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Author Topic: Lipo premeds or paranoia?  (Read 4537 times)

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Offline next2u

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,762
Lipo premeds or paranoia?
« on: February 24, 2008, 12:41:09 PM »
hello,

i was at the gym yesterday when i noticed a sunken area below both my eyes. at first i brushed it off, but then it became obsessing. can lipo or wasting happen in the absence of meds? what would be a general (i understand the genetics/diet/etc.. aspect of this) timeline? i also have wood floors in some areas in my apt and it hurts my feet to walk on them. not to mention increased foot pain when walking around at work.

ive also had difficult washing dishes. i do not have a dishwasher in my apt and must do everything by hand. lately it feels as though the bones in my hands are pressing against the objects im washing. can all this be in my head? am i experiencing some of the early stages of lipo? if so, will meds help or exacerbate the condition? ill talk to my id doc about this at our next meeting. until then, any feedback would be helpful.
midapr07 - seroconversion
sept07 - tested poz
oct07 cd4 1013; vl 13,900; cd4% 41
feb08 cd4  694;  vl 16,160; cd4% 50.1
may08 cd4 546; vl 91,480; cd4% 32
aug08 cd4 576; vl 48,190; cd4% 40.7
dec08 cd4 559; vl 63,020; cd4% 29.4
feb09 cd4 464; vl 11,000; cd4% 26
may09 cd4 544; vl 29,710; cd4% 27.2
oct09 cd4 ...; vl 23,350; cd4% 31.6
mar10 cd4 408; vl 59,050; cd4% 31.4
aug10 cd4 328; vl 80,000; cd4% 19.3 STARTED ATRIPLA
oct10 cd4 423; vl 410 ;); cd4% 30.2
jun11 cd4 439; vl <20 ;); cd4% 33.8 <-Undetectable!
mar12 cd4 695; vl ud; cd4% 38.6
jan13 cd4 738; vl ud; cd4% 36.8
aug13 cd4 930; vl ud; cd4% 44.3
jan14 cd4 813; vl ud; cd4% 42.8
may14 cd4 783; vl *; cd4%43.5

Offline aztecan

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,404
  • 29 years positive, 57 years a pain in the butt
Re: Lipo premeds or paranoia?
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2008, 01:08:36 PM »
Hey Next,

Is it possible you are experiencing some lipoatrophy? Yes.

Here is some info:

Quote
HIV itself may be a factor to consider. Long before people started taking anti-HIV drug combinations, people living with HIV were more likely to have higher levels of triglycerides in their blood and to experience body-shape changes, compared to HIV-negative people. And because many HIV-positive people are living longer while on combination anti-HIV drug therapy, the HIV-related fat problems continue to get worse. Researchers are still looking into the effects of HIV (and problems with the immune system) on the way our bodies store and utilize lipids.

Here is a link to where that came from:

http://www.aidsmeds.com/articles/Lipodystrophy_10730.shtml

OK, that said, there is no way to diagnose you over the Internet. I would check in with your doctor to see what he/she thinks.

If it is lipoatrophy, exercise can help offset the effects on the body. More muscle mass will make a loss of subcutaneous fat less noticeable. In fact, I have had people ask me what diet plan I was on to create such "cuts" and muscle tone.

The face and bottom of the feet, well, that's another story. There are lessons on the fillers available for the face here.  But keep in mind many insurance plans won't pay for this, so start saving your pennies if you are considering this.

For the feet, get used to wearing shoes, slippers or something akin to them. I rarely walk barefooted any more, It just is too painful, especially when coupled with the neuropathy - but that's a topic for another thread.

But, before you panic or start obsessing about lipatrophy, see your doc.

HUGS,

Mark
"May your life preach more loudly than your lips."
~ William Ellery Channing (Unitarian Minister)

Offline next2u

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,762
Re: Lipo premeds or paranoia?
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2008, 01:36:38 PM »
thanks for the info. i guess i have another compelling reason to go to the gym (hot sweaty men being highly ranked).

oh, and this really sucks. i was hoping for a couple of years of slow hiv progression. yes i will start saving my pennies. i think there is  a clinic in mexico where i can get sculptra cheaper than in the us. i will look into that also. too many bills, too much hiv. its a fucked combo.

exercise and socks it is. hopefully a dishwasher some day also. hmm, i guess ill have to get some sole inserts too.

