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Author Topic: is it just me?  (Read 7989 times)

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Offline Tricialuko

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is it just me?
« on: July 23, 2008, 04:17:25 PM »
maybe im crazy but i got absolutly no problems being hiv pos. Im very open with my status and im also kinda glad i have it. i read alot of the things you all write and believe me i do feel your pain but for me for whatever reason, its just very easy for me to disclose ...to anyone, its very easy for me to talk openly about it. I get offended when people whisper to me such as a counslor saying they are trying to protect my privacy. My response is "dont" let people hear it cuz i believe its those whispers that carry the stigma that is so strong today in 2008. Nobody wants to talk about it. If i had 3 wishes one of them would NOT be to not have hiv. No, I have other things id rather wish for. People think im crazy but there is just no way im the only one in the world that feels this way, am I?
shawni

Offline sharkdiver

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2008, 04:37:34 PM »
I don't quite understand why you would be kinda glad you have it. Could you explain?

Glad you feel comfortable talking openly about it, but remember not everyone may be in a safe and comfortable position to do so.
thanks,
A curious Shark

Offline Mouse

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2008, 04:38:45 PM »
What?

Yeah. You know, I think it is just you.

Offline Tricialuko

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2008, 05:16:11 PM »
a curious shark.... i guess im glad because it opened my eyes to alot of things and brought me closer to my family. it has been a blessing in alot of ways. and maybe with the lifestyle i choose maybe now i feel like i can educate some people and do something good since ive wasted alot of time in addiction and prisons. its been kinda a relief to know that not only dont i have to hand out in this life long but i can actually contribute something pos before i go. never thought that woulda happend. Does that make any sense now?  but who knows, maybe i am crazy?
shawni

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2008, 06:29:40 PM »
Glad it makes you happy. I can't think of anything in my life that has been made better by being HIV+ and I would give it up in a heartbeat.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2008, 06:39:04 PM »
Tricia,

Matty the Damned can dig what you're saying. You're HIV positive, you've known about it for a couple of years and thus far you've had worse experiences - such as being in prison.

You've certainly got the ex-con's world weary sense of self righteousness going pretty nicely.

Back to this thread however, your view of the world doesn't seem like such a way out to me. I think that view might change in the future if you get seriously ill, but whatever.

MtD

/edit: fixed gwammar/
« Last Edit: July 23, 2008, 07:26:14 PM by matty.the.damned »

Offline David_CA

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2008, 07:21:03 PM »
I certainly don't know the OP, her motivations, etc, but I can understand to a point some of what she's saying.  I definitely am not glad that I have AIDS or HIV, but there is some good that has come into my life because of it.  I know others have said the same.  I was close to my family pre-HIV, but I am a lot closer now since disclosing.  I'm closer to some of my friends, too.  I seem to have more compassion for people in general now.  I am certainly not as ignorant about HIV and recognize it's impact on us (people in general) a lot more now.  Again, I am not glad that I have AIDS, but I'm not so blind that I can't see what positive things have occurred in my life since learning I was HIV+. 

David
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline mjmel

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2008, 07:44:39 PM »
If I had 3 wishes the first would go out like this, "I wish everyone were free from HIV."

I understand your point of resistance to being stigmatized. I heartily agree with this in theory but some can't disclose; others can and do. The part of being glad you are HIV is kinda hard to digest. It has broken my heart and many, many other hearts to lose people that were near and dear. You know how that goes.....yes?

Best to you, Tricialuko, and your strong sense of self. I hope you healthy days and long life.

Mike

Offline Winiroo

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2008, 08:50:49 PM »
I've got no problem with being HIV positive except for me being sick all the damn time and tired from being consistently ill with something, loosing people I love. You know stuff like that.
I don't have a problem with disclosing my status to everyone. I just find it easier not to tell some people.
I don't go around announcing I've had hemorrhoids or if I'm on my period to everyone either.

I don't think its just you. But I'm sure your in a very small group of really open people.

Oh and if I had three wishes I'd wish away HIV also. Its ruined a lot of things in my life. So I hate it.

Offline AlanBama

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2008, 09:59:46 PM »
Oh and if I had three wishes I'd wish away HIV also. Its ruined a lot of things in my life. So I hate it.

Me too!   Even though I have made some wonderful friends that otherwise I would not have known, I would still take the option of "No HIV" if I could.   Coulda, shoulda, woulda.....

OK back to reality......I'm playing the hand I was dealt, as we all are.
It's a journey, we're all on it together; some for a short time, some for many years....we're just at different points along the way.

I'm glad you are able to be so open about your status.

hugs,  Alan
"Remember my sentimental friend that a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others." - The Wizard of Oz

Offline Winiroo

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2008, 10:08:02 PM »
I wouldn't want to go back in time and change things. Everything that has happened in my life has made me who I am today and I am happy with me.
I might go back and make me take better care of me and my medical needs. LOL

I don't know what I would be like today if I'd never decided to date my late husband. Heck I might have just fallen for another man with HIV and gotten infected anyway. Who knows.
I do like the people in my life right now, that's for sure.

