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Poll

What was your highest CD4 count?

>400
45 (38.5%)
>700
31 (26.5%)
>900
17 (14.5%)
>1100
10 (8.5%)
>1300
9 (7.7%)
>5
5 (4.3%)

Total Members Voted: 116

Author Topic: my CD4 skyrockets!!!  (Read 15575 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Grasshopper

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  • Posts: 442
Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #50 on: June 04, 2010, 03:21:10 AM »
My highest tcell count was 1,377. Those days are LONG GONE! I don't think I'll ever see numbers like that again unless I get on meds. Lowest was this past Feburary. Don't know where they are now. Buy I don't expect them to be higher than they were last labs.

Duh...is the Pope Catholic ?   ;D

Offline billy

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  • be unique... be best
Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #51 on: June 10, 2010, 04:06:57 PM »
I was diagnosed 09/04/2008  (353 15%) and started taking Kaletra/Combivir 2 days later.
Now I'm Kaletra/Kivexa[Epzicom].

same here as you see from my signature. I am fine & satisfied with my combo - no complaints. so wish you good luck :-)
09/07: VL 2.200.000
12/07: Kaletra-Kivexa
01/08: T4 720 VL<50
04/08: T4 1.350 VL<50
09/08: T4 1.465 VL<50
02/09: T4 1.230 VL<50
07/09: T4 1.150 VL<50
12/09: T4 1.110 VL<50
06/10: T4 1.600 VL<50
11/10: T4 1.390 VL<50
05/11: T4 700 VL<50
07/11: T4 1.035 VL<50
02/12: T4 1.010 VL<50
06/12: T4 965 VL<50
11/12: T4 850 VL<50
04/13: T4 1220 VL<50
09/13: T4 1100 VL<50
02/14: T4 1120 VL<50

Offline metekrop

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  • Posts: 351
Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #52 on: June 11, 2010, 07:53:50 AM »
Hi guys,

actually I want to hug everyone around me  :P
Today I got my new results... and I was VERY surprised. My CD4 count is 1.356!
I was hoping to have 800+ but this exceeds my expectations by far.
So what was your highest CD4 count... so that I can have a target for my next test after summer.

Hugs & Kisses
Billy



OMG, You side 1356 ie a four digiit number.  So, when are you going to stop the med?  LOL.

I have my own in the month of July. I am now >450.  I wish I could be geting in the 600 th. 
Diag on Dec 8, 2000, CD 440 VL 44K, No Meds
Dec/08 - Feb/09 CD< 50 & VL >500k hosp'z.
St. Atripla - July/09 CD 179, VL 197k
Oct/09 CD 300 VL UD Chol 267
Mar/10 CD 468 UD, Ch 220
Aug/10 CD 460 UD, Ch 195
Dec/10 CD 492 UD, Ch 172
Mar/11 CD 636 UD, Ch 201
Aug/11 CD 530 UD, Ch 98
Jan/12 cd 616 UD, ch 189
Jul/12 CD 640 UD, Ch ?
Dec/12 CD 669 Ud, Ch 125
May/7 CD711 Ud, Ch?
Nov/ 22 663 UD, Ch,

Offline Nestor

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  • What we love, we shall grow to resemble.
Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #53 on: June 11, 2010, 10:34:15 AM »
Highest was 825, (which puts me in your second-lowest category), lowest was 547, most recent was 687.  In fact, my t-cells haven't budged from the 600s for fifteen months now.  But who knows?  In this brave new world where I have a VL of 799,000, no doubt all those viral particles are fast at work eating away at my t-cells.  For all I know I'm already down to 200.  

Anyway--congratulations on your great results!  I've never even heard about anyone having 1600!  For a while this thread had me really confused, because you were saying that you were hoping to have something above 800 and then got 1300, but when I looked at your numbers history you've been above 1000 steadily for two years now.  Only after some confusion did I notice that the bulk of the thread was from two years ago when you got that first great number.  Anyway, your t-cells are really fantastic!  Keep up the good work! 
« Last Edit: June 11, 2010, 10:44:24 AM by Nestor »
Summer 2004--became HIV+
Dec. 2005--found out

Date          CD4    %       VL
Jan. '06    725    25      9,097
Nov. '06    671    34     52,202
Apr. '07    553    30      24,270
Sept. '07  685    27       4,849
Jan. '08    825    29       4,749
Mar. '08    751    30     16,026
Aug. '08    653    30       3,108
Oct. '08     819    28     10,046
Jan '09      547    31     13,000
May '09     645   25        6,478
Aug. '09    688   30      19,571
Nov. '09     641    27       9,598
Feb. '10     638    27       4,480
May '10      687      9    799,000 (CMV)
July '10      600     21      31,000
Nov '10      682     24     15,000
June '11     563    23     210,000 (blasto)
July  '11      530    22      39,000
Aug '11      677     22      21,000
Sept. '12    747     15      14,000

Offline leatherman

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Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #54 on: June 11, 2010, 10:53:10 AM »
I don't think I'll ever see numbers like that again unless I get on meds.
after this long without meds and with reaching such a low point, no :(, you probably will never see numbers like that - even with meds. More than likely you'll be lucky just to get back over 200 after starting treatment. For many people, once their tcells are decimated (into the <100 range), there isn't much recovery (into the >400 ranges) ever again.

