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Author Topic: Mediterranean, anyone?  (Read 19214 times)

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Offline aztecan

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  • 29 years positive, 57 years a pain in the butt
Mediterranean, anyone?
« on: July 23, 2008, 11:47:59 PM »
I don't know if this is the right spot for this thread, but it kinda fits in several areas and I figured the people here might actually get more out of it than in other spots.

If I'm wrong, I'm sure they'll move it.

This is about a recent article on the AIDSMeds email updates I get regarding which diet works best for folks with HIV.

http://www.aidsmeds.com/articles/hiv_diet_fat_1667_14949.shtml

Actually, they are saying the Mediterranean diet works best for just about everyone, pozzie or not.

The reason I am posting this is many of us, me especially, are working on keeping our lipids out of the stratosphere and any advice or assistance is appreciated.

I say this because I got the printout of my recent lipid panel. EEP!

As an example, my LDL cholesterol, which is supposed to be less than 130, was 80 when last checked (before I stopped the Pravastatin).

This week's results - 211.  :o :o :o

I know I can drop my cholesterol with a low-fat diet. I also know it is unlikely I can maintain a low-fat diet for any real length of time.

Meatless meals and tofu are fine on occasion, but I just get too tired and weak if I don't have some fat - or something with more substance - from somewhere.

So, I started changing my diet this evening. I had boneless, skinless chicken breast, sliced into bite size medallions, and sauteed in extra virgin olive oil along with onion, mushrooms, herbs and spices, chopped Italian tomatoes, sliced patty pan squash and the juice of one lemon.

I served this with steamed rice (OK, so I haven't converted to brown rice yet), fresh green beans from my garden and collard greens simmered till tender and served with a drizzle of balsamic vinegar.

So, I am going to give this a shot to see how many different ways I can include fish, lean meats, lots of vegetables and whole, gluten-free grains like quinoa.

I'll let you know how it goes.

HUGS,

Mark
« Last Edit: July 23, 2008, 11:49:53 PM by aztecan »
"May your life preach more loudly than your lips."
~ William Ellery Channing (Unitarian Minister)

Offline sharkdiver

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2008, 01:46:29 AM »
so uh.. Mark


When are you gonna cook for me?

 :)
Sharkie

Offline smalltown66

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2008, 09:24:41 AM »
My Doc also suggested the Mediterranean diet for me.
The only thing he told me was very strict limitations on red meat,
and use more Olive oil for cooking.
I have been meaning to look up the detailed specifics. Thanks for the link.

I'm gonna try it too! Good luck!

Bon Appetite

Smalltown66
Lifting the weight of the world sure is easier with others with the same goal.

Offline bear60

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2008, 11:39:21 AM »
It sounds like a winner Mark. I hope this "way of eating" (not a diet) works for you.
We eat similar.
Poz Bear Type in Philadelphia

Offline cayucosguy

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2008, 01:17:33 PM »
Just remember that Extra Virgin Olive Oil (EVOO for you Rachel fans) is not recommended for cooking at med-high heat and above.  Use only regular olive oil for high temperature cooking.

Good luck with the diet, Mark!  I've been trying to stick with the same thing, but finding it difficult as I have limited access to fresh veggies.

Offline BT65

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2008, 08:30:22 AM »
I've been seeing the new Red Lobster ad that advertises "Mediterranean" tastes right now.  It looks pretty good; not sure if this is the same thing you're going to have a go at Mark.  But, good luck.
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline J.R.E.

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2008, 08:59:42 AM »

 I started changing my diet this evening. I had boneless, skinless chicken breast, sliced into bite size medallions, and sauteed in extra virgin olive oil along with onion, mushrooms, herbs and spices, chopped Italian tomatoes, sliced patty pan squash and the juice of one lemon.

I served this with steamed rice (OK, so I haven't converted to brown rice yet), fresh green beans from my garden and collard greens simmered till tender and served with a drizzle of balsamic vinegar.

So, I am going to give this a shot to see how many different ways I can include fish, lean meats, lots of vegetables and whole, gluten-free grains like quinoa.

I'll let you know how it goes.

HUGS,

Mark



Good luck Mark. I've also noticed/read that news article and was doing a little more research myself on it. It grabbed my interests.  I got to do something here !!

Good luck----Ray
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

 As of 8/2514,  t-cells are at 402, Viral load <40

 Current % is at 11%

  
 62 years young.

Offline lipoenvy

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2008, 06:46:25 PM »
I'm all for a Mediterranean diet, but I would caution that this particular study was deeply flawed.  What qualified as a "low-fat" diet in this study derived 30% of calories from fat (compare Dean Ornish's recommended 10%), and participants on the "Atkins diet" were encouraged to use plant foods as much as possible (as if anyone goes on an Atkins diet to be a vegetarian).

See Ornish's comments in "The Never-Ending Diet Wars":

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-dean-ornish/the-never-ending-diet-war_b_113366.html

Of course, all carbs are not equal, just as all fats are not equal.  While you're preparing to make the switch to brown rice, whole-wheat couscous is quick to prepare, very welcome when you don't have all day to cook.

It's somewhere between a challenge and a bitch trying keep weight in line (to gain it in my case, lose it in others' case, preferably the right kind of weight in the right places) while countering our beloved medications' tendency to raise bad lipids and glucose.  I sure wish I had been able to tolerate Reyataz.

My triglycerides just came in at over 300 after being not much over 100 for a long time.  I'm finally substituting olive oil and balsamic vinegar for butter on bread.  I miss you, Challenge Butter, I really do.  But I do try to mazimize monounsaturated fats.  For optimal health, eat nuts often.  --What?  My naturopath told me to.

Why am I going on and on and on?  Your food plan sounds good to me, Mark.

lipoenvy


Offline aztecan

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  • 29 years positive, 57 years a pain in the butt
Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2008, 02:04:53 PM »
Hey Lipoenvy,

I know no "diet" is a cure-all. I think a change in my way of eating, as Joel put it, is more what I am after.

My low-fat diet was indeed very low fat. The problem is I can't survive on that. I would be unable to function.

As for the Couscous, that is out of the question because I am gluten intolerant. I can eat no wheat, oats, rye or barley or any derivative thereof.

