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Author Topic: Ex: ''Listen, I might have HIV, i want you to come with me while i get tested''  (Read 6399 times)

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Offline lifer

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Okay this is the moment that i hoped would never come but it has now and i dont know how to deal i need advice please!!

So i met up with my ex bf last night (im not sure whether i contracted the virus from him or not, a possible yes but i had many others in that same period and also the docs said my infection at the time when i got tested poz was not a recent one so it can be him but also not) and he told me that he slept with a person a while ago and he heard from another person  a few days ago that that person is poz so he wants to get tested asap. He did it safe however he said so the chance was small.


So he wants me to go with him to get tested for support. I cant even do that right? I mean i have been to the same place where i tested poz and what if the docs recognize me or we get the same doc who will recognize me and go'' hey how r u, r u on meds yet''


I dont know its all so confusing to me i hope he is not poz cuz if he is then i will start eating myself up again for the thought that he might have infected me and has had the disease longer than me. I thought to finally have shut this chapter in my life but apparently its all back again.

I mean i dont ever want him to find out that i have the virus. Hes probably gonna draw a conclusion that i infected him and gonna do something crazy. Im gonna make up an excuse and tell him i cant go with him cause i have to work but that he can call me for support if he wishes, right? I mean i dont wanna come off not caring hes gonna start to suspect something.

It might come off immature to many of you but im still young and my condition still remains as a secret to almost everyone. And since the gaycommunity is not too big, the news about me and him will spread like crazy..And if he is poz then i dont know what to do, say if he decides to be open about it means people are gonna think i am too, well i am but not everyone has to  know.. , since they will always see us together..

Anyway i hope someone can give me some word of advice...im really struggling with this now..


Offline thunter34

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OK...I'm totally not getting why you can't be upfront with this person and why it has to be all "he must never find out" and all that.  Can you explain a bit?  I mean, if he can come to YOU and say "I may have HIV and you need to get tested", why is it so beyond reason for it to happen the other way round?  Or is it that you are kind of afraid to get busted on having had HIV for awhile and not notfying HIM prior to this all coming up now?  I'm not trying to be harsh with you - I just don't get it.  It sounds like he's taking a responsible kind of approach about it from his end, but he's "gonna do something crazy" if it's the other way around?  Can you clarify?  This all just really seems to be so much more about you being in a knot about people figuring out about you.  You still have all this shame and stigma stuff hanging on.  I mean, it starts out with a real health situation involving your ex, but by the end of your post it's all about "What if he IS poz and decides to be OPEN about it?  Everyone will think I am!"  It's as though not only do you wanna stay hidden forever, you want him too as well lest it "look bad on you".

In any case, this is a prime example of how the truth always has a way of making itself known sooner or later.

To quote the old song:  What's done in the dark will come to the light.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2008, 03:06:47 PM by thunter34 »
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline redhotmuslbear

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Lifer,
Seriously, no one at the clinic is going to out you, as those folks get training about confidentiality and maintaining an objective distance with clients.

Seriously, too, you need to stop second-guessing the who may have infected whom, in the even that your ex finds he's HIV+.  Regardless of whatever may have passed between you, this could be an incredible moment, and each of you would share responsibility if one infected the other--and the two of you would need to reach that understanding and place of forgiveness and self-absolution together.  As for the community being so damned small, then this would be a means of you and your ex supporting one another whether he's poz or neg.

Best,
David
"The real problem is not whether machines think but whether men do." - BF Skinner
12-31-09   222wks VL  2430 CD4 690 (37%)
09-30-09   208wks VL  2050  CD4 925 (42%)
06-25-08   143wks VL  1359  CD4 668 (32%)  CD8 885
02-11-08   123wks off meds:  VL 1364 CD4 892(40%/0.99 ratio)
10-19-07   112wks off meds:   VL 292  CD4 857(37%/0.85 ratio)

One copy of delta-32 for f*****d up CCR5 receptors, and an HLA B44+ allele for "CD8-mediated immunity"... beteer than winning Powerball, almost!

Offline thunter34

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Your earlier posts say you are 19 and tested negative as of December 2006.  But your doctors said your infection diagnosis in June of last year was "not a recent infection"?  Can you fill in the missing gaps, please?  Not totally getting it. 
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline lifer

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OK...I'm totally not getting why you can't be upfront with this person and why it has to be all "he must never find out" and all that.  Can you explain a bit?  I mean, if he can come to YOU and say "I may have HIV and you need to get tested", why is it so beyond reason for it to happen the other way round?  Or is it that you are kind of afraid to get busted on having had HIV for awhile and not notfying HIM prior to this all coming up now?  I'm not trying to be harsh with you - I just don't get it.  It sounds like he's taking a responsible kind of approach about it from his end, but he's "gonna do something crazy" if it's the other way around?  Can you clarify?  This all just really seems to be so much more about you being in a knot about people figuring out about you.  You still have all this shame and stigma stuff hanging on.  I mean, it starts out with a real health situation involving your ex, but by the end of your post it's all about "What if he IS poz and decides to be OPEN about it?  Everyone will think I am!"  It's as though not only do you wanna stay hidden forever, you want him too as well lest it "look bad on you".


