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Author Topic: Temporary Group Moderator Faux Paus  (Read 3560 times)

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Offline next2u

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Temporary Group Moderator Faux Paus
« on: July 16, 2008, 10:30:59 AM »
hello,

so, last night at our hiv group we had a sub. our fearless leader was on vacation in ps sipping margaritas and staring at mighty hot ass. this covering moderator, however fabulous, made a comment, repeated it 3 times, substantiated it with personal knowledge, and left me feeling not so warm and fuzzy.

the moderator said there would be no cure for hiv/aids within our life times. said it matter of factly, said it irrefutably, repeated this phrase, gave a truncated version of why they believed this was so (gets into the dna). as an offer of hope, a compromise, whatever, we (18 or so of us) were told that the drugs would advance and allow the disease to become ineffective.

i don't feel it was necessary to share this bit of information with a group of hiv positive people for a number of reasons. one, this was a temp person who did not have that rapport with all members of our group. two, members of our group are at different places in their hiv journey. some, like myself, did not want to embrace this viewpoint. three, it was not done in a manner conducive to the members of our group.  four, it was kind of pointless, there was no where to go with this comment and it did not provide any growth, awakening, revelation etc... for our members. hell, it did not even inspire conversation.

im not looking to start a debate on whether there will be a cure. i just don't believe it was something that a temp leader should say in front of a group of people they do not know (a therapist usually leads the group who has a more intimate knowledge of our members). especially when the group consists of many people who are struggling with their status and who have other hiv related concerns. it seemed ill-presented and i left feeling disheartened.  of course, i aired my thoughts near the end in a fairly calm and non-aggressive manner.

 
« Last Edit: July 16, 2008, 08:34:34 PM by next2u »
midapr07 - seroconversion
sept07 - tested poz
oct07 cd4 1013; vl 13,900; cd4% 41
feb08 cd4  694;  vl 16,160; cd4% 50.1
may08 cd4 546; vl 91,480; cd4% 32
aug08 cd4 576; vl 48,190; cd4% 40.7
dec08 cd4 559; vl 63,020; cd4% 29.4
feb09 cd4 464; vl 11,000; cd4% 26
may09 cd4 544; vl 29,710; cd4% 27.2
oct09 cd4 ...; vl 23,350; cd4% 31.6
mar10 cd4 408; vl 59,050; cd4% 31.4
aug10 cd4 328; vl 80,000; cd4% 19.3 STARTED ATRIPLA
oct10 cd4 423; vl 410 ;); cd4% 30.2
jun11 cd4 439; vl <20 ;); cd4% 33.8 <-Undetectable!
mar12 cd4 695; vl ud; cd4% 38.6
jan13 cd4 738; vl ud; cd4% 36.8
aug13 cd4 930; vl ud; cd4% 44.3
jan14 cd4 813; vl ud; cd4% 42.8
may14 cd4 783; vl *; cd4%43.5

Offline ozzie

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Re: Temporary Group Moderator Faux Paus
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2008, 10:38:12 AM »
I agree with you.. pointless comment... I mean it might be true what he said but why the need to say it.. and repeat it  ???  Careless people  :-\

Offline Cliff

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Re: Temporary Group Moderator Faux Paus
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2008, 11:10:34 AM »
Is the issue that he said it or that you felt as though you couldn't debate the comment? 

I wouldn't have a problem with someone saying it in a HIV support group, if I'm allowed to disagree with it.  Some people do believe there will never be a cure and they may be right.  Or they may be wrong.  The fact that there may never be a cure, is probably something that we will all have to get comfortable with (or at least acknowledge) at some point, and perhaps saying so in a HIV group is the appropriate place.

Offline Iggy

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Re: Temporary Group Moderator Faux Paus
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2008, 12:21:47 PM »
Pretty much echoing Cliff's take and his question.

I don't think the moderator should have repeated himself three times though as it does seem like he was trying to own the conversation rather then to facilitate it.

Offline David_CA

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Re: Temporary Group Moderator Faux Paus
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2008, 12:45:12 PM »
Obviously, I hope there's a cure, but I'm not going to delude myself in thinking that I'll be HIV- soon!  I can see why the mod. repeated that there would not be a cure.  I imagine that a lot of the folks in the group are fairly newly diagnosed (I could be wrong, obviously).  I can see that he wanted each person to understand "I am HIV+.  I will always be HIV+.  I now have to learn how to live as an HIV+ person" or something along those lines.