So, for me its brown rice, hummus and tahini. I am lucky though, because I like those things.

I wish I could take Reyataz too, but I must also take a PPI for my GERD, so Reyataz is not in the offing either.

As our dear Alan said, it is rather like building a house of cards. I always worry which misstep will bring the whole thing down.

HUGS,

Mark
"May your life preach more loudly than your lips."
~ William Ellery Channing (Unitarian Minister)

Offline alberche

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2008, 03:18:53 PM »
Well... mediterranean diet... is a lot of things.

I live in Spain and here med-diet is the standard, even though things are changing now due to fastness of life and there's much more people than before on fast food, chinese food and things alike. Governement is concerned about the impact of all this, specially on children's health... and is doing campaings, in fact, all european countries are.

Despite of it, here we use to eat a wide variety of food, this changes also depending on regions and, if you compare Portugal, France, Spain, Italy and Greece, you will find lots of differences in the way of cooking, but, basicaly, main ingredients are the same:

Fish, Chicken, Turkey, Snails, Red meat, Wine, Vegetables, Legumes, Fruits, Cereals, Olive oil, Cheese, Yoghourt, Spices, Garlic, Persil, Thym, Onions, Oregan, Tomatoes, Potatoes, Rice, Mushrooms, Marine Salt, Pasta and dried fruits.

Fish and meats are usually cooked on boiling water, or in wine or beer, with some spices, and no fat added. They can also be steam-cooked or made in the oven. Try to not use too much salt. Avoid fried meat or fish.

Vegetables can be cooked in boiling water, in the oven or rusted in a barbecue, specially egg plants, asparagus, tomatoes, potatoes, broccoli, mushrooms, sprouds... and you can dress them with a little of olive oil, vinegar or lemon juice, and a bit of salt or powdered black pepper, or aromatic herbs.

Rice can be white rice, simply prepared with water, salt, oregan and thym, or you can prepare it cooked mixed with sea food and other vegetables.

Pasta is a well known friend, there's no need of oily sauces, you can just use fresh tomatoes, stirred and fresh, with some aromatic herbs and a little bit of olive oil. You can also prepare it with just a little trickle of olive oil and fresh basil and, if you dare, a little piece of garlic in very tiny slices.

And there's that marvelous thing from our southern neighbours in Africa, called cuscus, wich is wheat semole, and is prepared with the steam surging from the vegetables and meat that are being cooked to be mixed with it at the end. Cuscus can also be eaten alone, or with dired fruits (dates, raisings) and sliced almonds.

Pork: from here there are a lot of different foods, from fresh meat to ham like spanish serrano o bellota or italian parma, as well as sausages, and a wide variety of salamis, chorizos and so on... the secret? eat it from time to time, with bread, or vegetables, or use little pieces to dress pasta or rice or salads. These dried and preserved meats were a way to keep meat edible during all winter time in the past, now you can take profit of a wide variety of textures and flavours and enjoy it twice in a month with not major complaint for your LDL and HDL balance.

We also eat other kinds of meats like rabbit, sheep, duck and and turkey. Meats are always prepared in the simplest way, not heavy or creamy sauces at all.

One secret: the night before cooking, take the meat (whatever it is) and put it in a bowl, fill in with some red or cooking wine (bear or cider are good too!!), some pepper, onions, garlic, a bit of salt, some aromatics like rosmarinus, thym, minth... and let it inside the refrigerator all night long. The day after, it is just as simple as put all that in a marmite, pan or pot and give it some fire until it's well done.

Fish: mackerels, salmon, trut, tunafish, octopus, crabs, shrimps, mussel, sardines... the list is endless... they are also prepared very simply, roasted, in the oven, or cooked in white wine or beer. Dill and Basil, as well as minth, match very well with fish!!! Serve with boiled potatoes, rice, pasta or salad, or simply alone with a good piece of fresh and crusty bread.

Salads: you can use letuce, tomatoes, onions, black or green olives, almonds, nuts, wallnuts, sesame seeds, rucula, endives, spinachs... and a wide variety of leafs: green, red, even bluish... you can add white tender cheese, cooked eggs, tuna fish or slices of turkey or chicken meat. All that dressed with lemon juice or Modena vinegar, and a little of olive oil.

Fruits: all the berries, apples, pears, peach, plums, grapes, grenades (it has lots of antioxidants), cherries, kiwis, oranges, avocados, mangoes, bananas, figs, melon, watermelon... and a long, long list. Long enogugh as to not repeat kinds of fruits from a week to another.

And, a very important ingredient: drink 100 ml of red wine every day. Those of you with a very busy liver can change wine for red grape juice with no sugar added, the spanish word for it is "mosto", I don't now the english term.

Olive oil: virgin, it means, the very first oil obtained when the first compression of olives is made. There are many kinds of olives, thus many kinds of oils. Some olive oils are better for fish, some other for meat, some other for salads.

If you think of friying things, olive oil keeps better at high temperatures than sesame or corn oils, but you should not reutilize it.

And, another dish that never is out a good mediterranena cuisine: soups!!! legume soup such as lentile soup, or fish soup (you can use for that those parts of fish usualy not eaten such as the head or the tail, there's a lot of gelatine, thus proteine in there), or chicken soup. For the soups cooking is very simple: meat or fish, water enough, some vegetables or legumes, no need of oil added if you are using meat, but you can add a little spoon of oil if only using vegetables or a slice of ham or chorizo as well -specially good in legume soup-, a bit of salt, some spices (try until you find the mix you like the most), onions (they get sweet and smooth and are very digestive), and let it cook slowly.

Well, that's it more or less. The abstract is: fresh ingredients, no fat added, clean meats, preferably fish or chicken or turkey, cook it simple, eat lots of fruits, and use dried fruits to dress salads or as apperitive instead of cookies and cakes.

The most of carbs you will eat in this way are low pace carbs, it means very little sugar, so it will give you long term energy. Proteines are also present, clean protein from red meat simply cooked, or sea proteine, which also contains selenium, vitamines, and essencial fatty acids. Fiber: lots of vegetables and fruits. Vitamines in legumes and fruits also. Red wine is good because of tanines and polyphenols.