I never said I wasnt in a knot, I have accepted my condition and am in peace with mysef but i still find it too early to tell everyone in my area , it takes time to come out and be brave about it.

My worry is not that im going to be seen with him, my worry is that if for whatever reason he will find out that i am positive and have been already, he will accuse me of infecting him and keeping it from him for so many months. That, im trying to avoid, as im not the one who infected him and i dont wanna lose my time on speculating who did infect me or him or whatever.

Also, hes not the kinda person i would want to build an ''hiv relationship'' with. We are on speaking terms, and i will support him of course if he ends up being poz, but i wont come forward with my own secret. Because of instant accusations, and the fact that everyone (hes become a bit of a ''scene queen'') will know about me the next day.

I dont feel anger towards him for ''possibly'' infecting me.. but if he will tell me that he is infected, i will link it back to myself and my own infection. And i dont wanna know that! Its much easier to not know who infected you so you dont have to hate that person for the rest of your life.

Offline lifer

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Your earlier posts say you are 19 and tested negative as of December 2006.  But your doctors said your infection diagnosis in June of last year was "not a recent infection"?  Can you fill in the missing gaps, please?  Not totally getting it.


I was 19 when i tested poz. In december 2006, i was 18 i tested neg. In april 2007 i got a relationship with my ex until august. In august 2007, i tested poz. So the dignosis in august, was not a recent infection accoding to the docs. they said they look at the last three months and if your system is already done making antibodies it means its an infection of longer than 3 months. Which means i probably contracted it from january til april 2007. Or maybe in may when i first had sex with my bf. The condom was torn once, if he was poz back then already, thats the night when i got infected then. Another possibility is that i contacted it during the months from dec-april..(i had sex with quite a few men, always safe except for kissing sucking etc)...

So thats the history..maybe you understand my doubts a little more now..

Offline madbrain

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Its much easier to not know who infected you so you dont have to hate that person for the rest of your life.

Speak for yourself. I have no idea who I got HIV from, and I would rather know than be in the dark the rest of my life, as I will be.

Offline lifer

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Speak for yourself. I have no idea who I got HIV from, and I would rather know than be in the dark the rest of my life, as I will be.


What are you going to do if you do know? Kill that person? Curse that person everytime you get sick and your meds will stop to work? I wouldnt find it comforting to know who infected me, but thats me.

Offline thunter34

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I dont feel anger towards him for ''possibly'' infecting me.. but if he will tell me that he is infected, i will link it back to myself and my own infection. And i dont wanna know that! Its much easier to not know who infected you so you dont have to hate that person for the rest of your life.

So you have to "hate that person for the rest of your life"?  Really now?

Yeah...I see your last post here about the "not a recent infection".  We have different takes on the word "recent" is all.  And yes, I understand your timeline a little better now, but I also remember there was some escort hustler person involved who "told you he was safe" or whatever.  I think I need to bail from this thread and let others reply from here out, hon.  It all still boils to you needing to come to grips with your reality, in my opinion.  I really don't know what else I can contribute to this since we're not in the same mindset about dealing with the infection.  

Know / not know...it's all bullshit, folks.  Your infection is YOUR infection.  You have to own it - or it will own you.

Good luck & hope others can help you more.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Iggy

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Lifer,

I'm basing this off of your original post, but going by that, I think you need to have a talk with your ex BEFORE accompanying him to the appointment.

Let him know what your worries are now instead of adding more pressure to the moment that he gets his results.

If you are uncomfortable doing that then you might want to decline accompanying him to the appointment.

Offline lifer

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Yeah...I see your last post here about the "not a recent infection".  We have different takes on the word "recent" is all.  And yes, I understand your timeline a little better now, but I also remember there was some escort hustler person involved who "told you he was safe" or whatever.  I think I need to bail from this thread and let others reply from here out, hon.  It all still boils to you needing to come to grips with your reality, in my opinion.  I really don't know what else I can contribute to this since we're not in the same mindset about dealing with the infection. 

The escort person was him in fact, he was in escort before he met me. So thats why when the condom broke he assured me that it was fine as he was tested and blablabla. Maybe he said so i would never suspect him of infecting me if it ever came down to that, which it did.

Anyway, im with you Iggy, im going to decline to accompany him and maybe ask to meet up in the evening. It would be morally wrong to see him devastated about the bad news while the ''same'' person would be sitting next to him acting as if its all good.

Offline madbrain

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What are you going to do if you do know? Kill that person? Curse that person everytime you get sick and your meds will stop to work? I wouldnt find it comforting to know who infected me, but thats me.

