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Author Topic: Cost of Living with HIV  (Read 8632 times)

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Offline allopathicholistic

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  • Posts: 3,258
Re: Cost of Living with HIV
« Reply #50 on: January 01, 2008, 09:07:31 AM »
I didnt go though every post but did anyone see Micheal Moore's Movie "Sicko"
Its a must see to me..

Yes see replies #7, 8, 10, 12, 16, 20, 39, 43 ...........I saw it and I agree it's a must-see. If you haven't seen it, know that the movie involves not only sickness but also death  :'(





Offline Joe K

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  • 31 Years Poz
Re: Cost of Living with HIV
« Reply #51 on: January 01, 2008, 09:14:49 AM »
If you want to understand why it is so hard to change the American health care system, you need look no further than this very thread.  There are so many misunderstandings and misused words that often we are not even all talking about the same issue.  For example, there is no such thing as "free" health care as everything has a cost.  What most people mean when they say free is universal health care, which implies that health care would be available to all citizens of a particular country.

You also cannot scream about how much any portion of your medical costs are because they must be viewed together to have any meaningful discussion of how to control those costs.  Sadly the costs for our system are far too high and the most meaningful way of looking at health care costs is as a percentage of Gross National Product (GNP).  I know, economics, how boring, but it does tell a sorry tale.  Many countries with universal health care pay somewhere around 8-9% of their countries GNP on health care.  The figure in the US is closer to 15% and when you factor in our very high GNP we are paying through the nose for health care that is not worth those extra hundreds of billions of dollars per year.

And do not be fooled into thinking that all that money is improving our standard of care, because most of it is eaten up by administrative costs.  Another example, Medicare, which covers over 50 million Americans has administrative costs of about 3 cents out of each dollar.  So it costs them $103 to provide $100 worth of medical care.  Not bad at all for a government run program.  Actually it is very low when compared with the 12-15% average administrative costs of a for-profit organization.  But again, these costs do nothing to improve the quality of care, just the cost to provide it.  Yet all of this is so intertwined that it is very hard, if not impossible to separate all the factors.

Reform will come to the US system, when the cost of not reforming becomes just too high.  To do any of this will require major rewrites of many areas of law, from benefit legislation to liability, malpractice and at some point, we must take the "profit" out of health care.  Until we are willing to do that, our current system will remain a patchwork of programs and benefits that create challenges for all Americans.

And just to set the record straight, the health care bill for children just vetoed by Bush, would have raised the cap for earnings for a family of four to $48,740 per year, hardly the $100K previously mentioned.

Offline leatherman

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Re: Cost of Living with HIV
« Reply #52 on: January 01, 2008, 10:26:13 AM »
I mean Bush vetoed a bill to give more children access to doctors calling it to close to socialized medicine.

not trying to hijack the thread but I'm glad s-chip failed as it was being financed on the backs of smokers (I stopped smoking just over 2 months ago  ;) ) while the gov't tries to stop smoking. Not a very wise way to guarantee financing for kids health care.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline bocker3

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Re: Cost of Living with HIV
« Reply #53 on: January 01, 2008, 11:00:32 AM »
not trying to hijack the thread but I'm glad s-chip failed as it was being financed on the backs of smokers (I stopped smoking just over 2 months ago  ;) ) while the gov't tries to stop smoking. Not a very wise way to guarantee financing for kids health care.

Actually, this might not be so bad -- if smoking gets prohibitively expensive, some folks will quit, thus lessening health related costs for them down the road.  True, these won't be kids -- although the cost may prevent some kids from ever starting. 
While I have to agree that it isn't the strongest foundation for funding kid's health care, the fact is that if the cigarette tax revenue actually ever did decrease to a level too low to support this, money would be gotten from somewhere else -- perhaps the savings from fewer smoking related expenses in Medicaid and Medicare.
Bottomline -- tax the hell out of cigarettes, it's a tax that can be avoided, but most won't. (Yes, I am an ex-smoker)
Of course, Universal care would be better -- but I'm not expecting to see it in my lifetime.

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline BT65

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Re: Cost of Living with HIV
« Reply #54 on: January 01, 2008, 12:44:47 PM »
OK, here in Hoosierville, they've taxed and taxed cigarettes (I am an ex-smoker as well).  The tax on alcohol over the past almost 20 years has only increased about 2%.  The price of a case of beer cost almost what it did when I was drinking in the late 80's.  What if somehow a drug company comes up with a "magic" cure for smoking and the majority of people quit?  Where are they going to get the money from then?  I say, increase the tax on the booze.  Be fair.
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline bocker3

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  • You gotta enjoy life......
Re: Cost of Living with HIV
« Reply #55 on: January 01, 2008, 12:53:58 PM »
OK, here in Hoosierville, they've taxed and taxed cigarettes (I am an ex-smoker as well).  The tax on alcohol over the past almost 20 years has only increased about 2%.  The price of a case of beer cost almost what it did when I was drinking in the late 80's.  What if somehow a drug company comes up with a "magic" cure for smoking and the majority of people quit?  Where are they going to get the money from then?  I say, increase the tax on the booze.  Be fair.