Cooking all this is simple, you can have a good meal in half an hour or so. There's no need of learning complicated recipes, and, at less here, basic ingredients are not too expensive. If you are creative and organize well, this could be even cheaper than fast food.

Hugs!!

 ;)




love is blindness...  a wonderful song!

Offline aztecan

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  • 29 years positive, 57 years a pain in the butt
Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2008, 11:04:01 PM »
Hey Alberche,

Thanks for the information! Most everything you mentioned sounds just great to me.

The problem with the American diet is we eat far too much fatty meats, too much ground beef, too much cheese and other dairy and, basically, too much!

I think you have given many details to what we have been referring to as a Mediterranean diet that will prove helpful.

There are a few things I have added because of regional differences but I think we all do that. I am experimenting with adding nopalitos to some dishes. That is cactus, usually peeled and sliced thinly.

I also add chile and other peppers to just about everything. There is no life without my peppers.

Since I can't eat wheat, oats, rye or barley, I concentrate on other whole grains which are somewhat less well known, such as millet, quinoa, buckwheat and corn.

I agree, legumes are a great addition to the meal. I really like pinto beans and blackeyed peas.

I also will add rice pasta to the meals once in a while, and sometimes have periods when I focus a lot on Thai food because it is mostly gluten free but amazingly low fat, except the cocoanut soup, which I love.

I love to eat and have learned to love to cook, so I could go on forever.

But thanks again for the input. Bon appetit!

HUGS,

Mark
"May your life preach more loudly than your lips."
~ William Ellery Channing (Unitarian Minister)

Offline lipoenvy

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2008, 12:23:57 PM »
I'm curious - do you find that potatoes, tomatoes and peppers aggravate the "creaky joints"?  I think I notice some increase in my arthritis when I eat them, but not consistently.

Offline alberche

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2008, 12:35:56 PM »
Dear Mark,

Thank you!, well, I assume some things in my english could be funny for you all, but I hope the principal of it is understandable ;-)

Yes,  I totally agree: one of the points is learning to cook, even in simple ways. I love it. I am not a professional cooker, but I like to try and discover new things. The time I spent cooking is relaxing and in some degree I see it as a way to take care of myself, which is important for me.

In addition, I live all alone in my appartment, and I have no much alternatives to the need of taking care of myself... so, cooking is a nice way to do it, and also makes me have a routine and a discipline that helps a lot in those bad days anyone of us could have from time to time.

From time to time I go to England due to my job, and during the first times I was there, I was surprised to learn that eating prepared fast food could be cheaper than buying fresh food (even not too expesive things such as cereals, rice, chicken, eggs, pasta or salads) and cooking it at home... i.e., fruits are very very expensive!!!

So, the most of obese people I saw was people with not too much pounds in their pockets... they can pass all day with fried chicken and chips, or fish and chips (a classic!!!), powered with lots of mayonnaise -or something alike...- or kebabs or fallafels and similars... this was astonishing for me... here, it is still cheaper to go to the supermarket and buy fresh food to cook it at home, and that is very important.

I think in the States it should be similar to UK, particularily in big cities... and that's a big challenge for people with HIV, because we usually do not have too much money to spend!

Hugs!!!

 ;)

love is blindness...  a wonderful song!

Offline weasel

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2008, 01:43:02 PM »

I'm curious - do you find that potatoes, tomatoes and peppers aggravate the "creaky joints"?  I think I notice some increase in my arthritis when I eat them, but not consistently.

[/quote]

Hey  Alberche , I eat almost the same as you ! My MOM  was   from  Calabrea  Italy  ,  she worked as a dietitian at at Hallbrook Sanitarium .

 Mom taught us how to cook  early on , and I have always  perfer ed MY  food over eat out . Even the most  expensive  restraints

 seem  to be in need of a cook !

  My partner has PICKED  over three hundred TOMATOES  out of the garden so far , He freezes them !


  I love  " OLIULLE "   , garlick ,olive oil ,always EVOO ! , mixed with spaghetti !   YUM !


  I hardly ever eat out !

  Check out the people standing in line at  Kentucky Fried Chicken , they are  OBESSE !
 
   All of them !

  Just cooking at home is way better than oil soaked crap at McDowell's !

 As far as the quote :  I do not even think eating fresh tomatoes , potatoes , or peppers could ever be bad for your joints !

 OH I must go pick some peppers , so I can have a fried pepper and egg sandwich !  YUM YUM

P.S. Wish I had a printer , I would send your post to all my Friends that think they have to be smart to cook good food !

  OH and I love sauces ,made with olive oil ,butter , wine ,mushroom ,cream , YUM YUM again !

                                                                                                                         Karl
" Live and let Live "

Offline alberche

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2008, 02:11:23 PM »
Dear Karl,

My mother also showed me and my brother how to cook since we were little children. My father also knows how to cook, and cook he does!!! he's a magnificent cook!!!

"All i Oli", as we call it in Spain ("all i oli" is from catalan, the other main language in Spain: spoken in Catalonia, Valencia, Balearic Islands... about a 25% of total spanish population has it as mother language instead of castilian spanish), means "garlic and oil".

I also love it. The secret to not too much boost your blood lipids is using it in little amounts, just to add some flavour to meats -steaks-, pastas or to a fresh, red and delicious sliced tomato!!! With some cheese and bread it is also delightful... but totally a big sin, to be done very sporadically!!!, just to don't forget we still are human beings and paradise exists, but hell is funnier...  :P

Catalans has lots of ways to use it in their cuisine!.

I thing I do many days at mid-morning time break when at job, is to order at my job centre's cafeteria a toasted bread slice with a bit of all i oli, or with smashed tomato, a bit of garlic and a trickle of olive oil. If bread is a bit roasted and still hot or warm, it is simply delicious, specially when you didn't have time enough to take a good breakfast before leaving home.

It could be useful also to take pills needed to be taken with some food when out of home.

And as you said, nothing compares to eat at home, own cooked!!! and even better when shared with friends!!!

Hugs!!! and bon appetit!!!

love is blindness...  a wonderful song!

