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Author Topic: Brand new Immune system grown with elite controller stem cells  (Read 5805 times)

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Offline Magnus

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Wow, this guy had his immune system destroyed with chemo then regrown with stem cells from an elite controller: http://www.poz.com/articles/hiv_aids_stemcell_401_14199.shtml

Most exciting is the fact that the patient, who went off of his antiretroviral medication for the transplant procedure, has been able to remain off of the drugs for more than 285 days. Moreover, when the researchers looked for evidence of virus in blood and rectal tissue biopsies, not only was his viral load undetectable, more sensitive methods for detecting viral particles, known as proviral DNA, were also unable to find evidence of HIV.

Unfortunately wonk work for anyone with CXCR4 receptors :(

Here is the Abstract from CROI Boston 2008: http://www.retroconference.org/2008/data/files/retro2008_frameset.htm

« Last Edit: March 12, 2008, 10:02:34 PM by Magnus »

Offline aliveinla

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Re: Brand new Immune system grown with elite controller stem cells
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2008, 12:12:02 AM »
Stem cell should be a hopeful area for breakthroughs. In 2002, my boss had colon cancer and was declared to have only 2 months to live by American doctor. He was refered to a French doctor and went to France to undergo some sort of stem cell treatment and now he has no cancers and living happily.

Too bad stem cell research isn't popular in America under this administration, fortunately we will have a democratic president next year.
4/24/07: Last tested Neg
1/22/08: First tested Poz
1/30/08: CD4 393; 28%; VL: 44k
3/18/08: CD4 218; 26%; VL: 222K
4/24/08: CD4 402; 26%; VL: lab forgot
7/22/08: CD4 405; 25%; VL: 6,780
10/15/08: CD4 340, 26%; VL: N/A
2/4/09: CD4 394, 26%; VL: N/A
Jun 09: CD4 300, 25%; VL: 4000
Oct 09: CD4 324, 23%, VL: 10K
11/22/09: started Atripla
11/20/11: CD4 405; VL: UD

Offline Magnus

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Re: Brand new Immune system grown with elite controller stem cells
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2008, 11:40:24 AM »
Yes stem cells have a lot of potential.

Good thing is now they are primarily harvested from adults so no controversies about embryos. But im sure the moral majority in the US wouldent understand that  ;D

Offline bimazek

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Re: Brand new Immune system grown with elite controller stem cells
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2008, 11:33:44 AM »
this is an amazing result and will give the scientists all kind of lines of reserach to pursue that may result in other possibilities for genetic therapies some of which may not need the complete distruction of immune system or stem cells
also they found a way to create stem cells from normal cells a few months ago i read on line so this may be possible without the controvery of stem cells

i feel that it will take more than a democrat president to change the fundamental focus of modern medicine in the usa, first 49% of the senate is repulsive republicans and they will block any change that helps ave. people and esp. hiv people,  gene therapies and stem cell therapies and anything that takes some major personalized biotech work is tough to see how the change can be brought about because the `system`is designed to pay for and administer meds for life for all diseases now.  I am not sure why.

for example it would be a cost savings to give a stem cell therapy over a life time   some places says 700k dollars lifetime of hiv meds , verses 170k one time payment for one gene therapy to insert the gene that would stop hiv, this gene therapy is not proven yet
but that is still if we look at it in a one year view
18k per year for meds
170k for one time gene therapy      170- 18=152
that money has to come from somewhere
if there are one million of us  in usa
152k dollars each times one million,  152 billion dollars to do a gene therapy or expensive therapy on all of us
can you imagine barney frank asking for  152 billion dollars to do a gene therapy on all of us

i like to make hopeful posts and i feel that when the scientists start to break this down that they may be able to give the great effect of this stem cell therapy to us, without completely distroying the immune system and without using stem cells per say,,, at least that is my hope and it may take some time

agian there are so so many new things breakthrus that i have to feel that we are going to see lots of great new lower and lower side effect meds and other therapies in near future within 3 - 7 years

look at that article about all the hiv biotech companies that were started recently and the tens of milllions of investment each one got, one resut of high med prices is the investors are flocking to this sector

