Quantcast

Subscribe to:
POZ magazine
E-newsletters
Join POZ: Facebook MySpace Twitter Pinterest
Tumblr Google+ Flickr MySpace
POZ Personals
Sign In / Join
Username:
Password:
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
September 20, 2014, 06:08:46 AM

Login with username, password and session length


Members
  • Total Members: 23507
  • Latest: Zopper
Stats
  • Total Posts: 639529
  • Total Topics: 48545
  • Online Today: 179
  • Online Ever: 585
  • (January 07, 2014, 02:31:47 PM)
Users Online
Users: 4
Guests: 149
Total: 153

Welcome


Welcome to the POZ/AIDSmeds Community Forums, a round-the-clock discussion area for people with HIV/AIDS, their friends/family/caregivers, and others concerned about HIV/AIDS.  Click on the links below to browse our various forums; scroll down for a glance at the most recent posts; or join in the conversation yourself by registering on the left side of this page.

Privacy Warning:  Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If you are HIV positive and disclose this in our forums, then it is almost the same thing as telling the whole world (or at least the World Wide Web). If this concerns you, then do not use a username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post.

  • The information shared in these forums, by moderators and members, is designed to complement, not replace, the relationship between an individual and his/her own physician.

  • All members of these forums are, by default, not considered to be licensed medical providers. If otherwise, users must clearly define themselves as such.

  • Forums members must behave at all times with respect and honesty. Posting guidelines, including time-out and banning policies, have been established by the moderators of these forums. Click here for “Am I Infected?” posting guidelines. Click here for posting guidelines pertaining to all other POZ/AIDSmeds community forums.

  • We ask all forums members to provide references for health/medical/scientific information they provide, when it is not a personal experience being discussed. Please provide hyperlinks with full URLs or full citations of published works not available via the Internet. Additionally, all forums members must post information which are true and correct to their knowledge.

  • Product advertisement—including links; banners; editorial content; and clinical trial, study or survey participation—is strictly prohibited by forums members unless permission has been secured from POZ.

To change forums navigation language settings, click here (members only), Register now

Para cambiar sus preferencias de los foros en español, haz clic aquí (sólo miembros), Regístrate ahora

Finished Reading This? You can collapse this or any other box on this page by clicking the symbol in each box.

Author Topic: Can A Leopard Change His Spots?  (Read 5359 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline david25luvit

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,409
  • Member since March 2005
Can A Leopard Change His Spots?
« on: July 20, 2006, 05:22:24 PM »
I do believe people can change.  I believe we can grow as adults and become better people by sharing and being supported by those who have a genuine and good heart.  I also believe there are those who will not change and who will masquerade as "good people" to get the attention they crave so desperately.  At the risk of being labeled a flame baiter, I'd like to know what others think regarding this subject.  I'd also like suggestions on how to cope/deal with insincere people and their antics?  And I am quite serious............
In Memory of
Raymond David McRae III
Nov. 25, 1972- Oct. 15, 2004
I miss him terribly..........

Offline ACinKC

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,994
  • Bring it VIRUS! #2 Ranked In-crowd Member!
Re: Can A Leopard Change His Spots?
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2006, 05:56:17 PM »
With the right stylist.... the leopard can go ANY color he chooses and be FABULOUS!!!

Or were you talking about THIS guy.....


Andrew


[attachment deleted by admin]
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline DanielMark

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,475
Re: Can A Leopard Change His Spots?
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2006, 05:56:46 PM »
Well, the only ones I can think of David are to ignore (or detach if I am personally involved in any way) from insincere people. I have a low tolerance level for anyone who proves they’re out to waste my time or play head games, and I have no problem distancing myself from them – online, or in my daily life. That includes family members of mine as well, by the way.

My days are numbered. I’m not letting anyone waste them.

Is it too much? I don’t think so. My time and energy are important to me. I expect other people to be responsible for there own behaviour too.

Oh, and I usually find myself praying for the about-to-be detached-from as well. Holding onto past hurts is just another waste of time.

Daniel
MEDS: REYATAZ & KIVEXA (SINCE AUG 2008)

MAY 2000 LAB RESULTS: CD4 678
VL STILL UNDETECTABLE

DIAGNOSED IN 1988

Offline Teresa

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,753
Re: Can A Leopard Change His Spots?
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2006, 06:18:25 PM »
If the person is genuineally insincere and all they want is attention I have no use for them. I dont waste my time on people like that.

But if its a good friend going thru a rough time I will always be there for my friend when they need me. Sometimes you need to give your friends some space. If they are really your friend they will be back.

