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Author Topic: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?  (Read 14707 times)

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Offline milker

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I said "in the US". Why? Because I believe this is a US behavior and it includes people that identify themselves as African American and black people. I don't want this thread to be about African American vs Black, that's another thread..

I must miss something, but I do not understand why black people, in 2007, are for the most majority, celebrating God, as understood from the white christian people's faith.

I cannot understand how, people that have been subject to so much humiliation by the white people, follow the white people's God. This is unique to the United States. In Europe, and I think in other countries, correct me if I'm wrong, no black person that was submitted to such humiliation worships the white person's God.

I've looked around for an explanation, but I have not seen any discussion about this. Am I asking the wrong question? Is there something I'm missing?

I'd like this discussion to be open and not become a racial or faith story. This is a subject that has seriously interested me for many years.

Milker.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2008, 12:49:15 AM by milker »
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Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2008, 01:07:03 AM »
The black people I know are very devote Christians and I don't think they perceive Christianity to be a "white" religion in any way. Jesus Christ probably had dark skin anyway.

Now that I think about it I don't think I've met a black atheist, although I'm sure they are out there.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2008, 01:14:01 AM by GSOgymrat »

Offline milker

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2008, 01:32:42 AM »
Let me be clear. I do not question the faith. I question the fact that the faith is towards a christian God, given the burdens and suffering they have been through.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
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may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
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oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
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Offline SteveA

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2008, 01:38:02 AM »
Again, Christianity is not JUST a white man's religion! It may look like that now but it originated in a region of the world that most certainly was not completely white!

Offline sharkdiver

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2008, 01:48:30 AM »
um Milker
 
maybe you might reconsider the way you asked the question? Those are some big generalizations you have made.  Who are you asking?  Who is they? I understand you don't want this to be an issue of race or faith, but you already have. Do you know any history behind the origins of "christianity" and its spread and blending with other religions and cultures?

Offline VM-Bass

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2008, 02:00:00 AM »
Let me be clear. I do not question the faith. I question the fact that the faith is towards a christian God, given the burdens and suffering they have been through.

Milker.


I think it was exactly because of all the burdens and suffering they went through.  When they were treated so poorly, they were looking for anything that would offer them a way out of that life.  Christianity told them that if they believed in Christ as their Savior, then He would deliver them from their terrible life.  And their faith told them that it may not happen now, but even if they had to wait until they died, that one day their suffering would be over and a better life would be waiting for them.  Faith in whatever God you choose to believe in has a way of helping you through troubled times, and that's what slaves needed at the time. 

As a choir nerd, I sing spirituals that were born out of that era.  The majority of the songs are about deliverance, redemption, the afterlife being better than this one, etc.  The Christian faith offered them hope when they had none; the fact that it came from their oppressors eventually didn't matter. 

As a believer, my viewpoint is probably somewhat skewed, but I agree that it is an interesting subject.

And as others have said, Christianity started in a part of the world where the people definitely were not white.  To think that Jesus was white is just silly to me...even as a Christian I hate seeing all the portraits of him as a smiling white guy with all these perfect little white children around him.  But where that came from is probably another thread entirely... :) 
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Offline sharkdiver

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2008, 02:12:47 AM »


wrong web link   deleted
« Last Edit: February 08, 2008, 04:51:46 AM by sharkdiver »

Offline Queen Tokelove

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2008, 02:34:49 AM »
Good question. I wish I had an answer for you. I don't follow the Christian faith but I agree with those who said that from the area in which Jesus was raised, there is no way he could've been white. I think the Bible said something along the lines of his skin being bronze and hair like wool or something to that effect. I don't know any white person like that.
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Offline DCGUY2007

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2008, 02:36:09 AM »
Wow I never thought I would see a posting like this. I'm wondering what brought this question about. Anyway I agree with GSO response

"The black people I know are very devote Christians and I don't think they perceive Christianity to be a "white" religion in any way. Jesus Christ probably had dark skin anyway."

The problem is that whomever is the dominating culture changes the images of Jesus. Jesus was obviously much darker than what is potrayed just like many of the images of Egyptians we see in movies don't potray authentic dark Egyptians. . In my opinion African Americans are still christians because they truly believe what the bible teaches , love your neighbor as yourself, forgiveness, etc. All great qualities if applied by humans. I think what blacks look at when being a christian is the good qualities Jesus potrayed. They aren't worshiping a white God. Actually in some African American households they have a picture of Jesus as a black man. But all that aside it is the message that African Americans believe in.

Then again asking that question is like asking why do some white people get collagen in their lips to make them fuller, butt implants,tan their skin, and perm their hair (features attributed to blacks) when some of them don't like blacks. And why do some blacks straighten their hair and have cosmetic surgery when some of them don't like white people.

I have to wonder sometimes what we would talk about if all of us looked exactly alike. Some days I wish it would happen. Just make every human a bright green color, the exact same height, eye color, hair, same language etc.

« Last Edit: February 08, 2008, 02:40:14 AM by DCGUY2007 »

Offline SteveA

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2008, 02:44:35 AM »
Here is an interesting website


https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/

I'd encourage you to look at it and take the test

I took the gay test. Guess what? I prefer gay people.

Offline 404error

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2008, 03:53:17 AM »
Quote
Jesus Christ probably had dark skin anyway.

Jesus definitely had dark skin.  He was at least as brown as the Prophet Muhammad.  He was a semite from Bethlehem, people who aren't exactly known for their nordic pigmentation and bone structure.  What I don't get is why Black americans would abandon their "slave" names to take up a muslim name?  Muslims enslaved Africans and stripped them of their respective religions just as the White christians did... At the end of the day religion is a fat crock of shit, a tool used to prey upon the weak.  Why can't people just believe in themselves?
A social critic who promotes equality...