Quote
four, it was kind of pointless, there was no where to go with this comment and it did not provide any growth, awakening, revelation etc... for our members.

I completely disagree with that. I think I would have followed up the statement about there not being a cure with "So now what are we to do?" or "What now?".  I think that can lead to all kinds of discussions all relating to the fact that we now live with HIV: compliance to meds, discrimination / stigma, activism, treatment coverage, etc.  I think that if I'd been present when he said that about there not being a cure I'd have said "Yeah, and so what?"  Like Cliff said, it "... is probably something that we will all have to get comfortable with..."

David
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline BT65

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Re: Temporary Group Moderator Faux Paus
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2008, 12:53:26 PM »
I think the temporary facilitator acted like a total ass.  First of all, he was only a fill-in.  He doesn't know all the members of the group.

2nd, when giving a statement like that, I would want to see some kind of scientific report that clearly states that as a conclusion.

3rd, he really didn't need to repeat it 3 times.  I'm sure once got his view across.

I would have asked if he could guarantee me 100% that there will be no cure in our lifetime.  I, myself, don't believe I'll see a cure, but I'm sure not going to echo that sentiment to a group of people I don't even know (especially when some of them are newly diagnosed and struggling just accept their HIV+ status). 
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline Winiroo

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Re: Temporary Group Moderator Faux Paus
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2008, 01:29:20 PM »
I'm not counting on a cure but it sure would be nice.

If this is a support group the doom and gloom conversation isn't terribly conducive to happy feelings.
His pessimistic outlook would have likely rubbed me the wrong way also.
Me being the mouth that I seem to be lately I'd likely have told him to shut it. Even though he was likely trying to sound intelligent and up to date on facts I'm certain I would want to remind him that his crystal ball might not always be 100% effective and that his theory on future events was dim and disheartening.

Offline John2038

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Re: Temporary Group Moderator Faux Paus
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2008, 01:42:30 PM »
If you can wait, you will see the cure.

Now as long as my lifespan come back to normal with no drugs/hiv side effect of any kind, I would be already happy.

To find a cure, we will need to make keys discoveries [and to understand that they are key discoveries!].
I am confident that such discoveries will be made sooner or later and that some have been already made.

Then we will need to understand how important such discoveries in order to use the to find the cure.

This will happen a day or another, no ? Yes, for sure !
And we could probably save a tremendous amount of time if we could be able, worldwide, to have a systematical approach on the research on HIV.

Something like a tree showing all the different paths to a cure, each path being prioritized in terms of money, but working on all of them simultaneously (if no dependencies). We need such synergy, such global effort. But I doubt this will never happen before the next millennium. Our world is too selfish for that today.

Without Newton, the discovery of the Universal Law of Gravitation might have take maybe 50 years more after him.
Without Einstein, the Law of the Relativity might have take 50 years more as well to be discovered after him.
Etc..

But since the discovery of these theories, our understanding of the world have immediately changed. Their impact was unpredictable, because they were major discoveries.

It is like if you were asking, just before Newton how long time it will take to explain the movement of the planet ?, or just before Einstein, can a mass change the path of a photon ? Is the line the shortest path between 2 points ?
Probably everybody will have tell you: No idea, maybe In 100 years we will know, or never.
But just after their discoveries, came the explanation.

What I want to say is: we need to find the Newton or the Einstein of the biology to make a major discovery.
And once this discovery will happen, things can go very fast. How, nobody knows.
Up to the discovery.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2008, 02:15:39 PM by John2038 »

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Temporary Group Moderator Faux Paus
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2008, 01:59:24 PM »
If you can wait, you will see the cure.

That's as silly a statement as the converse position the fill-in moderator took.  You don't know that, and the fill-in moderator doesn't know.