No, of course not, I would never kill anyone. When an infection happens, there are at least two people responsible. And I'm not on meds yet. But I would still rather know who it was. Did the other person know they carried the virus or not ? Were they recently infected and just unaware ? Knowing that would make a difference to me.

Even more than knowing who the person was, I really wonder what sexual act it was that led to my infection also. I would like to know where I went wrong, not so much the other person. Even though it's too late for me to learn from my mistakes, I would like to think others could if that could be figured out. The only unprotected sex I had with strangers was oral. But that's generally considered low-risk. Most people in this forum say infection through oral sex has never been proven. I never even swallowed anyone's cum.
But like you, I had sex with a lot of people over a short period of time.  I did have a lot of anal sex, but not a broken condom, and I was top 99% of the time. I thought I was very careful. I only had bb sex with 2 guys in the last 6 years, including the 4 years preceding my infection - my ex-bf who is still neg, and my current bf who was neg at the time and that I trust didn't see anyone else. So was it oral sex ? Was it a bad condom ? To me, my infection remains largely a mystery. My best 2 theories are oral sex first and bad condom second.

Offline Dachshund

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I only had bb sex with 2 guys in the last 6 years, including the 4 years preceding my infection

Only takes one time.

Anyhow back to your topic. You will never feel free until you're honest with those you truly care about.

Offline Peter Staley

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Lifer -- you asked for advice here, so you deserve only honesty from those who reply.  My apologies up front if this sounds harsh.

It sounds to me like you are your own worst enemy right now.  You sound like someone who thinks being known as HIV+ is a life-ender -- the worst thing in the world.  I fully disclosed my status to everyone in my life in 1988, and I have still lived a life filled with good friends and love.

Even before that, after I found out I was HIV+ in late 1985, I disclosed to those I had previously had sex with.  I risked a good career on Wall Street disclosing to a woman at work I had had safe-sex with.

Why?  Because it was the right thing to do.  Sure, their risk was minimal, but they had a right to know.  There were selfish reasons too.  I didn't want to die with that kind of guilt hanging over me -- I knew not disclosing would slowly eat me up inside, that I would die hating myself, rather than die loving myself.

This was 1985, when folks were burning down the houses of young kids with HIV.  Disclosure had repercussions, and still does.  It was crazy hard then, and still very hard today.  But it will make you stronger. 

Yes, your ex my freak on you.  Then you deal with that.  I think you'll find that easier than dealing with an increasing level of self-loathing that you are already exhibiting.

Again, my apologies for being so harsh, but I really think your current attitudes are going to do you more harm than HIV ever will.

Peter Staley
Founder
AIDSmeds.com

Offline thunter34

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Peter, thanks for saying what I was trying to say much better than I managed.  Now as for this...

Even before that, after I found out I was HIV+ in late 1985, I disclosed to those I had previously had sex with.  I risked a good career on Wall Street disclosing to a woman at work I had had safe-sex with.


I think we've found the subject matter for your next blog. 
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline madbrain

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I only had bb sex with 2 guys in the last 6 years, including the 4 years preceding my infection

Only takes one time.

I am well aware of that. But they have to be infected first to be able to infect me. I don't believe these 2 were. At least for the later, he was definitely neg based on tests when we met. And the ex said I was his only sex partner in his whole life ...

Quote
Anyhow back to your topic. You will never feel free until you're honest with those you truly care about.

Right. That is certainly true. lifer's feelings about his ex certainly seem to be mixed. Personally, I choose to be open about it. It isn't always easy. Prejudice is still there. Saturday I went to a computer store. Yesterday I went in a chat room of a popular gay web site, where my profile lists my HIV status. Somebody told me that he saw me at the store with my bf and that "we don't look poz". As if there was a poz look ...

Offline thunter34

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Madbrain:  "I believe...he said...I trust..."

I can't help but think that might be where you're steering wrong, dear.  Just sayin'.

And to join the others:  Lifer, honey...I am glad others chimed in with similar sentiments to mine.  I swear, I swear...life is SO much better when you just face it head on. 
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline dgr20002

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My first thought is that unless it is a rapid test you really won't be supportive in accompanying him for the test. The support will come if he tests poz and needs to cry and needs a hug. And furthermore by him telling you he is going and is asking you to come along that's probably his way of signaling you that you too may have an HIV issue since he does not know you are poz.

You are thinking this through too much with all the what ifs and what not. Just decline to go for the test but go with him for the results if he asks you. Whatever his result you can be supportive without actually disclosing to him if you don't want too. See how it plays out and be there for him because he still thinks enough of you to tell you what he is going through.  Then decide what you want to tell him or not tell him.

