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Author Topic: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms  (Read 18071 times)

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Offline itich

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Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« on: July 20, 2006, 09:45:03 PM »
Hi Aidsmeds,

Good Morning. Do All condoms are made of Latex that protects against hiv transmission? Are all Condoms are effective Latex or not latex against hiv transmission?


Offline Sae

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2006, 09:51:09 PM »
All latex yes, lambskin no.
Extra Sensitive are effective against HIV too.

Find a post by Ann check out the condom link in her signature line and please read up...

Sae.
Meh.

Offline itich

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2006, 09:55:17 PM »
All latex yes, lambskin no.
Extra Sensitive are effective against HIV too.

Find a post by Ann check out the condom link in her signature line and please read up...

Sae.

Thanks for your reply. Lambskin condom? Can you school me about lambskin condoms? never seen one.

Offline Sae

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2006, 10:32:15 PM »
Just do a google search.

Lambskin condoms, in contrast, are the oldest on the market. They're made from the intestinal membrane of a lamb. Small pores make lambskin condoms ineffective in protecting against viruses that cause STIs. But they do protect against pregnancy, since the pores are too small for sperm to pass through. Lambskin supposedly has a more "natural" feel than latex and polyurethane.

Meh.

Offline Ann

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2006, 05:59:03 AM »
itich,

You haven't seen a lambskin condom and you probably won't either, unless you go into a specialist shop. They are very expensive and hard to find and why would you want to find one, when all they really prevent is pregnancy.

The thin/sensitive condoms are very good at preventing hiv infection, provided they don't break. They shouldn't be used for anal intercourse because condoms are more likely to break during anal and so regular or exrta strong condoms should be used for anal.

To make sure you are using condoms correctly, please check out the condom and lube information in my signature line. A correctly used and lubed condoms rarely breaks.

Ann
« Last Edit: July 21, 2006, 06:01:17 AM by Ann »
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline donadelayla

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2006, 06:17:27 PM »
Hi Im Itich.

Im sorry if i only just replied now. I Forgot my Password so I created a new Account.

How about the .002 Condoms? The Brand name I used is okamato condoms japan. .002 is under okamoto. There are many kind of okamato condoms. But the .002 condom of okamoto doesnt indicate that it proctects from hiv. It just says "For Family Planning"

But other okamoto condoms indicate that it protects from hiv.

Other condoms are .007

So does the .002 a good protection from hiv as the other thick condoms? Do the thinnest of .002 makes the hiv pass thru the condom?

And the .002 Condoms are made of sheerlon. Do you know what is sheerlon and if its the same with latex?

Offline Ann

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2006, 06:51:48 PM »
Itich / donadelayla,

Please write down your account details this time because multiple accounts are not allowed here on the Aidsmeds forums. If you create a third account you will be banned.

Sheerlon condoms are made with latex and as long as they do not break, they are effective against hiv transmission. Hiv does not pass through latex condoms. All the information I found through Googling sheerlon said that it is effective for hiv prevention.

Don't forget to read through the links found in the Welcome Thread as well as the condom and lube links in my signature line. Correctly used condoms rarely break.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline donadelayla

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2006, 06:58:43 PM »
Thanks Ann.

So Regardless of the thickness and thinness of condom it protects against hiv? So the thinness is not an issue?

But logic say if its thin it will break easily?

Offline Ann

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2006, 07:02:08 PM »
don,

Yes, a thin condom will break easier than a thick one and this is why thin condoms shouldn't be used for anal intercourse. However, a thin condom is better than no condom - just make sure you use plenty of lube.

When condoms break, it is a very obvious event. Don't be worrying that a condom has broken without you noticing. As long as the condom stays intact, you're good to go.

Is there a specific incident on your mind, or are you just looking for condom information?

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline donadelayla

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2006, 07:00:49 AM »
Yah Ive some anxiety.

First Ive used a .002 Condom that only indicates that its "For Family Planning" It didnt indicate that it protects from hiv. But it says its gone through electronically tested. Is there a latex condom that is exclusive for Family Planning only and not Hiv

Second After having vaginal sex I withdraw my penis from the vagina and check the condom. I saw some white discharge from the base of the condom near my pubic area on my skin. Is that a risk?

ThirdThe Woman Vagina touch my Thigh that has a round cut. When I went to the shower to take a bath it stings. The round cut has no visible blood. But it stings when put a water. Do I have a risk with this situation. I read in another website about "extenuating circumstances. Is this extenuating circumstances?
« Last Edit: July 22, 2006, 07:02:27 AM by donadelayla »

Offline Ann

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2006, 08:06:44 AM »
don,

Nothing you've listed has been a risk for hiv infection. As I've mentioned, hiv does not travel through an intact latex condom, even if it is thin.

The second thing you list is not a risk either. It is the head of your penis that must be covered and getting some vaginal fluid/discharge on the base of your penis is not a risk.

Your third concern is also not a risk for hiv infection and is not an extenuating circumstance.

