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Author Topic: HIV meds in urine?  (Read 6025 times)

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Offline GruvyPunk

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HIV meds in urine?
« on: December 10, 2007, 09:52:30 PM »
I have a serious question (and please don't waste your or my time with flames) about the presence of HIV meds in piss.  My BF drinks my piss regularly, we also engage in "high risk" other sex activities.  He isn't a chaser but is aware of my status and accepts the risks.  It has been almost 2 years and we just found out he is neg.  Obviously I think this is a good thing, but leaves both of us wondering.  We've heard you can get "high" off someone's piss that has been using.  It is fact that some of the HIV meds can be used as prophylactics.  So we wonder, is his still being neg luck or has he been getting some sort of protective dose of my meds by drinking my piss daily?  I've found no studies that have examined this so we would like the opinions of anyone's (with a medical or scientific background) ideas.  I don't want someone that claims to be a doctor to declare this the case, but am curious if it seems medically plausible.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: HIV meds in urine?
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2007, 10:09:43 PM »
I have a serious question (and please don't waste your or my time with flames) about the presence of HIV meds in piss.  My BF drinks my piss regularly, we also engage in "high risk" other sex activities.  He isn't a chaser but is aware of my status and accepts the risks.  It has been almost 2 years and we just found out he is neg.  Obviously I think this is a good thing, but leaves both of us wondering.  We've heard you can get "high" off someone's piss that has been using.  It is fact that some of the HIV meds can be used as prophylactics.  So we wonder, is his still being neg luck or has he been getting some sort of protective dose of my meds by drinking my piss daily?  I've found no studies that have examined this so we would like the opinions of anyone's (with a medical or scientific background) ideas.  I don't want someone that claims to be a doctor to declare this the case, but am curious if it seems medically plausible.

Does he drink your piss neat or add tonic?

MtD

Offline GruvyPunk

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Re: HIV meds in urine?
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2007, 10:27:01 PM »
Does he drink your piss neat or add tonic?

Please - this is a serious question.  I'm not going into any more detail than already stated, this is not a sex site.

Offline fearless

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Re: HIV meds in urine?
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2007, 11:28:02 PM »
Funny, only two weeks ago in your loss of libido thread you said " I haven't really had sex in over a year and I just don't think about it at all, can't get into it, but I want to.  I used to enjoy sex and I'd like to be able to get my BF off again"

You wouldn't be taking the piss out of us now would you  ;D
Be forgiving, be grateful, be optimistic

Offline GruvyPunk

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Re: HIV meds in urine?
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2007, 11:33:26 PM »
Funny, only two weeks ago in your loss of libido thread you said " I haven't really had sex in over a year and I just don't think about it at all, can't get into it, but I want to.  I used to enjoy sex and I'd like to be able to get my BF off again"

You wouldn't be taking the piss out of us now would you  ;D


well this thread is actually for friends of mine too scared to make an account here (I don't understand why) but I figured if I opened with "my friends..." everyone would be like "yea, whatever, that always means it's you"  so I just said it's me to make things easier.  Anyway, the question still stands, anyone know anything about this?

Offline thunter34

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Re: HIV meds in urine?
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2007, 11:46:54 PM »
to your friends, i would say:  if you are engaging in all sorts of high risk behavior, but are too afraid to even create an anonymous account on a website to gain information for yourselves and are relying on piss passed Pr-EP as your best defense against HIV, well...

my best guess is urine for a rude awakening one of these days.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: HIV meds in urine?
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2007, 12:13:28 AM »
No guys let's get serious here. The question has not been answered properly.

Does a christian lady drink her urine neat or does she add tonic? Enquiring minds have to know!

MtD

Offline GruvyPunk

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Re: HIV meds in urine?
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2007, 12:27:33 AM »
...Does a christian lady drink her urine neat...

I honestly have no idea what that means... but lets just say straight from the tap with no spills (so I hear and have seen).

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: HIV meds in urine?
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2007, 12:31:15 AM »
I honestly have no idea what that means... but lets just say straight from the tap with no spills (so I hear and have seen).

Well now this is getting more interesting. Does he like it chilled or warm from the teat, so to speak?

MtD

Offline GruvyPunk

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Re: HIV meds in urine?
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2007, 12:33:45 AM »
I honestly have no idea what that means... but lets just say straight from the tap with no spills (so I hear and have seen).

Well now this is getting more interesting. Does he like it chilled or warm from the teat, so to speak?