Offline sharkdiver

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2008, 04:04:16 AM »
hey Milker

you might want to do some research into Afro-Cuban Diaspora to follow the assimilation of west african religions into Catholicism and into present day belief systems

Sharkie

Offline sharkdiver

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2008, 04:47:50 AM »
oops wait a second

 cancel the website link... wrong one
it was supposed to be tied to the diaspora content   
   
sorry about that everyone 

sharkie
« Last Edit: February 08, 2008, 04:55:57 AM by sharkdiver »

Offline dvinemstre

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2008, 07:21:08 AM »
welllll, Americans seem to be the only ones who think Christianity is a white religion. I mean my jesus looks like Mel Gibson in Braveheart, but I know he was black...as were many of the early Christian "fathers" of the faith, and mothers. American's have done a beautiful job with allowing "free church " traditions which have no touchstone of orthodoxy and have inculcated a notion of the blue eyed, light hair, light skin Jesus. I read this week that geneticists now believe all blue eyed people have one common past ancestor...hmmmm...so what does that say about the blue eyed Jesus...the whole skin tone litmus test is American to the core...and the religious aspects are related to slavery and being taken to church and actually seeing there might be some truth there in spite of all the other BS.

i have met any number of atheists from all races, creeds, etc.

thanks, Z

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2008, 07:55:16 AM »
In Europe, and I think in other countries, correct me if I'm wrong, no black person that was submitted to such humiliation worships the white person's God.

You certainly are wrong Milker. Christianity, spread by missionaries, continues to be one of the fastest growing religions on the continent of Africa. They worship the same God in Kenyatta that they do in Mobile and the same bible that condoned slavery. Go figure. Don't forget Christianity was spread to the new world via Europe. Course you might want to ask why homosexuals would worship this same bible?

I think an HIV forum might not be your best venue in trying to seek an answer. The answer you will always get is that it is a matter of faith that defies logic. Try arguing evolution with a creationist.

Don't you know any black folks Milker?


Offline jack

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2008, 08:14:23 AM »
Those who have faith believe,those who dont dont.. Color is of no matter,except to media and racists who want to keep blacks on the their political plantation(clintons and dems).  Most believers do not care what color God is or even consider it. God is God. Geez!
Artists throughout the ages have depicted God and Jesus as white,but that is just because the artist is white. Who gives a fuck? No one that I know,except the media.

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2008, 08:23:13 AM »
except to media and racists who want to keep blacks on the their political plantation(clintons and dems). 

There's your answer. It's the Clintons and you racist democrats. Boy, that didn't take long.

Anywho, here's the definitive answer on whether Jesus was black or not. At least the answer that all you homosexuals will be able to understand.

Thank God whitey can always explain what the black man is thinking.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icrUkBaSefs

Offline komnaes

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2008, 08:38:00 AM »
The Jesus I worship these days is definitely black and from Brazil... ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBQGKIr2vDU
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Offline milker

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2008, 11:40:49 AM »
Thank you for the great responses! Gives me lots of information.

First of all, trying to convey what I want to say in a forum title is not the easiest, so I appreciate that the responses were not some rant about religion or racism. Why did I ask there? Because I looked for the answer for a long time, and couldn't find a forum where this was discussed seriously. I know there are people from all races, genders, and faiths on here, so I thought, well why not ask here!

Although this question has been in my mind for some good amount of time, I was watching American Lives 2 yesterday on PBS, a great document about African American roots, and this question about God came back to me.

I also say white God, but I realize I wanted to say a "White religion". I know that Christianity is all over the earth, but the missions were originally white, and imposed on people. In the case of African Americans, it seems that if it was imposed, they could have rejected it when they gained freedom.

There was a very interesting part in this documentary about gaining freedom. I learned that many slaves didn't "enjoy" freedom, since they now didn't have work, no money, etc. What I'm wondering is when this switch to the "white religion" came into place. At that time?

Maybe I sound a bit candid, and maybe you have good links or books to suggest.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline Cliff

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2008, 05:15:12 PM »
Milker,

I don't understand where you coming from with any of this.  You're making a lot of incorrect generalisation for a whole heap of folks.  You're making some incorrect generalisations about a religion as well.  And why is this a black issue for you?  What about other nonwhite races that are Christians?  Is that OK for you?  If so, why?

And I don't see what you mean about Blacks in Europe or in other countries would never worship a white religion?  What black people are you talking about?  Cause I certainly see loads of black Christians in Europe.  Or do you think that many of them aren't descendants of slaves?  How about in Central and South America?  The Carribean?  I hope you don't believe that only the US was impacted by slavery.

BTW, the spread of Christianity meant that it was forced upon "white" people, just as it was forced upon other races.  It didn't start in Europe.  It started among a Jewish sect in the Middle East and grew to become the largest religion in the world....mostly by violence.

I cringe when people (especially white people) start a sentence with "why do black people..." it almost always ends up with some condescending, ignorant and overreaching comment.  This thread being no exception.

Offline pozniceguy

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2008, 05:24:09 PM »
As Far as the "slaves " in  the USA  are involved I think part of an answer may  lay in the situations the slaves were kept in...in most cases they were not educated or allowed to be educated so the minimal contact they were allowed was "church" and Bible readings....the few that were allowed to learn first learned by reading Bible passages....many "lessons" are sprinkled in the Bible.....some practical and some philosophical....but all were related to the "teachings of Jesus"...so I don't find it difficult to see how easily that situation  transferred into an "acceptance of the white church"...it was one of the few outlets allowed to them from the daily work
Typically even the hardest masters were "Christians" who allowed the slaves to sing "bible songs" and have services with a minister...
BTW  there were other "slaves" in America,   the indentured servants of the colonists were essentially "sold" to their masters...many Native Americans (Indians) were used as "slaves" in the early West..either sold  to Ranchers or "kept" in reservations...and of course the   Explorers from England,France, Italy and Portugal were not above taking a few locals as "slaves" for various purposes......usually as some sort of forced labor..  interesting to note that when the Explorers traveled to these various parts they always had a "priest" with them and usually claimed the "land and people" in the name of the church/King  ( who ruled by Divine Right)

Nick
« Last Edit: February 08, 2008, 05:34:07 PM by pozniceguy »
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Offline Dachshund

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2008, 05:30:56 PM »
I must miss something, but I do not understand why black people, in 2007, are for the most majority, celebrating God, as understood from the white christian people's faith.

Milker isn't asking about history, he's asking about now. He'd be better off strolling into the closest black church and asking them.

Offline thunter34

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2008, 05:34:07 PM »
I can't help but wonder if some water has been turning into wine somewhere lately.

Seriously.  This thread is baffling, milker.
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Offline RapidRod

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2008, 06:28:44 PM »
I'm baffled by the topic, but as I was always told, God is of NO color.

Offline Snowangel

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2008, 06:49:10 PM »
I don't understand the question.  I believe in a God or a Higher Power but religion is right up there with politics for me right now.  I have seen too many "church people" backstab during the week and try to make up for it by kissing as on Sunday.  If your a God fearing person shouldn't it be 24/7?
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2008, 07:12:28 PM »
I refuse to get involved in this thread.

