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Author Topic: CLARIFICATION ON RISKS  (Read 4551 times)

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Offline Domino101

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CLARIFICATION ON RISKS
« on: January 01, 2008, 02:29:14 PM »
Hi All,

I would like to start off by saying that I am not one of your typical Worried Wells. I do a lot of reading on the HIV/AIDS transmission subject matter and would consider myself very knowledgeable, because I am pursuing a career as an Infectious Diseases nurse.

With that said I a “bottom” who follows strict rules in my sex life. I do give head, but with no ejaculation. I do require the top to wear a condom, and to further my safety, I ask that he not ejaculate in the condom, just for additional safety measures.

Now, there is a lot of “fluff” out on the Internet that I need clarification on. So far, I have done a good job at staying negative and wish to remain that way. However, the more I read the more of a frenzy I put myself in.

Some websites say that a sufficient quantity needs to be deposited into a man’s rectum (e.g., semen) to cause infection. Other websites say pre-cum is considered infectious and should be avoided at all cost. Well-respected HIV websites will say receptive anal sex with no ejaculation is low risk. I have also read that with the exception of receptive anal sex with ejaculation or IV drug use, HIV is still relatively difficult to transmit.

For me, I can’t seem to get a straight answer.

1. What is the general rule for pre-cum? Is it far less infectious than semen? Also, I like when guys rub their dick on my asshole – I have been told this is minimal risk.
2. In order for infectious fluid to get into another person’s blood stream, would there need to be a huge gaping hole flowing with blood to be considered an effective route to cause infection?

Thanks.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: CLARIFICATION ON RISKS
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2008, 03:17:00 PM »
Pre-cum can contain HIV virus. So rather than trying to quantify the risk level if it's intercourse you're talking about the insertive partner needs to be wearing a condom. Period.

If it's giving oral that you're asking about, there's much more evidence that supports it being very low level to no risk. Saliva has elements in it which effectively de-stabilize HIV. Although from time to time there are reports of transmission orally, several longterm studies of sero-discordant couples strongly support the no-risk position as far as giving oral. From my point of view this is something each person has to decide about in terms of what level of risk they are willing to live with.

Rubbing without insertion is NOT considered a risk. Of course if for instance your anus is very sore and bleeding say from some other condition then common sense would tell you having a pre-cum dripping or ejaculating penis rubbing against it would not be wise. 

The kind of question your posing about "a gaping hole" is one of those theoretical situations to which I can't respond because it's not clear to me what you have in mind.
Andy Velez

Offline Domino101

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Re: CLARIFICATION ON RISKS
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2008, 03:24:25 PM »
Andy,

Thank you for your reply. I guess what I meant by "gaping hole" is that people - including me - often dream up WHAT IF scenarios. If a guy is rubbing his dick on your ass...WHAT IF precum got into a small cut or a pimple or what have you...in order for HIV transmission to occur, I would imagine the scratch, sore, etc. would need to be profusely bleeding.

Also, once pre-cum is exposed to air at the tip of the penis or if it is rubbed onto one's anus, would air quickly begin to tear down the virus' elements?

Thank you.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: CLARIFICATION ON RISKS
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2008, 04:10:54 PM »
It wouldn't be a risk.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: CLARIFICATION ON RISKS
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2008, 04:19:40 PM »
What ifs are not a good place to hang around in.

You're presumably a man of legal age. Anytime you have sex with someone else and other than with your own hand there is potentially some risk of STDs. That's just a fact of life. So what you have to do is play it the safer way. As far as HIV is concerned if you consistently use condoms for intercourse you are pretty much covered literally and figuratevely.

I don't see you as likely to be having a thorough once over with a mirror immediately prior to sex to check for pimples and other such, (none of which are risky anyway). As for a profusely bleeding open wound, unless you're into "special stuff," is that really a circumstance under which you're going to be having sex? And if you are it still isn't putting you at risk unless the guy is ejaculating directly into such a what if wound. Like I said, don't hang around in these what ifs.

Get real, use condoms, get on with your life and have a good New Year.

« Last Edit: January 01, 2008, 04:22:24 PM by Andy Velez »
Andy Velez

Offline Domino101

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Re: CLARIFICATION ON RISKS
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2008, 09:36:25 PM »
"To be infected with HIV, a significant amount of the virus has to enter the blood."

Can you please explain what would constitute "a significant amount"

Thank you.

Offline Domino101

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Re: CLARIFICATION ON RISKS
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2008, 07:32:41 PM »
A response would definitely be appreciated. An HIV counselor told me yesterday that if a condom broke and there was no ejaculate inside - and I was the receptive partner - HIV transmission would be little/no risk.

All I ask is a reply to this question and I will stop hounding you guys for answers. I'm not a worried well. I'm also pursuing a degree in Infectious Diseases, so your answers and patience can certainly help me pass on informative, educational answers to those who approach me.