I am glad to hear Tricialuko is pleased with her life. That's awesome and it is always good to hear someone is happy.

Offline skeptik73

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2008, 10:30:52 PM »
We all look at things from the tiny scale of our own lives.  In the greater context of human civilization, HIV is not necessarily a bad thing.  I remember reading something along the lines of: people whose ancestors on both sides came from areas that were ravaged by the plague are very highly resistant to HIV -- almost impossible for them to get it.

Maybe HIV does something similar for the next scourge.  As tricky and subtle as this virus is, its not hard for me to imagine.

And it cuts down on the rampant indiscriminant orgies too -- people spend their time doing more constructive things.  Can you imagine how much more self-absorbed and hedonistic gay men would be if HIV did not exist?

Really, I don't think I'd eliminate the virus from all of humanity even if I could.  And I certainly wouldn't eliminate it from just myself.

And I wouldn't go back to the time of the dinosaurs and cause more of them to die off in Texas so that we could have more cheap oil there in 2008.  I just wouldn't do it.  When you pick up one end of the stick, you also pick up the other.... and rarely do you truly understand what you're going to get on that other side of the stick.

Actually its not all that easy for me to talk about HIV openly, but I still wouldn't change it.  So I can relate, sorta.

Offline AlanBama

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2008, 11:10:31 PM »
In the greater context of human civilization, HIV is not necessarily a bad thing. 

Not a bad thing?   OK ---  I'll have to sleep on that one.
"Remember my sentimental friend that a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others." - The Wizard of Oz

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2008, 11:52:06 PM »
hee
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline komnaes

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2008, 12:25:55 AM »
And it cuts down on the rampant indiscriminant orgies too -- people spend their time doing more constructive things.  Can you imagine how much more self-absorbed and hedonistic gay men would be if HIV did not exist?

You think it does? Do we live on different planets?

This is the same old BS that gay men are having too much sex, and those have too much sex is "self-absorbed and hedonistic", and if it wasn't for a deadly virus they'd be ceaselessly fucking their brains out. It somehow sounds to me that you're suggesting that sort of cosmic balance is at work here, that for those involving in "hedonistic sex" (whatever that means) should be killed off.

Kill those who are weak-minded who indulge in lust and sex for the better of human kind in the future - it all sounds like some form of extreme Darwinism we call Eugenism throwing in. Am I being too sensitive?

Really, I don't think I'd eliminate the virus from all of humanity even if I could.  And I certainly wouldn't eliminate it from just myself. And I wouldn't go back to the time of the dinosaurs and cause more of them to die off in Texas so that we could have more cheap oil there in 2008.

Why are we comparing oil reserve in Texas to a virus.. the point being?

Let me try - so if more corpses of dinosaurs got comprised into oil, we would have continued to burn more of it despite the evidences of it causing global warming; an analogy, so even if you could eliminate HIV virus from all of us, you would not have it eliminated because it would make human kind in the future weaker? Right? Better to remove those involving in hedonistic behaviors? I don't get it...

I wouldn't want to go further to expand this argument for the purpose of a rebuke ...

Care to elaborate?

Shaun
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2008, 01:03:36 AM »
sez "Skeptic":

And it cuts down on the rampant indiscriminant orgies too -- people spend their time doing more constructive things.  Can you imagine how much more self-absorbed and hedonistic gay men would be if HIV did not exist?

This is the same argument advanced by people who think access to Gardasil (the genital warts vaccine) will lead to rampant promiscuity. The idea is that diseases like HIV, HPV or whatever are good because they inhibit immoral behaviour.

It's rubbish of course and a patently inhuman position to take.

Actually its not all that easy for me to talk about HIV openly,

Given your contributions thus far, I'm not surprised to learn this.

Be well, :)

MtD

Offline Cliff

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2008, 01:38:14 AM »
We all look at things from the tiny scale of our own lives.  In the greater context of human civilization, HIV is not necessarily a bad thing.
In the greater context of human civ 25 million people have died from AIDS (2 million last year alone).  That's a bad thing.

Offline edfu

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2008, 06:01:26 AM »
"In the greater context of human civilization" perhaps, skeptik, you can tell us skeptics what you consider to be a good thing--"necessarily," of course.   
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Offline loop78

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2008, 06:07:18 AM »
And it cuts down on the rampant indiscriminant orgies too -- people spend their time doing more constructive things.  Can you imagine how much more self-absorbed and hedonistic gay men would be if HIV did not exist?

Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.

*Cough, cough*

Offline Winiroo

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2008, 10:44:36 AM »
And it cuts down on the rampant indiscriminant orgies too -- people spend their time doing more constructive things.  Can you imagine how much more self-absorbed and hedonistic gay men would be if HIV did not exist?

I had to chuckle when I read this line. I knew it would get a responce.
Hedonism is the philosophy that pleasure is the most important pursuit. The name derives from the Greek word for "delight" 

I think its a nice idea. Pleasure is a good thing.

