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Author Topic: Presidential promises  (Read 2128 times)

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Offline Cliff

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  • Posts: 2,645
Presidential promises
« on: January 11, 2008, 08:20:11 AM »
Looks like the (Dem.) race is heating up.  I was reading an article about Clinton's trip to Nevada, which reported the following:

"Mrs. Clinton said she would like to freeze interest rates for five years, and create a federal program that would help homeowners get through a bad time, to prevent foreclosures. Mrs. Clinton also said she believed were slipping into a recession.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/11/us/politics/11clinton.html?ref=politics

That sounds like an odd promise to make considering the President doesn't even set interest rates.  They are set by the Federal Reserve.  And rates consumers pay are also impacted by rates set by each Bank/Credit Card company.  And setting up a federal program to help homeowners get through a bad time seems awfully vague!

Why do people believe candidates?  Maybe they don't.

Offline mjmel

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Re: Presidential promises
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2008, 08:38:20 AM »
Now, now! You're just picking on her, Cliff. She said nothing about making that promise in the quoted statements you provided in your post. Plus, it's implied that she'd use channels of influence, available to her as President, in introducing legislation or prodding those who hold such powers in that direction.

Mike M

P.S. With the elections nearing we really need an icon with boxing gloves.  :D


Offline Cliff

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Re: Presidential promises
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2008, 08:49:38 AM »
ha!!!  If I was picking on her, I'd say something like she cried like a baby to win in N.H.

Mike, I stand firmly by my statements.  She is lying.  She will have little influence over the federal reserve.  Interest rates will move and no one can make them stay put for 5 years....that's just silly.

Go Bama.

ok, actually either one of them will be fine.  Just not McCain or Huckabee.  Or the Mormon guy whose name escapes me right now.

Offline vokz

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  • efavirenz junkie
Re: Presidential promises
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2008, 08:54:03 AM »
Or the Mormon guy whose name escapes me right now.

Shouldn't that me 'Moron'? .. or did you mean the Mormon moron ;)

Offline Robert

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Re: Presidential promises
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2008, 11:46:07 AM »
Cliff.

I took it to mean the interest rate on the loan.  If the home buyer gets a variable rate, then it would hold for at least 5 years before the company can adjust it vs. the 1 or 2 year adjustment.

I gotta admit her emotional moment touched me, until I saw the whole thing where she recovered at the last second and started talking policy again.  But I think she learned her lesson.

Here's the The Chronicle's take on the Hillary moment.

The Mormon and the Baptist scare the bejesus out of me.

robert
..........

Online Miss Philicia

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  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Presidential promises
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2008, 12:11:18 PM »
Every candidate makes bullshit mistakes.  Look at Obama, the one who invited a virulently homophobic preacher to speak at one of his events.  Imagine if he's invited David Duke to the same rally.

And yeah, I hold that against him even if in the end I do like the guy.
"Ive slept with enough men to know that Im not gay"

Offline Cliff

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Re: Presidential promises
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2008, 01:12:11 PM »
Yes, they do all make mistakes (not sure it was said mistakenly though).  I'm just waiting for the big scandal to hit (supposedly her people have something on him).

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: Presidential promises
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2008, 01:22:01 PM »
I take it your not fond of the Clintons, and that these feeling predate the current presidential campaign.
"Ive slept with enough men to know that Im not gay"

Offline Cliff

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Re: Presidential promises
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2008, 01:50:17 PM »
No.  You're right, I don't like them.  I would vote for either of them (when I came of age, I voted for his reelection).  But I don't trust them for one second.  Why?  They seem to abandon loyal friends a drop of dime, when it's convenient for them.  They seem to abandon their principles when they can score political points.  When I think of Clinton, I think of HIV ban, Don't ask-don't tell, harsh welfare reforms, abandoning black appointees, failed health care reform.  But then they turn around and claim to be the saviors of the poor and working classes.  ummm, why?  But people eat it up and love them to pieces.  I don't.

Hillary is quite chummy with the political establishment (including Republicans).

Clinton is the practical candidate.  The lesser of two evils candidate.

Obama is not perfect (by a long shot), but I believe he's the best option to bring change.  So is Edwards, but I don't think he can win a general election. 

Offline mjmel

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Re: Presidential promises
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2008, 03:20:37 PM »
ha!!!  If I was picking on her, I'd say something like she cried like a baby to win in N.H.

Mike, I stand firmly by my statements.  She is lying.  She will have little influence over the federal reserve.  Interest rates will move and no one can make them stay put for 5 years....that's just silly.

Go Bama.

ok, actually either one of them will be fine.  Just not McCain or Huckabee.  Or the Mormon guy whose name escapes me right now.

