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Author Topic: Rejection?  (Read 8745 times)

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Offline Gary85741

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  • Native Virginian living in Tucson AZ
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Rejection?
« on: July 23, 2006, 09:28:25 AM »

To me...the most challenging part of lipoatrophy is people's (and I mean other poz gay men's) reactions.  I think there have been guys who didn't even want to pursue friendships with me because of it.  Most will not tell you it's because of what you look like...though I had one that did once...naturally it really upset me to hear it.

My question is...have others on this board experienced rejection from other poz guys due to their appearance...either expressed or implied? 

Thanks,
Gary
Poz since '89. 
Current regimen: Rescriptor, Emtriva, Kaletra, Invirase, Acyclovir, Lisinopril, Lipitor, Prilosec, Valium, Testim, Nandrolone, Loperamidr, Marinol.

Offline pozniceguy

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Re: Rejection?
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2006, 01:53:53 PM »
Gary you are more than correct

..not just other Gay men/women  but "friends and family"  If you tell them what it is and why they think it will somehow reflect on them or maybe subconsciously think they can catch it from you..in short no one wants to be around "sick" people.  I have had another POZ person ( not gay) let it be known that he doesn't want to be seen with me because of the impression the severe Lypo had on my looks..we share the same Dr ...  I have now had 4 Sculptra treatments and scheduled for two more...It will be interesting to see if he continues the same reaction now that I look almost  "normal" in the face....

Nick
remember the good times...honor the past but don't live there
Le stelle la notte sono grandie luminose, nel cuore profondo del Texas

Juiceit

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Re: Rejection?
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2006, 02:22:34 AM »
Yup, Gary--I have had that happen many times---It usually comes from younger guys ( I am 50) and it hurts but then again its like an addiction that you cant get rid of, this disease, AIDS--so it just keeps comin back to roost
Jerome

Offline Alain

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Re: Rejection?
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2006, 02:42:46 PM »
.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2006, 06:43:02 PM by cowandalehouse »

Offline jack

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Re: Rejection?
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2006, 10:29:37 PM »
I dont know any gay people(excluding here) but I sure get a lot of funny looks. Every time I see my parents they want me to see some kind of specialist for my hump and fat neck. This summer they were asking about the veins in my legs. OH, and everyone loves swollen parotid glands. I dont care who you,if you arent effected by looking in the mirror and seeing a person you dont recognize you are very special.
Show up at a business meeting,wedding,or funeral unable to button your shirt or wear a jacket cause of the hump and neck thing. Bummer.

Offline Gary85741

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Re: Rejection?
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2006, 01:52:39 AM »
[in part]  ...They think it will somehow reflect on them or maybe subconsciously think they can catch it from you..in short no one wants to be around "sick" people...

Nick


Just want to say I appreciate the comments you guys have made to this subject.  I think you're right Nick in your perceptions.  Additionally, maybe it makes them uncomfortable because they think they might end up the same way some day. 

Anyway, if I was trying to go to bed with these guys, I could better understand it.  We all have preferences and that's human.  But it's harder to understand when we're talking (platonic) friends.  One would think guys with the virus, healthy or not, might as a consequence have some empathy for others with it.

Now I'm not saying that the reason someone may not want to be friends has to necessarily be due to appearance...there can be  lots of other factors which operate.  Yet there have been some for which there could be no other logical explanation.

Hope I don't sound whiney as that's not my intention.  I'm a strong person in my way.  I remember before my appearance changed...it was never off-putting to me if someone had wasting or lipoatrophy.  So at least I'm not a hypocrite...LOL.

Lastly...what's kind of ironic is in the aftermath of my having wasting, I truly learned to love myself.

Gary
Poz since '89. 
Current regimen: Rescriptor, Emtriva, Kaletra, Invirase, Acyclovir, Lisinopril, Lipitor, Prilosec, Valium, Testim, Nandrolone, Loperamidr, Marinol.