Successfull hiv transmission and infection happens INSIDE the human body as in unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse. As long as you are using condoms and it remains over the head of your penis, you have no hiv worries.

Keep using those condoms. Avoid the ultra thin ones for anal as they might break - but they are fine for vaginal. The use of plenty of water based lube will help prevent breakage - whether you're going anal or vaginal.

While you're here, please make sure you read through the  Welcome Thread and follow the links for further information, and make sure you also read through the condom and lube links in my signature line.

Use condoms and avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!

Ann

PS... I would imagine that the .02 condoms aren't listed for hiv prevention purely to keep people from using them for anal, for the reason I listed above. Even so, as long as they don't break, you are protected.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2006, 08:08:46 AM by Ann »
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline donadelayla

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2006, 03:11:08 AM »
Why is the vaginal discharge touch my thigh with a round cut/open wound is not a risk? Why is it not a extenuating circumstances?

Offline Ann

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2006, 04:38:04 AM »
Don,

Because as I said to you, successfull hiv transmission and infection happens INSIDE the human body, as in unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse. Hiv is a very fragile virus that is not able to infect once it finds itself outside the environment of the human body. Getting vaginal fluids on a cut happens OUTSIDE of the human body.

An extenuating circumstance would be (for example) if you were to help at the scene of an accident where someone was cut and heavily bleeding and you cut yourself deeply and got some of the other person's blood into your deep cut.

Getting a bit of vaginal fluid into a cut on your leg does not compare to the above situation, not by any stretch of the imagination.

As long as you use condoms and use them correctly so they don't break, you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline donadelayla

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2006, 03:38:21 PM »

----------Whats the difference with blood and white vaginal discharge that makes blood more infectious regarding contacts with open cuts

----------Is there none documented cases about open cuts contact with white vaginal discharge? Is it because if a person wore a condom and become infected people wont believe that he or she got infected because of the open cut?

---------About the cervical fluids that is inside the vagina, can the cervical fluids goes outside  the vagina? Is the cervical fluids the same with the white vaginal discharge the i saw on the base of the condom near my pubic hair?


Thank you for your replies

Offline donadelayla

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2006, 05:48:24 PM »
Anyone Regarding my last post?

Offline donadelayla

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2006, 07:33:22 AM »

----------Whats the difference with blood and white vaginal discharge that makes blood more infectious regarding contacts with open cuts

----------Is there none documented cases about open cuts contact with white vaginal discharge? Is it because if a person wore a condom and become infected people wont believe that he or she got infected because of the open cut?

---------About the cervical fluids that is inside the vagina, can the cervical fluids goes outside the vagina? Is the cervical fluids the same with the white vaginal discharge the i saw on the base of the condom near my pubic hair?


Offline Ann

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2006, 07:49:28 AM »
Don,

Hiv is found in far lower concentrations in vaginal fluid than it is in blood. The vaginal fluid that helps to lubricate intercourse comes from two glands found on either side of the vaginal opening. This lubricating fluid has not been found to be particularly infectious.

The vaginal fluid that has been found to be infectious is the cervicovaginal fluid - and it's not really very fluid at all. It is a thick mucus that covers the cervix (the opening to the womb) and protects against bacteria entering the womb. You are only likely to come into contact with this mucus with the head of your penis when having intercourse. Wear a condom and you will NOT come into contact with this mucus at all.

If getting vaginal fluid into a cut were a risk for infection, we would know about it by now. Consider this. My partner works in the building trade and often has cuts on his hands. He has come into contact with my vaginal fluids when he has had cuts - and yet he remains hiv negative. We've been together for seven years.

I discussed your last point in the first part of my answer.

You did not have a risk of hiv infection.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline donadelayla

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2006, 04:58:43 PM »

The vaginal fluid that has been found to be infectious is the cervicovaginal fluid - and it's not really very fluid at all. It is a thick mucus that covers the cervix (the opening to the womb) and protects against bacteria entering the womb. You are only likely to come into contact with this mucus with the head of your penis when having intercourse. Wear a condom and you will NOT come into contact with this mucus at all.

Ann


Thanks Ann

Another ?.........

Can the cervicovaginal fluid goes outside the vagina/ Can that mucus travel from the cervix to the outside of vagina on the lips?

Is there a Difference between the cervicovaginal fluid and "white vaginal discharge"?

Im not sure if that is called "white vaginal discharge" but its white and sticky much like a paste.

Offline donadelayla

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2006, 06:47:20 AM »
Saw this post in another thread

Re: Vaginal or cervical secretions indirectly on fresh open cut

Jimmy,

Even if you managed to get your cut knee up inside this woman's vagina, you didn't have a risk for hiv infection.

You did not have a risk of hiv infection. Not in the real world. You do live in the real world, yes? Good. No risk.

Ann


Why is that the open knee cut not a risk even its inside womans vagina?

How about my previous last post any reply?

