Quantcast

Subscribe to:
POZ magazine
Newsletters
Join POZ: Facebook MySpace Twitter Pinterest
Tumblr Google+ Flickr Instagram
POZ Personals
Sign In / Join
Username:
Password:
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
November 24, 2014, 10:24:18 AM

Login with username, password and session length


Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 647102
  • Total Topics: 49297
  • Online Today: 192
  • Online Ever: 585
  • (January 07, 2014, 02:31:47 PM)
Users Online

Welcome


Welcome to the POZ/AIDSmeds Community Forums, a round-the-clock discussion area for people with HIV/AIDS, their friends/family/caregivers, and others concerned about HIV/AIDS.  Click on the links below to browse our various forums; scroll down for a glance at the most recent posts; or join in the conversation yourself by registering on the left side of this page.

Privacy Warning:  Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If you are HIV positive and disclose this in our forums, then it is almost the same thing as telling the whole world (or at least the World Wide Web). If this concerns you, then do not use a username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post.

  • The information shared in these forums, by moderators and members, is designed to complement, not replace, the relationship between an individual and his/her own physician.

  • All members of these forums are, by default, not considered to be licensed medical providers. If otherwise, users must clearly define themselves as such.

  • Forums members must behave at all times with respect and honesty. Posting guidelines, including time-out and banning policies, have been established by the moderators of these forums. Click here for “Am I Infected?” posting guidelines. Click here for posting guidelines pertaining to all other POZ/AIDSmeds community forums.

  • We ask all forums members to provide references for health/medical/scientific information they provide, when it is not a personal experience being discussed. Please provide hyperlinks with full URLs or full citations of published works not available via the Internet. Additionally, all forums members must post information which are true and correct to their knowledge.

  • Product advertisement—including links; banners; editorial content; and clinical trial, study or survey participation—is strictly prohibited by forums members unless permission has been secured from POZ.

To change forums navigation language settings, click here (members only), Register now

Para cambiar sus preferencias de los foros en español, haz clic aquí (sólo miembros), Regístrate ahora

Finished Reading This? You can collapse this or any other box on this page by clicking the symbol in each box.

Author Topic: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care  (Read 7019 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline DanKenny

  • Member
  • Posts: 147
Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« on: March 14, 2008, 01:13:33 PM »
Hi,

i have a friend who is also living with HIV.

He is also undocumented.  I think he can get access to care through Medicaid, but he seems to be worried about paying for medications. 

Isn't he eligible for ADAP? and Medicaid automatically?  What other options does he have -- would Ryan White Funds, work?

thanks very much - DK
My Progress:

09/07:   771   ~    <50     ~   29%
03/07:   493   ~    227      ~   22%
02/07:   Began Meds ~~ ATRIPLA
01/07:   315   ~   45, 000  ~   18%
10/06:   350   ~   32, 430  ~   22%
04/06:   440   ~   23, 997  ~   24%
07/05:   621   ~   36,000   ~   24%
01/05:   842   ~   2306      ~   28%
07/04:   615   ~   3370      ~   27%
04/04:   674   ~   739        ~   26%
11/03:   439   ~   2800      ~   22%
Infected probably around 1997 / Diagnosed 2002

Offline Winiroo

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,082
  • Positive since 1991
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2008, 05:18:10 PM »
Do you live near a county hospital with an HIV clinic?


Offline Oceanbeach

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,565
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2008, 06:14:57 PM »
Most county clinics receive funding from state and federal sources.  In order to receive this funding, they must provide medical care to people who can not otherwise pay for care or lose that funding.  Your friend can not be turned away because of inability to pay.  Your friend may be billed for services but depending on the individual clinic and their policies, that billing may never be sent to collections.  In a recent letter from Debbie T. Health Program Manager, she states "We are committed now more than ever to serving all who walk through our door.  I want to stress the fact that we will continue to provide you services even if you are unable to pay.  In fact, our styate and federal grant funding requires us to provide services regardless of ability to pay.You will not be turned away.

I do not know the current criteria for ADAP assistance but one way drug reps market to doctors is by leaving free samples, which are normally kept at the clinics for those who can not afford their medications.  Have he best day
Michael

Offline Tim Horn

  • Member
  • Posts: 799
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2008, 07:04:17 PM »
Dan:

In short, undocumented immigrnats generally are inelligible for Medicaid of Medicare. While legal immigrants are eligible for these public benefits after they've been in the U.S. for five years, undocumented immigrants generally don't qualify, regardless of their length of residency in the U.S.