Jesus in black in Ethiopia.  He became white in Byzantine times.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2008, 07:15:39 PM by philly267 »
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Offline thunter34

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2008, 07:31:41 PM »
I refuse to get involved in this thread.

...he says

Jesus in black in Ethiopia.  He became white in Byzantine times.

...becoming involved.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2008, 07:38:47 PM »
facked you out, Timmy
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline thunter34

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2008, 07:45:49 PM »
facked you out, Timmy

oooh.....i love to get properly facked.    :P
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Cliff

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2008, 07:49:48 PM »
I had a vision.  This is what Jesus looked like. 



Or did massa tell me that.  I's a forgets.

Offline Winiroo

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2008, 07:53:11 PM »
My first thought was that religion and faith is passed down from generation to generation. The rituals and beliefs can be comforting and reassuring for some and based on that notion slaves who have been raised christian would continue with their religious practices.

Another thought. Back in those times Christianity was a huge part of American society. If you didn't attend church or appear to be a "proper" christian you would likely have trouble.



Offline Queen Tokelove

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #31 on: February 08, 2008, 07:53:56 PM »
My, my, my....I'm not sure where this is going either honestly. Religion, no matter which one you follow shouldn't be a matter of race but a person's faith. I don't think any particular religion is the perfect one but it is a matter of what works for the individual. But I have to ask, what is the fascination in Blacks following Christianity? I am half black but follow a Wiccan or Pagan path. Not that anyone cares but just saying....LMAO@Cliff.....
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Offline RapidRod

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #32 on: February 08, 2008, 07:55:12 PM »
I had a vision.  This is what Jesus looked like. 



Or did massa tell me that.  I's a forgets.

ROFL Cliff you nut.   :D

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #33 on: February 08, 2008, 07:55:51 PM »
Jesus is Dominican... it's a known fact.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline Winiroo

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #34 on: February 08, 2008, 07:56:48 PM »
Isn't it black history month?  

Offline ademas

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #35 on: February 08, 2008, 07:59:07 PM »
that was pretty damn hilarious, Cliff.

I'm baffled by this thread, too.

Offline Queen Tokelove

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #36 on: February 08, 2008, 08:00:06 PM »
Is it just me or Cliff's Jesus looks a little pissed off? What? Jesus is Dominican? Then it is not Jesus but Heysus....LMAO....And yep, Winiroo, it is black history month...Figures the blacks would get the shortest month of the year even though it is a leap year.... :-\
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Offline Cliff

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #37 on: February 08, 2008, 08:03:52 PM »
Jesus is Dominican... it's a known fact.
Which probably explains why you were down on your knees every Sunday.

Offline Winiroo

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #38 on: February 08, 2008, 08:04:01 PM »
Is it just me or Cliff's Jesus looks a little pissed off? What? Jesus is Dominican? Then it is not Jesus but Heysus....LMAO....And yep, Winiroo, it is black history month...Figures the blacks would get the shortest month of the year even though it is a leap year.... :-\

LOL

Gut instinct said to type "teach me, oh black one."

Fear said "Dont write it, someone will be offended"






Offline Queen Tokelove

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #39 on: February 08, 2008, 08:09:24 PM »
LOL

Gut instinct said to type "teach me, oh black one."

Fear said "Dont write it, someone will be offended"



LMAO@Winiroo....Never fear your Queen is here.... ;D
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Offline RapidRod

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #40 on: February 08, 2008, 08:09:48 PM »


DOES IT MATTER? IT DOESN'T TO ME!!!
« Last Edit: February 08, 2008, 08:14:22 PM by RapidRod »

Offline allopathicholistic

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #41 on: February 08, 2008, 08:10:52 PM »
Which probably explains why you were down on your knees every Sunday.

:D ROFL Cliff, you must be butter tonight because you're on a roll

Offline Queen Tokelove

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #42 on: February 08, 2008, 08:19:19 PM »
:D ROFL Cliff, you must be butter tonight because you're on a roll

Can I get a hearty Amen!!!!
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Offline milker

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #43 on: February 08, 2008, 08:35:48 PM »
When a thread talks about religion and race, you can expect everything, but I know that the majority of people on here try to step back, relax, and look at the original question without automatically thinking that I'm a racist or that I despise religion. This is also why i'm asking here, and not in black or religious forums and I would like to have a melting pot of answers to guide me, rather than just going to the church and ask there.

"why do blacks" I ask? Because that's the topic I'm interested in. I'm not asking why do whites try to dance like blacks, this is another topic, maybe.

I think Queen may have said in a very short sentence what i'm trying to ask: what is the fascination in Blacks following Christianity, and I'm asking specifically about African Americans because of the specific background, the slavery in the US of A. I know there are very faithful black christians all over Africa and around the world, but this is not the question.

Maybe some of you think the question shouldn't even be asked because the answer is obvious, some of you are "baffled" that I even ask. Well I'm sorry but I do not know the answer to the question, and I'm really seriously asking.

I saw a number of responses saying that the color of the Christ doesn't matter. I agree, but what makes someone follow this particular religion, when it was imposed on him or her, and particularly at a very difficult time? That's what baffles me and I've never really understood.

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Offline jabez

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #44 on: February 08, 2008, 11:43:00 PM »
Milker, I believe you have to look a LOT further back into history to answer your questions. 

As I'm sure you know from church or from your Western Civilization classes in school, Chrisitianity is a religion that developed in Africa -- specifically, in the Jerusalem area of the Palestine province in the northern part of the African continent, approximately two thousand years ago.   The religion was originally a faith of the lost and the downtrodden.  It was a religion of fishermen, tax collectors, prostitutes, and lepers.  The founder (Jesus) compared the "kingdom of God" to a feast or banquet, which was attended by beggars, losers, and homeless people.  In fact, in Jesus' parables, a rich man (God) threw a big feast, and he sent his messengers all around the countryside, beating the bushes and inviting EVERYONE to his banquet.