That's just another reason so many have constantly been encouraging you to start meds (and ragging on you for not ;) ). You have probably done irrepairable damage to your immune system (and are still doing it today!) and will have to deal with many years of your future with illnesses that you wouldn't have otherwise had if you had only started meds at the recommended time.

Sub-optimal CD4 Recovery
Older Age, Lower CD4 Nadir, NNRTI Use Predict Slow CD4 Recovery
What Causes Poor CD4-Cell Recovery in the Setting of Suppressive Antiretroviral Therapy?

Poor CD4 Cell Recovery on Antiretroviral Therapy Is Linked to Late Treatment, Leads to Adverse Outcomes
SUMMARY: People with HIV who do not experience significant CD4 cell recovery with antiretroviral therapy (ART) -- even though they achieve viral load suppression -- are at risk for a host of complications including cardiovascular disease and cancer, according to an analysis of the Dutch ATHENA cohort presentation at the 17th Conference on Retroviruses and Opportunistic Infections (CROI 2010) last week in San Francisco. In related news, researchers with the DART trial in Africa found that starting treatment late increased the likelihood of inadequate CD4 cell gains.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Oh my friends, my friends forgive me
That I live and you are gone.
There's a grief that can't be spoken.
There's a pain goes on and on.
Empty chairs at empty tables
Where my friends will meet no more.

"Empty Chairs at Empty Tables" from Les Miserables

Offline metekrop

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  • Posts: 351
Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #55 on: June 11, 2010, 02:19:37 PM »
Can anyone tell me how much is the CD count of any HIV (Negative) person? Please I need to know this.
Diag on Dec 8, 2000, CD 440 VL 44K, No Meds
Dec/08 - Feb/09 CD< 50 & VL >500k hosp'z.
St. Atripla - July/09 CD 179, VL 197k
Oct/09 CD 300 VL UD Chol 267
Mar/10 CD 468 UD, Ch 220
Aug/10 CD 460 UD, Ch 195
Dec/10 CD 492 UD, Ch 172
Mar/11 CD 636 UD, Ch 201
Aug/11 CD 530 UD, Ch 98
Jan/12 cd 616 UD, ch 189
Jul/12 CD 640 UD, Ch ?
Dec/12 CD 669 Ud, Ch 125
May/7 CD711 Ud, Ch?
Nov/ 22 663 UD, Ch,

Offline Matty the Damned

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  • Posts: 12,160
Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #56 on: June 11, 2010, 02:30:11 PM »
Can anyone tell me how much is the CD count of any HIV (Negative) person? Please I need to know this.


You mean the CD4 count of a person without HIV?

MtD

Offline elf

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Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #57 on: June 11, 2010, 05:18:22 PM »
Can anyone tell me how much is the CD count of any HIV (Negative) person? Please I need to know this.

500-1500 for adults, 800-2000 for children
Let's have a Kiki!

Offline metekrop

  • Member
  • Posts: 351
Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #58 on: June 16, 2010, 11:38:17 AM »
You mean the CD4 count of a person without HIV?

MtD


Yes
Diag on Dec 8, 2000, CD 440 VL 44K, No Meds
Dec/08 - Feb/09 CD< 50 & VL >500k hosp'z.
St. Atripla - July/09 CD 179, VL 197k
Oct/09 CD 300 VL UD Chol 267
Mar/10 CD 468 UD, Ch 220
Aug/10 CD 460 UD, Ch 195
Dec/10 CD 492 UD, Ch 172
Mar/11 CD 636 UD, Ch 201
Aug/11 CD 530 UD, Ch 98
Jan/12 cd 616 UD, ch 189
Jul/12 CD 640 UD, Ch ?
Dec/12 CD 669 Ud, Ch 125
May/7 CD711 Ud, Ch?
Nov/ 22 663 UD, Ch,

Online eric48

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  • @HIVPharmaCure & tinyurl.com/HIVPharmaCure
join the contest: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #59 on: July 14, 2010, 04:01:05 PM »
Hi,

