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Author Topic: Green Tea Extract Protects Brain from Dementia?  (Read 6534 times)

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Offline Magnus

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Green Tea Extract Protects Brain from Dementia?
« on: March 08, 2008, 08:31:20 AM »
Here is an article to suggest that the EGCG protects the brain from HIV related damage: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/05/070501115222.htm
It may help complimend HAART that does not penetrate the Brain.

Has anyone seen any other studies showing the benefits or otherwise of Green Tea on HIV sufferers?

Offline BT65

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Re: Green Tea Extract Protects Brain from Dementia?
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2008, 08:31:30 AM »
I wouldn't buy into anything when there's no hard scientific proof.  You do seem to be a little overly-concerned about HIV/brain trouble. 
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline Smoothstone

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Re: Green Tea Extract Protects Brain from Dementia?
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2008, 01:16:25 AM »
Thanks for the article and your "overly" concern. You are not alone in your concern about dementia. I've experienced dementia and welcome info about possibilities to prevent,forestall, and mitigate it. Ziagen halted my noticeable dementia back in 1996.

Appreciating contributors who share information. Hank

Offline Magnus

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Re: Green Tea Extract Protects Brain from Dementia?
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2008, 11:36:27 PM »
Your welcome stone :) Glad to hear you stopped the dementia 12 years ago.   Ill definitely post any more useful info i come across.

Offline risred1

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Re: Green Tea Extract Protects Brain from Dementia?
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2008, 03:09:46 PM »
I am taking a Green Tea Extract supplement. My personal results as far as CD4 improvement was significant. (20%). VL did also increase.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigallocatechin_gallate#_note-4

http://www.pacificcollege.edu/publications/articles/2006/december/12-03-2006_green_tea.htm

To be honest, I took a shot in the dark as my CD4 was hovering near 350. So, i took a chance with a ECGC supplement to see if anything good would happen. My boost is just only something i can personally talk about. It is obviously not a study.

While some would say, do not until something substantial scientifically is observed, which I have no argument with, I choose to give it a try because Green Tea was shown to me as  reasonably safe in high does via extracts via Japanese studies that were looking at high does GT in cancer patients. I spoke to my doc and he did not have a problem with the safety of GT supplement.

My conclusion was, since I was close to med decision, maybe this would help push it off a bit, so I decided to try it. I will also note that i essentially take a KPAX formula I cobbled together that features: Alpha Lipoic Acid, Acetyl L Carnintine, NAC, Selenium in a chelated multivitamin, MSM, Gingseng, 7 Keto DHEA, extra supplementation of Vitamin D to 1200 units per day during the Winter - and to get the ever famous DHA, I eat walnuts with my daily oatmeal.

:)
risred1 - hiv +
02/07 CD4 404 - 27% - VL 15k
10/07 CD4 484 - 31% - VL 45k
05/08 CD4 414 - 26% - VL 70k
01/09 CD4 365 - 23% - VL 65k
05/09 CD4 291 - 23% - VL 115k - Started Meds - Reyataz/Truvada
06/09 CD4 394 - ?% - VL 1200 - Boosted Reyataz with Norvir and Truvada
07/09 CD4 441 - ?% - VL 118 - Boosted Reyataz with Norvir and Truvada
09/09 CD4 375 - ?% - VL Undetectable - Boosted Reyataz with Norvir and Truvada
12/09 CD4 595 - ?% - VL Undetectable - VIT D 34 - Reyataz/Truvada/Norvir

Offline Magnus

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Re: Green Tea Extract Protects Brain from Dementia?
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2008, 04:02:10 PM »
That's a significant boost risred- can you put it down to the ECGC or do you think its a combination of all your other supplements?

How much ECGC do you take daily? I'm drinking lots of Green Tea but apparently its not enough.

I'm also a firm believer in the benefit of supplements. Here is an interesting summary from a website by Irish Doctors: http://www.pozireland.org/vitamins.htm

I might copy your formula :) you haven't patented it yet have you?? ;)

Offline risred1

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Re: Green Tea Extract Protects Brain from Dementia?
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2008, 02:07:11 PM »
My formula isn't worthy of a patent, but based upon KPAX and the somewhat controversial DR. Jon Kaiser who has been called everything from a saint to a shill.

The varients that I add for my own purposes of maintaing a higher energy level are:

MSM, and Time release Korean Ginseng. I'm getting older to, so I add the 7 keto dhea which is really a steriod or hormone supplement. This is also controverisal. Playing around with your hormones is something that is risky, and this is certainly not for anyone who doesn't understand what 7 keto DHEA is about. In my mind, you have to be over 40 to be looking at this. The Vitamin D is based upon emerging research that show a trend toward deficiencies in the winter months. Since I don't get Sun in the Winter, I supplement to 1200 IU. When I get back outside on my bike, I will probably suspend the extra supplementation and rely just on my Multivitamin.

I get most of my supplements from a buyers club called Newyorkbuyersclub.org. Because i frequently mention this group as a source for my supplementation, I am considered a shill and not to be trusted. So be it. They have been helpful to me, provide excellent information, and are a Non-Profit Organization, and sell at a Non-Profit Price.