David

Offline raveboijosh

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dude yeah... I agree with what everyone else is sayin... If you love the guy you should be honest with him... I know its very hard and you may feel doomed or whatever.. but all in all I think he would thank u for being honest. I mean for me personally... I don't ever wanna be responsible for giving this shit to anyone else... I mean I think I have been positive for like 5 years or so... (since I moved back here from Philly) and I have no idea who i may have infected from certain one night encounters....

But the thing is.. I told my last serious ex bf that i had unprotected sex with after i tested positive.... and he was upset and scared at first but luckily he was negative... and now we r kind of back together... :)


Online GSOgymrat

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I suggest supporting your friend but holding off on disclosing until his test results come back unless he asks your status directly. You should have told him earlier so he could have been tested but since he is doing it anyway you don't have to. I suggest you wait because if you tell him you are positive before he gets the results it will escalate his anxiety. If he tests negative and it has been long enough since the two of you had sex you can decide when and if you want to disclose. If he tests positive you need to disclose and deal with the consequences.

The reason I think you should go this route is because you don't seem ready to deal with the ramifications of everyone knowing you are HIV+.

Offline lifer

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I dont feel that I would have to disclose anything even if he does test positive. We had a brief something for three months. A whole year has passed after that, and I know him and he has had many many encounters after me. Thats what he said himself, that after us, he went all wild and crazy in the scene including drugs. So i dont know why many of you are suspecting im the one who infected him and should feel responsible for it now by coming clean. I dont ''love'' the guy but i will support him if he needs me to. Hes getting a rapid test today i told him i cant join him but he should call me asap after the results. I think im handling this all correctly.




Offline Dachshund

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I dont feel that I would have to disclose anything even if he does test positive. We had a brief something for three months. A whole year has passed after that, and I know him and he has had many many encounters after me. Thats what he said himself, that after us, he went all wild and crazy in the scene including drugs. So i dont know why many of you are suspecting im the one who infected him and should feel responsible for it now by coming clean. I dont ''love'' the guy but i will support him if he needs me to. Hes getting a rapid test today i told him i cant join him but he should call me asap after the results. I think im handling this all correctly.





Well there you go.

Offline thunter34

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I dont feel that I would have to disclose anything even if he does test positive. We had a brief something for three months. A whole year has passed after that, and I know him and he has had many many encounters after me. Thats what he said himself, that after us, he went all wild and crazy in the scene including drugs. So i dont know why many of you are suspecting im the one who infected him and should feel responsible for it now by coming clean.

Look:  Do what you wanna do.  We're not here to go round and around with you.  No one is necessarily "suspecting you of infecting him" and all that.  He very well may have gone "all wild and crazy in the scene including drugs".  Fact remains that you know YOU tested positive nearly a YEAR AGO and didn't notify him as a previous sexual partner.  Which (if you DID happen to infect him) may have let a potential health hazard go unchecked for that length of time and may have also led to him passing the infection still further to others during the "crazy including drugs" time.  But never mind.  It's way clear that there is so much about this that you just are not ready to face and accept. 
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline lifer

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I dont understand why you have to go all harsh on me. Just because i dont tell my bedpartners im hiv positive but still do it safe the entire time does not make me an evil person. If so, then 80% of all the people here on board are like me.

Anyway, an update: HE  CALLED TO TELL ME HE TESTED NEGATIVE TODAY. QUITE A RELIEF FOR ME AS WELL AS FOR HIM.  (unless he did test positive but lied about it, but i dont think so)


Offline thunter34

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I dont understand why you have to go all harsh on me. Just because i dont tell my bedpartners im hiv positive but still do it safe the entire time does not make me an evil person. If so, then 80% of all the people here on board are like me.

Anyway, an update: HE  CALLED TO TELL ME HE TESTED NEGATIVE TODAY. QUITE A RELIEF FOR ME AS WELL AS FOR HIM.  (unless he did test positive but lied about it, but i dont think so)



i'm not going all harsh on you.  life is harsh.  truth is harsh.  i never said you were evil, but you did go without informing your former partners that you had tested positive.  but in any case, congratulations.  it seems you problem is solved without a fuss. 
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline lifer

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dont wanna keep dwelling on this topic but in a way it leaves me even more saddened that knowing his lifestyle, he still tested negative and i had to be punished for my actions back then. but hey thats life, and i cant compare mine to others. and obviously i feel kinda jealous which is totally human but still im happy for him he is okay and well, and as for myself, i will find my luck in other ways.

sorry for ranting..

Offline thunter34

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HIV is not a punishment.  And who knows?  He may just be covering his tracks the same way you are.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Miss Philicia

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dont wanna keep dwelling on this topic but in a way it leaves me even more saddened that knowing his lifestyle, he still tested negative and i had to be punished for my actions back then.

What's that supposed to mean?  That because he was promiscuous and used drugs he deserved more than you, a guy who hired a sex worker once but was always sober?