Offline Alain

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Re: Rejection?
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2006, 10:00:53 AM »
.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2006, 06:42:02 PM by cowandalehouse »

Offline billboston

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Re: Rejection?
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2006, 07:20:59 PM »
My ex-wife in a fit of anger and hostility said she "couldn't stand seeing my sickly face!"  It would be that bad but she said in front of our son at the dinner table.  :o

Later during our divorce trial, her attorney accused me of having "cosmetic surgery" and "squandering marital assets!"  She also petitioned the courts to have me placed in jail so as not to continue with costly treatments. 

Talk about rejection!  ...


 

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Rejection?
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2006, 01:49:06 PM »
That's just awful Bill.  You should be happy she's out of your life.

Frankly I've seen who is actually my friend and who is not.  I have a (or was) close friend that I suspect I don't see that often, though we still converse on the phone, that is perhaps subconsciously due to this situation of being out in gay society with my facial Scarlet Letter.  Either that or he's been "very busy" the last few years.  I always ponder that perhaps I'm being overly sensitive or inventing the situation in my head but I don't think so in this case.

Fortunately I have other friends for whom this is not an issue at all.  And also thankfully my parents, while aware of the medical facts behind lipo, never make me feel self-conscious about it at all.  I hate having my photograph taken in family settings though.  Makes me want to cry when I see the end result.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline pozniceguy

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Re: Rejection?
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2006, 06:18:56 PM »
I see some real tense rejection here and that is only the obvious type..the "avoiding you" type is usually harder to see...I seldom allowed my picture to be taken over the past 5 years......even a good workover with  the PHOTOSHOP computer software  couldn't make it much better....I am not a sales person for Sculptra...but I have had my 5th treatment now and am almost back 10 years....doesn't help skinny legs/arms but face is looking good  ( aw shucks  ;D)  I have one more treatment  and then follow up over the next two years.....If the Dr team will allow me I will copy the "official"  before/after photos.......taken under medical /lab conditions no attempt to "flatter" in any way  not just snapshots....and share with anyone interested

Those of you with late stage ( I was stage 5) Lypo  may qualify either through the manufacturer or one of your clinics to have this done.  for low or no cost...there is some hope in Calif and New York that Insurance will pay ,  hopefully this will spread  as "reconstructive  not cosmetic  procedure.

Rejection of any kind hurts but this is especially hurtful when "friends" and others who have been around you start to avoid you
remember the good times...honor the past but don't live there
Le stelle la notte sono grandie luminose, nel cuore profondo del Texas

Offline lydgate

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Re: Rejection?
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2006, 01:52:48 AM »
I find it all too easy, unfortunately, to believe these rejection stories. The cliches about gay male culture being appearance and youth obsessed are (mostly) true. What I find very very hard to swallow is that friends and family are also implicated, as it were, in the rejection process. Any friend who doesn't want to be seen with you because of your "facial Scarlet Letter" is a friend not worth having (or making), IMHO.

Jay
Her finely-touched spirit had still its fine issues, though they were not widely visible. Her full nature, like that river of which Cyrus broke the strength, spent itself in channels which had no great name on the earth. But the effect of her being on those around her was incalculably diffusive: for the growing good of the world is partly dependent on unhistoric acts; and that things are not so ill with you and me as they might have been, is half owing to the number who lived faithfully a hidden life, and rest in unvisited tombs.

George Eliot, Middlemarch, final paragraph

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Rejection?
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2006, 02:09:26 AM »
Well, I could be reading into it too much.  He's been weird with other friends of mine too who don't have sunken faces in the last few years, but not everyone so I don't really know what to make of it.  Trust me, I'm not really losing that much sleep over HIM in particular, but yeah I still feel like I'm wearing a Scarlet Letter when I walk around the gay areas of town.  I've had bad lipo for seven years so I've gotten used to it, plus I've always had a pretty thick skin.  Still, it's bound to affect me and I know it does.  Plus when I lost it it wasn't that gradual.  It seemed to happen all within the span of a year and all over me.   

