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Author Topic: To take or not to take...  (Read 5592 times)

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Offline 404error

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  • Posts: 431
To take or not to take...
« on: November 20, 2007, 05:42:41 PM »
I've been struggling with the idea of taking meds lately.  My latest numbers are what some might consider a warning sign.  VL of about 40,000 and cd4 of 260.  Most of what I've read lately suggests that one should start meds as soon as they drop below 350.  I'm just not sure if I want to take meds as I don't agree with it from a philosophical point of view.  I believe that disease(s) exist for a reason and that reason is to weed out the numbers of our over populated planet.  Survival of the fittest if you will.  Cancers, diabetes (especially type two), HIV are (generally speaking) end results of risky living.  Lung cancer from smoking, cirhossis from a lifetime of drinking, type two diabetes from years of poor dietary choices/physical neglect, HIV from the sharing needles or having unprotected sex with strangers, et cetera.  I obviously realize that not everyone who contracted HIV was engaging in what they felt to be "risky behaviour" i.e. half of a married couple whose spouse cheated and brought something extra home from that last business trip or a blood transfuion or even an organ transplant.   I just don't know if I can commit to a lifetime of taking medicaiton.  I would feel like a hypocrite.  This is something I've believed in for years, long before contracting the disease myself.  If I were to suddenly change my opinion for my own benefit, what sort of principles would I have?  How can I wholeheartedly believe in something if I'm not willing to cast myself in the negative light when the situation calls for it?  I've always believed that the needs of the greater good outweigh the needs of an individual.  How is society benefitting from keeping me alive?  Subsidized medicine, tax dollars that could have been better spent...  I have no idea.  I feel as though it would be extremely selfish of me to prolong my life when there is no natural way that this should occur.  What would I be holding on for?  To live in a world where not only the public at large stigmatizes PWA's but we also do it to ourselves? (and I am not suggesting I am an exception to this by any means.)  To work a meaningless job that at the end of the day provides me and my employer with money but really doesn't accomplish anything worth mentioning?  A few birthdays, a couple of Christmas', maybe a Valentine or two (although it really is more of a "give us your money" scam holiday than anything else.) 

I wish I was just depressed, it would be a much easier fix.  Go to doctor, get pills, be happy.  I honestly don't know if I'm ready to sell my beliefs down the river because they aren't convenient for me at the present time. 
A social critic who promotes equality...

Offline newt

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Re: To take or not to take...
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2007, 06:50:31 PM »
So then, are you ready to die?

Not maybe today...tomorrow, next year. but ready whenever it happens? Will you refuse all meds for opportunistic infections and pain control etc? Will you? Cos they's no different to combo.

The question for me would be what do you want to do on this planet? Have you done it yet? And what tools do you need to do what you want to do? Are called even? Maybe meds are one of them tools...how are they different to glasses? Or piped water? or cars? Or farmed food? Or books?

I had unprotected sex with my boyfriend, not a stranger, and I absolutely refuse to punish myself for it.  Or even f it was a stranger, I refuse.

- matt
« Last Edit: November 20, 2007, 06:54:48 PM by newt »
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline Queen Tokelove

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Re: To take or not to take...
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2007, 06:52:25 PM »
Well, it kinda sounds like to me that you have made up your mind. I do believe it is a personal choice. I didn't start meds til recently and my cd was at 215. If you don't want to take the meds then don't take them, you gotta do what is best for you.
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
2/6/08 CD4- 401 VL- undetectable
5/7/08 CD4- 705 VL- undetectable
6/4/08 CD4- 775 VL- undetectable
8/6/08 CD4- 805 VL- undetectable
11/13/08 CD4- 774 VL--undetectable
2/4/09  CD4- 484  VL- 18,000 (2 months off meds)
3/3/09---Starting Back on Meds---
4/27/09 CD4- 664 VL-- undetectable
6/17/09 CD4- 438 VL- 439
8/09 CD4- 404 VL- 1,600
01-22-10-- CD4- 525 VL- 59,000
Cherish the simple things life has to offer

The Royal Blog

Offline DCGUY2007

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Re: To take or not to take...
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2007, 01:43:20 AM »
I know it can be a difficult decision. I for one don't believe in jumping on meds as soon as someone is poz unless their tcells are low. I think you are at the point where you should start meds. When tcells start getting around 200 people are more susceptible to infections. Not everyone but usually.

I have also seen meds almost literally bring people back from the dead. So they defiinitely help.