Teresa
Hubby HIV+ 5/5/06
CD4:320
  %: 26.7
 VL: <20
Atripla (started it 8/24/06)
 

Offline Lis

  • Member
  • Posts: 593
Re: Can A Leopard Change His Spots?
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2006, 07:01:10 PM »
Yes, people can change... we all go through very difficult times, and we all feel hurt and anger.... remember  how hard it was for you in the beginning David?  you have placed yourself in other peoples problems.. that's tough to do.. but i have found that it is of no help to anyone to continue the drama

just my thoughts,

lisbeth
poz 1986....

Offline purplerain

  • Member
  • Posts: 100
  • finally figured out the pic thing
Re: Can A Leopard Change His Spots?
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2006, 07:28:32 PM »
I do believe that people can change but I have also had the experience that even if someone has truly changed I don't always see it because I'm the one 2 hung up on the past and have lost trust in that person.
Just my experience either way I wish U the  best in yours
Jason

Offline Terry

  • Member
  • Posts: 339
  • 7/13/82 Infected
Re: Can A Leopard Change His Spots?
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2006, 08:58:47 PM »
With the right stylist.... the leopard can go ANY color he chooses and be FABULOUS!!!

Or were you talking about THIS guy.....


Andrew


Andrew I know you say your straight, even so I think you have been hanging out with the wrong people. ROFLMAO! you have a great sense of humor  ::)

Offline HIVworker

  • Member
  • Posts: 918
  • HIV researcher
Re: Can A Leopard Change His Spots?
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2006, 09:25:11 PM »
If you believe they do it to crave attention then don't give them any. Ignore them.

R
NB. Any advice about HIV is given in addition to your own medical advice and not intended to replace it. You should never make clinical decisions based on what anyone says on the internet but rather check with your ID doctor first. Discussions from the internet are just that - Discussions. They may give you food for thought, but they should not direct you to do anything but fuel discussion.

Offline gerry

  • Member
  • Posts: 522
  • Joined AM Feb 2003
Re: Can A Leopard Change His Spots?
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2006, 10:14:46 PM »
But how do you judge sincerity or or the lack of it?  For instance, when you told this person in question in one of the threads "I encourage you to seek counseling .... and believe it or not, I wish you the best," I had assumed that was a sincere statement.  But if it was, then I would not have expected this question of yours in this thread in response to what looks like a change of heart (although not toward you) from the said individual.  This is not a judgment, just an observation.

We don't have to like everyone.  But we don't have to spend so much energy bringing down the people with whom we will never meet eye-to-eye, no matter how tempting that might be. 

I'm sorry this happened and it's not possible to undo the negatives that have already been said in public.  So my best advice is to just let it go.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2006, 10:23:14 PM by gerry »

Offline Eldon

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,664
Re: Can A Leopard Change His Spots?
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2006, 10:30:31 PM »
Remember, you cannot change a person, nor can they change you. If they are full of the Drama and you don't want to deal with it, just let them know where YOU stand and WHY you are making such a statement to that effect.

It's a 50/50 Chance that the person will change or they will not. It's up to them not you.

Offline allopathicholistic

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,258
Re: Can A Leopard Change His Spots?
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2006, 10:59:27 PM »
Remember, you cannot change a person, nor can they change you. If they are full of the Drama and you don't want to deal with it, just let them know where YOU stand and WHY you are making such a statement to that effect.

It's a 50/50 Chance that the person will change or they will not. It's up to them not you.

Good reminder!

We don't have to like everyone.  But we don't have to spend so much energy bringing down the people with whom we will never meet eye-to-eye, no matter how tempting that might be. 

Great reminder! Thank you to you both. Gerry: You asked about how does one judge sincerity or lack of it? My answer: Gut instinct tells you. Just my 2 cents Alex

Offline joemutt

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,042
Re: Can A Leopard Change His Spots?
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2006, 01:20:24 AM »
I believe people can change. Everything changes. Constantly.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2006, 01:31:03 AM by joemutt »

Offline kcmetroman

  • Member
  • Posts: 567
Re: Can A Leopard Change His Spots?
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2006, 01:37:12 AM »
Awe C'mon,

everybody deserves a chance.

Offline water duck

  • Member
  • Posts: 397
Re: Can A Leopard Change His Spots?
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2006, 05:50:20 AM »
Change - that magic word.

Adults - another magic word.

Now, what change are we talking about, is it the realization of childhood abuse (sexual / psychological ) that leads to depression, self - hate , lack of self - confidence and subsequent dependency, that we want change?
Will then the words 'masquerade' as 'good people' be appropriate.

David, if you have suffered abuse or have to cope with situations like this either privately or professionally, you will not have words like 'suggestions on how to cope/deal with insincere people and their antics' in your vocabulary.

Taking into consideration Gerry's post, i can assure you, YOU don't risk being labelled a flame baiter.
The timing of your thread and it's TITLE said it all.
DAVID, you are sowing seeds of VICIOUSNESS AND WICKEDNESS, may your harvest be FRUITFUL.