I am about to join the contest

08/09 : infected (age 47)
09/09 : sero conversion
04/10 : tested +
04/10 : CD4: 440 CD4%: 18 CD8%: 61 VL: 65k (4.82 log)
05/10 : CD4: 535 CD4%: 16 CD8%: 63 VL: 52k (4.71 log)
05/10 : CD4: 453 CD4%: 20 CD8%: 55 VL: 68k (4.84 log)
06/10 : Viramune (Nevirapine) + Kivexa (Epzicom)
07/10 : CD4: 650 CD4%: 29 CD8%: 49 VL: VL: 600  (2.7 log)

most importantly, I am interested in ways to help the immune system recovery.
At my  age some dynamics start to slow down ... On the other hand I am getting more open to ways to help my body recover (even if the effect is only marginal to the meds)

By the way, Billy, you have posting such good results... What's your age ?

All suggestions welcome !

Eric

Offline joemutt

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  • Posts: 1,035
Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #60 on: July 14, 2010, 04:10:06 PM »
highest 1500 (now), lowest 220 (1997).

Online eric48

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Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #61 on: September 09, 2010, 05:27:57 PM »
of interest to this topic:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20812848

Biological Determinants of Immune Reconstitution in HIV-Infected Patients Receiving Antiretroviral Therapy: The Role of Interleukin 7 and Interleukin 7 Receptor alpha and Microbial Translocation.

I was doing some research as I was so surprised to see on one hand my CD4 climb from 450 to 800 in 2 months (therefore a 350 increase at 8 weeks after starting ARV) and on the other a slower than expected virologic response (VL at 220 at week 11) (currently redoing genotype and discussing possible resistance...)

How strange ...

Eric

Offline natthai

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  • Posts: 130
  • The truth is not determined by majority vote.
Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #62 on: September 16, 2010, 06:43:58 AM »
Hey Billy

Thanks for this thread. I have been wanting to discuss high CD4 numbers for a while.

I have you beat by 9, I am currently at 1365 however I have not started treatment yet.

What I would like to know is WHY?

I have heard so many opinions on here:

Supplements are useless
Supplements are helpful
Nutrition is key
Stress/lifestyle are important factors.
HAART is the only factor.
It's all in the Genes
Smoking reduced viral load (ok just seeing if anyone is awake lol :)
etc etc etc

I have even heard an anthroploogist theorize that the reason why Apes beat their chest before battle is because the Thymus (which is like the lymphatic brain which produces T-Cells) is located there and by tapping it you can stimulate the production of T-Cells!

So Billy as a fellow high CD4er do you have any idea what factors play a part in your high CD4 numbers? I wonder if there are any common traits we can discover that contribute to high CD4 numbers.

I would also like to ask the experts and experienced posters on this forum. Is CD4 really a good indication of immune function? I have heard that the numbers can fluctuate GREATLY based on several factors: the lab you test at, the test kit they use, time- from day to day or even hour to hour (higher at night, lower in the daytime for example). I have also heard that people even with high CD4 numbers can still get sick, feel bad whereas some people can stay relatively healthy with low numbers. So I wonder if CD4 is the holy grail of HIV disease progression. Since it is a new disease, I wonder if they are doing any other basic research into other body systems that might play a factor in this disease.

I was reading about CD4 on wikipedia and apparently CD4 cells were discovered in in the late 70s and were only named in 1984. So using CD4 as a measure of immune function is a relatively new technique (as is this virus for that matter). I know they don't routinely test uninfected individuals CD4 numbers (do they?). I want to learn more about this issue, are there any microbiologists out there that know of the initial basic research that went into studying CD4 and its usefulness in disease progression. I wonder if there are other factors and if so what they are. Any ideas?

I have one idea that I stumbled upon accidentally when I was researching and it has to do with IL-2/4/6/12 levels for those of you that know what those are.

Has anyone asked their doctors about the specific significance of CD4 numbers? When I asked I basically got "it's normal" or "its in the normal range or variability".
Infection date: February 14, 2010 (yeah really)
08/03/2010 - CD4 621 (27%) VL 72,250
25/03/2010 - CD4 981 (28%) VL 122,719 <-started anti-oxidants (ABCDE, Se, ALA, NAC)
11/08/2010 - CD4 1,365 (31%) VL 5,451

Online eric48

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  • @HIVPharmaCure & tinyurl.com/HIVPharmaCure
Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #63 on: September 16, 2010, 07:22:45 AM »
11/08/2010 - CD4 1,365 (31%) VL 5,451 !!!

Your VL is very LOW ... Congrats! Do you think it is due to the antioxydants?