Why do people insist on making these absurd wide-sweeping statements of 110% infallibility about a subject like this?
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline John2038

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Re: Temporary Group Moderator Faux Paus
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2008, 02:25:39 PM »
Sorry if it hurt anyone ! Its stupid how I said that.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2008, 02:28:14 PM by John2038 »

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Temporary Group Moderator Faux Paus
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2008, 02:31:46 PM »
And before anyone here thinks I jumped the gun with John2038 please note that he greatly edited his post 15 minutes after my comment.

And John, I wasn't "hurt" -- wtf.  But now that you mention it, your fixation with the "cure subject" is most likely what this fill-in moderator was, however clumsy, trying to address.  In that respect I acknowledge what he was trying to do and think it's a waste of time and energy to latch on to every headline on the internet about AIDS cures on a daily basis.  Not to mention your edited post has little to do with the fill-in moderator's phrasing of "in our lifetime."

Why do I say this? -- oh, just 15 years of seeing it, that's all.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline John2038

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Re: Temporary Group Moderator Faux Paus
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2008, 02:35:58 PM »
.. he greatly edited his post 15 minutes after my comment.

I haven't change anything related to your comment. What do you mean ??
When you edit, someone can post without you get a change to see his post !
I have change nothing related to your comment, which is just your comment at the end !

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Temporary Group Moderator Faux Paus
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2008, 02:39:08 PM »
I haven't change anything related to your comment. What do you mean ??
When you edit, someone can post without you get a change to see his post !
I have change nothing related to your comment, which is just your comment at the end !

sure John
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline John2038

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Re: Temporary Group Moderator Faux Paus
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2008, 02:53:29 PM »
The less you will judge others, the wiser and happier you will become.

Offline Winiroo

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Re: Temporary Group Moderator Faux Paus
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2008, 03:45:16 PM »
It must be time to take my old HIV infested brain out and give her a good washing. Either that or its nap time.
I didn't understand much of the last several comments. LOL

Offline YaKaMein

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Re: Temporary Group Moderator Faux Paus
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2008, 04:37:42 PM »
Personally, if I were a group member, I'd take it for what it was ... his opinion [accurate or inaccurate] ... everybody's got one right?

However, as a group leader or facilitator, he needed to state explicitly that it t'was his opinion ... and everybody's got right?  ::)
09/11 Endocrine Consult
08/11 CD4 328 14.9% VL 0
 Disc'd Bactrim DEXA -3.1 Tscore
03/11 CD4 338 14.7% VL 0
11/10 CD4 300 14.3% VL 0 <20copies
07/10 CD4 336 14.0% VL 0 DEXA -2.7 Tscore
03/10 CD4 308 13.4% VL 0 Vit D normal
01/10 Began FOTO
11/09 CD4 274 13.7% VL 0 Chol 173 Trig 131
07/09 CD4 324 13.5% VL 0 DEXA -3.1 Tscore lumbar
03/09 CD4 207 10.9% VL 0
11/08 CD4 227 10.3% VL 0 Chol 176 Trig 156
04/08 CD4 228 9.5% VL 0
01/08 CD4 194 9.0% VL 0
09/07 CD4 176 8.3% VL 0
03/07 CD4 130 9.5% VL 0 Chol 261  Trig 227
12/06 CD4 109 6.4% VL 0
09/06 CD4  88 5.5% VL und desens'd rtd to Bactrim
08/06  Began Atripla
07/06 CD4  59 5.0% VL 145 Chol 117 Trig 104
06/06  Bactrim rash, X2 Dapsone
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05/06 CD4  6 (2.0%) VL 78667 only V179D mutation Dx PC MAC

Offline next2u

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Re: Temporary Group Moderator Faux Paus
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2008, 08:46:37 PM »
whoa - thank you everyone for input. i was really just venting about the situation. why do you assume this person was male? i made it a a point not to identify the gender of the guest moderator.

