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Author Topic: My biggest fear coming true already  (Read 6759 times)

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Offline Philly1972

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My biggest fear coming true already
« on: August 26, 2008, 10:11:15 PM »
I've only been living with this for a short time - July 2nd was the day I learned I was positive.  Although it came as a complete shock and I was not at all prepared, I came to terms with it fairly quickly and in fact embraced it - making positive changes in my life to live healthier and appreciate life more.  There has been one thing that I've feared and has had the ability to get me down if I allowed myself to think about it - what if I met someone?  How would I tell that person?  When would be the right time?  Would I lose them?  How would it affect us - our sex life - our love life?  Could I ever date someone who was negative - could I ever enjoy love making with that person?  Could I put someone at risk that I truly care about?  I put those thoughts on the back burner because I've waited for someone special to come along for 4 years and it hasn't happened, so why worry about something that may never happen.  Well, guess what? - it's happening.  I went to PTown for vacation and met someone - he's the first guy I've met in 4 years that I could see myself with.  It was truly amazing.  So amazing in fact that we did not have sex because it felt special and we wanted to wait.  We've been talking and texting all day every day since we parted ways on Sunday and he's already planning a trip down to see me next weekend.  I should be on top of the world and have butterflies with all those wonderful feelings of a new budding relationship - but instead I feel anxiety and slight depression and keep coming up with excuses how I can end this and not hurt him.  I convinced myself yesterday that I would tell him we lived too far apart to date (he lives about 3.5 hours away) and that he is too young and needs to discover himself (he's 22 and 14 years my younger).  Both of these "excuses" are valid - but the truth is that if it weren't for my hiv, I would still give it a shot because I think we are moving towards falling in love.  I think we would eventually oversome the distance (I know he would move) and he's actually incredibly mature for his age.  Here is what makes it even worse - he asked me twice if I were "clean" and I said yes both times.  Not only was it not the right time to tell him, but I didn't expect it to get to this and knew I wouldn't do anything to endanger him.  He is actually a little freaked out by it and hasn't had sex in 2 years because of a fear of catching hiv....he saw his best friend get infected and it destroyed him.  I don't know what to do.  I feel awlful even letting him come see me but I want to see him so badly....just one more time.  I'm so confused and frustrated.  Not since those first couple days have I allowed myself to be depressed by this and consumed with it.  Now I am going to sleep and waking up thinking of nothing but.  I hate this.  What should I do?  I need advice badly.

Offline fearless

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2008, 11:27:59 PM »
tell him the truth.
you've lied to him. it one thing not to tell, it's another to lie.
i would fully expect that when you tell him the truth he will be mightily pissed and likely leave. be prepared for that.
sorry if that is harsh, but it is the truth.
Be forgiving, be grateful, be optimistic

Offline sharkdiver

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2008, 11:36:08 PM »
I agree with Fearless

you need to "come clean", so to speak.
He doesn't appear ready and neither do you at this time.

Sharkie

Offline Patrick

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2008, 11:39:16 PM »
I agree with fearless, you have to tell him.  It would be selfish for you not to let him know.  And yeah, he'll probably leave - but it's his health and emotions you are playing with here.  If you truly care about him, you need to be honest.  Please let him know.
Seroconversion - late October 07
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Offline Longislander

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2008, 01:13:52 AM »
Halfway through your post I was getting ready to tell you about how a poz can date a negative guy, and it can work out. But then I got to the point where you and he already discussed HIV. His feelings about it are out on the table, and I don't think he's going to change his mind.

I think you should tell him before he comes to see you. Don't make something up about why you can't see him. Any other reason you represent could leave him wondering what happened??? Let him know the truth, let him make a decision based on the facts.

If he doesn't want to continue to see you, so be it. There'll be others. 

Good luck
infected 10/05 diagnosed 12-05
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Offline tooltimer

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2008, 02:14:18 AM »
Philly1972,

You aren't the first person in the world who didn't come clean (no pun intented), about your HIV status.  I majority of the guys I have met have lied. Somethimes I think guys like to do 'drive bys' and don't think they will ever have to see the person again. Often, they don't even give their real name or phone number.  It's a one time fling and you're never expected to see each other again.  When a special person comes along, it is a shock, and you don't plan for it to be so good. So, you first deceive, then you realize it is so difficult to fix your lie, so you let it linger on.

I don't think the first thing you have to say to a guy is "Hi, I'm Joe and I'm HIV+. Are you still willing to talk to me?".  But I've learned that it is not fair to carry on the unwillingness to disclose your status, if you think the guy is devoting time to you and you both think it will lead to sex.

I had a very muscular good looking friend go into a gay bar in his neighborhood.  Some guy walked up to him and said, "You look so healthy. How would you like to go in the back room and have sex?"  My friend, who had been POZ for 15 years, was devastated and walked out of the bar.  The assumption that he was HIV negative, just because he 'looked healthy' was such a detrimental comment to him.

Don't make assumptions that people will like you for your looks or personality and dislike you just beause you are POZ.  But if you decide to reveal your HIV status early in the conversation, you will at least know where you stand.

It took two hours of conversation in the bar for my friend and this other guy to talk before the offer to go into the back room happened. When my friend said "Thanks, but no thanks - I'm HIV+.", the other guys response was "Why did you just waste two hours of my time?".