In the vast major of states, AIDS Drug Assistance Programs -- some of which actually cover the cost of access to a healthcare provider, usually through designated public health/HIV/infectious disease clinic (e.g., New York) -- DO ensure access to antiretroviral therapy (and other HIV/AIDS-related treatments) to undocumented immigrants. All that's required here is proof of residency (not citizenship or legal immigration status), which can be something as basic as a utility bill or official piece of mail.

Your friend should contact a local AIDS service organization (ASO) and speak with a case manager or social worker about linking with ADAP. It will also be good to know what other medical, social, legal and financial services are aviailable to your friend -- these vary considerably from state-to-state -- and an ASO case worker can help in this regard. You can use this link to find an ASO near you.

Tim Horn   

Offline gregftl

  • Standard
  • Member
  • Posts: 204
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2008, 08:25:49 PM »
As a person who is a tax paying legal citizen it makes me sick taht I have to jump thru hoops to get services like ADAP and Ryan White while illegal aliens come here and have these services thrown right into their laps. Hello does anyone understand what the word illegal means? Against the law? Ring a bell? These people arent even paying taxes that pay for these services why should they be allowed to come here......illlegallly i stresss again....and be given access. These people shouldnt even be at the back of the line for services like this. It's sickening. Stop taking tax paying citizen's services away from them! If you want these services get in line and do it the right way like millions of immigrants did before. Jumping to the front of the line and taking advantage of a government that lures illegals here and encourages this kind of thing by giving services like this to them is pitiful. Just pitiful. Maybe i'll become a mexican citizen.....cross the border illegally then maybe I can get my hiv meds!
« Last Edit: March 15, 2008, 08:29:04 PM by gregftl »

Offline BT65

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 10,051
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2008, 08:28:36 PM »
As a person who is a tax paying legal citizen it makes me sick taht I have to jump thru hoops to get services like ADAP and Ryan White while illegal aliens come here and have these services thrown right into their laps. Hello does anyone understand what the word illegal means? Against the law? Ring a bell? These people arent even paying taxes that pay for these services why should they be allowed to come here......illlegallly i stresss again....and be given access. Get in line like everyone else. Stop taking tax paying citizen's services away from them!

Given your other post about the tightening of funds on ADAP, how can you be a tax-paying citizen and expect ADAP?
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline gregftl

  • Standard
  • Member
  • Posts: 204
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2008, 08:30:03 PM »
well maybe ADAP funds wouldnt be so stretched if illegals wouldnt have these services thrown at them like candy at a parade! One of the rules where I live is you have to be a Broward Country RESIDENT. Illegals are not residents .....and certainly not citizens.

Offline BT65

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 10,051
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2008, 08:35:19 PM »
Again, my question.........

If you pay taxes, then you obviously make a living working.  And if you are, and making those amounts you said in the thread on ADAP ($30,000) how can you even expect ADAP to help you?
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline gregftl

  • Standard
  • Member
  • Posts: 204
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2008, 08:43:57 PM »
Because down here we also have Ryan White for people that make above ADAP income. But because ADAP funds are being stretched thin......now people who get their meds thru Ryan White are being cut off. Funds from Ryan White are having to be used for ADAP and for those illegals.

The big question here is why am I being critized and questioned as to why I think people that are living illegal lives should be given services here in the United States? Why should people that are breaking the law be rewarded?

You are being pissy to me like I am the one doing something wrong. I'm not the one breaking the law.

Oh and another thing we have 45million americans without healthcare b/c they are unable to get insurance. Yet the ole illegals come here and get all the health care they want. It's just not unfair to alot of us people dealing with HIV it's not fair to all of us citizens who are playing by the rules.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2008, 09:00:17 PM by gregftl »

Offline Snowangel

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,413
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2008, 09:03:55 PM »
It puzzles me why ANYONE has problems getting HIV meds, whether you are a tax-payer or not.  It makes me wonder if the people that are making these rules and regulations understand the importance of med adherance and what happens if we don't take them as prescribed.  It seems like it is all red tape and politics to me.

I understand where you are coming from, gregftl, it must be very frustrating to see that happen.  I don't think they should exclude the illegals but they should be able to help everyone. 

Snow
Of all the things you wear, your expression is the most important

The heaviest thing you can carry is a grudge..

One thing you can give and still keep...is your word.

One thing you can't recycle is wasted time.

