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Author Topic: Belgium started negotiations with the US on lifting the ban on HIV POS  (Read 9329 times)

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Offline heartforyou

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  • Posts: 1,102
  • I must be a survivor in many ways...
Good news for all of us.

Our foreign affairs minister has started the necessary talk to lift the ban on HIV pos people to enter the US.

Apparently other EU countries are backing the move.

I think thus could and should be quoted as "braking news".

hermie is happy

Diagnosed in 1987 and still kicking
Viread, Kivexa (Epzicom),Viramune once daily

Happiness is the freedom of breathing fresh air every day.

Offline water duck

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WONDERFUL !!

Herman, darling, is it the federal government, or the Wallon or the Flemish minister that is spear-heading this talk ??

Well , the good news is that when they finish biting off each other tails, or comparing who has 'the bigger thing ' ; they would have found a cure !! That is 'broken news'  ;D ;D

Siang is well :) :)

Offline Cliff

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The only problem is that I think there would need to be a repeal of the law, (which was part of another package of laws), that made HIV immigrantion, (whether temporary or permanent), illegal.  There doesn't appear to be any widespread support for a repeal of the HIV ban from either party, so it's unlikely to get through Congress anytime soon.

Offline Andy Velez

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Yes, it would require the repealing of the onerous law here in US. However, Belgium's effort is to be cheered because it can be the beginning of throwing an international spotlight on this disgusting situation.

By doing that and hopefully by being joined by other countries in its demand that signals to me that something can happen in relation to reversing this law. Not today and not tomorrow, but sometime. I pray so and I see this as progress and a cheering contrast to what fills newspaper pages these days.

 
Andy Velez

Offline zephyr

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Hi dear Hermie...

  BRAVO TO BELGIUM!!  It's about time this topic gets brought into the 'spotlight'. Within the last two weeks, I have noticed, with much interest, that the discussion is beginning...and rightly so.

Last week, I was invited to sit in on a world-wide conference call generated by a group called Champ Academy, where the U.S. immigration policy was one of the topics. We are all unified in our thinking that the XVI International AIDS Conference (Toronto-August 13-18th) will stimulate conversation, as we collectively recognize that a Conference has never happened in the United States because of this policy.

Thank you so much for alerting us to this important step being taken.

With much love,

Zephyr :-*

"It is character that communicates most eloquently."

Offline Eldon

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This is a topic that needs to be re-visited by Congress. It's not fair that there is a ban on HIV Belguimanise people to enter inside of the U.S. Definitely an entry on the Congress agenda.

Offline water duck

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Mr Eldon,

If you would kindly go to the thread 'Hey, cowardly sons......' presently at the Clinical Trials Forums, in Tim Horn's post he used the word ' shady fundraising '  he also provided the following link :

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=237.msg5742#msg5742

let me highlight the following : in your AM forums profile ......you are a 37 year old male residing in Miami .......
...............ICQ connection.............you are a 19 year old male living in Kieu, Ukraine

I am seriously questioning your sincerity as till now you had not replied to any of this thread !! HOW COME!!

Or this is a topic that needs to be re-visited by Congress !!

Siang
« Last Edit: July 22, 2006, 06:14:13 PM by water duck »

Offline Eldon

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Vincent Siang,

You need to apologize to me as well as Ann in this open forum. Get your facts straight. You jumped off the lilly pad dead in the water. (and it's freezing cold too).
« Last Edit: August 27, 2006, 05:46:36 PM by Eldon »

Offline Jeffreyj

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I wonder how many of the hundreds of thousands illegal aliens are HIV POZ? I think we let them in. How hypocritical we can be here in the USA! Go Figure!
I will add this question to my monthly email to our state senator John McCain.
So far he has only responded to my bitching about high gas prices after Katrina. But you never know.....
Positive since 1985

Offline brandy

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Re: Belgium started negotiations with the US on lifting the ban on HIV POS
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2006, 12:07:24 PM »
Hi Guys,
the ban is not just for people who are hivt, and it does not apply to persons who are just visiting the USA, it applys to persons seeking permanent residence, what they check for is HIV, TUBERCOLOSIS,SYPHILLIS, HEPITITIS and other communicable diseases.
And it is not just the USA that has this policy, it is a worlwide immigration law, i went through this myself, the law  is if you are infected  with any of these diseases you are automatically denied entry, for  reasons such as you might be a burden on that economy.
However lets so you have friends or family in any of these country, they can file a petition  showing that they are FINANCIALLY able to care for you, and you will not be a burden on the GOVERNMENT, you are granted a waiver and allowed entry.
It does not happen overnight, in most if not all cases an immigration LAWYER IS REQUIRED.
And let me also state that once you apply for permannet residence, you receive a notice which states that you will be checked for hiv, and any other communicable disease, and once if found poitive for any you will be denied entry, but it also states that a waiver can be granted,if you are financially dependent.
brandy

Offline bobik

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Re: Belgium started negotiations with the US on lifting the ban on HIV POS
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2006, 05:33:16 PM »
Hey Herman,

Finally! This is great news, I hope your government tries to find support in other european countries. Is this news published somewhere? Then I can notify my own political party to try and follow your example.