THe way the comment was written was not read in a nice way to me though. But I laughed because I knew it would get a negative response.,

Train wreck, Im rambling. Ignore me. I need to eat some breakfast. LOL

Offline 100proofBrandy

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2008, 12:19:58 PM »
I wouldnt go so far as to say Im glad I have hiv but I can say it has made me a better person :)
The person you educate today maybe the one you save tomorrow :)

Offline skeptik73

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2008, 02:19:46 PM »
I am indeed suggesting a sort of cosmic balance, but not that hedonists should be killed off, or that their lives are meaningless and they should necessarily do a 180.  They are what they are, they're here to stay, and I must enjoy beating myself up for walking among them, because I seem to keep doing it.  But cosmic balance between opposing philosophies, yes.  That is exactly what I'm suggesting.

The dinosaurs are relevant because their decaying bodies made our oil, and the lack of oil is a source of much more freaking out (at least in the developed world) than HIV is.  But some generation is going to have to deal with this freak-out (of peak oil), why not us?

Now....

What is necessarily a good thing?  I've held so many different viewpoints through the years, that I can't give any sort of generalizing answer.  The thing that popped into my head though.... is a nutritious meal.  That is an example of something that is necessarily a good thing.  Or at least its the first thing that I thought of.  I suppose there's even an exception to that.... like if you're so nauseous you can't keep it down... but that's my answer anyway.

As for people that die, everyone dies.  But those deaths are not the only legacy.

I'm not surprised over the disagreement either.  I'm actually rather surprised that there's not more.  This is a much better Zen vibe than I would have anticipated.   :D

Offline Winiroo

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2008, 03:21:33 PM »
<<<<<---------  Waiting for someone to dumb that down for me.

Offline lifer

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2008, 03:39:31 PM »
There are other ways in life to become a better person or do something good in this world without having to carry the deadly virus in your body. Yes, sure, it makes you realize so much and you start cherishing everything but that's only a sign that you're afraid that any day could be your last day. The fact that you're a different person now like you say you are, just shows what a huge impact the hiv has and will have on your life.

So i dont know what i should be glad about really, the daily meds? the frequent hospital visits? intimate moments with other males where you hate yourself for having to disclose or not disclosing? the high cancer rates in hiv positive people? the big secret that will haunt you forever? the 25 million of people who have died, some of them like rotten animals eaten away by the virus?

Wow, those are really the things to be glad about. After all, it makes you such a good person! It changes you like nothing else! Everybody should have the fucking the virus then, lets share the joy!!!!


sorry.

Offline leatherman

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2008, 04:01:44 PM »
i believe its those whispers that carry the stigma that is so strong today in 2008. . . If i had 3 wishes one of them would NOT be to not have hiv.

I understand part of your position.

I agree that whispering about HIV and treating it like something "special/different" instead of just another disease, does continue the stigma. However, in the real world, sometimes the best way to avoid receiving some of that stigma is by not letting just anyone overhear that you have this disease. You'll find that there are definitely times to be circumspect and discreet about revealing your status in public. It's not always safe out there in the world and some caution should always be taken. But I don't say that to discourage you from trying to stop the stigma, just a word of warning for the wise.

I try to encourage many people to stop the stigma while they can. It's always much easier to fight these kinds of battles when your viral load isn't off the scale and/or when your not sick with an OI. It's not easy to be an activist, or even to get all the help you might need, while lying in a hospital bed dying. It's much easier trying to end the stigma and getting services/assistance in place BEFORE getting that sick.

I don't understand your other position though.

I can't understand not wishing to be rid of HIV. It's made the last sixteen years of my life pretty damned miserable with meds, side effects, and stays in the hospital. Screw world peace, I'm wishing away HIV so NOBODY, including myself, will have to die like my last two long-term partners have done.

Can you imagine how much more self-absorbed and hedonistic gay men would be if HIV did not exist?
please don't fall into that argument, usually given by religious-minded people. HIV is a just a disease - like the cold virus, mono, etc. No one gets HIV from being "sinful/bad/hedonistic". People get HIV, just like most other diseases, from contact with infected people. While being "hedonistic" may increase your odds and put you at risk for this disease (along with many others ie STDs and the common cold), being hedonistic is NOT the cause for a person being infected. (By the way, blaming the infection rate on hedonsim is actually part of the stigma that the OP talked about. ;))
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2008, 08:43:57 PM »
I am indeed suggesting a sort of cosmic balance, but not that hedonists should be killed off, or that their lives are meaningless and they should necessarily do a 180.  They are what they are, they're here to stay, and I must enjoy beating myself up for walking among them, because I seem to keep doing it.  But cosmic balance between opposing philosophies, yes.  That is exactly what I'm suggesting.