They have sourced an excellent quality multivitamin formula designed for folked with HIV called AMNI - Advanced Protection with or without IRON. It has selenium, is chelated and a full blend of B vits with minerals.

The supplements I don't get from NYBC I get from Bronson Pharmaceuticals.

I really encourage you not to copy my formula, but to make decision regarding each supplement you would consider taking. There are those who strongly advocate against unproven supplements. And I concede that they make a good point.

For my personal view on supplements, being a middle aged man, who was in poor condition and whose HIV was advancing to where meds were looming. (My doc in fact kept telling me that at our next appointment probably i would have to go on meds, He said that for two years and now he's not saying for now.) I was willing to essentially look at some of these substances as identified by Dr. Jon Kaiser.

Kaiser is unconventional. My University Hospital Specialist calls the type of care he and others provide as Boutique care. Call it what you will, because he draws his own conclusions from his own base of experience, some will also call him a quack. But others who use Kaisers Services which are now many clinics on the West Coast of the US, they provide excellent care. They use meds when it is time, and they spend considerable effort attempt to delay the need for meds via nutrients and therapies. This is largely different than my specialists practice, who believes in balanced diet and exercise and then the application of meds at to the agree to point. My doc called me the "king of supplements" as no one else in his practice gets close to the ones I'm taking. He has a full record of all the things i take and we have discussed this. He does not recommend them as there is no significant source of studies that he feels are targeted specifically for  "treating" HIV. But he also said that whatever I'm doing, keep it up. We are both enjoying the improvement in my last blood test and me raising above his expectations regarding when I should go on meds.

Naturally, this can all change with a single blood test. Thats the nature of what I'm doing and the nature of HIV.

As far as the green tea supplement I am taking,
https://www.Immunesupport.com/shop/product.cfm/product__code/PH302/loc/SFPCP

or the equivalent to 20 cups of green tea a day. it is decaffeinated! (1 cap in the morning and 1 in the evening). NYBC has a green tea extract as well, but at the time I was looking, they didn't, so I went with this.

I also forgot to mention that i take Glutamine as well, 5 grams a day to help my digestive system.

Ok, so what caused the improvement in my CD4. 20% is significant. And My doc was surprised.

I don't know what is the cause of this improvement. Is it the formula, or specific elements? I don't know. But only after I added Green Tea to my formula did i see the increase in cd4.


risred1 - hiv +
02/07 CD4 404 - 27% - VL 15k
10/07 CD4 484 - 31% - VL 45k
05/08 CD4 414 - 26% - VL 70k
01/09 CD4 365 - 23% - VL 65k
05/09 CD4 291 - 23% - VL 115k - Started Meds - Reyataz/Truvada
06/09 CD4 394 - ?% - VL 1200 - Boosted Reyataz with Norvir and Truvada
07/09 CD4 441 - ?% - VL 118 - Boosted Reyataz with Norvir and Truvada
09/09 CD4 375 - ?% - VL Undetectable - Boosted Reyataz with Norvir and Truvada
12/09 CD4 595 - ?% - VL Undetectable - VIT D 34 - Reyataz/Truvada/Norvir

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Green Tea Extract Protects Brain from Dementia?
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2008, 10:26:54 PM »
Whatever you decide to do please make sure you discuss it with your doctor. Just remember you are receiving anecdotal evidence and nothing more. No facts, just anecdotes.

Offline sharkdiver

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Re: Green Tea Extract Protects Brain from Dementia?
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2008, 12:17:47 PM »
Whatever you decide to do please make sure you discuss it with your doctor. Just remember you are receiving anecdotal evidence and nothing more. No facts, just anecdotes.

I must agree with Dachshund here about anecdotal evidence.  I was at a training for a workshop for developing research studies in my profession and the presenter kept repeating throughout the weekend..."this is your mantra"  "Anecdotal Means  Who Cares" 
 Truthfully, this was a shift in thinking for most of us who have practiced our profession for many years and felt "well this worked for one client, lets try it with every client"

Offline Merlin

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  • As My WILL, So MOTE It Be !
Re: Green Tea Extract Protects Brain from Dementia?
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2008, 11:43:48 PM »
Go thru everything in life with logic, moderation and common sense. Whatever works consistently for you, that is your reaity-anecdotal or otherwise. Dun reduce everything into a petri dish, life is way too magical for that. :)

Blessed Be!
I'll leave Hatred to those not strong enough to Love.

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Believe & The Power Of The Mind Transforms.
Make It Happen...

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I forgive them for everything.

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Offline poz1970

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Re: Green Tea Extract Protects Brain from Dementia?
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2008, 04:27:02 PM »
Has anyone seen any other studies showing the benefits or otherwise of Green Tea on HIV sufferers?

sorry, but I sorta find this question offensive, I'd much prefer the term PLWHA (people living with hiv aids), NOT sufferer.

J
"The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals and 362 admonishments to  heterosexuals. That doesn`t mean that God doesn`t love heterosexuals. It`s just that they need more supervision." -- Lynn Lavne

Offline Magnus

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Re: Green Tea Extract Protects Brain from Dementia?
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2008, 04:31:06 PM »
Sorry to phrase it that way man!  I do apoligise.......

