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Author Topic: Oral: Assessing the risk differences in giving and receiving  (Read 16391 times)

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Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Oral: Assessing the risk differences in giving and receiving
« Reply #50 on: May 05, 2011, 02:33:14 PM »
ok.

Giving your history here I am coming around to thinking you ought to be seeing a therapist or other professional to discuss your consistently unwarranted and excessive fears about HIV. We can't help you with that problem in this setting.

Of course you're going to test negative (again).
Andy Velez

Offline Gonzo87

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Re: Oral: Assessing the risk differences in giving and receiving
« Reply #51 on: May 05, 2011, 02:45:36 PM »
ok.

Giving your history here I am coming around to thinking you ought to be seeing a therapist or other professional to discuss your consistently unwarranted and excessive fears about HIV. We can't help you with that problem in this setting.

Of course you're going to test negative (again).

I've been considering it as well, I won't lie. A lot of it stems from associating specific "symptoms" to potential HIV infection automatically.  I understand fully that no symptoms are HIV or ARS specific, and that certain things can be attributable to a million other factors, but I just have a tendency to automatically assume the worst and associate it with HIV. 

Throughout my history, I would never have any fears regarding a sexual encounter until one of these symptoms pops up, then I'd start to panic.  This was the case with my angular cheilitis, which appeared just over a week after my encounter.  I did my research, and I know that angular cheilitis is only attributable to either HIV infection in the much later stages, or full blown AIDS, yet still it continued to sit in the back of my mind as a "what if" type of thing. 

Of course, there is also the fear of getting someone I love sick due to my irresponsible stupidity.  Now whenever she complains about not feeling too good, I tend to start panicking again out of fear that it's my fault.

Anyways, I understand that my fears are irrational and are heavily attributed to anxiety.  I just want to (hopefully) collect this negative result, and then seek some couselling aftewards...

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Oral: Assessing the risk differences in giving and receiving
« Reply #52 on: May 05, 2011, 06:40:51 PM »
I've made the suggestion. The rest is up to you.
Andy Velez

Offline Ann

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Re: Oral: Assessing the risk differences in giving and receiving
« Reply #53 on: May 05, 2011, 06:41:33 PM »
Gonzo,

Don't bother posting more anxious posts over the weekend. You're going to test negative and to be honest, we're not going to hold your hand over this NO RISK incident.

If you read the Welcome Thread before posting like you're supposed to, you will have read the following posting guideline:

Quote

Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). If you continue to post excessively after one Time Out, you may be given a second Time Out which will last eight weeks. There is no third Time Out - it is a permanent ban. The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.


Please consider yourself warned!

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Gonzo87

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Re: Oral: Assessing the risk differences in giving and receiving
« Reply #54 on: June 03, 2011, 11:05:33 AM »
Hey everyone.  Never got around to posting the result of my test, so here it is:

At 41 days post "exposure" my tests for HIV and Hep B came back NEGATIVE, which is obviously a huge relief for me.

Before I leave leave this forum though (and hopefully FOR GOOD, as I am looking to seek counselling) I have one other questions I'm hoping to get feedback about.

How likely is it that a bad throat infection (heavily swollen around the neck) accompanied by a minor fever is a symptom of ARS?  The same weekend I got my test results I also happened to suck and lick the shoulder/neck of a girl I had just met in a club of unknown status.  I know full well that oral contact with the skin is a no-risk situation, but I just found it to be incredibly coincidental that just over a week later I came down with a bad throat infection.  Is this purely coincidental, and more likely attributed to common bacterial infections like strep throat and bronchitis, therefor I'm just panicking needlessly as usual?

Thanks.  I will now wait in anticipation for one of you to rip into me and potentially give me a 4 week timeout  :P :-[

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Oral: Assessing the risk differences in giving and receiving
« Reply #55 on: June 03, 2011, 05:21:31 PM »
Hey everyone.  Never got around to posting the result of my test, so here it is:

At 41 days post "exposure" my tests for HIV and Hep B came back NEGATIVE, which is obviously a huge relief for me.

Before I leave leave this forum though (and hopefully FOR GOOD, as I am looking to seek counselling) I have one other questions I'm hoping to get feedback about.