But hey, this is what therapy is for! :)

My doctor (just got a new one two months ago) discussed getting Sculptra and the cost.  I'm on disability and I guess where he will have me go charges an amount I can *somewhat* afford if I save up.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline southernboyinsd

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Re: Rejection?
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2006, 03:09:34 PM »
Hey guys: I'm new to this site and find ya'll discussion interesting, so I'll put in my 2cents.  I have been positive for 12 years and everytime I've gone on meds. I get the belly from HELL.  One gets the same reaction to that as they do from the wasting.  It is a shame that our "gay" culture is so wrapped up in age and looks.  OK, I"m old and I'm sick but I'm not dead, I'm healthy and I have alot to offer.  I do get angry being made to feel I have no use anymore.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Rejection?
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2006, 07:50:33 PM »
I have a combination.  Withered body everywhere and also had 2 bouts of 30 lbs weight loss (one in 2000 and one in 2002).  I've gained the weight back (6 ft. tall, 170 lbs) numerically but it ALL went to my gut.  And NOT on the sides, all buried deep in the front.  I won't go to the beach ever because I feel I look like a malnourished person from Africa.

I also used to have a decent muscular gym bod so it's doubly troubling.  And yeah, I've gone to a nutritionist, etc.  My muscle/fat ratio on my body is fine.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Doug3206

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Re: Rejection?
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2006, 02:04:29 AM »
Hey Gary,
the same thing happened to me several times, not to mention my own head trip surrounding the fact that I felt like I looked ill...that really did a number on my self confidence. After two years I had decided I'd had enough and started seeing Dr. Harvey Abrams in LA, of course what I had done was not covered by insurance...

the treatments are micro injections of medical grade silcone into the cheeks and temples... this is permanent instead of temporary like so many other treatments ( wasn't really fond of the idea of repeatedly having to go back to have needles stuck in my face)

anyway, the treatments are 800.00 a session and I've had 4 over a 2 year period as my lipoatrophy was fairly severe. Fortunatly I still work so was able over time to save the bucks needed to do this. It really pisses me off that this option is not currently available to folks on a fixed income or on disability.

The results are great. most people who haven't seen me for a while say Wow, you look really rested!, younger, happier, etc. It doesn't bother me to see my reflection now, and my self esteem is at last mended

trust me I don't consider myself to be vain... just wanted my face back the way it was before the wonders of HIV

Hope this helps in some way
Take good care of yourself my friend
Doug
I am the quiet voice at the end of the day that whispers, I will try again tomorrow.
I am the new dawn that you thought would never come.
When you forget me I will show up where you least expect to find me...
and when you need me the most I will be there to  light your way

I am never far from your side... for I am Hope

Offline Gary85741

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Re: Rejection?
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2006, 09:54:40 AM »

Hi Doug,

Thanks for your post.  A question about your silicone injections...you say the effects are considered permanent rather than temporary like some or most of the other similar procedures.  But you also say you've had to have four of these injections during the last two years.  Will you need to have any more injections done...or does that complete your treatment?

Were all the other areas of your body okay (unaffected by lipoatrophy?)  I've not thought a lot ever about having such a procedure done.  For one thing, I didn't know if good results would be predictable (or...one might end up looking like they had the mumps, or might facially look asymmetrical or something?)  The other thing for me...my butt is gone and my legs look bad (thin!)  So even if my face passed muster...were I then to become intimate with someone he would of course see the butt and legs and then that would be off-putting. 

Also philosophically...a part of me thinks that if someone would shun me due to my wasting...would I really want such a person to like me only because I'd had cosmetic improvements?  (Does that make sense?)

Sounds like we've been down much the same road.  And do I ever hear you about the collapse of self-confidence!

Thanks,
Gary
Poz since '89. 
Current regimen: Rescriptor, Emtriva, Kaletra, Invirase, Acyclovir, Lisinopril, Lipitor, Prilosec, Valium, Testim, Nandrolone, Loperamidr, Marinol.