Offline GSOgymrat

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,045
  • HIV+ since 1993. INTJ
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2008, 09:53:59 PM »
I understand your frustration, gregflt. I chalk it up to a totally screwed up American healthcare system. I work part time for a county agency that connects uninsured and medicaid clients with mental health problems with care. For clients who are uninsured and need psychiatric hospitalization we have the option of either paying for them to go to local hospital or sending them to a state facility. Sometimes we will pay for illegal immigrants to go to local hospitals, which provide better care and cost a lot more, yet ship an uninsured college student to a state facility. The reason usually boils down to which client has a better advocate, meaning a family member or therapist is saying "I don't want them to go to the state."

The solution is complete universal healthcare where everyone has access to good healthcare. That is not going to happen any time soon given the political candidates we have running for office.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2008, 09:55:30 PM by GSOgymrat »

Offline gregftl

  • Standard
  • Member
  • Posts: 204
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2008, 10:01:38 PM »
Yes our healthcare system is screwed up. And that includes us citizens that have to pay for health care for people that are here illegally! And yes a universal care system or socialized system would be best for all. However, I do not believe the people here breaking the law should be allowed into that system. This is one reason we have this illegal immigration issue in the first place. Illegals are lured here by our stupid gov't with free health care and jobs from greedy corporations. My grandmother came here from Italy applied for citizenship and did it the right way and became a legal citizen. And plenty of others come here everyday and do it the right way and get in line.  I just think that should apply to everyone. People that break the law should not be rewarded. And those people that get into systems like ryan white/adap are draining the system.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2008, 10:05:49 PM by gregftl »

Offline BT65

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 10,051
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2008, 10:33:42 PM »
The big question here is why am I being critized and questioned as to why I think people that are living illegal lives should be given services here in the United States? Why should people that are breaking the law be rewarded?

I'm not criticizing you.  I was just wondering why, if you make $30,000 a year, should you have access to ADAP when so many people who don't make near that are having trouble.  I don't go along with illegal people getting free help either.  So, please, back off on that.


You are being pissy to me like I am the one doing something wrong. I'm not the one breaking the law.

Pissy, ay?  That's funny since I have a bladder infection right now.  But rest assured, I'm taking a medicine that makes my pissiness a nice shade of orange. 

You seem to be almost furious about illegal immigrants getting help.  Alot of them are actually going to Canada because they're being denied help here in the US.  Again, I'm not for illegals getting help; but I'm not going to go on a frickin' rant about it.  I know the healthcare system in this country is bad.  That's why we need a decent government.  If you want to rant, rant about the government. 
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline Mike2008

  • Member
  • Posts: 76
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2008, 09:57:34 AM »
Can he return to his country?  What services do they offer their citizens?  It may be nice to live in America illegally, but he has to think of his health first.   :-\
4-27-07  cd4 490  vl 1857
6-28-07  cd4 418  vl 993
started Atripla 9-17-07
10-9-07  cd4 502  vl,<75
1-15-08   cd4 473 vl< 75
blood platlets 31-26-79-20 -0-63-109

Offline sharkdiver

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,350
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2008, 05:51:08 PM »
Yes our healthcare system is screwed up. And that includes us citizens that have to pay for health care for people that are here illegally! And yes a universal care system or socialized system would be best for all. However, I do not believe the people here breaking the law should be allowed into that system. This is one reason we have this illegal immigration issue in the first place. Illegals are lured here by our stupid gov't with free health care and jobs from greedy corporations. My grandmother came here from Italy applied for citizenship and did it the right way and became a legal citizen. And plenty of others come here everyday and do it the right way and get in line.  I just think that should apply to everyone. People that break the law should not be rewarded. And those people that get into systems like ryan white/adap are draining the system.

There is no room for that hateful rhetoric here
« Last Edit: March 16, 2008, 05:54:53 PM by sharkdiver »

Offline Mike2008

  • Member
  • Posts: 76
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2008, 04:26:21 PM »
That doesn't seem hateful to me.   ???

I want people to obey laws too.  I do, and everyone I know does.  Society works best that way.  I agree that some laws are unfair and need to be changed, and that is what needs to happen, but I suppose it is easier to just close our eyes and do nothing about unfair immagration laws.

4-27-07  cd4 490  vl 1857
6-28-07  cd4 418  vl 993
started Atripla 9-17-07
10-9-07  cd4 502  vl,<75
1-15-08   cd4 473 vl< 75
blood platlets 31-26-79-20 -0-63-109

Offline sharkdiver

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,350
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2008, 05:22:03 PM »
That doesn't seem hateful to me.   ???