There is no easy time or specific time when you need to disclose your status. Just don't wait too long, lie about your status, or you will both regret having ever met.  It's just getting off on the wrong foot.

It would be nice to go into gay bars and wear red wrist bands if you are HIV+, Blue wrist bands if you are not and green wrist bands if you are comfortable meeting someout that is willing to meet, date and/or become friends.

If you let this guy fly all the way to see you, without first informing him that you lied, there is a bout a 95% chance he will walk out and never turn back.  On the other hand, you may have a chance to start a relationship, if you get down on your knees, beg for his forgiveness and say you just weren't prepared for his question and you just froze up and the longer you waited to tell him the truth, it just became more difficult. Maybe you could salvage a friend out of it for now and maybe someday, who knows. Maybe his attitude could change about dating HIV+ guys, but you aren't helping that cause!

Or he could do as I did, trust someone who said they were HIV negative, I trusted him and got infected, and then we both didn't have the problem of one being POZ and the other not being POZ.  It's the lie that did me the most harm. Once that he lied to me and infected me, I had no purpose in trusting him again.

I'm glad I moved on.  It's still difficult getting involved with guys, just because of the disclosure issue.  It's only been 11 years since I found out I was positive. I've dated a guy for 4 years now, but I'm still apprehensive about getting too close.  We are best friends and spend a lot of tiem together, so I can't complain.

Use this experience as a learning tool. Try to be prepared with the right speech when the next guy comes along and know to tell him your status before you jump in bed.

Dating is an art, not a science. There are no perfect times to say what you want and be guaranteed the response that you expect.

Good Luck in this and future relationships.

Offline Philly1972

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2008, 09:09:49 AM »
I hear what everyone is saying.  I know I need to tell him.  I didn't lie on purpose - I wasn't prepared for the question and he asked in the most inopportune moment - I hope he understands that.  I think it was the first time since getting the news in July that this became real and suddenly was impacting my life.  I feel like this is not something I should be doing over the phone, but then again don't want to lead him in more and then have him get hurt even more.  Should I let him visit and tell him in person?  Of course I would not have sex with him until the truth was out.  I feel like this is like the chicken and the egg - do you tell someone right up front so they walk away before getting to know you, or tell them once you are into it enough that they may begin to like you for who you are and then make an informed decision about the disease?

God this f**king sucks.  I'm at work right now and am trying my best to hold back tears.

Offline atlq

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2008, 09:23:13 AM »
Here is what makes it even worse - he asked me twice if I were "clean" and I said yes both times.  Not only was it not the right time to tell him, but I didn't expect it to get to this and knew I wouldn't do anything to endanger him.  He is actually a little freaked out by it and hasn't had sex in 2 years because of a fear of catching hiv....he saw his best friend get infected and it destroyed him.  I don't know what to do.  I feel awlful even letting him come see me but I want to see him so badly....just one more time.  I'm so confused and frustrated.  Not since those first couple days have I allowed myself to be depressed by this and consumed with it.  Now I am going to sleep and waking up thinking of nothing but.  I hate this.  What should I do?  I need advice badly.

Philly72,

Since you asked for opinions, here is mine. You need to tell him now. For your well being more than his. If you put it off and become even more deeply involved, it will just become messier...

Bottom line: it sucks. More than once my status has been an issue in dating.  But there is no alternative.

I am sorry about your pain, babe. But you are only going to compound it by not being truthful.

(BTW....If a guy asked me if I were "clean', I would assume he thought I'd hadn't bathed that day...Suggesting that people with HIV-you and I- are not "clean", is extremely offensive... I know he is just 22, but if that would be his attitude towards you because of the virus, well....)

“Keep up the good work....   And God bless you.”
  --  Sarah Palin, to members of the Alaskan Independence Party, 2008

Offline woodshere

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2008, 09:28:21 AM »
...do you tell someone right up front so they walk away before getting to know you, or tell them once you are into it enough that they may begin to like you for who you are and then make an informed decision about the disease?

Welcome to Dating with HIV 101, today's topic is disclosure.

This is something I am sure we all have experienced first hand and only after trial and error do we get a sense of the best way to disclose.  I had three different approaches with the first 3 guys I dated after testing positive.  After going out with the first guy 2-3 times I realized we weren't going to be anything more than friends so I didn't tell.  The second guy I told within in the first 5 mins of starting our first date, didn't plan it that way, the conversation just led to my disclosure and it turned out to be the best first date I ever had.  Too bad the next few sucked.  The "when do I disclose" debate really played a major role with the third guy.  We met through Chemistry.com, exchanged emails for several weeks getting to know each other (ideal time to disclose but I didn't)  met and started dating and still I didn't.  It seemed I could never find the right time, I was having such a good time I didn't want it to end because I was HIV+.  However it was time to take things to the next level. I told him, he said he was fine with it, we had sex and I never saw him again.  (and it wasn't because I was bad in bed)  When we finally talked he said he couldn't handle dating someone HIV+.  The reason he acted fine with my disclosure was so that he would not hurt my feelings.  I learned my leason and now I immediately tell anyone that I might be interested in dating.

