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Author Topic: Mitt Romney and Abortion  (Read 4684 times)

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Offline wishihadacat

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Mitt Romney and Abortion
« on: December 16, 2007, 11:24:51 AM »
Iíve just been listening to Mitt Romney on Meet The Press. He admitted that he has changed his position on abortion and is now opposed to them because in his view, life begins at conception. In the next breath, Romney declared that he was not opposed to the use of ďsurplusĒ embryos for stem cell research. You canít have it both ways. The idea of ensoulment - that life begins at conception - is a religious view, and in my opinion we have no business imposing our religious views on others. That opinion is hardly news - it is part of the foundation that our country was built on. We all know that. 

Romney seems to be a sincere individual, but it would be nice if he and his ilk were at least honest enough to say what that they mean - that they want to bend our Constitutional framework when it suits them, and that when it comes to religion and abortion - which are so inextricably intertwined - they are willing to let the religious views of a perceived majority determine how we live our lives.
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Offline Dachshund

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Re: Mitt Romney and Abortion
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2007, 11:29:58 AM »
"There isn't anybody running for the Republican nomination I can support. The religious right has taken over and every Republican candidate has to adopt their positions," said Dottie Carpenter, a former Republican state legislator from Des Moines who switched her registration to Democratic last year.

"I had been a moderate Republican all my life, but I just couldn't continue down that road," said Carpenter, whose big split with the party was on abortion.


Offline wishihadacat

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Re: Mitt Romney and Abortion
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2007, 11:50:54 AM »
"There isn't anybody running for the Republican nomination I can support. The religious right has taken over and every Republican candidate has to adopt their positions," said Dottie Carpenter, a former Republican state legislator from Des Moines who switched her registration to Democratic last year.

"I had been a moderate Republican all my life, but I just couldn't continue down that road," said Carpenter, whose big split with the party was on abortion.



I couldn't agree more. I've always been a liberal Democrat but in many ways I've become more conservative as I've gotten older, and if I thought there was a moderate Republican who would make a better president than whoever wins the Democratic nod, I'd vote for him or her, but I don't see anyone among the current crop who makes the grade as far as I'm concerned.
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Offline swede_dish

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Re: Mitt Romney and Abortion
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2007, 12:59:37 AM »
When I first read this I thought it said "Mitt Romney's Abortion".
"I married a German. Every night I dress up as Poland and he invades me. "
-Bette Midler

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Mitt Romney and Abortion
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2007, 04:16:51 AM »
I love the abortion debate. It really brings out the most interesting extremes in people. Pro-life men are a special favourite of mine.

Pro-life men are mentally deficient pansies who can't stand the thought that some future abuse victims were allowed to avoid the life they've been forced to suffer. The most offensive pro-life men are those who managed to bag a fertile female and when the evil slut cleverly disposed of the evidence, made it their purpose in life to punish every woman for having a womb.

The stark reality is that Mitt the Mormon has no clothes on this issue. From a fundy point of view it doesn't matter that the slimy butt-munch is a Latter Day Saint - the clincher for Sherryn and Randall McSaved of Shitsplat County Idaho is his pro-choice, pro-queer record when he was the First Pervert of Fagachussetts.

To digress slightly, I often wonder if teen suicide is the inevitable consequence of people choosing to have babies that they probably should have dumped in a bucket during the first trimester. I mean you've got to wonder about the 17 year old who removes himself from the gene pool because when he played that fateful game of Russian Roulette he was "like totally sure" the chamber was empty.

That to one side, even the most phase locked evangelical Christ fucker would have to concede that John Mark and David Huckabee are compelling arguments in favour of a woman's right to choose.

MtD

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Mitt Romney and Abortion
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2007, 04:51:18 AM »
Pray say Matty, you digress? Not you?  :D

Offline wishihadacat

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Re: Mitt Romney and Abortion
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2007, 05:15:33 AM »
Pro-life men are mentally deficient pansies who can't stand the thought that some future abuse victims were allowed to avoid the life they've been forced to suffer. The most offensive pro-life men are those who managed to bag a fertile female and when the evil slut cleverly disposed of the evidence, made it their purpose in life to punish every woman for having a womb.