Could you please detail a bit: brand names, etc.

Thanks in advance

Eric

Offline natthai

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  • The truth is not determined by majority vote.
Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #64 on: September 16, 2010, 09:55:01 AM »
11/08/2010 - CD4 1,365 (31%) VL 5,451 !!!

Your VL is very LOW ... Congrats! Do you think it is due to the antioxydants?

Could you please detail a bit: brand names, etc.

Thanks in advance

Eric

VL low from Antioxidants, No.

I am not sure about my VL numbers that was a surprise to me as well. I did however embark on a 4 month research period where I studied my new illness 16 hours a day (i'm a bit obsessive). I was specifically looking for a way to boost or maintain CD4 numbers (immune reconstruction after the acute infection). I would like to say that I found something but to be truthful I did not.

I came up with the same anti-oxidant list that everyone else who likes supplements mentions on here however I do not believe anti-oxidants are the answer (although I am not convinced they are useless either and I do concede there is no good evidence to show either way).

Instead I came across something completely be accident. I started taking a supplement (a very common endogenous hormone produced by the pituitary gland) for an unrelated benzodiazepine withdraw problem as a sleep aid. It functioned well for helping me sleep but I did not think that it had anything to do with my infection at that time.

One day as I was researching I typed the name if each supplement I was taking into pub med plus HIV. So for example: "Vitamin D, HIV" "Selenium, HIV" etc. Ever search returned hundreds of studies, often conflicting or small in size, nothing that screamed out to me "this is the one".

All except this hormone, I only got 4 results- there was almost NO research done on it in the context of HIV. I found this interesting. As I started to understand thing like what the Thymus gland is (and what stimulates it), why CD4 levels are highest at night and lowest in the daytime, Interleukin and how they operate I started to think there might be something to this. I have no research, no evidence other than myself as anecdotal and just an incomplete theory.

Also my own results aren't that spectacular if you consider that I have only been monitoring for just over 6 months. I might get the next test and my CD4 might be 400 (I hope not!)

I think to really get an idea of disease progression you have to look at a long term view >2 or >5 years. So until I can put all of the pieces together and talk to an endocrinologist I will just keep researching and maybe come up with a coherent theory. I am still learning and I am a noob, until then I am not sure it would be responsible to tell my theory to the world and I don't want to upset anyone and I may very well be wrong.
Infection date: February 14, 2010 (yeah really)
08/03/2010 - CD4 621 (27%) VL 72,250
25/03/2010 - CD4 981 (28%) VL 122,719 <-started anti-oxidants (ABCDE, Se, ALA, NAC)
11/08/2010 - CD4 1,365 (31%) VL 5,451

Offline mewithu

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  • mewithu
Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #65 on: September 16, 2010, 10:06:31 AM »
Mine was staying around 200 and below for the longest time until the last check as I have changed my regiman too. It is Combivir , reyataz , Isentress plus many other profalactics for many other things that are wrong with me.
1997 is when I found out, being deathly ill. I had to go to the hospital due to extreme headache and fever. I fell coma like,  two months later weighing 95 pounds and in extreme pain and awoke to knowledge of Pancreatis, Cryptococcal Meningitis, Thrush,Severe Diarea,  Wasting, PCP pneumonia. No eating, only through tpn. Very sick, I was lucky I had good insurance with the company I worked for. I was in the hospital for three months that time. 
(2010 Now doing OK cd4=210  VL= < 75)
I have become resistant to many nukes and non nukes, Now on Reyataz, , Combivir. Working well for me not too many side effects.  I have the wasting syndrome, Fatigue  . Hard to deal with but believe it or not I have been through worse. Three Pulmonary Embolism's in my life. 2012 520 t's <20 V load

Offline natthai

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Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #66 on: September 16, 2010, 11:33:10 AM »
Mine was staying around 200 and below for the longest time until the last check as I have changed my regiman too. It is Combivir , reyataz , Isentress plus many other profalactics for many other things that are wrong with me.

What do you attribute your resistance to? Did you ever take Acyclovir for Herpes infection?
Infection date: February 14, 2010 (yeah really)
08/03/2010 - CD4 621 (27%) VL 72,250
25/03/2010 - CD4 981 (28%) VL 122,719 <-started anti-oxidants (ABCDE, Se, ALA, NAC)
11/08/2010 - CD4 1,365 (31%) VL 5,451

Online eric48

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Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #67 on: September 16, 2010, 07:01:42 PM »
Natthai, sorry, I missed a point, your numbers are taken very close to time of infection, so things have not stabilized yet...