I was fortunate and waited a long time to start meds. I haven't had any major problems from them. But everyone doesn't have the same experience.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2007, 01:51:33 AM by DCGUY2007 »

Offline justice3175

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Re: To take or not to take...
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2007, 02:58:35 AM »
i know it's your opinion and what you believe...but I have one of my own...are you saying that we deserve to die of terminal illnesses because of our lifestyle choices?

I happen to know a lot of guys who were involved with very risky behavior and walked away healthy.
Some of us were just unlucky.


Here's the thing. Why be a hypocrite? If taking meds goes against your beliefs then don't take them. never compromise what you stand truly strong in...God, knows I don't. (Then again, i don't believe in God, or that my death is brought on by overpopulation.)

and to be honest, from the sound of your post - you don't think much of yourself...or life for that matter. Sounds like you are depressed.


Offline Dragonette

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Re: To take or not to take...
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2007, 04:51:32 AM »
wow so many overwhelming ideas there...

look Up when I was diagnosed seriously the only thing that prevented me from throwing myself off the hospital roof there and then was what that would do to my parents. Just waking up every morning (if I sleep) was excruciatingly painful. it was torture. I was just ruined. my then-BF with whom I was supposed to move in with in 3 days dumped me. I felt like an alien or a zombie walking among the normal people.
I had low Cd4s so actually got put on meds even before the WB came in. I was not concerned about my health and had no idea what my #s meant. I learned all that later and in a way that was a blessing, b/c probabaly if I had to wait and make my own descision I would be in the same place you are now.

You went thru the hell of the first months and I am sure that, as depressed as you sound, things are actually somewhat better now.

It's OK to have ideas and thoughts, about the cost of keeping you alive for instance - although it is ridiculous to be honest, I am not even going to talk about the real priorities of the countries we live in (doesn't matter which) but even from the health aspect, so much money is being spent on BS, not just you but all the other patients on meds are but a drop in the bucket. If you want to sacrifice yourself so that Canda will save 25,000$ a year, i'm sure it will be put to good use fixing up a buffet in some function or another. Seriously, be as philisophical as you like, meanwhile just get on with the business of living. We have one life, one body, one soul, that's all we need. I know, I can freak out about lipo as much or mor as anybody and ruin my day everytime someone says I "look different", but it doesn't change that. Stop starving yourself emotionally, you are being cruel to yourself (you, not society, not the stigma) by telling yourself you don't deserve a chance to live, it's not the stigma (which is out there for sure). It's you taking it on and magnifying it. You don't have to walk around shouting that you are poz, if you don't want to. You don't have to lock yourself in the basement either. You just have to live your life, which the meds will enable you to continue.

I know recently in the forums you have turned into a version of Suntropic, but really I remember you from before. If this isn't depression what is? It colors everything, and you are having irrational thoughts. It's OK to give them room, discuss them, write them, but don't let it take over. Maybe you should slow down on the weed too. It's not always the best thing for everybody all the time. I used to smoke a lot and it turned on me eventually, I can't smoke anymore.

I am sure there is someone in your hospital (social worker, psychologist) you can discuss these things with.

PS Matt's post has some excellent arguments, but I am sure you will find counterarguments. I hope your survivial instinct kicks in. Just living, breathing, doing everyday things feels good sometimes. You can't deny that.... 
« Last Edit: November 21, 2007, 04:58:06 AM by Dragonette »
"If you keep one foot in yesterday, and one in tomorrow, you piss all over today". Betty Tacy

Offline Dachshund

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Re: To take or not to take...
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2007, 06:27:12 AM »
Your first serious opportunistic infection will make you wish you were dead and if you don't take your own life the unnecessary cost associated to keep you alive will be astronomical. If you let nature take it's course you might be looking at years spent in and out of the hospital burdening society with the cost. I actually had a friend who refused meds because his lover had passed before they were available. He languished for almost two years in a nursing home. He was thirty seven.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: To take or not to take...
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2007, 07:02:16 AM »
Up,

I had an enormously witty and devastating response prepared for this thread. It primarily revolved around this comment of yours:

I believe that disease(s) exist for a reason and that reason is to weed out the numbers of our over populated planet.  Survival of the fittest if you will.  Cancers, diabetes (especially type two), HIV are (generally speaking) end results of risky living.  Lung cancer from smoking, cirhossis from a lifetime of drinking, type two diabetes from years of poor dietary choices/physical neglect, HIV from the sharing needles or having unprotected sex with strangers, et cetera.


You really are a dreadful human being.