That's all kind of ways fucked up.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline lifer

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what are you talking about? i never said he deserved  more because he was more promiscious than me or whatever. i just wanted to state that both of us lived similar lifestyles and one got this and the other one that! stop finding a deeper meaning behind my words. of course he didnt deserve it more, noone did or does. but it goes to show how one can fuck around and get nothing and the other one can fuck around not as much as the other but still get infected. PERIOD.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Lifer,

The quickest way to make this thread go away is to stop posting in it.

I too, interpreted your words "knowing his lifestyle" as being laden with judgment and dripping with a "holier-than-thou" attitude but you've denied that and I'll take you at your word.

MtD

Offline BlueMoon

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Just because i dont tell my bedpartners im hiv positive but still do it safe the entire time does not make me an evil person. If so, then 80% of all the people here on board are like me.


That makes me a 20 percenter then.

I'm glad your friend tested negative, for his sake.  That must be a great relief to you.
...................VL.....CD4.....%
-----------------------------------------
08/10-- ......<40.....290.....42
05/10-- ......<48.....290.....46
02/10-- ......<48.....481.....44
10/09-- ......<48.....277.....46
07/09-- ......<48.....300.....38
05/09-- ........51.....449.....39
03/09-- Added Isentress
02/09-- ........65.....299.....34
11/08-- ........62.....242.....40
08/08-- ........66.....212.....29
05/08-- ......202.....217.....27
03/08-- ....5210.....187.....21
02/08-- Began Truvada/Reyataz/Norvir
12/07-- 273,000.....157.....22
11/07-- 229,000.....209.....22
10/07-- Diagnosis

It's a complex world.

Offline Peter Staley

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Just because i dont tell my bedpartners im hiv positive but still do it safe the entire time does not make me an evil person.

Agreed -- I don't think you are an "evil person."  But I do think your partners deserve to know.  So I think your stance is reflective of a level of selfishness and immaturity that is sadly all too common among many gay men these days.

That said, I'm glad you're posting here, and I appreciate your honesty.  I hope you'll keep talking about it -- keep THINKING about it -- and use us as a sounding board for the decisions you are making.

I'm curious -- when your sex partners ask you what your status is, do you lie?  Does your online profile (assuming you have one on some Internet hook-up site) say you are HIV negative?  And if yes to either of these questions, please help me understand your reasons for doing so.

Peter

Offline lifer

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I didnt want to respond in this thread anymore but i will answer your questions Peter.


What do I respond when my bedpartners ask me if im tested or something? To be honest with you, nobody ever asked me that question. Maybe they associate someone young with diseasefree but i havent had that question at all. What would I do if they would ask me that? I would tell em im not tested but always do it safe. Yes, i would be lying and i would be selfish and a cruel person. But there is a difference i think between telling em youre fine and going on and having unsafe bare sex and telling em youre not tested but making sure you have safe sex.

And since ive been tested poz i havent slept with as many guys as previously. And with the ones I have, there was no anal sex involved. Why? Because everytime i kiss the thought of danger i could bring him into crosses my mind and my sex drive basically dissapears.

I know many people in my area who are poz too and have safe sex on a daily basis with guys, not telling em about their status. Their VL is all undetectable so i dont think they are putting the guys in danger, as long as everything happens safe.

My online profile doesnt say anything about me being poz. My reasons? Well im young, and unlike guys who are older than me and list on their profiles about their status, have a carreer going for em, have a loving boyfriend, friends who support you and what not, I dont have that (not to that degree at least). I mean, before the hiv i was still struggling with my sexuality, I was not even done with my emotional battle and here comes another battle, an even bigger one.

Ive yet to ''form'' myself and my life, and no matter how much you or people encourage disclosing your status, im not going to do that for the coming years simply because i need to build a stable life before i can take these next steps. I dont think that makes me a selfish person, but if you do , go ahead.

Do i feel lonely because nobody knows of my status? Sometimes yes, but coming here and talking about my problems both physically and mentally helps me a lot. I also think about the countries where they would be happy to feel lonely as long as they would have access to the meds, and I realize that my lonely moments are absurd compared to their lives basically sentenced to death.I have a few poz friends as well and we meet up for a drink every now and then. But because theyre not newly infected, its become boring for them to talk about hiv all the time, which i can understand... So, there you go.. im curious to know what you think of my point of view now.

Offline redhotmuslbear

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My online profile doesnt say anything about me being poz. My reasons? Well im young, and unlike guys who are older than me and list on their profiles about their status, have a carreer going for em, have a loving boyfriend, friends who support you and what not, I dont have that (not to that degree at least). I mean, before the hiv i was still struggling with my sexuality, I was not even done with my emotional battle and here comes another battle, an even bigger one.  Ive yet to ''form'' myself and my life, and no matter how much you or people encourage disclosing your status, im not going to do that for the coming years simply because i need to build a stable life before i can take these next steps. I dont think that makes me a selfish person, but if you do , go ahead.
... So, there you go.. im curious to know what you think of my point of view now.