Ah, so basically you're a hypocrite who projects their guilt on other people.  Got it.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Winiroo

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2008, 08:52:09 PM »
And now a message from our sponsors.  ;D

http://www.youtube.com/v/Wfmixis8QlI&hl=en&fs=1

Offline DCGUY2007

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #27 on: July 25, 2008, 05:47:43 AM »
I would give up Hiv in a heartbeat. Being black and gay is more than enough. I got Hiv from being unsafe once and I am totally pissed at myself for letting this happen. In a ideal world Hiv might not be a stigma. But unfortunately in many places it still is.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2008, 05:49:22 AM by DCGUY2007 »

Offline Jerry71

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #28 on: July 25, 2008, 07:05:23 AM »
In one way I wish I never contacted HIV. But then again I would never have found people like this on the web that has been a support during the hard times having the virus.

Offline BT65

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #29 on: July 25, 2008, 08:19:29 AM »
And it cuts down on the rampant indiscriminant orgies too -- people spend their time doing more constructive things.  Can you imagine how much more self-absorbed and hedonistic gay men would be if HIV did not exist?

What a ridiculous and peculiar thing to say.  Why limit it to gay men?  What about johns, etc.?  HIV is a human disease-not limited to gay men.
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline edfu

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #30 on: July 25, 2008, 08:33:23 AM »
Perhaps we don't know what constructive things skeptik73 spends his time doing???
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Offline Peter6836

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #31 on: July 25, 2008, 08:48:08 AM »
I also would give this up in a heartbeat. It has caused irreparable damage in my life. I am sure there are millions of others that would as well. Too many people have died too soon. Many of us have lost loved ones to the disease and will loose loved ones to the disease as well as our own lives. It has complicated things horribly dealing with the day to day consequences is horrible. I do not understand the logic in appreciating it. Yes I have met wonderful people and yes I have a new outlook on things. I would rather make friends and learn life lessons in another way. I hope I am not evolved enough to have to learn how to live an appreciated life by having a vial disease.
Just my opinion, and I must say I respect the opinions of all others, i just do not always understand them.\
Respectfully,
Peter

Offline Iggy

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #32 on: July 25, 2008, 09:05:47 AM »
maybe im crazy but i got absolutly no problems being hiv pos. Im very open with my status and im also kinda glad i have it. i read alot of the things you all write and believe me i do feel your pain but for me for whatever reason, its just very easy for me to disclose ...to anyone, its very easy for me to talk openly about it. I get offended when people whisper to me such as a counslor saying they are trying to protect my privacy. My response is "dont" let people hear it cuz i believe its those whispers that carry the stigma that is so strong today in 2008. Nobody wants to talk about it. If i had 3 wishes one of them would NOT be to not have hiv. No, I have other things id rather wish for. People think im crazy but there is just no way im the only one in the world that feels this way, am I?

Tricia,

I, too, had a similar outlook and surety of my status and how I would not be ashamed of it for the first couple of years on my infection.  The thing of it though was that my thinking of it was just that - and intellectual exercise.

While I didn't ever believe having HIV was a good thing, there was a time that I dealt with my status by over-embracing it.

Then changes started to happen. Some small.  Some great.  The most significant was a realization that I wasn't really accepting my HIV status by being so gung-ho about my ownership of it, rather I was doing just a hell of a job hiding it in the open from myself.

I've come to terms with it, and having HIV has resulted in me taking certain paths in this life that have brought me some rewards, including my partner.  But it has also brought me many negative things from being denied a job to a horrible shingles attack that I certainly am not glad for in the least.

Hopefully you will retain your strength in being so certain of yourself and in being so upfront with the world about your status, but I do suggest that you also acknowledge that coming to terms with HIV doesn't require loving it either.

And it cuts down on the rampant indiscriminant orgies too -- people spend their time doing more constructive things.  Can you imagine how much more self-absorbed and hedonistic gay men would be if HIV did not exist?

If there is one thing I learned in my time on these boards, it's that having HIV doesn't mean you automatically become more enlightened or less prejudicial about others who are positive. 

Skeptik is not the first, nor will be the last, to moralize a person or group's sexual experiences as a measure of their place and value in society. 

Going back to the OP's original statement of three wishes:

1.  I  wish that HIV would be eradicated

2.  In absence of #1, I  wish that those without HIV would not discriminate, stereotype or stigmatize those who are poz - particularly in holding them up to some form of white glove test about how they contracted it and subsequent judgments of how that relates to their value as participants in society.

3.  In absence of # 2, I would wish that at least all people who are HIV positive could at least follow the sentiments as expressed in the previous wish.

Offline allopathicholistic

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #33 on: July 25, 2008, 09:45:26 AM »
Hey Tricia. You might find this earlier thread interesting
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=22159

Also, if you have time, take a look at what I wrote
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=22159.msg282758#msg282758

Allopathicholistic
(A Pseudo-Yenta?)