The early Christians described their new religion as being holy and "catholic".  Catholic is a word that means "universal" -- open to everyone, regardless of their race or ethnic background.  The New Testament tells us that the early Christians included Jewish people, Roman citizens, and Ethopians.  Some of the Christians were slaves, while others were free.  They were of different nationalities, spoke different languages, and were from a variety of different cultures.  They had one thing in common -- their belief that a certain Middle Eastern man (Jesus) was the son of God.    Their goal (which they stated several times in the letters of the apostles) was to spread their message throughout the whole world, so that all the inhibitants of the earth would hear about this "kingdom of God". 

This modern concept of Christianity being a "white man's religion" would have undoubtedly shocked and horrified the early Christians -- none of whom were very "white".   In fact, this whole business about a "white man's God" and a "Black man's God" is exactly what Chrisitianity was trying to get AWAY from.

When Christianity eventually found its way into mainstream Europe (and later into mainstream America), I suppose it became more of a "suburban white religion" and less of the renegade faith that it started out being.  But that is a gross generalization that has never held entirely true in the USA.  If you've ever studied the civil rights movement in the Southern part of the United States, you will see that priests and nuns were often at the forefront of registering Blacks to vote and helping Blacks to become integrated into all-white schools and universities. 

In the biography of Malcolm X, he raises the same question that you have raised in this post:  why do YOU, as a Black man, want to belong to a religion that worships a blond-haired, blue-eyed Jesus? 

Other leaders from that same time frame (the 1950s and 1960s) offered a completely different message:  why do you, as a Black man, want to return to a more segregated religion (Islam) instead of helping to reform the faith (Christianity) that was originally intended to be an integrated, all-inclusive religion? 

Even then, in the 1950s and 1960s, there was a "religious right" and a "religious left" in the Christian USA.  On the extreme right, there were people of faith who wanted to keep their schools and churches and voting booths completely segregated.  On the left, there were people of faith who dedicated their lives to integrating schools and churches and voting booths, because that is the way they envisioned Christianity and, therefore, society in general. 

Throughout the modern age, there have been Black people and White people who have tried to keep Christianity "catholic" and inclusive -- and there have been others who have tried to keep it segregated.  I believe that the Ku Klux Klan sprang from the Christian church.  So did Martin Luther King, Jr.   Polar opposites, with completely different messages. 

A while back, I was reading a sociology book written by Father Andrew Greely, a novelist who penned several bestsellers in the 1980s and 1990s.  Greely pointed out that in the Catholic church (the area of Christianity with which he's most familiar), comings and goings in the church can be a matter of social change as much as religious change.  He feels that in America, second and third generation immigrants tend to work their way AWAY from the Catholic church, to become more "protestant" (and therefore, more "white" in the perception of their neighbors.)  He feels that Blacks sometimes unite with the Catholic church in order to become more integrated into a colorblind community of faith than they might otherwise encounter in the Missionary Baptist churches, the Colored Methodist-Episcopal churches, or the Church of God in Christ.   He says that this is a very complex issue that can't easily be explained without closely studying the family background, financial status, and other socio-economic issues of a person who changes religion. 

All of this is to say that your question is very complex, and probably can't be answered very easily on a message board, and the answer has to consider literally 2000 years of social and religious history in Africa, Europe, and the United States.   There are people who have spent their whole lives studying religion, race, and economics, and not many of them would agree on why a certain person chooses a certain religion. 

I'm sure this ain't much help, but I hope it sheds a little bit of light on the subject, and I hope that you've found a blow-job ninja.             
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Offline Queen Tokelove

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #45 on: February 09, 2008, 12:48:55 AM »
LMFAO when I saw this: ""why do blacks" I ask? Because that's the topic I'm interested in. I'm not asking why do whites try to dance like blacks, this is another topic, maybe."

It's good to see you have a sense of humor. And I don't think you are being racist. Let me give you an example of how I was suckered into Christianity. And even though I am half Puerto Rican, I was raised as and mostly around blacks. My family belonged to the local baptist church here. I was raised to go to it faithfully every Sunday, sang in the choir and followed Bible Study every week. But I went to Catholic schools. Talk about extremes. As I got older and started taking religion a bit more seriously, my family church and many other black church began to piss me off. Why? Because it became more of a gossip mill and less of a church. Sprinkle a few smuts in the congregation but the biggest whore ended up being the damn pastor. That did it for me. Then I turned my attention to the Catholic religion, went through all their rituals, prayers, and confessions. I had issues with a few of their teachings and I felt that confession was a bunch of bull to say the least. But I always thought their paintings and statues were cool.. ;) For a moment I felt kind of lost because I am not a believer of Darwin. I started doing some reading here and there from Scientology to Wiccan. And even with that, I do not call myself Wiccan per se but Pagan or more specific an eclectic Pagan. I incorporate a few Pagan religions into my lifestyle, not just one. And after shaking down the family tree a bit, I found out there were other family members that followed a Pagan path as well.

So, there ya go. I hope, insightful view, if not, a good story at least, from a half black and half puerto rican female.... :-*


« Last Edit: February 09, 2008, 12:51:58 AM by Queen Akasha »
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Offline milker

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #46 on: February 09, 2008, 01:31:27 AM »
jabez, I can only say WOW

This is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you so much for your post, very insightful, very interesting. This gives me much to study and learn.

Queen, your experience is also very interesting. I'm not sure about the paintings and statues being cool but that made me laugh :) I am glad you took this thread seriously and answered with your heart. Thank you so much too.

Milker.
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Offline Cliff

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #47 on: February 09, 2008, 02:56:28 AM »
look at the original question without automatically thinking that I'm a racist or that I despise religion.
No one accused you of being racist or hating religion in this thread.  Perhaps you should step back and read the responses without automatically assuming that because some find it silly, generalizing or even offensive, that you must be racist or hate God.
"why do blacks" I ask? Because that's the topic I'm interested in. I'm not asking why do whites try to dance like blacks, this is another topic, maybe.
Milker, why exactly are you seriously interested in this topic?  Perhaps if you explain that, more people will take it seriously.  And what research have you done on this topic, prior to asking in the forum? 

I think Queen may have said in a very short sentence what i'm trying to ask: what is the fascination in Blacks following Christianity, and I'm asking specifically about African Americans because of the specific background, the slavery in the US of A. I know there are very faithful black christians all over Africa and around the world, but this is not the question.
Why is that not the question?  If this was a serious topic for you, it seems like that would be logical extension of the question.  Plus your original thread says this on the matter…

[I cannot understand how, people that have been subject to so much humiliation by the white people, follow the white people's God. This is unique to the United States. In Europe, and I think in other countries, correct me if I'm wrong, no black person that was submitted to such humiliation worships the white person's God.] Please explain this comment...