"Is the issue that he said it or that you felt as though you couldn't debate the comment? 
I wouldn't have a problem with someone saying it in a HIV support group, if I'm allowed to disagree with it.  Some people do believe there will never be a cure and they may be right.  Or they may be wrong.  The fact that there may never be a cure, is probably something that we will all have to get comfortable with (or at least acknowledge) at some point, and perhaps saying so in a HIV group is the appropriate place."

cliff - we may all have to get comfortable with this, but i believe it should be done within our own time frames. the person who said this is hiv negative (albeit, their partner is a pozzie). the issue is that the person said it. i felt a heaviness in my stomach after it was said. whether i believe in a cure or not really isn't the point. it is the fact that a non-hiv poz person in a position of authority told a group of hiv positive people there would never be a cure - repeatedly, without (this is an assumption) taking into consideration them possible impact of that statement on this group of people. yes, if necessary, we need to grapple with this at some time. but that needs to be on our own time and schedule. it would be more appropriate in my mind if a moderator asked if we thought there would be a cure and then proceeded to engage us in conversation. this moderator could then air their opinion as an opinion (and probably a well educated one). thats all im saying.

"Pretty much echoing Cliff's take and his question.
I don't think the moderator should have repeated himself three times though as it does seem like he was trying to own the conversation rather then to facilitate it."

iggy - same as the response to cliff. the moderator was stating their beliefs as fact. i wholeheartedly disagree in the presentation and it irks me more that it came from a non-poz person.

dude, the temp moderator is a cool person, i just didn't like the way the subject matter was broached and presented. i think it should have been treated more delicately and reserved for it's proper time & context.
midapr07 - seroconversion
sept07 - tested poz
oct07 cd4 1013; vl 13,900; cd4% 41
feb08 cd4  694;  vl 16,160; cd4% 50.1
may08 cd4 546; vl 91,480; cd4% 32
aug08 cd4 576; vl 48,190; cd4% 40.7
dec08 cd4 559; vl 63,020; cd4% 29.4
feb09 cd4 464; vl 11,000; cd4% 26
may09 cd4 544; vl 29,710; cd4% 27.2
oct09 cd4 ...; vl 23,350; cd4% 31.6
mar10 cd4 408; vl 59,050; cd4% 31.4
aug10 cd4 328; vl 80,000; cd4% 19.3 STARTED ATRIPLA
oct10 cd4 423; vl 410 ;); cd4% 30.2
jun11 cd4 439; vl <20 ;); cd4% 33.8 <-Undetectable!
mar12 cd4 695; vl ud; cd4% 38.6
jan13 cd4 738; vl ud; cd4% 36.8
aug13 cd4 930; vl ud; cd4% 44.3
jan14 cd4 813; vl ud; cd4% 42.8
may14 cd4 783; vl *; cd4%43.5

Offline Winiroo

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Re: Temporary Group Moderator Faux Paus
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2008, 09:43:36 PM »
why do you assume this person was male? i made it a a point not to identify the gender of the guest moderator.

With an unknown sex its common to refer to a person as he. No clue why that is. The pronouns 'he', 'his' and 'him' are frequently used as generic pronouns.

Nice catch on the sexist language.

Offline David_CA

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Re: Temporary Group Moderator Faux Paus
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2008, 10:07:26 PM »
With an unknown sex its common to refer to a person as he. No clue why that is. The pronouns 'he', 'his' and 'him' are frequently used as generic pronouns.

I just typed the same basic reply, Wendy.  Mine wasn't quite as polite, though!  Using the male forms is certainly more correct than using 'they' for a singular person.  I did catch the use of 'they' in the thread and wasn't sure why it was used instead of 'he' or 'she'.

David
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Winiroo

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Re: Temporary Group Moderator Faux Paus
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2008, 10:14:44 PM »
In all honesty I totally pictured a male. But I like picturing men so there!

LOL

Offline next2u

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Re: Temporary Group Moderator Faux Paus
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2008, 10:29:45 PM »
come on now, they is completely acceptable in the modern world as the neuter for personal pronouns. while not standard, it is acceptable and commonly used when a specific sex is not referenced.

taken from wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammatical_gender