Offline OutOfDarkness

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2008, 07:13:08 PM »
Mmmmm, I am hungry and I just ate my dinner.  Thanks for the ideas!
2000 - seroconverted
2005 - cd4 350, VL 113,000
3/06 - started sustiva/truvada
3/08 - cd4 1,300 VL >50(undet.)

Offline aztecan

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  • 29 years positive, 57 years a pain in the butt
Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2008, 10:14:22 PM »
I'm curious - do you find that potatoes, tomatoes and peppers aggravate the "creaky joints"?  I think I notice some increase in my arthritis when I eat them, but not consistently.


I've not noticed it myself. I have heard something about tomatoes, but I will need to do some research before I can say exactly what.

I think I am going to move to Spain so Alberche can cook for me. Everything he brings up sounds just delicious.

As for food being cheaper at the fast food joints here in the U.S., not really.

OK, there are the specials, like three tacos for $4 at Taco Bell.

But for the most part, eating out is at least as expensive and usually more so than cooking at home and no way is it as healthy to eat out.

As Weasel said, nothing beats home cooking.

HUGS,

Mark
"May your life preach more loudly than your lips."
~ William Ellery Channing (Unitarian Minister)

Offline fearless

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2008, 10:11:20 PM »
Good luck with the new eating habits Mark.
I grew up with Sicilians and Calabrians so love southern italian cuisine, and meditteranean food generally.
Just last night my new man took me out to a Spanish tapas bar for my birthday. It was beautiful. We had menestra, papas bravas, champignons, paella balls, bread, olive oil and aoili. And, of course lots of sangria. YUM, YUM, YUM.
Be forgiving, be grateful, be optimistic

Offline Robert

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2008, 02:14:53 AM »
here in the states home-cooked meals are still cheaper than even fast food. 

Quote
OK, there are the specials, like three tacos for $4 at Taco Bell.

Well, for that $4.00 I can buy a pound of linguine, and with some tomatoes and with a little olive oil and garlic and basil and onion (and about 1/8 pound of hamburger) I can have a great dinner for 2 with plenty left over.

Forget its low nutritional value/taste. Even fast food is too expensive for my taste.

robert
..........

Offline penguin

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2008, 05:38:43 AM »
I've not noticed it myself. I have heard something about tomatoes, but I will need to do some research before I can say exactly what.

some people believe that solanaceous plants (nightshade family) like tomatoes potatoes, peppers etc can cause arthritis flares. they contain and alkaloid called solanine in their leaves and roots which (i think) helps protect them against insects. This gets neutralised in the digestive process when we eat them -  but there are some theories that people with various types of arthritis may be missing the part of the digestive mechanism that makes solanine non-toxic to us/experience an inflammatory response to these chemicals

there isn't really any convincing evidence to support this though, despite what various books & alternative therapists say. arthritis management is quite an individual thing though, so i guess if yr dr's ok with it & it works for you...

kate
« Last Edit: August 01, 2008, 05:41:14 AM by penguin »

Offline alberche

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2008, 02:07:41 PM »
Mmmmm... interesting, never heard before about this problem with solanaceans... I have pain in my lower back and hips since I got infected. When I started on meds with Sustiva, I developed an allergic reaction to it and the pain in joints became just terrible, I couldn't even stand and walk. My doc switched meds (Reyataz+Norvir) and it got much better, but never dissapeared completely. Now, it comes and goes and I am not able to identify any factor involved...

I eat tomatoes every week, as well as potatoes, egg plants, peppers and so on, and never noticed any difference... maybe it is necessary to take lots of these vegetables to have any sympthoms? I do not know, but it is an interesting issue.

Bon apetit!!!  ;D

love is blindness...  a wonderful song!

Offline Surviving

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2008, 02:55:16 PM »
isn't the mediterrain diet simply bread, seafood and olive oil?    also, they drink lots of wine instead of water.

perhaps, you simply need to drink more wine with your food and take an anti cholesteral drug like pravistan or something before you go to bed.

Offline aztecan

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2008, 06:24:51 PM »
Actually, the Mediterranean diet is a bit more involved than that.

It should include fish, lean meats and poultry, lots of vegetables, copious use of olive oil and reducing the amount of bread, pasta, cakes, cookies, sugars and fats we eat.

It really is quite a yummy way to eat.

I was on a statin. Actually, I've been on Zocor when it was combined with Zetia in Vytorin, and then I switched to Pravastatin, which is the generic Pravachol.

They worked pretty well, except I have side effects from them that could be problematic and possibly lethal.

So, I have now switched to Lescol, which is a newer statin that is supposed to play better with PIs.

We'll see what the CPKs say about it. I don't want to jinx it, but I have noticed an increase in the muscle pain and cramping, so it may be all for naught.

We'll just wait and see.

HUGS,

Mark
"May your life preach more loudly than your lips."
~ William Ellery Channing (Unitarian Minister)

Offline joemutt

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2008, 04:56:28 AM »
tiramisu, isn't that mediterrean?
seriously, i ve eaten rice soup for breakfast and brown rice with vegetarian curries for the last 11 days and lost 4 kgs (no supper or an aplle) and my cholesterol is 220 and the good one 35
so I was happy, i can hold of the cholesterol meds for a while longer. hugs

Offline MarcoPoz

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #24 on: August 18, 2008, 05:49:38 PM »
My triglycerides started going spazzo about 2 months after starting an NNRTI--before they thought there was any connection--so I jumped on the statin wagon--what's ONE more pill BID added to the mix, eh?  After awhile I got this wave of self confidence and decided I was gonna try to control my tri levels with diet--did low fat-no taste and it almost killed me--no taste--no love.

Being half Sicilian and having a typical Sicilian mom (Food is WHY we live) I decided to see if I could find a 'better' diet for me.  I cut out ALL processed foods--including boxed pasta--and even limited the portions of pasta I ate--cranked up the veggies, balanced with good protein with just enough fat to have flavor, added the juice of love (olive oil) to everything and decided to be 'balanced'.

My tri's went down, weight went down--I felt better and it's EASIER to eat this way.

To quote my mom--"The gods may have given men life--but they left it up to the Sicilians to show them HOW to live it" ;-)

As far as a more med-like diet--I tend to agree.

My unscientific personal opinion.


Offline alberche

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2008, 06:57:32 PM »
Dear Marco,

Thank you!!!