Offline BlueMoon

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #34 on: July 25, 2008, 12:54:07 PM »
My life wasn't so bleak that contracting a fatal disease has improved it.
...................VL.....CD4.....%
-----------------------------------------
08/10-- ......<40.....290.....42
05/10-- ......<48.....290.....46
02/10-- ......<48.....481.....44
10/09-- ......<48.....277.....46
07/09-- ......<48.....300.....38
05/09-- ........51.....449.....39
03/09-- Added Isentress
02/09-- ........65.....299.....34
11/08-- ........62.....242.....40
08/08-- ........66.....212.....29
05/08-- ......202.....217.....27
03/08-- ....5210.....187.....21
02/08-- Began Truvada/Reyataz/Norvir
12/07-- 273,000.....157.....22
11/07-- 229,000.....209.....22
10/07-- Diagnosis

It's a complex world.

Offline skeptik73

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #35 on: July 25, 2008, 04:42:40 PM »
People are reading a lot into my "can you imagine?" comment.  Not all of it is incorrect.

Betty, I don't limit to gay men, but that's the world I'm most familiar with, so that's the example that came out.

I've been thinking more about the erdication things.  Let me put it a different way.

If an omnipotent but non-omniscient God came down from heaven and said "hey, I've been away for while and I haven't had time to study the situation -- do you think the human race is ready for an HIV cure yet?"  I would tell him no, without hesitation.

I'll withdraw my comment on non-eradication (from everyone).  I honestly don't know what I'd do if I truly had that chance.  Its tough.  I just have the deep sense that we as a people, as a planet, are supposed to learn something from this, and that we haven't learned it yet.  It will just happen again, perhaps worse.  But at the same time, a short reprieve.... millions of lives.  In particular lives in developing nations where so many people don't even get a chance to choose anything at all.  For their sakes, I'd cave, and do the (immediately) compassionate thing, and pray that we had already learned all we really needed to, that it was in fact the right thing. 

But just myself, no I really wouldn't.

I actually like Iggy's list.  When we have #3, we'll be more worthy of #2.... and when we have #2, we'll be more worthy of #1.  If the world really was such that #2 was the case, then I'd have no reservations with reccommending #1.  Iggy, I also like your choice of words throughout.  Very objective.  I would only like to add that prejudice is not ALWAYS unwarranted.  Moralizing behaviors is different from moralizing an infection.  And stereotypes are not necessarily incorrect.... and stereotyping an individual person (and basing your treatment of that person on the stereotype) is different from TALKING in generalities about stereotypes that really do hold up most of the time.  And just to be clear, I was not being prejudiced about poz people.  Yes, I concede it was prejudice, but it was not about the virus. I know you didn't say that it was, but a reader might potentially think that, and I wanted to clear that up.  I had close friends who were poz for many years before I tested poz myself, and I always got myself tested every six months.  I never ran away from it.

Anyway.

I'm also fully aware that this "prejudice" (which is NOT about the virus) includes myself.  So (Philly), does that make me a hypocrite?  Or merely internally conflicted?  I don't feel like I'm a hypocrite.  I had to look the word up to figure it out for sure.  I think that I'm not a hypocrite because I'm not pretending to be virtuous.  At least I don't think that I am.  I know I'm not virtuous in this respect.  I didn't claim to be.  I suppose that's all technicality.  I might accept "honest hypocrite", although that seems an oxymoron.

As for projecting my own guilt, I don't blame others for my own shortcomings.  If the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it.  But I think the shoe fits a lot of people.  Not so much people here on this site.  I base that statement on my observation of many many others.

Anyway, sorry about hijacking this thread.

Offline skeptik73

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #36 on: July 25, 2008, 04:53:12 PM »
Didn't realize what an earfull I had written there until I read it all.

I do just want to clear up that I seriously do appreciate Iggy's wording of his statement applying directly to me.  I was precisely doing just that.  Nail on the head.  Very old habit.  Is it wrong to do so?  I'm listening.

Offline positively_me

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #37 on: July 25, 2008, 05:07:30 PM »
I was like Iggy in the sense that I over-embraced my infection but was hiding it from myself. I thought Iíd become the poster girl for hiv/aids awareness by telling my story to as many people as I could. I wasnít going to let this disease change me or change my life.  Now I realize that if you are going to be responsible with your hiv infection, it canít help but change your life.  Some changes have been good, others have been bad.

And like Tricialuko, I had no problems being hiv+ until I tried to have a relationship with a guy that told me it didnít matter to him.  He was right; it didnít matter to him until we tried to become intimate. He was barely able to kiss me without showing his physical discomfort.  And Iím not a bad kisser if some of you think it was my technique!  ;)  He then wound up running to his doctorís a few days later for an hiv test to make sure he hadnít been infected.

I also didnít have any problems being hiv+ because I had heard that ďthe drugs are so much better nowĒ and really easy to take.  Then I tried 3 different regimens over 4 years because I couldnít find one that my body could tolerate.  Please let me interject that I do know and am thankful for the fact that the drugs are much better now.  People and doctors were right about that.  It was just a very scary fact for me to realize that this infection that Iíd been having no problems with might possibly become life threatening if I could not tolerate the drugs.