I want people to obey laws too.  I do, and everyone I know does.  Society works best that way.  I agree that some laws are unfair and need to be changed, and that is what needs to happen, but I suppose it is easier to just close our eyes and do nothing about unfair immagration laws.


I guess you would not.


Online Dachshund

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,993
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2008, 05:44:39 PM »
I wish someone would provide a link showing just how much money and services the "illegal" syphons from Ryan White. I've yet to see any statistics showing people that qualify for Ryan White are denied services because of illegal immigrants. It's funding, not Mexicans that are taxing Ryan White.

Remember there are many people out there who are outraged that their taxes go to Ryan White at all. Before we start pointing fingers it might do us all well to remember our own second class citizenship.

Offline Jeff64

  • Member
  • Posts: 255
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2008, 06:23:30 PM »
Can someone explain to me how an illegal immigrant is entitled to any government services at all?

I hurts my brain to think that we are paying for non-citizens.

If illegals are getting government services, that is totally wrong.



Offline Matty the Damned

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,239
  • Ninja Please
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2008, 06:36:08 PM »
They're not. Whenever this issue pops up, the complainants are never able to produce any evidence of illegal immigrants accessing health care services in their respective city/county/trailer park.

Clearly the latinos accessing HIV services in Broward County FL are eligible to do so because they are either US citizens or permanent residents. Some people just assume that every spanish speaker they encounter is an illegal immigrant.

MtD

Offline BT65

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 10,051
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2008, 06:50:56 PM »
That's so true.  I know here in Indiana, every person who receives any type of government help has to be documented.  People who complain about illegal people supposedly getting help are just pissed off because they don't qualify-usually because they're well above the income level cut-off.  Dredges.
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline Denver Toad

  • Member
  • Posts: 164
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2008, 07:19:31 PM »
Quote
People who complain about illegal people supposedly getting help are just pissed off because they don't qualify-usually because they're well above the income level cut-off.  Dredges.


Betty, Thatís as anecdotal as any of the above.

Therein lies the problem, lack of concrete factual evidence on either side of the argument. Is illegal immigration a problem, yes Iíd say it is. Is there a fair solution for both sides of the situation, not really. Itís irrational and unfair to marginalize those living here. Itís equally irrational and unfair to continue unrestricted immigration from south of the border. Not until we have an honest government that actually gives a damm will anything change. As the economic deterioration continues itís a problem that will likely grow ever larger. 
Life is short, Break the rules, Forgive quickly,
Kiss slowly, Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably, And never regret anything that made you smile.

Offline Mike2008

  • Member
  • Posts: 76
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2008, 07:39:02 PM »
I got to know some people in San Diego county (where the illegal pop. is estimated btwn 50 and 75 thousand) that provide housing for illegal immigrants.  They subdivide the rooms in these houses to fit 2 sets of bunkbeds in each and charge $100 per month.  Since most of them sleep at night on the open ground near where they work during the day they appreciate a safe warm place to sleep and access to a shower and phone.  One time one of these guys (almost all of them were single males, most in their 20's) was attacked and beaten up pretty badly, I am sure he at least had some fractured ribs, if not broken.  He absolutely refused to go to the ER.  We told him time and again that he could get help with no questions asked.  He absolutely refused.  He returned to work in 2 days so I guess he was okay.

My point is, that in my experience, these people will not access any healthcare no matter what the reason.  The number 1 fear is losing their job and being sent back to Mexico.  While they are here, they are easy prey for any criminal.  You could rob, beat, or cheat them in any way and they cannot or will not call the police. We are creating in effect a slave labor class in this country, and giving their children schooling or giving them drivers license or access to healthcare without making them full fledged citizens is wrong.

Most people would rather just go on with things like they are, especially when they find out what the true cost of fresh fruits and vegetables in the dead of winter is.  Would you pay $12 - $13 per pound? :-\

I'm done with my rant, and I feel better. :) Sorry if this is hate rhetoric.
4-27-07  cd4 490  vl 1857
6-28-07  cd4 418  vl 993
started Atripla 9-17-07
10-9-07  cd4 502  vl,<75
1-15-08   cd4 473 vl< 75
blood platlets 31-26-79-20 -0-63-109

Offline BT65

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 10,051
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2008, 09:20:36 PM »

Betty, Thatís as anecdotal as any of the above.