Wow, having a Sicilian mom should be very difficult to translate in simple words!!!

I think mediterranean eating is easy: simply fresh fruits and vegetables, fish, lean meats, simple cooking recipes, sauces made also in the simplest way, and nothing processed, with additives, or similars.

I think that anyone in any country will find not too difficult to eat in this way using their local products.

Hugs :-)
love is blindness...  a wonderful song!

Offline Lisa

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #26 on: September 14, 2008, 10:24:26 AM »
Hey Markie,
I have been following this thread for quite some time, but never had the gumption to post until now.
I have never had a doc recommend a diet to me, even despite my "little" obesity problem. I did find out that my triglycerides were off the map a little less than a year ago. While I realize that much of it is of my own doing, i also have huge genetic predisposition for the big picture.
With the advent of having digital cable installed here, I found, and fell in love with Gillian McKeith on BBC.
I have been doing some things different for quite some time now, like using EVOO for pretty much everything, but about a year ago I was introduced to, and fell in love with, the idea that I needed to make drastic changes in my dietary habits. While it is true that evoo cannot tolerate high temps, it can be used as a mainstay of all of your fat needs. If you intend to saute' coat the ingredient, rather than the pan, that way your evoo doesn't char, and you retain the good benefits of it's use.
I would recommend getting one of those oil misting cans. You pressurize it yourself, and by utilizing the spray method you don't tend to use too much oil. The plastic ones are adequate, but the metal/stainless ones are superior, and will last nearly forever.

One of the best things to happen in my life was finding the Whole Foods market, and studying their website. I adopted a more natural plan of eating, using more grains, legumes,fresh veg, and meatless substitutes. Don't get me wrong now......I would still tear into a good steak in a New York minute, but I have found through the months that I can really tell a big difference in how my body reacts to meats. About the only meats I now use are ground chicken, and ground turkey. I have experimented with tofu, and had mixed results, but have found TVP to be a nice, easy to store substitute for many things.

Even though I haven't gone entirely vegan, I do try to keep things as meatless as possible most of the time. On days where I eat real meat, i can definately tell the difference in how my belly reacts. I feel heavy, bloated, and uncomfortable for most of the rest of the day.

Rather than going Mediterranean per se, I have found other avenues to keep down the bad stuff.
Knowing that you have gluten problems, I'm sure you already know a lot of this stuff, but don't underestimate all of the really cool things you can do with chickpeas.

I think I saw you mention Quinoa. Also a wonderful means of getting vitamins and minerals without the drag one gets from pastas. It is great for cold salads, and as a sub for couscous. It has a really nice earthy, nutty flavor, and is light as air. I haven't been able to do much with millet however. I guess I will give it another college try soon.

Fish is fine, but we with HIV must be mindful of too much use. I supplement with fish oil caps for my EFA's, but all of the other nutrients can be found in other sources.

I was raised up a meat and potatoes girl(as we all can plainly see) and making dietary changes are not something that can be done overnight. I have just found that eating a primarily vegan diet, has done wonders for my brain clarity, belly reduction, and overall sense of wellbeing.
I would be remiss if I didn't mention drugs. I was on huge doses of Elavil, and Trazadone at one time. Both are notorious for weight gain, and water retention. My mind was dull, and we all know what an awful time I had with speech, and memory. I still do, but not nearly to the extent I did. I came off of both of those, and switched up to a nice dose of Prozac, and things have really turned around nicely for me. It has not only helped immensely with my depression, but I don't find the need to graze all day anymore either.
I am going to have lipids drawn when I go to my visit in ealy Oct. and we will see if these changes have truly been beneficial in clinical terms, but I suspect I already know that answer. I know I have had some weight loss, and my tummy has gone down just a smidgen.
Now.....if I could just give up the ciggies, things would be WAY better.
Oh yeah!!!!! WATER WATER WATER...is VERY important. Aside from my one cup of coffee in the mornings, it is all I drink most of the time. I have found that soy milk is great, and I make my own frozen waters with ginger, lemon or lime .
I don't eat hardly ANY prepackaged foods, and haven't bought sugar in five, or six years. (aside from occasional raw sugar, or brown sugar)
I recommend going to the Whole Foods site and market near you(if there is one) and using the site
for research into healthy diet.
Hell, I'm even making my own granola, and yoghurt now.

Bon Apetit'

« Last Edit: September 14, 2008, 10:41:39 AM by Lisa »
No Fear  No Shame  No Stigma
Happiness is not getting what you want, but wanting what you have.

Offline aztecan

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #27 on: September 14, 2008, 11:04:10 PM »
Hey Lisa,

Sounds like you have hit the ground running with this new way of eating. Notice I didn't say diet. Diets don't work, but adjusting the way we eat does.

There is a small health food store here. I can get some things there.  The nearest whole foods market is three hours away, but I do visit it when I can.

I haven't made my own yogurt yet. I have been steering clear of the dairy, but do eat some yogurt each week, just for good stomach/intestinal health. There is one called Greek Gods Yogurt - holy cow, it is just fantastic. Beats most of the commercial stuff hands down. I have seen it in honey and pomegranate flavors.

I also will drink kefir now and then. It is an acquired taste, I think, but I am getting used to it.

Today (Sunday) I allow myself a treat, so I have a small slice of ham and two real eggs for breakfast and some sort of meat (usually beef or lamb) at dinner.

The rest of the week I am doing mostly the Mediterranean stuff, including a lot of veggies. I have found some chopped tomatoes with garlic and other spices at Safeway. They go great with the eggplant from my garden.

I hear you about the fish. I enjoy fish, just about all kinds, but it is getting so very expensive! I saw halibut steaks at Safeway today. They were gorgeous. They were also $19 or $20 a pound!  :o

So, it is a lot more boneless chicken breast, turkey breast or meatless meals.

I don't think I have lost any weight, yet, but we'll see.

I love quinoa too!  ;D I found some the other day (prepackaged but still healthy) mixed with brown rice and spices. The zesty cilantro flavor was great. Haven't tried the others yet.

Beans and other legumes are also a mainstay in my house. Garbanzo beans (aka chick peas) are great. I love hummus and eat a lot of it.