Offline Doug3206

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  • Waiting On Avalon...
Re: Rejection?
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2006, 03:25:30 PM »
Gary,
more than happy to elaborate...
yes, you can have bad results with silicone... which is why it's so important to find a reputable Dr. w/ experience in the procedure, who knows what their doing. Dr. Abrams & Dr. Beer are well known here in the LA area. The reason It's taken me two years is purely financial on my part... the four treatment are because as I said my facial lipoatrophy was severe and it has taken 4 treatments to build the volume of my face back to normal proportions.

to my knowledge here's how it works

micro droplets of medical grade silicone oil are injected through a very small (insulin size needle)
your face is numbed before this happens... because the silicone is medical grade is is essentially bio inert
your body recognizes it but cannot get rid of it so it is encapsulated by collagen fibers which both plump up the tissue as well as holding the silicone in place.

I always had these treatments done on a Friday so I had the weekend to deal with the slight swelling/redness, after the initial swelling goes down then you start to notice the difference in about a week, the real pain is not being able to sleep on your face for two days... oh and no aspirin/ibuprofen during that time

Like you I've lost some of the bubble butt I used to have (damn I miss that butt!  :o) the best thing I can suggest is the gym, there are plenty of exercises to build up your butt and legs, besides the exercise also help to boost those serotonin levels and makes ya feel better in general. Even running up and down the stairwell in your apt. bldg. is a viable option as well as being a great cardio workout!!

as far as people judging you on how you look, unfortunately that seems to be something that we just have to deal with as human beings... would be a much better world if we got to know each others hearts first... but we both know that's not how it goes

Well, didn't mean to go on this long, but hope the info helps. believe me I struggled a bit with the idea at first, and am not a big proponent of plastic surgery, but remember, this procedure is restorative in nature...not elective as most stupid ass insurance companies deem it to be.

Gary, be well
I wish you great things :-*
Doug
I am the quiet voice at the end of the day that whispers, I will try again tomorrow.
I am the new dawn that you thought would never come.
When you forget me I will show up where you least expect to find me...
and when you need me the most I will be there to  light your way

I am never far from your side... for I am Hope

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Rejection?
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2006, 08:57:04 PM »
Doug,

Do Dr. Abrams & Dr. Beer have a website?

Offline Doug3206

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Re: Rejection?
« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2006, 01:51:21 AM »
Website for Dr Abrahms & Beer is wilshireaestetics.com
contact number is 323-936-1245

good luck!
I am the quiet voice at the end of the day that whispers, I will try again tomorrow.
I am the new dawn that you thought would never come.
When you forget me I will show up where you least expect to find me...
and when you need me the most I will be there to  light your way

I am never far from your side... for I am Hope

Offline allopathicholistic

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Re: Rejection?
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2006, 06:22:47 PM »
Website for Dr Abrahms & Beer is wilshireaestetics.com
contact number is 323-936-1245

good luck!

aesthetics with an h - click here for site

sorry - my curiosity got the better of me  ;D

Offline Doug3206

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Re: Rejection?
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2006, 02:34:55 AM »
No sweat, I stand happily corrected  ;)
I am the quiet voice at the end of the day that whispers, I will try again tomorrow.
I am the new dawn that you thought would never come.
When you forget me I will show up where you least expect to find me...
and when you need me the most I will be there to  light your way

I am never far from your side... for I am Hope

Offline babygirl17844

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  • trying to lose the gut and get back in shape
Re: Rejection?
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2006, 02:15:55 PM »
aaaaaah REJECTION I know her well myself, wish we could all have her locked up for life. she is not needed or wanted in our life. but we are stuck with her. I went through the wasteing in my face, arms, legs and butt (ill see if i can find a pic and add it then) I even looked gross to myself so trust I didn't leave the house too often. then I started to filll out again with a switch in meds but no added meds or fillers, I still dont have my nice chip monk cheeks back, not much butt came back but at least my tail bone dont stick out so badly, the arms are still small but not too bad got my thighs back  ;D..... then I did the complete oposit and gained the gut  :'( now I look 6 months pregnate, now how many men want to date someone who looks pregnate? people will question whos child it is (even though none is in there)raises questions when your trying to introduce someone to your friends and family then what do you tell them? so even though I am not a gay man I know how you feel.