Hells Bells, Matty, why mince words?!  ;D
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Offline jack

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Re: Mitt Romney and Abortion
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2007, 06:23:28 AM »
To oppose Abortion does not necessarily mean you would make it illegal.  It is hard to find anyone who is not sickened by the thought of abortion.
I have a Friend who is a dreaded  Christian,his married daughter was pregnant and was told by several specialists if she did not abort she would die,for sure. She made the decision to have the baby. I saw both the baby and mother at a Christmas party this weekend.
Of course Romney changed his stand,no way could he have been elected in Mass if he was not an abortion supporter, fortunately the rest of country puts a higher standard on the rights of the unborn.
If one of my daughters was at risk because of a pregnancy I would advise her to choose abortion given the choice of a life that might be and a living person, I have to go with the living person.
As with many of todays great social issues, people on both sides refuse to settle on a middle ground. Those in the religious right are just as guilty of this as some on the left whose whole being is based on the religion of abortion. Abortion has become their God,just the same as Jesus is the God those they oppose.

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Mitt Romney and Abortion
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2007, 07:15:45 AM »
Abortion has become their God,just the same as Jesus is the God those they oppose.

So how do you explain the many Republicans, including Gouliani, who support a woman's right to choose?

Offline bocker3

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Re: Mitt Romney and Abortion
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2007, 07:51:17 AM »
To oppose Abortion does not necessarily mean you would make it illegal.  It is hard to find anyone who is not sickened by the thought of abortion.
I have a Friend who is a dreaded  Christian,his married daughter was pregnant and was told by several specialists if she did not abort she would die,for sure. She made the decision to have the baby. I saw both the baby and mother at a Christmas party this weekend.
Of course Romney changed his stand,no way could he have been elected in Mass if he was not an abortion supporter, fortunately the rest of country puts a higher standard on the rights of the unborn.
If one of my daughters was at risk because of a pregnancy I would advise her to choose abortion given the choice of a life that might be and a living person, I have to go with the living person.
As with many of todays great social issues, people on both sides refuse to settle on a middle ground. Those in the religious right are just as guilty of this as some on the left whose whole being is based on the religion of abortion. Abortion has become their God,just the same as Jesus is the God those they oppose.

Do you even read entire news articles when it involves something that is counter to your view???  I have never met (or read about) anyone who WANTS abortions to happen.  What is wanted is for the woman to be able to choose whether or not to continue a pregnancy or not.
I have always found it most interesting that the loudest and shrillest voices against a woman's right to choose are MEN -- men who will never have to suffer through making the decision or live with the consequences of it.  Ultimately, I think it has less to do with any deeply held respect for "life", but really just another example of "religious" men hating the thought of a woman who may think and make decisions for herself -- without asking a man for advice/approval.

As for "middle ground" in this issue -- I think it is the anti-choice crowd that is unwilling to compromise (although SOME, might allow it if the mother's life is at stake -- but only SOME and only MIGHT).  All the other side wants is to leave the decision to the woman, her doctor and her own conscience.  It really is amazing that the political group who is supposed to want less gov't always wants more when it can be used to force their (usually religious based) views on the rest of us.

Mike
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Offline jack

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Re: Mitt Romney and Abortion
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2007, 08:26:42 AM »
like I said,those on the left refuse to understand how far they are from the center on this issue. Are you saying if my daughter or my wife has an abortion or does not have an abortion, I am in no way emotionally involved  and suffer no consequences? Have you ever been married or had children? Doesnt sound like it. My daughters are my whole life, I want what is best for them, and if an abortion is best, so be it, but in the end it is their decision to make not mine. All I can do is offer support.

I did not see any article in the post.

We have had a rule at our house for the last twenty years, any subject, political,sexual,social can be discussed at our dinner table except for abortion when we have guests. We discuss it when we are alone but not with others,it just isnt worth it, life is just too short that is if you get the opportunity to live.