O rly.  In another thread, gregftl stated that he made $30,000.  Therefore, he is angered that he makes too much to qualify for state aid, blaming of course, the illegals.  I am also curious to know exactly what the percentage is of illegals receiving aid. 

Denver Toad, I think you jipped because of a pm I sent you.  If you have a problem with me, pm me. 
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline Winiroo

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,082
  • Positive since 1991
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2008, 10:17:54 PM »
I use a county hospital for all my health care and I live in Texas. There are plenty of Mexicans at the hospital. I'm sure plenty of them are legal and some of them not. I doubt very seriously if anyone keeps a tally of who is legal and who is not.

This is the US. These are people. They definitely do not need to go without healthcare. That would be inhumane in my opinion.

Don't get me wrong. There are many things about having illegal immigrants here I do not like. So I'm not waving my flag around saying lookie here at this and my opinion about the subject is the only one that is right. Its a touchy subject and I'm not sure if any resolution will ever be achieved.

Question: If I snuck into another country would I get free healthcare?

Wendy

Offline Cliff

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,645
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2008, 07:56:31 AM »
Hmmmm, not sure I want undocumented workers with AIDS running around the country.  Ignoring the ethical issue of denying life-necessity treatment to a human being....not only will some of them (unknowingly) cause new infections, but in the long run they will prove more expensive to society, (extended, costly and unavoidable hospital stays), than if we just allow them access to Ryan White/ADAP.  But this is really just a side issue, I doubt undocumented workers are costing the system that much.  It's just a blame game and immigrants, legal or otherwise, are about as easy of a target as you can get.

Offline RapidRod

  • Member
  • Posts: 15,288
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2008, 09:42:22 AM »
I'm sorry folks "Undocumented Immigrants/Illegals" need to be rendered emergency care then be sent back home to their country.

Offline Denver Toad

  • Member
  • Posts: 164
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2008, 10:21:09 AM »
No Betty, I have absolutely no difficulty with any thatís transpired between us. I have nothing but respect for you.

Your words about ADAP envy initially seemed to me as though they were targeted toward a wider audience. Once you pointed out what you were implying I better understood your meaning.
 
When Greg initially posted, he said he felt put out that at 30K per year he falls above qualification levels for assistance. Keeping in mind thatís likely gross income and not a genuine reflection of what he has to live on monthly. Using a 20% tax rate for 30K of gross income heís at 24K a year take home. If his health insurance has a high co-pay and deductible attached, the cost for monthly health maintenance could add up to a significant chunk of his budget. In the end Iíd wager much of whatís been expressed boils down to perceptions not certainty.
Life is short, Break the rules, Forgive quickly,
Kiss slowly, Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably, And never regret anything that made you smile.

Offline Winiroo

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,082
  • Positive since 1991
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2008, 11:01:51 AM »
I'm sorry folks "Undocumented Immigrants/Illegals" need to be rendered emergency care then be sent back home to their country.

Sounds fair to me.

Offline BT65

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 10,051
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2008, 12:31:25 PM »
When Greg initially posted, he said he felt put out that at 30K per year he falls above qualification levels for assistance. Keeping in mind thatís likely gross income and not a genuine reflection of what he has to live on monthly. Using a 20% tax rate for 30K of gross income heís at 24K a year take home. If his health insurance has a high co-pay and deductible attached, the cost for monthly health maintenance could add up to a significant chunk of his budget. In the end Iíd wager much of whatís been expressed boils down to perceptions not certainty.


Well, then, that makes it alright doesn't it.  He's just spewing out hatred at, like Cliff said, an easily targeted group of people.  Let Greg try living off the mercy of the system and then bring that poor-me whiney ass back here to see if anyone pacifies his drawling then.
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline bocker3

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,443
  • You gotta enjoy life......
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2008, 07:43:03 AM »
This thread is such a perfect example of what is wrong with the state of political discourse in this country.  When someone has an opposing view, instead of having a thoughtful, fact based discussion (one where you really might have a chance of having someone see a different angle on things), we have a personal attacks and name calling.  The only hateful rhetoric that I've read has been directed from member to member.
Having a different view doesn't mean someone is evil, it simply means they have a different view.  Listening, keeping an open mind and trying to understand the other side can be very helpful -- even if you, ultimately stay true to original view, you have the chance to learn something.  We should all try it.

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline J.R.E.