I can also understand Tricialuko not wanting to wish away her hiv because it seems unproductive to me to think about wishes that will never come true.  That doesnít mean I wouldnít jump on a wish to be hiv- if a leprechaun was to grant me one.  :D  I wouldnít say that the disease has made me a better person but knowing Iím infected has.  It has made me aware that I am finite and to not waste the time that I have been blessed with.  This knowledge has helped me be more accepting of myself, others and my disease. No use fighting what is.  Iíd rather spend my time experiencing life.

Quote from: skeptik73 on July 23, 2008, 10:30:52 pm
And it cuts down on the rampant indiscriminant orgies too -- people spend their time doing more constructive things.  Can you imagine how much more self-absorbed and hedonistic gay men would be if HIV did not exist?

Iíve never had an indiscriminant orgy (sigh!) and I was infectedÖhiv doesnít discriminate.  Iím also not a self-absorbed and/or hedonistic gay man but I donít think that those men that are should have to be infected by hiv to be less self-absorbed or hedonistic.  During the early days of hiv/aids, the gay community paid the ultimate price of losing many of its members because the virus spread easier in male/male intercourse than female/male intercourse.  Because they suffered the stigma back then and were treated so shamefully is the only reason why it has become easier for a straight positive female like me to say I am infected.  If the gay community hadnít been the ones to be so hard hit by hiv and endure such horrible treatment, the straight community would be going through it right now.  God bless them because I donít know if I could have tolerated losing most of my friends to hiv, my family, my job, my health benefitsÖmy whole way of life just for being who I am and doing what I do.
Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people.  - Eleanor Roosevelt

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #38 on: July 25, 2008, 07:20:31 PM »
I pondered this thread while jogging today and tried to think of what good things have come from having HIV. All I could come up with was a better understanding of infectious disease and of people who have chronic medical conditions. I thought of a big list of bad things: my medical expenses are about $2000 a year, my digestive and metabolic systems have not been right for years, I've had a variety of HIV-related ailments and medication side effects, I've got lipoatrophy, my partner has had cancer twice... I could go on.

Unlike many people of here I don't believe there is a divine purpose to HIV. It's just a virus. There is no one trying to teach us a lesson; the lessons we learn we teach each other. I had a great life before HIV and I still have a great life. I'm not complaining at all because I know how good I've got it and not because I have HIV but because of the patients I work with daily. However, I suspect I would be an even happier, healthier, prettier, wealthier, smarter person if I never had been infected.

Offline Ann

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #39 on: July 25, 2008, 07:23:43 PM »
My life wasn't so bleak that contracting a fatal disease has improved it.

Amen!
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline newt

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #40 on: July 25, 2008, 07:47:28 PM »
This is an interesting thread but in truth I am bored by the existential aspects of HIV.

I am bored by people obsessing about whether a lipstick is a risk factor, whether their lives are better for cleaning up, whether their lives will even be the same again.

I am bored by people wrapped up in their own angst they can't spot a really ill person (cos some of us are still).

I am bored by sympathy.

I am bored by ambivalence to meds, they work most times dammit.

I am bored by drugs with crap side effects that wouldn't get approval for any other condition.

I am bored by people who can swallow 8 inches but gag on a not so big Truvada.

I am bored by people with real issues getting the least time/voice and them with none/few (like and on the sly bj or a minor, short term rash) getting a hog load.

I am bored by crap pediatric dosing of ARVs.

I am bored at the cult of bareback. I am especially bored, and still angry at negative and untested gay men's stupidity, and preference not to discuss HIV status.

I am well and truly bored by UNGASS, but still angry at detention of HIV educators in Iran and torture of gay men in Egypt.

I am bored by myself. I am lucky but not unusual, I had to shape up, lay off the wine and acknowledge I ain't gonna die so easy and am not really all that sick. I went into spin when my CD4 jumped into normal range because somehow the status of being ill evaporated and it was kick up my my proverbial (arse).

It's just a virus, not a moral judgement, it's not some great karmic scythe.

In my experience straight folk are as sleazy and/or boring in bed a gay folk, the only thing that holds straight folk back is the downward pressure of kids/family, for whom i am thankful to say most show real love and responsibility. Gay folk with kids is no different, there's just less of us.

If HIV gets you a better life good, if it gets you a worse one, bad, if it screws your head, get over it, life is precious and you ain't gonna die easy, most likely. It's just a virus, not a moral judgement.

It's not divine justice, or evolutionary, it's just a fact.

I am also bored by Sartre, who I have deicded was a homophobe ... his big idea on authenticity in Nausea, he just didn't get the working queer class radicalism of camp.

Thank you creator for the world in its complexity.