I fear this it isn't going to work out very well for you.  But use this experience as part of your trial and error in learning the best way for you to disclose.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2008, 09:30:03 AM by woodshere »
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline Lisa

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2008, 10:08:36 AM »
I concur with tooltimer,with a caveat. Once I learned of the whole "clean" issue, my hackles raised. This seems to demonstrate a lack of nuance that comes with maturity. For this reason alone, I would have seen the giant red flag waving over his head.  I applaud your fortititude, but you may want to be a bit more pragmatic in your over-all "big picture" considerations. I also envy the dreamy, floating feeling one gets when a sudden spark of chemistry takes you by surprise.
It's just the whole "clean thing". I would have calmly asked him "Are you asking if I bathed today?", and when he said "No, you know, do you have the aids?", I might have been tempted to unload on him, and do a little teaching. He's going to have to know how to treat this subject in the future if he doesn't want to have his face ripped off. He may even be just fine after you disclose. If he isn't, don't allow yourself to think of yourself as damaged goods. YOU MOST CERTAINLY ARE NOT! You have a virus living in your body that can bring some potentially dangerous things your direction, but NO ONE is precluded from contracting this muck.
Did you think of turning his question back on him? Ask him when he was last tested. If he has been dating, and having sex, have there been any unprotected episodes? I wonder about the whole "too special" thing too. He may be leading you down the primrose path. Maybe this is his M.O.
Think about these things instead of worrying about whether he will stay around. If he walks, it will be his loss, not yours. You deserve to be treated well, and spoken to in adult terms.
You GO!
No Fear  No Shame  No Stigma
Happiness is not getting what you want, but wanting what you have.

Offline Philly1972

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2008, 10:50:36 AM »
Thanks Lisa.  I was actually coming here to say that I wanted to go cry my eyes out (still kinda do) but your comments helped allot - the anxiety I get when I think of having this conversation is gut wrenching and I don't think I can do it.  Honestly, I think I would rather tell him I can't do a long distance relationship.  What's wrong with that?  It's not so far from the truth - I really do have reservations about those, especially with someone so young.  If we haven't had sex, what business is it of his about my status?

I'm not as upset over the clean comment - I think he just meant it as a more general question meaning am I clean of all std's.  I did say, "why do you ask" and he replied "you have to these days".  When we met he told me he practices celebacy (for the last 2 years) and he has not broken that with me.  I asked him about it and he said that 2 years ago he was sleeping around allot and was often not safe - him and his best friend went and got tested together - he was negative but his friend was positive.  He saw what it did to his friend and it scared him into celebacy.

Offline Buckmark

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2008, 10:56:40 AM »
I think you've received a lot of good advice here, so I'll just reiterate what I think are the important points:

First, you need to be honest with him and tell him you are positive.  Especially since he asked (albeit in a uninformed manner, and that's my next point).  You should also prepare yourself for a potential harsh and negative reaction when you disclose -- his reaction should speak volumes about how suitable a match he may be for you. 

Second, you are not "dirty" because you are positive.  The way your new love interest phrased the question (asking if you are "clean"), demonstrates a lack of ignorace.  I, like Lisa, would have been tempted to unload on him for asking the question in such a way.  I also *love* Lisa's idea of also turning the issue back to him:  has he been tested?  has he been engaging in safer sex practices if he's been active?

Third, if he decides to break it off because you are positive, remember that that is his choice, not yours, and a reflection of him, not you.   His response is not a measure of your worth.  This isn't necessarily an easy or intuitive thing to do, but you must.  You deserve to be treated well because of who you are, not because you do or do not have an infectious disease.

Lastly, enjoy the moment and time with him for what it is.  I must admit that I too envy all those wonderful feelings you're having at the outset of a new relationship.  Try not to project too many scenarios or expectations.  It just sucks up a lot of time and energy, and can set you up for disappointment.

Edited to add one more comment:  as a mentor of mine once told me, the conversation you are reluctant to have is mostly likely the conversation you really need to have.

Regards,

Henry


« Last Edit: August 27, 2008, 10:58:58 AM by BuckmarkTX »
"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things:
     One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell.
     The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love."
- Butch Hancock, Musician, The Flatlanders

Offline Buckmark

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2008, 10:57:29 AM »
I meant to edit my post above, not reply to it.  Silly me
"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things:
     One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell.
     The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love."
- Butch Hancock, Musician, The Flatlanders

Offline Lisa

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2008, 11:02:29 AM »
Climbing down off my soapbox now......... If he has already had an up-close, and personal experience in this realm, he may be far more accepting than you give him credit for. Let him come, disclose, and see what unfolds. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Even if he isn't ready for such a relationship, you will have gained great insight, and a first step towards being comfortable in your own skin. You GO still! :)
« Last Edit: August 27, 2008, 11:07:20 AM by Lisa »
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Offline woodshere

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2008, 11:04:52 AM »
  Honestly, I think I would rather tell him I can't do a long distance relationship.  What's wrong with that?  It's not so far from the truth - I really do have reservations about those, especially with someone so young.  If we haven't had sex, what business is it of his about my status?


Might I offer a suggestion that you tell him the truth.  The first time is never easy, but it eventually must be done so why not now.  I think the long distance aspect might make it easier as you won't bump into him all over town or worry about who he might tell, etc.  Maybe next time, it won't be so hard.
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline atlq

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2008, 11:27:09 AM »
Might I offer a suggestion that you tell him the truth.  The first time is never easy, but it eventually must be done so why not now.  


It is best Philly. If he is so freaked out about HIV that he has chosen celibacy as a lifestyle, then that may tell you all you need to know.

