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Author Topic: Window Worries  (Read 6174 times)

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Offline NYER29

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Window Worries
« on: July 19, 2006, 01:49:19 PM »
Hello All...

My risk was a broken condom with an escort and possibly 20-30 seconds of my head being exposed  to her cervico-vaginal fluid...Anyway I have tested negative at 4,6,8,9,10, 12 (86 days) weeks negative mostly through Home Access , and 2 through Quest, 1 of these was a PCR DNA Qualitative and the other was a standard EIA test..

Everyone I have spoken to says 12-13 weeks followed up a 6 mos.  My questions are is it possible for the virus to hang out dormant in the Brain and Spinal Cord and other organs without being detected for an extended period of time either antigens (DNA) or antibodies (exceeding 3 months)?  If someone had undiagnosed Lupus,MS, or cancer would this push the winodw period later?   If infected female secrections touch the opening of the urethra and some gets in does it mean infection will occur or does it require a significant quantity of virus deep inside the urethra?  Does the amount of infectious fluid affect the window period?

  I have spoken to both my GP and attemtped to seek counselling with a psychiatrist GP thinks I am being neurotic but should retest for safe measure...  Psych said I should definately keep testing beyond 6 mos, so much for easing my anxiety...  I do have some physical symptoms in the form of a coated tongue, occaisonal diarrhea, abdominal pain, and dizziness does this mean I should keep testing?   My significiant other is aware of me straying but we recently have resumed unprotected sex at times without ejaculation and always wear condoms for BC..  My deepest fear is that I could infect her, which drives me crazy I can live with the consequences of my own actions but cannot live with the idea of possibly ruining someone else's life...Should I possibly have an PCR RNA Viral Load test done to completly rule out the possibility of infection?

Your comments regarding my situation are very much appreciated...

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Window Worries
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2006, 02:21:53 PM »
You have tested enough. The CDC is very conservative in this matter and accepts 13 weeks as a reliable testing point except for those who are IV drug users or have a severely damaged immune system due to treatment for cancer or a like situation.

Neither of those would seem to apply to you. I don't care who's telling you to test beyond 13 weeks. Their information is outdated. Period.

That's total cocky doody about HIV hiding out anywhere. Even someone who is poz and has an undetectable viral load will still test positive. So forget about that nonsense you're being fed.

You are HIV negative. Period. End of story.

Be glad and get on with your life. No kidding.

Cheers,
Andy Velez

Offline NYER29

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  • Posts: 17
Re: Window Worries
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2006, 03:50:06 PM »
Thanks for the reply Andy your knowledge is comforting...


Scientifically speaking is it possible to be negative antibody, negative DNA PCR and have a positive viral load test? I was considering the RNA PCR test but it is expensive and the threat of a false positive is keeping me away, and if I continue to test who knows if I will be happy with the result..

I know HIV-2 is endemic in West Africa but is it worth specifically testing for here?  Home Access states thier test is very reliable in picking up type 2 with almost 80% accuracy... 

Final question is if someone who was coinfected with 2 strains of virus would that have any impact on testing time if they infected another person with dual strains?

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Window Worries
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2006, 06:01:41 PM »
HEY! You have reliably tested negative for HIV. You are HIV negative. Period. End of story.

Current HIV tests cover both HIV 1 & 2. HIV2 cases are very, very rare in the U.S., and there's no reason to think that's an issue for you anyway.

Give it up about cross strains and more tests. You don't need them. No kidding.

Just make sure you use a condom everytime in the future when you have intercourse, whether it's with a professional or a civilian and you will be fine as far as HIV is concerned.

Cheers,
Andy Velez

Offline NYER29

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Re: Window Worries
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2006, 06:07:53 PM »
Thanks again Andy I am trying to keep the anxiety in check but it's tough...





Offline Ronnie99

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  • Posts: 39
Re: Window Worries
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2006, 11:39:13 PM »
I know where you are coming from. When you have real symptoms it is tough to put the fear to rest. Best of luck to you.

Offline canadiandude

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Re: Window Worries
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2006, 01:00:53 AM »
What difference does it make if someones an iv drug user??

Offline Ann

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  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Window Worries
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2006, 07:03:58 AM »
Canadadude,

We need you to keep all your additional thoughts or questions in  your own thread. Asking questions in another person's thread is considered thread hijacking and we do not encourage that practice in this forum.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline NYER29

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Re: Window Worries
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2006, 02:16:40 PM »
Every time I start to talk myself out of being infected and testing negative out to 12 weeks something else crops up to scare me. Now my gf is complaining of dizziness as well and I am freakiing out thinking that I have infected her with precum and we have some sort of odd strain that causes delayed seroconversion or cannot be picked up by current tests..WTF?  I want to let this go I really do...


