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Author Topic: A Personal Reflection  (Read 3324 times)

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Offline david25luvit

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,409
  • Member since March 2005
A Personal Reflection
« on: July 28, 2006, 09:20:31 AM »
What happened yesterday with Dan was a keen reminder of my suicide attempt that New Years Eve and how desperate I felt when I took a bunch of pills hoping to end the pain.  No.  This is not about me...but about Dan and how overwhelmed he must have felt to do what he did yesterday.  Some here on the forum were and will be deeply affected by the events of yesterday and I think its important that we share our concerns and our fears with one another.  It was during my recovery that I found this place and found others who helped me find my way back...I pray Dan will find his way back.......................
In Memory of
Raymond David McRae III
Nov. 25, 1972- Oct. 15, 2004
I miss him terribly..........

Offline purpledragonfly

  • Member
  • Posts: 149
Re: A Personal Reflection
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2006, 12:46:35 PM »
David, I have been very upset since i came online last night and read what was happening. It brought back feelings i had 5 yrs. ago when i tried the same thing as Dan. I was very lucky to have a friend that just happened to walk in when i stuck the first pill in my mouth. I owe her my life. Yesterday was very bad, after i got offline last night and reading about Dan, a dear friends daughter came running over, my friend had just done the same thing Dan had done, right in front of her husband and kids. Thank God she is ok and will be coming home from the hospital tomorrow.
I know one thing about all of this and that is we need each other, no matter what sex we are or what color our skin is. or how old or young we are. We need each other.
I thank God that Dan reached out to us like he did. I am going to say some very special prayers for Dan, my friend and everyone on here that was so worried like i was last night.
I am proud to say i am a part of this great loveing family here on the forums.

Love Wendy

Offline HIVworker

  • Member
  • Posts: 918
  • HIV researcher
Re: A Personal Reflection
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2006, 12:53:32 PM »
It at least had a happier ending that it could have. One thing that made me curious. Why take pills and then go on the internet and tell everyone you did. That's a cry for help, no? If so, how do we respond being so far away?

R
NB. Any advice about HIV is given in addition to your own medical advice and not intended to replace it. You should never make clinical decisions based on what anyone says on the internet but rather check with your ID doctor first. Discussions from the internet are just that - Discussions. They may give you food for thought, but they should not direct you to do anything but fuel discussion.

Offline Teresa

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Re: A Personal Reflection
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2006, 01:07:09 PM »
What happened last night with Dan shook me to the core. I cry everytime I think about it. I don't know if it was because I read his post right after he posted it and was in his post all evening praying and waiting on word that he was OK. I hit that refresh button so many times.

I have never ever thought about killing myself. I have never known anyone that has. I cant imagine the dispear one must feel to get to that point. I am so thankful that there were people here that knew what do so and acted so fast.

David and Wendy I'm so glad that someone was there to stop you from doing that. I wouldn't have gotten to know you through your posts if you had been successful.

Love
Teresa
Hubby HIV+ 5/5/06
CD4:320
  %: 26.7
 VL: <20
Atripla (started it 8/24/06)
 

Offline krakerjm

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  • Posts: 107
Re: A Personal Reflection
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2006, 01:36:36 PM »
Those who stupidly take pills to end it on a moments notice for what ever the reason at the time and then cry for help aren't serious, just seriously need help.  I have a str8 friend who has done this same foolishness 3 times over the years, but is still with us....those who really want to end it do so without a word and are found later very dead.
GWM, 63, PN w/footdrop
"I swear there ain't no heaven, pray ther ain't no hell"

Offline RapidRod

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  • Posts: 15,288
Re: A Personal Reflection
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2006, 02:07:28 PM »
krakerjm, I have to agree with you. I've been to several suicides and attempted suicides. The ones that succeeded didn't call or leave a note. The ones that alerted someone was a cry for help. There is nothing wrong with crying out for help. People do understand.

Offline Life

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  • Posts: 2,388
  • Member 2005
Re: A Personal Reflection
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2006, 02:16:51 PM »
The unfortunate facts are that people learn from their mistakes and continue to persue this over the years.  If they do not get help, they usually wind up succeeding.  I hope that anyone contemplating such an act realizes this is not right and to discuss this with professionals.  I also support anyone who makes the decision based off of quality of life issues..  Certainly these were in play here also...
« Last Edit: July 28, 2006, 08:52:49 PM by Eric »

Offline Eldon

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  • Posts: 2,664
Re: A Personal Reflection
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2006, 03:33:44 PM »
I beleive that Dan is reaching out for the love and support. He just went about it in a different way. Life sometimes can be overwhelming.