  • Member
  • Posts: 7,251
  • Joined Dec-2003 Living positive, since 1985.
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #31 on: March 21, 2008, 08:28:30 AM »
This thread is such a perfect example of what is wrong with the state of political discourse in this country.  When someone has an opposing view, instead of having a thoughtful, fact based discussion (one where you really might have a chance of having someone see a different angle on things), we have a personal attacks and name calling.  The only hateful rhetoric that I've read has been directed from member to member.
Having a different view doesn't mean someone is evil, it simply means they have a different view.  Listening, keeping an open mind and trying to understand the other side can be very helpful -- even if you, ultimately stay true to original view, you have the chance to learn something.  We should all try it.

Mike



Thanks for stating this Mike. I also did not like the way this thread was heading...


Ray


Ray
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 25 mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


Diagnosed positive in 1985,.. In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started on  HAART on October 24th, 2003.

 As of 8/25/14,  t-cells are at 402, Viral load <40

 Current % is at 11%

  
 62 years young.

Offline BT65

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 10,051
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2008, 09:02:59 AM »
I won't pat anyone on the head who comes here and says he makes $30,000 and wants to dredge on about not being able to get ADAP, blaming his troubles on supposed illegals grabbing up all the state's money.  No way.
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline redhotmuslbear

  • Member
  • Posts: 605
  • A genuine certified freak of nature, and a hot one
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2008, 01:45:59 PM »
I wish someone would provide a link showing just how much money and services the "illegal" syphons from Ryan White. I've yet to see any statistics showing people that qualify for Ryan White are denied services because of illegal immigrants. It's funding, not Mexicans that are taxing Ryan White.

Remember there are many people out there who are outraged that their taxes go to Ryan White at all. Before we start pointing fingers it might do us all well to remember our own second class citizenship.

Thnak you!  The canard about the consumption of services by undocumented immigrants is an attempt by neo-racist, anti-immigrant groups to incite White anger and to drive a wedge between disadvantaged citizens who are people of color and undocumented immigrants who share bonds of ancestry and/or language.  Left untreated these non-citizens would be at risk of spreading diseases in the community and not earning wages that go back into the communities where they live in the form of rents and consumer goods.

Just remember that the wakos funding anti-immigrants groups would be delighted to exterminate HIVers and Queers, too.

Namaste,
David
"The real problem is not whether machines think but whether men do." - BF Skinner
12-31-09   222wks VL  2430 CD4 690 (37%)
09-30-09   208wks VL  2050  CD4 925 (42%)
06-25-08   143wks VL  1359  CD4 668 (32%)  CD8 885
02-11-08   123wks off meds:  VL 1364 CD4 892(40%/0.99 ratio)
10-19-07   112wks off meds:   VL 292  CD4 857(37%/0.85 ratio)

One copy of delta-32 for f*****d up CCR5 receptors, and an HLA B44+ allele for "CD8-mediated immunity"... beteer than winning Powerball, almost!

Offline RapidRod

  • Member
  • Posts: 15,288
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2008, 02:56:11 PM »
Thnak you!  The canard about the consumption of services by undocumented immigrants is an attempt by neo-racist, anti-immigrant groups to incite White anger and to drive a wedge between disadvantaged citizens who are people of color and undocumented immigrants who share bonds of ancestry and/or language.  Left untreated these non-citizens would be at risk of spreading diseases in the community and not earning wages that go back into the communities where they live in the form of rents and consumer goods.

Just remember that the wakos funding anti-immigrants groups would be delighted to exterminate HIVers and Queers, too.

Namaste,
David

That is totally uncalled for, nor is any of what you posted factual. Sounds like you are trying to start hysteria by making those types of accusations.

Offline Winiroo

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,082
  • Positive since 1991
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #35 on: March 21, 2008, 08:57:10 PM »
Left untreated these non-citizens would be at risk of spreading diseases in the community
 :-\
attempt by neo-racist, anti-immigrant groups to incite White anger


To be fair even if treated some people will spread diseases anyway.


I'm nearly positive this was not directed toward me but I feel the need to comment anyway.
I am white but any issues I may have are not about color and I don't care about about sexual preference unless I'm sleeping with the person.

..............................................................................................


I never did get my question answered.

If I snuck into another country would I get free healthcare?

I honestly don't know.

Plus, if I needed to sneak into a country which would be best to go to for free health care?


Thanks a bunch,
Wendy

Offline Cliff

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,645
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #36 on: March 22, 2008, 05:04:49 AM »
If I snuck into another country would I get free healthcare?
It depends on the country.