Thank you.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: CLARIFICATION ON RISKS
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2008, 08:37:35 PM »
Quote
I'm also pursuing a degree in Infectious Diseases

Then I suggest you have your Prof explain it to you.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: CLARIFICATION ON RISKS
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2008, 09:35:17 AM »
Actually I can't give you an answer to that question.

We avoid that kind of abstract question here and prefer to deal with specific situations that come up. Instead we emphasize following the basics of safer sex consistently and considering the details of someone's situation as given to us.

   



Andy Velez

Offline Domino101

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Re: CLARIFICATION ON RISKS
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2008, 04:39:25 PM »
Ann/Andy,

I am pursuing a career in Infectious Diseases and trying my best to become an encyclopedia of HIV Transmission, HIV, as a virus, etc.

Ann, I was reading through your posts and was interested in finding out where you get your material from - educational, per se. I think the "envelope" scenario is an excellent teaching mechanism.

Additionally, I had a few questions regarding pre-cum and the pH balance, moisture, etc.

*If a top was wearing a condom, inserted the condom into a bottom and later (with no ejaculation in the condom), the condom broke, would pre-cum that came out of the condom be exposed to a different pH or environmental change, therefore, weakening its ability to infect?

Thank you.

Offline Domino101

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Re: CLARIFICATION ON RISKS
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2008, 04:40:52 PM »
Allow me to clarify my above question...

If the pre-cum that came out of the penis (but the condom was still intact) -- would that be an example of exposure to a different environment, etc?

Offline RapidRod

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Re: CLARIFICATION ON RISKS
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2008, 04:48:15 PM »
If you used a condom and had precum and or ejaculated it would not matter. That's what condoms are for. There would be no risk.

Offline Domino101

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Re: CLARIFICATION ON RISKS
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2008, 05:08:15 PM »
Maybe I should reexplain what I'm asking...

I am trying to gain bearing on the virus' susceptibility to infect once it is outside of the human body.

In the case I am explaining, if a man is wearing a condom and pre-cum comes out of his penis into the condom, then later, the condom breaks, would the HIV virus in the pre-cum be considered "exposed to different pH, atmospheric changes" and still have the ability to infect once the condom broke?

Offline Ann

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    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: CLARIFICATION ON RISKS
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2008, 06:26:51 PM »
Dom,

It's pretty rare for anyone to become infected through a condom break. You need to lighten up. Have a look through all three condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Domino101

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Re: CLARIFICATION ON RISKS
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2008, 06:34:11 PM »
Ann,

"Lightening up," I should DEFINITELY do. In the meantime, I browsed through your condom link and lube link.

Why would you say most condom breaks do not result in transmission (is this BEFORE ejaculation)???

Best,

Dom

Offline Ann

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  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: CLARIFICATION ON RISKS
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2008, 07:03:33 PM »
Dom, 

Hiv is a difficult virus to transmit. You can either stay celibate, or continue on with practicing safer sex. It's up to you what level of risk you take. Condom breaks rarely result in transmission, especially if you're the insertive partner. Even if you're the receptive partner, if he hasn't cum in you, then you're essentially worrying over nothing.

Ann
 
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Domino101

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  • Posts: 13
Re: CLARIFICATION ON RISKS
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2008, 08:26:51 PM »
Ann,

All "theoretical" risks aside, keeping semen OUT of the anus is the best preventative measure for staying negative. Would you agree?

Offline Domino101

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Re: CLARIFICATION ON RISKS
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2008, 08:40:47 PM »
ann,

where are the specific cells in your rectum and please explain the infection process.

has pre-cum been considered only a theoretical risk since it has never been scientifically proven to transmit the virus?

thanks

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: CLARIFICATION ON RISKS
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2008, 08:52:37 PM »
Domino,

The way to prevent HIV transmission is to use condoms and water based lube when you have anal or vaginal sex. The specific cells are found in large numbers in the blood vessels that line the rectum. HIV is able to infect these cells because the have they specific receptors on their surface that the virus uses to fuse with the cell.

MtD

/eediited fr a smal tyop/
« Last Edit: January 15, 2008, 11:59:31 PM by matty.the.damned »

Offline Domino101

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Re: CLARIFICATION ON RISKS
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2008, 04:30:27 PM »
Ann,

So, to clarify, if a bottom had sex with a top and the condom broke during anal sex, but no semen was inside the condom, the risk, essentially, would boil down to the pre-cum present in the condom.

Are you saying the pre-cum would be more of a risk factor for various other STDs, but not HIV? I'm not promoting dipping or coitus interruptus. I'm merely trying to quantify the risk(s) involved with exposure to pre-cum ONLY, if, in fact, the bottom was protected by a condom until it broke.

Thanks.