Personal pronouns
Main articles: Gender-specific pronoun and Gender-neutral pronoun
Personal pronouns often have different forms based on gender. Even though it has lost grammatical gender, English still distinguishes between "he" (generally applied to a male person), "she" (female person), and "it" (object, abstraction, or animal). But this also does not guarantee the existence of grammatical gender. There is a spoken form, "they", which although not part of the standard literary language, is cosmopolitan in the English-speaking world and is used when the gender of a person being referred to is not known (e.g. "This person doesn't know where they are going").
midapr07 - seroconversion
sept07 - tested poz
oct07 cd4 1013; vl 13,900; cd4% 41
feb08 cd4  694;  vl 16,160; cd4% 50.1
may08 cd4 546; vl 91,480; cd4% 32
aug08 cd4 576; vl 48,190; cd4% 40.7
dec08 cd4 559; vl 63,020; cd4% 29.4
feb09 cd4 464; vl 11,000; cd4% 26
may09 cd4 544; vl 29,710; cd4% 27.2
oct09 cd4 ...; vl 23,350; cd4% 31.6
mar10 cd4 408; vl 59,050; cd4% 31.4
aug10 cd4 328; vl 80,000; cd4% 19.3 STARTED ATRIPLA
oct10 cd4 423; vl 410 ;); cd4% 30.2
jun11 cd4 439; vl <20 ;); cd4% 33.8 <-Undetectable!
mar12 cd4 695; vl ud; cd4% 38.6
jan13 cd4 738; vl ud; cd4% 36.8
aug13 cd4 930; vl ud; cd4% 44.3
jan14 cd4 813; vl ud; cd4% 42.8
may14 cd4 783; vl *; cd4%43.5

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Temporary Group Moderator Faux Paus
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2008, 10:44:56 PM »
It says "they" is acceptable in spoken form, not written.  I use "he/she" if the pronoun is singular, indeterminate gender, and the writing is informal.  I believe the correct formal written choice would be "he or she."

But then I only have a degree in art so what do I know?
« Last Edit: July 16, 2008, 10:46:48 PM by philly267 »
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline next2u

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Re: Temporary Group Moderator Faux Paus
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2008, 10:57:48 PM »
shit artman, my degree is in social sciences. so, i spoke with my girl who has a degree in english. she said both forms are acceptable but that he or she is the preferred written form. if it were a formal piece, im sure it would be worded differently but they would still be used at some point.



midapr07 - seroconversion
sept07 - tested poz
oct07 cd4 1013; vl 13,900; cd4% 41
feb08 cd4  694;  vl 16,160; cd4% 50.1
may08 cd4 546; vl 91,480; cd4% 32
aug08 cd4 576; vl 48,190; cd4% 40.7
dec08 cd4 559; vl 63,020; cd4% 29.4
feb09 cd4 464; vl 11,000; cd4% 26
may09 cd4 544; vl 29,710; cd4% 27.2
oct09 cd4 ...; vl 23,350; cd4% 31.6
mar10 cd4 408; vl 59,050; cd4% 31.4
aug10 cd4 328; vl 80,000; cd4% 19.3 STARTED ATRIPLA
oct10 cd4 423; vl 410 ;); cd4% 30.2
jun11 cd4 439; vl <20 ;); cd4% 33.8 <-Undetectable!
mar12 cd4 695; vl ud; cd4% 38.6
jan13 cd4 738; vl ud; cd4% 36.8
aug13 cd4 930; vl ud; cd4% 44.3
jan14 cd4 813; vl ud; cd4% 42.8
may14 cd4 783; vl *; cd4%43.5

Offline David_CA

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Re: Temporary Group Moderator Faux Paus
« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2008, 11:37:08 PM »
shit artman, my degree is in social sciences. so, i spoke with my girl who has a degree in english. she said both forms are acceptable but that he or she is the preferred written form. if it were a formal piece, im sure it would be worded differently but they would still be used at some point.


Whatever.  I still find it strange that you "...made it a a point not to identify the gender of the guest moderator."
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
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09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
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Offline joemutt

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Re: Temporary Group Moderator Faux Paus
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2008, 11:47:55 PM »
Maybe , maybe not but I guess those comments of a moderator weren't
exactly 'helpful'.

Offline Cliff

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Re: Temporary Group Moderator Faux Paus
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2008, 05:51:59 AM »
i think it should have been treated more delicately and reserved for it's proper time & context.
I think discussing the possibility of a cure in a HIV support group is the the proper time & context.  I probably would not have cared whether the moderator was a temp or not, nor whether they were HIV positive (probably would have simply assumed that they were). 

