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Author Topic: Weaaaaaahhhh good labs  (Read 1693 times)

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Offline John2038

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Weaaaaaahhhh good labs
« on: December 03, 2007, 11:18:42 AM »
Thanks God.

CD4 / VL / %

Sept 26 (pm):     509 / 1732 / 18.7%
Nov 7 (am):        381 / 5030 / 17.2%
Nov 12 (pm):      543 / -       / 18.2%
Nov 19 (am):      364 / -       / 24.29%
Nov 20 (pm) :     487 / 3371 / 18.03% (follow-up -pm)
Nov 21 (am):      483 / 3300 / 18.2%
Dec 02 (pm):      608 /PENDING/ 20.49%

Neutrophilis  x10^9/L (reference = 2.0-7.5)

Sept 26, 2007 26%   1.32
Nov 07, 2007   8.4%  0.29
Nov 14, 2007  14.3% 0.62
Nov 17, 2007  24.5% 0.77
Nov 21, 2007  28.2% 1.62
Dec 02, 2007  37.2% 2.10


Lymphocytes x10^9/L (reference = 1.0-4.0)

Sept 26, 2007 65.0% 3.29
Nov 07, 2007  74.8% 2.63
Nov 14, 2007  72.6% 3.14
Nov 17, 2007  63.4% 1.99
Nov 21, 2007  65.1% 3.74
Dec 02, 2007  54.6% 3.08


Wishing you great labs as well !

Note: Wondering if the Selenium + Zinc + Buchu taken since 2-3 weeks have contribute to this increases.

Offline keyite

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Re: Weaaaaaahhhh good labs
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2007, 11:26:29 AM »
Congrats! The little buggers do bounce around, don't they? Like with yours I've also noticed that I seem to get higher CD4 counts in the PM than in the AM. Why that would be, I have no idea...

Offline John2038

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Re: Weaaaaaahhhh good labs
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2007, 11:58:55 AM »
Yours are great as well :) Same as 1 year ago

Indeed, on the afternoon, the counts looks much better.
But I will continue to alternate, to know the range.

Just curious, have we have comparable counts:
What are your criteria to consider taking meds ?

Offline keyite

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Re: Weaaaaaahhhh good labs
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2007, 12:09:29 PM »
My conclusion is to start when there is a consistent CD4 trend at 350 or below and/or a VL consistently >100,000. Of course, this is how I want to handle it for my own care - others may well feel very differently.


Offline minismom

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Re: Weaaaaaahhhh good labs
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2007, 02:08:43 PM »
Mini and Mum are baking a cake to celebrate all the awesome labs that have come through recently.  John, we're decorating yours with loads of germ-free moochies :-* :-* :-* :-*
www.watoto.com
www.MotherBearProject.org
"Whichever way you throw me, i will stand"
"Don't worry about the world coming to an end today...it's already tomorrow in Australia"  Charles Schultz

Offline John2038

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Re: Weaaaaaahhhh good labs
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2007, 02:26:04 PM »
Thank's Mini and Mum !  :-* :-*

John, who is wondering what a moochie is

Offline David_CA

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Re: Weaaaaaahhhh good labs
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2007, 03:22:07 PM »
Congrats on the good numbers!
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Weaaaaaahhhh good labs
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2007, 04:08:06 PM »
Way to go, John. You got a really good holiday present and EARLY.

Cheers,
Andy Velez

Offline minismom

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Re: Weaaaaaahhhh good labs
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2007, 10:34:45 PM »
John,
moochie=big, wet, messy smoochies (kisses)  :-* :-* :-*

Our's, of course, are cootie (germ)-free ;D

Mum
www.watoto.com
www.MotherBearProject.org
"Whichever way you throw me, i will stand"
"Don't worry about the world coming to an end today...it's already tomorrow in Australia"  Charles Schultz

Offline John2038

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Re: Weaaaaaahhhh good labs
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2007, 12:00:13 PM »
Thanks David, Andy and minismom   :)

Otherwise, VL not good: 17'132

The end of the pseudo immunity I guess.

Jan 01, 08 will start med if the VL doesn't decrease.

But happy to have the neutrophilis back in the standard range.
That was a major point of concern.

God bless you all.