All my blood work from my Doctor came back CBC normal, Hep B and C negative, etc.   Is delayed seroconversion possible in a healthy person with normal blood counts?  Are all strains of virus picked up on current Elisa tests?





 

Offline NYER29

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  • Posts: 17
Re: Window Worries
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2006, 03:19:11 PM »
Just wondering if the folks in the know on this board tell people to test out to 13 weeks do so under the assumption that the other unknown partners' status is positive or unknown?


Furthermore, if this is the case then why does Dr. Bob tell people if they have known contact with someone who is POZ to do a 3 month and a 6 month test?   Recently, I have read on his forum in which a guy's girlfirend just tested positive and he told him to continue to test out to 6 months for absoulte certainty and this guy wasn't on PEP either..  Not trying to stir anything here as this website and Dr Bob at the body have been very helpful and I think think both sites are excellent...


Can anyone shed some light on this?  The CDC hotline insists that an antibody test is 97% definitive a 3 months contradicting what they have stated on their website, no surprise there..  Is this all CYA or what?

Offline Ann

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  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Window Worries
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2006, 05:36:46 PM »
NY,

ALL the risk assesments and testing advice on this forum are given with the assumption that your partner IS hiv positive.

I don't know why Dr Bob gives out-dated advice. Why don't you ask him?

You are reliably hiv negative. It is time to move on with your life.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline NYER29

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  • Posts: 17
Re: Window Worries
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2006, 08:47:18 PM »
Thanks for the reply Ann...


Seems like Docs out there constantly contradict something they have said previously including Dr. HHH who seems to be very knowledgeable and well respected also.  Anyway I just don't get it 99 % of the time Dr. Bob says 3 months is definitive and conclusive in one breath but then says up to 6 months for contact with a known POZ or in the case of receptive anal intercourse with a POZ individual...  WTF?  If it's 3 months it's 3 months what is the difference? Are they really playing the CYA game or is there more to it than that? 

Offline Ronnie99

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Re: Window Worries
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2006, 09:07:00 PM »
Most doctors are very cautious giving out this sort of advice. Think about it for a second. They are telling someone essentially that everything is fine, you have my blessing with the window, etc.. What if the person asking is the 1% who tests positive after 3 months (that is 1 in 100 after all)? How would you feel as a doctor if that person took your advice and then infected another? Doctors are often very conservative about such matters. That is what my ID doctor told me and it makes sense.

Offline NYER29

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  • Posts: 17
Re: Window Worries
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2006, 10:00:06 PM »
Ronnie,

My doc said go on about your life resume unprotected sex with my GF but come back in 3 months for a definitive test??  Anyway seems like CYA BS to me but then again every time I turn around I still have dizziness, occasional diarrhea and, coated tongue.... Is there a real concern?  I think so...  There must be more than a handful of cases of delayed seroconversion if docs are saying test again at the 6 month mark?

Dr. Bob told me to go on about my life too but I can't help but think everyone is playing the numbers game here and every where else  relatively low risk with insertive vaginal sex and briefly being exposed 20-30 seconds of a broken condom, etc. etc blah, blah, it can't happen... It is interesting  because the website Ann has linked in a couple of posts INSITE or whatever it is called says 6 mos for a definitive test and knowaids.org who has a banner on this site says 6 months..  WTF?  I'll bet that most people on reputable internet sites such as this one would be willing to deny delayed seroconversion under normal circumstances like if I came back positive at a later time saying I was lying or there is only anecdotal evidence...

I feel that I have asked some questions based in science on here but I get the you have tested negative move on....  Is this website or any other going to say well 13 weeks is definitively negative if you do end up testing POZ later than normal and infecting others down the line without any other exposures, no way!  They are gonna say the CDC recommends 3 months followed by 6 months in RARE cases... 

Not trying to go out of my way to be an ass but seems like everyone is saying something different and that in itself is enough to drive someone insane... I guess the bottom line is keep testing if it makes you feel more comfortable....

Offline Ronnie99

  • Member
  • Posts: 39
Re: Window Worries
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2006, 10:08:56 PM »
From whatI read the 3 months is VERY reliable or we would hear a lot more about it not being. The one doctor on another site Dr. HHH relies on 6 weeks as definitive.... My take on it is that the old standard was 6 months and a lot of doctors can't feel comfortable without being very cautious. As an aside, the current CDC documents I find say the testing window is 3 to 6 months so they have not entirely given up the 6 month mark either... If a person is an optimist the CDC's 3 to 6 month testing window means 3 months definitive. If the person is a pessimist, they interpret to be 6 months. I know how you feel. Best of luck to you...