Wow!  Yoy may not be selfish, but you're sure loaded with ageist judgment against other HIVers.  Somehow, you get a free pass on disclosure because of your age and career state?  BS!  Maybe not "selfish," but certainly self-effacing.

An old book has a famous line in it:  "And the truth shall set you free."  You may being truthful less work in the long run.
"The real problem is not whether machines think but whether men do." - BF Skinner
12-31-09   222wks VL  2430 CD4 690 (37%)
09-30-09   208wks VL  2050  CD4 925 (42%)
06-25-08   143wks VL  1359  CD4 668 (32%)  CD8 885
02-11-08   123wks off meds:  VL 1364 CD4 892(40%/0.99 ratio)
10-19-07   112wks off meds:   VL 292  CD4 857(37%/0.85 ratio)

One copy of delta-32 for f*****d up CCR5 receptors, and an HLA B44+ allele for "CD8-mediated immunity"... beteer than winning Powerball, almost!

Offline dgr20002

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I would tell em im not tested but always do it safe. Yes, i would be lying and i would be selfish and a cruel person. But there is a difference i think between telling em youre fine and going on and having unsafe bare sex and telling em youre not tested but making sure you have safe sex.

Yes there is a difference in your approach but it's still not the truth and in time that will eat at you.  The question I think should be,  would this person have any type of sex with me if I told them the truth?  Believe it or not there are many guys that will say they don't want to take a chance no matter how small it might be. Since you have the knowledge you are poz I think you should leave it up to them to decide.

It's really a question of honesty and integrity. Eventually you will meet someone you like and will want to see quite a bit and each time before you go out this knowledge you are poz will be on your mind. You may wonder how or when you can tell him. What will he do? Will he be pissed because you didn't think enough of him to tell him up front. It just gets worse from there.  One day you may decide to only seek out and date poz guys for just these reasons.

I and many others have asked ourselves these same questions. The fact that you are young and not established does not really make any difference. And, I am not judging you.  I have spent a lot of time myself in anguish over having what was in my mind safe (oral) sex but all the time in the back of my mind I really was thinking about not being honest with the guy. For several days after I felt that way.

Judging from your posts and the way you try to explain yourself it is apparent to me you are thinking about what you are doing and you are gaging it against what others here think about it and that's a good start.  I personally don't agree with your logic because I have used similar logic and it just did not work for me. I guess that is more my age and life experience speaking.

I think you are more fearful of rejection than anything else and you will get some of that but you really will feel better about yourself in the end knowing you were honest with your potential partners.

David

Offline Dachshund

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Kid let me assure you, the majority if not all of the men of the forums having casual sex do exactly what you do. I know I do without a single twinge of guilt. If on the rare occasion I do have sex and make sure it's safe I feel no need to complicate the moment with disclosure. 

I knew you were in for some lectures when you first posted because it did sound a bit selfish. Some of the blowhards around here forget what it was like to be nineteen. You'll recognize them soon enough. That said, I think you did a courageous job of trying to explain yourself. Doesn't mean I agree with everything you said, but I do believe you were trying to be honest.

You're going to be fine.

Offline Peter Staley

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  • Founder & Advisory Editor, AIDSmeds.com
    • AIDSmeds.com
Thanks, Hal.  This old "blowhard" will keep blowin' till I the day I die.  I agree with Hal that many HIV+ gay men do not disclose their status, although I'm not sure the various studies that have looked at this would say it was a majority of us. 

All I know is that there are plenty of guys out there who put it right in their online profile, and have become very practiced at disclosing right up front when they meet a potential sex partner.  They don't view their HIV as a shameful secret.  I admire that.  I admire them.  And I think that's the gold standard we should all strive for.

That said, I haven't found any "evil" people in this thread.  Given the stigma of HIV, this is a very, very difficult minefield we all walk through.  Lifer's honesty has been pretty damn amazing, and I've thanked him for it before.  These are really important discussions, and we should keep having them.

But so far, I haven't seen any "blowhards" in this thread.  Well, maybe one.  (just kidding, Hal!   :-*)

Peter

Offline woodshere

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  • ain't no shame in my game
When I tested positive I handled it fairly well.  I told people over time that needed to know and changed my status on online profiles or for gay.com just omit it completely (a sign that yes I am poz but doesn't come right out and say it).  If a hook-up is to occur I disclose, for some it is fine and others not.  For me, it has been a rather easy adjustment.  Oh but wait I am in my early 40's, established in a job and have a wonderful support system of friends and family.  I cannot imagine what I would have done had this happened when I was 19 or 20.  At that time in my life I was doing a summer internship and preparing for my junior year of college with not a care in the world.  I feel certain had HIV entered my life then, I would have been totally fucked up and not much different than lifer.

