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Author Topic: Organic/"Natural Foods and CD4's?  (Read 5698 times)

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Offline clarke

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Organic/"Natural Foods and CD4's?
« on: July 10, 2006, 12:41:49 PM »
We moved up here from West TN. (what I consider to be God's armpit (hot, dirty,muggy all kinds of critters in the air).  Her CD4's were always under 300 and mine were mainly around 400.

We moved up here by Washinton, D.C. and started shopping at Whole Foods (our MD's recommendation), and now I work there part-time. 

Now, her CD4's are over 600 and mine are close to 800.  Both our VL's are steadily undetectable (in the past, the VL's have moved up and down by several thousand and undetectable).

Is this a viable connection or coincidence?  Oh, and I also lost about 30 pounds of "visceral fat" in about 3-4 months by eating Kashi Go-Lean cereal and yogurt (organic).

Offline allopathicholistic

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Re: Organic/"Natural Foods and CD4's?
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2006, 01:04:32 PM »
Hi. Question. Between the low and high counts, what was the time span? 2 years? 3? Less than 1 year? That info would be helpful.

I myself am a pretty big fan of unprocessed food and the holistic cosmos in general. I had 42 CD4 and 100,000 VL back in September 2005 and, as of June 2006, I'm at 419 CD4 (18%) and VL is <70. But whole foods are not the only holistics I do. That's just me.

Ciao Alex

Offline clarke

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Re: Organic/"Natural Foods and CD4's?
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2006, 01:12:48 PM »
We moved up here 10/2003, and started getting most of our foods (meats, fish, veggies, bakery goods etc) at WFM within 6 months of our move (I think it was after our 2nd MD check-up).

And our CD4 counts have risen steadily since then.

Offline allopathicholistic

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Re: Organic/"Natural Foods and CD4's?
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2006, 02:13:38 PM »
ok- so 2 years more orless.....I'll give my opinion but understand I'm clearly biased. I think the whole food thing and rising CD4 - I think they're linked somehow therefore I don't think it's coincidence. But again, that's just me. Congrats and keep on trucking!!  :D

Note for any newly poz or denialists whom might be reading: Foods can NOT suppress HIV progression. HIV medications suppress HIV progression. If you're HIV + and not on meds, you must must must talk with your doctor about the right time to start meds

To wellness and happiness,
Alex
(a former denialist)
« Last Edit: July 10, 2006, 02:25:45 PM by allopathicholistic »

Offline penguin

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Re: Organic/"Natural Foods and CD4's?
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2006, 06:11:50 AM »
think it makes sense that if you eat better quality food, you will have better quality health...food is one of the most powerful medicines we have available to us (in my humble, green-lentil eating opinion anyway) I do the whole organic/whole food thing, just because a) my body seems to have a hard time with processed food and b) i prefer to be in control of which substances/chemicals i am exposed to  :P
think it's about getting a balance, knowing and providing what your body needs to stay well + feel good... 'n then perhaps, maybe, the odd bit of cake or ice cream just to feed the soul...

kate

Offline allopathicholistic

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Re: Organic/"Natural Foods and CD4's?
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2006, 09:36:33 AM »
Both our VL's are steadily undetectable (in the past, the VL's have moved up and down by several thousand and undetectable).

Clarke: Congrats. What meds if you don't mind me asking? Yogurt (sugarless of course) and lacto-fermented vegetables are two of the best foods available because of their relation to gut flora within our gastrointestinal tracts

Kate: We adore your "green lentil" opinions!!!!! LOL!!  :D :D :D :D :D LOL!

Offline clarke

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Re: Organic/"Natural Foods and CD4's?
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2006, 11:01:09 AM »
Truvada, AZT, Viramune, Neurontin (neuropathy in lower legs and feet), Elavil (25mg.), Lorazepam (2mg.) (the last 2 at night to help me sleep).

We mainly thought it was "coincidental".  Understanding though, that the animals of the meats have no growth hormones, antibiotics or other "fun" type things fed to them.  We have seen that these meats cook differently, and most of all, our digestive system "acts" differently (in a more positive fashion).  Oh, have any of you tried Water Buffalo Yogurt?

My wife is on: Kaletra, Invarase, Elavil, Neurontin, Acyclovir and Yasmin to regulate her periods.  She bled for 2 months straight, dad after day before she got a Family Practitioner to check her out (btw, and this was an MD she saw after we moved up here.  The ob-gyn's down in West TN. would NOT check her out while she was bleeding).

It's really very interesting the contrast of how the medical profession treat PWA's up here as opposed to their Southern counterparts.

Offline frenchpat

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Re: Organic/"Natural Foods and CD4's?
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2006, 09:07:21 AM »
Hi,

I think your change in diet (and lifestyle?) might very well have helped in the boosting of your immune system. I wish it did the same for me :-\:

As a longtime vegetarian (eating eggs and cheese though, but no fish or meat), I've been interested in the overall quality of the food I ate and have bought mostly organic food for many years. This definitely was good for me but it hasn't made me stronger when hiv hit me.