But I am suffering  :P

Offline sharkdiver

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Re: Green Tea Extract Protects Brain from Dementia?
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2008, 03:29:33 PM »
<insert sarcastic comment here>
 ;)  jk
« Last Edit: March 20, 2008, 09:45:38 AM by sharkdiver »

Offline risred1

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  • My Source for Supps - www.newyorkbuyersclub.org
Re: Green Tea Extract Protects Brain from Dementia?
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2008, 10:31:13 AM »
Rereading the original question regarding Green Tea and Dementia. I see nothing in any study to indicate that it is a avenue.

I would stress that you need to see a doctor to treat your concerns.

My path with supplements are simply to try to keep my energy levels and CD4 up and my VL down, and to keep my digestive system working well. (Hiv related diarrhea.)

What i do understand that HART may help and may be the only thing that can help address HIV related dementia. I apologize for missing this from the original posting, focusing on my use of Green Tea.

There is some evidence and actual studies showing efficacy helping immune system recover in cancer patients. And there is test tube evidence on how ECGC can block HIV from attaching to CD4 cells. I would say these studies are preliminary.  I took this information to underly that high does green tea extract was well tolerated and relatively safe.

Regardless, I can't help but agree that anecdotal evidence that I'm providing is something I struggle with myself. I am treating myself based upon what I can glean from the Internet with these supplements. My results are mine alone. I'm personally enjoying the results for sure, and I really think this is beyond a placebo effect because of the long term I have been taking these supps. (Some would say 3 years is not really long term.) And there are risks to taking anything for any period of time.

I don't know if I'm helping anymore or not. My attitude today is to share what I'm doing and why, and to make sure that it is known that these are my opinions and decisions I have made on my own. However, I am not making these decisions in a vacuum. And have done a fair amount of personal research from resources I trust.

My view of HIV infection is that my body is not in a "normal" state. That regardless of my blood tests, I am afflicted with a long term viral infection, and that my view is that HIV is depleting my body's resources and ability to fight HIV. I supplement to support my immune system to extend the period of time I can stay off of meds so that I can benefit from the latest information and drugs when it is time to go on meds. The line I have choose is a CD4 of 350 or a VL of 100k or more. That is subject to change, of course as earlier might be better, especially if I can find a tolerable treatment, which I am optimistic about.

So, if you think you are having dementia issues, I hope you get to your doctor and discuss treatment options. Certainly you can discuss supplementation, and often supplementation can be considered compatible with treatment. But you have to get with your caregiver and not rely on a forum for making critical medical decisions.

cheers!
risred1 - hiv +
02/07 CD4 404 - 27% - VL 15k
10/07 CD4 484 - 31% - VL 45k
05/08 CD4 414 - 26% - VL 70k
01/09 CD4 365 - 23% - VL 65k
05/09 CD4 291 - 23% - VL 115k - Started Meds - Reyataz/Truvada
06/09 CD4 394 - ?% - VL 1200 - Boosted Reyataz with Norvir and Truvada
07/09 CD4 441 - ?% - VL 118 - Boosted Reyataz with Norvir and Truvada
09/09 CD4 375 - ?% - VL Undetectable - Boosted Reyataz with Norvir and Truvada
12/09 CD4 595 - ?% - VL Undetectable - VIT D 34 - Reyataz/Truvada/Norvir

Offline knowdifferent

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Re: Green Tea Extract Protects Brain from Dementia?
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2008, 12:42:24 PM »
This is from Dr. Mercola's website:

The Power of Green Tea Fights AIDS

Green Tea, Epigallocatechin gallate, or EGCG, is a component of green tea that can block the ability of the AIDS virus to hijack and destroy immune-system cells.

EGCG, the compound that gives green tea its color, is a flavonoid that also has anti-cancer, anti-microbial and anti-inflammatory properties. EGCG-based cancer drugs already are in clinical trials.

Researchers have known that EGCG inhibits the progression of HIV for at least a decade, but the precise mechanism was unknown. New experiments have recently demonstrated that EGCG binds itself to the exact spot HIV needs to infect a healthy T-cell, a kind of white blood cell crucial to fighting infections.

Normally, a surface protein on HIV called GP120 locks into a special "pocket" on the surface of susceptible host cells called CD4 T-cells. HIV then releases its genetic material into the healthy cell, and the infected cell begins producing more viruses. ECGC locks into the pocket first, preventing HIV from entering.

The amount of EGCG needed to block the progression of HIV is equivalent to that received from drinking two cups of green tea. However, the researchers did not recommend drinking green tea to slow down AIDS, positing that the chemical would need to be part of a cocktail of drugs.

Sources:

    * Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology October 18, 2006

    * Sci-Tech Today.com October 30, 2006

    * Houston Chronicle October 28, 2006

Offline BT65

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Re: Green Tea Extract Protects Brain from Dementia?
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2008, 10:43:17 PM »
Knowdifferent, it would be helpful if you could provide links to this.
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

 


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