That said, the reality is things are much different for you now lifer than before and it is a shame that any of us have to deal with HIV, but the fact is we do.  How you handle things now can have a tremendous impact on your life in the future.   Rather than say anything regarding casual sex (Dachshund pretty much summed it up) let me just say that the time will come when you meet someone special.  Don't mess it up by being dishonest from the start.  Of course when in a budding romance when to disclose brings up a host of issues (just see numerous other threads).  In time I dare say you will join many of us and realize that disclosing from the start, which might drive some people away, in the end is the more emotionally healthy path for all involved.

Best to you,
Woods
« Last Edit: June 19, 2008, 09:48:36 AM by woodshere »
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline Dachshund

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But so far, I haven't seen any "blowhards" in this thread.  Well, maybe one.

Takes one to know one. (Just kidding Pete) ;)

I stand by what I said. Like you no statistics to back it up, but through my own informal research :D I don't think the majority of men disclose when it comes to casual sex. Unfortunately that goes for those who don't practice safe sex. Like I said props to the kid for posting his honest feelings.

Online GSOgymrat

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  • HIV+ since 1993. INTJ
So, there you go.. im curious to know what you think of my point of view now.

If you want to play safe and not disclose that is your prerogative, although it may be illegal in some areas. To be honest everyone has to draw the line somewhere. Do you have to disclose if you kiss someone? How about mutual masturbation? How about oral sex? Anal sex with a condom? We can't draw the line just on what other people are comfortable with because there are people who would not want to shake the hand of someone with HIV, much less be kissed. So it becomes our responsibility to draw the line because we are the ones who are (hopefully) educated on this disease. Of course I'm not saying our sexual partners don't have a responsibility to be informed and protect themselves but we should know the details.

My only problem with what you said is using your age or having "a stable life" as a justification for your sexual behavior. That part doesn't make sense to me.

I too appreciate your candor.

Offline xyahka

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  • Dance together!! aha!! aha!! I like it!!
I can't say much about this... because eventhough i am up for disclosure... i have recently realised i put myself under high risk over here if i do so. It would not only be the stigma... perhaps even my personal security would be in risk.

And yes... that does not let me sleep well and makes me feel guilty sometimes. If you are facing troubles over there, imagine how hard it is in Latin America where people know ten times less about this f*ing virus.   :-[

Juan Carlos
13/03/07 1er diagnóstico /Peso: 79kg
19/04/07 CD4: 494 /CViral: ?? /Peso: 80kg
19/07/07 CD4: 659 /CViral: ?? /Peso: 79.5kg
06/03/08 CD4: 573 (después de meses muy deprimido) /CViral: ?? /Peso: 79kg
17/09/08 CD4: ?? /CViral: ?? /Peso: 84Kg
06/02/09 CD4: ?? /CViral: ?? /Peso: 85Kg /HCV: Neg /HBV: Neg.
07/03/09 CD4: ?? /CViral: ?? /Peso: 87Kg / Gym 3días/semana y Natación 2días/semana.
12/05/09 CD4: 470 /Cviral: ?? /Peso: 87Kg.
08/07/09 CD4: ? /CViral: ? /Peso: 77Kg.
09/12/09 CD4: 510 /CViral: ? /Peso: 78kg. No medicinas aún
10/01/10 CD4: ? /CViral: ? /Peso: 76Kg.
15/05/10 CD4: 320 /CViral: ? /Peso: 76Kg.
01/02/11 CD4: 291 /CViral: ? /Peso: 78kg.
05/05/11 CD4: 366 /CViral: ? /Peso: 78kg.
27/07/11 CD4: 255 /CViral: 138000 /Peso: 78kg.

Disfrutando y aceptando una nueva vida...

Offline Robert

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Like Hal (Dachshund) said, you did a great job explaining yourself.  I'm pretty sure if I was in your shoes I would be doing the same thing.  Hell, when I was 19 I didn't have a clue about anything but I knew I had to find out for myself if I was ever going to learn (I'm talking sex and everything).  I think you'll be just fine.  Just be careful.  The last thing you need is some jerk who is going to come down with the "big disease" and put all the blame on you.  

Also, like Hal said, when I read this I rolled my eyes because I could just see the grief coming your way.  I think you've handled it really well.

robert
..........

Offline rondrond

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It's hard getting old and racking up lessons in life. I brought up three boys (my nephews) and when I saw them heading down a road that would end in grief, I had to say something as I had already been down that road same road, and knew what lay at the end.

We really got into it, sometimes. They went ahead down the road, and it ended in grief just as I had warned. Though they still would travel the dangerous road, they told me that they kept hearing a voice when it started to get crazy. It was my voice they heard, and they would stop and start back pedaling.

All us 'blowhards' just don't want you to make the same mistakes we did. We care.