Can the cervicovaginal fluid goes outside the vagina/ Can that mucus travel from the cervix to the outside of vagina on the lips?

Is there a Difference between the cervicovaginal fluid and "white vaginal discharge"?

Im not sure if that is called "white vaginal discharge" but its white and sticky much like a paste.

Offline Ann

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2006, 07:38:00 AM »
Don,

This white discharge you keep going on about is just plain ordinary vaginal fluid. The color and consistency changes throughout a woman's monthly cycle.

You don't need to worry about vaginal fluids getting on a cut because of the absence of the correct type of cells that hiv needs to bump into in order to infect. If you really want to know more, read some of jkinalt2's posts about fingering with cuts. I'm afraid I don't have time to dig them out for you.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline AIDS2HIV

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2006, 12:25:31 PM »
Do NOT use two condoms at once...doubling a condom can actually cause breakage, use one latex or polyurethane condom PROPERLY, and you will be 100% safe.

Always use waterbased lubricants, and always use latex or polyurethane condoms. Condoms manufactured in japan are actually the best, as they are ran through the most thorough inspections and tests, before being released to the public* Also, MALE condoms are most affective all the way around, comfort, reliability, etc.

Be sure to pinch the tip of the condom,expelling the air-pocket out of the tip before you put the condom on, and roll it down over you. The most commen contributers to condom breakage are air pockets, lack of sufficiant amount of water based lubricants, or the combination of the two.

where does doubling condoms fall into the equation? doubling a condom provides airpockets both between both : the two layers of condoms, and also between the first condom and your skin. doubling condoms, is comparable to russian roullette, you may get lucky a few times, but that luck wont last long....

In closing, never use an Oil-based/petroleum based lubricant, as they will weaken and break down the latex/polyurethane compounds, inviting breakage, and drastically increases the chances of breakage*

Some will say condoms arent 100%, however studies have proven, that when used PROPERLY, condoms do have 100% rating. Its sad that they post the stats that factor in incorrect use, when determining reliabilty ratings*

and dont forget, YOUR RESPONSIBILITY doesnt end when the condom is rolled down, it only takes a fraction of a second to check and make sure the condom is staying in place,etc....
Its the future of Hiv Education, and Resources www.aids2hiv.com      Got Community?

Offline donadelayla

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2006, 01:58:25 PM »
Don,

This white discharge you keep going on about is just plain ordinary vaginal fluid. The color and consistency changes throughout a woman's monthly cycle.

You don't need to worry about vaginal fluids getting on a cut because of the absence of the correct type of cells that hiv needs to bump into in order to infect. If you really want to know more, read some of jkinalt2's posts about fingering with cuts. I'm afraid I don't have time to dig them out for you.

Ann


Do you have a link about the fingering with cuts of jkinalt2 post?

If Im getting it right= An open wound without blood and an open wound with blood coming out the difference with the two is the open wound with blood coming out has more dentric cells? and the open wound without blood coming out has less dentric cells?

I assume if a skin has with blood coming out is more deeper than a cut without blood?

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2006, 05:50:25 PM »
Thing is, it is not enough for HIV infected blood or fluids to enter your bloodstream in order to infect.

In fingering, only menstrual blood carries any significantly infectious fluids. This is because the vaginal secretions found in the vaginal walls and the opening of the vagina are relatively uninfectious. it is the cervical fluids, deeper in the vaginal area, which pose a greater infectivity risk due to a higher concentration of active HIV.


Note I use the term ACTIVE and not alive. technically, HIV is not alive. It cannot reproduce on it's own. It requires a very specific type of white blood cell to infect with it's genetic material and essentially turn into an HIV producing factory. These receptive cells are commonly found in the urethra, in the dendritic cells under an uncircumsized foreskin, in the anus, and in the vagina. To a far lessor degree, there are some in the tonsil area as well.

So we have established that even if infectious fluids got into a cut in your finger, they would have to travel through your bloodstream and encounter one of these receptive cells. Not as likely event, at all. To the point where forcing it to happen in a lab using monkeys/primates and SHIV is largely unsuccessful. In a petri dish? Perhaps. In a bipedal organism? Difficult, if not impossible to achieve.

Now, about those infectious fluids. You realize that HIV mutates constantly, correct? Part of it's difficulty as regards a cure or vaccine is this constant mutation. Not the sort of mutation that makes a blood-borne pathogen airborne, but one which, in the long run, helps it to survive. HIV wears down an immune system by stimulating an immune response once the host is infected. And the host then produces antibodies, which destroy the viral particles and infected cells that are recognized.

Almost all the HIV is gone from the blood. However, reservoirs in the brain, organs, and lymphatic system are still there, and they mutate just enough so that the body must re-recognize them and mount another immune defense. This goes on for years and years in most cases, until the ability of the body to mount further defenses is compromised to the point where the immune system basically collapses. During this time, the host is left more and more defenseless against common pathogens, until finally it succumbs, either to an external pathogen or an internal function that an intact immune system would otherwise regulate.