MtD

Well from the tap means right from the sources so I'd say aprox 98.6°F in most cases.

Offline Cerrid

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Re: HIV meds in urine?
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2007, 06:33:24 AM »
Well from the tap means right from the sources so I'd say aprox 98.6°F in most cases.

For a second-hand beer, that's wayyyyy too warm!!!

For a recycled fruit tea it's alright.
"Boredom is always counterrevolutionary. Always." (Guy Debord)

Offline wishful

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Re: HIV meds in urine?
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2007, 09:12:43 AM »
WOW  ::) ??? :o
Live life to the fullest...

Offline Nico

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Re: HIV meds in urine?
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2007, 09:25:06 AM »
For a second-hand beer, that's wayyyyy too warm!!!

For a recycled fruit tea it's alright.

Do you suggest a twist of lemon with the fruit tea?  One wants to be proper when sipping from the source.  Is this high tea?  One also wants to be dressed for the occasion, you know the proper knee pads make all the difference.
Poz since 1990.

Offline Ann

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Re: HIV meds in urine?
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2007, 09:44:58 AM »
Punk,

Urine from the tap is sterile (except in the presence of a UTI) and urine isn't infectious for hiv, so drinking urine doesn't get classed as a "high risk activity". In fact, watersports are considered to be a "safe sex" activity.

As for whether or not antiretrovirals would be present in piss in any sort of intact state where they'd be effective as a prophylactic, I rather doubt it. I would think they'd be broken down too far by the time they ended up in the bladder - or your mate's mouth.

Ann
(who is off for a shower of the non-golden variety) ;)

Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Queen Tokelove

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Re: HIV meds in urine?
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2007, 07:10:49 PM »
*shudders* I am so like EEEEEEwwwwwwww!!!!!! I like to consider myself to be pretty open about most things but what does one get out of being pissed on or drinking another's piss? I guess I am just a prude.... ;D
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
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Offline GruvyPunk

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Re: HIV meds in urine?
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2007, 09:17:34 PM »
Punk,

Urine from the tap is sterile (except in the presence of a UTI) and urine isn't infectious for hiv, so drinking urine doesn't get classed as a "high risk activity". In fact, watersports are considered to be a "safe sex" activity.

As for whether or not antiretrovirals would be present in piss in any sort of intact state where they'd be effective as a prophylactic, I rather doubt it. I would think they'd be broken down too far by the time they ended up in the bladder - or your mate's mouth.

Ann
(who is off for a shower of the non-golden variety) ;)

That wasn't the high risk activity, I know watersports is generally safe, I said other high risk activity (like penetration without condoms and so on).

Offline thunter34

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Re: HIV meds in urine?
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2007, 09:20:53 PM »
Is this high tea? 

I'd bank on it, Rog.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: HIV meds in urine?
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2007, 09:21:01 PM »
Yeah we know what you're asking.

You're asking if your friend will be protected from infection if he drinks your piss because you're on medication.

Really this is pretty dumb. No your medicated piss will not protect him from infection if you fuck him bare back. Only condoms will protect him.

Use your brains.

MtD

Offline Cerrid

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Re: HIV meds in urine?
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2007, 03:25:55 AM »
So we wonder, is his still being neg luck or has he been getting some sort of protective dose of my meds by drinking my piss daily?

Alright, to get this straight: No, it's not just luck. Nor is it in the piss. Since you're on meds, it's likely you have an undetectable viral load in blood and in semen, too. Undetectable doesn't mean there are no virions at all, but the concentration is very low. Probably too low to cause an infection if you have unprotected sex with your partner. In this case, transmission is very unlikely, the risk to pass on the infection is slim to none.

Still, the viral load is a beast and can rise, even temporarily, without you knowing it. A common cold could be sufficient for that. Therefore, you should use a condom to protect your partner from HIV - and to protect yourself from other nasty bugs which may complicate your HIV infection.
"Boredom is always counterrevolutionary. Always." (Guy Debord)

Offline Ann

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Re: HIV meds in urine?
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2007, 06:14:16 AM »
That wasn't the high risk activity, I know watersports is generally safe, I said other high risk activity (like penetration without condoms and so on).