Offline krakerjm

  • Member
  • Posts: 107
Re: A Personal Reflection
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2006, 03:47:25 PM »
RapidRod, there is never anything wrong with crying for help, but why so extreme?  I have always been availabe to my str8 friend and when this happens, I am the one he relys on; but for some reason he can't talk about it before hand; he just takes the pills and gets in touch with me cause he knows he did something stupid and I will do whatever is in my power to save him.  So goes life...it's an unfortunate weakeness many of us never experience, ecept maybe on the saving part.  Have "I" ever thought about sucide?  Maybe for one second early on, but that was stupidity, guilt and shame; for what: I am that I am(to quote God and Popeye the Sailor).  Not sure about our lives being exactly what they are: pre-destined.
GWM, 63, PN w/footdrop
"I swear there ain't no heaven, pray ther ain't no hell"

Offline Joe K

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 3,846
  • 31 Years Poz
Re: A Personal Reflection
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2006, 04:30:44 PM »
I like the idea of sharing our thoughts about Dan and his actions, but in reading some of these posts, I just have to add some clarity to some of the misconceptions presented here.  I've considered suicide a few times and I can't even begin to describe the horrible feelings that lead someone to those attempts.  Yes, Dan was reaching out and fortunately he got some help, but he is far from better, as now he must face the fact that he attempted suicide and failed and all the fallout that this entails.

Dan has some serious problems and all we can really do is let him know that we care about him and that we are here for him, but he must do the asking.  In a way, Dan has crossed a line that few of us would ever consider, let alone take action to achieve our own suicide.  His actions were born from desperation and they are not a mistake, as some part of him knew exactly what he was doing.  You'll just have to trust me on some of this, because I have been there and if he wanted to die, he would be dead.

Dan's fallout will also include his return to these forums and having to face all of us here.  So threads like this are so important, because it is here where we can tell Dan how much we care about him and welcome him back into the fold.  No matter what society as a whole may think, I do not believe there is any shame in attempting suicide.  I always view suicide attempts as the absolute last call for help and for some people THIS IS THE ONLY WAY THAT THEY KNOW HOW TO ASK FOR HELP.

Dan's actions were not the result of a weakness or wrong thinking but rather from his being Bi-Polar which is a form of mental health DISEASE.  I urge all readers to stop speculating because your words, even if unintended, can be more hurtful that you know.  Dan does not suffer from weakness, wrong thinking or making mistakes, he suffers from being Bi-Polar and may have little control over his actions.  No matter what, he suffers from disease and not from some weakness of character nor lack of will power.  But when posters use words like weakness, mistakes or wrong thinking, that suggests that Dan has done something wrong and that is far from the case.  Please try to just accept Dan and not pass judgment on his actions by the use of such hurtful words.

Part of me is also angry with Dan, because these issues have plagued him for some time and he should have gotten move effective help.  Yet, I have walked in his shoes, so I also realize how hard it can be to get the help that you need.  Just because you take some pills and see a therapist can mean little, depending upon the mental health issues that you face.  So my anger is that Dan didn't come to us sooner, but fortunately he did and so for me, this is all water under the bridge.  His plea has been heard and that is what is important.

What matters now is Dan recovering and if we can play any part in that, then great, but no matter what, none of this changes how I feel about Dan and if anything it will just alert me to follow him a little more closely to insure he is getting the help that he needs.

Dan, whenever you are ready, we are here, waiting as always with open arms.  Be well my friend.

(edited for clarity)
« Last Edit: July 28, 2006, 08:29:45 PM by killfoile »

Offline david25luvit

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  • Posts: 1,409
  • Member since March 2005
Re: A Personal Reflection
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2006, 05:41:03 PM »
Joe... I agree.  It's important for us to be supportive and not judgemental.  And like you I've been where Dan was last night and I assure you I didn't call or write anybody...I was in a coma for two days before anyone found me....Why I didn't die is beyond me...  Oddly enough we watched Dan slowly fall apart...and even though he seemed pleased to be free of the Bi-Polar guy...  It is apparent now that he was in more distress than we realized.  His cry for attention and for help became very obvious yesterday...and we need to support him in every way when he returns.