So I guess your choice of food combines with other elements, some of which, like stress, workload and psychological wellbeing must have an effect. I know in my case that the stress factor has not played in my favor and I therefore started to train for a different job.

Still waiting for my cd levels to climb further up I stick to my veggie diet and exercise regularly. Have even started to do weights to beef up a bit because of lypo attack.

Pat
People have the power - Patti Smith

Offline clarke

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Re: Organic/"Natural Foods and CD4's?
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2006, 02:51:09 PM »
That's funny what you mention about stress.  Even though I only work part-time at WFM, it is one of the most stressful jobs I've ever had.  There's a huge amount of pressure to please customers. and in this area where I work, these people have more money than God, and less sense than, well, not sure about the comparison.  And I have some customers who are extremely anal about the amount of product thery want.

As an example, if someone asks for 1 1/2 lbs. of a certain fish, they want 1.50, and not 1.55 or 1.53.  I've actually been told to shave it down until it's the amount that was asked for.

But, I need the job (first time since 1994 we've had Dental/Vision coverage) and the 20% off of the groceries we buy.

Offline JohnOso

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Re: Organic/"Natural Foods and CD4's?
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2006, 04:11:11 PM »
I shop at Whole Foods quite a bit (Walnut Creek, CA store) and eat lots of organic yogurt, high fiber cereal and especially the Hain brand of frozen veggie bowls (I take these to work).  IIRC, the water buffalo yogurt has a fair amount of fat in it, so that's why gave that a pass.

I'm also a sucker for the chicken chili verde and pesto rice that's right by the hot soups.

I've been avoiding the fresh fruits and vegetables, mainly because of low CD4 counts (with the exception of bananas).  Probably not the best idea, but i'm a bit leery of picking up anything until my counts are better.

Glad to hear about your success.

Take care,
John

Offline aztecan

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  • 29 years positive, 56 years a pain in the butt
Re: Organic/"Natural Foods and CD4's?
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2006, 12:14:11 AM »
I started eating more whole foods when I discovered I was gluten intolerant. Organic foods are easier because they usually list all of the ingredients and don't add all the crap.

One thing I have found is, although I am lactose intolant, I can eat organic yoghurt Sounds strange, but it works for me.

HUGS,

Mark
"May your life preach more loudly than your lips."
~ William Ellery Channing (Unitarian Minister)

Offline penguin

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Re: Organic/"Natural Foods and CD4's?
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2006, 06:37:31 AM »
One thing I have found is, although I am lactose intolant, I can eat organic yoghurt Sounds strange, but it works for me.

thought you might like an explanation, mark  :)

 Many people who can't tolerate milk, because of a protein allergy or lactose intolerance can eat yogurt. The culturing process makes yogurt more digestible than milk. The live active cultures create lactase, the enzyme lactose-intolerant people lack, and another enzyme (beta-galactosidase) also helps improve lactose absorption in lactase-deficient people.
Bacterial enzymes created by the culturing process start to  digest the milk protein casein,this makes it easier to absorb, less likely to trigger an allergic reaction.
While the amount varies according to the brand, generally yogurt has less lactose than milk. The culturing process breaks down the milk sugar lactose into glucose and galactose, two sugars which lactose intolerant people can absorb.

organic yogurt has higher levels of active cultures, hence, it is even more digestible than regular yogurt. Also...non organic yogurt usually has amounts of starch & other gluten containing thickeners added to it - these might, for someone with coeliacs, trigger an allergic response.

Kate
« Last Edit: July 29, 2006, 06:40:29 AM by penguin »

Offline aztecan

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  • 29 years positive, 56 years a pain in the butt
Re: Organic/"Natural Foods and CD4's?
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2006, 11:00:55 AM »
Thanks Kate,

I noticed, when I started reading labels, that commercial, non-organic yoghurts contain starch, often listed as "modified." I had lots of intestinal distress after eating it, and figured that was why.

The organic type doesn't contain the starch and, to date, hasn't caused problems. Good news, I think.

Overly processed foods aren't good for you anyway, so I find a whole foods diet, especially with organic ingredients, to work very well for me.

I just wish it weren't so expensive!  But, I guess you can't have everything.

HUGS,

Mark
"May your life preach more loudly than your lips."
~ William Ellery Channing (Unitarian Minister)

Offline allopathicholistic

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Re: Organic/"Natural Foods and CD4's?
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2006, 11:29:44 PM »
Overly processed foods aren't good for you anyway, so I find a whole foods diet, especially with organic ingredients, to work very well for me.