I was putting it out there as a general FYI. Other people are reading this thread besides you, ya know. ;)

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Ann

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Re: HIV meds in urine?
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2007, 07:07:35 AM »
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline RapidRod

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Re: HIV meds in urine?
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2007, 08:04:45 AM »

Offline Ann

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Re: HIV meds in urine?
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2007, 08:09:39 AM »
Isn't that theft? :D

Not when it's consensual! ;)
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline wishful

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Re: HIV meds in urine?
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2007, 09:52:20 AM »
Im with you Queen...but it is rather interesting....i think....Whatever FLOATS ur boat.....I learn so much here!

Ann: *taking the piss* EEEWWWWWW...lololo
Live life to the fullest...

Offline sdcabincrew74

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Re: HIV meds in urine?
« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2007, 01:45:48 AM »
Ok, I will bite on this.  I highly doubt that there is much left in your urine in relationship to your HIV meds.  I mean, I am sure there is some but most likely not enough for any real protection.  As for getting high from someones Tina piss, oh yes, that does happen but I do not think things like Tina are broken down as completely by the body as your meds. 

Now, as for high risk sex and your partner is still neg?  Well, that can change or it can stay the same.  My partner and I are in no way safe and I was poz for a while before we knew and I usually topped and did not pull out.  He came out neg, for whatever reason.  So, I do not question small miracles.  We still fuck bareback, even me as a top but I always pull out and to this day he is neg.  However, I will admit he is more top now and I am more bottom which helps do away with some of the risk.

In your case, I think you may want to stop cumming in your boyfriend if you want him to stay neg.  Everybody's luck runs out someday and could you really live with yourself if you infected the person you love the most with a deadly virus?  Not judging, just simply making sure you see the possible guilt that could come your way....

ps - if that theory about drinking from the tap would keep you safe actually worked, I would not be poz.....
« Last Edit: December 15, 2007, 01:52:50 AM by sdcabincrew74 »
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Offline pozguy75

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Re: HIV meds in urine?
« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2007, 11:49:00 AM »
Um, If you think that your BF drinking your piss will in some way provide him the benefit of your taking MEDs...you are truly fooling yourself. Remember that pissing is your body's way of getting rid of waste...now that being said, I happen to enjoy piss play quite a bit...but, if your are having bareback sex, then yea, your playing with a ticking time bomb.

I am still shocked that you would think that drinking your piss would some how pass your meds on to him...

I mean, we have to take high doses and frequently just to keep the antiviral levels high enough in our own bodies on a regular dosing schedule...now passing them on second hand like that, there is no affect at all.

Hey, I am all about having fun and pushing the envelope...but I would seriously encourage you to read some of the lessons offered here on this site...

Just sayin...
Dx 2005
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: HIV meds in urine?
« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2007, 12:41:12 PM »
Taking the piss!

I'll raise you 10, dear!

(I can't believe that I've missed this stellar thread for 5 days)


"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline Ann

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Re: HIV meds in urine?
« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2007, 07:22:54 PM »


(I can't believe that I've missed this stellar thread for 5 days)


I can't effin believe you missed it either! But, tough poopies, my link wins. There's no padlock in your photo.

Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline pozguy75

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Re: HIV meds in urine?
« Reply #28 on: December 16, 2007, 08:25:21 AM »
I can't effin believe you missed it either! But, tough poopies, my link wins. There's no padlock in your photo.




But I raise it...oh never mind!
Dx 2005
ATRIPLA

Offline Grasshopper

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Re: HIV meds in urine?
« Reply #29 on: December 16, 2007, 08:42:16 AM »
...............

I am still shocked that you would think that drinking your piss would some how pass your meds on to him...

I mean, we have to take high doses and frequently just to keep the antiviral levels high enough in our own bodies on a regular dosing schedule...now passing them on second hand like that, there is no affect at all.



If anything else, I see mayor meds resistance problems, if he were to test positive(God forbid).

Offline Queen Tokelove

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Re: HIV meds in urine?
« Reply #30 on: December 16, 2007, 05:27:26 PM »
Im with you Queen...but it is rather interesting....i think....Whatever FLOATS ur boat.....I learn so much here!