 I dont get choosing a political candidate because of his or her stance on abortion. Abortion is the law of the land. It is what it is. I have moved on. We hear nothing on the subject for four years till the election starts. It has become little more than something both sides use to their political end.
My tax rate and defense are much more important to me.

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Mitt Romney and Abortion
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2007, 08:54:25 AM »
It has become little more than something both sides use to their political end.

No Jake it's what the right uses as it's litmus test for a candidate. In reality the right doesn't want the abortion issue to end because it fires up the troops. If Republicans truly were committed to ending abortion they would have done so when they controlled all three branches of the government.

If it doesn't matter to you why bother posting about it? Anywho, you're witnessing what happens to a political party when you pander to the most extreme element. I sincerely hope your crazies win and you guys nominate Huckabee.

p.s. fyi jake, the majority of americans support a woman's right to choose.

Offline jack

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Re: Mitt Romney and Abortion
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2007, 09:25:35 AM »
for your information it is the Left and Dems who have used abortion as a litmus test for the past twenty years in nominating judges and choosing political candidates. What are you talking about? If you do not support abortion you are history in the Dem party, Republican party has both pro Abortionists and pro Lifers.

Most people who are against abortion believe in the sanctity of life and the end doesnt justify the means,they are not trying to rally any troops. As I said, I support a persons right of have an abortion in specific circumstances, and if my daughters or wife chose abortion,I would support their choice. What else do you want me to say? I know where I stand and understand and empathize with those who oppose abortion in all circumstances.

Governing based on polls and what the public wants is a dangerous business and will surely destroy our civilization. We should be electing people who will lead not who will follow pols and make policy with a finger in the air at all times.

No way the Huckster is the nominee,no way. If anything he will be a third party candidate,which you should love,cause its the only way the Dems win the presidential election. He is a big spender,believes Iraq is folly,is against the death penalty,is against US being involved in any wars. Hell, if he wasnt a Christian he would be the Democratic candidate.  He also claims to have improved the Arkansas educational system from 49th to 49th,Clinton took it from 50th to 49th.

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Mitt Romney and Abortion
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2007, 09:37:57 AM »
Have you ever been married or had children? Doesnt sound like it


I don't think you want to go there Jake. I think you and Mike have much more in common than you would like to admit.

You're right Jake government based on what the people want is a big mistake. Your party proves that every day. It will be so delicious watching the Taliban wing of the Republican Party finally take control and you won't be able to do a damn thing about it.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Mitt Romney and Abortion
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2007, 01:18:45 PM »
If you do not support abortion you are history in the Dem party, Republican party has both pro Abortionists and pro Lifers.

Guess you've never heard of Bob Casey, the junior senator from Pennsylvania.

Oh, look!  ABC News had the goods on Romney.  He's not just a flip flooper, but he's a full fledged liar to boot.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/12/romney-attended.html
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Mitt Romney and Abortion
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2007, 01:38:50 PM »
Guess you've never heard of Bob Casey, the junior senator from Pennsylvania.

Oh, look!  ABC News had the goods on Romney.  He's not just a flip flooper, but he's a full fledged liar to boot.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/12/romney-attended.html


Oh, then he must be related to Bill and Hillary Clinton.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Mitt Romney and Abortion
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2007, 02:45:57 PM »
Oh, then he must be related to Bill and Hillary Clinton.

Right.  Because Bill and Hillary claim to be pro-choice but in reality send checks to abortion clinic bombers.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline jack

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Re: Mitt Romney and Abortion
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2007, 03:35:51 PM »
Dachs, I dont wanna go where? Another poster suggested men have no stake in abortions. Another suggested men only oppose abortion because the want to control women, totally ludicrous. My point was if the poster,and it was not you,was married or had children he would know how idiotic his point was. You just dont get it.


 Casey was ostracized by Dems back in 90s for his stance on abortion, the same way Lieberman was for trying to defend the country the past few years. In fact I think he was trying a run for pres and his abortion position doomed him in his own party.