You did ask for the long version.

Knowing this, and keeping in mind that the virus constantly mutates, it is not a particularly efficient virus. Most of the mutations are worthless, lacking one protein or another which makes it basically inactive, unviable. It is Darwinism at a miscroscopic scale, and greatly advanced.

See, the perfect HIV, the "goal," if you will, of HIV is to infect a host and reproduce and spread without killing the host. Not due to any altruism on it's part, but a dead host can't infect others. This is why outbreaks of Ebola and Marberg viruses are almost always brief and contained. it would take much engineering to reproduce a species-killer like "The Stand." It would involve a virus behaving in a totally different fashion than any other.

So the odds of an active, VIABLE viral particle finding it's way INTO your bloodstream, finding a receptive white blood cell (dendritic and T cells) and then successfully injecting it with it's genetic material - through a cut in the FINGER which almost instantly seals itself from external danger, and which bombards the area with elements specifically dsigned to protect and heal the skin - is purely in the realm of the theoretical. Why is there so little research? because it can't be forced to happen with any regularity in a lab, in a primate, in a monkey.

It has never been documented to happen. In the real world, the one we live in, it does not happen. It is hell on wheels to even make something like that occur in a carefully monitored laboratory. Even a petri dish is no friend to HIV.

Why do some doctors and scientists still caution? Because people mired in academia are rarely in touch with the actual, quantifiable world. The notion of "theoretical risk" and 'actual risk" are merged into a single hysterical message. There is a theoretical risk that a planet-destroying asteroid will smash the earth. There is a theoretical risk that our sun will explode. I think you get my intent here.

Let me recap:

Vaginal secretions: extremely unlikely to infect even if exposed to dendritic cells. Thus, cunnilingus is not considered a viable HIV risk.

Fingers: self sealing, and not containing receptive cells which HIV needs in order to infect.

Brothel: in western and industrialized nations, sex workers have a relatively low HIv rate compared to sex workers in Africa and other industrialized nations. However, even an HIv positive female is not going to have enough active viral particles in her vaginal secretions to present a risk to a finger or a tongue.

I hope this made sense. If you wish, I can expound and expand.

Fingering is not a risk for HIV, and PEP/testing is not warranted for such an activity.

That's not me talking, it's the science and the epidemiology talking.
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline donadelayla

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2006, 07:24:41 AM »
jkinatl2 you are the man! Even though English is not my first language I understand majority of your post. But can you school me on some of your post regarding science.

In fingering, only menstrual blood carries any significantly infectious fluids. This is because the vaginal secretions found in the vaginal walls and the opening of the vagina are relatively uninfectious. it is the cervical fluids, deeper in the vaginal area, which pose a greater infectivity risk due to a higher concentration of active HIV.

In doing fingering, do the fingers will reach the cervical fluids? Do cervical fluids stays in the cervics and not reach the vaginal walls/vaginal opening?

Note I use the term ACTIVE and not alive. technically, HIV is not alive. It cannot reproduce on it's own. It requires a very specific type of white blood cell to infect with it's genetic material and essentially turn into an HIV producing factory. These receptive cells are commonly found in the urethra, in the dendritic cells under an uncircumsized foreskin, in the anus, and in the vagina. To a far lessor degree, there are some in the tonsil area as well.

Beside the Fingers No specific type of white blood cell/receptive in any parts of the skin like the thigh, legs, stomach...etc?

So we have established that even if infectious fluids got into a cut in your finger, they would have to travel through your bloodstream and encounter one of these receptive cells. Not as likely event, at all. To the point where forcing it to happen in a lab using monkeys/primates and SHIV is largely unsuccessful. In a petri dish? Perhaps. In a bipedal organism? Difficult, if not impossible to achieve.

So the scientist did a research if infectious fluid transmission to open wounds in monkey/primates.....etc and no transmission occurs?   

So the odds of an active, VIABLE viral particle finding it's way INTO your bloodstream, finding a receptive white blood cell (dendritic and T cells) and then successfully injecting it with it's genetic material - through a cut in the FINGER which almost instantly seals itself from external danger, and which bombards the area with elements specifically dsigned to protect and heal the skin - is purely in the realm of the theoretical. Why is there so little research? because it can't be forced to happen with any regularity in a lab, in a primate, in a monkey.

If im getting it right--- if someone got a cut, the cut will seal itself right away even if the cut stings when you put water or its some blood going out? it seals right away?

Do you mean by so little research, they did research and stop because no successful transmission of infectious fluids in any parts of the skin ?(open wound, cut/ broken skin)

It is hell on wheels to even make something like that occur in a carefully monitored laboratory. Even a petri dish is no friend to HIV.

Can you elaborate on this? I dont understand the "It is hell on wheels to even make something like that occur in a carefully monitored laboratory.

Why is a petri dish no friend to hiv?