Ann: *taking the piss* EEEWWWWWW...lololo

You ain't never lied.... ;) Always something new to be learned in these forums, gf. I take mental notes.... ;D
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
2/6/08 CD4- 401 VL- undetectable
5/7/08 CD4- 705 VL- undetectable
6/4/08 CD4- 775 VL- undetectable
8/6/08 CD4- 805 VL- undetectable
11/13/08 CD4- 774 VL--undetectable
2/4/09  CD4- 484  VL- 18,000 (2 months off meds)
3/3/09---Starting Back on Meds---
4/27/09 CD4- 664 VL-- undetectable
6/17/09 CD4- 438 VL- 439
8/09 CD4- 404 VL- 1,600
01-22-10-- CD4- 525 VL- 59,000
Cherish the simple things life has to offer

The Royal Blog

Offline CowboyPOZ

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Re: HIV meds in urine?
« Reply #31 on: December 17, 2007, 01:29:46 AM »
hep vaccinations? I hope so. Piss play is considered safe. Just be consentual and make sure everyone knows all risks involved no matter how low the risk may be, there is still a low risk when body fluids are exchanged.
Most of all if you found someone who is into it as much as you are have some fun for Gods sake. We are only here for a little while so make your time here the most joyful for you that it can be.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: HIV meds in urine?
« Reply #32 on: December 17, 2007, 01:35:40 AM »
there is still a low risk when body fluids are exchanged.

There is no risk of HIV being transmitted through urine.

MtD

BobF

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Re: HIV meds in urine?
« Reply #33 on: December 17, 2007, 04:43:24 PM »
I've been told the same thing:   there is no risk of HIV infection by drinking piss, but there is a small risk of other infections according to my Doc.  Basically, I got the sense that it's fine to enjoy in most cases  ;)


Offline milker

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Re: HIV meds in urine?
« Reply #34 on: December 17, 2007, 10:31:01 PM »
There is a very small percentage of drug that will go unchanged in urine. For example, lopinavir is excreted unchanged for less than 3%. The rest will be metabolized by the liver enzymes and will break down, the result being a non-active protein based on the medication but showing up as a toxin in urine. Some urine drug tests will show positive for marijuana if you take efavirenz because the toxins eliminated by the drug "look like" the ones eliminated by marijuana. Efavirenz itself has been shown to be excreted in the urine for less than 1.5% unchanged on average using radiolabelled doses.

Drinking your hiv+ urine exposes you to his meds to a certain point, but not enough to give you any level of therapy, and not enough to give you any resistance in case you are yourself hiv+ too.

There is a misunderstanding as why drug tests show positive results for say marijuana but yet urine is supposed to be sterile. Urine is sterile meaning it does not convey viruses, bacteria, etc.. but it does convey broken down proteins, very small molecules, which are the ones tested. Let's say that efavirenz is a protein that looks like this:

ABCDEFABCDEFGHI

and Marijuana looks like this

GHIJKLABZ

When both are broken down in the liver, we can find small proteins (called peptides) that are the pieces that made a protein. One piece could be a part of the initial protein that after being broken down looks like "GHI". If a drug test looks for the peptide "GHI" as a marijuana marker, it will find it too if you take efavirenz.

It is important to note that although urine is "safe", it can pick up bacteria and other stuff that can be found on the penis or the vagina, and transmit it to you.

Milker.
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Offline minismom

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Re: HIV meds in urine?
« Reply #35 on: December 18, 2007, 03:55:43 PM »
If one goes in for a drug test for work,  how do you show that it's caused from the meds?  Does a note from the doctor suffice or is there another kind of test they can do?
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Offline milker

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Re: HIV meds in urine?
« Reply #36 on: December 18, 2007, 11:52:19 PM »
If one goes in for a drug test for work,  how do you show that it's caused from the meds?  Does a note from the doctor suffice or is there another kind of test they can do?
Both. I would check with your doctor, he or she should know what medication gives a risk of false positive. They don't have to tell what meds you're on, they can warn the lab so a different sensitivity test can be done.

Milker.
mid-dec: stupid ass
mid-jan: seroconversion
mid-feb: poz
mar 07: cd4 432 (35%) vl 54000
may 07: cd4 399 (28%) vl 27760
jul 07: cd4 403 (26%) vl 99241
oct 07: cd4 353 (24%) vl 29993
jan 08: cd4 332 (26%) vl 33308
mar 08: cd4 392 (23%) vl 75548
jun 08: cd4 325 (27%) vl 45880
oct 08: cd4 197 (20%) vl 154000 <== aids diagnosis
nov 2 08 start Atripla
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apr 23 09: cd4 604 (29%) vl 50 woohoo :D :D
jul 30 09: cd4 512 (29%) vl undetectable :D :D
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Offline red_Dragon888

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Re: HIV meds in urine?
« Reply #37 on: December 20, 2007, 09:03:00 AM »
just have your bf get tested.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I3ba3lnFHik

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