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Author Topic: My new numbers  (Read 2251 times)

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Offline michaelman333

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  • Posts: 56
  • Chaos and reason collide
    • My Facebook
My new numbers
« on: July 19, 2008, 07:45:28 AM »
So i just started seeing a new doc and I just got my newest numbers back ...

*The T cells are at 515 and 23%.
*The HIV viral load is undetectable.
*Lliver and kidneys and the other common blood chemistries, including
your blood glucose level are normal.
*Vitamin B12 and the Vitamin D levels are normal.
*Thyroid is perfect.
*Testosterone level is right in the middle of normal at 548 ng/dl....

So i am still trying to figure out why i am still so tired... it has been a bit over two and a half years since my diagnosis. I am still exhausted, losing interest in so many things, depressed, and just a lack of energy in general...

with numbers like these i would think that i would have an upbeat air about me... or at least feel more energy. ... any idea... I do start seeing a therapist for mental health on monday...

thanx




06/29/09 ---- CD4- 392 (20%)   VL-Und
02/19/09 ---- CD4- 513 (23%)   VL-Und
01/11/09 ---- Switched Atripla
11/05/08 ---- CD4- 462 (23%)   VL - Und
04/01/06 ---- CD4- 274 (19%)   VL - 1200
03/20/06 ---- Started Truvada/Azatanovir/Ritonavir
02/28/06 ---- CD4- 219 (17%)   VL - 217,000
Diagnosed HIV+ 11/30/2005

You said I was lost/Wrong again
Said I had crossed that/Line again
Made it to easy to/Scream again
Made me feel queazy/Let me in
~~MLH

Offline auspoz

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  • Posts: 153
Re: My new numbers
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2008, 07:51:05 AM »
Hi Michaelman 333,

Congratulations on your good looking numbers. I got my latest last week- CD4 540, vl 20200. I forget the % and will need to start writing things down now.

I'm sorry I can't help with the fatigue ideas. I'm sure some more experienced people will soon be along to give you some ideas.

Take care,

Auspoz.

Offline Lorenzopier

  • Member
  • Posts: 90
Re: My new numbers
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2008, 08:55:04 AM »
Hello Michael,

The multitude of symptoms you are describing are very familiar to me and are causing a lot of grief for a lot of people who are Poz.Some people are able to get alleviation of at least some of these symptoms from conventional medicine.I experienced immediate relief of the symptoms you are describing by taking counter measures to restore eicosanoid balance. Please consult a medical doctor before using supplements,there may be interactions.This is the regiment that i currently use to maintain eicosanoid balance.

For the omega 3 essential fatty acid i use 2 capsules of fish oil with each meal.Each capsule contains 1 gram of fish oil.
For the omega 6 essential fatty acid i use 1 capsule of borage oil with each meal.Each capsule contains 1 gram of borage oil.
For CLA (conjugated linoleic acid) i use 1 gram with each meal.
In addition i use 250 milligrams of niacin a day in the form of niacinamide,just in case the cholesterol and triglyceride levels attempt to go into a higher range while supplementing with the fish oil.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2008, 01:22:06 PM by Lorenzopier »

Offline Robert

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,639
Re: My new numbers
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2008, 11:32:09 AM »
 I blame the meds but I'm not sure you're on them yet. 

What about exercise?  When I could, the first thing I did every morning was to row hard for an hour.  When I finished I felt exhilarated and ready to face the day.  I would suggest a good daily dose of hard exercise. 

What about pills?  Are you taking any antidepressants?  That can help.

But to really combat that terrible feeling of fatigue and ennui, strenuous exercise is the best antidote.

robert 
..........

Offline Miss Philicia

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  • Posts: 23,569
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: My new numbers
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2008, 01:32:46 PM »
Depression can easily cause fatigue, as can low testosterone levels -- but you've ruled out the latter.  Some studies have shown the rate of depression in HIV patients to be 60%, as opposed to 5-10% of the general population.  I'd wager that of that 60% only half do anything about it, and even less enter into one-on-one talk therapy.