Why do some doctors and scientists still caution? Because people mired in academia are rarely in touch with the actual, quantifiable world. The notion of "theoretical risk" and 'actual risk" are merged into a single hysterical message. There is a theoretical risk that a planet-destroying asteroid will smash the earth. There is a theoretical risk that our sun will explode. I think you get my intent here.

Wow! I really got your intent.How did you know all of these. I saw some website but they keep on saying that" If you feel you got yourself at risk you should get tested" And People follow because they are Doctors. 

jkinatl2 thanks for your quality and quantity time. and also to you Ann

« Last Edit: July 28, 2006, 07:28:47 AM by donadelayla »

Offline Ann

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2006, 07:55:45 AM »
Don,

The cervix is difficult to reach with a finger and you are unlikely to come into contact with it. The cervical fluids are very thick and stay in place over the cervix. They are there to protect the opening to the womb.

No, there are no specific type of white blood cell/receptive in any parts of the skin like the thigh, legs, stomach. As Jonathan said, they are mainly present in the urethra, in the dendritic cells under an uncircumcised foreskin, in the anus, and in the vagina. To a far lessor degree, there are some in the tonsil area as well.

"So the scientist did a research if infectious fluid transmission to open wounds in monkey/primates.....etc and no transmission occurs?" That's right.

The skin is a fantastic organ. (and yes, it is considered an organ of the body.) As soon as you get a cut, the body starts working to close off the cut so you don't get infected with bacteria or other things. There is bacteria all around us and if the body didn't start repairing itself immediately, every time you got a cut, no matter how small or large, it would become infected. Cuts mainly get infected with bacteria when dirt gets inside the cut and the body starts healing around it, enclosing it into the body.

A petri dish or a laboratory are not the ideal environments for hiv to be. No where is - except INSIDE the human body. The environment inside the body is a very difficult environment to re-create or duplicate. Taking hiv out of the body and expecting it to reproduce and infect is like taking a fish out of water and expecting it to live and produce offspring. It just won't happen.

Hope that helps clarify some of Jonathan's post for you.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2006, 08:06:00 AM »
Quote
In doing fingering, do the fingers will reach the cervical fluids? Do cervical fluids stays in the cervics and not reach the vaginal walls/vaginal opening?

In  fingering, the fingers do not reach the cervical fluids. And even if they did, there is no legitimate risk of HIV infection.

Quote
No specific type of white blood cell/receptive in any parts of the skin like the thigh, legs, stomach...etc?

True. Intact skin presents an amazing barrier to an awful lot of pathogens.  And since HIV requires very specific cells in order to successfully infect, even broken/rashy/irritated skin does not present an HIV risk. As awful as HIV is, it is fortunately NOT an easy virus to get.

Quote
So the scientist did a research if infectious fluid transmission to open wounds in monkey/primates.....etc and no transmission occurs?   

Many scientists, actually. And this has been proven time and again in the lab, in primates, and through epidemiology. Sadly, on the internet, even credible doctors and researchers maintain a professional conservativism for the most part on the topic, some going so far as to say you should wear a latex glove to finger someone. I personally find this misuse of credibility offensive, as in the history of the pandemic, not a single case of HIV through fingering has ever been documented. And few pandemics have had the documentation and exhaustive causal research as HIV.

Quote
if someone got a cut, the cut will seal itself right away even if the cut stings when you put water or its some blood going out? it seals right away?

It's not simply access to the bloodstream that HIV requires in order to infect. HIV is a specific type of lentivirus whose surface is dotted with protein shafts. These shafts require specific receptor cells in order to "plug" their genetic code. A very limited number of cells found in the human body are capable of acting as this receptor. The two major ones are CD4 cells, a specific type of white blood cell, and langhoreans cells, a type of dendritic cell that works with the immune system.


These cells are, in someone without a major wound, accessed primarily through the genital tract. That's one of the reasons why HIV is considered a sexually transmitted disease - though this is a misnomer, obviously. What should be stressed is that HIV is primarily a "penetrative vaginal and anal sexually transmitted disease." This is because, obviously, fingering and other forms of sexual expression get pulled into the mix as risky behaviour when someone uses the broad brush of Sexual Transmission to describe HIV. I suppose that's what this forum is for, basically. Clarification of effective, but inaccurate media and popular education.

Quote
I dont understand the "It is hell on wheels to even make something like that occur in a carefully monitored laboratory.

This brings the other end of the equation into focus.

Not only is HIV difficult to transmit because of it's target receptor cells, but HIV is an extremely fragile virus. It took a long time to learn to manipulate HIV in the lab - something scientists still strive to improve - because it simply disintegrates when removed from the body. Sperm, for example, can be seen wriggling around for minutes after being placed on a slide and viewed through a microscope. Not so with HIV in its natural state. Well, to be fair, HIV never wriggled. But the virus is extremely fragile, not reacting well at all to changes in pH or temperature or the presence (or absence) of specific chemicals. Saliva, for instance, contains over a dozen identified proteins that inhibit or destroy the protein shell surrounding HIV. And without that shell, it's virtually harmless.