How likely is it that a bad throat infection (heavily swollen around the neck) accompanied by a minor fever is a symptom of ARS?  The same weekend I got my test results I also happened to suck and lick the shoulder/neck of a girl I had just met in a club of unknown status.  I know full well that oral contact with the skin is a no-risk situation, but I just found it to be incredibly coincidental that just over a week later I came down with a bad throat infection.  Is this purely coincidental, and more likely attributed to common bacterial infections like strep throat and bronchitis, therefor I'm just panicking needlessly as usual?

Thanks.  I will now wait in anticipation for one of you to rip into me and potentially give me a 4 week timeout  :P :-[
 

From  your own comments in this latest rant it's obvious you already know you weren't at risk. We're not going to continue to indulge you here. If you return again with anymore of these what ifs and other nonsense you are going to get the Time Out about which you have been warned. Cut out the drama and get on with your life.
Andy Velez

Offline Gonzo87

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Re: Oral: Assessing the risk differences in giving and receiving
« Reply #56 on: July 24, 2011, 01:21:04 PM »
Hi everyone,

A few days ago I had another unprotected oral sex exposure with the same "friend" from a few months ago (who I initially tested negative with after the first time), and once again I was the receptive party in the encounter (I didn't go down on her).  I know that between our previous encounter up till now she has been with one other person, but she swears by her life that she's always engaged in protected sex and always uses a condom.  I have very little reason not to believe her as she's been a good friend of mine for quite some time, but of course irrational fears will always be just that: IRRATIONAL.  The only other thing we engaged in was mutual masturbation, where I fingered her vagina and her anus for a few seconds.

Is this still considered to essentially be a 100% safe sex encounter as far as HIV is concerned?  Does today's most recent scientific research still maintain the argument that oral sex is a non-risk sexual activity? Numerous times you have mentioned that the studies were conducted with straight and gay couples (one positive, one negative) and that not one case of infection via unprotected oral sex was reported from these studies.  Does this include couples where the infected party was no on treatment as well?

I'd have to say that my may concern in this case was that she had performed unprotected oral sex on her previous partner only a few weeks (or even a fed DAYS) before me, in which case she could be newly infected herself.  I've read that someone is more prone to infecting someone else when they are newly infected themselves.  Is this true?  

Thanks for your help (and patience).

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Oral: Assessing the risk differences in giving and receiving
« Reply #57 on: July 24, 2011, 01:24:49 PM »
■Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). If you continue to post excessively after one Time Out, you may be given a second Time Out which will last eight weeks. There is no third Time Out - it is a permanent ban. The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.

Offline Gonzo87

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Re: Oral: Assessing the risk differences in giving and receiving
« Reply #58 on: July 24, 2011, 01:29:37 PM »
I'm really just trying to get a more comprehensive understanding of the scientific research done.  Everyone from you lovely folks of this forum, to my own family doctor has told me that the best way to understand HIV and its various risk factors is to get EDUCATED on it.  THis is essentially what I'm trying to do right now.  I want to understand the disease and its various risk factors based on the scientific research conducted, that's it that's all.  If you want to issue me a timeout based on my desire to learn more then so be it.  I'm really not trying to rock the boat here though.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Oral: Assessing the risk differences in giving and receiving
« Reply #59 on: July 24, 2011, 02:11:28 PM »
Well you already know our evaluation about oral sex as we have been through that with you quite thoroughly. And we're not going to go through it all again. You can always re-read the previous exchanges.

We're not here to serve as a reference library. Essentially we focus on specific incidents and experiences and evaluate the level of risk (or non-risk) involved.

So if you are interested in some overall study of HIV, that is something you need to do on your own. We're not here for that.

Your latest oral experience is essentially again a non-risk situation.

Andy Velez

Offline Gonzo87

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Re: Oral: Assessing the risk differences in giving and receiving
« Reply #60 on: July 24, 2011, 02:34:38 PM »
Fair enough and pointt well made.  Your assessmeents of these incidents are based on resent research studies though, correct? I'm not asking for u to provide me with actual references, but rather just aa bit of clarity on how you gathered your information.  Thanks again.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Oral: Assessing the risk differences in giving and receiving
« Reply #61 on: July 24, 2011, 02:40:33 PM »
Fair enough and pointt well made.  Your assessmeents of these incidents are based on resent research studies though, correct? I'm not asking for u to provide me with actual references, but rather just aa bit of clarity on how you gathered your information.  Thanks again.