It's not realistic to gauge where each of your audience is with this disease when deciding whether or not to discuss HIV cures, or lack thereof.  We are all in different places and you will never be able to guarantee that everyone is ready to discuss it.  If she mentioned it at the first meeting of a newly infected hiv support group, I could see your concern.

It sounds like she made the point in an unhelpful manner.  But as long as the group was in a position to discuss it (agree or disagree with her opinion), I don't see the harm.  We all know some people believe there will be or there will never be a cure, but that shouldn't impact our own opinion/beliefs.

Cliff

P.S.-  I don't think people were being sexist by using he instead of she or they.

Offline BT65

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Re: Temporary Group Moderator Faux Paus
« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2008, 07:45:20 AM »
It's not realistic to gauge where each of your audience is with this disease when deciding whether or not to discuss HIV cures, or lack thereof.  We are all in different places and you will never be able to guarantee that everyone is ready to discuss it. 

The 2nd sentence made more sense than the first.  While one doesn't have to "gauge" where everyone is at, one should assume that not everyone is at the same place.
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline Iggy

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Re: Temporary Group Moderator Faux Paus
« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2008, 09:26:23 AM »
iggy - same as the response to cliff. the moderator was stating their beliefs as fact. i wholeheartedly disagree in the presentation and it irks me more that it came from a non-poz person.

Ok,  I get what you are saying with your clarification.  Like I said in my original post, I had an issue with the moderator repeating the point three times as it does seem like she forget her role as a facilitator of the conversations and not the owner.

The fact that she is neg however greatly aids me in understanding your anger about the situation.  While I don't have an issue with a neg person being a moderator of a poz group per se, I would have an issue with someone who is not poz taking such a headstrong stance in a support group for people with HIV. 

Offline next2u

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Re: Temporary Group Moderator Faux Paus
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2008, 11:46:56 AM »
I think discussing the possibility of a cure in a HIV support group is the the proper time & context.  I probably would not have cared whether the moderator was a temp or not, nor whether they were HIV positive (probably would have simply assumed that they were). 

It's not realistic to gauge where each of your audience is with this disease when deciding whether or not to discuss HIV cures, or lack thereof.  We are all in different places and you will never be able to guarantee that everyone is ready to discuss it.  If she mentioned it at the first meeting of a newly infected hiv support group, I could see your concern.

It sounds like she made the point in an unhelpful manner.  But as long as the group was in a position to discuss it (agree or disagree with her opinion), I don't see the harm.  We all know some people believe there will be or there will never be a cure, but that shouldn't impact our own opinion/beliefs.

Cliff

P.S.-  I don't think people were being sexist by using he instead of she or they.

cliff - i agree that discussing the possibility of a cure - and most things hiv related, are proper to discuss in a hiv support group. the way the topic was presented was not appropriate for our group. you are also right when you say the serostatus or employment status of the person are not important. they are not, but it shows the level of connection with a group. a close connection to the group usually helps with the discussion of sensitive topics - i was trying to highlight this point by mentioning this.

i agree with most of what you've put forth in your last statement. someone cannot gauge where we are all at with our disease. but, with that said, maybe a better approach should have been used. as mentioned earlier, instead of presenting no cure as a statement of fact, it could have been introduced as an opinion topic. this way members could be engaged in conversation and we could have discussed treatment/eradication failures, is hope important, alternative strategies, etc... my concern is that it was an inappropriate topic, it was poorly presented, and the moderator was not prepared to grapple with the complexity of the issue. it was not informative, uplifting, stimulating, whatever. no one responded to the comments and most people looked away or stared at the ground. my concern is well founded.

for your last point, what people in positions of authority say often affects the perception of others. a lot of people in the group digested the information in ways that were not beneficial. even if it is necessary for us to know this, there is a better way to deliver this message. our regular moderator has never side stepped the issue and would have made it an open conversation, discussed why a cure may be difficult, asked for our feelings on the matter and what we could do to alter our views or help others.