In the UK, I think you technically aren't suppose to have access to "free" healthcare.  However, I don't think it's followed religiously.  When I registered at my HIV clinic, they never asked about immigration status.  So I presume, they really don't care.  And from what I hear, I gather that's similiar policies at most of the major clinics in London.

When I registered for my GP, I did have to show proof that not only was I resident of the area but that I also had a valid UK Visa.  It's difficult to say if that  istechnically required by law or just a policy of the GP or the Westminister/Chelsea PCT (they are responisble for providing/delivering healthcare for people in it's "zone").

I did use medical services in Germany and France once and was charged both times.  But I was just a visitor to those countries, I don't know how they handle residents without valid visas.

Why do you ask?  I wonder if this is a trick question, as undocumented workers don't have access to free healthcare in the US.  I don't consider some states not requiring proof of legal immigration for Ryan White/ADAP, qualifying as free healthcare for ALL undocumented workers.  Actually, I don't consider Ryan white/ADAP as healthcare at all.  It generally only covers on HIV treatment (and related illnesses), which is only a part of the care we need.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2008, 05:19:42 AM by Cliff »

Offline gerry

  • Member
  • Posts: 522
  • Joined AM Feb 2003
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #37 on: March 22, 2008, 07:38:39 AM »
1. It is wrong to assume (or imply) that undocumented immigrants in the US do not pay taxes because they do.  It is difficult to calculate how much they actually pay into the system but there are states that attempt to study this (link 1, link 2, ink 3).

2. On a federal level, the only government services that undocumented immigrants in the US are eligible for are emergency health care and primary/secondary education.  On an individual state level, the rules vary.  For ADAP, as mentioned above, there are states that allow undocumented immigrants access to the program.  Some examples: NY; CA.  The "residency" requirements for several state ADAPs do not pertain to legal status "residency"; only that there is proof that the person lives in that state. 

3. Undocumented immigrants also have the same access rights to safety net clinics (including community and migrant health centers) that receive federal dollars in exchange for providing health care to clients irrespective of their ability to pay.  The fees are reduced to a minimum for those who have incomes below 200% poverty (including undocumented immigrants) who do not have health insurance.  The federal dollars received by these clinics are meant to offset the cost of taking care of the uninsured.  Some hospitals that have a high burden of uncompensated care (including the undocumented immigrant services) also receive federal dollars to offset these. 

Offline RapidRod

  • Member
  • Posts: 15,288
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #38 on: March 22, 2008, 08:07:50 AM »
1. It is wrong to assume (or imply) that undocumented immigrants in the US do not pay taxes because they do.  It is difficult to calculate how much they actually pay into the system but there are states that attempt to study this (link 1, link 2, ink 3).

2. On a federal level, the only government services that undocumented immigrants in the US are eligible for are emergency health care and primary/secondary education.  On an individual state level, the rules vary.  For ADAP, as mentioned above, there are states that allow undocumented immigrants access to the program.  Some examples: NY; CA.  The "residency" requirements for several state ADAPs do not pertain to legal status "residency"; only that there is proof that the person lives in that state. 

3. Undocumented immigrants also have the same access rights to safety net clinics (including community and migrant health centers) that receive federal dollars in exchange for providing health care to clients irrespective of their ability to pay.  The fees are reduced to a minimum for those who have incomes below 200% poverty (including undocumented immigrants) who do not have health insurance.  The federal dollars received by these clinics are meant to offset the cost of taking care of the uninsured.  Some hospitals that have a high burden of uncompensated care (including the undocumented immigrant services) also receive federal dollars to offset these. 

Hmmm, all 12 million of them. Don't buy it. Sorry.

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 28,140
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #39 on: March 22, 2008, 08:40:59 AM »
My ex-husband was an illegal immigrant in the US for a few years before (and after) I met him. He'd overstayed a tourist visa from the UK.

Before he went to Ohio (where we met), he worked for a building firm in Florida. He had a SS number he'd gotten from ... I forget... but he paid taxes and social security and never got anything back from paying in - because the SS number wasn't actually his and he couldn't claim even if he wanted to as it would expose the fraud. He paid taxes and SS in order to have a job and support himself.

He also paid taxes etc when he and another Brit had a house renovation company in NYC - while he was still illegal. Again, he was paying in but not taking out, unless you take into account using the infrastructure of the place where he lived. (roads, sewers, rubbish collection etc) He may have been illegal, but he paid his way.