Considering some of your other recent posts I'd highly consider depression as the source.  You first mentioned being depressed two years ago in a post.  Medication for depression can help short term, but most medical professionals will strongly recommend doing this in conjunction with therapy sessions.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Tricialuko

  • Member
  • Posts: 6
Re: My new numbers
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2008, 02:08:54 PM »
i also have been positive for 2 and a half yrs and im tired all the time too my latest numbers were cd4 260 and vl undetectable though it was 10000 just 2 months ago i dont take any meds by choice but being tired all the time is definatly a problem so if you get any more info on it please let me know
shawni

Offline LordBerners

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  • Posts: 415
Re: My new numbers
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2008, 05:20:04 PM »
It seems exhaustion and depression are normal side effects of many of the anti-hiv medications, michealman.
Please, just call me Berners.. or Baron.

Offline rondrond

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,712
Re: My new numbers
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2008, 11:11:32 PM »
Hey michaelman,
I too am waiting for an increase in  ..energy....

I've read that it will come...

congrats on reaching undetectable with good numbers

ronnie
"I may not be exactly where I want to be, but I sure as Hell am not where I was"
Wynnona Judd

Diagnosed/HIV
1993
AZT
Norvir
1994-2001
Crixivan/Epivir/Zerit
No Meds for 7 Years

04jul07/DVT-right leg/Bi Lateral PE's     
16oct08/DVT-left leg
Sept '09  6 blood clots in left arm
Coumadin 5mgs
                                     
Atenolol/50mg/2x
Hydrochlorth 25mg/1x
Gemfibrozil/300mgs/2X
Symbicort
Proventil Inhaler
Potassium
Rhinocort


*APR 08~Viramune/Truvada
March08  CD4 330 23% VL 452.000 
*Jan09 Med change~Epzicom/Viramune

Aug09   CD4 523 23%  VL<48
Diagnosed: COPD
Dec 2013: CD4 645 45% VL 49
Med Change: Viramune/Epivir/Ziagen/Isentress

Offline Peter Staley

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  • Founder & Advisory Editor, AIDSmeds.com
    • AIDSmeds.com
Re: My new numbers
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2008, 08:55:26 AM »
It seems exhaustion and depression are normal side effects of many of the anti-hiv medications, michealman.

LordBerners -- I wouldn't call fatigue a "normal" side effect.  Most people I know on treatment are NOT fatigued all day.  Yes, it is a side effect that happens to a minority of patients on treatment.  Clinical studies show that fatigue happens in up to 9% of those taking Kaletra, and 8% of those taking Sustiva, for instance.  Most of the other meds have shown the same or lower stats in their trials.

Typically, these numbers are the same in the control group (usually the control group is on another combo of HIV meds).  Even in the early clinical trials of drugs like AZT and Crixivan, when they tested them against placebos, they showed low levels (less than 5%) of fatigue, about the same as the placebo.

With the exception of Sustiva, none of the HIV meds are associated with depression, according to clinical trials data.

Peter

Offline LordBerners

  • Member
  • Posts: 415
Re: My new numbers
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2008, 05:25:25 AM »
I stand corrected, Peter.  I made the foolish error of extrapolating from my own anecdotal experience. 
Please, just call me Berners.. or Baron.