 Antics aside...His cry for help has touched us all.  Like many of you yesterday, I felt very helpless to reach out to him.  I pray he returns to the forum, the family and finds the support I believe we all need to thrive as we go down the road of life.
In Memory of
Raymond David McRae III
Nov. 25, 1972- Oct. 15, 2004
I miss him terribly..........

Offline purpledragonfly

  • Member
  • Posts: 149
Re: A Personal Reflection
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2006, 06:16:04 PM »
Joe and David,

Thank you for saying what you both said, no one wants to kill themself, I have been there and i still have to fight with myself sometimes so i don't get that bad again.I am so happy that Dan did call out for help. I see nothing wrong with asking for help no matter how you ask for it. Dan you did they only thing you could think of to get help, and we were there for you. You must know now that if you ever get these fillings again that you can come here and say help me, and we will all be here for you.
I guess if you have never been where Dan was last night you will never know how it makes you feel.
Dan, i have been there and i am telling you now, if you ever need any one to talk to and to help you thru something you can email me or pm me and i will be there for you.
Get well Dan, we all love you and will welcome you back with open arms. no questions asked.

Love Wendy

Offline tnboy

  • Member
  • Posts: 108
Re: A Personal Reflection
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2006, 07:46:58 PM »

 Thanks Joe for saying, so well, what you said!  I have been there more times than I care to admit and I can't explain it but Joe nailed it.

   Dan, I Love You man and will do anything I can to be a better friend whenever you are up to it.

Offline RAB

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,895
  • Joined March 2003
Re: A Personal Reflection
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2006, 11:30:46 PM »
David

Thank you for starting this thread, I think it is important for everyone to be able to sort through what happened.

My "personal reflection" on what happened?

I hate the suffering that Dan is experiencing.  I want nothing more than for him to find the help he so desperately and obviously needs.

Having said that, I think it's crucial to point out that there was more than one victim yesterday.

RAB

Offline gerry

  • Member
  • Posts: 522
  • Joined AM Feb 2003
Re: A Personal Reflection
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2006, 10:50:07 AM »
How do you distinguish "a cry for help" from manipulation?  It's good to offer support and such, but I don't think it is appropriate to just absolve a person from such dysfunctional behavior and assume that this person has "little control over" their actions if they have repeatedly ignored encouragement to seek the help that they need and continue to literally suck energy out of and cause just as much distress to the people who are trying to reach out to them.

Having gone through the entire series of events over the past couple of days, only to come back in exactly the same situation with exactly the same attitude is not my idea of moving forward.  This also does not create a good set-up for any real dialogue or intervention.  Accountability is a two-way street.

Offline clarke

  • Member
  • Posts: 169
Re: A Personal Reflection
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2006, 11:53:04 AM »
Hey ya'll, check out my post in the "aftermath" thread.  Might give everyone an idea just ho s____y things are down there.

Offline kcmetroman

  • Member
  • Posts: 567
Re: A Personal Reflection
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2006, 12:06:13 PM »
Well, we all read a story as children about the Boy Who Cried Wolf. 

Offline Joe K

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 3,846
  • 31 Years Poz
Re: A Personal Reflection
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2006, 12:14:06 PM »
Gerry,

While I understand what you are saying, exactly what would you have us do?  An unfortunate by-product of any support action, is that you will be deceived by a few.  For some people it seems to be the only way that they think they can communicate with others.  I don't believe that anyone is absolving Dan of blame, but again what you have us do?

Surely you are not suggesting that we would ostracize Dan if he returns, nor would we ignore the pleas of ANY member for help.  Other than making sure we never get deceived by Dan again, I do not see anything that I would want to change about this place.

Offline Tim Horn

  • Member
  • Posts: 799
Re: A Personal Reflection
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2006, 12:25:35 PM »
Hi guys...

Listen, I'm going to lock this thread, as Andy has created another thread for discussion to help everyone move beyond this incident.  The fewer threads dedicated to this subject, the more quickly we can consider this water under the bridge.

Best wishes to everyone,

TIm Horn

 


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