Best,
 :)
“Keep up the good work....   And God bless you.”
  --  Sarah Palin, to members of the Alaskan Independence Party, 2008

Offline Buckmark

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2008, 11:29:15 AM »
Might I offer a suggestion that you tell him the truth.  The first time is never easy, but it eventually must be done so why not now.  I think the long distance aspect might make it easier as you won't bump into him all over town or worry about who he might tell, etc.  Maybe next time, it won't be so hard.

Excellent advice, Woodsy.  Not only will disclosing truthfully now help one to become more comfortable with doing so in the future, but in doing so one represents their true, authentic self.  Hiding that takes too much energy, and also implies that you have something to be ashamed of, or are somehow a lesser person.  Nonsense, of course, but I think many, many people go through a phase where they beat themselves up for getting infected with HIV.  Let that go on to long, and it can consume you.

Henry
"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things:
     One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell.
     The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love."
- Butch Hancock, Musician, The Flatlanders

Offline Texan38

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2008, 11:46:14 AM »
You've received some excellent and honest advise here. The bottom line is to be honest with him and yourself and if he does decide to walk away please don't let this one experience from having you try again.  The fear of not reaching out and trying to meet someone can be a very lonely life. Please, don't let that happen. Have faith and believe in yourself.

Take Care.  :-*
 
Mark
« Last Edit: August 27, 2008, 11:47:53 AM by Texan38 »
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Offline Philly1972

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2008, 11:58:59 AM »
Thanks to everyone for the advice.  I guess I know what I need to do.  I'm going to let him come visit and find the right time to tell him.  This still f**king sucks!  Instead of butterflies I have anxiety....instead of being so excited for his visit, I'm somewhat dreading it.  Like I said, this is the first time hiv has had a direct interference on my life and I f**king hate it.  I'll keep you posted on what happens.  I know I'm gonna need more support regardless of his reaction - if he walks away, I'm going to be crushed....if he doesn't, I'm going to have doubts whether I can put him through this.  I need to try not to think about it because it is consuming me and I haven't done any work today.  Thanks again everyone!

Offline David_CA

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2008, 01:45:29 PM »
Thanks to everyone for the advice.  I guess I know what I need to do.  I'm going to let him come visit and find the right time to tell him. This still f**king sucks!  Instead of butterflies I have anxiety....instead of being so excited for his visit, I'm somewhat dreading it.  Like I said, this is the first time hiv has had a direct interference on my life and I f**king hate it.  I'll keep you posted on what happens.  I know I'm gonna need more support regardless of his reaction - if he walks away, I'm going to be crushed....if he doesn't, I'm going to have doubts whether I can put him through this.  I need to try not to think about it because it is consuming me and I haven't done any work today.  Thanks again everyone!

I don't think I'd wait 'til he gets there.  It's not really fair to him and won't be any easier on you waiting to find the right time.  Since you two communicate regularly, why not text him a brief message... something like "I couldn't tell you when we met but I'm HIV+".  It may sound like a wussy way out, but it'll be easier on you, and you won't have to try and 'find the right time'.  His response will likely be all you need to know.  It'll save him a potentially wasted trip, keep you from having to deal with his emotions at the moment you're trying to tell him and deal with your own, but mostly it'll be done.  Take care.

David
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2008, 02:06:58 PM »
I didn't lie on purpose -

seriously?
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline woodshere

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2008, 02:16:08 PM »
I don't think I'd wait 'til he gets there.  It's not really fair to him and won't be any easier on you waiting to find the right time.  Since you two communicate regularly, why not text him a brief message... something like "I couldn't tell you when we met but I'm HIV+". 

I agree with David party.  Definitely tell him before coming, but I think this is something I would discuss in a conversation.  Reverse the situation and go back several months, how would you like to get a text or email from someone that read, "Had a great time on our date, btw I am HIV+"  If you have feelings for one another then show respect to him and have a conversation.
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline Philly1972

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2008, 02:24:18 PM »
I thought I had it figured out what I was going to do....now I don't know again.  I hear what you are saying and I was leaning that way earlier as well (to tell him on the phone).  I feel like I owe it to him to tell him face to face and help him deal with his emotions and talk about whatever it is he is feeling....at least be there to give him a hug if he wants one.  He is going to be taking the train down so he can leave right away if he wants to.  I'm going to show him a good time and show him around a city he's never been to so it won't be a total waste.  I thought I would tell him Sunday after seeing how the weekend went.

Offline Philly1972

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2008, 02:30:07 PM »
maybe I feel like he is less likely to reject me if I am standing in front of him and he can see the sincerity in my eyes and how difficult it is for me because of my feelings for him.  Is that selfish?  I've certainly traveled further for dates and it didn't work out.  It's not like he's spending allot of money on a flight.  I'm not that concerned about him "wasting" a trip.

Offline atlq

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2008, 02:35:46 PM »
Philly,

I'm going to have to make it a threesome. I do agree with Woodsy and David. If you tell him first, he will still have the option of saying he would  like to come  and be with you. And he will probably respect you more for being so considerate.

I know this is hard for you (because we've all been there), but being honest (and considerate)is the only anecdote to your anxiety...