- matt (mostly bored but a bit angry too) the newt

Now playing: Sailing By, radio 4 endpiece signature tune
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline atlq

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #41 on: July 25, 2008, 08:28:33 PM »
All this  charity toward the virus is  making me ill....HIV sucks......end of story. Any strength I have found to deal with this disease has come from within me, it is not some "blessing' bestowed by the virus...I hate this disease and love my life.....and hope we all live to see the day when HIV is eradicated from the earth....Now if you'll excuse me...Friday is burrito and Margarita night!...
ďKeep up the good work....   And God bless you.Ē
  --  Sarah Palin, to members of the Alaskan Independence Party, 2008

Offline loop78

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #42 on: July 25, 2008, 09:36:58 PM »
I am bored by people who can swallow 8 inches but gag on a not so big Truvada.

It seems gag reflex is selective.  ;)

Anyway, I cannot agree with a conception of virtue as something opposed to having sex, nor with one that lets thousands of people die each year in its name.

Hiv does not exist to teach us anything, it just is.

Offline YaKaMein

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #43 on: July 26, 2008, 03:03:55 AM »
Surprisingly, can this has been one of the best threads yet?

 ;D or am I hitting the Atripla a little heavy tonight? ???
« Last Edit: July 26, 2008, 03:06:08 AM by YaKaMein »
09/11 Endocrine Consult
08/11 CD4 328 14.9% VL 0
 Disc'd Bactrim DEXA -3.1 Tscore
03/11 CD4 338 14.7% VL 0
11/10 CD4 300 14.3% VL 0 <20copies
07/10 CD4 336 14.0% VL 0 DEXA -2.7 Tscore
03/10 CD4 308 13.4% VL 0 Vit D normal
01/10 Began FOTO
11/09 CD4 274 13.7% VL 0 Chol 173 Trig 131
07/09 CD4 324 13.5% VL 0 DEXA -3.1 Tscore lumbar
03/09 CD4 207 10.9% VL 0
11/08 CD4 227 10.3% VL 0 Chol 176 Trig 156
04/08 CD4 228 9.5% VL 0
01/08 CD4 194 9.0% VL 0
09/07 CD4 176 8.3% VL 0
03/07 CD4 130 9.5% VL 0 Chol 261  Trig 227
12/06 CD4 109 6.4% VL 0
09/06 CD4  88 5.5% VL und desens'd rtd to Bactrim
08/06  Began Atripla
07/06 CD4  59 5.0% VL 145 Chol 117 Trig 104
06/06  Bactrim rash, X2 Dapsone
 EFV & Truvada Chol 128 Trig 131
05/06 CD4  6 (2.0%) VL 78667 only V179D mutation Dx PC MAC

Offline northernguy

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #44 on: July 26, 2008, 10:18:35 PM »
I've never had a rampant, indiscriminate orgy*, but it sounds like fun.  Was I supposed to get one with my HIV kit?  If so, how do I let the makers know it was missing?

*under 5 people and its not an orgy, right?  Certainly not worthy of the adjectives rampant and indiscriminate
« Last Edit: July 26, 2008, 10:25:04 PM by northernguy »
Apr 28/06 cd4 600 vl 10,600 cd% 25
Nov 8/09 cd4 510 vl 49,5000 cd% 16
Jan 16/10 cd4 660 vl 54,309 cd% 16
Feb 17/10 Started Atripla
Mar 7/10 cd4 710 vl 1,076 cd% 21
Apr 18/10 cd4 920 vl 268 cd% 28
Jun 19/10 cd4 450 vl 60 cd% 25
Aug 15/10 cd4 680 vl 205 cd% 27
Apr 3/11 cd4 780 vl <40 cd% 30
Jul 17/11 cd4 960 vl <40 cd%33
April 15/12 cd4 1,010 vl <40 cd% 39
April 20/12 Switched to Viramune + Truvada
Aug 2/12 cd4 1040, vl <40, cd% 38
Oct 19 cd4 1,110 vl <40 cd% 41

Offline komnaes

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #45 on: July 27, 2008, 12:10:08 AM »
If an omnipotent but non-omniscient God came down from heaven and said "hey, I've been away for while and I haven't had time to study the situation -- do you think the human race is ready for an HIV cure yet?"  I would tell him no, without hesitation.

All I can say is - if that EVER is to happen, I hope this "God" does not consult your opinion.

Why are we not ready? Just tell ONE good reason. If you're NOT at least let him gives it to the rest - inclusive of those poor donors in China who sold their blood so they could eat, many medical practitioners who contacted it accidentally, babies who were born with it, etc. Maybe in your "opinion" they deserve more of a break than us who got it through risky unsafe sex, right? How do you figure you should say no for all of us, all of those?
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline Iggy

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #46 on: July 27, 2008, 10:37:16 AM »
I actually like Iggy's list.  When we have #3, we'll be more worthy of #2.... and when we have #2, we'll be more worthy of #1. 

Skeptik, 

I really don't appreciate how you thanked me for my post and then used it as a springboard to basically say the opposite of my point.

My three wishes you misrepresent above actually preclude the idea that people have to be worthy of some artificial benchmark  in order to have HIV eradicated or to be free of stigma, prejudice and discrimination.

