would be distributed in schools, along with the condoms. Of course by now I'm thinking about some completely alternate universe where government plays a much more proactive role in healthcare than it does today in the USA. Whatever it would cost, I'm sure it would be much less than $700 billion ...

Quote
Not speaking of this rude guy, but do we ridicule the HIV negative people for their wishful thinking for lower HIV danger?  Isn't that the future we all want.

Yes, it is indeed.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2008, 05:50:51 AM by madbrain »

Offline mecch

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #101 on: September 29, 2008, 01:29:48 PM »
Hmm, is there still life in this thread!

So I was inspired to place a Personal Ad on my local chat that clearly said I was poz and looking for whatever with the same.  No picture yet, not ready...

So I got about 10 responses the first few days -- all from HIV negative guys who either
1) thanked me for my honesty
or
2) mostly said my ad was appealing, and do I limit myself only to poz guys, because want to meet me.

I did a national search on any key words that might indicate someone is HIV poz and got about 50 out of tens of thousands....

So conclusion - there is a fair amount of stigma among pozzies ourselves?

To be continued.



“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #102 on: September 29, 2008, 01:55:35 PM »
I'm sometimes surprised by how many times I have been contacted by guys that did not even bother to read the part about me being POZ .

Offline madbrain

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #103 on: September 29, 2008, 04:33:41 PM »
I'm sometimes surprised by how many times I have been contacted by guys that did not even bother to read the part about me being POZ .

Yes, that never ceases to amaze me also. I don't know if people can't read or do not want to read the ads or emails.

Offline David_CA

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #104 on: September 29, 2008, 06:03:28 PM »
I'm sometimes surprised by how many times I have been contacted by guys that did not even bother to read the part about me being POZ .

Which is why, if it's a hook-up that's being planned, it's probably best to mention it in any PM's or emails prior to actually meeting.  I consider stating one is HIV+ or 'ask me' (depending on the site) in a profile as the first round of filtering potential contacts.  The second, more certain way is to openly mention it.  Perhaps it's easier to ask the other person their status.  If negative, it would be easy to say "You realize I'm HIV+, right?"  That might be easier for some than to just blurt out "I'm HIV+." 
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #105 on: September 29, 2008, 06:17:03 PM »
David , that's what I was trying to get at , just much better said by you .

When I read someones profile that has contacted me with interest and they don't say they are POZ  I always disclose at that point . I have yet to hook up but I have met some fun guys both Neg. and POZ .

Better safe than sorry .

Offline denb45

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #106 on: September 29, 2008, 07:45:27 PM »
Which is why, if it's a hook-up that's being planned, it's probably best to mention it in any PM's or emails prior to actually meeting.  I consider stating one is HIV+ or 'ask me' (depending on the site) in a profile as the first round of filtering potential contacts.  The second, more certain way is to openly mention it.  Perhaps it's easier to ask the other person their status.  If negative, it would be easy to say "You realize I'm HIV+, right?"  That might be easier for some than to just blurt out "I'm HIV+." 

Wouldn't it be a lot easier to only put ads in POZ sites only, I say why even bother w/ non-Poz-sites, whats the point in going to them at all..................just sayin"  :-\ at least in a POZ site the only thing you really have to worry about is STD's if you choose to have unsafe sex.................but, on the other hand rejection
isn't always due to being POZ, it could be a lot of things, maybe they just don't fine you attractive, or maybe, that person just isn't your type? it could be a whole host of reasons why............
« Last Edit: September 29, 2008, 07:56:32 PM by denb45 »
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Offline Jeff G

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #107 on: September 29, 2008, 07:54:14 PM »
I'm sure they are out there but I have never visited a site that is considered a non poz site .
« Last Edit: September 29, 2008, 07:58:36 PM by jg1962 »

Offline David_CA

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #108 on: September 29, 2008, 09:01:12 PM »
Wouldn't it be a lot easier to only put ads in POZ sites only, I say why even bother w/ non-Poz-sites, whats the point in going to them at all..................just sayin"  :-\ at least in a POZ site the only thing you really have to worry about is STD's if you choose to have unsafe sex.................but, on the other hand rejection isn't always due to being POZ, it could be a lot of things, maybe they just don't fine you attractive, or maybe, that person just isn't your type? it could be a whole host of reasons why............