[attachment deleted by admin]
« Last Edit: August 30, 2006, 03:08:57 PM by babygirl17844 »

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Rejection?
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2006, 04:42:49 PM »
tee hee... I look 4 months pregnant myself.  All in the last 8 months.  I was always nice and thin before.  So now I look pregnant but have the wasted face = mess

the amusing and ironic thing is that my numbers are the best of my entire life
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Merlin

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Re: Rejection?
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2006, 08:03:41 PM »
Rejection in any form is bias and a common flaw in human condition. We all face some forms of bias throughout our lives and it's really important we MUST learn to overcome this obstacle ourselves.

What gets me most are constant questions from people who know me before socially and professionally. They wonder why I lost so much weight and my sunken face don't help much either with simple answers of diet or being just sick. I used to be pretty buff like GSOgymrat [ he looks great btw..:) ] but have not been gymming to avoid unnecessary comments, some of which were really cruel.

It took me awhile to just accept it & deal with it. What really strengthened my resolve to accept and ignore judgement was something which I saw on The Oprah show. It featured the Woman without the Face , aptly renamed by Oprah as, The Woman who Survived. Those who know of that segment will know of an incredibly brave woman whose face was half blown off by her ex boyfriend. She recounted how so many so called friends left her and refused to be around her hideous condition. She will need at least 5 reconstructive major surgeries to just put a face back on, although it will never be of any semblance to a normal face. What moved me to tears was her incredible will to resist suicide and live; and her determination to just learn and cope. I salute her and those who serve as stars in our areas of darkness.

For those who can afford facial reconstructive fillers and procedures, that is great. For those who cannot, and this is not said lightly, be strong. U will attract better friends and your lives thereon will improve. Although I am currently still not on medication, I have facial wasting. I dun plan to get any fillers yet due to financial considerations. I have made a few new friends who know of my condition but is a non issue with them. I am grateful. For every 10 black marbles, I get a big white one. So find and use up those black ones really quickly and look for the next Big White around the corner. I have made my peace and I feel better. Day by day when I am in front of the mirror, I really do like what I see.

I like to share some words of wisdom to possibly help live your life the best way you know how.

Stay well. Blessed Be!
Michael

People are often unreasonable, illogical and self centred; Forgive them anyway.
If you are kind, they may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives; Be kind anyway.
If you are successful, you will win some false friends and some true enemies; Succeed anyway.
If you are honest and frank, people may cheat you; Be honest and frank anyway.

What you spend years building, someone could destroy overnight; Build anyway.
If you find serenity and happiness, they may be jealous; Be happy anyway.
The good you do today, people will often forget tomorrow; Do good anyway.
Give the world the best you have, and it may never be enough; Give the world the best you've got anyway.

You see, in the final analysis, it is between you and God; It is NEVER between you and them anyway.


~~A poem Mother Teresa hung on a wall of the orphanage she founded in Calcutta.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2006, 08:41:04 PM by Merlin »
I'll leave Hatred to those not strong enough to Love.

                            +++

Believe & The Power Of The Mind Transforms.
Make It Happen...

                            +++

I blame them for nothing.
I forgive them for everything.

---->> Mary J. Blige on dysfuctional parents

Offline babygirl17844

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  • trying to lose the gut and get back in shape
Re: Rejection?
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2006, 08:41:28 PM »
I Love myself and feel I am a very good person, to have someone else Love you, you must first be able to Love yourself. now as far as liking how I look well I don't, my Face is not too bad no more and the pic I posted was 1 of the better ones, at that time I didn't allow too many photos, now I wish I had they make great references, not on how ridiculous we may have looked at 1 time but when some people complain to me about how rough they have it I would love to show them a little of what an hiv person can go through and looks are just 1 aspect of all the trauma and drama we can see in our life now. pictures in a book are not as good as pictures of yourself or someone you actually know going through it. then you have enough details to stop them in their tracks. then they say oh I am so sorry~~shoot don't pity me just stop complaining about your healthy life and look around you.

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« Last Edit: August 30, 2006, 09:49:12 PM by babygirl17844 »

 


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