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Author Topic: I don't want to take meds...  (Read 2476 times)

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Offline traveltramp

  • Member
  • Posts: 39
I don't want to take meds...
« on: March 29, 2008, 12:13:14 PM »
I don't want to take meds, for many reasons, and I may change my mind as for now I don't need them, but there will be a time when that choice must me made.

I suppose most people I tell this to don't understand why, and I suppose sometimes I don't either.  I can't say it is a death wish, more of self punishment or acceptance of what has happend and this is my fate.  Whatever, it changes like the weather. 

Guilt mostly because (I am sure) but it is not a fact.. I believe I infected someone else, this is before I tested positive, but it was during a time that going back in my mind I was positive.  The shame in it is that I knew better and yet I did it anyway.  I am selfish and there is nothing I can do about it except punish myself or forgive myself and often I do both.  I suppose, that because I have made up in my mind that I wont take meds is because this guy will not (not a fact, but it makes sense as he is in a poor country and he is young and I feel like hell because I changed the outcome of his life and I have no way of contacting him and I could not find him if I had to) and I have to pay some kind of penance for my horrible actions.  In a sense I have become numb to most people and myself and have very little emotion other than anger, but at least I am feeling something.  I also refuse to believe that I have to pay some blood sucking company money to keep me alive.  I am rather an anti Establishment, anarchist and I hate big business and government and this is more a fundmental notion and was with me before I was positive.  I suppose I am tree hugger, backpacker and wash my cloths in a river kind of guy.

I can't say I want to die, and I can't say that I am depressed, but I don't see the point in not letting nature take its course.....  So, what do others think...

It is a personal choice I know and I wonder if there are others that refuse to take meds for principle rather than availability due to ... money, location, etc.

5/7 SEROCOVERSION
7/7 CD4 669
9/7 CD4 1079 V/L 1200
2/8 CD4 803   V/L 3050
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9/8 CD4 959   V/L 2418
1/9 CD4 909   V/L 550

Offline thunter34

  • Member
  • Posts: 7,318
  • His name is Carl.
Re: I don't want to take meds...
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2008, 12:31:54 PM »
I say there is much more going on here than simply your personal response to HIV infection.  Your post is loaded to the hilt with terms and phrases like "guilt", "shame", "selfish", "numb to most people and myself", "little emotion", "self punishment", "anger", "don't see the point", etc.

Perhaps you "can't say (you) are depressed", but I can.  You clearly, clearly need to get yourself into some therapy and start talking this out.  There are deep seated self esteem issues here that I feel nearly certain existed well before HIV infection.

One claim I will directly counter is this one:

Quote
I suppose, that because I have made up in my mind that I wont take meds is because this guy will not (not a fact, but it makes sense as he is in a poor country and he is young and I feel like hell because I changed the outcome of his life and I have no way of contacting him and I could not find him if I had to) and I have to pay some kind of penance for my horrible actions.

Bullshit.  You wanna pay some sort of penance?  Fine.  Do something to atone for this "awful act" you feel you've committed, but just sitting there and letting nature take you out ain't it, doll.  That's effectively doing NOTHING.  That's adding insult to injury and truly ensuring that no good comes of the situation. 
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline 27years

  • Member
  • Posts: 145
  • What I did for love I will still do it for love
Re: I don't want to take meds...
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2008, 12:59:53 PM »
Sometimes nature doesnt take its course the way you want or the way you expect.  I think at the moment you are dealing with so many emotions rather than the issue of meds on its own.  Unless you get your other grievancies addressed, it will be difficult for you to move on whether on meds on not.  Try not to hang on to the past and try to leave yourlife as yourself.  Whatever happened there should be ways of going round things without even punishing yourself.  How do you know that the person you are claiming to have infected was actually infected by you.  Be at peace with yourself then you will find it easy to cope with the issue of meds.  The good thing is no one will force you to take the meds its your choice, and if its your wish it will be respected but you wont be doing yourself any favours. If possible get some professional help on your guilty feelings it might help. 
Nobody dies a virgin life screws us all up

Offline Buckmark

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  • Would you like to tie me up with your ties, Ty?
    • Henry's Home Page
Re: I don't want to take meds...
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2008, 01:08:11 PM »
Not sure where to start my reply, as I can certainly see you are struggling with several things here.  First, are you saying you've knowingly infected someone else?  If so, then you should feel guilty.  But I don't exactly see how your refraining from meds is any sort of penance.  Instead, I suggest thinking about what you can do to help the person you infected (not that there is any way you could make this up to them).   Is there really no way you could ever contact this person again?  (And if so, how do you know they are positive?)  If this person is really unreachable, why not the think about something you can do to help others with HIV, or prevent others from contracting HIV?  In tree-hugger speak, think about what you can do to improve the overall forest, since you cannot locate the one tree you would like to save.

