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Author Topic: PCR, ELisa or symptoms - what to trust??  (Read 3778 times)

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Offline andrews229

  • Member
  • Posts: 8
PCR, ELisa or symptoms - what to trust??
« on: December 01, 2007, 12:20:30 PM »
Hi everyone,

After a high risk exposure and lots of real symptoms, I had three negative (less than 400) RNA PCR taken with 8, 15 and 27 days after exposure.

I also got an Elisa 4th gen. with 1, 2, 4, 5 and 6 weeks after exposure.

My doctor said I'm ok, but he told me to come back in february for reavaliation.
Right now I have bad muscle and joint pain, had some diarrea and a rash over my trunk.

How big is the possibility of been infected??
Should I trust the PCR, the Elisa or the symptoms??


Thanks a lot.

Offline Andy Velez

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  • Posts: 24,955
Re: PCR, ELisa or symptoms - what to trust??
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2007, 12:28:04 PM »
Symptoms, neither the presence or absence of, ought ever to be the basis for knowing anything reliable about your HIV status.

Only an HIV test taken at the CDC recommended testing point of 13 weeks after a risky incident can give you a conclusive answer to that question.

What was the original risk you are referring to?

A negative at 6 weeks is very encouraging. The average time to seroconversion is 22 days. All but the very smallest number of those who are going to seroconvert will do so within 4-6 weeks after an exposure to the virus. So you are well on your way to getting an all clear at 13 weeks.

If your symptoms persist that's something to discuss with your doctor. There certainly is nothing HIV specific about what you are reporting. 
Andy Velez

Offline andrews229

  • Member
  • Posts: 8
Re: PCR, ELisa or symptoms - what to trust??
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2007, 03:38:29 PM »
Well,
Thanks for your comment Velez?
I was drunk and I got one hour insertive oral sex with two prostitutes. From the episode I got non gonococical urethritis, wich I have treated.
What do you think??
I'm pretty sure I got it.

Offline Ann

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  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: PCR, ELisa or symptoms - what to trust??
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2007, 03:50:43 PM »
andrew,

Getting a blowjob is NOT a risk for hiv infection. You've been worrying and testing for no good reason. I'm amazed that your doctor ordered so much unnecessary (and expensive, in the case of PCRs) testing - is he getting kickbacks from the lab or what? Wow.

You did not have a risk and your test results will not change in relation to this incident.

You ARE hiv negative.

Here's how to stay that way:

You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL sexually transmitted infections together. To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with an STI. Sex with a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.

Have a look through all three condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.

Although you DO NOT need further testing over these blowjobs, anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.

If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results. Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.

Ann
« Last Edit: December 01, 2007, 03:52:56 PM by Ann »
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline andrews229

  • Member
  • Posts: 8
Re: PCR, ELisa or symptoms - what to trust??
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2007, 02:31:20 AM »
Thanks Ann.
The problems is that I'm withh all symptoms, and today my Leucocytes count were 9000 and lymphocyte 16%.
That bad sign.
I'm just feeling ok right now, and I have my last ultrasensive PCR on course.
After that I intend to get an Elisa with 12 weeks and that's it.
I'll tell you the results, but I feel I am not ok.
Pray for me.

Offline Ann

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  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: PCR, ELisa or symptoms - what to trust??
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2007, 04:43:39 AM »
andrew,

Pray for YOU when there's so many others who have actually had a risk?

Symptoms are meaningless when it comes to hiv. Instead of chasing something you could not possibly have - as you didn't have a risk for hiv - you and your doctor should be looking for the real cause of your problems. Whatever it is, it is NOT hiv.

Your lymphocyte and leukocyte tests are also meaningless when it comes to hiv. Hiv positive people follow a specific subset of white blood cells, not those two. MY lymphocytes and leukocytes ALWAYS come back in normal ranges and I've been poz for ten years, not on meds.

You're worrying needlessly. Your test results have already proven you are conclusively hiv negative. Throw all the money away on testing you like, but your result will not change. The huge amount of money you've spent on testing could have better served your local AIDS organisation - please consider throwing your money their way instead of down the drain at your local lab.

You do NOT have hiv!

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline alberche

  • Member
  • Posts: 212
  • a distancia del mundo incierto, saludo mi suerte
Re: PCR, ELisa or symptoms - what to trust??
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2007, 11:28:25 AM »
Dear Andrew,

PCR viral load should detect high viral replication after infection settlement, so by the 2nd or 3rd week you should have had at least any detectable viral load, even very high values.

Antibody production (seroconversion) maybe could last more than 2 months, in some cases more than 3 months.

Maybe your sympthoms could be due to any other disease, such as mononucleosis or any other viral or bacterial infection. HIV primary infection sympthoms are not too specific, so it is very difficult to make a diagnosis only based on the mere sympthoms. Hence, most of people does not realize the moment in which they got infected.

After so many tests, if you were HIV +, your doctor already would have some solid clues and he/she would tell you.

Nevertheless, doctors always tend to be sure before telling anything for sure, so he/she is letting some time to pass in order to repeat all tests to be completely sure of the negative results.

As Ann says, the most, most, most probable thing is that you are still HIV neg.

Take profit of this experience, learn how to take care of yourself enjoying good sex at the same time. Yes, it is possible!!!!

:-)

Hugs!
love is blindness...  a wonderful song!

Offline Ann

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  • Posts: 28,140
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: PCR, ELisa or symptoms - what to trust??
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2007, 01:57:37 PM »


As Ann says, the most, most, most probable thing is that you are still HIV neg.