Responses to concerns are based on up-to-date HIV science along with decades of experience working in the epidemic.

You're welcome.
Andy Velez

Offline Gonzo87

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Re: Oral: Assessing the risk differences in giving and receiving
« Reply #62 on: August 16, 2011, 11:47:54 AM »
Hi everyone,

I know that you have pretty much gotten fed up of me any my paranoia at this point, but unfortunately I just can't shake this recent fear that I have.  Over a month ago I was at a strip club with a couple of friends after a night of drinking, and decided to get a private dance.  Now, I had sobered up quite a bit by that time because we had stopped drinking a couple of hours prior and I ate a huge meal in order to help absorb the alcohol a bit.  I was relatively coherent (I remember most the night in rather vivid detail), but I am starting to question just how responsible my actions were...

I remember getting a few dances from her that included me licking/sucking her nipples, as well as caressing her over her panties.  Now, I even remember her explaining the rules on our way to the private booth, and she even stopped me when I went to touch her underneath her panties.  Yet still, I am convinced that I penetrated her without a condom on at some point and merely forgot about it or blocked out the memory.  I know it seems ridiculous, but I've been losing sleep over it. 

The main reason is because that same night when I got home and "relieved" myself I noticed some blood in my ejaculatory fluid.  It was darkish, and somewhat stringy.  I didn't think much of it when I saw it because I knew I had undergone a physical and HIV test a few weeks prior, and there was nothing that I did that night for me to be alarmed.  Hell, it wasn't until maybe a couple of weeks ago that my brain started going on over drive about the whole thing.  Now I'm thinking though that alcohol might've clouded my judgment and made me forget that I had done something potentially risky. 

I'm really tripping over this and I am just so afraid of getting my partner sick somehow over 1 night of drunken foolishness. I haven't been able to sleep or eat as a result over the past couple of weeks as a result, and I'm abstaining from having sex with my partner in the meantime.

You guys don't have to respond, or you can delete this thread entirely, but I just needed to let it out.  Thanks, and good day to all of your.

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Oral: Assessing the risk differences in giving and receiving
« Reply #63 on: August 16, 2011, 12:05:17 PM »
I sincerely hope you get the help you need. These experiences should not be costing you sleep or causing you anziety.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Gonzo87

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Re: Oral: Assessing the risk differences in giving and receiving
« Reply #64 on: August 16, 2011, 12:35:02 PM »
I sincerely hope you get the help you need. These experiences should not be costing you sleep or causing you anziety.



I agree with you 110%.  It's gotten out of control.  I honestly think I'd be handling better if I actually KNEW I did something risky.  At least I can sit down, evaluate my odds, and just accept whatever my fate is.  In this case though it's nerve racking because I don't even know for certain whether or not I actually DID something to begin with.  I don't know if my fears are legitamate, or if I'm just putting thoughts and scenario's into my head (surely wouldn't be the first time).  I don't possibly see how I could completely wipe something like that out of my memory, yet remember detailed moments of that night such as conversations, what I was wearing, to even what my tab was at the end of the night!  I know that had I actually done something stupid, my mind immediately would've went off as soon as I saw that blood-like substance in my ejac.  For that matter, considering my incredible fear of HIV, I don't see how I would even allow myself to have unprotected sex with a stripper, drunk or not! 

What I do know is that I've been driving myself up a wall about this, even to the point where I've broken down into tears.  I'm forcing myself to go for yet another test just so I can ease my mind, but it's been a difficult road to say the least.  I don't expect any sympathy from anyone because I know it must be just as frustrating to read about this nonsense as it is for me to be typing it.  I just can't keep it to myself as its only been making things harder.

Thank you anyways...

Offline Gonzo87

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Re: Oral: Assessing the risk differences in giving and receiving
« Reply #65 on: August 17, 2011, 06:14:01 PM »
I can't do this anymore...

