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Author Topic: Safe Sex Serosorting scientific data censored in USA!  (Read 19674 times)

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Offline bocker3

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Re: Safe Sex Serosorting scientific data censored in USA!
« Reply #50 on: July 31, 2008, 08:01:19 AM »
Individuals like this feed entirely on noteriety.  I think the best thing that we all could do to stop the insane, ignorant, unscientific and deranged postings of this individual is to ignore him.  Let's all stop feeding him and allow him to crawl back into his cave.

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
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Offline Ann

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Re: Safe Sex Serosorting scientific data censored in USA!
« Reply #51 on: July 31, 2008, 09:46:43 AM »
Mike, you're right, we're never going to change Sandor's mind. He's a dangerous individual and it's not surprising he's been banned from most of the internet. Don't be shocked if we follow suit.

However, I'm providing the information below for others reading this thread. You know, people who actually read and comprehend what they're reading.

Free, Socrates might have imbibed the hemlock (he wasn't given much choice) but those who listen to you drink the kool-aide. Here's some of that cited evidence you wanted:

[Dr Duncan Maceller/CDC] The lack of awareness of HIV serostatus has considerable impact among MSM. Several studies suggest that the ongoing HIV epidemic among MSM, is largely attributed to MSM who are unaware of their infection and who unknowingly transmit HIV to their sex and needle-sharing partners.

Although most MSM report testing at least once in their lifetime, many younger minority MSM test less frequently. In fact, one study of 5,600 young MSM, over half reported they only tested twice in their lifetime. As a consequence, many HIV infected MSM are unaware of their infection.

In one study of 1,700 MSM, 18 years of age and older, 25% tested positive. Among those who tested positive, 48% or nearly half were unaware of their infection. This is particularly a problem among minority and younger MSM. For example, in the same study, 79% of the HIV infected MSM who are between the ages of 18 and 24 were unaware of their infection. 67% of the infected black MSM were unaware of their infection. In 48% of the HIV infected, Hispanic MSM were unaware of their infection.


To avoid infection, many MSM who believe them selves to be uninfected, engage in HIV negative serosorting. By that, I mean they choose partners who them selves are thought to be uninfected or they choose to engage in unprotected sex with only those partners who are thought to be uninfected. Several recent studies however suggest that MSM who engage in HIV negative serosorting as their only means of prevention may be at high-risk for infection.

For example, one study evaluated 1,700 MSM who reported testing HIV negative at their last test.
63% of these men disclosed to their new sex partners that they were HIV negative and many of these men also reported that they engage in unprotected sex because they perceive themselves or their partners to be Uninfected or at low risk for infection. However, of the 1,000 MSM who disclosed being HIV negative, 7% actually were infected with HIV and were unaware of their infection and this varied considerably by race.

24% of the black MSM who disclosed being HIV negative to the new sex partners were HIV infected and unaware of it. Among those who were HIV infected and unaware, 41% disclosed a test result that was based on a test that was conducted over a year ago. So, clearly,
MSM who engage in unprotected sex with men who disclose being HIV negative, may be at high risk for HIV because of the high prevalence of undiagnosed infection among MSM who have previously tested HIV negative and because some MSM who engage in HIV negative serosorting may rely on an old test result.

So, MSM should be cautious to avoid infection from a new sex partner and not rely on the fact that some new sex partners disclose that they are HIV negative and they should use condoms consistently with all partners unless they're in a mutual monogamous relationship in which both partners tested HIV negative three months since their last HIV exposure.

http://www2a.cdc.gov/podcasts/media/pdf/HIV_02_051707.pdf

format changes (paragraphs) and emphasis were made by me for the sake of clarity)

Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Peter Staley

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Re: Safe Sex Serosorting scientific data censored in USA!
« Reply #52 on: July 31, 2008, 12:39:17 PM »
Robert -- since both your websites are for-profit and have ads on them, I've removed all the links to them from your postings.  Please don't mention or link to them again, or you will be banned.

The Terms of Membership in these forums state:

"Messages posted to the AIDSmeds.com Forums must not contain marketing information, either from a pharmaceutical company; a healthcare provider (i.e., seeking to provide services to the HIV community); or the manufacturer or distributor of a complementary, alternative, herbal, traditional, and/or surgical treatment approach."

The reason for this is that this website exists only so long as we can sell advertising here.  Therefore, we can't allow pro-bono advertising which we haven't pre-approved.  If you want to advertise on AIDSmeds or POZ, you can contact our sales department. 

Also, you posted some articles more than once in our forums -- that's considered spamming.  If you post any articles more than once again, you will be banned.

Finally, do not attempt to pick a fight with me in these forums about these warnings.  You can send me an email at forums@aidsmeds.com to complain if you wish.  As a rule, the moderators are not permitted to spend their time defending their warnings publicly.  We have found that the only way we can efficiently moderate these forums is to have our warnings complied with immediately.  If we allowed everyone to publicly challenge our warnings, the warnings would lose all their effectiveness, and the forums would quickly become a mess.  Trust me, this rule is applied to everyone here, not just you.

Publicly challenging our warnings will result in an immediate banning from these forums.

Peter Staley
Founder
AIDSmeds.com
« Last Edit: July 31, 2008, 12:46:14 PM by Peter Staley »

Offline A Free Thinker

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Re: Safe Sex Serosorting scientific data censored in USA!
« Reply #53 on: July 31, 2008, 04:42:52 PM »
Hello Peter;

Glad to hear from you.

Safe Sex Serosorting = Having safe sex (condoms) with those of the same HIV status.

So, Peter, WHY do you HATE condom usage and regular HIV testing?