"I may not be exactly where I want to be, but I sure as Hell am not where I was"
Wynnona Judd

Diagnosed/HIV
1993
AZT
Norvir
1994-2001
Crixivan/Epivir/Zerit
No Meds for 7 Years

04jul07/DVT-right leg/Bi Lateral PE's     
16oct08/DVT-left leg
Sept '09  6 blood clots in left arm
Coumadin 5mgs
                                     
Atenolol/50mg/2x
Hydrochlorth 25mg/1x
Gemfibrozil/300mgs/2X
Symbicort
Proventil Inhaler
Potassium
Rhinocort


*APR 08~Viramune/Truvada
March08  CD4 330 23% VL 452.000 
*Jan09 Med change~Epzicom/Viramune

Aug09   CD4 523 23%  VL<48
Diagnosed: COPD
Dec 2013: CD4 645 45% VL 49
Med Change: Viramune/Epivir/Ziagen/Isentress

Offline bear60

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I have tears in my eyes as I sit here and read this thread because I remember when I suggested to my former partner who died in 1995 that we go and get tested..... that he said "I've already been to get tested and I'm HIV positive."  It would have been nice had he talked to me about getting tested and go to the clinic together.  Now he is gone and I have only memories left of him.
Poz Bear Type in Philadelphia

Offline woodshere

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  • ain't no shame in my game
It's hard getting old and racking up lessons in life. I brought up three boys (my nephews) and when I saw them heading down a road that would end in grief, I had to say something as I had already been down that road same road, and knew what lay at the end.

We really got into it, sometimes. They went ahead down the road, and it ended in grief just as I had warned. Though they still would travel the dangerous road, they told me that they kept hearing a voice when it started to get crazy. It was my voice they heard, and they would stop and start back pedaling.

You know I think it takes a smart person to look back and remember words of advice and change course.  It takes a far wiser person to follow advice when it is given.
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline Dachshund

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,999
It's hard getting old and racking up lessons in life. I brought up three boys (my nephews) and when I saw them heading down a road that would end in grief, I had to say something as I had already been down that road same road, and knew what lay at the end.

We really got into it, sometimes. They went ahead down the road, and it ended in grief just as I had warned. Though they still would travel the dangerous road, they told me that they kept hearing a voice when it started to get crazy. It was my voice they heard, and they would stop and start back pedaling.

All us 'blowhards' just don't want you to make the same mistakes we did. We care.



It's not about you. Maybe it's time for folks around here to stop talking about themselves so much and take some time to listen.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2008, 03:02:34 PM by Dachshund »

Offline Iggy

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Lifer,

I agree with many that you to be commended for your honesty and for your willingness to share your thoughts about how you view things.  Some things I agree with and understand and some I differ on, but I do get they are your feelings and you have come here to share them and seek support in understanding both yourself and others with HIV.

There is only one thing that you said that I want to offer a gentle nudge that you reconsider your beliefs on:
Ive yet to ''form'' myself and my life, and no matter how much you or people encourage disclosing your status, im not going to do that for the coming years simply because i need to build a stable life before i can take these next steps. I dont think that makes me a selfish person, but if you do , go ahead.

I hope you can leave yourself open to yourself being stable and having form without creating an artificial timetable of how you think life needs to work.  It may or may not be years for you to get to the disclosing stage - but I wouldn't worry about it in terms of benchmarks of other things so much as knowing when a situation feels right for you.

Again, welcome to the forums.

Offline BT65

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  • Member
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Lifer, I just wanted to say I admire the fact that you did such a thorough job in explaining yourself, which wasn't really required.  I've always felt that disclosure is a very, very personal issue.  And just because I personally disclose, I don't feel I have the right to sit in judgement of someone who doesn't.  Good luck to you.
  Luv,
Betty
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline rondrond

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  • Posts: 1,712
It's not about you. Maybe it's time for folks around here to stop talking about themselves so much and take some time to listen.

kay...guess I''ll go to the corner and shut up.....pardon me for being such a bore...
"I may not be exactly where I want to be, but I sure as Hell am not where I was"
Wynnona Judd

Diagnosed/HIV
1993
AZT
Norvir
1994-2001
Crixivan/Epivir/Zerit
No Meds for 7 Years

04jul07/DVT-right leg/Bi Lateral PE's     
16oct08/DVT-left leg
Sept '09  6 blood clots in left arm
Coumadin 5mgs
                                     
Atenolol/50mg/2x
Hydrochlorth 25mg/1x
Gemfibrozil/300mgs/2X
Symbicort
Proventil Inhaler
Potassium
Rhinocort


*APR 08~Viramune/Truvada
March08  CD4 330 23% VL 452.000 
*Jan09 Med change~Epzicom/Viramune

Aug09   CD4 523 23%  VL<48
Diagnosed: COPD
Dec 2013: CD4 645 45% VL 49
Med Change: Viramune/Epivir/Ziagen/Isentress

 


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