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Oral: Assessing the risk differences in giving and receiving
« Reply #66 on: August 17, 2011, 06:30:07 PM »
I think it might be wise for you to avoid this and other HIV web sites while you work with a therapist on this irrational fear.

And for the record, you can do this. You can do what you decide you can do. Forgive me if I sound insensitive, but you do realize you are conversing with people who have lived with HIV and AIDS for decades? If we can do that, you can survive the torture of your own fears.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Gonzo87

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Re: Oral: Assessing the risk differences in giving and receiving
« Reply #67 on: August 18, 2011, 11:06:00 AM »
I think it might be wise for you to avoid this and other HIV web sites while you work with a therapist on this irrational fear.

And for the record, you can do this. You can do what you decide you can do. Forgive me if I sound insensitive, but you do realize you are conversing with people who have lived with HIV and AIDS for decades? If we can do that, you can survive the torture of your own fears.



I truly do apologize for this.  I should be more sensitive to the fact that you have all been dealing with this for many years.  I can imagine that hearing rants such as mine can be rather annoying and at times flat out unbearable.  I'm trying really, really hard to get it together and try to shake this worry.  I'm very, very sorry once again...

Offline Gonzo87

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Re: Oral: Assessing the risk differences in giving and receiving
« Reply #68 on: August 18, 2011, 12:00:33 PM »
Hypothetically speaking, if I were infected what would be the likeliness of me infecting another person if they were to perform oral sex on me an they SWALLOWED my ejaculate?

Thanks.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Oral: Assessing the risk differences in giving and receiving
« Reply #69 on: August 18, 2011, 12:11:18 PM »
We're not interested in hypothetical questions. As of now you are NOT HIV positive.

As you have been told ad nauseum, the only confirmed sexual risks for the transmission of HIV are unprotected vaginal and anal intercourse.

I can tell you were are not going to embark on another round of what ifs with you.
Andy Velez

Offline Ann

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Re: Oral: Assessing the risk differences in giving and receiving
« Reply #70 on: August 18, 2011, 12:13:08 PM »
Gonzo,

How many times do you have to be told that oral isn't a risk?

Enough is enough already. I'm giving you that long over-due time out you've been repeatedly warned about. Do not attempt to create a new account to get around your time out because if you do, you will be permanently banned.

Please get yourself a good therapist to deal with your irrational hiv anxiety. We cannot - and will not - help you with that here.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Gonzo87

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Re: Oral: Assessing the risk differences in giving and receiving
« Reply #71 on: August 17, 2012, 11:28:53 AM »
Hi Everyone,

Regrettably I am back with what is likely another unwarranted concern.  About 2 months ago I had an experience with an Asian CSW in a NJ massage parlour.  It was my first, and will be my LAST, experience with a CSW as it was anything but pleasant.  Basically what happened is that a myself along with a few of my friends took a weekend excursion to NJ for a weekend bachelor party.  After a night of drinking they I was "treated" to an old fashioned rub n tug at one of the local all-night massage parlours. 

Now, I no for certain (having confirmed for my friends) that all that was paid for was a handjob, and I distinctly remember her masterbating (no condom) with massage oil for roughly 10-15 minutes.  It was a rather long process because I was afterall intoxicated (not enough that I couldn't get it up however).  It was a rather unpleasant experience that required me to close my eyes and imagine something else just to be able to finish.  When all was said and done she wiped me off with a hot towel and sent me on my merry way.

Now, I was completely at ease with this experience.  Prior to this event I had done my fair share of research on this site (and others) concerning what is considered to be a risk or non-risk, and therefore I was 110% confident that this was a non-risk incident.  I walked back to the hotel (no help was needed), wiped off my penis with a wet face cloth, and called it a night.  The next day I woke up and was still completely ok with everything, pretty much remembering everything in rather vivid detail.