Coen
Coen Honig at Facebook

Offline heartforyou

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  • I must be a survivor in many ways...
Re: Belgium started negotiations with the US on lifting the ban on HIV POS
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2006, 07:59:15 PM »
It has been published in several belgian newspapers.
Our minister of foreign affairs talked about it . His name is "minister De Gucht".

Thats all I can remember.

hug

Hermie
Diagnosed in 1987 and still kicking
Viread, Kivexa (Epzicom),Viramune once daily

Happiness is the freedom of breathing fresh air every day.

Offline babygirl17844

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  • trying to lose the gut and get back in shape
Re: Belgium started negotiations with the US on lifting the ban on HIV POS
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2006, 10:11:13 PM »
hmmm opinions, well mine is like this, in question form. is it so bad that the U.S. wants to keep the level of infectious disease out of the U.S.? but then again the U.S. is not even taking care of their own issues when it comes to many things not just disease but homeless, employment ect...we go a blow up people and places have our people killed and then spend millions to rebuild how silly is that? do they rebuild what they destroy? remember 9-11, who is paying for that? that money could help the people who are in the U.S. legally. sorry if this one upsets anyone but I think we need to start worrying about our own people and get the illegals back to where they belong, I feel we are so over crowded now and cant even take care of the citizens of the U.S. so why take on more of a burden, clean house so to speak.

Offline LatinAlexander

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Re: Belgium started negotiations with the US on lifting the ban on HIV POS
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2006, 11:15:15 PM »
Ok. This is the first time I am gonna talk like this here...

BabyGirl:

"is it so bad that the U.S. wants to keep the level of infectious disease out of the U.S." Te answer is no...But do you forget where all this began 25 years ago? NEW YORK CITY...Yes, that was the city where many GREAT gay guys died.. Now, excuse me, but are we HIV+ such dangerous people to keep away from any where in the world? We are not with an infection to get transmitted by rats or by fleas...This is not medieval times, when you would "quarantine" us in some geographies...That goes against EVERY SINGLE HUMAN RIGHT... THAT IS PLAIN AND SIMPLE DISCRIMINATION...

I Love US, do not get me wrong (Damn I love buying at Century 21, and I had friends at the WTC -who managed to get out of there-). I enjoy going by I75 on Florida, and having dinner at Pike Market in Seattle with those awesome shrimps, and I think that the US has MUCH more important things to work on that focusing in such a minimal thing as a few of us with a CHRONICAL diease (as it's stated by the same top medical references from US). And which is the bad part of all that?  That every single step towards a discriminatory action, like that RIDICULOUS ban, only destroys MORE the image of the land of The American Dream. An image that many brave soldiers created by saving the day in the World War II

Do you have any idea about how the people look at you in many places in Europe, Asia, and Latin America if you say you are from United States? Believe me, MANY POPLE AROUND THE WORLD DOESN'T LIKE THE US , JUST EXACTLY FOR THOSE ATTITUDES OF DISCRIMINATION (HIV+ Ban, Kioto, United Nations Resolutions, 25% of World Wide contamination with only 4% of the population, etc, etc) and  (not going to the Iraq, Afganistan, etc).

Sorry if I got a little bis nasty here...But it is just that I have seen the face of discrimination..the face in which one human being is simply put apart by reasons that may affect to anyone of us.... That same thought reminds me of one of the Nazis ideas.. (unperfect people, left, perfect people to the right). For God's sake we are all humans...not just imperfect goods that must be put in some sort of boxes, away from the perfect ones...

And yes, feeling very strongly about this.... (And do not blame Efavirenz for this mood)

Alex
Poz since Jul 19 2006
Initial numbers : CD4-250 VL 3500
First labs after HAART (Dec 04-2006) : CD4-432 VL-<40 (Undetectable)  cd4%=25.11%
Started HAART: Combivir+Efavirenz Aug 26 7:38 pm
Feb 08 2007 - Gradually stopping HAART cause of Myalgia. Protecting Efavirenz. Stopped Efavirenz, ahead with Combivir....
February 17 Combivir stopped.
April 3 -07 : Started ddi+3tc+efavirenz...
Gay and positive (What a lack of Identity...:) )
Looking for my Ben....

Offline babygirl17844

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  • trying to lose the gut and get back in shape
Re: Belgium started negotiations with the US on lifting the ban on HIV POS
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2006, 11:41:42 PM »
HIV/AIDS has been here longer then 25 years, its only been labled for 25 years. there are proven cases now that it started as far back as in the 50's but was mis-diagnosed as TB. anyway, I am in no way prejudice against anyone but I feel the U.S. needs to deal with the issues at hand with the U.S. citizens before we add more people to the collection. the image of the U.S. was destroyed a long time ago with slavery and raceism and continues today. and I am not a racist either I date out of my race as a matter of fact, finally decided to live the way I wanted with whom I wanted instead of what was expected of me.

Offline Cliff

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Re: Belgium started negotiations with the US on lifting the ban on HIV POS
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2006, 12:00:22 AM »
Allowing people living with HIV to temporarily visit the US (tourists) is unlikely to add to the burden of society.  Foreign individuals living with HIV, (just like those coming in with other health conditions, like heart disease, diabetes, etc), are unlikely to access medical services nor obtain treatment for their disease in the US.  And if they do, they would be required, most likely, to pay for their care.  I think the initial reason, (well at least the primary one), was to prevent the spread of the disease.  However, the disease is spread by the actions of Americans not foreign visitors.  Also, our HIV infection rate is significantly higher than that of Europe, so the ban has not been successful in protecting Americans from HIV.