Now, Lisa my dear, about that smoking!  >:(

I know, I am a fine one to preach, having only quit 20 months ago myself. But it is something to consider. Hey, if someone who had a two-pack-a-day habit and smoked for 34 years managed to quit, the may be hope for you too! ;)
 
HUGS,

Mark

"May your life preach more loudly than your lips."
~ William Ellery Channing (Unitarian Minister)

Offline Snowangel

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #28 on: September 14, 2008, 11:30:06 PM »
Interesting thread with lots of yummy ideas!

Mark- Can I ask you what you do with your chick peas and other beans, other than using kidney beans in chili, I haven't a clue how to cook them.  I have had some black and pinto beans in my pantry for what seems like forever.

Thanks,
Snow
Of all the things you wear, your expression is the most important

The heaviest thing you can carry is a grudge..

One thing you can give and still keep...is your word.

One thing you can't recycle is wasted time.

Offline aztecan

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2008, 09:56:55 AM »
Hey Snow,

I have to confess I am one of the worst bean cooks when left to my own devices.  As a result, I have turned to the Internet and its plethora of bean recipes.

Here are some of my favorites. Note that, since I don't have a pressure cooker at this time I often opt for the crock pot version of recipes.

But, see what you think.

Pinto beans slow cooked with ham and seasonings.
Ingredients:
   •   1 pound dried pinto beans, sorted and washed
   •   3 cups water
   •   1 large onion, chopped
   •   4 to 8 ounces cooked ham, chopped
   •   3 cloves garlic, minced
   •   1/2 cup chopped green pepper
   •   1 tablespoon chili powder
   •   1 teaspoon salt
   •   1 teaspoon pepper
   •   1/2 teaspoon ground cumin
   •   1/4 teaspoon dried oregano
Preparation:
Cover beans with water and soak overnight; drain. Put beans in a large kettle; cover with fresh water and simmer 20 to 30 minutes. Drain.
Place beans in a 5- or 6-quart slow cooker with water and remaining ingredients. Cover cooker and cook on low setting for 9 to 11 hours, or until beans are soft and done. Stir a couple of times during cooking and add more water if necessary. Serve with cornbread, rice, a green salad or slaw. Serves 8 to 10.


 
Cowpoke Beans
1 pound dried pinto beans, 2 1/2 cups cold water, 1/2 pound salt pork -- cut up, 1 red chile pepper, 1 medium onion -- chopped, 1 clove garlic -- minced, 6 ounces tomato paste, 1 1/2 tablespoons chili powder, 1 teaspoon salt, 1 teaspoon cumin seed, 1/2 teaspoon marjoram
Wash and pick over beans; put in mixing bowl. Cover w/cold water and soak overnight.
Next morning, put beans and water into Dutch over and bring to boil; reduce heat. Cover and simmer 1 hour.
Stir in remaining ingredients; cover and simmer 3 hours or until tender. Add more water if necessary. Serves 8.


Anasazi and Pinto Beans with Hominy and Green Chiles
1 1/2 c Dried anasazi beans, 1 1/2 c Dried pinto beans, 10 c Water, 1 ts Salt, 3 c Dried indian hominy, 3 Green anaheim chiles, for garnish
Soak the beans overnight in water to cover. In the morning rinse the beans with cold water and place in a large pot with fresh water to cover. Stir in the salt, cover and simmer slowly 2 to 2 1/2 hours, until the beans are tender. Add water when necessary and stir occasionally to prevent the beans from burning.
Add hominy and simmer, covered, 1 hour, stirring occasionally. The hominy and beans should be very soft and moist, but not too watery.
While the beans and hominy are cooking, roast, peel, seed and dice the chiles. Sprinkle on top of the cooked beans for garnish.

I absolutely love Anasazi beans. Hope you can get them where you live. Oh, and for me, green chile is not a garnish, it is a food group. I usually roast a few bushels each fall, so I have them in the freezer and on hand. I put them in during the cooking process so the flavor and zing can be spread throughout the dish. Just a side note, if you decide to freeze your own chile, roast them, but don't peel them. That way, they peppers don't suffer freezer burn and the peels usually just slip right off when you take them out of the freezer and thaw them.


 
Beans and Mudbugs
1 lb Pinto beans, 3/4 1lb of cured ham; (cut in small pieces), up to?3/4 1lb of crayfish tails; up to 1 lg Onion; (diced), 4 lg Cloves of garlic, 1 lb Smoked sausage, Hot sauce to taste; or,Dried pepper flakes or, Pepper seasoning of your choice.
Place the first three ingredients in a slow cooker with sufficient water and cook for 8-10 hours. In a pot large enough to hold the beans sauté the following. When the onions are translucent add beans to pot along with 3/4 cup of rice and simmer until rice is tender. Serve this with cornbread, sourdough, french, or barbecue bread and a cold glass of ice tea.

 
Cajun Red Beans and Rice
1 lb Dried pinto beans (2 cups), 4 c Uncooked AM Rice (Medium or Long Brown), 1 1/2 c Finely chopped celery, 1 1/2 c Finely chopped onions, 1 1/2 c Finely chopped green pepper, 5 Bay leaves, 1 ts White pepper, 3/4 ts Cayenne pepper, 1/2 ts Black pepper, 1 ts Tabasco sauce, optional (according to taste), 2 ts Thyme?1 1/2 ts Garlic powder?1 1/2 ts Oregano?1 1/2 ts Paprika?6 oz Tomato paste
Cover beans with water and soak overnight. Drain and rinse before cooking. Combine beans with 5 cups water and bring to a boil. Reduce heat, cover and simmer 45 minutes to 1 hour, stirring occasionally. Add another 4 cups water and add celery, onion, bell pepper, bay leaves, and remaining ingredients. Cook until beans are tender and begin breaking up. Cook rice. To serve, mound 3/4 cup rice on plate and spoon generous serving of beans over the rice.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2008, 10:09:33 AM by aztecan »
"May your life preach more loudly than your lips."
~ William Ellery Channing (Unitarian Minister)

Offline dixieman

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2008, 11:07:08 AM »
Hmmm... there are some mighty fine mediterranean menz.. in this world.... and if this diet works for them... I just wonder? will it work for an eastern european hillbilly american? I'm sure it beats out Borshe and collard greens. I think I will try it! lol... I do love feta coleslaw... let us know how the meal plan works for you! John

Offline Snowangel

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #31 on: September 16, 2008, 02:48:58 PM »
Thank you! Aztecan.  They sound yummy.  I have never heard of the anasazi beans but I will keep my eye out for them.  I really appreciate the recipes!
Take care,
Snow
Of all the things you wear, your expression is the most important

The heaviest thing you can carry is a grudge..