Offline Magnus

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Re: Brand new Immune system grown with elite controller stem cells
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2008, 11:47:17 AM »
Quote
look at that article about all the hiv biotech companies that were started recently and the tens of milllions of investment each one got, one result of high med prices is the investors are flocking to this sector

Yes- at the moment HIV treatment is very profitable- we have to hope it stays that way or there might not be an economic incentive to translate these scientific breakthroughs in stem cell and gene therapy into treatments for people living with HIV.

What terrifies me is if a 100% preventative vaccine is found so HIV can never be transmitted, would that be the end of a search for a cure?

Offline J220

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Re: Brand new Immune system grown with elite controller stem cells
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2008, 10:53:28 PM »
No reason to be terrified, in all likelyhood a preventive vaccine would have broad therapeutic effects as well, if not able to clear the onfection altogether. A vaccine that is capable of eliciting a response strong enough to prevent infection will most certailny elicit a response that is able to at least keep the infection in a long-term or permanent latent state.
"Hope is my philosophy
Just needs days in which to be
Love of Life means hope for me
Born on a New Day" - John David

Offline Magnus

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Re: Brand new Immune system grown with elite controller stem cells
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2008, 11:50:42 PM »
Thanks for the reassurance J220- I started to panic a bit thinking about that earlier!  ;D

Also even if there is a preventative vaccine, there will still be of millions of us left living with the disease. I'm sure there would still be an incentive (financial or Nobel prize ;) ) to cure HIV / AIDS.

Hope keeps me going also bimazek!
« Last Edit: March 15, 2008, 01:24:43 AM by Magnus »

Offline madbrain

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Re: Brand new Immune system grown with elite controller stem cells
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2008, 12:03:00 AM »
can you imagine barney frank asking for  152 billion dollars to do a gene therapy on all of us

If it works, yes. It would be money better spent than the stupid Iraq war that has cost far more.

Offline Magnus

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Re: Brand new Immune system grown with elite controller stem cells
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2008, 12:53:21 AM »
Quote
If it works, yes. It would be money better spent than the stupid Iraq war that has cost far more.

Your right there!

Offline Magnus

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Re: Brand new Immune system grown with elite controller stem cells
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2008, 02:33:36 AM »
oops bad link in my first post: http://www.retroconference.org/2008/PDFs/719.pdf

Offline NYCguy

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Re: Brand new Immune system grown with elite controller stem cells
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2008, 12:35:45 AM »
This is really incredible.  However, don't forget about Sangamo Pharma, whose zinc-finger technology supposedly can permanently turn off the CCR5 receptors in the majority of cells via a simple injection or injections.  Much easier and cheaper if it works!  They've been claiming they will start clinical trials for a while now, but so far I haven't seen anything about this happening. 

Here's a link to a brief explanation on the company's site:

http://www.sangamo.com/human/human_thera_overview.html#HIV
11/9/06 = #$%^&!
sometime early Dec 2006:
CD4 530 20%/VL >250,000 (&*$$%!!)
started Reyataz300mg/Norvir/Truvada 12-27-06.
1/30/07 CD4 540 30%/VL <400
4/07 CD4 600+ 33%/VL <50
6/9/07 CD4 720 37%/VL <50
10/15/07 CD4 891 (!) %? VL <50
1/2010 CD4 599 (37%) VL<50 (drop due to acute HCV)
9/2010 - looks like HCV is gone for good! And I'm finally drinking again, thank GOD
2013 - considering a switch to Stribild. but I love my Kidneys (but I hate farting all the time!)...
June 2013 - switched to Stribild.  so far so good...