In the lab, scientists have to use HIV tailored in extemely high concentrations, suspended in special chemicals, in order to keep it viable long enough to experiment with it. HIV simply does not travel well - which is why it is spread through penetrative sex and sharing IV drug needles. It must, for ann intents and purposes, be moved directly from host to host without spending time outside the body. This is a major reason why HIV is correctly identified as an infectious disease and not a contagious one.

As for how I know this? I did some major legwork, actually. Most of the research I do for HIV prevention is based on current (less than five years old if possible) study. However, this information regarding HIV is the basics from which a wealth of later study was/is conducted. So it's actually harder to find the first-tiered peer-reviewed journal articles online. Sort of like doing a search for the "proof" that syphilis is an STD. Most modern science begins with that presupposition, and there is no ongoing research to continually "re-prove" that obvious and well documented fact.

Ironically, there is more current and easily available scientific evidence to fuel the discussion of marginally risky behaviour such as giving fellatio. Reaching inthe the vaults to re-discover the origins of current HIV research can be helpful, if only as a reminder of how far we have come.

To make a long story short, you don't get HIV through fingering. You just don't.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

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Offline donadelayla

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #26 on: July 31, 2006, 03:34:01 PM »
Thanks Ann and jkinatl2. You really help me understand.

I have a symptom. My Symptoms is my two toenails is turning light purple. Not actually the whole toenails. The middle part of toenails only. I dont recall having bang my toenails or drop a hard object on it. So i tried nailclipping it to find out if the light purple color in the middle is blood. When I cut it, its wound. After a day I notice a Swollen lymph node in my thigh near the groin.

Toenails turning light purple is a symptoms of ARS or Hiv?

Is my Swollen lymph node because of the wound in my toenails?

Regarding Fingering: Is it hard for a Finger reach the cervix because of the shortness of the finger or what? How about if a guy has a short penis? Will it not reach the cervix?

So my risk: A womans vagina(with vaginal fluids) directly touching my thigh with an open wound is the same like fingering (even the finger has a cut) a womans vagina that is no risk? No need to test?

Thansk again

Offline Ann

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #27 on: July 31, 2006, 05:06:51 PM »
Don,

Sure. Everyone with hiv has purple toenails.

I hope you're joking - I am.

Don, you didn't have a risk. You haven't been infected. How on earth could purple toenails have anything to do with hiv infection?

You have not had a risk. No risk. No test.

See your doctor about your purple toenails. It's nothing to do with hiv.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline donadelayla

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #28 on: August 01, 2006, 03:13:10 PM »


Condoms have been proven to be very effective for the prevention of hiv transmission.

There have been long-term studies of couples where one is positive and one is negative. In the couples who used condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, but not for oral activities, not one of the negative partners became infected with hiv. Not one. This shows us two things. One, condoms are very effective for the prevention of hiv transmission. Two, oral sex is much lower risk than previously believed. We now have the evidence that oral sex is a very low risk activity where hiv transmission is concerned.

Ann


Ann I saw this in another thread.

So those studies included vaginal fluids contact with an open wound on the finger or any parts of skin and no transmission occured?

So my risk is part of casual contact that is not a risk?

Offline Ann

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #29 on: August 01, 2006, 03:25:49 PM »
Don,

As those studies went on for years and included many people, I'm quite sure that there was more than one case of vaginal fluids getting on cuts.

My partner is in the building trade and often has small cuts and abrasions on his hands. He is hiv negative - I am not.

You did NOT have a risk!

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline donadelayla

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #30 on: August 02, 2006, 07:08:59 AM »
Thanks again Ann.

Ive search the internet about cervical fluids

http://www.fertilinet.com/Cervical%20Fluid%20and%20Fertility.htm

You can check your cervical mucus by wiping your vaginal area with a tissue. Observe the tissue. Close the tissue around the cm and open it. Is it stretchy? EWCM should stretch 1-10 inches. You can also insert two fingers into the vaginal cavity and pull the mucus from the cervix. Be sure to wash your hands thoroughly with a anti-bacterial soap prior to doing this.  Do not do this if you suspect infection.

So possible that cervical fluids can go outside the vagina by wiping and fingering?

Offline Ann

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #31 on: August 02, 2006, 07:22:18 AM »
Don,

Read the following very slowly.

You. Did. NOT. Have. A. Risk. Of. H.I.V. Infection.

It does not matter if the cervical mucus finds its way out of the body. Hiv cannot be transmitted outside the body. Hiv is transmitted via cervical mucus when the head of an unprotected penis comes into contact with the cervix. End of story.

It is difficult for a woman to reach her cervix with her fingers. It is next to impossible for someone else to reach a woman's cervix with their fingers. It's just the way the anatomy goes.

You did not have a risk! If you cannot accept this fact, go get tested - hopefully your negative result will convince you.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline donadelayla

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #32 on: August 02, 2006, 06:11:22 PM »
Thanks again Ann. You really help me understand that I didnt have a risk.