I saw a number of responses saying that the color of the Christ doesn't matter. I agree, but what makes someone follow this particular religion, when it was imposed on him or her, and particularly at a very difficult time? That's what baffles me and I've never really understood.
Religion is imposed on everyone, Milker.  No one is given a choice, regardless of race or religion and regardless of the historical context that the religion was brought into the community (ages ago).  People are forced to follow their parent's God, until they are old enough to make their own choices...and most will continue down that path.  And some, like the Queen, will follow a radically different path (or no path at all).  If people should reject a religion because it was forced upon their ancestors, then you should question why doesn't most of the world reject Christianity (or Islam).  It (they) didn't spread all over the world by throwing fabulous tea parties.

Chrisitianity is a religion that developed in Africa -- specifically, in the Jerusalem area of the Palestine province in the northern part of the African continent
??? Palestine isn't in Africa.  It's in Asia.  The Middle East.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2008, 03:07:24 AM by Cliff »

Offline Queen Tokelove

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #48 on: February 09, 2008, 03:04:11 AM »
Queen, your experience is also very interesting. I'm not sure about the paintings and statues being cool but that made me laugh :) I am glad you took this thread seriously and answered with your heart. Thank you so much too.
Milker.

Well, sweetie, all I can offer is my experience considering I have never took up theology, is it? The reason I say the paintings and statues were cool because there is a church here called St. Patrick's (I attended the grade school) and the statues kind of looked like they came out of the wall and so very life like. And I thought my experience was pertaining to your question, honestly....*pouts* I wanted to give you at least one black perspective, well, ok, half... ;)

*winks@Cliff*....First time someone has called me radical, not that I mind but I do dare to be different, that's for sure.
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Offline jabez

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #49 on: February 09, 2008, 03:26:11 AM »
Palestine isn't in Africa.  It's in Asia.  The Middle East.

Yep, I guess Sinai (rather than Palestine) would about be the boundary between north Africa & southwest Asia.  My bad. 
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Offline milker

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #50 on: February 09, 2008, 02:20:00 PM »
No one accused you of being racist or hating religion in this thread.  Perhaps you should step back and read the responses without automatically assuming that because some find it silly, generalizing or even offensive, that you must be racist or hate God.
That's exactly what i'm saying. I knew that people on here wouldn't jump on this thread and start accusing me of racism without first understanding what i'm asking.

Milker, why exactly are you seriously interested in this topic?  Perhaps if you explain that, more people will take it seriously.  And what research have you done on this topic, prior to asking in the forum? 
This subject is something that has always been in my mind. Rather than making this a fact, I was interested to know how this faith in Christianity grew from the slaves. Jabez gave me very good points that I didn't think of. I couldn't go to sleep last night because I was thinking what he wrote and I was making more sense of the situation now that I have more pointers to work with.

I have looked for answers in books, forums, and some PBS shows about African American roots. Most of what I found either degenerated into bad discussions or didn't really go deep into how the faith grew during slavery.

Interestingly enough, what Malcom X is asking is not what I'm asking. When I said "white God" i was thinking about the white people's God, not the color of God.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
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mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
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Offline John2038

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #51 on: February 09, 2008, 02:45:15 PM »
In the minds of the African people, as for us, God is not more the God of the White than the Black:
God has created the Man of all races. He's is the God of all of us (Old Testament).

The same question arises with all other religions.
The Bible has reached every continents, and with, all the races.

At the end, Christianity, is born in the region of the Jourdan (New Testament).
But it is now practiced in Europe and elsewhere in the World.
Why not only by the Arabs or the Hebrew ?
Because God is the God of all of us.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2008, 03:36:48 PM by John2038 »

Offline thunter34

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #52 on: February 09, 2008, 02:48:32 PM »
At the end, Christianity, is born in the region of the Jourdan.
But it is now practice in Europe and elsewhere. Why not only by the Arabs or the Hebrew ?
Because God is the God of all of us.


Yeah.  Take that, Muslims and Jews!   :P
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Offline John2038

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #53 on: February 09, 2008, 02:50:12 PM »
thunter34, what you mean ?
Nothing ?
« Last Edit: February 09, 2008, 03:05:14 PM by John2038 »

Offline John2038

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #54 on: February 09, 2008, 02:53:49 PM »
Milker, for a Christian/Protestant/Jew/Orthodox/.., God have created the Man at His Image, but never the Bible has mention that God have a color. God is just everywhere..
« Last Edit: February 09, 2008, 03:04:40 PM by John2038 »

Offline John2038

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #55 on: February 09, 2008, 03:23:57 PM »
As I'm sure you know from church or from your Western Civilization classes in school, Christianity is a religion that developed in Africa -- specifically, in the Jerusalem area of the Palestine province in the northern part of the African continent, approximately two thousand years ago.

Let's start from the Old Testament which says (the root of the Christianity):
We all are the descendant of Adam and Eve. Black or White, Yellow or Green..

« Last Edit: February 09, 2008, 04:38:47 PM by John2038 »

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #56 on: February 09, 2008, 04:59:43 PM »
Let's start from the Old Testament which says (the root of the Christianity):
We all are the descendant of Adam and Eve. Black or White, Yellow or Green..




John the old testament also condones slavery and stoning a person to death for adultery.


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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #57 on: February 09, 2008, 05:18:12 PM »
John the old testament also condones slavery and stoning a person to death for adultery.

No (Genesis 9-18 to 27) ..

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #58 on: February 09, 2008, 05:22:14 PM »
No (Genesis 9-18 to 27) ..


Why shouldn't black folk have equal rights when it comes to believing in fairy tales?

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #59 on: February 09, 2008, 05:28:53 PM »
No (Genesis 9-18 to 27) ..


 Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed.  If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful.  You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts.  Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them.  (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #60 on: February 09, 2008, 05:33:26 PM »
Are you ok Dachshund ?

What is your point ?



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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #61 on: February 09, 2008, 05:36:31 PM »
Are you ok Dachshund ?

What is your point ?




Just quoting the bible John. This is from Genesis.

