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Poll

Is it okay in some occupations to discriminate against people with hiv.

no
26 (81.3%)
yes
4 (12.5%)
only in medical areas
2 (6.3%)

Total Members Voted: 32

Author Topic: Discrimination in the job application process  (Read 3787 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ryeguy

  • Member
  • Posts: 173
Discrimination in the job application process
« on: July 26, 2006, 05:28:22 PM »
Hi all,

To make along story short, I found out on the telephone in 2001 that I was hiv positive. I applied for a position as flight attendant with Lufthansa and was offered a contract. (This was right before the 11 Sept. 2001) One of the criteria of the contract was an 'Aids Test' with a negative result. As I was informed that I could not meet this criteria I was also told that my trainings contract was no longer available.

Of course as much of you have experienced yourself after this kind of a notification the job was no longer so important to me. I was more concerned with my health and 'getting better.' I found a good doc had to start meds and continued to work in the hotel where I had been working. My numbers got better and the fear began to cease.

It has been about 5 years and I just did something crazy. Yes, I did an online application for a position as flight attendant again. Not to be to overly arrogant but I am over qualified for this position. I have worked in numerous 4-5 star hotels in all the important service dept.'s but being a flight attendant has been an unaccomplished dream of mine. I am fairly certain they will show interrest in me again and I am hoping that they did not save my hiv status in there personnel archive. I am also not sure how the discrimination laws are in Germany about hiv at the moment but I am hoping that there has been some change. If I am offered a contract again and they find out I have hiv and take the contract back I intend on suing them! Five years ago I was too shocked to do anything, but now if they discriminate again against me ( against all people with hiv) I intend to kick them in the balls even if I have to go to the media and disclose my hiv status to the world. My current boss knows about my hiv status and I know my job is safe.

I'd be happy to get any legal advice here, please remember this is not the U.S. but Germany. What does the law say about this in the U.S.? Is this type of discrimination legal there?

Has anyone else around the world encountered this type of discrimination?

Thanks for your time,

Rion Turner

Offline jupiter

  • Member
  • Posts: 89
Re: Discrimination in the job application process
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2006, 05:44:15 PM »
thats terrible. They MAYonly keep them for a certain period of time, they must get alot of staff thru there. but keep us informed id like to hear how you go.
Its discrimination at its worst.

Offline blondbeauty

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  • Posts: 1,785
Re: Discrimination in the job application process
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2006, 07:27:32 PM »
Hi Rion!
I am a flight attendant in Iberia Airlines of Spain. I think the law must be similar in all the european union. I tested positive last October but I contracted HIV in 2002 from my partner who is also al flight attendant in the same airline. Since I contracted HIV I had two blood tests done by the airline. In fact in my last test in January 2005 I asked the medical department of Iberia to perform an HIV test. They said NO because its illegal. My partn er and I are still working for IB. There is many other people that have entered the airline being HIV positive. Not only flight attendants. There is also a very well known case of a copilot who stopped flying for several (because of HIV) years and is working full time again.
Talking to the lawyer of my syndicate I found out that many other colleagues were trying to give up flying because of HIV and the company wont give them the disability (as air crew and give the a position as ground staff)  because they are well enough to keep on working.
It sounds weird for me that Lufthansa can test you for HIV. HIV test is something private and you cant be tested unless you give permission. In my case I was not tested by Iberia even when I asked the to do it and told them I would give them a written authorisation.
The only member in these forums approved by WINBA: World International Nail and Beauty Association.
Epstein Barr +; CMV +; Toxoplasmosis +; HIV-1 +.
Counts when starting treatment:
V.L.:80.200 copies. CD4: 25%=503
Started Sustiva-Truvada 14/August/2006
Last V.L.count (Oct 2013): Undetectable
Last CD4 count (OCT 2013): 52%= 933

Offline ryeguy

  • Member
  • Posts: 173
Re: Discrimination in the job application process
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2006, 08:43:52 PM »
blond beauty,

First off nice picture and thankyou for your response.

 The fact is after the interview process with Lufthansa one must do a 'Flugtaublichkeits Untersuchung' or flight medical check-up. In order to complete this process which one must do in order to be offered a contract one is forced to sign a paper that allows Lufthansa to test for hiv. To simple it up if you do not sign the paper which allows them to test, you do not get a green light for the medical check-up. Of course without the medical check-up you do not get the contract.

I think this might also be illegal in Germany as in the EU most laws are pretty similar. It is possible that no one has challenged Lufthansa on this yet. I will! 5 years ago my world fell apart first, I've got it all back together now and am willing to fight for the right to work in a capacity which Lufthansa has already deemed me(with the exception of hiv) qualified for.