Take care  Eric

Offline natthai

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Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #68 on: September 17, 2010, 08:20:41 AM »
Natthai, sorry, I missed a point, your numbers are taken very close to time of infection, so things have not stabilized yet...

Take care  Eric

Yeah you are probably right, I am just 7 month into things. My Doctor told me that I hit my "set point" if that means that same thing as stabilized I don't know but I think it probably takes 2 or 3 years of consistent results to show something right?
Infection date: February 14, 2010 (yeah really)
08/03/2010 - CD4 621 (27%) VL 72,250
25/03/2010 - CD4 981 (28%) VL 122,719 <-started anti-oxidants (ABCDE, Se, ALA, NAC)
11/08/2010 - CD4 1,365 (31%) VL 5,451

Online eric48

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Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #69 on: September 17, 2010, 04:49:42 PM »
Well, you will want to check closely. Without meds, some people do not even have 2-3 years.

But, your numbers are good, indeed...When CD4 is high , % high and VL low, there is no hurry.

I wonder... I think this thread was trying to figure out hwo well people RECOVER after meds.

Your numbers, for as nice as they are, may be out of context. Lucky you... Eric

Offline billy

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Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #70 on: November 17, 2010, 04:19:47 PM »
Hey Billy

Thanks for this thread. I have been wanting to discuss high CD4 numbers for a while.
I have you beat by 9, I am currently at 1365 however I have not started treatment yet.
What I would like to know is WHY?

So Billy as a fellow high CD4er do you have any idea what factors play a part in your high CD4 numbers?

Hi guys,

sorry for late reply. By the way, by the end of this week I will get my updated numbers... so let's see what they will be. Actually I don't hope any big changes to previous.

Anyhow, till to date I am 32 yrs old. So regarding your question why my CD4 count is quite high - I have no idea, but I will let you see a bit in my daily life.

Sleeping about 7 hrs
Working about 9 hrs
Sports about 3-5 times per week (gym/tennis) about 1-2 hrs

smoker: yes, 5-8 cigs per day
alcohol: no, just 1-2 drinks per week
drugs: no
sex / stroking:  ::)  ???  8)
HAART: regularly (average miss 1 per month)

My nutrition is quite usual. Sometimes I have 3 dishes per day / sometime 2 and some sweet stuff. It depends. Breakfast always some toast and milk. Evenings some yoguhrt, maybe toast again, eggs, noodles, normal stuff. I don't take any "special" supplements. I just drink my juice, also "Actimel" / "vie" (for the European guys ;-) about every second day. And about every 6 months I do a "cell oxygene immune complex" treatment. It's an immune power "drink". I don't know how to explain, but you can google with "Zell Oxygen Immunkomplex by Dr Wolz". I really don't know is the last thing causes my CD4s...

My Doc was also wondering, especially at my test from June with CD4 1600+. Anyhow, I hope this info is useful... take care guys
09/07: VL 2.200.000
12/07: Kaletra-Kivexa
01/08: T4 720 VL<50
04/08: T4 1.350 VL<50
09/08: T4 1.465 VL<50
02/09: T4 1.230 VL<50
07/09: T4 1.150 VL<50
12/09: T4 1.110 VL<50
06/10: T4 1.600 VL<50
11/10: T4 1.390 VL<50
05/11: T4 700 VL<50
07/11: T4 1.035 VL<50
02/12: T4 1.010 VL<50
06/12: T4 965 VL<50
11/12: T4 850 VL<50
04/13: T4 1220 VL<50
09/13: T4 1100 VL<50
02/14: T4 1120 VL<50

Offline natthai

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Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #71 on: November 18, 2010, 12:35:33 AM »
I wonder if smoking (tobacco) can actually be immune stimulating in some way. Many of the LTNP or LTSP I have talked to are active smokers. I myself had taken up smoking/chewing nicotine gum for a period. I also read a shocking study that suggested very directly that nicotine directly interferes with KS! Nicotine is a pretty messy drug in that it affects a lot of brain chemistry and I know that at least one neurochemical- tryptaphan (an amino acid) is indicated in HIV disease progression. Anyone else have an idea about smoking and HIV?
Infection date: February 14, 2010 (yeah really)
08/03/2010 - CD4 621 (27%) VL 72,250
25/03/2010 - CD4 981 (28%) VL 122,719 <-started anti-oxidants (ABCDE, Se, ALA, NAC)
11/08/2010 - CD4 1,365 (31%) VL 5,451

Offline BM

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Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #72 on: November 18, 2010, 06:51:16 AM »
Highest: 411, lowest: 37.