Most countries, (including Canada, Australia among others), do make it more difficult for people living with HIV to immigrate into their country, by having them prove that they are unlikely to be a burden to society, (in terms of accessing medical care and governmental services)...which can be difficult to prove if you're positive.   But even with the risk that someone with HIV may burden society, an outright ban does not seem reasonable (nor fair), given that you can still have people, living with HIV, becoming a net positive impact to your society/economy (the main goal of immigration).  Plus these governments (including the US) do not check for heart disease, cancer and diabetes, other costly medical conditions that require long-term care.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2006, 12:03:30 AM by Cliff »

Offline newone

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Re: Belgium started negotiations with the US on lifting the ban on HIV POS
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2006, 06:34:22 AM »
It is immoral and absurd that potentially you could visit the US on a regular basis if you were HIV+ and at the same time be denied entry if you were HIV+ with your own medicines.
Sustiva, Truvada
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Offline bobik

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Re: Belgium started negotiations with the US on lifting the ban on HIV POS
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2006, 10:18:59 AM »
Babygirl:
If keeping people with HIV out of the USA was an effective strategy I would agree with you. But this measure leads to nothing. For US citizens to be infected there needs to be unsafe sex from their side. If they don;t get it from foreigners they will get it from US poz citizens.

Coen
Coen Honig at Facebook

Offline heartforyou

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  • I must be a survivor in many ways...
Re: Belgium started negotiations with the US on lifting the ban on HIV POS
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2006, 02:15:23 PM »
After all, the key to succes is education.

Our AMG are a good example of what I mean by education.That is what we e.g. do when we go out for dinner.
We tell people we are positive and encourage them to get tested. Or we tell people in shops why we are visiting.
I speak of Canada, but I would love to be able to fly into the US without fear of being caught and do the same.

If the US could only realise that letting in responsable HIV poz persons could raise the general awareness.

To me it proves that the most liberal country in the world has indeed very strange twists in its laws.

hermie

Diagnosed in 1987 and still kicking
Viread, Kivexa (Epzicom),Viramune once daily

Happiness is the freedom of breathing fresh air every day.

Offline brandy

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Re: Belgium started negotiations with the US on lifting the ban on HIV POS
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2006, 04:33:07 PM »
guys,
the issue is COMMUNICABLE DISEASES, cancer, and heart problems, do not qualify as COMMUNICABLE DISEASES, why visitors are not required to take the necessary test is beause they are not coming for PERMANENT RESIDENCE.
You have to also understand (as I had to) even though it does not seem fair, countries like the USA need to take care of their own people before they can take care of others, the treatments and medications for communicable diseases are EXPENSIVE, THE issue is that other countries need to start taking  care of their ownproblems and not depend on countries like the USA to do that.
How can america take on the influx of foreigners with communicable diseases when thay can't even take care of The elderly, the Vetrans, the homeless etc.
This is not just about HIV, so I cannot understand why the focus is only on HIV, it is about COMMUNICABLE DISEASES.
I am hivt also, and I remember back when I was denied entry how devastating that was for me, but life goes on.
We have to understand the reasoning behind this, and not turn in into an issue about HIV.

Offline Cliff

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Re: Belgium started negotiations with the US on lifting the ban on HIV POS
« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2006, 04:48:19 PM »
There is no evidence that individuals who are positive contribute to the infection rate in the US.  Again, if this policy was about the protection of US citizens, then it has failed miserably since the US HIV infection rate far exceeds those countries that do NOT have a ban on HIV travelers.  The assumption that people who are positive will come to the US and infect our citizens, means that you believe that people who are positive don't care about not infecting others.  I don't believe that is the case.  I believe the vast majority of those who know their status do what they need to do to not pass on the virus.

Also it is debateable whether HIV even classifies as a communicable disease, since it is not easily transmitted.  If you do a search for communicable diseases, you will find that many health authorities do not include HIV in their list of such diseases.

Finally, the point about other diseases, (cancer, heart disease and diabetes), is not that they are communicable diseases that the government doesn't ban, but that they are expensive diseases to treat and often require life-long treatment, (in response to the argument that the US should not take on an influx of foreigners with expensive medical treatments).  We already are and HIV should not be treated differently.

Offline newone

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Re: Belgium started negotiations with the US on lifting the ban on HIV POS
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2006, 05:01:25 PM »
I wont argue about the morals behind the decision to allow  or not allow HIV+ people permanently into the country....
I just cannot understand why as an HIV+ visitor you are not allowed to enter the country and only if you carry your own medications (being prove that you are HIV+).
Sustiva, Truvada
cd 212 Mar 04
cd 265 May 04 (started meds)
cd 389 Jun  04
cd 504 Oct  04
cd 449 Dec 04
cd 518 Apr 05
cd 449 Nov 05
cd 514 Jan 06
cd 618 Apr 06
cd 665 Jul 06
cd 617 Nov 06
cd 604 Apr 07
cd 956 Aug 07
cd 690 Nov 07 (26%)
cd 771 Apr 08 24%
cd 737 Sep 08 27% Atripla
cd 648 Jan  09 27%
cd 627 Apr 09 25%
cd 607 Oct 09 25%
cd 676 Jan 10 25%
cd 811 Jun 10 25%
cd 922 Nov 10 27%
cd 860 Apr 11 28%
cd 767 Jul 11 24%
cd 843 Oct 11 27%
cd 1350 Jan 12 27%
cd 756   Jun 12 27%
cd 1151 Oct 12 35%
cd 965  Jan 13 36%
cd 875 May 13 32% Eviplera
cd 845 Jul 13  30% und.