Easy.  There are very few HIV+ only sites in general.  For example, in our area, there are more HIV+ guys that state their HIV+ status on Manhunt.  There are others that don't state, or say they're negative but 'confess' when they find another HIV+ guy.  I personally don't have a problem disclosing on such sites.  Also, the sites that are the most effective, that get the best results are the ones I'll use.  Unfortunately, so far, that's not an HIV+ site.

Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline mecch

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #109 on: September 30, 2008, 11:06:09 PM »
Wouldn't it be a lot easier to only put ads in POZ sites only, I say why even bother w/ non-Poz-sites, whats the point in going to them at all

1) My experiment would suggest that negative guys welcome poz guys both on the sites, and as potential dates, sexdates, or boyfriends.  Maybe that's because on the site in question in my country, HIV is the elephant in the room.

2) Sites mentioned in USA - poz status doesnt prevent people from getting what they want from the site that includes both poz and neg.

voila
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline madbrain

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #110 on: October 01, 2008, 07:39:39 AM »
Wouldn't it be a lot easier to only put ads in POZ sites only,

Well, everyone has different criteria. If you insist on only meeting another poz person, then yes, it makes sense to limit yourself to those sites indeed. For me, I think that greatly and unnecessarily limits the pool of available partners.

Quote
I say why even bother w/ non-Poz-sites, whats the point in going to them at all..................just sayin"  :-\ at least in a POZ site the only thing you really have to worry about is STD's if you choose to have unsafe sex.................but, on the other hand rejection
isn't always due to being POZ, it could be a lot of things, maybe they just don't fine you attractive, or maybe, that person just isn't your type? it could be a whole host of reasons why............

Of course there can be a whole lot of other reasons there isn't a match. The other reasons are why I have never met a single person from a poz-only site. The available pool on poz-only sites is just much smaller, and that just makes it that much harder to get a match.

If you choose not to have unsafe sex, then the poz-only sites are a really bad place to go, as I found most people on those sites only want unsafe sex, and I'm not down for that, as I'm in no rush to get extra STDs on top of the HIV.

Despite all the discrimination that I have seen on the non-poz sites, I still have made much more than 0 match on them. It is very time consuming, and annoying, to deal with the reactions to the H-bomb each time I drop it, but it is still worth it for those times that a match do happen, usually with neg guys (or poz guys who won't disclose, even to another poz guy) who would never have been on the poz sites.

Offline denb45

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #111 on: October 01, 2008, 10:22:52 AM »
Well, everyone has different criteria. If you insist on only meeting another poz person, then yes, it makes sense to limit yourself to those sites indeed. For me, I think that greatly and unnecessarily limits the pool of available partners.

Of course there can be a whole lot of other reasons there isn't a match. The other reasons are why I have never met a single person from a poz-only site. The available pool on poz-only sites is just much smaller, and that just makes it that much harder to get a match.

If you choose not to have unsafe sex, then the poz-only sites are a really bad place to go, as I found most people on those sites only want unsafe sex, and I'm not down for that, as I'm in no rush to get extra STDs on top of the HIV.

Despite all the discrimination that I have seen on the non-poz sites, I still have made much more than 0 match on them. It is very time consuming, and annoying, to deal with the reactions to the H-bomb each time I drop it, but it is still worth it for those times that a match do happen, usually with neg guys (or poz guys who won't disclose, even to another poz guy) who would never have been on the poz sites.