Like I said, abortion isnt even on my list of things that are important in electing a president,and I have a very long list. The only people who choose a president based on abortion are the right wing Christians and Democrat party. The rest of us get dragged into this horrible argument every four years whether we like it or not.
Leave us the fuck alone. Abortion is legal. Let it go. It doesnt matter if the President is for it or against,its the law and the presidents main job is to uphold the law. You guys won the abortion battle and in my mind its over.  Did George Bush change the abortion law? If he didnt,who the fuck do you think will? He is your devil and he didnt do it. Again,its the law of the land . Let it go.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Mitt Romney and Abortion
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2007, 03:40:12 PM »
There's an old saying Jakey,

If men could fall pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.

Of course men should have no say when it comes to making decisions about abortions. The crotch trophy doesn't grow in your body, so what's it got to do with you?

MtD

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Mitt Romney and Abortion
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2007, 03:44:21 PM »
Dachs, I dont wanna go where? Another poster suggested men have no stake in abortions. Another suggested men only oppose abortion because the want to control women, totally ludicrous. My point was if the poster,and it was not you,was married or had children he would know how idiotic his point was. You just dont get it.
 

See Jakey ol' chum it's you that don't get it. You're so busy ranting and raving and never reading that YOU don't even get it that he does have kids. Just like you. Oh, and AIDS, just like you. So you see I was right he does have something in common with you. I told you, you didn't want to go there.

Anywho it doesn't matter:

The fear [of Huckabee from the right] is not of fundamentalism itself. The fear is losing. On some level, they know that these positions freak out mainstream America. That's why Bush fumbled about on Roe v. Wade during the 2004 debates and could only bring himself to speak in code (Dred Scott). The backlash shows that these people - like much of the GOP establishment - are ashamed of this coalition. They're happy to make out with them behind the football bleachers on Saturday night, but ignore them in the lunchroom on Monday.

But still, the GOP needs them. And so the deal has been that "the crazies" stay below-radar in return for below-radar policies (e.g., judges, denying funding to international organizations who don't believe in abstinence-based policies). Huckabee is a threat because he violates the terms of the unspoken deal.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2007, 03:47:48 PM by Dachshund »

Offline BT65

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Re: Mitt Romney and Abortion
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2007, 06:51:51 PM »
This is a very interesting read.  I have had an abortion and can tell you if it would have been illegal, I probably would be dead right now because I would've resorted to the 'ol "back alley abortion" style with a clothes hanger.  I agree with Matty, "if men became pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament."  I'm sure even the Pope would be for it then.   It will be interesting to see how the candidates all stand on this.  I got the current issue of Rolling Stone in the mail today and it has an article on Obama, which I will be reading tonight. 
Oh, and Rod, about the Clintons, to quote something I read recently "when Bill lied, no one died."(Luv you man)
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline bocker3

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Re: Mitt Romney and Abortion
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2007, 07:22:45 PM »
Dachs, I dont wanna go where? Another poster suggested men have no stake in abortions. Another suggested men only oppose abortion because the want to control women, totally ludicrous. My point was if the poster,and it was not you,was married or had children he would know how idiotic his point was. You just dont get it.

Well, Jack, since you DID go there..................

I was the poster you spoke about and yes I do have children, well a child.  A 28 yr old daughter and 3 grandchildren -- including one granddaughter.  The fact that you think anyone who might be situated "like you", would automatically think like you just fits perfectly into your political bent.  Now, we might both have kids, but I promise you -- I do not think like you.  I might be offended by anyone else, but your usual bombastic replies actually don't surprise me. 

I stand by my point and don't think it is idiotic -- however I'm not sure that YOU understand it.  What I said was that I found it quite interesting that MEN are the most vocal opponents to abortion.  It is easy to oppose something in which you NEVER HAVE TO DECIDE.  Yes, men are sometimes involved in an abortion decision, but it ultimately rests with the woman and the woman alone.  I never said that men didn't have a stake, I said that their interest far exceeded any "skin" they might have in the game.