The reason why HIV is STILL here today is because of: NEGLIGENCE, CENSORSHIP, DISCRIMINATION and ACCOUNTING FRAUD - and you and your website excel in all. I have copied your remarks (remarks you made public) which should have been made private. Therefore, I will post your reply at will on my two websites, and any email I deem appropriate to whomever I please. When I send out the email (First to my media contacts) I will include a copy for your records. Fair is only fair.

MY advice to YOU Peter is to FOLLOW your own WARNING! Privacy Warning:  Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If you are HIV positive and disclose this in our forums, then it is almost the same thing as telling the whole world (or at least the World Wide Web). If this concerns you, then do not use a username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post.


If you have any questions or comments, have your lawyers contact me and in the future - THINK BEFORE YOU POST.

Best Regards;
Robert Brandon Sandor
FOUNDER
Serosorting as an HIV Prevention and Harm Reduction Strategy
Brandon's POZ Party - NYC
www.[blocked URL]
www.[blocked URL]

« Last Edit: July 31, 2008, 04:54:14 PM by A Free Thinker »

Offline Peter Staley

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Re: Safe Sex Serosorting scientific data censored in USA!
« Reply #54 on: July 31, 2008, 05:00:16 PM »
This jerk has been banned for ignoring my warnings (he attempted to plug his for-profit websites again), and for threatening us with legal action (I think -- he's almost impossible to understand).

Peter

Offline Winiroo

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Re: Safe Sex Serosorting scientific data censored in USA!
« Reply #55 on: July 31, 2008, 05:58:21 PM »
I had the desire to say something about my discomfort at what I was reading with his posts but prior to this I felt it was likely better not to say anything at all.

I felt that if I had said anything I'd likely have been verbally pummeled.

Now I can just hope that I am not.

Offline YaKaMein

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Re: Safe Sex Serosorting scientific data censored in USA!
« Reply #56 on: July 31, 2008, 06:11:00 PM »
Peter,
I'm glad you had to ban Sandor from posting since he insisted on defying the warnings. While I welcome opposing, provocative views being expressed [good debate and discourse are exciting], his actions/motive were suspect IMHO and pure but dangerous folly. Thanks -YaKaMein
09/11 Endocrine Consult
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Offline Ann

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Re: Safe Sex Serosorting scientific data censored in USA!
« Reply #57 on: July 31, 2008, 08:40:25 PM »
For the record;

Sandor has claimed that I - and now Peter Staley - "HATE condom usage and regular HIV testing" and he has also applied this in blanket statements to all people who work in the field of prevention.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

Peruse the "Am I Infected?" forum and you'll see how the prevention land lies at AIDSmeds.com. We constantly push condom use - have you ever noticed I have three condom and lube links in my signature line? (If not... get reading!)

We recommend yearly hiv testing (twice yearly is better) for any and ALL sexually active adults. We also recommend testing after any incident of unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse. With ANYONE. ANYONE! We don't take stock in so-called "risk groups", because the only real risk group consists of people who have unprotected intercourse. Let's face it, that's a high percentage of the world's population.

(I'm leaving out the risk group of people who share injecting equipment because we're talking about sexual serosorting.)

Serosorting doesn't really matter if you're using condoms. At this point, you'll often see the line "condoms break" trotted out. Well, when condoms are used correctly, they very, very rarely break. Correct condom usage extends beyond making sure there's no air-bubble in the reservoir tip; it also includes ensuring there is plenty of lubrication, the correct storage of condoms and making sure the damned things are IN DATE. Latex degrades when not stored properly or kept in a drawer beyond its use-by date. These details are important and when attended to, guard you against condom failure.

Sandor fails to take human nature into account. For many, the term serosorting is synonymous with "let's fuck without a condom". When people believe they're both hiv negative, why are they going to use condoms in the heat of the sexual moment? Condom use is a mine-field of emotional, social and physical barriers. It's just not a simple thing to expect people to do consistently. Who actually likes condoms? I know I don't. (but that doesn't mean I don't use them with someone I know to be hiv negative.) I've heard of a lot of fetishes, but never a condom fetish. (anybody out there?)

To my mind, (and you're welcome to post a disagreement) Sandor's failing is in his emphasis on serosorting. Serosorting DOES have its place in hiv prevention. That place is amongst those of us who have hiv and KNOW we have hiv.

Serosorting amongst hiv negative people doesn't work for the reasons cited in the CDC podcast I linked to and quoted in my last post in this thread. I won't bore you with a repetition.

Sandor would win a lot more hearts and minds if he were to put his energies into things like helping people negotiate condom use, helping people use condoms correctly, or pushing for the development of microbicides and/or (the holy hiv-grail of) a vaccine. But no, he chooses to put his energy into serosorting for the hiv negative, something that is doomed to increase the rates of hiv infection. Because human nature is what it is.

Serosorting is the red herring of hiv prevention.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Safe Sex Serosorting scientific data censored in USA!
« Reply #58 on: July 31, 2008, 08:56:29 PM »
.. and hence why Mr. Sandor wasn't permitted to hold his "symosiums" at NYC LGBT community center, among other places.  I lovely "google" experience with his name will show everyone here what the "tea" is with this man.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Winiroo

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Re: Safe Sex Serosorting scientific data censored in USA!
« Reply #59 on: July 31, 2008, 09:59:31 PM »
Thank you Ann. You covered the body of my discomfort.

Whoa, that sounded strange.

I'll try again.
Ummm you said in a better way what I was uncomfortable with on the subject.

<heavy sigh>  My brain....

Offline loop78

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Re: Safe Sex Serosorting scientific data censored in USA!
« Reply #60 on: August 01, 2008, 03:01:17 PM »
HIV + serosorting: a pozzie having sex with another pozzie

HIV - serosorting: someone who thinks is negative having sex with someone else who also thinks is negative

I think this puts things into perspective ;)

 


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