Offline sanitex

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Re: Brand new Immune system grown with elite controller stem cells
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2008, 01:22:45 AM »
hi everyone
                    pls can someone explain to me what's seroconversion ?do not mind my spelling.i always saw it in this forum all time
27/12/07 cd4 20 vl 1million
10/4 /08 cd4 86 vl 63
1/7/08  cd4 186 vl undetectable
16/10/08 cd4 196 vl undet
23/1/09 cd4 248 vl un
10/9/11 cd4 418 vl <40 %22
13/12/11 cd4 410 vl undet 23%
24/2/12 cd4 545 vl undet 26%
on 22/2/12 change truvada to Recovir-EM
due to no stock on Truvada.
10/9/11 cd4 418 vl <40 %22
7/7/12 cd4 359 vl <40 22%
23/8/12 cd4 400 vl <40 23%,
testosterone test 7.5 ng/ml and
thyroid (TSH)1.32 ulu/ml creatinine.eGFR blck 1.5 all fasting test morning.
13/12/2012 cd4 523 24% vl <40
18/3/2013 cd4  513  23% vl <40
regimen ATRIPLA
03/8/2013 cd4 429 22% vl <40
13/11/2013 cd4 455 23% vl <40
Anti-HBs test (quantitative ) Anti-HBs positive
Titer 16.95 mlu/ml <10.00
22/3/14 cd4 396 vl <40 % 24
24/7/14 change to Teevir

Offline ronaldinho

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Re: Brand new Immune system grown with elite controller stem cells
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2008, 09:09:53 AM »
This is really incredible.  However, don't forget about Sangamo Pharma, whose zinc-finger technology supposedly can permanently turn off the CCR5 receptors in the majority of cells via a simple injection or injections.  Much easier and cheaper if it works!  They've been claiming they will start clinical trials for a while now, but so far I haven't seen anything about this happening. 

Here's a link to a brief explanation on the company's site:

http://www.sangamo.com/human/human_thera_overview.html#HIV

I was not aware of this zinc-finger techonology, thanks for the info. However, there is some information in the link of sangamo that does not seem correct to me, though i am not an expert (somebody correct me, if am mistaken). They say that people with the ccr5delta32 mutation is immune to HIV infection. As far as I know, people which are homizygote for this mutation are more resistant to HIV infection, but that does not confer immunity.

They also say that CCR5 is the co-receptor for HIV entry into T-cells and without CCR5 expressed on their surface, HIV cannot infect these cells. This is wrong , since CCR5 is not the only co-receptor, there are others receptors which may be able to support entry of HIV in the cell, like CXCR4. Actually, that is why they  are called "CO"-receptors. It is very strange that a serious bio tech company displays information with these technical errors in its site.

As for the topic of this thread, i found the case of the german patient amazing, and i can not understand the reason why it did not get more media attention. I understand the limitations of the study ( a single case, no control group, etc etc  and also that even if proved succesful, this would not be the cure for HIV, due to cost limitations and the high risk of the procedure. Nonetheless, if this german patient continue to show the labs he is showing in the long term (and 285 days are already a long time), it will be confirmed ad the first documented case of HIV erradication.  This seems huge to me.



Offline bmancanfly

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Re: Brand new Immune system grown with elite controller stem cells
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2008, 09:52:46 AM »

As for the topic of this thread, i found the case of the german patient amazing, and i can not understand the reason why it did not get more media attention. I understand the limitations of the study ( a single case, no control group, etc etc  and also that even if proved succesful, this would not be the cure for HIV, due to cost limitations and the high risk of the procedure. Nonetheless, if this german patient continue to show the labs he is showing in the long term (and 285 days are already a long time), it will be confirmed ad the first documented case of HIV erradication.  This seems huge to me.

I couldn't agree more.  Can you imagine if someone had completely eliminated the signs of, say Alzheimers Disease (but fill in your favorite disease),  for 285 days.  Can you imagine the tidal wave of media attention it would have gotten.  Complete eradication for 285 days and vitually no media coverage!!  What gives?

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt."