But Im reading again the post jkinatl2 made. I love his post and help me understand about hiv and transmission. But I have some questions again. ( I search the internet but I cannot find a website like jkinatl2 post. You are the man!)


In fingering, only menstrual blood carries any significantly infectious fluids.

So fingering if the woman is in her period is risky?


So we have established that even if infectious fluids got into a cut in your finger, they would have to travel through your bloodstream and encounter one of these receptive cells. Not as likely event, at all. To the point where forcing it to happen in a lab using monkeys/primates and SHIV is largely unsuccessful. In a petri dish? Perhaps. In a bipedal organism? Difficult, if not impossible to achieve.

I understand that monkey/primates and SHIV are use for HIV studies. But what is a petri dish, bipedal organism to do in hiv study?(I really dont know a petri dish and bipedal organism literally)

Also what do you mean by In a Petri Dish? Perhaps. (is it possible in a Petri Dish?)

And few pandemics have had the documentation and exhaustive causal research as HIV.

Sorry my understanding in english is not really good. What do you mean by this?

as in the history of the pandemic, not a single case of HIV through fingering has ever been documented.

As in never beer documented? I have been reading here that there are two kind of report. One is Anecdotal report and the other is I forgot.(But it is the Scientific report)

These cells are, in someone without a major wound, accessed primarily through the genital tract.

What do you mean by a major wound? (Do you mean a Bad wound or Bad Cut)

As for how I know this? I did some major legwork, actually. Most of the research I do for HIV prevention is based on current (less than five years old if possible) study. However, this information regarding HIV is the basics from which a wealth of later study was/is conducted. So it's actually harder to find the first-tiered peer-reviewed journal articles online. Sort of like doing a search for the "proof" that syphilis is an STD. Most modern science begins with that presupposition, and there is no ongoing research to continually "re-prove" that obvious and well documented fact.

What is a first-tiered peer-reviewed journal articles?

Why post like this are not put in the internet so people may know that fingering is not risk? Now I understand why is it not a risk. But sometimes im feeling that I got a risk despite being told by the experts here that I didnt have a risk. My mind playing that the vagina that has some vaginal fluids, directly touching my thigh with a round cut might put me in a risk and my mind is playing that it is possible for transmission. The power of the mind playing.

Thanks again jkinatl2 and Ann
« Last Edit: August 02, 2006, 06:13:47 PM by donadelayla »

Offline donadelayla

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #33 on: August 03, 2006, 03:40:24 PM »
Anyone here regarding my previous post?

Offline donadelayla

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #34 on: August 04, 2006, 07:22:41 AM »
is jkinatl2 not around? anyone regarding my post?

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #35 on: August 04, 2006, 07:41:46 AM »
I am around, I am simply at a loss.

 I believe I have exhausted the concept of fingering and HIV, though I imagine that there will always be more questions. I am sorry I have been of so little help.



"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

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Offline donadelayla

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #36 on: August 04, 2006, 08:18:51 AM »
I am around, I am simply at a loss.

 I believe I have exhausted the concept of fingering and HIV, though I imagine that there will always be more questions. I am sorry I have been of so little help.


No its not little. its a big help. Just dont understand some.

Offline donadelayla

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #37 on: August 04, 2006, 08:22:08 AM »
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/pp2/portal/medicalinfo/birthcontrol/pub-condom.xml

I yahoo about condom facts and it shows one of this website. I read here in aidsmeds that none got infected when one of the partner is positive and the other is negative when using condoms. But this website said that in the 1993 study 2 got infected even consistent condom use?

Is this a legit study?

Condoms Work!
In a 198791 study of couples in which one partner had HIV, all 123 couples who used condoms every time for four years prevented transmission of HIV. In 122 couples who did not use condoms every time, 12 partners became infected.1

  A similar 1993 study showed that using condoms every time prevented HIV transmission for all but two of 171 women who had male partners with HIV.  However eight out of 10 women whose partners didn't use condoms every time became infected.2

1Alberto Saracco, et al, "Man-To-Woman Transmission of HIV: Longitudinal Study of 343 Steady Partners of Infected Men," Journal of Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndromes, Raven Press. Ltd., New York: 1993, 6, pp. 497-502.

2Isabelle De Vincenzi, "Heterosexual Transmission of HIV in European Cohort of Couples," European Centre for the Epidemiological Monitoring of AIDS, Paris, France: 1993. Reported in the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 42(30), August 6, 1993.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #38 on: August 04, 2006, 08:30:53 AM »
This thread has went on long enough. I see that the questions not ending anytime soon. Go take the test, get your negative result and put an end to this.

Offline donadelayla

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #39 on: August 04, 2006, 08:42:45 AM »
Im still waiting because im still in the window period.

But is this a legit study?