But then I re-read it and realised just how excruciatingly sad you are and just how ghastly your predicament is.

I encourage you to seek psychiatric help. Really. There is something terribly wrong with you but, ever hopeful, I think you can be helped.

MtD

Offline anniebc

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Re: To take or not to take...
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2007, 04:48:02 PM »
Quote
believe that disease(s) exist for a reason and that reason is to weed out the numbers of our over populated planet.  Survival of the fittest if you will.  Cancers, diabetes (especially type two), HIV are (generally speaking) end results of risky living.  Lung cancer from smoking, cirhossis from a lifetime of drinking, type two diabetes from years of poor dietary choices/physical neglect, HIV from the sharing needles or having unprotected sex with strangers, et cetera

What you do and decide to do with your life is up to you...but to tell people that their friends and loved ones was have taken from them because they were somehow a part of a culling programme is sick.

Definiton of Culling...To select and kill in order to keep the population under control.

We do that to keep destructive wild animals under control ..we do not include humans in our culling program.

Jan
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never knock on deaths door..ring the bell and run..he really hates that.

Offline AlanBama

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  • Alabama: the 'other' 3rd World Country!
Re: To take or not to take...
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2007, 10:40:31 PM »
I agree with Matty, please try to get some psychiatric help.

What has happened in your life to make you think so little of yourself? You are worth more than you know.

Alan
"Remember my sentimental friend that a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others." - The Wizard of Oz

Offline BT65

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Re: To take or not to take...
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2007, 06:15:37 AM »
Up, I echo Matty and Alan.  You really do need help.  I don't believe people get diseases as a way of weeding out "the bad ones."  I also have type 2 diabetes, through no fault of my own.  I was in a coma and the feeding I was getting through a tube had an extremely high sugar content in it and caused my pancreas to fail. 

It sounds like you are very depressed and have not much value on life.  Please get some professional help. 
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline otherplaces

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  • Mutant Super Hero
Re: To take or not to take...
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2007, 01:54:45 PM »

Wow, so much self-loathing as of late.  There's so much wrong about your reasons for abstaining from meds.  Social Darwinism? Fascism? Euthanasia?  I don't know where to start.  You're obviously depressed, maybe something else mixed in.  I'll echo that you should see a professional therapist or psychiatrist...which, by the way, is also nothing to be ashamed of. 








Offline MitchMiller

  • Member
  • Posts: 479
Re: To take or not to take...
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2007, 04:41:45 PM »
If you feel so guilty about being a burden then just pay for the meds yourself.  Maybe down the line, you'll change the way you feel about the disease or perhaps new treatments will emerge that are cheaper overall (like a therapeutic vaccine).  You'll always have the option of changing your mind. 

If you allow yourself to become ill, it might not be so easy to change course.  OI's can have permanent effects.  Why not give yourself a few years to evaluate your situation?  What if the Koronis drug trials, scheduled for 2008, actually yield a huge advance in treatment options?  What if it is determined that integrase inhibitors combined with a therapeutic vaccine can actually eradicate the virus after an extended period of treatment?  Wouldn't you be sorry if you ended up with a horrible OI in the meantime that left you permanently scarred?

I see you live in Canada so I'm wondering how you feel about your national health care system.  You sound like a member of the Libertarian party here in the US.... every man for himself.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2007, 04:44:19 PM by MitchMiller »

Offline cayucosguy

  • Member
  • Posts: 133
Re: To take or not to take...
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2007, 04:42:51 PM »
Can you honestly say you wouldn't miss:

      the feel of the wind on your face?
     the song of the birds?
     the warmth of the sun?
     the honest laughter of children?
     every new sunrise... every full moon?


I belive you cannot.  Please seek the answers to what is going on. 

IM me if you would like to talk.

You deserve to be here.

Vince

Offline northernguy

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,347
Re: To take or not to take...
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2007, 09:48:39 PM »
Up, we really don't know enough about you to comment, but I'll try.  Is your family situation colouring this attitude, drug use, history of depression...?

I don't really understand your attitude towards sickness.  Does that mean a mother should not give a 3 year old who gets an infected cut antibiotics and just let the kid die?  .  As to a "natural order", its natural that mankind has invented these meds to help those with HIV, as natural as it was to discover how to use fire for cooking!  As to stigma, yes its there, but there are a lot of people here whose co-workers etc probably have no idea they have HIV.  "Making a difference" is up you, at age 28 you have plenty of time to do it.  Finally, if you've paid taxes why do you feel you are not entitled to medical care?