Offline brandy

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Re: Belgium started negotiations with the US on lifting the ban on HIV POS
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2006, 07:55:04 PM »
No one is talking about hiv foreigners infecting US citizens, the issue is having diseases which they classify as communicable, the problem is care, treatment , medications for hiv is expensive.
do you have any idea how many US citizens are   inifected and have no access to care, or even medication.
Funding for ADAP in places like new york was almost cut, except that people protested, how many persons hivt or not are denied entry to the usa every week? Do they stop living? Hell no
Treatment or care For any illness is very expensive, the United States needs to take care of their own, just like all other countries.
The USA cannot solve the problems of the world.
HIV meds alone depending on what combination you are on is close to $1000.00 dollars a month.
What we need to focus on is access to better Insurance for persons infected, laws or legislations on the drug companies to lower the cost of drugs, care and support for all persons living with not only hiv but other diseases as well.
America is not the save all , be all, it is one country with problems like everybody else.
brandy

Offline babygirl17844

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Re: Belgium started negotiations with the US on lifting the ban on HIV POS
« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2006, 08:47:27 PM »
I am not against anybody visiting this country,but. you know there is always a but..... who is going to make sure the visitors leave when they are supposed to leave? we have so many illegals here now. they work under the table which means an American is missing out on a job I'm here in jersey and see that everyday here. men standing all over the place waiting for someone to stop and offer them work and by noon all of them are gone. ok now they are not getting paid the amount someone on the books would be paid but they also are not paying taxes, the people in my area have 3 and 4 families living in 1 place so they are making out big time in the cash department. and sure an hiv person may come here with meds but who is going to basically babysit to make sure they are on the way home before they run out? and if they run out where will they get meds from? and most times a claimed visit is actually a way to get in and stay in the country i know several illegals, they live in peoples basements and work under the table (and are hiv). i just think we have enough here. that's all.

Offline brandy

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Re: Belgium started negotiations with the US on lifting the ban on HIV POS
« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2006, 09:42:09 PM »
babygirl,
I agree with you 100%, and as unfair as this policy may be the truth is every country needs to learn to take care of themsleves, the USA is only one country.
I myself fell victim to this immigration law back in 1994, what did I do? I became involved in issues in my own country, I was one of the front line persons in Jamaica at the time who helped to change the policies concerning people infected with HIV and AIDS.
I did not sit and throw stones at the USA for not allowing me entry, No I went about facilitating changes in my own country, which further on down the road gave me the privillage of eventually getting to the USA where I now reside, HIVt and all.
The laws exist not only in the USA, but like I said is an international immigartion law, and so I fail to understand why everyone is only focusing on the USA.
I have friends and family back in Jamaica, who have being denied entry into the USA just on financial status alone, do they curl up and die? no Life goes on.
I am actually relevied to see that someone else really understands.
peace Brandy

Offline Cliff

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Re: Belgium started negotiations with the US on lifting the ban on HIV POS
« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2006, 09:52:03 PM »
You are giving us red herrings ladies.

1.  Yes, immigration is a big issue in the States, is it really relevant here?  Not every foreigner stepping foot on American soil, is looking to become an illegal immigrant (regardless of their HIV status).

2.  This issue primarily impacts individuals living with HIV who are looking to come to the US for a temporary vacation/holiday.  These are not individuals who are looking to come to the US to drain our ADAP finances or to bus tables at $2/hr.

3.  Most democratic nations do NOT have a blanket ban on HIV travelers.  Some may have restrictions on becomming a resident (i.e., obtaining a visa), but they don't include people who are simply coming in for a tourist trip.  That's the issue.

4.  Most countries that do not have a ban on HIV travelers, nevertheless do have restrictions on people accessing their healthcare systems (regardless of what they are suffering from).  Generally you have to be a resident or be covered under one of the nation's health schemes in order to access (non-emergency) health care.  The isn't all that different from the US.  You generally have to be covered under a health scheme (whether public or private) in order to obtain health coverage.  That's not to say that there aren't services available for undocumented workers or foreigners.  But by and large, it would be difficult for someone to just step off a plane and walk into a clinic and obtain HIV meds.  Plus you would need to prove that this is even a motivation of those who seek to end the HIV ban.  People who want the ban lifted already have access to HIV meds/treatment in their home countries.  They are simply looking to come to the US (legally) to have a good time.  They don't care nor need ADAP services, (let's not forget that the US isn't the only country in the world that has access to HIV meds/treatment).

In any event, you could alleviate this concern by simply saying that the current law should be replaced by one that allows HIV travelers enter the US legally, but restricts ADAP/Ryan White services to legal residents only (I wouldn't be surprised if this rule doesn't already exist in many states).  And I personally don't like this option either, because it is dangerous having undocumented workers not having access to healthcare.  But it would help the politicans get over the fact that someone wouldn't be allowed to just walk out of a JFK terminal and head to St. Vincent's Hospital, grab a 6 months supply of Kaletra/Combivir and hop back on the plane and take their spoils to their home in Brighton/Hove, UK (where they could have gotten the meds for free anyway).