Offline natthai

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Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #73 on: November 18, 2010, 10:06:21 AM »
Highest for me so far was 1365 (my last) however I have a feeling that my next one will be substantially lower. I read that CD4 fluxuates sometimes as much as 100-200 between visits. Anyone longtermers know about this, are you aware of any studies that show the variation of CD4 say on a 3-6 month basis?

I think I also read that if untreated CD4 will generally drop at a constant rate of 20-30/year until <200 and AIDS. Has anyone heard this as well?
Infection date: February 14, 2010 (yeah really)
08/03/2010 - CD4 621 (27%) VL 72,250
25/03/2010 - CD4 981 (28%) VL 122,719 <-started anti-oxidants (ABCDE, Se, ALA, NAC)
11/08/2010 - CD4 1,365 (31%) VL 5,451

Offline Nestor

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Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #74 on: November 18, 2010, 10:30:34 AM »


I think I also read that if untreated CD4 will generally drop at a constant rate of 20-30/year until <200 and AIDS. Has anyone heard this as well?

I have heard that, and I have also heard that it would drop at a rate of 50 t-cells a year.  But whichever one of these is true, (or if the truth is some other number) they are averages, and like all averages they mask a great deal of variety from one individual to the next.  My yearly average hasn't dropped at all if I'm calculating correctly. 
Summer 2004--became HIV+
Dec. 2005--found out

Date          CD4    %       VL
Jan. '06    725    25      9,097
Nov. '06    671    34     52,202
Apr. '07    553    30      24,270
Sept. '07  685    27       4,849
Jan. '08    825    29       4,749
Mar. '08    751    30     16,026
Aug. '08    653    30       3,108
Oct. '08     819    28     10,046
Jan '09      547    31     13,000
May '09     645   25        6,478
Aug. '09    688   30      19,571
Nov. '09     641    27       9,598
Feb. '10     638    27       4,480
May '10      687      9    799,000 (CMV)
July '10      600     21      31,000
Nov '10      682     24     15,000
June '11     563    23     210,000 (blasto)
July  '11      530    22      39,000
Aug '11      677     22      21,000
Sept. '12    747     15      14,000

Offline sam66

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Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #75 on: November 18, 2010, 10:45:00 AM »
I wonder if smoking (tobacco) can actually be immune stimulating in some way. Many of the LTNP or LTSP I have talked to are active smokers. . Anyone else have an idea about smoking and HIV?

    natthai
               I remember reading about this some time ago, I found the link,  apparently smokers have on average higher CD4 count by 140

      From  www.aidsmap.com

       http://www.aidsmap.com/resources/CD4-cell-counts/page/1254931/

   " CD4 cell counts in people without HIV

A normal CD4 cell count in an HIV-negative man is between 400 and 1600 per cubic millimetre of blood (but doctors normally just give a figure, e.g. 500). CD4 cell counts in HIV-negative women tend to be a little higher, between 500 and 1700.

Even if you donít have HIV, many factors can affect your CD4 cell count. For example itís known that:

    * Women have higher CD4 cell counts than men (by about 100).

    * Womenís CD4 cell counts go up and down during the menstrual cycle.

    * Oral contraceptives can lower a womanís CD4 cell count.

    * Smokers tend to have higher CD4 cell counts (by about 140).

    * CD4 cell counts fall after rest Ė by as much as 40%.

    * A good nightís sleep can mean that you have a lower CD4 cell count the following morning, but a higher CD4 cell count the next afternoon.

None of these factors seems to make any difference to how able your immune system is to fight infections.

Only a small portion of your body's CD4 cells are in the blood. The rest are in the lymph nodes and tissue, and the fluctuations noted above might be due to the movement of CD4 cells between blood and tissue."

   sam
december 2007 diagnosed +ve ,

Offline natthai

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Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #76 on: November 18, 2010, 12:13:20 PM »
Thanks for the link Sam. I took a look at it but it didn't mention why smokers test to have on average higher cd4 counts. Have you read any theory on this, is it the nicotine affecting brain chemistry which in turn affects immune responce or perhaps another chemical or is it the body's response to the inhalation of organic combustible material inside the lungs. If it has something to do with nicotine then chewing the gum or wearing the patch might have some therapudic benefit. My quick google result didn't return anything positive about smoking and disease progression so I don't know if anyone has any theories about this. Are there any smokers here that have an opinion on this idea?
Infection date: February 14, 2010 (yeah really)
08/03/2010 - CD4 621 (27%) VL 72,250
25/03/2010 - CD4 981 (28%) VL 122,719 <-started anti-oxidants (ABCDE, Se, ALA, NAC)
11/08/2010 - CD4 1,365 (31%) VL 5,451

Online eric48

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Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #77 on: November 18, 2010, 06:32:09 PM »
Hi,

From recent readings, I kind of getting to that CD4 (helpers to fight diseases) are not a one type fit all category (like red cells)

one has CD4 compartments of specialized, dedicated CD4 cells. Say you have one acute infection, CD4 will rapidly clone themselves to win the war by having more troopers.