Hopefully some of the LTS here will speak up to let you know the value of continuing to live out your life.

Apr 28/06 cd4 600 vl 10,600 cd% 25
Nov 8/09 cd4 510 vl 49,5000 cd% 16
Jan 16/10 cd4 660 vl 54,309 cd% 16
Feb 17/10 Started Atripla
Mar 7/10 cd4 710 vl 1,076 cd% 21
Apr 18/10 cd4 920 vl 268 cd% 28
Jun 19/10 cd4 450 vl 60 cd% 25
Aug 15/10 cd4 680 vl 205 cd% 27
Apr 3/11 cd4 780 vl <40 cd% 30
Jul 17/11 cd4 960 vl <40 cd%33
April 15/12 cd4 1,010 vl <40 cd% 39
April 20/12 Switched to Viramune + Truvada
Aug 2/12 cd4 1040, vl <40, cd% 38
Oct 19 cd4 1,110 vl <40 cd% 41

Offline komnaes

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Re: To take or not to take...
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2007, 04:24:52 AM »
Hey bud,

It sounds like you have hit a wall. Really, you need to be a seriously twisted person to actually believe in what you've described as your philosophy, and since I think you're not so twisted, I want to think that it's just your depression acting up.

You can only take social Darwinism so far before you take it to such an extreme that even Hitler would've found hard to endorse, and to mix it with a new age rubbish that mother nature is using a virus to keep humanity under control is even more dangerous.

So I think what you have is not a "philosophical" question - the real questions are how did you reach so deep into a dark corner of your mind to allow such thoughts to surface and why would you even consider for one second that it could actually be your "philosophy" that you're prepared to, er, fuck yourself up in order to live up to it.

Is it just your fear of taking meds taking over?

Please take care of yourself,

Shaun
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline mjmel

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Re: To take or not to take...
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2007, 06:17:59 AM »

UpAllNight, there's a lot wrong in this world and there's a lot right that's going on as well.
I recommend, go to doctor, get pills, be happy.
xxx,
Mike


Offline racingmind

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Re: To take or not to take...
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2007, 08:12:02 AM »
Up,

I spent the better part of a year being sad and depressed. I was unemployed and felt really worthless most of the time. I had spent the year prior to being infected back in school to train for a new, more satisfying career.  After I became infected, I began to think it was all for nothing. I thought maybe I wouldn't be healthy enough to accomplish what I set out to do.  I watched my numbers jump around and thought about all aspects of what life would be like while taking HIV meds. I grew tired of playing the "wait and see" game with regard to my numbers. My life pretty much came to a halt because I was afraid to start anything new because taking meds, to me, was just a matter time.  How would I react to them? Would I be able to work a full day?  Would the side effects be so bad that I couldn't work again? What about the long term side effects of taking meds?  I was terrified.

I had a couple of friends who started meds and were tolerating them very well.  Both of them had no real side effects.  Then my numbers took a turn for the worse and I decided that becoming sick was scarier than starting meds.  I decided it was time to end the waiting game. My doctor agreed it was also time. My numbers had always been borderline at best anyway.  I finally came to the realization that I was not going to be able to be one of those fortunate people that can go ten years or more without taking HIV meds.  It was the first step in getting on with my life.

So, I started taking meds, started to feel better, and finally landed the job I spent a year training for.  Now I come home at night feeling a sense of accomplishment, feeling better about my health because I am being proactive in maintaining it, and I don't think about being infected with HIV every waking moment (well maybe when I pop my meds, but that's it).  To date, I have had no significant side effects.  Long term?  Who knows, but it sure beats letting my health deteriorate here in the present. 

I heard a statistic recently from my case manager stating that perhaps 20% of the adult population of the United States is walking around infected and not aware of it.  If that statistic is true, then we are all in a VERY big boat together and owe it to ourselves to take whatever medications are out there and live our lives to the fullest.  Everybody dies. That's a fact. But it's important to have a life before you die. I'm not ready to give up yet, I still have too much left to do. I intent to leave a mark behind so that someone will know that I was here. 

My suggestion is to seek counselling, take a step back, and find your purpose in life. I think you will find it, but right now you are perhaps clouded by despair.  Yes, disease does exist on our planet, but we certainly don't have to just sit there and wait for it to tear us apart.