Finally, keep in mind that many of the docs especially on Dr. Bob's website combine the chance of infection with the testing when they give advice. They are esseitially using statistics when answering posts. They are looking at the numbers. If the chance of being infected is extremely small based on the encounter and the person has tested out to 13 weeks (testing that is extremely likely to be accurate) then they are saying your chances of being infected are extremely small statistically. If, on the other hand a person had a very high risk encounter and had symptoms the doctor is likely to say test out further because if you do the statidtics, there is a greater (although still small) chance the person is infected statistically. They are answering based on statistical probability.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2006, 10:17:35 PM by Ronnie99 »

Offline NYER29

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  • Posts: 17
Re: Window Worries
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2006, 10:20:38 PM »
The long short of it is I don't think anyone would stand by that 12-13 week rule if someone tested neg at 12 but then POZ at 18-24 weeks.. They would say NO WAY you had  to have some sort of other exposure since then or you were the one in a million...However, that could be applied to almost any scenario even outside of the HIV worried world, no guarantees with anything in this life.. 

Anyway I think everyone here that struggles with this virus that donates their time to worried freaks like myself are incredible and that if I were ever infected I hope I would half the courage and stamina you folks have that keep this board going...




Offline Ronnie99

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Re: Window Worries
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2006, 10:22:51 PM »
Agreed on that. The service they give here is great. Best of luck to you!

Offline NYER29

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  • Posts: 17
Re: Window Worries
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2006, 12:14:31 PM »
I just tested negative at around the 16 week mark via home access should I continue testing out to 6 months due to contiuing coated tongue and gastro-intestinal issues?

Anyone have any thoughts?


Offline Morgan

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  • Posts: 382
  • You did WHAT??
Re: Window Worries
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2006, 12:48:46 PM »
Nyer29,

No further testing is necessary.  You are hiv negative.

Morgan
Morgan Landers

Offline NYER29

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Re: Window Worries
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2006, 04:21:04 PM »
Morgan,


Thanks for the reply...

Will try to keep things in perspective but it is difficult...



Offline NYER29

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  • Posts: 17
Re: Window Worries
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2006, 06:21:28 PM »
http://www.retroconference.org:8888/2006/PDFs/389.pdf

How do you folks explain this piece of first-tier pier reviewed science?

Shows a man that seroconverted in 2003 after nearly a year and after being on HAART finally tested POZ on the antibody test?   

This pretty much refutes what Andy stated above about someone haveng an undetectable viral load will still test positive?  I guess the virus can hide out in the body and evade detection for quite some time as seen in the link above..

Offline NYER29

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Re: Window Worries
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2006, 07:33:02 PM »
Nobody wants to take a stab at what I found?

I am surprised Jonathan, Andy, MTD, Ann, Rapid have no comments on this one....

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Window Worries
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2006, 08:19:47 PM »
Well, what's to say? This case bears no relevance to your case and in no way "cancels out" the advice that Andy gave you.

MtD

Offline NYER29

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Re: Window Worries
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2006, 08:24:22 PM »
Do you think I should have viral load test done to completely rule out the possibilty of infection considering I am having weird symptoms?

Offline scaredguyto

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Re: Window Worries
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2006, 08:33:12 PM »
I am no expert in HIV, but I am an expert in statistics. There are ALWAYS outliers, but THEY CANNOT BE AN EXAMPLE. You will always find samples which is not usual, but experts cannot give advice depending on those cases, rather it makes sense (and is wise) to provide advice depending on what we learn from the larger sample and the usual cases.

If you look for outliers you will find them in everything. You will find billionaire in Congo, but that does not mean Congo is a rich country, or no economist will tell you congo is rich...will they?

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Window Worries
« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2006, 08:50:29 PM »
Do you think I should have viral load test done to completely rule out the possibilty of infection considering I am having weird symptoms?

Absolutely not. Viral load tests are not diagnostic tools, they are used to monitor the health and treatment progress of HIV positive people. They are expensive and have a tendency to produce false positive results in negative people.

Such as you. You're freaking out now over nothing, can you imagine what a false positive would do to you?

What I think you should do is read the answers you've already been given and read the Welcome Thread. You have been told umpteen times that you are HIV negative. You have been told that you don't need to test. You should, by now, know that symptoms mean nothing when it comes to HIV diagnosis.

Similarly, don't go scanning the internet for "evidence" such as you did above. Rather you might want to spend some time talking to a mental health worker about your fears regarding HIV.

I suspect your needs exceed what this forum can provide.

MtD

Offline NYER29

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Re: Window Worries
« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2006, 08:35:09 AM »
Thanks Matty and scared I appreciate the advice and I think I will take it...

I am booked for my first session of CBT tonight so hopfully this will help me overcome my fears...

 


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