Offline aphaun

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Re: Belgium started negotiations with the US on lifting the ban on HIV POS
« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2006, 10:32:16 PM »
I wonder why Belgium is in this spotlight.

Is there some special relationship being cultivated between the U.S.A. and Belgium, or is this a blanket E.U. matter?

I’d feel a lot more comfortable if HIV was recognized for what it is, rather than something it is not.

HIV is not a casually communicable disease spread by coughing or touching like TB or Leprosy.

On the books, it’s inaccurately listed as an easily communicable contagion. But one must do a little work to get it.

Kinda like marijuana being listed as a narcotic, which it is not, or a tomato as a vegetable, when in fact it is a fruit, (a berry, to be specific).

I’d like to see the same adventure taken by other countries.

However, it is the host country that must make the statutory changes. In this case, with respect to Belgium, it’s the U.S.A. that will have to make immigration amendments to permit HIV+ Belgians onto her territory. But, why not allow the Brits, the French, the Canadians, or anybody from anywhere else?

What do the Belgians have that nobody else has got?

Offline blondbeauty

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Re: Belgium started negotiations with the US on lifting the ban on HIV POS
« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2006, 08:26:05 AM »
I hope this negotiations are successful. Imagine me entering the USA for work (flight attendant) and having to tell an officer about my condition in front of all the crew.
I understand every country wants to prevent the entrance of foreign people that are a charge for the national health system, but if you are only going on holidays its absurd even asking.
In Europe nobody will ask you about your health status, but you will need to be a legal resident to receive medical attention from the NHS. In Spain, at least, you need a sanitary card to collect your meds at the hospital, so illegal immigrants will not have the right to obtain them by that means. Maybe the red cross or other organizations will provide them to them but not the social security, so the government does not need to know and that is why they don´t ask.
I wonder why any European resident would like to go to the USA being HIV+. We have all our treatment 100% free here...
The only member in these forums approved by WINBA: World International Nail and Beauty Association.
Epstein Barr +; CMV +; Toxoplasmosis +; HIV-1 +.
Counts when starting treatment:
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Offline babygirl17844

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Re: Belgium started negotiations with the US on lifting the ban on HIV POS
« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2006, 10:12:12 AM »
blondbeauty; 
                    good to hear you have decent hiv treatment over there :-*. would be great if all areas across the globe could claim that

Offline aphaun

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Re: Belgium started negotiations with the US on lifting the ban on HIV POS
« Reply #29 on: August 29, 2006, 12:54:19 PM »
Yes, in Europe one has numerous opportunities to experience different cultures and climates in a relatively small area. 

In Canada, depending on where you begin, if you drive east or west you’ll drive for days before you get anywhere. If you live in the border belt-line and drive north you’ll drive forever and arrive nowhere.

And airfares are horrific. It’s cheaper to fly to Europe across the ocean than to most cities within Canada.

That leaves the nearest alternative, the U.S.A., right next-door which has lots of interesting options for travel, visiting friends, family and vacation, except for the HIV ban-bugaboo.

AIDS Healthcare in Canada is excellent. I mean, it can use some improvement, but all in all it’s very good. The Universal Healthcare plan is under fire though and Canadians will have to fight to preserve it. Some people want to change it to resemble the U.S. system, private and semi private. This is not allowed in Canada.

When I read what “The American Way” “provides” to its citizens I’m filled with wonder and amazement. The unwell are driven into poverty if they’re not already there.

The impoverished have little defense and no financial strength. When I read about health facilities closing or AIDS funds being cut and U.S. citizens losing access to meds, or waiting lists for care and meds, I shake my head in wonder. The confusing plethora of insurance systems and the cost of drugs is frightening. The richest country in the world provides so little help to its most needy people.

Xenophobia has its reverse effect though. After all these years of dread about crossing the U.S. border, I lift my eyes to view other sites as destinations. Now I only go to the U.S. to visit family on special occasions, like soon there’s a wedding coming up that makes me nervous, but these days I prefer to go to places that are less hassle, like the Middle East.

I’m sorry Jacques Brel is dead, and I don’t know anybody in Belgium.

Offline Val

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Re: Belgium started negotiations with the US on lifting the ban on HIV POS
« Reply #30 on: August 29, 2006, 01:15:12 PM »
...and there is something called "Le Yeti" roaming freely around the Flemish side :-\

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Offline babygirl17844

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Re: Belgium started negotiations with the US on lifting the ban on HIV POS
« Reply #31 on: August 29, 2006, 01:34:26 PM »
like I said the USA has its own issues to work on, if your poor, broke and own nothing you will get help if not you have to sell stuff to lower your assets to get help---you dont have to give up your home if you own it but if your car is too new forget about it SSI and SSDI will deny you because you have an expensive asset, same with public programs that help with food and housing help (rent/morgage). we are sorry but your assets if sold amout to too much, like I want to sell my car. but unfortunately my car is a 1997 with high miles and a little damage so its worth nothing, so even in a pinch selling it is worthless. USA motto to get help " make sure they are rock bottom and keep them there" ~~~~ poverty brought on by your own country, but hey lets blow someone up and then rebuild them oh and lets make ourself lok good by helping another country by donateing millions our people will  deal with it. I dont care if the USA helps other countries but I say if you cant help your own what good are you? I know alot of you are from other countries and I know you see this is how the USA is run. how is it in your country?