I agree with you that fathers should care about their daughters, that is why I feel that the decision to have an abortion or not should always rest with the woman and not our government.  Trust me when I say that I love my daughter and grandkids as much as anyone possibly could.  But being a father doesn't make a despot who thinks I should control the choices of other adults.

Also, to touch on your ridiculous "litmus test" argument.  Republicans regularly insist that their candidates be for or promise to put in judges who will try to overturn Roe v. Wade.  (yes, there are some pro-choice republicans, but they ain't getting to no high offices).  The Democrats "litmus test" (if you insist on calling it that), is that the decision remain with the woman and out of the hands of government.

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
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Offline strykern

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Re: Mitt Romney and Abortion
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2007, 09:14:32 PM »

The stark reality is that Mitt the Mormon has no clothes on this issue.
MtD

But he has the magic Morman underwear!  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_garment
It is what it is...

I am what I am...

Offline Pilot

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Re: Mitt Romney and Abortion
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2007, 01:38:43 AM »
A small dose of reality !!!!

Prolife.....Have you ever seen a bunch of protesters outside holding signs that they will adopt the child and take care of the medical  expenses no matter what ?  NO !

ProChoice....Have you ever seen them outside a doctors office offering to help pay for the service and take care of the mother after she has had the abortion.  No!

Politicians.... Standing around with their heads up their respective asses while they check the voting winds and have the latest polls read to them.

Solution to the problem......all females go on birth control as soon as they are able to concieve if not before.  All males will make 100 sperm deposits in a sperm bank as soon as they can produce viable sperm and then be given a vasectomy.  Why a 100 deposits ? Well for one I doubt anyone will ever father that many kids and secondly because as we all know " ITS A GUY THING"...SO DONT BITCH.




Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Mitt Romney and Abortion
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2007, 01:58:00 AM »
A small dose of reality !!!!

Prolife.....Have you ever seen a bunch of protesters outside holding signs that they will adopt the child and take care of the medical  expenses no matter what ?  NO !

ProChoice....Have you ever seen them outside a doctors office offering to help pay for the service and take care of the mother after she has had the abortion.  No!

Politicians.... Standing around with their heads up their respective asses while they check the voting winds and have the latest polls read to them.

Solution to the problem......all females go on birth control as soon as they are able to concieve if not before.  All males will make 100 sperm deposits in a sperm bank as soon as they can produce viable sperm and then be given a vasectomy.  Why a 100 deposits ? Well for one I doubt anyone will ever father that many kids and secondly because as we all know " ITS A GUY THING"...SO DONT BITCH.


And tell me, are you buying your "small doses of reality" from a friend or a street dealer?

MtD

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Mitt Romney and Abortion
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2007, 03:05:13 AM »
Quote
I read recently "when Bill lied, no one died.

You're right Betty, it was just a little jiz spot on the dress.

Offline Pilot

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Re: Mitt Romney and Abortion
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2007, 03:26:09 AM »
And tell me, are you buying your "small doses of reality" from a friend or a street dealer?

MTD


NEITHER...  Everything cost money and solutions are rarely cheap...welfare cost money...kids having kids cost money...do gooders and religious freaks with no solutions cost money.

It was on the news last night...baby found in trash can.......surprisingly DEAD its winter time here....wow...keep it...abort it..  to hell with it...throw it away. Is that real enough for you?

















Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Mitt Romney and Abortion
« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2007, 03:44:10 AM »
It was on the news last night...baby found in trash can.......surprisingly DEAD its winter time here....wow...keep it...abort it..  to hell with it...throw it away. Is that real enough for you?

Well I hope it was in the trash. Where else does one put dead babies?

MtD

Offline mjmel

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Re: Mitt Romney and Abortion
« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2007, 06:17:18 AM »

Offline BT65

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Re: Mitt Romney and Abortion
« Reply #29 on: December 19, 2007, 07:22:51 AM »
...Or live babies: http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local&id=5841453.