I can understand being anti-establishment.  But perhaps in practical terms you can think of it this way:  if you want to continue to be here to be anti-government, anti-big business, etc., then you may one day have to consider taking meds.  I don't see anything wrong with this.  You can think of it as using the system to beat the system -- which in many ways is even sweeter and more satisfying.  Clearly you're not totally "off the grid", as evidenced by your posting here, so you are clearly comfortable with consuming some business's products and services.  Personally, I'm more comfortable consuming my HIV meds from Big Pharma, than I am trotting down to the health food store and buying the latest organic, shade-grown, free-trade, gluten-free orange juice in a biodegradable, made-from-recycled container (ok, that's my personal rant).

You don't say how long you have known you are positive.  If it is only a short time, then you need to give yourself some more time to think about your approach to meds.  If / when you are close to needing them, you may find yourself coming to a very different conclusion.  Lastly, while you say you are not depressed, to me you really do sound depressed.  Talking this over with a trusted friend or family member, or even a therapist, might help you sort this all out.

Overall, I think you need to find out a way to stand up and take responsibility for your actions, which it sounds like you are trying to do.  But "not taking meds" isn't really doing much of anything, except maybe taking the easy way out.  Time to step it up a notch.

Best Regards,

Henry
"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things:
     One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell.
     The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love."
- Butch Hancock, Musician, The Flatlanders

Offline RapidRod

  • Member
  • Posts: 15,288
Re: I don't want to take meds...
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2008, 01:30:55 PM »
I wonder why you came to AidsMeds if you had your mind made up to not do anything and let "nature" take it course. It doesn't really make to much sense. It might help for you to speak to an HIV counselor or a clinical specialist about your thoughts

Offline thandi

  • Member
  • Posts: 17
Re: I don't want to take meds...
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2008, 02:25:23 PM »
It is clear once you have sex without a condom you run the risk of being infected, I also think the person you supposedly infected should have known better I do not see it being your responsibility to the extent of punishing yourself. What if it is the other way round, that is if he is the one who infected you not unless you knowingly slept with him without protection while you knew you were infected. I also dont see the point of not wanting to take the meds a number of people take medication for all sorts of illnesses not only hiv its a fact of life. I also agree I think you need therapy in order to  be able to process your diagnosis.

Take care

Offline bear60

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,104
Re: I don't want to take meds...
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2008, 02:26:50 PM »
We all have our ups and downs.....looks like you do too.
Here is one post of yours when you were feeling good:
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=15034.msg189500#msg189500

One of my favorite quotes is:  "Tomorrow is another day."  Who knows how you'll feel tomorrow.

edited for spelling
« Last Edit: March 29, 2008, 03:35:52 PM by bear60 »
Poz Bear Type in Philadelphia

Offline mjmel

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,069
Re: I don't want to take meds...
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2008, 03:14:47 PM »
tramp writes, "I suppose I am tree hugger, backpacker and wash my cloths in a river kind of guy."

What's to keep you from being who you are and from doing what you want to do?
If you don't take charge of your life as HIV+ then somewhere down the line it will make you sick. Then it'll dawn on you that you could have been doing things you most enjoy for decades to come--dispite being HIV+. I respectfully suggest you cut the drama and get yourself right with who you really are and not this very 'self-flogging' attitude you have adopted. You certainly are not the first person in this forum to have regretted his/her actions either before or after seroconvertion.

Join us here on the forum. It's a great site and def supportive people.

Mike

Offline Dragonette

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  • Posts: 1,190
  • Spring symptoms
    • NotPerfectAtAll
Re: I don't want to take meds...
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2008, 03:54:01 PM »
From one former travel tramp (who is still longing for that life) to another... get over it - and I really mean it in the nicest possible way.

When you fly to exotic destinations you support a corporation, as when you buy a condom to preserve yourself and others, and when you got your vaccinations they were made by the same corporations as those making AIDS meds, I think you get my drift so I will stop here. This is the structure of the world, and we are living in the world. Now you are positive and you need to adjust, continue living, experiencing, helping others and yourself. Whay identify as "anti" when you can identify as "pro"? there're so many things is this world worth being pro for...But first of all like other have suggested get working on the depression b/c your view of the world seems skewed, painful, that also comes with the constant loneliness of being on the road for so long, seeing others in their communities and families, however poor, where they belong.

Didn't you write a while back that the best could come of what seems like the worst outcome? Don't you want to see what's around the corner, other than AIDS and death? Please give yourself a chance, you are only a falliable human being like the rest of humanity & are worth this chance to continue living. You do eat don't you? Those meds are another need of your body now, or will be in the future.
"If you keep one foot in yesterday, and one in tomorrow, you piss all over today". Betty Tacy

Offline J.R.E.

  • Member
  • Posts: 7,260
  • Joined Dec-2003 Living positive, since 1985.
Re: I don't want to take meds...
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2008, 04:19:05 PM »
Hi,

I certainly didn't want to start on medications, and because of that, I got myself into some pretty serious trouble. When I look back at it , I realise how foolish, and how much in denial I was back then. Believe me, when the OI's started, I couldn't get on the meds fast enough. Ultimately it's your choice. But I am still enjoying life everyday, and plan on continuing that way, for as long as I can. I want to stick around, as long as possible.


Ray 
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 25 mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


Diagnosed positive in 1985,.. In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started on  HAART on October 24th, 2003.