 Bertrand Russell

Offline Magnus

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  • Posts: 63
Re: Brand new Immune system grown with elite controller stem cells
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2008, 11:32:47 AM »
Quote
I couldn't agree more.  Can you imagine if someone had completely eliminated the signs of, say Alzheimers Disease (but fill in your favorite disease),  for 285 days.  Can you imagine the tidal wave of media attention it would have gotten.  Complete eradication for 285 days and vitually no media coverage!!  What gives?

Yes this is really awesome news- I cant wait to hear updates. It does seem pretty barbaric to completely destroy the immune system with chemotherapy, but I'm sure the process could be refined...... If anyone finds more news on how this patient is doing please post.

Quote
hi everyone
                    pls can someone explain to me what's seroconversion ?do not mind my spelling.i always saw it in this forum all time
Hi santiex: seroconversion is when your blood becomes HIV + usually around the time you get an illness days or weeks after being infected.

Quote
They also say that CCR5 is the co-receptor for HIV entry into T-cells and without CCR5 expressed on their surface, HIV cannot infect these cells. This is wrong , since CCR5 is not the only co-receptor, there are others receptors which may be able to support entry of HIV in the cell, like CXCR4. Actually, that is why they  are called "CO"-receptors. It is very strange that a serious bio tech company displays information with these technical errors in its site.

Does anyone know why there is so little research on how to switch of CXCR4 receptors? I know that the researchers can copy the LTNP or elite controllers cells that lack CCR5- is it something to do with this?


Offline sanitex

  • Member
  • Posts: 386
Re: Brand new Immune system grown with elite controller stem cells
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2008, 01:52:02 AM »
H! magnus
               thanks for your answer,did you check your mail ?
27/12/07 cd4 20 vl 1million
10/4 /08 cd4 86 vl 63
1/7/08  cd4 186 vl undetectable
16/10/08 cd4 196 vl undet
23/1/09 cd4 248 vl un
10/9/11 cd4 418 vl <40 %22
13/12/11 cd4 410 vl undet 23%
24/2/12 cd4 545 vl undet 26%
on 22/2/12 change truvada to Recovir-EM
due to no stock on Truvada.
10/9/11 cd4 418 vl <40 %22
7/7/12 cd4 359 vl <40 22%
23/8/12 cd4 400 vl <40 23%,
testosterone test 7.5 ng/ml and
thyroid (TSH)1.32 ulu/ml creatinine.eGFR blck 1.5 all fasting test morning.
13/12/2012 cd4 523 24% vl <40
18/3/2013 cd4  513  23% vl <40
regimen ATRIPLA
03/8/2013 cd4 429 22% vl <40
13/11/2013 cd4 455 23% vl <40
Anti-HBs test (quantitative ) Anti-HBs positive
Titer 16.95 mlu/ml <10.00
22/3/14 cd4 396 vl <40 % 24
24/7/14 change to Teevir

Offline Magnus

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  • Posts: 63
Re: Brand new Immune system grown with elite controller stem cells
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2008, 04:14:45 AM »
Quote
This is really incredible.  However, don't forget about Sangamo Pharma, whose zinc-finger technology supposedly can permanently turn off the CCR5 receptors in the majority of cells via a simple injection or injections.  Much easier and cheaper if it works!  They've been claiming they will start clinical trials for a while now, but so far I haven't seen anything about this happening.

Thanks for info on Sangamo- i had not heard of this technique before..... sounds great and simple! They are still in animal trials for HIV at the moment.
Here are some updates: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/101131.php

Offline NYCguy

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Re: Brand new Immune system grown with elite controller stem cells
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2008, 06:05:29 PM »
Couldn't agree more that it's weird there hasn't been more attention to the German case.  If it turns out he really has eradicated it, will his immune system reconstitute?  What about the gut?  Lots of interesting questions.

ronaldinho, you make good points - I think Sangamo is trying to make it simple and put everything in 'lay' terms, plus of course to bolster their case. As far as I know, people with the delta32 deletion have in many cases been shown to be resistant by finding high risk people (eg prostitutes and iv drug users) who have been repeatedly exposed but stay negative.  Whether or not they are truly immune, is not really clear and hard to prove so that is a bit of a miss statement. 