Offline whizzer

  • Member
  • Posts: 363
Re: Discrimination in the job application process
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2006, 09:05:47 PM »
Why would it be OK to discriminate against HIV in the medical workplace?  As opposed, say, to the food service workplace, child care, schoolteachers, airline pilots, animal trainers, airline pilots, factory workers, or practically any workplace one can mention?

Offline blondbeauty

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,785
Re: Discrimination in the job application process
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2006, 09:10:34 PM »
Do it Rion! If I can help you in any way, tell me. If we have to appear together on any german TV program, let me know with enough time. I always wanted to be famous!
I read some news about things happening in Air Berlin. Flight attendants being fired for being sick "too many times" and other kinds of pressure. Maybe Airlines are acting beyond legal limits.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2006, 09:12:57 PM by blondbeauty »
The only member in these forums approved by WINBA: World International Nail and Beauty Association.
Epstein Barr +; CMV +; Toxoplasmosis +; HIV-1 +.
Counts when starting treatment:
V.L.:80.200 copies. CD4: 25%=503
Started Sustiva-Truvada 14/August/2006
Last V.L.count (Oct 2013): Undetectable
Last CD4 count (OCT 2013): 52%= 933

Offline ryeguy

  • Member
  • Posts: 173
Re: Discrimination in the job application process
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2006, 09:36:39 PM »
Whizzer,

Some people believe that for example a Surgeon who is operating on a patient may cut himself and then in the operating process accidentally infect a patient. I think this is highly unlikely but this has actually been a popular theme for quit some time.

Blondbeauty,

I think you may just be able to help me, but I am not sure yet how. I also have a friend who is flying for AirBerlin I have not talked to him for quit some time but he also mentioned that things were not so easy with AirBerlin. We may just make a good team:-)

Offline whizzer

  • Member
  • Posts: 363
Re: Discrimination in the job application process
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2006, 10:10:51 PM »
Ryeguy,

Yes, and there are some people who think that they can catch your HIV from sitting next to you on a bus, but that doesn't make it so.  And there are some people who don't think it's safe for flight attendants to be HIV positive (what if there's an accident and you bleed on people), but that doesn't make them right.

The fact is, there has only ever been one instance (five cases, if memory serves) of health care worker to patent transmission of HIV, the Acer cohort in Florida in the early 90s, and doubt still remains as to whether that was actually doctor to patient or patient to patient transmission.  No others.  None.  Zero.  Zilch.

While I can make a strong argument for surgeons with HIV to avoid blind procedures and limit the scope of their practices, that possibility in no way excuses discrimination against health care workers in general.

By far the greatest risk is on the part of the health care worker.  If society is permitted to discriminate against them, then should they not be permitted to discriminate against us, since we pose a far greater risk?  It is a two-way street, after all.  I personally am not willing to give up my access to health care for some vague illusion of an increase in safety.


Offline sdcabincrew74

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  • Posts: 540
    • My Manhunt account
Re: Discrimination in the job application process
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2006, 11:48:46 PM »
I work for a major US international carrier as a Flight Attendant.  I was honest on my medical exam and told them the drugs I take.  Not a word was ever said, I think it is illegal. 
The difference between an overnight and a layover is luck!

Offline Eldon

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,664
Re: Discrimination in the job application process
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2006, 12:08:19 AM »
Hello Ryeguy it is Eldon. I read what you have been going through and I do agree that Lufthansa should NOT discriminate against you for working as a flight attendant with their airlines. Keep us posted on your progrees and the outcome. Best Wishes!

Offline Oceanbeach

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,565
Re: Discrimination in the job application process
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2006, 12:26:25 AM »
Hi Rion,

The Americans With Disabilities Act makes it illegal for an employer to discriminate in hiring a person with any disability.  An HIV test can not be performed but a blood test can.  That blood test will show an abnormal count of white blood cells an American can say, "My doctor is aware  of that and we are working on it."  In most cases, regardless of the ADA, a potential employer can find another reason not to hire any person who may or may not have a disability.

In my own personal experience, I have an AIDS diagnosis since 1996 and have been applying for jobs (in my field) since 1998.  Last year, the closest I ever got to hire was a letter from the County of Sonoma for a Risk Manager I position.  This position paid extremely well, with full benefits and my letter said I was the most qualified applicant .

I went to my hiring interview and sailed through each and every question, offering suggestions on how improvements could be made.  The committee asked me to be sure to sign the release of background information.  The only people who sign those release forms are the one who is hired.  I signed the paperwork then the Director of that department invited me on a tour of the facility.  I had Periferal Pneuropathy, every step was in screaming agony.  I could not hide the pain.  A more qualified applicant was found, thank me for my interest in employment with the County of Sonoma, good luck with my future employment endeavors, and I was welcome to keep my application on file for 1 year. 