 As of 8/25/14,  t-cells are at 402, Viral load <40

 Current % is at 11%

  
 62 years young.

Offline germangirl

  • Member
  • Posts: 67
Re: I don't want to take meds...
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2008, 04:55:13 PM »
Not to take the meds cause the other guy can't take them either is needless. You won't help him by avoiding taking meds only because he probably won't get them cause he lives in a poor country.

In your post from Aug.2007 (that one bear refers to) you said you have motivation to live, so do it.

Unfortunately there is no justice in life, many people die cause they live in a poor county but dying too doesn't make it better.

If I was you I would try everything to contact this guy and find out if I could help him.

As he didn't want to use a condom he is guilty too. Maybe he has had HIV so there was no sense for using condoms in his opinion. Or maybe you didn't infect him. You don't know so don't lose your life for things you are not sure about.

How can you know that you have had HIV when you had sex with him if you only know it for a few months now?
Eres el aire que respiro,
Eres el compania de mi soledad,
Eres el luz que me ilumina,
Eres el camino en la oseuidad.
Dedicated to my husband

My husband is positive, I am negative.

Offline TreDai

  • Member
  • Posts: 52
  • Miss Ohio Plus America 2008
    • my website
Re: I don't want to take meds...
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2008, 06:06:22 PM »
Sweetie, YOU NEED HELP!! You really should seek help i dealing with your diagnosis and your fears and you should reach out to the other person and help them. If they are even infected. Not taking meds it is not penitence and it isn't a form of purgatory. in 2007 you said you wanted to Live.. Now you sound depressed. Please talk to someone sweetie.
"Our people die because of a lack of knowledge"
 Miss Ohio Plus America 2008

Offline BT65

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 10,056
Re: I don't want to take meds...
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2008, 07:49:01 PM »
Traveltramp, I must say I 100% agree with Timmy about getting into some therapy.  I understand 'not wanting to pay the damned government or big corporations' for your well-being, but there comes a time when we have to take responsibility for ourselves.  And do what it takes to achieve that. 

I didn't want to take meds either.  It's still not something I enjoy; but I enjoy life more than the process of dying.  Believe me, when your immune system goes down, and you're in the only one in your dwelling and suffering alone, regret will set in.  The meds today are so much better than those of the early 90's when I started taking them.  They're a walk in the park compared to those former days. 

And 'letting nature take its course' means just that-its course, not the way you might picture it.  The OIs are horrific, extremely painful, and emaciating.  If you don't get some help soon, believe me, you will only feel worse, emotionally as well as physically.  Please take care of this situation and yourself.
   Luv,
Betty
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline Oceanbeach

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,565
Re: I don't want to take meds...
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2008, 10:29:37 PM »
Hey Tramp,

I never get to call anyone a tramp and get away with it  ;D ;D ;D  I have been living with HIV since Christmas 1994 and AIDS June 1996.  There has been many times in the last 12 years that my life was less than acceptable because I was taking 36 pills every day and still felt like death warmed over.  It had been commented on by friends that taking pills really depresses me.

Having attended many seminars in Los Angeles based on the concept of "what's in the future of HIV?"  Those 36 pills were about to be released and made some changes in the quality of my life.  Damn, they were the most vial tasting things but I believe they made a difference since, I have maintained an undetectable VL since 1998.

For the past few years, all I take now is 1 Trizivir in the morning, 1 at night.  There is also 1 Sustiva at night.  Since I am rapidly approaching "senior citizen" status, my ID doc is also looking at possible future heart, blood pressure and cholesterol, I am being treated to reach old age.  My ID doc would expect me to die of a heart attack at 85 years old.  Considering all the bad times and humiliations, it seems (right now) that life can be better and all I have to do is take 3 pills every day.

We are all different so the same outcome can not be expected for everyone.  I have also attended a couple of seminars by our best local ID docs on the topic of "drug vacations" and have been surprised that two brilliant and dedicated HIV Specialists, working in the same organization have opposite opinions.  Our Acting Medical Director of the Center for HIV Prevention and Care regularly supervised med vacations because, she claimed the worst possible outcome would be for the patients T-cells to drop to its previous level and that same patient VL would increase back to it's original high reading.  Meanwhile my doctor, refuses to allow me a break on the meds.

It is an important decision to make and hopefully, you have a lot of options so you can figure where you are and where you want to be.  Have the best day
Michael

Offline MitchMiller

  • Member
  • Posts: 482
Re: I don't want to take meds...
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2008, 04:50:21 AM »
You say...and I have to pay some kind of penance for my horrible actions.

Therefore, take the meds, keep living and working, and donate as much $$$ as you can afford to AIDS organizations in the country where your poor victim lives.  Perhaps some of your altruism will find its way back to him.

Death is not penance, but rather an escape from it.

Offline BT65

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Re: I don't want to take meds...
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2008, 05:45:41 PM »
donate as much $$$ as you can afford to AIDS organizations in the country where your poor victim lives. 

Mitch, if Mitch did give HIV to someone else, the other person was responsible for not protecting himself.  Save rape, I don't believe in the 'victim' role.
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

 


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