One thing you can give and still keep...is your word.

One thing you can't recycle is wasted time.

Offline Lisa

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #32 on: September 16, 2008, 03:16:56 PM »
Yesssirrrrrr buddy! I was raised up a ham-hocks pinto beans, and buttermilk cornbread kinda girl, but I've been trying to be better.
These days I'm a throw stuff in the pot, and come back in a while, kinda girl.
I do simple. Real simple.
Can of chickpeas, drained and rinsed. Throw them in the processor for a rough chop. Toss them in the pan with a smidge of evoo S&P, fresh rosemary, and saute' for a few moments(just long enough to warm through) and serve with some slices from a baguette.
Black beans are my other favorite staple. You can do so much with them.
heck, since my BFF will eat pretty much anything, we have taken a head of cauliflower, steamed it, and sliced it in half. Dinner.
I also tend to go in cycles. I crave something, and then have it three times a week for a month, then switch to something else. Lately my passion has been baby bok choy. Rough chop them (all the way dow to the root nub), throw them in the pan with evoo, sesame seed oil, soy sauce, and saute' until al dente', throw in a palmful of sesame seeds, right at the end, and have the whole thing over rice. Ta Da! Recently i've found that I really enjoy bumping up the vitamins, and EFAs by also throwing in some pumpkin seeds,& sunflower seeds.

WHY didn't someone tell me about nutritional yeast before this?????? I just discovered it, and will never buy cheese again. Very yummy over popcorn.
No Fear  No Shame  No Stigma
Happiness is not getting what you want, but wanting what you have.

Offline aztecan

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #33 on: September 17, 2008, 10:46:55 AM »
WHY didn't someone tell me about nutritional yeast before this?????? I just discovered it, and will never buy cheese again. Very yummy over popcorn.

I've never heard of it. So, what is it and what do you do with it?

"May your life preach more loudly than your lips."
~ William Ellery Channing (Unitarian Minister)

Offline mudman8

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2008, 11:47:18 AM »
years ago at an HIV symposium we had a nutritionist and she said, the simplest protein to eat is an egg if you can't handle meats .  she also said we don't eat enough beans.  And I know a good substitute for pasta is cooking spaghetti squash slowly. Yeah, it's not like pasta, but it's vegetable and holds a nice tomato sauce.

Friends who were on teh Atkins diet, substitute mashed potatoes with mashed cauliflour, quite wonderful, we all need more fresh vegetables.
Life is analog

Offline alberche

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2008, 03:22:12 PM »
OK Folks,

So, let's open a restaurant!!!!

McViral? CD4 delight ? Gimme da pills? Undetectable sprouds?

Just need a good commercial name!!!

 ;D
love is blindness...  a wonderful song!

Offline heartforyou

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #36 on: October 15, 2008, 11:13:06 AM »
My "diet" includes :

- lots of garlic, ginger and onions
- olive oil for cooking
- lots of spices : cilantro, cumin, kurkuma ,thyme...
- 2 spoons of flaxseed oil stirred in 1/2 a cup of yogurt with nuts and dried fruits as breakfast
- and ALWAYS two glasses of luke warm water in the morning + lots of water during the day
- cabbages, seaweed, miso soup with dried wakame and dried shiitake  soaked in water( easy to make with paste and done in 5 minutes.
- green veggies... and fresh fruitjuice ( carrot, apple and kiwi...) not always, i admit.

And : red wine..; yes, almost every day.

As an ex gym owner I state that regular exercise ( can be moderate walking)is a must , if you can do it physically of course.

My pesto recipe for all pastas... not too familiar with "cups", so try your own..

one cup of chopped fresh basil leaves /half a cup of ground Parmesan cheese / half a cup of pine seeds  / 1/3 cup of virgin olive oil and some salt.
Put all the ingredients into the processor and mix well.
Can be kept refrigerated for a week. But you can also freeze it. mmmmmmmmmmm

Bon appétit,

Hermie
Diagnosed in 1987 and still kicking
Viread, Kivexa (Epzicom),Viramune once daily

Happiness is the freedom of breathing fresh air every day.

Offline weasel

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #37 on: November 24, 2008, 09:41:41 PM »
Well Bob and I went shopping in the HUGE town of Poplar Bluff !

 The "night of the seven fishes " is coming quick !

 Well Hillbilly Heaven does NOT  " do fish "

 Soooo  I got NO eel , NO smelts !  , NO squid ! ,  NO  Lobsta !

 Got anchovies in a can , got frozen shrimp for Christmas Eve Dinner ! YUM YUM

  Not the least bit ammused with Ozark eating !
 At leat NOT at Christmas time .................................................. :'(

                                        I love Italian Deli's  :)

                                             happy eating ,
                                                                    Karl
" Live and let Live "

Offline MarcoPoz

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #38 on: November 25, 2008, 10:54:20 AM »
Ahh the holidays.  I'll be having traditional Sicilian meals for all of them--MMM YUM!

Here's something I found by accident and then relaized just HOW much sense it made:

I started going to the store/market every other day to buy just what I needed for a few meals at a time.  I was in a rush and the idea of spending a Saturday afternoon steering the cart through the mega-low-mart-thrifty-acres was too much to handle--would rather have fun on the weekends.  So, my shopping habits changed.  By going to a LOCAL store more often, but buying only what I need except for the stapels, eggs, milk, oil etc, everything stays freash.  I eat what I buy and I'm buying based on what I want to cook.  If I see a recipe I think I'd like, I try it.

I went all this way to wind up shopping and eating like my grandparents did ;-)

Fresh veggies, fresh sauces and herbs, fresh fish and fresh meats...who'da thunk, eh?