I'm fine with any "vice taxes" (here in Virginia, they are loath to raise tobacco taxes) -- but read my last post -- if people were to quit, en masse, the savings in health care expenditures from people no longer killing themselves with cigarettes would help mitigate the lose in revenue.

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline leatherman

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Re: Cost of Living with HIV
« Reply #56 on: January 01, 2008, 01:21:02 PM »
I'm fine with any "vice taxes"

not me. I think we all should be able to do whatever we want with our lives. Ski down hill (and smash into a tree), smoke a cig, take drugs, drive a race car, etc. - as long as we pay  taxes and aren't hurting others. Otherwise WHO gets to decide the "vice"? Why should cigarette smokers pay for other's health care? Why shouldn't over-eaters be taxed extra? Or anyone that doesn't exercise?

This gets back to what others have said on this thread. Americans don't pay for our healthcare in reasonable ways. Rather than tax the "vices", why not a tax on everyone and give everyone basic healthcare? Demanding that the unhealthy (the smokers) pay for the healthy (as in the children with s-chip) peoples insurance without paying for the unhealthy's medical treatment (as a smoker paying the taxes NO ONE would cover the cost of the Chantix for me to stop smoking. I paid for it myself) is just dumb.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline bocker3

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  • Posts: 3,386
  • You gotta enjoy life......
Re: Cost of Living with HIV
« Reply #57 on: January 01, 2008, 02:11:54 PM »
not me. I think we all should be able to do whatever we want with our lives. Ski down hill (and smash into a tree), smoke a cig, take drugs, drive a race car, etc. - as long as we pay  taxes and aren't hurting others. Otherwise WHO gets to decide the "vice"? Why should cigarette smokers pay for other's health care? Why shouldn't over-eaters be taxed extra? Or anyone that doesn't exercise?

This gets back to what others have said on this thread. Americans don't pay for our healthcare in reasonable ways. Rather than tax the "vices", why not a tax on everyone and give everyone basic healthcare? Demanding that the unhealthy (the smokers) pay for the healthy (as in the children with s-chip) peoples insurance without paying for the unhealthy's medical treatment (as a smoker paying the taxes NO ONE would cover the cost of the Chantix for me to stop smoking. I paid for it myself) is just dumb.

Your argument goes back to the need for Universal Health Care -- a position I wholeheartedly agree with.  However, given where we are, I have no problem with taxing things like cigarettes and alcohol, because, unlike food, people can live perfectly fine without them.  Therefore, no one is "demanding that the unhealthy pay" for anything -- it's is there choice. 

Now, there is definitely someone making judgement calls here -- but seeing as we are no where near doing what is needed (i.e. taxing everyone and covering everyone's healthcare), we should be doing something.  Insuring that children get a good start seems to make a lot of sense to me.

Finally, the old argument that one group shouldn't have to pay taxes to support some other group when they don't get the same thing is useless.  Everybody pays taxes that are used to do something they either do not agree with (Iraq, for example) or don't use (welfare, for example).  This has always been and will always be -- I do my fair share of "supporting" others through my taxes -- and I happen to think that I SHOULD be doing this, so I'm not complaining.  Yes, I'd like lower taxes just like almost everyone -- but I don't want to have mine cut on the backs of folks less fortunate than I.  Not to mention, I want the safety net there for me, if my circumstances change -- I may not always have my current salary or my current insurance.

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline J.R.E.

  • Member
  • Posts: 7,153
  • Joined Dec-2003 Living positive, since 1985.
Re: Cost of Living with HIV
« Reply #58 on: January 01, 2008, 04:58:44 PM »
Hi there,

I am one of those that very rarely throw things away. Still got my original positive diagnosis from the county health Dept. from 1985. I keep receipts, all that stuff. I sorted by date and bundled all my pharmacutical/ doctor / specialists, receipts for 2007. Over the past 4 1/2 years, I have quite a stack !The 2007 stack is about two inches thick, and rubber banded very tightly. I used to sit down at the end of the year with the calculator, and figure out exactly what I spent, and what insurance paid, over the past year. I may sit down and do it for 2007... But then again maybe not...Depresses me too much.

On another note Aetna officially ended yesterday, and I am now on Humana. I am going to the doctors office tomorrow, to let them copy the new insurance card, and I've got to go to Walgreens to give the new insurance carrier information to them. I did mange to squeeze an extra month of meds out of Aetna. I didn't think they would do it, but they did. I now have a little back up meds, just in case of emergency. I am thankful to have insurance, I couldn't afford it either.


Ray
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

 As of 8/2514,  t-cells are at 402, Viral load <40

 Current % is at 11%

  
 62 years young.

 


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