Mike M

Which would probably happen a hundred fold if they ever outlaw abortions. 
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline jack

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Re: Mitt Romney and Abortion
« Reply #30 on: December 19, 2007, 07:43:16 AM »
its only a litmus test if its Republicans. Think about it. The left uses this abortion issue to rally their whackjobs the same way the right does. Listen to yourselves,you all sound more crazed than the far right Christians. The fact is after 8 years of having the devil, a far right wing christian,as president, abortion is still legal. It has not been overturned or even attempted to be overturned. Abortion is still legal and NO PRESIDENT can change that fact. No Huckster can make abortion illegal. According to the left and many here W is the most far right christian ever,and he didnt even attempt to make abortion legal. You know why? Cause the president must uphold the law of the land and abortion is the law. I cant believe you all are so naive to fall for this again.
The are many reasons not to vote for Huckster, he loves to tax, he loves to spend,he thinks we should negotiate with terrorists and our enemies who want to kill us,and his only experience is running a state whose population is less than 10 US metropolitan areas and is a third world state compared to others.

Offline jack

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  • fomerly the loser known as Jake
Re: Mitt Romney and Abortion
« Reply #31 on: December 19, 2007, 07:50:36 AM »
Bocker, I apologize for being bombastic but I have no idea what you are talking about. I never said you or anyone else should think the same way I do. But thats OK,thats the way it works here, if you arent in 100% agreement with someone or the accepted point of view you are attacked.
Frankly,you guys scare me a lot more than the Far Christian Right, and they scare the shit out of me.

Offline Dachshund

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,959
Re: Mitt Romney and Abortion
« Reply #32 on: December 19, 2007, 08:16:50 AM »
As always you try to portray the "left" as you call it as the loonies. So how many pro-life rallies have been shot up or bombed by the radical left Jake? Which party puts the overturning of Roe v. Wade in their platform every four years? And as we all know by now upholding the law ain't been this administration's strong suit. That's why people vote Jake, to elect people they think will either enact or overturn laws. The pandering Republican pussy's on the hill didn't even bring repealing Roe v. Wade to the floor when they were in control. Why? because they don't dare lose a wedge issue that gets them elected.

Of course being the prolife Catholic that you are I'm sure you'd agree with the church and support a ban on the death penalty?

It matters little Jake, the pandering of your party to the Christianist's and not fullfilling your promises to them is almost scriptural. You know that reaping what you sew deal. Yes, Jakey ol' boy the right wing Christian chickens have come home to roost right in the middle of your Grand Old Party.

« Last Edit: December 19, 2007, 10:37:02 AM by Dachshund »

Offline bocker3

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,390
  • You gotta enjoy life......
Re: Mitt Romney and Abortion
« Reply #33 on: December 19, 2007, 10:07:40 AM »
I never said you or anyone else should think the same way I do.

Actually, that is exactly what you said -- look at post #17.  You said that if I (the poster) had been married or had children, I would see how idiotic my stance was.  Interp:  If I was in your situation I would think like you.
Well, I've never been married, but I do have children and I stand by my stance.  I've noted that you remain silent on your assumption here -- but no matter, I've made my point.

The "Left" isn't trying to anything extreme -- they just want medical decisions left up to the woman who needs to make them.  If someone's religious or moral compass dictates that they can't have an abortion, then they needn't have one - the CHOICE is theirs, not the government's.

I think Dachs did a marvelous job at explaining why W. hasn't tried to overturn Roe (although, his Supreme Court nominees might yet do so.....).  He won in 2004 by using a different wedge issue -- GAYS.  He certainly hasn't followed through on his "promise" to get a constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage for the same reason he hasn't seriously attempted to ban abortion -- these issues help elect politicians like him.

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Offline Jnm594

  • Member
  • Posts: 111
  • Fight! Fight! Fight the Good Fight!
Re: Mitt Romney and Abortion
« Reply #34 on: December 19, 2007, 01:33:59 PM »
Damn......Maybe we should change the topic to something less controversial? How about Gun Control? No, lets try Iraq? Nope....I got it! How about Fred Phelps is a closet queen?
When it gets hard I always listen to my favorite song of all time..........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJEYu3KgWCE

 


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