Of course it's the most probable thing - he didn't have a risk in the first place!

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline andrews229

  • Member
  • Posts: 8
Re: PCR, ELisa or symptoms - what to trust??
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2007, 05:26:06 PM »
Thanks Ann and Alberche,
:)
I'll tell you my final results.
Andrews

Offline Matty the Damned

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  • Ninja Please
Re: PCR, ELisa or symptoms - what to trust??
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2007, 05:31:50 PM »
Andrews,

I can tell you your final result right now. You'll test negative.

MtD

Offline andrews229

  • Member
  • Posts: 8
Re: PCR, ELisa or symptoms - what to trust??
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2007, 05:14:01 PM »
Again, this is a real scary story.

I'm on day 50 since my exposure and these are my SYMPTOMS:

Day 15 rash  (still there)

Day 22 - bad fatigue  (during that night)

Day 24 - bad fatigue and bodyache (still there)

Day 29-33 headache

Day 47 - real severe fatigue - no energy to work and some body ache (still there)

And these are my tests so far:

Day 8 - negative elisaElisa
Hiv elisa and undetected RNA PCR (under 400)

Day 15 - negative elisaElisa
Hiv elisa  and undetected RNA PCR (under 400)

Day 27 - negative elisaElisa
Hiv elisa and antibody and undetected RNA PCR (under 400)

Day 37 - negative elisaElisa
Hiv elisa

Day 43 (six weeks) - negative elisaElisa

Day 49 - ultra sensive RNA PCR without result (under 50)

I'm waiting the result of the last PCR to get one last elisa

But I'm sure they are both positive.
And guess what: all of this after a hard core blow job from two sex
workers.
I'm feeling the poorest person on earth.

Somebody, please say something.
I want to believe the six week test and I want to believe the oral lack of risk.
But I'm very sacred and I'm not very confident.
Pray for me, please.

Offline Matty the Damned

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,239
  • Ninja Please
Re: PCR, ELisa or symptoms - what to trust??
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2007, 05:16:05 PM »
There are no specific symptoms of acute HIV infection. Whatever is making you ill, it's not HIV. I'm surprised that the medical people who are ordering all these unnecessary and expensive tests are putting up with your carry on. Shame on them for enabling your hysterical behaviour.

You do not have HIV.

MtD

Offline andrews229

  • Member
  • Posts: 8
Re: PCR, ELisa or symptoms - what to trust??
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2007, 06:42:31 PM »
Matty,
I strong believe in the 8 weeks window.
Thats my country's oficial guideline and I think it's is correct (even conservative).
Do you think I can do it next week??
The problem is that if I get a bad result, my name is going to be in the oficial list, and I don't want that. I don't want anyone to kanow it.
What do you think?? (there is no anonimous testing here).

Offline Matty the Damned

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,239
  • Ninja Please
Re: PCR, ELisa or symptoms - what to trust??
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2007, 06:52:24 PM »
Andrew,

You're not listening.

YOU DO NOT NEED TO TEST AT ALL. YOU WERE NEVER AT RISK OF INFECTION. YOU DO NOT HAVE HIV.

MtD

Offline RapidRod

  • Member
  • Posts: 15,288
Re: PCR, ELisa or symptoms - what to trust??
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2007, 06:55:33 PM »
Look how many times you have tested and you want us to believe you are worried about getting your name on an official list? You need to face the fact that you didn't have a risk and I know you've been told the same things in other forums you have posted in. YOU DID NOT HAVE A RISK. Test all you like your result is not going to change.

Offline andrews229

  • Member
  • Posts: 8
Re: PCR, ELisa or symptoms - what to trust??
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2007, 07:05:23 PM »
Thanks guys,
But even if she had her tonsil inflamed??
The girl wold almost swallow my penis for a long tiome (over one hour), since I would'n cum because I was drunk.
Remeber I got NGU forma the episode.
Still ZERO???

Offline Matty the Damned

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,239
  • Ninja Please
Re: PCR, ELisa or symptoms - what to trust??
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2007, 07:13:58 PM »
Andrew,

Inflamed tonsils make no difference you were not at risk. You should re-read our Welcome Thread and review our posting guidelines, especially the section which says:

Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.

MtD

Offline Andy Velez

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 24,955
Re: PCR, ELisa or symptoms - what to trust??
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2007, 09:17:16 PM »
If you come back with more of this same stuff you're getting a time out. You may have time to waste and indulge yourself with in this manner. We don't.

This is not your emotional sandpile for every little thought you have about HIV.
Andy Velez

Offline andrews229

  • Member
  • Posts: 8
Re: PCR, ELisa or symptoms - what to trust??
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2007, 01:12:29 PM »
Guys,
I just got the results of my seventh week ultra sensive RNA PCR.
The lower limit detection is 50 copies per ml.
And the result was NOT DETECTED.
I am so happy and relieved.
I'm still taking an elisa today (8 weeks) and another in 12 weeks.
But I think I am OK, and I'll try to get my life back. DO you agree??
Last but not least I'd like to apologize for being so boring and for not believing you guys. Thank you for the support and for the pacience.
You were my best friends for the past weeks.
And let's hope the final results keep like this!!!
Thank you all!!!

Offline Ann

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  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: PCR, ELisa or symptoms - what to trust??
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2007, 01:16:31 PM »
Andrew,

You don't need further testing. You ARE hiv negative. You didn't have a risk, so how on earth could your result be anything other than hiv negative?

You're still under a time out warning. We don't need you to come back and report on any further unnecessary testing - we already know you're hiv negative.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse and you'll stay that way. It really is that simple!

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

 


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