If any number of issues sets off a red flag, the employer will find another applicant.  There was no discrimination, no laws are broken.  Have the best day
Michael

www.Commission-on-AIDS.org

Offline ryeguy

  • Member
  • Posts: 173
Re: Discrimination in the job application process
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2006, 03:43:55 AM »
:-)

I just read an e-mail Lufthansa has sent me. They will be sending me a date for a telephone interview to test my English. As I am American I guess I am not too worried about this. Either they have no archive on me, or they have not noticed my five year old application with them. COOL!! Today I will contact a lawyer and a couple of Pro Hiv/Aids organisations.

Offline blondbeauty

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,785
Re: Discrimination in the job application process
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2006, 02:49:47 PM »
Rion, please dont do this in your interview for Lufthansa... ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSKpSWrbeyg&mode=related&search=
The only member in these forums approved by WINBA: World International Nail and Beauty Association.
Epstein Barr +; CMV +; Toxoplasmosis +; HIV-1 +.
Counts when starting treatment:
V.L.:80.200 copies. CD4: 25%=503
Started Sustiva-Truvada 14/August/2006
Last V.L.count (Oct 2013): Undetectable
Last CD4 count (OCT 2013): 52%= 933

Offline ryeguy

  • Member
  • Posts: 173
Re: Discrimination in the job application process
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2006, 04:25:56 PM »
Thant was so funny!! Thanxs I got a good laugh there:-))

Offline pozniceguy

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  • Posts: 1,169
  • Niceguy Dallas
Re: Discrimination in the job application process
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2006, 05:11:00 PM »
Ryeguy.. I am interested in the "legality " of using HIV status as a hiring criteria....I have personal experience with other" illegal" issues  ..age, sex ..weight..ethnicity.. that I have seen skirted by using other criteria to disqualify someone..the most common excuse is " a person who more closely fits our requirements" has been chosen ,   in this state ( Texas) there are a series of "right to work" laws which in essence lets an employer hire or fire at will with little or no explanation....the federal rules still apply but proof remains the responsibility of the one who has been discriminated against.....My very personal example was about age....totally unsaid... but always a younger person hired and in one case I was "surplussed" and a younger person given the job.In one case I was told by the hiring manager that he felt more comfortable with the other candidate ( both of them were younger than I  was )   As manager I saw many other managers use various excuses to skirt the issues.

So don't be surprised if HIV discrimination is "illegal" that there is not some other reason used as the criteria

This will be a very interesting situation for many of us to follow..Good Luck  you certainly have my support in pressing this issue as far as you can....

Nick
remember the good times...honor the past but don't live there
Le stelle la notte sono grandie luminose, nel cuore profondo del Texas

Offline MitchMiller

  • Member
  • Posts: 453
Re: Discrimination in the job application process
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2006, 10:17:26 PM »
You may be interested in reading this.  I'm not sure if AA settled out of court, but I would guess that's usually what they do if they can save $$$.
http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:rLE67XgM6EYJ:www.securitymanagement.com/library/leonel_americanairline0605.pdf+american+airlines+flight+attendant+hiv&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=2

Offline Ann

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  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Discrimination in the job application process
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2006, 05:45:57 AM »
Hi Rye,

I really rather doubt that they would keep applications five years back. Most places only keep old applications for one or two years at most - otherwise they'd need a warehouse just to keep them in. LOL

Good luck with the application - it's so good to see someone following their dreams. Keep us posted!

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline ryeguy

  • Member
  • Posts: 173
Re: Discrimination in the job application process
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2006, 10:22:33 AM »
Thankyou mitch!! :-) 

Offline blondbeauty

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,785
Re: Discrimination in the job application process
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2006, 07:43:30 PM »
What to do in your first day in Lufthansa!  ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeXrMRf25U8&NR


The only member in these forums approved by WINBA: World International Nail and Beauty Association.
Epstein Barr +; CMV +; Toxoplasmosis +; HIV-1 +.
Counts when starting treatment:
V.L.:80.200 copies. CD4: 25%=503
Started Sustiva-Truvada 14/August/2006
Last V.L.count (Oct 2013): Undetectable
Last CD4 count (OCT 2013): 52%= 933

Offline doco

  • Member
  • Posts: 6
Re: Discrimination in the job application process
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2006, 07:55:26 PM »
Ryeguy,

Best of luck to you.  I know that you past experience has to be frustrating.  Fortunately, I have boss who is also gay and sympathetic to my status.  He even keeps me up-to-date on any possible changes to my health insurance.  I realize every day how lucky I am, but I know that others like you may be experiencing discrimination in the workplace.  I know there is nothing I can physically do, so I will send you my moral support.  Keep us posted.

Cheers!

Offline ryeguy

  • Member
  • Posts: 173
Re: Discrimination in the job application process
« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2006, 03:49:11 AM »
Blondbeauty......... That was so funny!!!  Just slap my back and call me Nancy  :-))   LOL 8) ;D :-*

 


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