Offline Lorenzopier

  • Member
  • Posts: 90
Re: My new numbers
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2008, 06:33:13 PM »
Hello Micheal

This article contains a little information on some of the elementary functions of eicosanoids, and their inflammation modulating effects in the mind and body.

http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/Cavanagh3.html
« Last Edit: July 23, 2008, 10:40:12 AM by Lorenzopier »

Offline rick21007

  • Member
  • Posts: 286
Re: My new numbers
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2008, 06:49:15 PM »
depressed mood, loss of interest/ability to feel pleasure or enjoyment, and low energy are together indicators of clinical depression where low dopamine levels in the brain are the culprit.  You didn't say anything about your background but folks who have been addicted to opiates in the past typically experience this kind of depression.   Glad you are planning to get treatment.  Good move.

rick

Offline michaelman333

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  • Posts: 56
  • Chaos and reason collide
    • My Facebook
Re: My new numbers
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2008, 10:04:41 AM »
depressed mood, loss of interest/ability to feel pleasure or enjoyment, and low energy are together indicators of clinical depression where low dopamine levels in the brain are the culprit.  You didn't say anything about your background but folks who have been addicted to opiates in the past typically experience this kind of depression.   Glad you are planning to get treatment.  Good move.

rick

Thank you rick ... i started therapy yesterday and it would seem it is clinical depression... never been on opiates or any drug aside from my hiv meds ... :)

thankc for the words though
06/29/09 ---- CD4- 392 (20%)   VL-Und
02/19/09 ---- CD4- 513 (23%)   VL-Und
01/11/09 ---- Switched Atripla
11/05/08 ---- CD4- 462 (23%)   VL - Und
04/01/06 ---- CD4- 274 (19%)   VL - 1200
03/20/06 ---- Started Truvada/Azatanovir/Ritonavir
02/28/06 ---- CD4- 219 (17%)   VL - 217,000
Diagnosed HIV+ 11/30/2005

You said I was lost/Wrong again
Said I had crossed that/Line again
Made it to easy to/Scream again
Made me feel queazy/Let me in
~~MLH

Offline newt

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,868
  • the one and original newt
Re: My new numbers
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2008, 01:38:58 PM »
Michael,

Cognitive behavioural therapy as at least as good as meds for depression (I can send studies) and also good for fatigue, strangely (I can't send a bloody good study on this til the researchers publish the damn thing)

On what the studies do or don't say on fatigue. I differ in my reading..

The pre-marketing reports, and post-marketing reports on ARVs all under-report "lifestyle" side effects, eg look at the rate of problematic ongoing CNS side effects reported in UK clinics from Sustiva (20-30%) and the consequent discontinuation rate, compared to the published studies.

I would call "fatigue" a normal but wily side effect of many HIV meds, it's common and underestimated (in my humble but informed opinion) in terms of long-term management.  It is perhaps the most difficult thing to tease out, because there are many causes, but meds can be one.

But of course there could be many other causes. Mood/cognition being one.

Indeed, as far as meds and fatigue goes, I am not surprised, given ARVs effect on glucose, phosphorus and lipid metabolisms.. not to mention the calcium channel pathway etc ..oh, and mitochondria too. Boo! metabolics! fatigue! so boo! to what the "official" studies say.

- matt
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline Peter Staley

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  • Posts: 1,337
  • Founder & Advisory Editor, AIDSmeds.com
    • AIDSmeds.com
Re: My new numbers
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2008, 09:46:06 AM »
Matt -- I stand corrected. LOL.  Actually, I agree with you that most of the clinical trials typically undercount how much of a side effect is going on.  Tim Horn reminded me that there have been HIV cohort studies showing fatigue in close to 50% of patients.

I'm wondering if the most likely cause is immune activation (ie inflammation), like this fascinating new study suggests (mostly applies to depression, but I'd think fatigue could apply as well):

http://www.aidsmeds.com/articles/aids_depression_immune_1667_14940.shtml


Offline AlanBama

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Re: My new numbers
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2008, 10:05:08 AM »
Michael,

I concur with Philly, it is most likely depression.   Believe it or not, it can cause you to be VERY fatigued....just that 'deflated' sense, and you don't want to do anything, or go anywhere.   I struggle with it on a daily basis.   You just have to push through it honey.   The antidepressants help.

I'm on a new one (for me) Celexa.   Just started it last week -- so far, so good.

hugs !
Alan
"Remember my sentimental friend that a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others." - The Wizard of Oz

 


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