Your welcome to your opinion, but I respectfully ask you not to make it by misrepresenting what I was stating.




Offline Winiroo

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #47 on: July 27, 2008, 03:08:55 PM »
I missed out on the whole indiscriminate sex drugs rock n roll orgyfest party in order to get HIV.
I guess I was sinful in some other way in order to be cursed with HIV.

LOL  :P

Offline emeraldize

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #48 on: July 27, 2008, 03:41:46 PM »
Newt,
Believing in this instance, brevity will lead to clarity, I write to convey my thanks.
Em


This is an interesting thread but in truth I am bored by the existential aspects of HIV.

I am bored by people obsessing about whether a lipstick is a risk factor, whether their lives are better for cleaning up, whether their lives will even be the same again.

I am bored by people wrapped up in their own angst they can't spot a really ill person (cos some of us are still).

I am bored by sympathy.

I am bored by ambivalence to meds, they work most times dammit.

I am bored by drugs with crap side effects that wouldn't get approval for any other condition.

I am bored by people who can swallow 8 inches but gag on a not so big Truvada.

I am bored by people with real issues getting the least time/voice and them with none/few (like and on the sly bj or a minor, short term rash) getting a hog load.

I am bored by crap pediatric dosing of ARVs.

I am bored at the cult of bareback. I am especially bored, and still angry at negative and untested gay men's stupidity, and preference not to discuss HIV status.

I am well and truly bored by UNGASS, but still angry at detention of HIV educators in Iran and torture of gay men in Egypt.

I am bored by myself. I am lucky but not unusual, I had to shape up, lay off the wine and acknowledge I ain't gonna die so easy and am not really all that sick. I went into spin when my CD4 jumped into normal range because somehow the status of being ill evaporated and it was kick up my my proverbial (arse).

It's just a virus, not a moral judgement, it's not some great karmic scythe.

In my experience straight folk are as sleazy and/or boring in bed a gay folk, the only thing that holds straight folk back is the downward pressure of kids/family, for whom i am thankful to say most show real love and responsibility. Gay folk with kids is no different, there's just less of us.

If HIV gets you a better life good, if it gets you a worse one, bad, if it screws your head, get over it, life is precious and you ain't gonna die easy, most likely. It's just a virus, not a moral judgement.

It's not divine justice, or evolutionary, it's just a fact.

I am also bored by Sartre, who I have deicded was a homophobe ... his big idea on authenticity in Nausea, he just didn't get the working queer class radicalism of camp.

Thank you creator for the world in its complexity.

- matt (mostly bored but a bit angry too) the newt

Now playing: Sailing By, radio 4 endpiece signature tune


Offline Peter Staley

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Re: is it just me?
« Reply #49 on: July 27, 2008, 05:27:31 PM »
I have to ditto Em.  Matt -- this is one of my all-time favorite posts in these forums.

Thanks,

Peter

This is an interesting thread but in truth I am bored by the existential aspects of HIV.

I am bored by people obsessing about whether a lipstick is a risk factor, whether their lives are better for cleaning up, whether their lives will even be the same again.

I am bored by people wrapped up in their own angst they can't spot a really ill person (cos some of us are still).

I am bored by sympathy.

I am bored by ambivalence to meds, they work most times dammit.

I am bored by drugs with crap side effects that wouldn't get approval for any other condition.

I am bored by people who can swallow 8 inches but gag on a not so big Truvada.

I am bored by people with real issues getting the least time/voice and them with none/few (like and on the sly bj or a minor, short term rash) getting a hog load.

I am bored by crap pediatric dosing of ARVs.

I am bored at the cult of bareback. I am especially bored, and still angry at negative and untested gay men's stupidity, and preference not to discuss HIV status.

I am well and truly bored by UNGASS, but still angry at detention of HIV educators in Iran and torture of gay men in Egypt.

I am bored by myself. I am lucky but not unusual, I had to shape up, lay off the wine and acknowledge I ain't gonna die so easy and am not really all that sick. I went into spin when my CD4 jumped into normal range because somehow the status of being ill evaporated and it was kick up my my proverbial (arse).

It's just a virus, not a moral judgement, it's not some great karmic scythe.

In my experience straight folk are as sleazy and/or boring in bed a gay folk, the only thing that holds straight folk back is the downward pressure of kids/family, for whom i am thankful to say most show real love and responsibility. Gay folk with kids is no different, there's just less of us.

If HIV gets you a better life good, if it gets you a worse one, bad, if it screws your head, get over it, life is precious and you ain't gonna die easy, most likely. It's just a virus, not a moral judgement.

It's not divine justice, or evolutionary, it's just a fact.

I am also bored by Sartre, who I have deicded was a homophobe ... his big idea on authenticity in Nausea, he just didn't get the working queer class radicalism of camp.

Thank you creator for the world in its complexity.

- matt (mostly bored but a bit angry too) the newt

Now playing: Sailing By, radio 4 endpiece signature tune


 


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