BE BLESSED !! SWEETHEART !!
I never imagine I will need to make statements like this here on this site, and I am quite serious .......

Siang

Offline anniebc

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,939
  • AM member since 2003
Re: Can A Leopard Change His Spots?
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2006, 06:01:52 AM »
Hi David

I have obviously missed something over the last week..but to answer your question, if you really believe 'these people" to be insincere then all the suggestions in the world are not going to help you cope or deal with them.

I believe people can change..they just need to be given the chance to prove it, a little understanding and support can go a long way.

Hope you have a great weekend.

Hugs
Jan :)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never knock on deaths door..ring the bell and run..he really hates that.

Offline Alain

  • Member
  • Posts: 680
  • I am.
Re: Can A Leopard Change His Spots?
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2006, 09:38:48 AM »
.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2006, 08:29:29 PM by cowandalehouse »

Offline Moffie65

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,755
  • Living POZ since 1983
Re: Can A Leopard Change His Spots?
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2006, 09:58:19 AM »
David,

I have been thinking about this thread since you posted it, but have been trying to pick the correct words to say.  I don't want to pick on you, I don't want to rebuke you, I don't want anything to do with a quarrel that I have no business being involved in; BUT I know you have the ability, love, understanding, and the maturity to please let this one go.  This is not your quarrel, this is not your Karma, and to invite it into your life, does you no justice.  People have all kinds of problems, and challenges in life, and when the leopard "appears" to be making an attempt at change, your input here does not flatter you or them. 

In Love and Support.
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline david25luvit

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,409
  • Member since March 2005
Re: Can A Leopard Change His Spots?
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2006, 08:42:38 AM »
I'm sorry that a few of you have taken this thread as a personal attack on someone.  It wasn't!  My question was actually quite sincere.  I have a couple of people here in my life that have repeatedly taken advantage of me and have sworn they will CHANGED but everytime I give them a chance....they prove to me that indeed leopards can  not change their spots. 

Tim...I must assume you believe this was an attack against you know who (I won't even say his name and if you think I'm not involved in that one....you're sadly misinformed.  I consider Robert to be a good friend.  He has been extremely "forgiving" of people like I have been and despite the treatment he has received from this person still wishes him nothing but good things....  I think its odd that you should want to call me out about this when that un named person attacked me in the open and without any comments from you.  I suppose whatever he does is just fine....but God help me if I should seek advise on how to handle people who take advantage of a good heart.  Maybe you should rethink that one.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2006, 08:56:35 AM by david25luvit »
In Memory of
Raymond David McRae III
Nov. 25, 1972- Oct. 15, 2004
I miss him terribly..........

Offline Cliff

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,645
Re: Can A Leopard Change His Spots?
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2006, 09:15:06 AM »
Hey David,

The only thing you can do is go with your guy feelings.  I do think people can change.  But I'm not so sure how easy it is or how often it happens.  Because people can and do change, you have to give them the benefit of the doubt.  But I don't think that's a blank check to always believe everything they say, when they claim to have changed.

Actions speak louder than words.  I have an uncle who has a drug addiction problem.  For a while the family supported him, in hopes that he truly had changed, (from the numerous times he claimed he has, and was seeking help).  Now they won't give him support for fear of feeding his habit, until they can see tangible changes (like verifiable enrollment in a drug rehab).  Just because someone says they will (or have) or want to change, doesn't always make it so.

Just trust your gut feelings and go with that.

Cliff

Offline Andy Velez

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 24,703
Re: Can A Leopard Change His Spots?
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2006, 09:21:56 AM »
Hi David,

I'm not going to get into anything here other than to speak directly to you.

All I will say is that the only leopard whose spots you should concentrate on are your own. What others think or say about you is....none of your business. Yes even though you may at times find it provocative and even hurtful.

But you don't have any power over any of that.

What you can do is focus on yourself and making your life as good as it can be. 

I strongly recommend that be where you place your energy and attention and let go of all of the other "stuff." I'm not saying that is always easy to do, but I do know that it's infinitely more useful than getting into tits, tats,  back and forths and holding on to resentments.

Cheers, 
Andy Velez

Offline Gilles

  • Member
  • Posts: 63
Re: Can A Leopard Change His Spots?
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2006, 11:38:34 AM »
Well the best way I deal with insincere people is accepting that we as humans are not perfect and nothing surprises me. I find people fascinating in general and do not divide them into good and bad...its individuals that interest me most....so if somebody is insincere I won't be shocked....I just know that not everybody can be as I want them to be...

plus you know yourself that its their problem not yours...so that makes me even more happy that I am not like them....

ok before I become too psychological I'll stop.... :)

Offline angels4kelly

  • Member
  • Posts: 305
  • IT JUST IS!!.....OKAY!
Re: Can A Leopard Change His Spots?
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2006, 12:45:16 PM »
Quote
Well, the only ones I can think of David are to ignore (or detach if I am personally involved in any way) from insincere people. I have a low tolerance level for anyone who proves they’re out to waste my time or play head games, and I have no problem distancing myself from them – online, or in my daily life. That includes family members of mine as well, by the way.