If you REALLY want to meet a POZ person like you for a LTR, then maybe you need to get-off-the-internet, go out to a HIV+ Support Group, and find an POZ guy that you like, and you have something in common with, the internet can be a very mean place to meet someone who is Honest about who they are ,and what they want...Real interpersonal meetings with a Real person, gets the PRIZE....just something to consider here  ;)
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline madbrain

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #112 on: October 01, 2008, 08:33:55 PM »
Hey,

If you REALLY want to meet a POZ person like you for a LTR, then maybe you need to get-off-the-internet, go out to a HIV+ Support Group, and find an POZ guy that you like, and you have something in common with, the internet can be a very mean place to meet someone who is Honest about who they are ,and what they want...Real interpersonal meetings with a Real person, gets the PRIZE....just something to consider here  ;)

I didn't think this thread was specifically about personal ads for LTRs, but that it included all kinds of personals, also including hookups, friends with benefits, etc. I am already in an LTR, and I'm not looking to replace my bf. The relationship is open, but it has been much lower in the sex department than I want, so I use the personals to get my needs met, with varying degrees of success. I still don't have a regular guy for sex as much as I wish I did.

I went to a support group for about one year regularly after my diagnosis. It helped with support a lot, but not really find guys that I related to. Most people who attended were much older (around 2x my age) and not working, and though they provided much helpful support, they weren't people I was looking to get in bed with. When I started working full time again at the beginning of the year, it became harder for me to attend the group, so I had mostly stopped going. I did go again 2 mondays ago and was pleasantly surprised to find a guy within 6 months of my age. I had him over at my place the following weekend for a movie, and a little bit of action. We are both tops though, so not exactly great matches in that department. But at least I made a new friend.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2008, 08:53:05 PM by madbrain »

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #113 on: October 01, 2008, 09:10:20 PM »
I'm sometimes surprised by how many times I have been contacted by guys that did not even bother to read the part about me being POZ .

Lines on a monitor blur through the other end of a lit crack pipe honey.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #114 on: October 01, 2008, 10:48:35 PM »
Lines on a monitor blur through the other end of a lit crack pipe honey.

LOL!  :D Very Karen Walker, both the comment and your avatar.

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #115 on: October 02, 2008, 08:45:41 PM »
Lines on a monitor blur through the other end of a lit crack pipe honey.


LOL , You always give me something to think about .  ;D

Offline Graywolf

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #116 on: October 05, 2008, 06:33:48 PM »
I've seen a few nasty ones on manhunt

"Don't even think of emailing or IMing me if you have HIV. I will blow you off faster than you can blink"

"If you're HIV+ please keep your disease to yourself and leave the rest of us alone"

I've also gotten a few very mean emails in my poz social profile

"I hope you don't think anyone would have sex with you. You look like you have AIDS"

"You played, now you pay. We don't need to have our noses rubbed in your problems. You made your bed now sleep in it and shuit the fuck up"

"I'll be glad when all of you are dead and we can get on with life."

These came from the beautyful trible tatt'd, 8 pack ab horse hung circuit party set and mails were totally unsolicited, then they blocked me. >:(
"If we don't learn to live as brothers, we will perish as fools" - Dr martin Luther King Jr

Offline Graywolf

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Re: Ignorance in Personals Ads
« Reply #117 on: October 05, 2008, 06:47:51 PM »
I almost forgot, Someone mentioned seems guy don't read. In my Poz4Social profile I state that I've been poz for over 23 years and open to helping newly diagnosed poz and long termers, plus have Poz checked off. I still get the question asked "poz or neg?"

This story is funny as well as sad, I had just got in MH 5 years ago and was chatintg with a local guy, very hot looking had neg in his profile, I figured he rad my profile and told him on the phone I was poz and he said, no problem?

He comes over, dick in hand like a cat in hear dargging his ass on the floor, wanted me to screw and dump in him BB. I repeated, well I'm not really into anal all that much any more, I told you that and youi know I am poz, right?

Now the envelope please..........yeah I was gonna ask you what's that mean

So I told him in shock, "it means I'm HIV positive"

His reply, "You have AIDS and you were gonna fuck me raw" you gpo to hell you bastard and he stormed out the door........I had hte itchy suspicion he was tweaked and I do NOT mix it up with tweakers ever.

I have bene told my profile pics are very nice and recent, no big hog pics or gaping butt shots. Guys don't read, they see a pic they think is hot and their brain sinks down between their legs


I should write a long entry in here about a lot of the interesting, ignorant and stupid questions I'v ebene asked, could fill a book.
"If we don't learn to live as brothers, we will perish as fools" - Dr martin Luther King Jr

 


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