Offline manchesteruk

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Re: Belgium started negotiations with the US on lifting the ban on HIV POS
« Reply #32 on: August 29, 2006, 02:31:58 PM »
I'm so troubled by some of the views stated on this thread.  I honestly don't see the problem with HIV+ people visiting the US.  Immigration is a different story, then each person should be judged on an individual basis as they do in Canada.  But to suggest that allowing HIV+ people in the US would cause the spread of the virus is absolutely ridiculous.  The UK has one of the most relaxed immigration policies in the world (more than half a million Eastern European workers have arrived in the UK in the past two years) and yet it has a much smaller HIV infection rate than the US.  Why not just relax the ban on tourists going to the US as a start?
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Offline blondbeauty

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Re: Belgium started negotiations with the US on lifting the ban on HIV POS
« Reply #33 on: August 29, 2006, 02:38:16 PM »
I admire the USA in may ways and would like to be able to keep on spending my holidays there without the threaten of being caught for being HIV+. What do I think about the current Spanish president...He is the most ignorant and foolish I have ever seen. I even prefer the dead dictator Francisco Franco.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P677mpU_ROg
The only member in these forums approved by WINBA: World International Nail and Beauty Association.
Epstein Barr +; CMV +; Toxoplasmosis +; HIV-1 +.
Counts when starting treatment:
V.L.:80.200 copies. CD4: 25%=503
Started Sustiva-Truvada 14/August/2006
Last V.L.count (Oct 2013): Undetectable
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Offline aphaun

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Re: Belgium started negotiations with the US on lifting the ban on HIV POS
« Reply #34 on: August 29, 2006, 02:47:27 PM »
Manchesteruk you are correct.

Unfortunately, the ban on HIV+ persons entering the U.S.A. was a mean-spirited amendment instigated by Jesse Helms and approved by Ronald Reagan.

Undoing this amendment is a very complicated affair. There are a lot of ignorant, misinformed people in the U.S. Government as well as others who are just plain homophobic who believe or want to believe that AIDS is a gay disease, and in spite of the facts, resist a humane attitude.

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/commentary/20000925_allen.html

The following article is a little long-winded but you can get the facts about Jesse Helms and his impact on AIDS immigration, (even short-term visits), restrictions.

http://www.aids.org/atn/a-128-03.html

Some interesting information about the ban:

http://www.aidsmap.com/en/docs/3E4632A8-4499-4A1D-8049-961C433B5A14.asp
 
And here we see a tentative temporary lifting of the ban:
http://www.houstonvoice.com/2006/3-25/news/national/ban.cfm


But the ban remains in place and it will take an Act of Congress to lift it.

Offline aphaun

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Re: Belgium started negotiations with the US on lifting the ban on HIV POS
« Reply #35 on: August 29, 2006, 02:50:10 PM »
I prefer dead dictators to live ones.

Offline blondbeauty

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Re: Belgium started negotiations with the US on lifting the ban on HIV POS
« Reply #36 on: August 29, 2006, 07:02:35 PM »
His grave is beautiful  ;D But the cross is too small  ;)

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The only member in these forums approved by WINBA: World International Nail and Beauty Association.
Epstein Barr +; CMV +; Toxoplasmosis +; HIV-1 +.
Counts when starting treatment:
V.L.:80.200 copies. CD4: 25%=503
Started Sustiva-Truvada 14/August/2006
Last V.L.count (Oct 2013): Undetectable
Last CD4 count (OCT 2013): 52%= 933

Offline Ann

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Re: Belgium started negotiations with the US on lifting the ban on HIV POS
« Reply #37 on: August 29, 2006, 07:05:29 PM »
guys,
the issue is COMMUNICABLE DISEASES, cancer, and heart problems, do not qualify as COMMUNICABLE DISEASES, why visitors are not required to take the necessary test is beause they are not coming for PERMANENT RESIDENCE.

Brandy,

I think you are misunderstanding something here. People who are hiv positive are denied entry to the US PERIOD. That means tourists too.

The only way to get into the US if you are positive - even if you just want to visit Disneyland - is to lie and hope you don't get found out, or get a special visa that will remain in your passport and announce to any immigration official - or anyone else who may need to see your passport - that you are hiv positive.

You might be able to get away with this if you are not on meds, but people who ARE on meds run the very real risk of being found out at customs and being treated like a criminal, immediately deported and barred entry for LIFE.

Ann
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Offline jack

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Re: Belgium started negotiations with the US on lifting the ban on HIV POS
« Reply #38 on: August 29, 2006, 07:20:07 PM »
why didnt Klinton toss this ban?
Does everyone forget the amount of aids fear in the early and mid 80s?  No one knew how bad this thing was gonna get. It was probably very responsible to bar hiv positives from entering the US given that little was known about the virus then.
Now the ban seems ridiculous, especially to those of us who are hiv+.   I am not so sure it seems ridiculous to the those who aren't hiv+.
As soon as the evil Bush is out of office, I am sure the ban will be dropped.
You do realize that in making your point that hivers should have access to US, you are gonna make many think that hiv is not that big a deal.