I hope you seek out the help you need and see things from a different perspective. You are valuable. It's never too late to find a new "philosophy."
« Last Edit: November 23, 2007, 12:16:27 PM by racingmind »
Tested Negative: 5/06
Tested Positive: 9/06 
9/06: CD4: 442 (28%) VL: +100,000
10/06: CD4: 323 (25%) VL: 243,440
11/06: CD4: 405 (28%) VL: 124,324
12/06: CD4: 450 (29%) VL: 114,600
1/07: CD4: 440 (27%) VL: 75,286
3/07: CD4: 459 (30%) VL: 44,860
5/07: CD4: 353 (24%) VL: 50,852
7/07: CD4: 437 (29%) VL: 39,475
9/07: CD4: 237 (32%) VL: 372,774
10/07: CD4: 324 (27%) VL: 115,454 
Started Atripla: 10/07
11/07: CD4: 524 (?%) VL: Undetectable!
2/08: CD4: 653 (35%) VL: undetectable
5/08: CD4: 822 (40%) VL: undetectable
8/08: CD4: 626 (35%) VL: undetectable
12/08: CD4: 619 (36%) VL: undetectable
3/09: CD4: 802 (38%) VL: undetectable
7/09: CD4: 1027 (43%) VL: not tested
10/09: CD4: 1045 (43%) VL: undetectable

Offline 404error

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Re: To take or not to take...
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2007, 10:29:03 PM »
Well I told my parents how I feel and needless to say that didn't go over well.  Not so much because of my view on the purpose of disease but more to do with my lack of interest in living a second best life.  I am extremely, extremely competitive.  I've never gone for second best anything.  Never the second best girl, the second best house, the second best job, the second best vacation, nothing.  (Obviously this is subjective)  My parents said it was selfish of me to think that I would like to die sooner rather than later.  Selfish because I'd be leaving behind a whole bunch of family and friends who really care.  I think that to expect someone to stay around because if they died it would make their family/friends sad is even more selfish.  To expect someone to hang on because you'll miss them?  Please.  Anyways, I talked it out with my parents and decided to give myself until February 10th of 2016.  At that point it will have been 10 years and if after 10 years I'm still living a second best life, I'm going to the Dignitas Clinic in Zurich.  It was a tough compromise.

A social critic who promotes equality...

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: To take or not to take...
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2007, 10:33:08 PM »
Well given your views on the purpose of disease, aren't you honour bound to not take medications and Darwin yourself out of the gene pool?

For the good of the race and all that.

MtD

Offline 404error

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Re: To take or not to take...
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2007, 10:36:54 PM »
Oh, I'm a hypocrite but my Mom made me feel really guilty so I told her I'd give her 8 and change more years and that was it.  It was an ugly, ugly conversation.

 
A social critic who promotes equality...

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: To take or not to take...
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2007, 10:38:28 PM »
Oh, I'm a hypocrite but my Mom made me feel really guilty so I told her I'd give her 8 and change more years and that was it.  It was an ugly, ugly conversation.


Ugly? Given the participants I've no doubt.

Why on earth would she want 8 more years of you? It's not like you're going to give her grandchildren or anything.

MtD

Offline 404error

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Re: To take or not to take...
« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2007, 10:43:35 PM »
Quote
Why on earth would she want 8 more years of you? It's not like you're going to give her grandchildren or anything.

I have no idea, I mean at least I have siblings to carry on the bloodline. 
A social critic who promotes equality...

Offline allanq

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Re: To take or not to take...
« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2007, 10:51:20 PM »
What is the "best" house or the "best" job or the "best" vacation? To me, it's the house or job or vacation that you're happy with. Your worth is not measured by the material things in your life, and always comparing yourself to others is a recipe for misery.

Allan
Top (Breakfast): Prezista, Norvir, Isentress, Zoloft (2), Glyburide (2), Aspirin
Bottom right (Dinner): Prezista, Norvir, Isentress
Bottom left (Bedtime): Sustiva, Trazodone (2), Lipitor, Septra (no longer taking this)
Center: Alprazolam (Xanax)
Not shown: various vitamins & supplements

Offline 404error

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Re: To take or not to take...
« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2007, 11:01:51 PM »
Quote
What is the "best" house or the "best" job or the "best" vacation?

The "best" is the best I could afford in terms of clothes, housing, and holidays.  The best woman was always a really goodlooking, really funny, physically fit, intelligent girl. 

A social critic who promotes equality...

Offline anniebc

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Re: To take or not to take...
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2007, 05:07:51 AM »
OK UP..I need you to explain something to me...you claim to want the best of everything and refuse to settle for second best...yet you have you chosen to live a "second best life".(your words)...this doesn't make sense to me.