Noah, a man of the soil, was the first to plant a vineyard.  He drank some of the wine and became drunk, and he lay uncovered in his tent.  And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brothers outside.  Then Shem and Japheth took a garment, laid it on both their shoulders, and walked backward and covered the nakedness of their father; their faces were turned away, and they did not see their father's nakedness.  When Noah awoke from his wine and knew what his youngest son had done to him, he said, "Cursed be Canaan; lowest of slaves shall he be to his brothers."  He also said, "Blessed by the Lord my God be Shem; and let Canaan be his slave.  May God make space for Japheth, and let him live in the tents of Shem; and let Canaan be his slave."   (Genesis 9:20-27 NRSV)

Offline milker

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #62 on: February 09, 2008, 05:38:20 PM »
i don't think the latest exchanges will go anywhere and that was not the purpose of this thread.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
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oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
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Offline thunter34

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #63 on: February 09, 2008, 05:40:34 PM »
No (Genesis 9-18 to 27) ..


Um...yes.  Ephesians 6:5

5 Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ; 6 not by way of eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart. 7 With good will render service, as to the Lord, and not to men, 8 knowing that whatever good thing each one does, this he will receive back from the Lord, whether slave or free.


EDIT:  I see this was already posted.  Never mind!  Thread's all yours, Milker X !

EDIT 2:  Oops...nope.  That was another passage condoning slavery.  And why wouldn't this be part of the thread, Milker?  Isn't that the whole point of your asking? 

Yipes!  I'm getting sucked into this thread!  I hate this thread.  I'm outta here! 

« Last Edit: February 09, 2008, 05:44:12 PM by thunter34 »
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Offline John2038

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #64 on: February 09, 2008, 05:45:35 PM »
Dachshund
What do you want to demonstrate. I have mention this part of the Genesis as well.

Noah was a man.

And man is sinful and separated from God:
"All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23)
This include Noah.
Since Adam and Eve already, men are sinful.

Jesus Christ is God's only provision for man sin. He Died in our place.
"God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while were yet sinners, Christ died for us" ( Romans 5:8 )

So men have been forgiven since.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2008, 05:48:03 PM by John2038 »

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #65 on: February 09, 2008, 05:47:44 PM »
So John since you seem to believe in a literal translation of the bible what's your take on this?

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death.  (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Offline thunter34

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #66 on: February 09, 2008, 05:48:25 PM »
Jesus Christ is God's only provision for man sin. He Died in our place.
"God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while were yet sinners, Christ died for us" ( Romans 5:8 )


Oh, hell...I can't resist.

Again, I say:  Take that, Jews and Muslims!

 :P
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Offline John2038

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #67 on: February 09, 2008, 05:51:08 PM »
thunter34
I feel sorry for you. You can't express yourself in another way than the way you do: meaningless.
Either you have arguments, either you don't talk. Otherwise, you will appears just like a troll.

Dachshund
Again Christ Died in our place so men have been forgiven by God.

Offline thunter34

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #68 on: February 09, 2008, 05:54:27 PM »
Is anyone else befuddled by the point I'm making?
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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #69 on: February 09, 2008, 05:54:58 PM »
And why wouldn't this be part of the thread, Milker?  Isn't that the whole point of your asking? 
Of course the contents of the books are to be taken into account, but my question was more general and I didn't want to start arguing about each line of the books, which is what I see starting to happen. That kind of discussion goes nowhere in a thread and gets heated fast.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
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mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
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may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

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Offline Dachshund

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #70 on: February 09, 2008, 05:59:04 PM »
Sorry John but you can't have it both ways. If you're going to throw bible quotes at us to try and prove your point fine. It's convienient of you to ignore the verses I quote because you can't defend them.

So John I ask again do you believe the bible is the living word of God?

Offline thunter34

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #71 on: February 09, 2008, 06:00:50 PM »
Of course the contents of the books are to be taken into account, but my question was more general and I didn't want to start arguing about each line of the books, which is what I see starting to happen. That kind of discussion goes nowhere in a thread and gets heated fast.

Milker.

So you wanted to ask, in the most lukewarm manner possible, about "why are black people" believing "in the white christian God" - in view of the tainted history of slavery in the US....but without bringing slavery-specific Biblical verse into the conversation?
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Offline Dachshund

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #72 on: February 09, 2008, 06:04:06 PM »
Your God John commands you murder someone who practices another religion. Seems a little harsh don't you think? But let me get this straight. It's cool if I kill a Hindu because God commands it and since he croaked for my sins I won't have to worry about it?

 1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him.  Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you.  You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery.  And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst.  (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #73 on: February 09, 2008, 06:11:50 PM »
So you wanted to ask, in the most lukewarm manner possible, about "why are black people" believing "in the white christian God" - in view of the tainted history of slavery in the US....but without bringing slavery-specific Biblical verse into the conversation?
Yes. It's like asking why some homosexuals are Christians. I think Jabez demonstrated very well that this has to do with the power of faith. I think that every individual can find a verse that he or she may not completely agree with. This doesn't make them unable to follow the overall word of God.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline thunter34

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #74 on: February 09, 2008, 06:13:11 PM »
Of course the contents of the books are to be taken into account, but my question was more general and I didn't want to start arguing about each line of the books, which is what I see starting to happen. That kind of discussion goes nowhere in a thread and gets heated fast.

Milker.

Argh.  The truth is that I shouldn't be posting much of anything in this thread because I think it's another wretched little exercise of your's, Millker.  You always - ALWAYS - do this:  Post some broad, far-reaching, way over generalized and potentially inflammatory OP, then spend the rest of the time saying, "I'm not asking this" and "it shouldn't be that"...etc.  

When the truth is that I suspect you've been hitting the sauce and just got the itch to post the next great controversial thread.

I mean, seriously...you couldn't sleep last night tossing and turning your mind over the issue of "the black man" worshipping "the white man's God"?  And you DIDN'T expect this to go anywhere offensive?  SRSLY?

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Offline Dachshund

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #75 on: February 09, 2008, 06:16:06 PM »
Yes. It's like asking why some homosexuals are Christians. I think Jabez demonstrated very well that this has to do with the power of faith. I think that every individual can find a verse that he or she may not completely agree with. This doesn't make them unable to follow the overall word of God.

Milker.

Well then why the hell did you ask if you already had your answer?

Offline John2038

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #76 on: February 09, 2008, 06:22:37 PM »
Dachshund,

The Bible has been written by the men.
The Bible is made of different text, written by different people at different time in the History (and not necessarily at the same time of the events).
We also know that they was some pressure made on the scribe who wrote the Bible, so the Bible might not reflect the truth.
The theology is a living science.