Offline brandy

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Re: Belgium started negotiations with the US on lifting the ban on HIV POS
« Reply #39 on: August 29, 2006, 07:25:44 PM »
Ann,
I am not misunderstanding anything, if all persons hivt were denied entry to the USA, how do those who do not know of their status?
There are persons who are hivt, and do have a visiting visa, In new York city alone last year 15 known persons from my country who had regular visa and were in the USA and decided not to go back to Jamaica, applied  to Differnt AIDS organizations in NEW YORK for sponsorship or assistance them to remain in the USA.
Five persons from Trindad. , two from Asia, fifteen from Haiti, did the same thing.
How did they get here in the first place? they had regular visitors visas.
Let me enlighten you, I lived in New York for one year, there are many persons with hiv, who came here on visiting visas who through the Ryan White Center, Haitan Services, who decided not to go back home  were given housing, medical care, food, clothingetc.
Also for your information there are persons who live in the caribbean who have access to ADAP in New York, these are the ones who decided to go back home, all they needed to do was to provide an address In New York City, their meds would be sent to that address aand then Mailed to them in whatever countries they are living.
People from Jamaica only had to get a letter from their health Department to allow the meds to come in, various doctors, friends and families would fedex these persons.
So do not tell me about what i am misunderstanding, In february of this year my friend from Jamaica who is HIVt, visited wih me for one week, on a regular visitors visa.
So I am not just throwing things in the air, I do have prof and know ecxactly what I am talking about.

Offline aphaun

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Re: Belgium started negotiations with the US on lifting the ban on HIV POS
« Reply #40 on: August 29, 2006, 08:38:00 PM »
Of eligible locations where ADAP functions, Jamaica appears to have dropped off the list, if ever it was on it.

So, if I understand this correctly, all a person in Jamaica has to do is register a U.S. address, have ADAP send their meds to that address, so they can be reshipped to them in Jamaica.

Isn’t that called FRAUD?

Why doesn’t ADAP send the meds to Jamaica directly?

And what about the hapless American citizens who aren’t getting meds because someone from outside the country is scoring and getting U.S. drug mailed to them? The U.S. does have drug delivery problem, also known as poverty.

Honestly, I don’t begrudge lifesaving drugs for anyone, but it appears to me that someone or some people have figured out a way to be invisible at the U.S. border and to have the U.S. deliver ARVs to needy communities in developing countries.

All I can say is, "It's about time!"

And I say, “Give the United States a Prize for The Humanities.”

Oh, and by the way, let me in too.

Offline aphaun

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Re: Belgium started negotiations with the US on lifting the ban on HIV POS
« Reply #41 on: August 29, 2006, 08:59:16 PM »
Wow, BB,
Franco certainly left his mark!
I was in Spain in 1974—learned how to drive standard in a Siat—nearly crashed into 2 Guardia.
It was almost as bad as getting caught with ARVs at the U.S.border.

Offline brandy

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Re: Belgium started negotiations with the US on lifting the ban on HIV POS
« Reply #42 on: August 29, 2006, 09:24:56 PM »
Let me explain so you understand, ADAP itself does not send medication to Jamaica or any other country, what I was trying to bring across is that persons who are hivt and have a regualr VISA, enter the USA, there are people working in various agencies (WHICH I WILL NOT NAME) in various cities around the country who will assist these persons to obtain meds.
A person lets say from Jamaica is given a REGULAR VISA, which is good for ten years, they do not have to do a medical, if and when they find out their hiv status, the information is not relayed to US authorities, so they can still travel to the usa on that visa.
The only time HIVt information is passed on to US authorities is when the request is for a permaNENT visa
Persons who are hivt, and have a regular visa, once you connect with the right person, who works in a health care facility in the USA, not sure if  it happens in all states, but know for a fact that it happens in New York.,
all they have to do to qualify for adap, is to get their lab work done, supply a known address IN NEW YORK, where they pretend to reside, Adap will send the meds to THE ADDRESS IN NEW YORK(NOT JAMAICA), the person or persons at that address who is family or friend of the recipient wii fedex the meds to jamaica, or the recipient will come to the USA and collect the meds themselves.

In as much the same manner as illegal immigrants can obtain drivers licences, social security numbers etc.
nothing is hard to do if you have the right source, which I agree is wrong.
But I wrote this to prove my point that hivt persons who have a regular visiting visa, and have never been tested by INS for permanent status do enter the USA, and please bear in mind, it is not just Jamaicans, but people from all over.
Peace

Offline aphaun

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Re: Belgium started negotiations with the US on lifting the ban on HIV POS
« Reply #43 on: August 29, 2006, 09:49:55 PM »
I understand what is going on here. Indeed we are in parallel universes.

The United Nations is an entity unto itself. Anyone on U.N. business is immune from laws and regulations of the territory on which the U.N. does business, whether a delegate to UNGASS or a speaker with a gun in his pocket.

http://www.un.int/usa/host_p-i.htm

“if and when they find out their hiv status, the information is not relayed to US authorities, so they can still travel to the usa on that visa.”—brandy

There is the proof that even you realize that there are consequences if the U.S. authorities discover the truth.