Romney is the Mormon candidate.

"ok, actually either one of them will be fine." Agreed! Either of the three front runners will do fine.

Grandiloquent language is common in our presidential candidates as they head for the final leg.........Obama is no different than Clinton in this respect. My goodness, Obama is practically offering instant Nirvana with all those fix'em up promises. Not to mention he needs Congress to carry to legislation all those promises.

I recently viewed Sicko. Hillary received some coverage in it. Remember the move spearheaded early in Bill Clinton's administration when he appointed Hillary to head the National Health Reform? It was a push for Universal Coverage--socialized medicine. The AMA & Health Industry Conglomerates fought to defeat this and sunk $100 million strong to defeat Hillary. They did.

About 15 years later, she accepted $854,462 from her old enemies. It was a nice 'contribution' wouldn't you say. So, I know there is merit to your words here and in your other postings.
In this way Obama and Edwards shine because they haven't accepted bribe money in such manner..........that is, as of this date. One way or the other, the practice of politicians detaching themselves from the general populous after they achieve power has got to come to an end here in the good ole USA.

Truthfully, I'm voting for the democratic candidate.  Whoever survives the processes.

Mike M


Offline poz1970

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  • Posts: 480
Re: Presidential promises
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2008, 03:43:44 PM »
the worst thing about political jokes, is that they get elected.
"The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals and 362 admonishments to  heterosexuals. That doesn`t mean that God doesn`t love heterosexuals. It`s just that they need more supervision." -- Lynn Lavne

Offline sacinsc

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  • Posts: 353
Re: Presidential promises
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2008, 03:46:03 PM »
Before you start picking Hillary apart you should look at all the evidence.

1. The President appoints the FED Chairman, so she A LOT of influence over what would happen. On top that the FED is part of the Federal Bureaucracy, which falls under the executive branch, which the president is at the top of. She could also use her power as Chief Legislator (yep that is one of the jobs of the President - there are 7 official "hats" the president wears) to get legislation into Congress that would in effect freeze the interest rates. That is possible.

2. The Clinton's tried Universal Healthcare...in case you have forgotten...that was the main issue the Republicans used to gain control of Congress in 1994. They destroyed it as socialized medicine and since most people fell asleep in Civics class they truly do understand what the program was.

3. Once the Republicans took control of Congress Bill had no choice but to begin working with them in order to get somethings done. He did however stand up to them plenty of times...including the magnificent feet of getting decent budget balanced by shutting down the government until Congress acted.

4. As for "Don't Ask Don't Tell" again, his hands were tied. The feeling in the country at the time was not as supportive as it is now. He did manage stop the persecution and blind accusations about people. We all want that policy to change, but remember the country you are in, change takes  time. When  Congress is of one party and the President of the other....you get a locked situation unless people are willing to compremise on things. Hence the problem we have now...Bush won't compromise and slowly his Republican support is falling away. It takes time.

5. As for Obama, he has made some really dumb statements. The first one that comes to mind is going out personally and meeting with the likes of Kim Jung over in North Korea. This country doesn't and never has negotiated with nut job leaders. Hillary was right, you don't deal directly with them, that gives them what they want. He has no experience dealing foreign affairs, she does. Believe it or not that is a job of the First Lady...dealing with foreign dignitaries.

6. Remember the keys to campaigning...propaganda and band wagon tactics. Make SURE you get the whole entire story...do your research before you make accusations about the candidate. Don't call them a liar if you don't have all of the facts. If you are halfway quoting something that was already halfway quoted earlier from another source....well in all truth....you don't know what you are talking about. You fell for the propaganda technique.

OK, enough of my lesson.

Matt
Your friendly neighborhood Civics teacher :)
« Last Edit: January 11, 2008, 03:48:54 PM by sacinsc »
March 07 - Negative
May 07 - Exposed
June 07 - Seroconversion
September 07 - CD4 402 VL 118000 25%
October 07 -     CD4 294 VL 124000 22%
November 07 - Norvir, Triuvada and Reyataz
December 07 -  CD4 355 VL  550 .... guess the meds are working.
January 08 - CD4 446 VL <48 undetectable!
April 08 - CD4 554 VL <48 undetectable!
July 08 - CD4 666 VL <48 undetectable! Hporay...I have devil CD4's

Offline Robert

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Re: Presidential promises
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2008, 03:59:36 PM »
My beef with Hilary is that she has never disavowed the tactics or the power grab itself that Bush has employed. 

As far as I'm concerned she is just like Bush/Cheney/Rove except she comes from the left rather than the right.

robert
..........