A VL of 40,000 and a CD4 of 260 are hardly the *best* numbers...so why not take the meds and get your numbers to a point that will allow you to live long enough to enjoy the *best* of everything?.

If you don't want to settle for second best then you need to stand up and fight to achieve the best, I would have thought that someone who is extremely competitive would do just that..fight to get what they want...am I missing something here?.

Jan
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never knock on deaths door..ring the bell and run..he really hates that.

Offline aztecan

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  • 29 years positive, 57 years a pain in the butt
Re: To take or not to take...
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2007, 10:04:33 AM »
I was going to let this pass without comment, but I just can't.

Your idea of social Darwinism is, to say the least, far fetched. I hate to be the one to break this to you, but life isn't neat, clean or fair.

Natural selection isn't survival of the fittest, but rather survival of those who are most adaptable and able to change to meet new conditions. That, my dear, is Darwinism, social and otherwise.

Those who are unable to change, like their animal counterparts, are at greatest risk of extinction.

That is the position in which you have placed yourself.

HUGS,

Mark

"May your life preach more loudly than your lips."
~ William Ellery Channing (Unitarian Minister)

Offline AlanBama

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Re: To take or not to take...
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2007, 10:38:49 AM »
Most people I've ever known who try to impose some kind of a "time line" on their life with HIV/AIDS will tell you that it is very unpredictable.   Try it, and you'll most likely be in for a surprise.   I was "supposed to be" dead in 1992.   Go figure....

Take the meds, get on with your life.   

Alan (celebrating 51 years, 21 of them with HIV/AIDS, that's over 40%)
"Remember my sentimental friend that a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others." - The Wizard of Oz

Offline Queen Tokelove

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  • Smokey the Smurf
Re: To take or not to take...
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2007, 11:35:13 AM »
Sweetie, I know folks have given you a hard way to go considering what you have said but you gotta live for you. While it is great to want the best of everything sometimes you just got to deal with the hand you are dealt. While your health may not be considered the best due to what we have, the meds that are out now make it so we can live to the best of our ability. So you can still strive for the best of things in life. I think you should reconsider your decision but as I like to say, you gotta do what is best for you. Waiting 8 years may not be what is best for you. What is your doctor saying?
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
2/6/08 CD4- 401 VL- undetectable
5/7/08 CD4- 705 VL- undetectable
6/4/08 CD4- 775 VL- undetectable
8/6/08 CD4- 805 VL- undetectable
11/13/08 CD4- 774 VL--undetectable
2/4/09  CD4- 484  VL- 18,000 (2 months off meds)
3/3/09---Starting Back on Meds---
4/27/09 CD4- 664 VL-- undetectable
6/17/09 CD4- 438 VL- 439
8/09 CD4- 404 VL- 1,600
01-22-10-- CD4- 525 VL- 59,000
Cherish the simple things life has to offer

The Royal Blog

Offline David_CA

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Re: To take or not to take...
« Reply #29 on: November 27, 2007, 11:49:49 AM »
The notion of a 'second best life' sounds of self pity or of somebody who doesn't care for themself.  I've heard people say their life is great.  I've heard people say their life sucks.  This is the first I've heard of somebody saying they're living a 'second best' life.  I have AIDS.  I take meds to stay alive.  Period.  Other than that, I do all the things required of life, and do many of them quite well.  The ones that I don't do well (second best, perhaps) are the ones I don't care much about (priorities).  I do care about me (and my husband, family, and friends) and want to enjoy my life with them.  I plan on being around in 2016 and (hopefully) still doing well.  I certainly won't go without a fight... but that's just me.

David

Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: To take or not to take...
« Reply #30 on: November 27, 2007, 11:57:13 AM »

If you don't want to settle for second best then you need to stand up and fight to achieve the best, I would have thought that someone who is extremely competitive would do just that..fight to get what they want...am I missing something here?.

Jan

I thought the same thing Jan.  A competitive person like UP says he is would look at his HIV like the ultimate challenge, and grab the steer by the horns.  There's a lot to be said at making HIV like a game, one that you intend to win.

This AIDS Darwinism theory is crap, plain and simple.  As someone who lived through the darker days of HIV treatment in the early 90's all I can say is that those of you who are going on meds right now have it so much better that it really, REALLY saddens me to see someone not recognize this superior position and deny themselves the opportunity to take advantage of it.  It's a cop out and not indicative of the Type A personage he is claiming.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

 


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