Offline brandy

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Re: Belgium started negotiations with the US on lifting the ban on HIV POS
« Reply #44 on: August 29, 2006, 10:13:14 PM »
Let me clarify what I ment when I said "the information is not relayed to the US authorites", it is not up to the individual to relay this information, when you apply for a permanent Visa, you arequired to do A medical, the letter which yoou receive from INS tells you taht before you will be granted a Permant residence Visa, you will be tested for HIV, tubercolosis, and what they classify as communicable diseases, the letter also states that if you are founds positive you for any of these diseasese you will automatically be denied entry, nowhere does it state if you are found positive it is only hiv, if you are shown to have any of the diseses you will be denied entry.
There is a Special Center where you will have to go , persons applying for permant residence even to canada, have to go to the same place to get tested, I think every country has a centre for this.
If your tests comes back positve, you are asked to do a second test, this is the WESTERN BLOC test, if that comes back positive, the doctors send that information to The US consulate in  the country where you would be granted the visa.
You then will go to the consulate, where the immigration officers will tell you what your options are, you can file a waiver etc, but friends or family living in the USA will have to prove that they will be finanacially responsible for you and you will not be a burden on the economy, this requires an immigration lawyer in the USA, ONCE THIS IS DONE, AND IT DOES TAKE SOME TIME, WHEN they receive the documentation and if it meets thier standards your hivt clause iS then waved, and you are granted the visa.
Persons applying for a regular visa,( to enter as a tourist), are not required to have these tests done, for one they are expensive when I did mine in 1994 it was $100.00us dollars, which in my currency was $4000.00
Four thousand dollars.
When you apply for a regular visa, you are only required to pay the visa fee which is non refundable,  hence persons who might know their status for other reasons than testing for a permannet visa, or might not even be aware of their status, if they meet the guidlines to show that they have enough ties in Jamaica Meaning that they own homes, property, have family in jamaica, etc, enough to say that they will not remain in the USA are granted a TOURIST VISA.

Offline joemutt

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Re: Belgium started negotiations with the US on lifting the ban on HIV POS
« Reply #45 on: August 30, 2006, 03:51:43 AM »
You got the facts wrong. HIV poz tourists are not allowed into the USas a matter of routine:

Section 212 (a) (1) (A) (i) of the Immigration and Nationality Act renders inadmissible any application for a visa or admission who is found to have a communicable disease of public health significance, which includes HIV infection.

HIV was added to the list in 1987 and has not been removed.

If you are HIV pos and want to visit close family, go for medical care or coduct business for a period no longer than 30 days you must apply for a waiver. These waivers are not automatically granted. Your hiv satus will then beknown to the uS Aministration.

If you chose to travel to the US without said waiver and Immigration happens on your HIV poz status (through interview, search (medicine) or ultimately testing) you may be turned away.(meaning: have to take the next flight back to your point of departure).
« Last Edit: August 30, 2006, 03:53:58 AM by joemutt »


Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Belgium started negotiations with the US on lifting the ban on HIV POS
« Reply #47 on: August 30, 2006, 06:06:33 AM »
Brandy,

I don't know what your particular issue is but let me say that the US strictly prohibits the entry of HIV positive people and that includes tourist visas. It started as a regulation in the 80's and progressed to an Act of Congress in the 1990's signed by President Clinton.

In fact amongst civilised nations, the USA is notorious for this particular policy.

No matter which way you try to slice this thing, you're wrong. You can invoke the UN General Assembly all you want but it doesn't change that single fact. Now, you're entitled to be wrong. That's cool, but we're entitled to point it out when you are.

Just sayin'

MtD

Offline brandy

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Re: Belgium started negotiations with the US on lifting the ban on HIV POS
« Reply #48 on: August 30, 2006, 07:21:10 AM »
There is a differnece between an immigrant visa and a non-immigrant visa, if you would read the document in its entirety you would see that.
like I said my friend who is hivt, spent one week with me here in the usa, she came on a non-immigrant visa, she then went to Miami where she spent three weeks with her mom.by the way she vists the USA twice every year.
Like I also stated there are persons who came to New York on non-immigrant visa's who are hivt, and decided not to return to their country of origin, and got sponsorship to remain in the USA.
Please read the differences for a non-immigrant visa, and an immigrant visa.
I will not argue this subject further, as many persons only see what they want to see.
For those of you who live in the usa, why don't you write a letter to your congressmen/women etc. and tell them that you would gladly open up your homes, gladly provide health insurance with your own money, pay for the food and clothing of all persons hivt or not who wish to come to the USA, so therfore they should just grant everyone a visa to come in. Tell them there should be no restrictions at all, let everyone in.
For those of you who live in other countries, why don't you try to fix whats wrong with your country before bashing the usa on it's head, Nobody likes americans, but everyone wants to come to america.
Does everyone with hiv/aids in your country have access to care and treatment? Do persons with hiv/aids in your country face stigma? why not try to change what is wrong in your part of the world, and make a difference there? what about your immigration laws?
America is only one country with problems of it's own.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Belgium started negotiations with the US on lifting the ban on HIV POS
« Reply #49 on: August 30, 2006, 07:49:27 AM »
Does everyone with hiv/aids in your country have access to care and treatment?

Yes.

MtD

 


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