In between, what we can be sure, is that Christ Died in our place so men have been forgiven by God.
And that as long as you recognize sincerely Jesus as your Saviour, your sins will be forgiven.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2008, 08:35:43 PM by John2038 »

Offline John2038

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #77 on: February 09, 2008, 06:29:10 PM »
Milker,

Black people consider the Bible as inspired by God, and not by the White.

Offline milker

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #78 on: February 09, 2008, 06:31:08 PM »
Argh.  The truth is that I shouldn't be posting much of anything in this thread because I think it's another wretched little exercise of your's, Millker.  You always - ALWAYS - do this:  Post some broad, far-reaching, way over generalized and potentially inflammatory OP, then spend the rest of the time saying, "I'm not asking this" and "it shouldn't be that"...etc. 

When the truth is that I suspect you've been hitting the sauce and just got the itch to post the next great controversial thread.

I mean, seriously...you couldn't sleep last night tossing and turning your mind over the issue of "the black man" worshipping "the white man's God"?  And you DIDN'T expect this to go anywhere offensive?  SRSLY?


I'm not the best at expressing exactly what I'm asking, that's true, that's why I constantly try to refocus. I guess what you're saying is that I'm too general in my questions and I should take more time to think about it so that it is better focused to start with. The problem is that with this topic, there are so many things to think about, I mean there is religion, slavery, and we're talking about thing that have been happening for thousands of years. It's not an easy topic to focus, and so when I see answers that go beyond what I'm trying to understand, that's where I say "that's not what i'm asking". Sorry if I'm confusing, but this is definitely not an exercise to see how many answers i'll get before the thread will be locked, contrary to what you seem to think about my intentions. I hope you don't think the same thing about the thread about crating that I left a few minutes ago in off topic.

Daschund, I didn't have that answer before reading Jabez's.

You know, there are topics that may be so obvious to you that you are all wondering why the hell is he asking this, it's so simple? Well sometimes the simple answer is so simple that you can't see it until someone points it to you.

John, thanks for your answer. It didn't seem so simple to me, as I just explained, but now I understand better.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #79 on: February 09, 2008, 06:31:53 PM »
We also know that they was some pressure made on the scribe who wrote the Bible, so the Bible might not reflect the truth.

Well maybe you should remember that John the next time you jump into a thread and start quoting scriptures that even you admit are infallible.

So you can't believe the bible, but you can be damn sure Jesus died for your sins. Convenient.

Offline thunter34

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #80 on: February 09, 2008, 06:32:17 PM »
Dachshund,

The Bible has been written by the men.
The Bible is made of different text, written by different people at different time in the History (and not necessarily at the same time of the events).
We also know that they was some pressure made on the scribe who wrote the Bible, so the Bible might not reflect the truth.
The theology is a living science.

In between, what we can be sure, is that Christ Died in our place so men have been forgiven by God.
And that as long as you recognize sincerely Jesus as your Saviour, your sins will be forgiven.

The key point is to believe in Jesus, and that Jesus Died in our place.
And Christ have been sent to the Earth because of the sins of the men.

quoted for LULZ

Summary:  "This origins of this text are highly dubious, and there is a strong likelihood of bullshit.

But the important thing is to believe it!"

Classic.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2008, 06:37:22 PM by thunter34 »
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Offline John2038

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #81 on: February 09, 2008, 06:37:37 PM »
Dachshund,

God gives men the choices all along their life.
If the Bible was so obvious, there won't be choices.

The faith is above the Bible itself. Its a relationship with God.
The Bible is just a way to reach God. This way is not perfect, because it has been written by men, and men have sins.

You might also think: where do you was before you born. Where will you be after ? How do you came in between ?
Or things like: This is an atom. It has 1 proton, 1 neutron and 1 electron. Where is the soul ? The love ? The thinking ? in it ?
Etc.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2008, 06:42:20 PM by John2038 »

Offline thunter34

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #82 on: February 09, 2008, 06:40:20 PM »
Where is the soul ? The love ? The thinking ? in it ?
Etc.

I've just been asking myself those very questions about this whole thread. 
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Offline Dachshund

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #83 on: February 09, 2008, 06:49:52 PM »
Dachshund,

God gives men the choices all along their life.
If the Bible was so obvious, there won't be choices.

The faith is above the Bible itself. Its a relationship with God.
The Bible is just a way to reach God. This way is not perfect, because it has been written by men, and men have sins.

You might also think: where do you was before you born. Where will you be after ? How do you came in between ?
Or things like: This is an atom. It has 1 proton, 1 neutron and 1 electron. Where is the soul ? The love ? The thinking ? in it ?
Etc.


Yes, I guess God gave you the choice to conveniently quote the bible when it suits you. Just remember John the forums consist of atheists and people of other faiths. I'm out of here, I got a Christian on the barbecue as we speak.

 Consider all of the people who live in the remote regions of the world who have never even heard the "gospel" of Jesus Christ. Consider the people who have naturally adhered to the religion of their parents and nation as they had been taught to do since birth. If we are to believe the Christians, all of these people will perish in the eternal fire for not believing in Jesus. It does not matter how just, kind, and generous they have been with their fellow humans during their lifetime: if they do not accept the gospel of Jesus, they are condemned. No just God would ever judge a man by his beliefs rather than his actions.

Offline Winiroo

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #84 on: February 09, 2008, 06:50:55 PM »
I think we got a bit off topic...

Offline John2038

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #85 on: February 09, 2008, 06:59:43 PM »
Dachshund,

Look beyond the ready to cut-and-past quote you can find on the net.
You don't even know if the Bible as it is, is not of the wishes of God.
It has been demonstrated that some parts of the Bible have been written under pressure.
So a Christian will very probably ignore such quotes, thinking he can't either understand them fully now,
or they have been incorrectly translated from the reality.
The Bible has been inspired by God, as it is. But all the others religions as well.
To gives you the choice. And maybe the "mistakes" are here to test your faith..
What matter the most, is to be good in your life.
The religion is a personal choice.
God is Just and Good. Don't worry for the remote regions.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2008, 07:03:46 PM by John2038 »

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #86 on: February 09, 2008, 07:11:19 PM »
John let me save you the trouble dude. I'm an atheist. Don't believe in a God, never did, never will. You can preach till you're blue in the face and I will never buy it. Quote scripture, don't quote scripture, I don't care 'cause to be honest I really ain't paying attention.