I just wish it weren't so expensive! 

how backwards. added crap costs less than crapless. "less is more" or "less costs more"  :-\  ::)

Offline Steven

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  • Joined: Dec 2002
    • A Place To Start
Re: Organic/"Natural Foods and CD4's?
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2006, 08:54:07 PM »
how backwards. added crap costs less than crapless. "less is more" or "less costs more"

It actually takes more to grow "organic".  Non organic they just spray chemicals around to get rid of the pesky bugs, Growing organic foods you need to take a different approach which takes more time and a different means then the other places. Plus the fact that organic is healthier it comes with an added price.
I really don't like the term "organic" , I tend to say I grow my food naturally.
no chemicals, sprays, or fertilizers. 

Offline aphaun

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Re: Organic/"Natural Foods and CD4's?
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2006, 01:29:40 AM »
You may be interested to know something I discovered recently.

Because I am living with PI-induced Type 2 Diabetes I figured that Fat-Free Plain yoghurt would be a best choice for my diet.

I use yoghurt to make breakfast smoothies with fruits, juices, water and 1% milk.

What I didnít realize was that Fat-Free Yoghurt contains cornstarch as a thickener, which is like adding sugar to it.
In addition, it contains concentrated whey.
That gives it double the cholesterol of 1% Plain yoghurt.
1% Plain yoghurt has no additives to the milk product and bacterial culture.

More is less.


Offline allopathicholistic

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on ABC World News with Charles Gibson: "ORGANIC" FOOD - WHAT DOES IT MEAN
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2006, 06:37:17 PM »
It actually takes more to grow "organic".  Non organic they just spray chemicals around to get rid of the pesky bugs, Growing organic foods you need to take a different approach which takes more time and a different means then the other places. Plus the fact that organic is healthier it comes with an added price.
I really don't like the term "organic" , I tend to say I grow my food naturally.
no chemicals, sprays, or fertilizers. 

Hey everyone. Right now (well, this half hour) on ABC World News with Charles Gibson: THE TRUTH ABOUT ORGANIC FOODS

Part 1 of 2 just ended - Tune into Part 2 tomorrow, 6:30 PM Eastern

More information available on ABC News http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=2674213&page=1

In love & vitality,
Alex
« Last Edit: November 27, 2006, 06:57:47 PM by allopathicholistic »

Offline J.R.E.

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  • Joined Dec-2003 Living positive, since 1985.
Re: Organic/"Natural Foods and CD4's?
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2006, 08:31:06 PM »
Alex,


Thanks for that. I read this post too late and missed the first part. Will catch part 2 tomorrow !




Thanks---------Ray
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

 As of 6/4/14,  t-cells are at 423, Viral load <40

 Current % is at 13% 

  
 62 years young.

SFscruff

  • Guest
Re: Organic/"Natural Foods and CD4's?
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2006, 03:00:18 PM »
I've been making a quart or more of yogurt at home in a little Dannon incubator for about 15 years. It's really fun to do -- heating up the milk in a water bath to 195 F for 15 min., letting it cool, adding a cup of starter from the last batch, stirring, smelling that good warm milk + culture smell, pouring it into the cups, snapping on the lids, putting them in the incubator, setting the timer for 10 hours, BEEP! BEEP! BEEP! and yogurt.  I've been using the same culture/starter 'mother' all this time.  The taste is incredible and there are no additives, sugar, etc. unless I stir something in after it's made. 

I also line a colander with a few layers of cheesecloth and put the yogurt in and set it over a container in the fridge and the next day the whey has drained out and the soft cheese is like cream cheese in consistency, but tastes fresh and not chalky. 

If I'm feeling really adventurous, I make fist sized balls of the soft yogurt cheese, add herbs from the garden, and wrap them in cheesecloth and tie them tightly with kitchen twine and stick them in a wooden box in the fridge with holes drilled in the lid and a few weeks later, it's about the consistency of a goat chevre (spellchecker just suggested the word 'chevy,' priceless), with a pleasingly complex flavor.

I'm going to get a bunch of lecturing replies to this which I don't really want to read, but I use unpasteurized milk from Strauss dairy in Marin County.  Yeah, there is a risk of all sorts of pathogens, but I've never had any GI problems ever.  I wouldn't recommend unpasteurized dairy products to anyone with a compromised immune system though, the risk is too great. My CD4 nadir was 12 in 1998, so I've had a very compromised immune system and didn't catch any critters from the unpasteurized products.  BUT DON'T USE UNPASTEURIZED DAIRY PRODUCTS YOURSELVES!  I'm so becoming my parents, 'Do as we say and not as we do!'

There are a number of 'foodies' in SF who hit the farmer's markets together, go on culinary adventures and share ideas and experiences.  One of us has an olive oil press -- delicious although so damned slow!  I make my own vinegars from cider too, that 'mother' is going on 20 years.

What's that Auntie Mame quote about life being a banquet...

SFscruff

 


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