Offline thunter34

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  • His name is Carl.
Re: CLARIFICATION ON RISKS
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2008, 04:46:46 PM »
Hon, just so ya know...this forum here is to provide HIV risk assessment based on specific member provided scenarios.  It's not really to provide chapter by chapter, line by line microscopic analysis of every "what if" and "which way can I turn it" spin you can drum up. 

I mean, Ann and company can provide whatever answers they see fit, but they've got other posters to take care of.  If you're really wanting lab quality one on one instruction on all things HIV, go take a course or visit the library. 
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline thunter34

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  • His name is Carl.
Re: CLARIFICATION ON RISKS
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2008, 04:55:00 PM »
PS:  I don't mean that to sound nasty or anything.  Just something to consider. 
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Domino101

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  • Posts: 13
Re: CLARIFICATION ON RISKS
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2008, 04:59:09 PM »
THunter,

While I respect and appreciate your “feedback,” the condescending tone in your response leads me to believe that people like “me” frustrate you.

Knowledge is knowledge. It doesn’t matter where you find it or how you ask. True, I can imagine that some forum members ask questions that are way out in left field, but if you will entertain my request, glance through my questions/comments on this post. You will quickly find that I have not asked any question out of context, nor have I overstepped my membership boundaries.

As an educator, myself, I hope to one day possess a wealth of knowledge as such members as Ann and Andy. In the meantime, try to take a look at the situation through my eyes. I have been to the library on numerous occasions to research HIV transmission, in addition to countless hours on the Internet. To no avail, I have found conflicting information. I find peace and reassurance at this website, as it is highly-respected (and rightfully so.)

In the meantime, my only request is that you not condemn those of us who are genuinely trying to LEARN about HIV and all that it encompasses. I do agree that maybe my questions seem endless and they can, at times, be misconstrued as redundant, but, as I mentioned, my main goal is to broaden my horizons and give solid, reputable advice and information to those who seek my knowledge.

If you cannot appreciate or respect my stance, then I will politely ask that you step out of this forum post and proceed to reprimand another forum member. I am not interested in any response that is not upbeat or focused on the mission we are all chasing – HIV Awareness.

Much appreciated.

Domino

Offline RapidRod

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Re: CLARIFICATION ON RISKS
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2008, 05:07:57 PM »
Domino101, have you taken the time to read the lessons on this website? If not take the time and read them. Most all your answers to your questions will be found there.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: CLARIFICATION ON RISKS
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2008, 05:27:31 PM »
In the meantime, my only request is that you not condemn those of us who are genuinely trying to LEARN about HIV and all that it encompasses. I do agree that maybe my questions seem endless and they can, at times, be misconstrued as redundant, but, as I mentioned, my main goal is to broaden my horizons and give solid, reputable advice and information to those who seek my knowledge.

And you think Timmy's being condescending? Teach thyself, educator.

Look, if you're a community educator or what-the-hell-ever, then surely the outfit that's releasing you on the unsuspecting fags of your area should have trained you. I fail to see why we should be doing that. The purpose of AMI is to provide appropriate HIV/AIDS assessments to people who believe they may have been at risk of infection.

Now if you have a specific risk you'd like to discuss with us, spit it out. Otherwise bugger off.

And don't send me anymore PM's.

MtD

Offline Domino101

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Re: CLARIFICATION ON RISKS
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2008, 05:52:49 PM »
Clearly, MtD, your efforts in keeping this Forum an “open” venue are soon overshadowed by your inability to effectively communicate with other people.

As I have noticed in previous posts of yours, your membership terms have been consequently been revoked on numerous occasions. I can see why.

MtD, your inappropriate and immature behavior deserves nothing less than a complete BAN from this Forum board.

As I mentioned in my previous post, our mission – and I use that term confidently – is to educate each other in the epidemic. Your silly, childish bantering is useless and time-consuming.

I’m slightly concerned to see such catty behavior from someone such as yourself, MtD, who, to date, has posted 5,546 responses. I only hope you have not treated them as unprofessionally as you have done me.

Domino

Offline RapidRod

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Re: CLARIFICATION ON RISKS
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2008, 05:57:27 PM »
Move on, you are doing nothing more here than trying to start a flame war. If you want further information I suggest you take them to your local STD clinic and spend some time talking to a counselor.

Offline thunter34

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Re: CLARIFICATION ON RISKS
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2008, 06:42:52 PM »
Clearly, MtD, your efforts in keeping this Forum an “open” venue are soon overshadowed by your inability to effectively communicate with other people.

As I have noticed in previous posts of yours, your membership terms have been consequently been revoked on numerous occasions. I can see why.


Hmmm....you sure know a lot for someone who has only been here for a couple of weeks.  You've certainly done you MtD research.  He hasn't had any "revoke" issues in a long, long time.

You'd do well to familiarize yourself with the Lessons and the Posting Guidelines to such a degree.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

 


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