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/pp2/portal/medicalinfo/birthcontrol/pub-condom.xml

A similar 1993 study showed that using condoms every time prevented HIV transmission for all but two of 171 women who had male partners with HIV.  However eight out of 10 women whose partners didn't use condoms every time became infected.2

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #40 on: August 04, 2006, 08:52:07 AM »
They didn't get infected by an intacted condom and they didn't get infected by correctly using a condom.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2006, 04:56:32 PM by RapidRod »

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #41 on: August 04, 2006, 09:01:02 AM »
You cannot be in the window period as you have had no risk.

As for condom efficacy:

It is impossible for HIV to pass through an intact condom. Period. When used consistently and correctly, a condom provides a level of protection against HIV that far exceeds it's protection against other STDs.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

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Offline donadelayla

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #42 on: August 04, 2006, 04:52:45 PM »
Im still waiting because im still in the window period.

But is this a legit study?

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/pp2/portal/medicalinfo/birthcontrol/pub-condom.xml

A similar 1993 study showed that using condoms every time prevented HIV transmission for all but two of 171 women who had male partners with HIV.  However eight out of 10 women whose partners didn't use condoms every time became infected.2


So what do you think of these that reported that 1993 study showed that using condom every time prevented HIV transmission for all but two of 171 women.........

Studies I read here in aidsmeds/forums no one got infected.

But this particular study 2 got infected despite consitent condom use.

Is this a legit study or what?

Offline Morgan

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #43 on: August 04, 2006, 05:01:45 PM »
Donadelayla,

Condoms can break. 

Correctly used, an intact condom provides 100% protection from hiv infection.

Morgan
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Offline RapidRod

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #44 on: August 04, 2006, 05:03:10 PM »
Here is what it actually said and it doesn't change the answer that I gave you.

Condoms Work!
In a 198791 study of couples in which one partner had HIV, all 123 couples who used condoms every time for four years prevented transmission of HIV. In 122 couples who did not use condoms every time, 12 partners became infected.1

A similar 1993 study showed that using condoms every time prevented HIV transmission for all but two of 171 women who had male partners with HIV. However eight out of 10 women whose partners didn't use condoms every time became infected.2


Offline donadelayla

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #45 on: August 05, 2006, 05:18:10 PM »
Here is what it actually said and it doesn't change the answer that I gave you.

Condoms Work!
In a 198791 study of couples in which one partner had HIV, all 123 couples who used condoms every time for four years prevented transmission of HIV. In 122 couples who did not use condoms every time, 12 partners became infected.1

A similar 1993 study showed that using condoms every time prevented HIV transmission for all but two of 171 women who had male partners with HIV. However eight out of 10 women whose partners didn't use condoms every time became infected.2



Hi RapidRod

My Concern is the First Part of the Sentence that says "all but two of 171 women.........

Offline donadelayla

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #46 on: August 05, 2006, 05:38:02 PM »
Donadelayla,

Condoms can break. 

Correctly used, an intact condom provides 100% protection from hiv infection.

Morgan

Hi Morgan

Do you mean that "for all but two of 171 women......their condom broke?

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #47 on: August 05, 2006, 05:51:34 PM »
It didn't elaborate in that study for the reason the two got infected. There could be several reasons. Cheating, or the condom failed or the condom slipped off, any number of reasons.

Offline Morgan

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #48 on: August 05, 2006, 06:03:51 PM »
Dona,

Yes. Studies have shown that if a latex condom is used correctly every time you have sex, this is highly effective in providing protection against HIV.

The evidence for this is clearest in studies of couples in which one person is infected with HIV and the other not. i.e. "discordant couples". In a study of discordant couples in Europe, among 123 couples who reported consistent condom use, none of the uninfected partners became infected. In contrast, among the 122 couples who used condoms inconsistently, 12 of the uninfected partners became infected.

In addition, correct and consistent use of latex condoms can reduce the risk of other STDs.

As these studies indicate, condoms must be used consistently and correctly to provide maximum protection. Consistent use means using a condom from start to finish with each act of intercourse.

Correct condom use should include:

Use a new condom for each act of intercourse

Put on the condom as soon as erection occurs and before any sexual contact (vaginal, anal or oral).

Hold the tip of the condom and unroll it onto the erect penis, leaving space at the tip of the condom, yet ensuring that no air is trapped in the condom's tip.

Adequate lubrication is important, but use only water-based lubricants on latex condoms. Oil-based lubricants such as petroleum jelly (vaseline), cold cream, hand lotion or baby oil can weaken the latex condom and are not recommended. However, oil-based lubricants can be used with condoms made of polyurethane.

Withdraw from the partner immediately after ejaculation, holding the condom firmly to keep it from slipping off.

Morgan
Morgan Landers

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Thin/Extra Sensitive Condoms
« Reply #49 on: August 05, 2006, 06:04:18 PM »
HIV does not pass through intact latex.

Condoms when properly used provide as close to one hundred percent HIV prevention as medical science will allow.

If this is not sufficient for your fear of HIV, then your only option is to find a reliably HIV negative partner.


"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

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