As for CCR5, if your virus hasn't 'troped' to the other receptors, then presumably this treatment would be quite effective and that would be the primary or only receptor used (and the pill version has proven that) but you are totally correct that they sort of miss-represent the situation and avoid the whole CXCR4 issue on their explanation.  My question would be if you did this treatment, would it encourage your virus to trope?  The people with the deletion just manage to avoid getting it, so the issue doesn't really come up.  Are there people with the delta32 deletion that are positive?  I have no idea - iteresting question.
11/9/06 = #$%^&!
sometime early Dec 2006:
CD4 530 20%/VL >250,000 (&*$$%!!)
started Reyataz300mg/Norvir/Truvada 12-27-06.
1/30/07 CD4 540 30%/VL <400
4/07 CD4 600+ 33%/VL <50
6/9/07 CD4 720 37%/VL <50
10/15/07 CD4 891 (!) %? VL <50
1/2010 CD4 599 (37%) VL<50 (drop due to acute HCV)
9/2010 - looks like HCV is gone for good! And I'm finally drinking again, thank GOD
2013 - considering a switch to Stribild. but I love my Kidneys (but I hate farting all the time!)...
June 2013 - switched to Stribild.  so far so good...

Offline RobT

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  • Posts: 319
Re: Brand new Immune system grown with elite controller stem cells
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2008, 04:02:47 PM »
So, If this works; can we "buy" a NEW immune system? I find it od that there has not been much media attn. on this besides here. I suppose if it was another virus/disease, there wud b more media attn.

RobT


Current meds: Atripla
VL: undetectable
CD4: 630

Offline bimazek

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Re: Brand new Immune system grown with elite controller stem cells
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2008, 05:54:34 PM »
this effect may be possible soon from HAART and there is one example already of someone who is already possibly virus free on ART

He has studied some individuals on long term ART who started relatively soon after becoming infected, and in one he can’t find virus anywhere (including the gut), by any technique (RNA or DNA).


http://tagbasicscienceproject.typepad.com/tags_basic_science_vaccin/

7. Is eradication possible?
Chun stated that five years ago, his answer would have been no. Now he is “cautiously optimistic in a subset of patients.” He has studied some individuals on long term ART who started relatively soon after becoming infected, and in one he can’t find virus anywhere (including the gut), by any technique (RNA or DNA). This individual has not tried stopping ART yet, however. Chun has also compared the proviral burden (amount of integrated HIV DNA) in small groups on long term ART (>7yrs) that started early vs. during chronic infection.

Offline fearless

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Re: Brand new Immune system grown with elite controller stem cells
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2008, 06:18:07 PM »
Something similar happened in Australia earlier this year. A teenager who received a liver transplant had her blood type and immune system change to that of the donor. They surmised that some of the stem cells from the donor liver penetrated her bone marrow.

"Demi-Lee Brennan had a liver transplant after she suffered liver failure. Nine months later, doctors at Sydney's Westmead Children's Hospital were amazed to find the teenager's blood group had changed to the donor's blood type.

Further tests revealed the stem cells from the donor liver had penetrated her bone marrow.

Dr Michael Stormon says he and his colleagues were even more surprised when they found the girl's immune system had almost totally been replaced by that of the donor, meaning she no longer had to take anti-rejection drugs."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/01/24/2145289.htm

Be forgiving, be grateful, be optimistic

Offline John2038

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Re: Brand new Immune system grown with elite controller stem cells
« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2008, 07:03:39 PM »
Stem Cells is definitely the best progress ever made towards a possible cure.

This approach shows that those who were once actively infected can remain HIV undetectable without any ongoing use of therapy.

Voices are raising to urge other researchers to replicate or build upon this impressive case study as says thebody.

It's very frustrating that labs haven't investigate such possibilities further much earlier, especially since the the apparition of the Selzentry which have been well shown in studies the importance of the CCR5 receptor which blocks the receptor and slows HIV reproduction.

 


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