I have to say though, that I'm sure he had a much easier time of "getting away" with what he did simply because he's a Brit. Especially when he was in Florida. The whole reason he had to have an SS number to get work in Florida was because of all the illegals from Latin America. If he wasn't "that nice British bloke", he probably would have been subject to much deeper scrutiny over his eligibility to work.

Not all illegal immigrants are there to take advantage of health care. My ex never once needed a doctor until after we were married and he was legal and had health insurance through his job. By the way, the job he had by then was a specialist job and the firm he worked for couldn't find any native-born people to do it. Just sayin...

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Online Dachshund

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,993
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #40 on: March 22, 2008, 08:43:22 AM »
1. It is wrong to assume (or imply) that undocumented immigrants in the US do not pay taxes because they do.  It is difficult to calculate how much they actually pay into the system but there are states that attempt to study this (link 1, link 2, ink 3).

2. On a federal level, the only government services that undocumented immigrants in the US are eligible for are emergency health care and primary/secondary education.  On an individual state level, the rules vary.  For ADAP, as mentioned above, there are states that allow undocumented immigrants access to the program.  Some examples: NY; CA.  The "residency" requirements for several state ADAPs do not pertain to legal status "residency"; only that there is proof that the person lives in that state. 

3. Undocumented immigrants also have the same access rights to safety net clinics (including community and migrant health centers) that receive federal dollars in exchange for providing health care to clients irrespective of their ability to pay.  The fees are reduced to a minimum for those who have incomes below 200% poverty (including undocumented immigrants) who do not have health insurance.  The federal dollars received by these clinics are meant to offset the cost of taking care of the uninsured.  Some hospitals that have a high burden of uncompensated care (including the undocumented immigrant services) also receive federal dollars to offset these. 

Thank you Gerry for providing facts and not just conjecture.

Offline Victory101

  • Member
  • Posts: 33
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #41 on: March 22, 2008, 12:11:56 PM »
Thanks Ann for sharing about your ex husband. The general feeling about illegals is that they are here to receive and not give out. I live in the UK and know "illlegals" who work and pay taxes. They also have Nis which must be the equivalent to the social security number in the US. It isn't as easy as people think to regularise your stay. Most people think they are law breakers so must be "bad people". Yet they are just trying to make a living for themselves and their families under adverse conditions.

Offline Winiroo

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,082
  • Positive since 1991
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #42 on: March 22, 2008, 05:05:42 PM »
Why do you ask?  I wonder if this is a trick question, as undocumented workers don't have access to free healthcare in the US.  I don't consider some states not requiring proof of legal immigration for Ryan White/ADAP, qualifying as free healthcare for ALL undocumented workers.  Actually, I don't consider Ryan white/ADAP as healthcare at all.  It generally only covers on HIV treatment (and related illnesses), which is only a part of the care we need.

Nope not a trick question, I was just curious. I don't even have a passport so I'm not going anywhere anytime soon LOL

Everyone has access to free healthcare if they go to county hospitals. They cant refuse anyone.

Offline Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 24,420
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #43 on: March 22, 2008, 05:31:01 PM »
Back on topic, DanKenny, I know you live in Philadelphia so if your friend does as well send him for HIV treatment at the Jonathan Lax Center, 1233 Locust Street.  They will see him regardless of ability to pay.

He would also be assigned a case worker within the Lax Center so they whould be able to assist him with ADAP forms.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline anniebc

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,951
  • AM member since 2003
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #44 on: March 22, 2008, 06:15:38 PM »
Thanks Philly..now that we are (hopefully) back on track with the original poster please lets keep it that way..We don't want to be dishing any of these out.... ;)


Hugs
Jan :-*


[attachment deleted by admin]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never knock on deaths door..ring the bell and run..he really hates that.

Offline gerry

  • Member
  • Posts: 522
  • Joined AM Feb 2003
Re: Undocumented Immigrants and Access to Care
« Reply #45 on: March 23, 2008, 04:37:39 PM »
Hmmm, all 12 million of them. Don't buy it. Sorry.

With apologies to the mods, I just wanted to respond to Rod:

Rod: If you were referring solely to income taxes, you are correct that many undocumented immigrants don't pay income taxes.  However, according to this document "the Internal Revenue Service has estimated that about six million individual income tax returns are filed by undocumented immigrants each year" which is still pretty substantial.  Also, the "taxes" referred to in the articles include sales and property taxes as well.


 


Terms of Membership for these forums
 

© 2014 Smart + Strong. All Rights Reserved.   terms of use and your privacy
Smart + Strong® is a registered trademark of CDM Publishing, LLC.