Wonder what the bible has to say about disclosure? :P

That is pretty funny though coming from you the Queen of cut and paste.

See ya in Sunday school :-*




                       

Offline thunter34

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #87 on: February 09, 2008, 07:13:27 PM »
Wonder what the bible has to say about disclosure? :P
                       

Damn you!  I've been dying to ask all thread:  What Would Jesus Disclose?


PS:  Save me some barbecue.  All I have is leftover Jehovah's Witnesses over here.  And they don't keep well.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2008, 07:15:05 PM by thunter34 »
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline John2038

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #88 on: February 09, 2008, 07:15:42 PM »
thunter34, Dachshund
it's your choice..  :-*

Offline thunter34

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #89 on: February 09, 2008, 07:17:31 PM »
thunter34, Dachshund
it's your choice..  :-*


kthxbye!
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline anniebc

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #90 on: February 09, 2008, 07:41:01 PM »
John, Dash, Thunter...enough ok.

Wether or not you understand the thread it was Milker who started it, so if you have anything to say on the subject then say it to him..so please stick with the OP or leave it alone...thanks for your cooperation.

Jan
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Never knock on deaths door..ring the bell and run..he really hates that.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #91 on: February 09, 2008, 08:36:17 PM »
Which probably explains why you were down on your knees every Sunday.

You got that right, honey.  And I was tithing too!
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #92 on: February 09, 2008, 08:54:31 PM »
The Sinai is half on the African Plate and half on the Arabian plate, from a tectonic perspective.

Yep, I guess Sinai (rather than Palestine) would about be the boundary between north Africa & southwest Asia.  My bad. 
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #93 on: February 09, 2008, 09:08:45 PM »
Is anyone else befuddled by the point I'm making?


.... trolling on along
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline newbernswiss

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #94 on: February 09, 2008, 09:15:44 PM »
HMMMMM. I was always taught that JESUS was a JEW and as for GOD, There is no reference to his ethnicity. God could possibly be a little of all of us I think. 

Offline Miss Philicia

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"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline thunter34

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #96 on: February 09, 2008, 10:35:40 PM »
JESUS SPEAKS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCPMufI9zUw


OMG...the Dead Head hippie in me is so totally turned on.

I think I'm precumming pachouli.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline BT65

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #97 on: February 09, 2008, 11:34:59 PM »
I think I'm precumming pachouli.

Timmy, if you could precum Paloma Picasso, please bottle it and I'll send you my address.  It is my favorite scent.
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline komnaes

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #98 on: February 09, 2008, 11:51:28 PM »
JESUS SPEAKS

I didn't know I could agree on so many things with JESUS, especially on acid.
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline Queen Tokelove

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #99 on: February 10, 2008, 01:06:18 AM »
I think my avatar says it all. Even what I wrote beneath it... ;) Milky, I sure hope you got some insight to your question. I have never seen so many Bible quotes thrown around that's for sure. And I thought Philly stayed on his knees because he was praying.... ;) :-* Thunter Bunny, How dare you get turned on by Jesus, you're going to hell for sure because I am the only one who is suppose to turn you on...(I wish)... ;D And I think you would prefer my underworld than the Christian hell. I have naked men.... :D How about a game of naked twister.... :D

Hey Feng Shaun, Share the acid dude and then we can sing "Do you hear what I hear" Our own version, of course..... ;)

And to think, I even got a geography lesson from this thread, who would've thunk it? Sorry to hijack, Milky but I thought your thread could use some comedic relief. Tempers were getting hot as Hades, up in here, up in here...


(Who is on a roll and has jokes for days)
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
2/6/08 CD4- 401 VL- undetectable
5/7/08 CD4- 705 VL- undetectable
6/4/08 CD4- 775 VL- undetectable
8/6/08 CD4- 805 VL- undetectable
11/13/08 CD4- 774 VL--undetectable
2/4/09  CD4- 484  VL- 18,000 (2 months off meds)
3/3/09---Starting Back on Meds---
4/27/09 CD4- 664 VL-- undetectable
6/17/09 CD4- 438 VL- 439
8/09 CD4- 404 VL- 1,600
01-22-10-- CD4- 525 VL- 59,000
Cherish the simple things life has to offer

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Offline milker

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #100 on: February 10, 2008, 01:13:13 AM »
Tempers were getting hot as Hades, up in here, up in here...
My bf's online name was Hades.. I'm always asking for trouble, am I not :)

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
nov 30 08: cd4 478 (23%) vl 1880 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feb 19 09: cd4 398 (24%) vl 430 getting there!
apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
may 27 10: cd4 655 (32%) vl undetectable :D :D

Now accepting applications from blowjob ninjas™

Offline komnaes

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #101 on: February 10, 2008, 02:19:25 AM »
Hey Feng Shaun, Share the acid dude and then we can sing "Do you hear what I hear" Our own version, of course..... ;)

My dear Queen, the last time I dropped any was in concert by a UK band called the Charlatans in the early 90s. I did too much and my friends saw me walked off the venue and didn't return until the next morning. I still don't know what I did that night... amazing...

.. I'm always asking for trouble, am I not :)

That seems to be a trend Milker... ;D
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline mjmel

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #102 on: February 10, 2008, 06:22:34 AM »
What is wrong with you people? Didn't you watch the movie? Morgan Freeman! Hello?
Therein lies your answer, milk maiden.


Offline Grasshopper

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #103 on: February 10, 2008, 07:59:15 AM »

In between, what we can be sure, is that Christ Died in our place so men have been forgiven by God.
And that as long as you recognize sincerely Jesus as your Saviour, your sins will be forgiven.

I cannot fathom the thought, that someone needed to die a most horrific death for others to obtain absolution.

This wole dying on the cross thing, just doesn't make sense to me.
God created Adam & Eve and set the stage Himself with the apple and snake. Poor Eve had no choice.....she HAD to start paving the road leading to the mount of Calvary.

Why someone (God) as omnipotent as is claimed that he is, needed to make things so complicated, just doesn't add up.

So I'm letting religion be for those who need it.

Offline Ann

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Re: Why are black people in the US believe in the white christian God?
« Reply #104 on: February 10, 2008, 08:02:34 AM »
I knew I should have locked this thread yesterday. I don't see one good reason to leave it open for another round of bible quotes and thinly veiled insults.

~click~
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