Offline Cliff

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  • Posts: 2,645
Re: Presidential promises
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2008, 04:20:56 PM »
Sac- In my opinion, you didn't give so much as the whole story but excuses.  Like I said, people eat up their excuses and love them to peices.  I don't.

And your civic lesson grossly misinterprets Presidential power.  Yes, I suppose she (along with Congressional approval, which you fail to mention in your lesson) could try to dismantle the mostly independent federal reserve status, in order to get her 5 year interest rate freeze, it's highly unlikely.  And yes, she could technically appoint a chairman who would hold rates steady (though setting interest rates isn't solely up to the Chairman, which you fail to mention in your lesson), it's unlikely she would find someone (who could get past congressional approval) that would ever agree to do something so economically unsound (suicidal even). 

Basically, it can't and won't happen.  She's lying, sorry.  But thank you very much for your "civic lesson."  It was most helpful.

Offline Jody

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  • Posts: 1,781
Re: Presidential promises
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2008, 08:22:41 PM »
My old roommate Leslie who passed away in 1995 used to say "Don't vote- it just encourages them !!!"

It seems rather profound with this bunch running  ;D

Jody ;)
"Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world".
 "Try to discover that you are the song that the morning brings."

Grateful Dead

Offline sacinsc

  • Member
  • Posts: 353
Re: Presidential promises
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2008, 10:52:21 PM »
Cliff Cliff...

Another of the President's jobs is called Guardian of the Economy. It means that as President they have power over all parts of the economy through various agencies, one of course being the FED. Yes the FED is fairly independent, however, t it is not totally independent. The President can lash out with power that is not normally used to get things done the way that he or she in this case wants them done. Ergo Executive Orders...which have the same value as a law passed by Congress, and can only be struck down by a vote of Congress OR if the Supreme Court declares them unconstitutional. Ask Bush...he hands out a dime a dozen...and Congress never has gotten rid of them. In fact, Congress has I believe only struck down a handful of them throughout history. The President also has control over the OMB...Office of Management and Budget. This handy little office is the one that really watches out for the President on anything related to the economy and has things that they can do to control things. In my lesson before, you said I misrepresented presidential power, however, you then went on to agree that everything I said was in effect true. I stated only the truth.

As far as can it happen....simply put....yes. You said so yourself. Is it probably going to happen? Nah not a chance, but it could. So lets look at it truthfully, did she lie, nope, could she try yep, would she succeed, nope...but she never said she could. And just to enlighten us, could you point us to the article that you found this tidbit? I would like to read her entire speech on the subject, not just a little bit, the entire thing. I don't buy into propaganda things as easily as most. I get the blogs and emails from ALL the candidates, then I take that propaganda and sift through it and then research it further to understand the real meaning behind it. You even saw into what I wrote before..yeah there were some holes in what I said....we ALL must agree that ANY information we receive about ANY of the candidates has holes in it. In my case, not left out intentionally, but because typing an entire civics lecture on here would not only be tedious but fruitless, because no one would read it....just pieces...again my main point...we get bits and pieces not the whole truth.

:) Matt
March 07 - Negative
May 07 - Exposed
June 07 - Seroconversion
September 07 - CD4 402 VL 118000 25%
October 07 -     CD4 294 VL 124000 22%
November 07 - Norvir, Triuvada and Reyataz
December 07 -  CD4 355 VL  550 .... guess the meds are working.
January 08 - CD4 446 VL <48 undetectable!
April 08 - CD4 554 VL <48 undetectable!
July 08 - CD4 666 VL <48 undetectable! Hporay...I have devil CD4's

Offline bocker3

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,254
  • You gotta enjoy life......
Re: Presidential promises
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2008, 10:19:15 AM »
Although it isn't clear in the article cited in this thread -- I do believe that Hillary is talking about a law that would freeze the interest rates of Adjustable Rate Mortgages and NOT general interest rates.  Many people have thrown around the idea of freezing ARMs for a period of time for specific borrowers (I forget all the details, but I'm sure it's out there somewhere).
If you think about anyone who suggests freezing overall interest rates would be completely nuts.  You bring the rates up or down based on the economy (up to help avoid runaway inflation, down to help avoid recession). 
I agree that a President might be able to exert pressure on a Fed Chairman, but that is it!  However, a President could definitely help to pass a law requiring mortgage companies/banks to freeze ARMs -- of course, Congress would need to go along.
Anyway -- that's my 2 cents, I need to go pack for my 3 weeks in England -- hope the weather is decent over there!!

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline Cliff

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  • Posts: 2,645
Re: Presidential promises
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2008, 11:55:27 AM »
-- hope the weather is decent over there!!
It was today.  Lots of sunshine and blue skies.  Well in London anyway. 


 


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