My days are numbered. I’m not letting anyone waste them.


                     GREAT BIG DITTO!!

My sentiments exactly, Daniel.

Peace,
Kelly
POSITIVE SINCE-10/1990
CD4-610
CD4%-29.3
VL-UNDETECTABLE
VIREAD,VIRACEPT, EPZICOM

MOST RECENT...
10/9/2006
CD4's-714
CD4%-30%
VL-Undetectable
DIAGNOSES POSITIVE 10/90
SAME MEDS, VIREAD, VIRAMUNE, EPZICOM.

SHOOT FOR THE MOON! YOU MAY MISS,
BUT YOU'LL LAND IN THE STARS :)

Knowing others is intelligence;
knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength;
mastering yourself is true power.
 
Failure is not in falling down,
but the staying down

Offline david25luvit

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,409
  • Member since March 2005
Re: Can A Leopard Change His Spots?
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2006, 04:28:58 AM »
Andy...Please give it a rest.  I know I can't control what others think of me...  And Yes...I am a work in progress as I suspect we all are..........

Kelly, Cliff, Daniel and others...thank you for your response.  Like many of you I suppose we have to accept some things at face value....I understand that.  One of the friends I referred to and I got into an argument about disclosure...since he started telling prospective "partners" about his status....he hasn't gotten laid and now he's almost decided it best not to disclose...Indeed HIV can be very inconvenient at times.  I have known him over thirty years and despite his drug & sexual addictions, making promises he never manages to keep and being so self absorbed I guess I thought one day he would change... 
In Memory of
Raymond David McRae III
Nov. 25, 1972- Oct. 15, 2004
I miss him terribly..........

Offline DanielMark

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,475
Re: Can A Leopard Change His Spots?
« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2006, 04:42:37 AM »
GREAT BIG DITTO!!

My sentiments exactly, Daniel.

Peace,
Kelly


All things considered, I see no point in wasting time on other people's baggage Kelly. If they're so selfish as to try to scam me, why should I waste my time on them? Besides, the only person I can change is me anyway. This I know, and I know it well.

Life is short. I don’t “suffer fools gladly.”

Daniel
MEDS: REYATAZ & KIVEXA (SINCE AUG 2008)

MAY 2000 LAB RESULTS: CD4 678
VL STILL UNDETECTABLE

DIAGNOSED IN 1988

Offline Jeffreyj

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,403
Re: Can A Leopard Change His Spots?
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2006, 06:25:00 AM »
I have found that a lepords spots never change. It's safer that way.
Positive since 1985

Offline David_CA

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,246
  • Joined: March 2006
Re: Can A Leopard Change His Spots?
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2006, 06:38:21 AM »
I can wait for the spots to change or I can change how I look at those spots.  Sure, some people change.  I know this for a fact.  These people were emotionally balanced and stable.  Throw emotional 'unwellness' into the mix and it's no surprise that what might be good intentions never materialize.  I generally like to think that I have two options regarding others; I can change how I think about them/ something about them or I can choose not to deal with them.  I've found that, when appropriate, realizing that another's problem may not be a problem to them helps a lot.  I've also come to the conclusion that it's a lot easier to change my perspective of the situation than to try and change the situation itself.

David
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline cubbybear

  • Member
  • Posts: 510
  • Joined August 2005.
Re: Can A Leopard Change His Spots?
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2006, 06:53:21 PM »
Leopards don't change their spots, they just grow more...

I'm a believer of; if it walks like a leopard, has spots like a leopard, and wags it's tail like a leopard.. it is a leopard.
There's a bear in there!
Positive since 2000
Diagnosed 17/9/2005 CD4 35 VL 293,000
Meds 23/9/2005 Sustiva/Truvada
Currently CD4 232 VL Undetectable

Offline DanielMark

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,475
Re: Can A Leopard Change His Spots?
« Reply #27 on: July 25, 2006, 03:22:04 AM »
I've also come to the conclusion that it's a lot easier to change my perspective of the situation than to try and change the situation itself.

And that, David, will be what saves your sanity. (In my experience.)

Daniel
MEDS: REYATAZ & KIVEXA (SINCE AUG 2008)

MAY 2000 LAB RESULTS: CD4 678
VL STILL UNDETECTABLE

DIAGNOSED IN 1988

 


Terms of Membership for these forums
 

© 2014 Smart + Strong. All Rights Reserved.   terms of use and your privacy
Smart + Strong® is a registered trademark of CDM Publishing, LLC.