Offline keyite

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Re: Weaaaaaahhhh good labs
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2007, 12:16:39 PM »
John, only increases in VL that vary by more than one log (10 times more or less than the previous result) are significant. An increase from 3K to 17K is therefore not significant (but 30K+ would have been). The new figure is in any event still a relatively low VL.

Glad to hear about the neutrophilis... ;)

Offline John2038

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Re: Weaaaaaahhhh good labs
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2007, 12:34:08 PM »

keyite

Assuming people are doing their test every 3 months, then I got an increase by 10 in 2 months:

Sept 26 (pm):     509 / 1732 / 18.7%
Dec 02 (pm):      608 /17132/ 20.49%

No ?


Note

About your counts, you are very Zen aren't you ?   :)

03/07   370   30   240,000
05/07   394   25   86,828

You did the next test 2 months later.
And you was right:

11/07   444   33   20,000

Congratulations !!

General questions

1) Does the fact to not be on meds have any impact on the resistance ?
2) How long time does it take in average before becoming resitant to a combo ?



Offline StrongGuy

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Re: Weaaaaaahhhh good labs
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2007, 12:45:05 PM »
Congratulations, John!
"Get your medical advice from Doctors or medical professionals who you trust and know your history."

"Beware of the fortune teller doom and gloomers who seek to bring you down and are only looking for company, purpose and validation - not your best physical/mental interests."

"You know you all are saying that this is incurable. When the real thing you should be saying is it's not curable at the present time' because as we know, the great strides we've made in medicine." - Elizabeth Edwards

Offline keyite

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Re: Weaaaaaahhhh good labs
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2007, 12:57:49 PM »
Assuming people are doing their test every 3 months, then I got an increase by 10 in 2 months:

Sept 26 (pm):     509 / 1732 / 18.7%
Dec 02 (pm):      608 /17132/ 20.49%

No ?

True, but you forget numbers have gone up and down in between those two figures. There isn't a trend forming yet. I know it's easy to get blinded by these numbers but try not to read too much into them. There is a fair margin of error to the viral load test, numbers naturally jump around a fair bit, and you are still very much at the low of viral loads. I'd worry if you were >100,000 - you're thankfully nowhere near.

About your counts, you are very Zen aren't you ?   :)

You think? Not feeling particularly 'zen' this evening... :-\ But if anything, my numbers illustrate just how much VL can bounce around.

1) Does the fact to not be on meds have any impact on the resistance ?
2) How long time does it take in average before becoming resitant to a combo ?

1. The virus mutates constantly, so I guess it is possible to develop resistance whilst not on meds but I don't think it's something that happens often.
2. Varies hugely, so I think an average probably will be pretty useless to individual care. Some it could be just months, others decades. Spoke to a bloke the other day who'd been on the same combo for 12 years.

Offline John2038

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Re: Weaaaaaahhhh good labs
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2007, 03:08:27 PM »
keyite

As we have comparable counts, I was just willing to share a very personal opinion about when to start a treatment:
I believe treatment must be started straight away after the diagnosis, even for CD4>500 and VL<100k

That was my feeling on Oct 10th,
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=16211.msg205969#msg205969

and I have use the time since to get a better idea if its really a good idea.
In more, I was hoping my VL to remind below 5k, and delaying a treatment due to the very low level of neutrophilis (was 290 1 month ago, 2100 today).

Well, I can't demonstrate this feeling of course.
But a virus is damaging the immune system, whatever the CD4 are.
Also, it's the door open to OI and non-OI disease, including brain damage.

I don't know if the CD4 the lab is returning is about healthy CD4 or all CD4, including those infected.
But I believe its the latter, making this count meaningless.

Another point is that the most recents studies never denies that an earlier treatment is an option.
Many SMART study reports goes in that direction as well (starting at CD4>500, or straight away after the diagnosis).

Again, its a very personal point of view, and everybody will have his own idea.
I was just willing to share mine.

Good Luck to all of us, whatever is our choice.

Offline keyite

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Re: Weaaaaaahhhh good labs
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2007, 06:19:18 PM »
John, that's certainly a school of thought which is gaining a following and you should absolutely follow your instinct - it is your body, after all.

I obviously misunderstood what you wrote because I thought you were basing the decision on whether to initiate treatment on your viral load - obviously this factor doesn't really matter, since you'd want to start anyway. Good luck with it! :)

 


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