If one has a chronic low grade infection that requires CD4s to fight that chronic infection, then a section of CD4s specializes in that infection.

Say you are a country with no sea access (such as Switzerland), then your Navy is relatively small since you even do not have a coast guard corps.

And when you count the number of the military, then they are obviously less...

Countries need an army and policy to be ready to fight potential threats. Countries under permanent threat need bigger armies

One good example is the contingent of some 50.000 US troops stationed in South Korea to 'permanently' protect that border. It makes the US army bigger by 50.000.

But they are used to a specific purpose and can not be reassigned to some other 'attacks'.

So in my views (I admit personal), a smoker with 540 CD4 is NOT having a better immune system than a non smoker with 400 CD4 since the 140 cd4 compartment is specific to fight the chronic tobacco related inflammation and would be of little use for some other attacks.

Which is why, given a certain level of CD4s, one should start looking at CD4/CD8 ratio for example as an indicator of a healthy immune system.

Size DOES matter...

but, unless the numbers are low, numbers may not necessarily matter as much and mean a healthier immune system

numbers (like money) matter to some who do not have enough.

It makes little difference owning 10 million or 100 million (especially when 90 millions are stuck in a long term trust and can not be use to by that lively new 20 million house you are looking at...

Cheers

Eric

Offline natthai

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Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #78 on: November 18, 2010, 09:52:18 PM »
Eric,

That is an excellent and well reasoned reply, I belive you are right on. Thanks for the insight!
Infection date: February 14, 2010 (yeah really)
08/03/2010 - CD4 621 (27%) VL 72,250
25/03/2010 - CD4 981 (28%) VL 122,719 <-started anti-oxidants (ABCDE, Se, ALA, NAC)
11/08/2010 - CD4 1,365 (31%) VL 5,451

Offline sam66

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Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #79 on: November 20, 2010, 06:40:35 AM »
Hi,

From recent readings, I kind of getting to that CD4 (helpers to fight diseases) are not a one type fit all category (like red cells)



Eric



   Hi Eric
              Excellent post , yes
                   I agree, From talking to my doctor, and reading about CD4 and CD4%  , my opinion is; it is not an , one size fits all exact science. I think its very difficult to compare the immune systems of two individuals by comparing their CD4 numbers .

      Someone with a relatively low CD4 count could have much stronger immune system than someone with a much higher CD4 count.

  sam
december 2007 diagnosed +ve ,

Offline OneTampa

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Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #80 on: November 22, 2010, 08:21:32 PM »
Eric,

Excellent reasoned post.
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Offline Hellraiser

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Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #81 on: November 25, 2010, 03:30:04 AM »
I'm still waiting for the >5 option on this poll.

Offline billy

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Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #82 on: November 29, 2010, 01:07:29 PM »
I'm still waiting for the >5 option on this poll.

your wish is my command ;-)
09/07: VL 2.200.000
12/07: Kaletra-Kivexa
01/08: T4 720 VL<50
04/08: T4 1.350 VL<50
09/08: T4 1.465 VL<50
02/09: T4 1.230 VL<50
07/09: T4 1.150 VL<50
12/09: T4 1.110 VL<50
06/10: T4 1.600 VL<50
11/10: T4 1.390 VL<50
05/11: T4 700 VL<50
07/11: T4 1.035 VL<50
02/12: T4 1.010 VL<50
06/12: T4 965 VL<50
11/12: T4 850 VL<50
04/13: T4 1220 VL<50
09/13: T4 1100 VL<50
02/14: T4 1120 VL<50

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Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #83 on: November 29, 2010, 10:35:14 PM »
WOW! :)

Offline wsda

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Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #84 on: August 28, 2012, 09:31:46 AM »
hi billy,

how is ur latest count?? is that good?

When u take the Zell Oxygen, do u feel headache, tiredness, getting weak, vomit or diarrhea symptoms?



Hi guys,

sorry for late reply. By the way, by the end of this week I will get my updated numbers... so let's see what they will be. Actually I don't hope any big changes to previous.

Anyhow, till to date I am 32 yrs old. So regarding your question why my CD4 count is quite high - I have no idea, but I will let you see a bit in my daily life.