Wishing you the best....
“Keep up the good work....   And God bless you.”
  --  Sarah Palin, to members of the Alaskan Independence Party, 2008

Offline Philly1972

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2008, 02:53:34 PM »
I wish I could just leave work right now because I just want to go home and cry.  I'm SO confused.  Through all of this I keep getting sweet text messages from him and it's killing me.  I can't bear the thought of hurting him period....but doing it over the phone when I can't even be there to comfort him makes it feel worse.  What if I paid for his train ticket?  I hate to say it but I'm back to wanting to tell him that a long distance relationship won't work.  At least then it is my decision and I think he will understand and somewhat agree.  I can't "practice" on someone who is so young and sweet....it is going to crush him.

Offline atlq

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2008, 02:56:44 PM »
I can't "practice" on someone who is so young and sweet....it is going to crush him.

I think only one person is being crushed now , and that's you. And the bad part is you are doing the crushing....I feel your pain and I hope this all works out for you....
“Keep up the good work....   And God bless you.”
  --  Sarah Palin, to members of the Alaskan Independence Party, 2008

Offline Philly1972

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #27 on: August 27, 2008, 03:07:43 PM »
I would rather it be me.  I'm the one who got hiv and I'm the one who lied to him about it.  I would bear all the pain if it protected him.  I would rather tell a 22 yr old that it can't work out and we'll stay friends - he's gonna be a little hurt, but I think he'll have to somewhat agree and get over it pretty quickly.  I'm sure he's having doubts about the distance as well.  The alternative - to tell him the truth and then put this big a decision on his shoulders at such a young age.  I can't do that to him.  HIV has already devasted his life once - I can't be responsible for a 2nd time.

Offline next2u

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #28 on: August 27, 2008, 03:08:18 PM »
excuse me if my response is incoherent, ive been smoking a lot over the last few days!

dude, being poz has its pitfalls. disclosure can definitely be one of them. hey dude, i was diagnosed back in sept and have disclosed at least 2 times. both were kind of weird. one guy said he could handle it (he's psycho, still around and can't handle it) and the other guy was kind of weird. moral of the story, after you disclose you still have to put up with the ever after bullshit and dude may have an array of other problems.

so, tell him. and tell him before he gets there. he wants to spend time with you, develop your relationship and possibly get to know your cock more. don't let him walk in your door with those expectations and then tell him you're positive. he probably has a support network (family & friends) where he lives. if he doesn't im sure he'll cope just find and if he needs your support he will contact you or accept your phone calls/support/whatever.

he has already told you he has a problem with hiv & he has indirectly asked you about your std status. you are (for all intents and purposes) leading him on. i have done this, i see the signs. give him the information he needs to make a correct decision. not because i believe it is the right thing to do (which i believe it is but i do not always live up to my ideals) but because it will be easier on you. if you are already struggling with this how can it possibly be easier telling him in person? what if you can't handle his reaction? then send his ass back home 3 1/2 hours away working out your hiv status? nah dude, heed the advice of the others before me, tell him. and yes, there will be other men.  

don't take this comment as me being rude. if dude has a pickle with hiv, let him have it and let yourself be better. i hope this works out well for you and keep us posted on events as they unfold.

best,
d
midapr07 - seroconversion
sept07 - tested poz
oct07 cd4 1013; vl 13,900; cd4% 41
feb08 cd4  694;  vl 16,160; cd4% 50.1
may08 cd4 546; vl 91,480; cd4% 32
aug08 cd4 576; vl 48,190; cd4% 40.7
dec08 cd4 559; vl 63,020; cd4% 29.4
feb09 cd4 464; vl 11,000; cd4% 26
may09 cd4 544; vl 29,710; cd4% 27.2
oct09 cd4 ...; vl 23,350; cd4% 31.6
mar10 cd4 408; vl 59,050; cd4% 31.4
aug10 cd4 328; vl 80,000; cd4% 19.3 STARTED ATRIPLA
oct10 cd4 423; vl 410 ;); cd4% 30.2
jun11 cd4 439; vl <20 ;); cd4% 33.8 <-Undetectable!
mar12 cd4 695; vl ud; cd4% 38.6
jan13 cd4 738; vl ud; cd4% 36.8
aug13 cd4 930; vl ud; cd4% 44.3
jan14 cd4 813; vl ud; cd4% 42.8
may14 cd4 783; vl *; cd4%43.5

Offline next2u

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #29 on: August 27, 2008, 03:14:23 PM »
I would rather it be me.  I'm the one who got hiv and I'm the one who lied to him about it.  I would bear all the pain if it protected him.  I would rather tell a 22 yr old that it can't work out and we'll stay friends - he's gonna be a little hurt, but I think he'll have to somewhat agree and get over it pretty quickly.  I'm sure he's having doubts about the distance as well.  The alternative - to tell him the truth and then put this big a decision on his shoulders at such a young age.  I can't do that to him.  HIV has already devastated his life once - I can't be responsible for a 2nd time.

dude, people who are exposed to shit and overcome it in life can become better people. let him deal with and don't lie about it. but if lying about it helps you out of this situation and doesn't do him any harm than fuck it, do it. but this could be a good experience for you to disclose and deal with your reaction & his. if you aren't ready then do what is best for both of you. remember, the more time you beat around the bush the more emotional investment you both put into this.