Fast forward to a few weeks later and good ol' anxiety crept up on me again.  I started to panic that perhaps I did more than just a "rub n' tug" and completely forgot about it due to my inebriated state.  Sounds irrational, I know.  You'd pretty much think that having unprotected sex with a CSW is something that would clearly stick out in your mind of all things.  Especially when you remember so many other specifics about the evening.  I decided to get tested (3rd generation HIV 1 & 2 antibody) at the 4 week point just to ease some of my concerns.  The tests came up negative.  I was relieved by this result...temporarily at least.  A few days later my girlfriend developed a very bad case of upper abdominal pain (just below the chest) that resulted in a trip to the ER, and persisted for about 1 1/2 to 2 weeks.  She didn't display any other ARS-specific symptoms. The ER conducted blood tests (not sure for what exactly though), urinalysis, and a variety of x-rays only to find absolutely nothing.  This didn't help to alleviate my concern that perhaps I got her sick though, and perhaps I tested far too early. 

Since then I have been a nervous wreck, trying my best to recall the evening as much as possible.  I've put some crazy ideas into my head, and I know I shouldn't be worried, but I can't help but immediately think "ARS!" concerning my girlfriend's condition, and perhaps it was because of me any my CSW incident.  I personally have not come down with anything even remotely ARS specific during that period (aside for some back pain and a day or two of diahrrea at the 4-5 week mark).  The doctor's told her that it may have been due to burn out...but once again my fears are getting the better of em. 

I have a follow up test scheduled for next week, and I'm scared shitless about it...

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Oral: Assessing the risk differences in giving and receiving
« Reply #72 on: August 17, 2012, 11:39:10 AM »
Again another no risk situation.

Offline Gonzo87

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Re: Oral: Assessing the risk differences in giving and receiving
« Reply #73 on: August 17, 2012, 11:44:38 AM »
Do my girlfriend's symptoms sound like anything ARS-specific (regardless of whether or not I had a risk)? 

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Oral: Assessing the risk differences in giving and receiving
« Reply #74 on: August 17, 2012, 11:48:50 AM »
Did your gf have an exposure?

Offline Gonzo87

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Re: Oral: Assessing the risk differences in giving and receiving
« Reply #75 on: August 17, 2012, 11:53:06 AM »
No. 

I'm asking in general terms though.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Oral: Assessing the risk differences in giving and receiving
« Reply #76 on: August 17, 2012, 02:04:02 PM »
Then there is nothing further to discuss.

Offline Gonzo87

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Re: Oral: Assessing the risk differences in giving and receiving
« Reply #77 on: August 17, 2012, 02:07:06 PM »
I wonder how thorough ER's are with their blood testing.  Wonder if they'd feel inclined to check for possible STD infections as well...

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Oral: Assessing the risk differences in giving and receiving
« Reply #78 on: August 17, 2012, 04:13:39 PM »
I wonder how thorough ER's are with their blood testing.  Wonder if they'd feel inclined to check for possible STD infections as well...

They certainly will if you request them. Expensive stuff at an ER, however.

Unless she's been having sex with someone with an STD, or unless you have omitted any detail like having penetrative sex with someone, the tests would be unnecessary.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Gonzo87

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Re: Oral: Assessing the risk differences in giving and receiving
« Reply #79 on: August 17, 2012, 05:57:02 PM »
Does severe upper abdominal pain for 1-2 weeks without any other flu-like symptoms sound like something that could be ARS related though?

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Oral: Assessing the risk differences in giving and receiving
« Reply #80 on: August 17, 2012, 08:23:14 PM »
Nope
Does severe upper abdominal pain for 1-2 weeks without any other flu-like symptoms sound like something that could be ARS related though?

We access risk here. We do not diagnose symptoms. As you are already well aware.
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Ann

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Re: Oral: Assessing the risk differences in giving and receiving
« Reply #81 on: August 18, 2012, 05:56:32 AM »
Gonzo,

A tug-and-rub is MUCH less expensive than full-on vaginal intercourse, so there's no way a sex worker is going to have vaginal intercourse with a client unless additional money changes hands. You're letting your over-active imagination run away with you yet again.

Have you seen a therapist about your hiv anxiety yet? If not, go find one instead of trying to use us as a cheap alternative.

Keep posting about this latest NO RISK situation and you'll quickly be given a second time out. We're not going to hold your hand again like we have in the past.

PLEASE CONSIDER YOURSELF WARNED!!!!

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

 


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