Offline weasel

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #39 on: November 28, 2008, 12:51:08 AM »
well marco ,
                  i would love to do that ,but i live 40 miles from a store with fresh
  veggies . i sometimes find a pepper in good condition , cabbage is popular here .
 If you catch the market right you may even find a good potato !

   Ozark Mountains NOT suitable for daily shopping  :'(

   But I do drive up to Saint Louis once a month  :)

  They know what Italian is ,oh goody food !

  Summer time we have a huge garden ,so frezer is full ,but going fast .

                                                send me a smelt !

                                                  love , karl
" Live and let Live "

Offline J.R.E.

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #40 on: December 09, 2008, 07:31:19 AM »


Had this in my email box this morning...

http://www.medpagetoday.com/PrimaryCare/DietNutrition/12069


Ray


Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

 As of 8/2514,  t-cells are at 402, Viral load <40

 Current % is at 11%

  
 62 years young.

Offline MarcoPoz

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #41 on: December 11, 2008, 03:17:51 PM »
well marco ,
                  i would love to do that ,but i live 40 miles from a store with fresh
  veggies . i sometimes find a pepper in good condition , cabbage is popular here .
 If you catch the market right you may even find a good potato !

   Ozark Mountains NOT suitable for daily shopping  :'(

   But I do drive up to Saint Louis once a month  :)

  They know what Italian is ,oh goody food !

  Summer time we have a huge garden ,so frezer is full ,but going fast .

                                                send me a smelt !

                                                  love , karl


Ugh--I feel for you!  I live in a fresh food desert so I'm told.  Being in a large urban area where the major grocery stores have moved to the suburbs is a hassle.  I'm lucky...I have a job and a vehicle.  That said though, I've become pretty good at getting what I can--that's fresh--as locally as possible.

I also started gardening a small plot in my yard that at least gives me 2 dozen quartz of tomatoes to can each year.  Just recently I got involved with an Urban Garden group.  I hope to can quite a bit of fresh goodies next fall.

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #42 on: December 11, 2008, 03:24:55 PM »
I live in a large urban area and there are TONS of places to obtain fresh produce, and that's just by walking.  Factor in buses and subways and it's by far more than one person can handle.  I'm curious about what city would so difficult to get vegetables.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline aztecan

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #43 on: December 11, 2008, 08:36:22 PM »
Hey Ray,

Thanks for the link. I printed it out and showed it to the doc today. His response was, "Oh, I know. I added nuts to my diet some time ago.:

He then told me where to find them reasonably.

I am not crazy about almonds, but love walnuts. Come to think of it, I have some in the freezer!

Good, now I can add them to the diet. A handful twice a day, the doc said.

HUGS,

Mark

"May your life preach more loudly than your lips."
~ William Ellery Channing (Unitarian Minister)

Offline rondrond

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #44 on: December 12, 2008, 11:46:56 AM »
Ok Mark,
 Now you've got me eating lots of fish and eating a handful of nuts at each meal. I have also upped my exercise regime to getting on the floor and doing sit ups/crunches and leg lifts. I'm looking better. My neck and stomach are looking much better.

Katie is also getting her neck back and looking smaller from the top down....I don't know how to describe it. She seems to be melting from the head down....

Can't wait to get my next lab results.
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Offline MarcoPoz

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #45 on: December 12, 2008, 05:14:01 PM »
I live in a large urban area and there are TONS of places to obtain fresh produce, and that's just by walking.  Factor in buses and subways and it's by far more than one person can handle.  I'm curious about what city would so difficult to get vegetables.

In a word...

Detroit ;-)

Like I said, I'm lucky--I have a car and a 'real' grocery store is not that far away.  I must pass about 30 'markets' though that mostly carry junk food and stale bread with beer, booze and Lotto tickets.  I think I've joined the ranks of community folks who are trying to advocate for healthier food options at inner city markets.  Its kind of a chicken-egg thing though.  They sell only what people buy, but people can only buy what they sell.

Offline weasel

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #46 on: December 12, 2008, 06:16:07 PM »
now i would have gone with rural anywhere .

never considered a big beautiful city not offering fresh  veggies  :o

 We are cooking our thankgiving turkey tomarow !

 Bob and eye ate at his family's home.

  icky  ::)

can not wait for a stuffing sandwich ,yumyum
                                                               Karl  :-*
" Live and let Live "

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #47 on: December 12, 2008, 07:35:59 PM »
In a word...

Detroit ;-)

Like I said, I'm lucky--I have a car and a 'real' grocery store is not that far away.  I must pass about 30 'markets' though that mostly carry junk food and stale bread with beer, booze and Lotto tickets.  I think I've joined the ranks of community folks who are trying to advocate for healthier food options at inner city markets.  Its kind of a chicken-egg thing though.  They sell only what people buy, but people can only buy what they sell.

Are there no farmers' markets there?  Sorry, Detroit is not a place that I'm all familiar with but the produce here is first class, and mostly organic but semi-OK prices, and the choices are outstanding.  Plus I enjoy the camaraderie with the sellers, many coming in from Lancaster County (Amish)  Of course the growing season in short in Detroid I'd think

http://www.detroiteasternmarket.com/

http://www.freshfarmsmarket.com/

http://www.localharvest.org/farmers-markets/M18083
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Offline aztecan

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #48 on: December 13, 2008, 01:04:13 AM »
We have them here.

http://www.localharvest.org/search.jsp?map=1&lat=36.8383&lon=-107.994&scale=1.3&ty=&nm=&zip=87410

Some things are seasonal, but we also have local eggs, meats, poultry and fish available to us.

HUGS,

Mark

"May your life preach more loudly than your lips."
~ William Ellery Channing (Unitarian Minister)

Offline weasel

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Re: Mediterranean, anyone?
« Reply #49 on: December 13, 2008, 07:09:31 AM »
hey mark ,
               great web site !

           the closest veggie market is right up the street only 95 miles away                      LOL


           as for beef and eggs ? , we are surrounded by  cows and  chickens !

           I used to want a cow ,for milk ,but seems like a lot of work ,and i do not
 
           even know what i would do with a cow plopp  ::)

           no shortage of nice good beef , or local  eggs .

                                                                             karl
" Live and let Live "

 


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