and as far as you putting big decisions on his shoulder, fuck all that bs. dude, we all have to deal with the possibility of hiv from our first sexual interaction. if anything, you are doing him a favor by telling him. you are not helping him by making up excuses or lies, that is all for yourself. hiv devastates lives, you are not responsible for falling for someone and having hiv. you are responsible for what you tell him and what you allow him to believe.

best,
d
« Last Edit: August 27, 2008, 03:22:38 PM by next2u »
midapr07 - seroconversion
sept07 - tested poz
oct07 cd4 1013; vl 13,900; cd4% 41
feb08 cd4  694;  vl 16,160; cd4% 50.1
may08 cd4 546; vl 91,480; cd4% 32
aug08 cd4 576; vl 48,190; cd4% 40.7
dec08 cd4 559; vl 63,020; cd4% 29.4
feb09 cd4 464; vl 11,000; cd4% 26
may09 cd4 544; vl 29,710; cd4% 27.2
oct09 cd4 ...; vl 23,350; cd4% 31.6
mar10 cd4 408; vl 59,050; cd4% 31.4
aug10 cd4 328; vl 80,000; cd4% 19.3 STARTED ATRIPLA
oct10 cd4 423; vl 410 ;); cd4% 30.2
jun11 cd4 439; vl <20 ;); cd4% 33.8 <-Undetectable!
mar12 cd4 695; vl ud; cd4% 38.6
jan13 cd4 738; vl ud; cd4% 36.8
aug13 cd4 930; vl ud; cd4% 44.3
jan14 cd4 813; vl ud; cd4% 42.8
may14 cd4 783; vl *; cd4%43.5

Offline Buckmark

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #30 on: August 27, 2008, 03:17:30 PM »
A few more thoughts on what you have recently posted.  It all just my opinion, harsh as this may sound, and so you have to make your own decision. 

Quote
I thought I would tell him Sunday after seeing how the weekend went.

This sounds like a really bad idea.  It will be on your mind the whole weekend.  He will sense something is wrong, and that you are preoccupied.

Quote
maybe I feel like he is less likely to reject me if I am standing in front of him and he can see the sincerity in my eyes and how difficult it is for me because of my feelings for him.  Is that selfish?

I can see where you are coming from here, but look at your next post:

Quote
I've certainly traveled further for dates and it didn't work out.  It's not like he's spending allot of money on a flight.  I'm not that concerned about him "wasting" a trip.

This is selfish!  How do you think he'd react if he heard you say this?

Quote
I can't bear the thought of hurting him period....but doing it over the phone when I can't even be there to comfort him makes it feel worse.  What if I paid for his train ticket? 

I don't often (ever?) call people out here.  Can't bear the thought of hurting him?  Given your previous posts, I think that what you are really concerned about it how much this will hurt you.  He's a big boy, and can make his own decisions -- but he needs full disclosure from you in order to do so.

Paying for his train ticket won't change his reaction, and would be like trying to buy his affection.  You don't need to do that. 

Quote
I hate to say it but I'm back to wanting to tell him that a long distance relationship won't work.  At least then it is my decision and I think he will understand and somewhat agree.  I can't "practice" on someone who is so young and sweet....it is going to crush him.

This isn't just a lie to him but a lie to yourself.  The truth will set you free.  This isn't practice, this is life.  You could be passing up Mr. Right. 

I appreciate how difficult this is for you.  Lots of us have been there.  So go home and have a good cry.  Then give him a call, and tell him.  You need to set the record straight.  And you'll feel a lot better taking control of the situation, rather than just trying to find a way out of it.

Cowboy up, man!

Henry
"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things:
     One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell.
     The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love."
- Butch Hancock, Musician, The Flatlanders

Offline atlq

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #31 on: August 27, 2008, 03:18:41 PM »
I would rather tell a 22 yr old that it can't work out and we'll stay friends - he's gonna be a little hurt, but I think he'll have to somewhat agree and get over it pretty quickly.  I'm sure he's having doubts about the distance as well.  The alternative - to tell him the truth and then put this big a decision on his shoulders at such a young age.  I can't do that to him.  HIV has already devasted his life once - I can't be responsible for a 2nd time.


O.K. then sweetie...its not the route I would go, but then maybe I've forgotten what that first time having to reveal is like....but stop beating yourself up OK?..... ;)
“Keep up the good work....   And God bless you.”
  --  Sarah Palin, to members of the Alaskan Independence Party, 2008

Offline Philly1972

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #32 on: August 27, 2008, 04:04:53 PM »
God - you all make so much sense.  Next2u - for someone who smoked allot, you give out really smart advice.  I'm being selfish and I see that...I'm trying to make up excuses for how I can see him one more time.  It's been a while since I've been like that with someone and I guess I just wanted it for a couple more days before it was over.  I just wanted to see him and hold him and kiss him again and show him a good time.

Quote
He's a big boy, and can make his own decisions -- but he needs full disclosure from you in order to do so.

He's not really a big boy...he's a kid.  Although mature for his age - he is still a kid.  I can't imagine being faced with a decision like that at 22 - whichever his decision, he is most likely going to look back on it for the rest of his life and wonder if he made the right one.  If I make it for him, then he'll get over it, we will probably stay friends and maybe someday things will be different.

God today sucks....I can't leave work and go cry like I want to.  I tried shutting my door and had my boss knocking and I had to say my allergies were bothering me.