Sleeping about 7 hrs
Working about 9 hrs
Sports about 3-5 times per week (gym/tennis) about 1-2 hrs

smoker: yes, 5-8 cigs per day
alcohol: no, just 1-2 drinks per week
drugs: no
sex / stroking:  ::)  ???  8)
HAART: regularly (average miss 1 per month)

My nutrition is quite usual. Sometimes I have 3 dishes per day / sometime 2 and some sweet stuff. It depends. Breakfast always some toast and milk. Evenings some yoguhrt, maybe toast again, eggs, noodles, normal stuff. I don't take any "special" supplements. I just drink my juice, also "Actimel" / "vie" (for the European guys ;-) about every second day. And about every 6 months I do a "cell oxygene immune complex" treatment. It's an immune power "drink". I don't know how to explain, but you can google with "Zell Oxygen Immunkomplex by Dr Wolz". I really don't know is the last thing causes my CD4s...

My Doc was also wondering, especially at my test from June with CD4 1600+. Anyhow, I hope this info is useful... take care guys

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #85 on: August 28, 2012, 09:41:02 AM »
1712 cd4 back in January
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline denb45

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Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #86 on: August 28, 2012, 10:44:02 AM »
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline JessieJames

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Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #87 on: August 28, 2012, 10:58:11 AM »
Highest, over 1,000.  Just after infection. 

Lowest, 24.  It has been a long road, but I have been hovering near 500 for over a year now. 

Offline metekrop

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Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #88 on: August 29, 2012, 08:15:30 AM »
Hi guys,

actually I want to hug everyone around me  :P
Today I got my new results... and I was VERY surprised. My CD4 count is 1.356!
I was hoping to have 800+ but this exceeds my expectations by far.
So what was your highest CD4 count... so that I can have a target for my next test after summer.

Hugs & Kisses
Billy

What brought your number down to 700 on 5/11.
Diag on Dec 8, 2000, CD 440 VL 44K, No Meds
Dec/08 - Feb/09 CD< 50 & VL >500k hosp'z.
St. Atripla - July/09 CD 179, VL 197k
Oct/09 CD 300 VL UD Chol 267
Mar/10 CD 468 UD, Ch 220
Aug/10 CD 460 UD, Ch 195
Dec/10 CD 492 UD, Ch 172
Mar/11 CD 636 UD, Ch 201
Aug/11 CD 530 UD, Ch 98
Jan/12 cd 616 UD, ch 189
Jul/12 CD 640 UD, Ch ?
Dec/12 CD 669 Ud, Ch 125
May/7 CD711 Ud, Ch?
Nov/ 22 663 UD, Ch,

Offline Buckmark

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Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #89 on: August 29, 2012, 10:04:43 AM »
1712 cd4 back in January

I wonder why you need so many of them?   Didn't you recently just have a cold or bronchitis or a sinus infection?  You better tell all of those CD4 cells to get to work!

"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things:
     One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell.
     The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love."
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Offline Jeff G

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Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #90 on: August 29, 2012, 10:31:29 AM »
I wonder why you need so many of them?   Didn't you recently just have a cold or bronchitis or a sinus infection?  You better tell all of those CD4 cells to get to work!

Miss P has so many Cd4 cells we may need to crochet a Cd4 cell cozy holder for all the extra ones , ain't nothin worse than dusty cd4 cells .     

Offline Ann

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Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #91 on: August 29, 2012, 11:03:03 AM »
Miss P has so many Cd4 cells we may need to crochet a Cd4 cell cozy holder for all the extra ones , ain't nothin worse than dusty cd4 cells .     

I thought Miss P had someone come in once a week for a light dusting?
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #92 on: August 29, 2012, 12:08:50 PM »
I wonder why you need so many of them?   Didn't you recently just have a cold or bronchitis or a sinus infection?  You better tell all of those CD4 cells to get to work!



I'll know in a month how well they recovered, so at that point you can eat your words. I also had two major infections post-surgery to boot.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #93 on: August 30, 2012, 06:07:24 PM »
1712 cd4 back in January

*** REVISED *** found my last results from May 16th and I had 1785 cd4 (highest they've ever been in 19 years, and actually that exceeds the lab's reference range) / 52.5% VL <20 copies/mL

However my Vitamin D was 0.2 below normal range

THANK YOU VERY MUCH!

« Last Edit: August 30, 2012, 06:09:49 PM by Miss Philicia »
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Online eric48

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Re: my CD4 skyrockets!!!
« Reply #94 on: July 19, 2013, 04:24:45 PM »
July 16 blood drawn on a late hot afternoon...
CD4: 1400  CD4 % : 51
CD8 : 577  CD8 % : 21
CD4/CD8 ratio: 2.43

I'am usually on an average of 700...

That me be an outlier, but it makes me feels good

Cheers
Eric

 


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