midapr07 - seroconversion
sept07 - tested poz
oct07 cd4 1013; vl 13,900; cd4% 41
feb08 cd4  694;  vl 16,160; cd4% 50.1
may08 cd4 546; vl 91,480; cd4% 32
aug08 cd4 576; vl 48,190; cd4% 40.7
dec08 cd4 559; vl 63,020; cd4% 29.4
feb09 cd4 464; vl 11,000; cd4% 26
may09 cd4 544; vl 29,710; cd4% 27.2
oct09 cd4 ...; vl 23,350; cd4% 31.6
mar10 cd4 408; vl 59,050; cd4% 31.4
aug10 cd4 328; vl 80,000; cd4% 19.3 STARTED ATRIPLA
oct10 cd4 423; vl 410 ;); cd4% 30.2
jun11 cd4 439; vl <20 ;); cd4% 33.8 <-Undetectable!
mar12 cd4 695; vl ud; cd4% 38.6
jan13 cd4 738; vl ud; cd4% 36.8
aug13 cd4 930; vl ud; cd4% 44.3
jan14 cd4 813; vl ud; cd4% 42.8
may14 cd4 783; vl *; cd4%43.5

Offline Winiroo

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Re: Temporary Group Moderator Faux Paus
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2008, 12:37:45 PM »
On a positive note you have lots of material for the next group discussion. I think it would be healthy for you to vent your frustration at what was said and how it made you feel.

Offline bear60

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Re: Temporary Group Moderator Faux Paus
« Reply #30 on: July 17, 2008, 01:50:41 PM »
"On a positive note you have lots of material for the next group discussion. I think it would be healthy for you to vent your frustration at what was said and how it made you feel."quote Winnie
.......................
I agree. Not taking this up with your group seems to miss a great educational moment.

Joel
Poz Bear Type in Philadelphia

Offline Iggy

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Re: Temporary Group Moderator Faux Paus
« Reply #31 on: July 17, 2008, 01:51:49 PM »
On a positive note you have lots of material for the next group discussion. I think it would be healthy for you to vent your frustration at what was said and how it made you feel.

I second third that.  (Joel just beat me to the punch on that one)

Offline John2038

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Re: Temporary Group Moderator Faux Paus
« Reply #32 on: July 17, 2008, 02:08:13 PM »
It's not because someone think something that this something is true.
If some believe that no cure will be find in a foreseeable future, it is their opinion, and you don't need to agree.

If we have been able to find drugs that slow down significantly the eventual disease progression to AIDS, it means that the virus have been significantly hit.

So we are going into the right direction. As such, there are no reasons why we won't find at least better and better drugs.
In the worst case, we will still be infected but will be able to expect a normal lifespan very soon, and in the best case, we will eradicate this virus.

Just a major discovery can change everything. Now this world will always have pessimistic and optimistic people.
I personally believe in science.

Offline Oceanbeach

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Re: Temporary Group Moderator Faux Paus
« Reply #33 on: July 18, 2008, 12:54:37 AM »
hello,

so, last night at our hiv group we had a sub. our fearless leader was on vacation in ps sipping margaritas and staring at mighty hot ass. this covering moderator, however fabulous, made a comment, repeated it 3 times, substantiated it with personal knowledge, and left me feeling not so warm and fuzzy.
 

I once went to a Living With HIV Support Group here in California.  It was a small rural clinic w/ 50-60 HIV patients.  Our group was facilitated by a licensed Psychologist who preferred alcohol/drug abuse treatment professionally and admitted from the beginning, the 4 gay men in the group were the only gay men he knew and he knew nothing about HIV.  We ran out own group.

Three of the 4 members of this group (myself included) had just moved to the area, did not know anyone so it was a social function for us.

One day, a couple years later... I was having a meeting with the FNP in one of the exam rooms, he had to step out and I read my medical file while our Nurse was out.

Medicare had been charged for my attendance in the "Living With HIV" Support Group for the two years based on me being clinically depressed.  I had a recent personality profile done by a local radio station (possible employer) which showed leadership abilities and top management material.  The Psychologist was terminated and apparently the Medicare accounts of the other members of the group were also, "clinically depressed".

Currently, with me... My doctor has been clear on the topic that I will live to see old age and expects me to die in my 80's because of a heart attack, not from AIDS.  I have been put on blood pressure and cholesterol meds and responding very well.  Still having problems with PN and took a dump today without being properly prepared but I was at home, alone and I wish for a life without side effects  ;D  Have the best day
Michael

 


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