Thanks again everyone....this is the hardest thing I've had to deal with thus far related to my hiv.  I hope it works out.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #33 on: August 27, 2008, 06:31:05 PM »
Jesus, just to to AictionsAIDS on Arch street and talk to someone about this.  Internet help is only but so helpful.  Maybe they can call them anonymously... this has being going on for months.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline Philly1972

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #34 on: August 27, 2008, 08:02:48 PM »
Philly,
This has NOT been going on for months.  I met this guy last week.  I'm having a real and serious NEW issue here and you don't even know what it is yet are adding your 2 cents.  Please do me a favor and keep the negativity to yourself.  I have enough people who are offering real advice and can do without yours. 

Thanks.

Offline atlq

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #35 on: August 27, 2008, 08:08:59 PM »
Well,

 I hope you took Henry's advice and cleared your head at home a bit...
“Keep up the good work....   And God bless you.”
  --  Sarah Palin, to members of the Alaskan Independence Party, 2008

Offline Philly1972

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #36 on: August 27, 2008, 08:13:39 PM »
well I was cooking dinner and it hit and I suddenly started crying....I turned everything off and cried for a good 30 mins.  He's working so I can't call him.  But I think I know what I'm gonna do now.  I'll keep ya posted - thanks again for all the advice.

Offline atlq

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #37 on: August 27, 2008, 08:16:26 PM »
no prob....
“Keep up the good work....   And God bless you.”
  --  Sarah Palin, to members of the Alaskan Independence Party, 2008

Offline sharkdiver

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #38 on: August 27, 2008, 09:18:38 PM »
Dude:
let me get this straight..
you met someone last week
he is much younger than you
you think you are falling in love
you pretty much lied to him about your status
now you are freaking out

I used to have codependent issues when I was younger but fortunately I met a wonderful therapist at the time that pretty much said, "unless you are comfortable with your self, truthful with yourself and like yourself, you won't be able to love and support someone in a healthy way."  You know what? it was the truth and it took a long time for me to be in a comfortable that I could do that.

Have you ever considered seeing a counselor? It might be a good idea.

Sharkie

Offline Philly1972

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #39 on: August 27, 2008, 09:25:28 PM »
No, you really don't get it.  It is not that simple.  But that's ok, others are helping me that do.  Yes, I have a therapist.

Thanks.

Offline sharkdiver

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #40 on: August 27, 2008, 09:29:56 PM »
is he celebate or practice abstinence?  there is a big difference.


Offline Philly1972

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #41 on: August 27, 2008, 09:47:34 PM »
he says that he practices celebacy.  what is the difference?

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #42 on: August 27, 2008, 11:00:18 PM »
1. When someone uses the term "clean" I cringe. It gives me a jellified, condensed-soup plop of their character that is not at all pretty. Your friend might be very mature for his age, but his vernacular needs work.

2. Don't worry, I am not going to engage you beyond this post. I just saw all the sidestepping and hand holding, and it started to get to me. You did not have sex with him without disclosure. That's a good thing, especially if the uninfected party is seriously HIV phobic. That's the stuff that, right or wrong, can get your name and face in the paper. Trust me, greatest fear? That should be on the list. HIV stigma is unwarranted and stupid and frustrating beyond belief. But it's there, and in the gay community, it's rampant. Especially among young guys who consider it another sign of being an old. They might see it as inevitable, and live party lives accordingly, but like laugh lines, they don't want them to happen yet.

3. This attachment is WAY over the top for knowing the guy a week or two. Hurts to hear that, but it's true. Crying at work until the boss knocks at your door? Negative tress impacts HIV progression. If you are the cause for your stress, then you need to work that out, therapist or no. It's simply creepy to have such a negatively impactful attachment this early on. Unless that's the way you have always lived your dating life, in which case more power to you. And even your strong attachment has thus far not allowed you to be fundamentally honest with the kid about your status.

Each moment  you continue dragging this relationship through your issues using deceit and omission, you are poisoning it. You are. Having HIV takes a lot more bravery than simply admitting to yourself. You have to risk - and learn to accept - unwarranted and unfair rejection based on that status. Or you can lie to someone for a while, beat yourself up accordingly, and drag the corpse of an aborted opportunity around like a grieving gorilla mother. It's your call. How much pain do you think you deserve? Again, your call.

You say that the guy is mature (for his age, and we kinda both know what that qualifier means). Well, you are treating him unfairly, by lying to him. Treating him like a child who can't handle the truth. And if he CAN'T handle the truth, he is not for you anyway. HIV is not going to go away. I have heard stories about long term relationships that  went like that. With the positive partner inventing cancer or allergies or something or other to excuse his meds, doctors, behaviour. And almost invariably, got busted at the end. I can't imagine the sense of betrayal the negative partner must feel. Not about the HIV thing, but about not trusting someone you are supposed to trust with important information. What you have with this kid might feel real to him. I urge you to respect that, because it is not real to you. Not so long as you know it's built on a foundation of a lie. An important lie, from what you posted first.

Like I said, I won't be engaging you again. You placed your story on a public message board (for HIV infected people) and I responded when I had the chance to think about it. That's it. Best of luck with the stuff. I hope you get out of this situation what you need, with minimal repercussion.