lastly, does it ever reverse? could meds possible slow or reverse the trend?
midapr07 - seroconversion
sept07 - tested poz
oct07 cd4 1013; vl 13,900; cd4% 41
feb08 cd4  694;  vl 16,160; cd4% 50.1
may08 cd4 546; vl 91,480; cd4% 32
aug08 cd4 576; vl 48,190; cd4% 40.7
dec08 cd4 559; vl 63,020; cd4% 29.4
feb09 cd4 464; vl 11,000; cd4% 26
may09 cd4 544; vl 29,710; cd4% 27.2
oct09 cd4 ...; vl 23,350; cd4% 31.6
mar10 cd4 408; vl 59,050; cd4% 31.4
aug10 cd4 328; vl 80,000; cd4% 19.3 STARTED ATRIPLA
oct10 cd4 423; vl 410 ;); cd4% 30.2
jun11 cd4 439; vl <20 ;); cd4% 33.8 <-Undetectable!
mar12 cd4 695; vl ud; cd4% 38.6
jan13 cd4 738; vl ud; cd4% 36.8
aug13 cd4 930; vl ud; cd4% 44.3
jan14 cd4 813; vl ud; cd4% 42.8
may14 cd4 783; vl *; cd4%43.5

Offline mjmel

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,069
Re: Lipo premeds or paranoia?
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2008, 02:04:29 PM »
thanks for the info. i guess i have another compelling reason to go to the gym (hot sweaty men being highly ranked).

oh, and this really sucks. i was hoping for a couple of years of slow hiv progression. yes i will start saving my pennies. i think there is  a clinic in mexico where i can get sculptra cheaper than in the us. i will look into that also. too many bills, too much hiv. its a fucked combo.

exercise and socks it is. hopefully a dishwasher some day also. hmm, i guess ill have to get some sole inserts too.

lastly, does it ever reverse? could meds possible slow or reverse the trend?

Exactly, it sucks in many ways as when it expresses itself in aberrations of ones physical appearance. (Normal is variable since there are so, so many body types and appearances.) There is a school of thought that says both being HIV+ and some of the HIV meds cause lipo. The thing is, it does seem to progress slower with these new, more updated meds. Also, Some have claimed that they do not experience wasting at all.

a headsup: Sculptra is not permanent. Sculptra is great for up to 2 yrs. then the body absorbs it. PMMA (Precise) is permanent. When you invest your money make it count.
Once you have wasting'' (fat loss) it may slow down considerably with meds however one does not 'regain' the loss of fat. One can add muscular bulk, however. That is, work hard to have a beefy, muscular bod. Lay the foundation when you're young, sweetie. Cause it's an extra pain in the butt once things go south.

Mike

Offline aztecan

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,404
  • 29 years positive, 57 years a pain in the butt
Re: Lipo premeds or paranoia?
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2008, 05:56:14 PM »
I agree with Mike, get muscular while your young. Once you get past 50, as I have, things go south on their own.

One thing though, Mike used the term wasting in his post. While lipoatrophy could make a person appear to be wasting away, it is not the same as AIDS-related wasting.

AIDS wasting is a whole other thing. I just wanted to make clear there is a difference.

HUGS,

Mark
"May your life preach more loudly than your lips."
~ William Ellery Channing (Unitarian Minister)

Offline mjmel

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,069
Re: Lipo premeds or paranoia?
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2008, 07:18:10 AM »
Thank you for the input, Mark. Yes, need to watch how I use that word *wasting*.

Mike
« Last Edit: February 25, 2008, 07:26:51 AM by mjmel »

Offline bobino

  • Member
  • Posts: 264
Re: Lipo premeds or paranoia?
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2008, 01:21:56 AM »

Let me chime in here and risk sounding like a broken record.  Yes, next2u, lipo can occur even when you're not on meds.  I've got lipo pretty bad, and I've never been on antiretrovirals. 

And although no one can diagnose you over the Internet, your symptoms sound almost exactly like mine.  I started to notice the fat loss around my eyes, and like you, at first I thought it was my imagination.  Same with the strange pains in my feet and the increased sensation in my hands.  Later on, it became unmistakable that I had lipo.

One small warning.  You can talk to your doctor about this, but you should not be surprised if he/she tells you you're imagining it.  My doctor told me I was imagining it.  Then later he told me I had probably just lost some weight.  Doctors don't understand lipo, so I think they tend to dismiss it.  Lipo may not be readily noticeable to other people, but remember that you know your face and body best. 

I say all this because I don't want you to end up in the situation I was in -- wondering whether I was losing my mind.  I was seeing fat loss but my doctor claimed he couldn't.  In the end, I was (unfortunately) right, but for a while there I was really questioning my own perception.  If you're seeing it, it's probably happening.

Last thing.  I agree completely with Mike.  If you're going to get filler, go for the permanent stuff.  I've wasted lots of money on Sculptra.  It isn't permanent and eventually fades.  Now I'm headed to Tijuana for PMMA treatment. 

Sorry to hear about your situation, but it's best to face it now before it gets too severe.  I wish you the best of luck.

John
Suivons les rivières
Gardons les torrents
Restons en colère
Soyons vigilants

 


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