Seriously not hating

Jonathan
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #43 on: August 28, 2008, 07:33:03 AM »
Philly,
This has NOT been going on for months.  I met this guy last week.  I'm having a real and serious NEW issue here and you don't even know what it is yet are adding your 2 cents.  Please do me a favor and keep the negativity to yourself.  I have enough people who are offering real advice and can do without yours. 

Thanks.

I was not trying to be negative.  I thought this was simply about someone you met months ago at a Circuit Party.  I apologize for making you so defensive.

So, I guess just tell him.  Either that or don't tell him, and live with the wonder of it all.  I don't get so worked up about such things, but I realize you're new to all of this.

But yeah, I guess I'll keep my input to myself considering your unfortunate reply.  Doubly unfortunate as we seem to live in the same location.  Have you gone into AictionAIDS (local ASO) to discuss this issue?

Best of luck,

David
« Last Edit: August 28, 2008, 08:26:23 AM by philly267 »
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline emeraldize

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #44 on: August 28, 2008, 08:12:11 AM »
Hi Philly1972

Aside from the fact that disclosure can be healthy for you, you might want to consider what you would want if you were in this chap's position.

Getting down to the basics. Would you want to take precious recreational time to travel 3.5 hours(actually 7 round trip) to learn you were lied to? Or, would you prefer to be given the option via phone to make the trip as a result of being told the truth?

The Golden Rule makes many decisions easier to make.

Em





Offline Philly1972

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #45 on: August 28, 2008, 09:09:45 AM »
Jonathan,
I hear, agree with and will try to listen to everything you've said.  The only statement I would make to you and others is that I am not in love with this kid after 1 week nor is my attachment over the top.  Bottom line is I like him and for the first time in 4 years, I feel like I've met someone who I could possibly date and maybe have something with.  The tears yesterday, the drama around all this and the call for hand holding is less about him and more about the hiv.  Since I learned I was positive on July 2nd, I haven't cried since July 3rd.  I convinced myself I was ok with this.  Well, I was ok with it so long as it wasn't interfering in my life and now it is.  Yesterday was less about the kid and more about how I was missing out on feeling butterflies and being excited that a new relationship was budding.  HIV was stealing that from me and I was pissed and hurt and confused.

David,
I'm sorry - yesterday was a bad day.  I saw 2 posts from you - neither (I felt) offered advice but just made me feel worse.  Maybe you confused me with someone else.  I've never made a post like this before nor have I been to circuit parties in many many years.  This is all very, very new to me and this is the first time I've ever faced the "disclosure" burden.  I'm sorry I got defensive.  Can we put it behind us?  No, I have not been anywhere but here to discuss this.

Update on the situation is that we talked last night and we both agreed that this really could not go anywhere since we live so far apart and he works weekends - how could we ever get to really know each other if we can never see each other.  OK, a cop out but still the truth.  He is not coming to visit.  We will continue to talk and remain friends and if the situation changes down the road and if it is meant to be it will be.  I will tell him but now I feel I can do so and not hurt him as much since we are not "together" anyway. 

Offline allopathicholistic

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #46 on: August 28, 2008, 09:22:17 AM »
Update on the situation is that we talked last night and we both agreed that this really could not go anywhere since we live so far apart and he works weekends - how could we ever get to really know each other if we can never see each other.  OK, a cop out but still the truth.  He is not coming to visit.  We will continue to talk and remain friends and if the situation changes down the road and if it is meant to be it will be. 

thank Heavens

Offline loop78

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #47 on: August 28, 2008, 09:38:23 AM »
Yesterday was less about the kid and more about how I was missing out on feeling butterflies and being excited that a new relationship was budding.  HIV was stealing that from me and I was pissed and hurt and confused.

I don't think hiv is the one who's stealing all that from you. I believe it's your choice of not disclosing your status what replaced enthusiasm with anxiety.

Don't feel sorry for yourself, Philly! You can still feel all that, only now it will take a little courage. Right now you've delayed taking that step but eventually, you'll have to choose again.

I know it's difficult, but it'll be ok.

Hugs!

Offline woodshere

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #48 on: August 28, 2008, 10:35:17 AM »

Update on the situation is that we talked last night and we both agreed that this really could not go anywhere since we live so far apart and he works weekends - how could we ever get to really know each other if we can never see each other.  OK, a cop out but still the truth.  He is not coming to visit.  We will continue to talk and remain friends and if the situation changes down the road and if it is meant to be it will be.  I will tell him but now I feel I can do so and not hurt him as much since we are not "together" anyway. 

Yeah it is definitely a cop out.  And after rereading this entire thread and learning more details of the situation I have a few pieces of unsolicited advice.  First, disclosing is never going to be easy, but it is a risk that must be taken.  I hope you will be able to do so soon so as not to put yourself through this again.  Second, really and truly this is not about "not hurting" him as much as figuring out a way not to disclose and avoiding the possibility of rejection.  Third, if you become friends do you honestly think he won't be upset that you lied about your status when he first asked you? Fourth, I hope that as a friend you can educate him on the offensiveness some find in the term "clean".  And finally, I hope you discuss this entire episode from the not disclosing to the extreme attachment to someone you met last week with your therapist.
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline Philly1972

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Re: My biggest fear coming true already
« Reply #49 on: August 28, 2008, 11:07:53 AM »
Quote
And finally, I hope you discuss this entire episode from the not disclosing to the extreme attachment to someone you met last week with your therapist.

I'm making an appointment now.

 


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